Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - Re: Complaint (Barry Hancock)
2. 10:59 AM - Prop in Fine Pitch (Jim Bernier)
3. 12:32 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 12:57 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (Jim Bernier)
5. 01:09 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (Ernest Martinez)
6. 01:25 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 01:30 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 01:41 PM - Re: Prop in Fine Pitch (Jim Bernier)
9. 01:41 PM - Re: Prop in fine pitch (Cpayne)
10. 01:49 PM - Landing gear Rigging issues! Please read and respond. (Rutledge Wilson)
11. 02:00 PM - Re: Prop in fine pitch (Jim Bernier)
12. 03:09 PM - Looking for ViperDoc (Drew Blahnick)
13. 03:24 PM - Looking for Dave King (Drew Blahnick)
14. 03:28 PM - Looking for Terry Calloway (Drew Blahnick)
15. 09:06 PM - Re: Fw: 4 July (Roger Doc Kemp)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Jul 4, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> A complaint post from a moron, and the reply:
Just when "people" are a source of selfishness and discouragement, our
"real Americans" do us proud! It is no wonder we have the best
fighting force in the world, and that they do a warrior's job for
baby-sitter's wages. Our armed forces are one of our great (few?)
bastions of pride in this country. Frankly, I will always have regret
for not taking the opportunity to serve and be a part of such an
honorable institution.
Thanks for posting this, Jim.
Cheers,
Barry
Message 2
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| Subject: | Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will not go
into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground, doing a run-up,
it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the prop stays in fine
pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in the air for doing a run-up,
but the same results follow, fine pitch only while in the air. (Maybe I need
to put the gear down.) After landing it works again. After shutting the engine
down and the prop handle is in fine pitch, the blades can't be moved to course
pitch by moving the propeller counter weights. After moving the handle to
course pitch, I can move the counter balance weights, but with some difficulty.
Is this normal? I thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub,
but after taking it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks
at the hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could leave it on the ground, but
that takes all the fun out of flying.
Jim B.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Jim,
Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar, which
airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in the
hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on the
sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
> not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
> doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the
> prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
> the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch only
> while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
> works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in fine
> pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the propeller
> counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move the
> counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
> thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after taking
> it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
> hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
> weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
> leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
> Jim B.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Dennis,
I have a CJ with the standard 285 hp engine. You are absolutely right. The counter
weights are keyed at 25 degrees. I tried to set the prop blades at 16 degrees
( recommended). The engine was not able to reach 2350 rpm. Decreasing the
angle allow the engine to reach the required rpm. Climb performance is great.
But without the course pitch, my cruise suffers. Do you recommend returning to
16 degree and starting over?
The engines history shows that it has been sitting around for years. I repaired
two stuck valves and pulled one cylinder to check an air leak that was not coming
from the exhaust. I honed the cylinder and it now works fine. At this point
I may be getting the required torque that I need to turn a 16 degree prop.
May be worth a try.
I'm measuring 16 degrees at 1000 mm from hub center.
Jim
>>> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com 07/05/05 2:31 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Jim,
Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar, which
airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in the
hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on the
sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
> not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
> doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the
> prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
> the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch only
> while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
> works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in fine
> pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the propeller
> counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move the
> counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
> thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after taking
> it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
> hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
> weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
> leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
> Jim B.
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Your hub should not be full of oil. If it is you need to replace the
seals, and possibly the oil tube.
Ernie
On 7/5/05, Jim Bernier <JBernier@dart.org> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> Dennis,
> I have a CJ with the standard 285 hp engine. You are absolutely right. The counter
weights are keyed at 25 degrees. I tried to set the prop blades at 16 degrees
( recommended). The engine was not able to reach 2350 rpm. Decreasing the
angle allow the engine to reach the required rpm. Climb performance is great.
But without the course pitch, my cruise suffers. Do you recommend returning
to 16 degree and starting over?
> The engines history shows that it has been sitting around for years. I repaired
two stuck valves and pulled one cylinder to check an air leak that was not
coming from the exhaust. I honed the cylinder and it now works fine. At this point
I may be getting the required torque that I need to turn a 16 degree prop.
May be worth a try.
> I'm measuring 16 degrees at 1000 mm from hub center.
> Jim
>
> >>> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com 07/05/05 2:31 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Jim,
> Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar, which
> airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
> counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in the
> hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on the
> sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
> >
> > I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
> > not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
> > doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the
> > prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
> > the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch only
> > while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
> > works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in fine
> > pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the propeller
> > counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move the
> > counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
> > thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after taking
> > it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
> > hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
> > weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
> > leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
> > Jim B.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I would definitely set the blades to the recommended spec. and start from
there. Then check the prop governor fine pitch stop limit. See if you can
adjust the stop further out to gain RPM during T.O. What does the spec call
for with regard to RPM during run-up with the prop control moved to full
coarse pitch?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> Dennis,
> I have a CJ with the standard 285 hp engine. You are absolutely right. The
> counter weights are keyed at 25 degrees. I tried to set the prop blades at
> 16 degrees ( recommended). The engine was not able to reach 2350 rpm.
> Decreasing the angle allow the engine to reach the required rpm. Climb
> performance is great. But without the course pitch, my cruise suffers. Do
> you recommend returning to 16 degree and starting over?
> The engines history shows that it has been sitting around for years. I
> repaired two stuck valves and pulled one cylinder to check an air leak
> that was not coming from the exhaust. I honed the cylinder and it now
> works fine. At this point I may be getting the required torque that I need
> to turn a 16 degree prop. May be worth a try.
> I'm measuring 16 degrees at 1000 mm from hub center.
> Jim
>
>>>> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com 07/05/05 2:31 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Jim,
> Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar,
> which
> airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
> counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in
> the
> hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on
> the
> sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>>
>> I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
>> not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
>> doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the
>> prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
>> the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch only
>> while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
>> works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in
>> fine
>> pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the propeller
>> counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move the
>> counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
>> thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after
>> taking
>> it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
>> hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
>> weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
>> leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
>> Jim B.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Ernie is right. No oil whatsoever in the hub. Oil in the piston assembly
only.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Your hub should not be full of oil. If it is you need to replace the
> seals, and possibly the oil tube.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 7/5/05, Jim Bernier <JBernier@dart.org> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>>
>> Dennis,
>> I have a CJ with the standard 285 hp engine. You are absolutely right.
>> The counter weights are keyed at 25 degrees. I tried to set the prop
>> blades at 16 degrees ( recommended). The engine was not able to reach
>> 2350 rpm. Decreasing the angle allow the engine to reach the required
>> rpm. Climb performance is great. But without the course pitch, my cruise
>> suffers. Do you recommend returning to 16 degree and starting over?
>> The engines history shows that it has been sitting around for years. I
>> repaired two stuck valves and pulled one cylinder to check an air leak
>> that was not coming from the exhaust. I honed the cylinder and it now
>> works fine. At this point I may be getting the required torque that I
>> need to turn a 16 degree prop. May be worth a try.
>> I'm measuring 16 degrees at 1000 mm from hub center.
>> Jim
>>
>> >>> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com 07/05/05 2:31 PM >>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> Jim,
>> Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar,
>> which
>> airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
>> counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in
>> the
>> hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on
>> the
>> sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>> >
>> > I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
>> > not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
>> > doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air
>> > the
>> > prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
>> > the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch
>> > only
>> > while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
>> > works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in
>> > fine
>> > pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the
>> > propeller
>> > counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move
>> > the
>> > counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
>> > thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after
>> > taking
>> > it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
>> > hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
>> > weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
>> > leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
>> > Jim B.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in Fine Pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
I stand corrected. The area between the hub piston and the hub piston dome is filled
with oil.
>>> erniel29@gmail.com 07/05/05 3:09 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Your hub should not be full of oil. If it is you need to replace the
seals, and possibly the oil tube.
Ernie
On 7/5/05, Jim Bernier <JBernier@dart.org> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> Dennis,
> I have a CJ with the standard 285 hp engine. You are absolutely right. The counter
weights are keyed at 25 degrees. I tried to set the prop blades at 16 degrees
( recommended). The engine was not able to reach 2350 rpm. Decreasing the
angle allow the engine to reach the required rpm. Climb performance is great.
But without the course pitch, my cruise suffers. Do you recommend returning
to 16 degree and starting over?
> The engines history shows that it has been sitting around for years. I repaired
two stuck valves and pulled one cylinder to check an air leak that was not
coming from the exhaust. I honed the cylinder and it now works fine. At this point
I may be getting the required torque that I need to turn a 16 degree prop.
May be worth a try.
> I'm measuring 16 degrees at 1000 mm from hub center.
> Jim
>
> >>> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com 07/05/05 2:31 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Jim,
> Although the standard prop hubs on the CJ6 and Yak52 are very similar, which
> airplane/engine do you have? You should not be able to move the
> counterweights by hand from fine to course pitch anytime there is oil in the
> hub piston assembly. The counterweights have a fixed/keyed position on the
> sleeve. Have you properly set your blade angles?
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Prop in Fine Pitch
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
> >
> > I have a little problem that someone may be familiar with. My prop will
> > not go into course pitch while flying. Any time that I'm on the ground,
> > doing a run-up, it works just fine, hot or cold. Once I'm in the air the
> > prop stays in fine pitch. I've tried to simulate the same conditions in
> > the air for doing a run-up, but the same results follow, fine pitch only
> > while in the air. (Maybe I need to put the gear down.) After landing it
> > works again. After shutting the engine down and the prop handle is in fine
> > pitch, the blades can't be moved to course pitch by moving the propeller
> > counter weights. After moving the handle to course pitch, I can move the
> > counter balance weights, but with some difficulty. Is this normal? I
> > thought at one time that the prop was binding in the hub, but after taking
> > it apart several times I find no problem. There are no oil leaks at the
> > hub. The hub is full of oil when I remove the prop piston. The counter
> > weights are set at 25 degrees. I guess I could !
> > leave it on the ground, but that takes all the fun out of flying.
> > Jim B.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in fine pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Works on the ground but not in the air...so what's different? The air load perhaps.
Try what Dennis suggested and remove the dome and move the counterweights
by hand. They should move but not be really stiff; worse yet is loose and sloppy.
My guess, the hub is real stiff and needs to be disassembled, bearings rinsed
with mineral spirits and re-greased. Also check the pitch sliders for any
scratches or abnormal wear.
Craig Payne
Message 10
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| Subject: | Landing gear Rigging issues! Please read and respond. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rutledge Wilson" <tryon@aviator.org>
I wanted to make a post about this because it is sort of a grey area,
where our limited tech data is concerned. Also as I have discovered with
the CJ, it is a realativly simply designed gear, but not forgiving to
incorrect rigging , adjustment of the rod ends, or the internal locks of
the actuators. It is all critical adjustments!=20=20
As a past post stated, we found a cracked actuator shaft with one main
gear actuator, during O/H.. I concluded it was from the shaft flexing
due to the internal lock adjustment being too loose/worn.. However, the
gear rig/stress could have played a factor also? I'm not really sure..
So the issue is "What is the correct method for rigging the rod end of
the actuator, in relation to the drag brace being down and locked?" The
books I have give a procdure, but like most things here it is realtivly
hard to duplicate the exact situation the book calls out..
The only procedure I can find in the book say's , " 25 ATM on the gauge,
gear handle down. Then apply 250 lbs "up" force (against the actuator) on
the center of the drag brace, then to have a clearance of .002-.006
between the contact center contact surface of the drag brace.. Ahhh yea,
right.. how you going to eactly measure that???=20
My judgement and solution was this:
You want to know the actuator is "fully locked" / and the drag brace is
over center and locked.. but you must be careful to make sure it not too
tight..
Too tight's the actuator won't lock, and will induce stress on the
actuator from high pressure. Too loose your drag links could have
movment, wearing the bolts out and hammering the actuator and mounts.
,,,, especially on the nose gear joints.
My improvised procedure....
Working one gear at a time, while on jacks. I put shop air on the
actuator with a made up hose. Est. 130psi. and adjusted the rod end of
the actuator until the drag brack was just over center and locked.
(touching, but not too tight). The shop air holds the actuator fully
"locked" but you can still push back against the air presure to check the
locks and the drag brace. You can also turn the rod end with a skinny
wrench with air pressure applied to make minor adjustments. (less than
1/2 turn). Then I double checked it with the 25ATM, and pushing up one
the drag link by hand. Pushing quite hard, I could sitll move it, but
not push it over center. I figure this was a good rig procedure and
wanted to share, it and gather opinions from others. ..
Any replies welcomed,,
R. Wilson. A&P..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yak-List Digest Server"
To: "Yak-List Digest List"
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/04/05
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 23:58:22 -0700
>
> *
>
>
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list/Digest.Yak-List.2005-07-04.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
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>
>
>
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
>
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 07/04/05: 7
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:08 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (st.ellison@comcast.net)
> 2. 08:44 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (Walter Lannon)
> 3. 08:58 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (Doug Sapp)
> 4. 09:03 AM - Fw: 4 July (AEROSTAR)
> 5. 04:20 PM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (A. Dennis Savarese)
> 6. 05:09 PM - [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint (Jim Ivey)
> 7. 07:13 PM - Yak and CJs (Gilles St-Pierre)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:08:55 AM PST US
> From: st.ellison@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> Pappy:
>
> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think
you are
> correct
> in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear
> actuator.
> Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having a
leaking
> o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50
> psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even
> with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not lock the
unit into that
> extended position. I am pretty new to this but from what I recall
on another
> cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little pressure as
long as the
> actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble (in good
concience where
> my insurance company is concerned) putting this unit back in when
something
> just
> doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is normal to take such a
large pressure
> differential between extension of the actuator and locking the
balls in place?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Steve
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message
dated
> > 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net You you
guys give me
> > a specific range on the minumum air pressure that should be
required to
> > extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on the
>
> > bench? Steve You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum
air
> > pressure that should be required to extend and lock a nose gear
actuator
> > from a Yak-52 on the
>
> > bench? Steve Steve, I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to
the same
> > system setup it's a "minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear
retraction. That's
> > 25 x 14.5 362.5 lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight
attached. The
> > actuator will move with less than that with no load. Correct me
someone if
> > I'm wrong. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> Pappy:
>
> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think
you are
> correct
> in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear
> actuator.
> Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having a
leaking
> o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50
> psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even
> with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not lock the
unit into that
> extended position. I am pretty new to this but from what I recall
on another
> cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little pressure as
long as the
> actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble (in good
concience where
> my insurance company is concerned) putting this unit back in when
something
> just
> doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is normal to take such a
large pressure
> differential between extension of the actuator and locking the
balls in place?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Steve
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
>
> -- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> the
>
> bench?
>
> Steve
>
> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> the
>
> bench?
>
> Steve
>
>
> Steve,
> I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup
it's a
> "minimum" of 25 atmospheres
> for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
> lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> with less than that with no load.
>
> Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:44:47 AM PST US
> From: "Walter Lannon"
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon"
>
> Steve;
>
> You do have a problem. The ball lock should engage and disengage
reliably
> with shop air pressure (100 psi or less).
> I would absolutely expect it to do this at 50 psi or less.
> The ball lock may be incorrectly assembled.
>
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >
> > Pappy:
> >
> > Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I
think you are
> > correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on
the nose
> > gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back
from having
> > a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only
> > about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended
> > position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not
> > lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to
this but from
> > what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little
> > pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble
> > (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned)
putting this
> > unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you
think it is
> > normal to take such a large pressure differential between
extension of the
> > actuator and locking the balls in place?
> >
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >>
> >> In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >>
> >> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52 on
> >> the
> >> bench?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52 on
> >> the
> >> bench?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >> I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system
setup it's a
> >> "minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x
14.5 362.5
> >> lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> >> with less than that with no load.
> >>
> >> Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
> >>
> >> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Pappy:
> >
> > Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I
think you are
> > correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on
the nose
> > gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back
from having
> > a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only
> > about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended
> > position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not
> > lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to
this but from
> > what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little
> > pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble
> > (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned)
putting this
> > unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you
think it is
> > normal to take such a large pressure differential between
extension of the
> > actuator and locking the balls in place?
> >
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -------------- Original message -------------- -- Yak-List
message posted
> > by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> >
> > -- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >
> > You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> > should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> > the
> > bench?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> > should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> > the
> > bench?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> > I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system
setup it's a
> > "minimum" of 25 atmospheres
> > for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
> > lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> > with less than that with no load.
> >
> > Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
> >
> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:58:38 AM PST US
> From: "Doug Sapp"
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp"
>
> Steve,
> If the actuator does not lock properly check out the overhaul spec
in your
> PT Trainer Aircraft Overhaul Manual for Airframe Accessories, see
pages 5-1
> thru 5-7 for the disassembly, overhaul, adjustment and reassembly.
Also, in
> the Chujiao-6 Airplane Tech Spec For Service and Maint. manual on
pages
> 67,68,69 here is a detailed description of how the ball lock
functions.
>
> One caution: Many guys want to paint the actuators before
reinstalling them
> in the aircraft, this is a great idea to prevent rust and
corrosion, but DO
> NOT get paint on the shaft, tape off 100% 0f its travel length. Of
the last
> 6 actuators that I disassembled for overhaul(yes we have all the
parts in
> stock)I found that the main reason for the failure was that paint
had packed
> up in the first set of 0 rings causing them to become slightly
displaced,
> when the actuator was next used the 0 rings were cut or dislodged
> completely. Also, as previously posted, we have been finding
actuators that
> have been adjusted improperly (internally), causing cracks in the
shaft and
> end cap stops to be nearly beaten flat. There is tremendous strain
on the
> actuators, if they are bottoming out internally it is a potential
problem,
> something has to give.
>
> Best from here.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> st.ellison@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> Pappy:
>
> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think
you are
> correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on
the nose
> gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back
from having
> a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only
> about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended
> position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not
> lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this
but from
> what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little
> pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble
> (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting
this
> unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think
it is
> normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension
of the
> actuator and locking the balls in place?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Steve
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >
> > You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> > should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52
> on the
> > bench?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> > should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52
> on the
> > bench?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> > I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system
setup it's a
> > "minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5
362.5
> > lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> > with less than that with no load.
> >
> > Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
> >
> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >
> >
>
> Pappy:
>
> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think
you are
> correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on
the nose
> gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back
from having
> a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only
> about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended
> position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not
> lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this
but from
> what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little
> pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble
> (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting
this
> unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think
it is
> normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension
of the
> actuator and locking the balls in place?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Steve
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
>
> -- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> the
> bench?
>
> Steve
>
> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure
that
> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a
Yak-52 on
> the
> bench?
>
> Steve
>
>
> Steve,
> I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup
it's a
> "minimum" of 25 atmospheres
> for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
> lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> with less than that with no load.
>
> Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:03:50 AM PST US
> From: "AEROSTAR"
> Subject: Yak-List: Fw: 4 July
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "AEROSTAR"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MARKETING"
> Subject: 4 July
>
>
> > Dear Gentlemen ,
> >
> > Best wishes from Aerostar - Romania to all our American friends ,
all
> the
> > best and a happy " 4 July " celebration Holliday .
> > Sincerely ,
> >
> > Cristian Dragoi
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:20:46 PM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
> I concur 100% with Walt's assessment. An overhauled/new Yak 52
actuator
> will fully engage (lock into position) and disengage with less than
100 psi.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Lannon"
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon"
> >
> > Steve;
> >
> > You do have a problem. The ball lock should engage and disengage
reliably
> > with shop air pressure (100 psi or less).
> > I would absolutely expect it to do this at 50 psi or less.
> > The ball lock may be incorrectly assembled.
> >
> > Walt
> > ----- Original Message ----- From:
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
> >
> >
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >>
> >> Pappy:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I
think you
> >> are correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same
setup on the
> >> nose gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator
back from
> >> having a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the
cylinder it
> >> takes only about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to
the fully
> >> extended position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi
the balls
> >> do not lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty
new to this
> >> but from what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock
in" with
> >> very little pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended.
I'm just
> >> having trouble (in good concience where my insurance company is
concerned)
> >> putting this unit back in when something just doesn't "feel"
right. Do you
> >> think it is normal to take such a large pressure differential
between
> >> extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comments.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> -------------- Original message --------------
> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>> st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> >>>
> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >>>
> >>> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >>> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52
> >>> on the
> >>> bench?
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >>> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52
> >>> on the
> >>> bench?
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Steve,
> >>> I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system
setup it's a
> >>> "minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x
14.5 362.5
> >>> lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> >>> with less than that with no load.
> >>>
> >>> Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
> >>>
> >>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Pappy:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I
think you
> >> are correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same
setup on the
> >> nose gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator
back from
> >> having a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the
cylinder it
> >> takes only about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to
the fully
> >> extended position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi
the balls
> >> do not lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty
new to this
> >> but from what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock
in" with
> >> very little pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended.
I'm just
> >> having trouble (in good concience where my insurance company is
concerned)
> >> putting this unit back in when something just doesn't "feel"
right. Do you
> >> think it is normal to take such a large pressure differential
between
> >> extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comments.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> -------------- Original message -------------- -- Yak-List
message posted
> >> by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >>
> >> In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
> >>
> >> -- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
> >>
> >> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52
> >> on the
> >> bench?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that
> >> should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from
a Yak-52
> >> on the
> >> bench?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >> I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system
setup it's a
> >> "minimum" of 25 atmospheres
> >> for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
> >> lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator
will move
> >> with less than that with no load.
> >>
> >> Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
> >>
> >> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:09:04 PM PST US
> From: Jim Ivey
> Subject: Yak-List: [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from 2dale@dakotacom.net -----
> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:47:02 -0700
> From: Dale Adams <2dale@dakotacom.net>
> Subject: [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint
> To: Luscombe Yahoo
>
>
> A complaint post from a moron, and the reply:
>
> Complaint:
>
> Quote:
> A wake-up call from Luke's jets
>
> Jun. 23, 2005 12:00 AM
>
> "Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for
the
> morning air show?
>
> Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 a.m., a tight formation of four
F-16
> jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell
Road
> at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune!
>
> Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were
they
> trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns' early-bird special?
>
> Any response would be appreciated."
>
>
> The reply is classic, and a testament to the professionalism and
heroism
> of the folks in the armed services. The response:
>
> Quote:
>
> Regarding "A wake-up call from Luke's jets" (Letters, Thursday):
>
> On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four-ship of
F-16s
> from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the
> grave of Capt Jeremy Fresques.
>
> Capt. Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously
stationed at
> Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day.
>
> At 9 a.m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland
> Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and
friend.
>
> Based on the letter writer's recount of the flyby, and because of
the
> jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing
of
> taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I
gave
> them their son's flag on behalf of the president of the United
States
> and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the
> sacrifices they have endured.
>
> A four-ship flyby is a display of respect the Air Force pays to
those
> who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional
aviators
> and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer
> witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate
respects.
>
> The letter writer asks, "Whom do we thank for the morning air
show?"
>
> The 56th Fighter Wing will call for you, and forward your thanks to
the
> widow and parents of Capt. Fresques, and thank them for you, for it
was
> in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of
their
> lives.
>
> Lt. Col. Scott Pleus
> CO 63rd Fighter Squadron
> Luke Air Force Base
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:13:37 PM PST US
> From: "Gilles St-Pierre"
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak and CJs
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gilles St-Pierre"
>
>
> to those who have been kind enough to give me the infos on their`(
for sale
> planes)
>
> i have inadvertedly erased my messages, sorry if you did not get a
reply
> sincerely
> dr gilles st pierre
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I wanted to make a post about this because it is sort of a grey area, where our
limited tech data is concerned.Also as I have discovered with the CJ, it is a
realativly simply designed gear, but not forgiving to incorrect rigging , adjustment
of the rod ends, or the internal locks of the actuators. It is all critical
adjustments!
As a past post stated, we found a cracked actuator shaft with one main gear actuator,
during O/H.. I concluded it was from the shaft flexing due to the internal
lock adjustment being too loose/worn..However, the gear rig/stress could have
played a factor also? I'm not really sure..
So the issue is "What is the correct method for rigging the rod end of the actuator,
in relation to the drag brace being down and locked?" The books I have give
a procdure, but like most things here it is realtivly hard to duplicate the
exact situation the book calls out..
The only procedure I can find in the book say's , " 25 ATM on the gauge, gear handle
down. Then apply 250 lbs "up" force (against the actuator)on the center
of the drag brace, then to have a clearance of .002-.006 between the contact center
contact surface of the drag brace..Ahhh yea, right.. how you going to eactly
measure that???
My judgement and solution was this:
You want to know the actuator is "fully locked" / and the drag brace is over center
and locked.. but you must be careful to make sure it not too tight..
Too tight's the actuator won't lock, and will induce stress on the actuator from
high pressure. Too loose your drag links could have movment, wearing the bolts
out and hammering the actuator and mounts. ,,,, especially on the nose gear
joints.
My improvised procedure....
Working one gear at a time, while on jacks. I put shop air on the actuator with
a made up hose. Est. 130psi. and adjusted the rod end of the actuator until the
drag brackwas just over center and locked. (touching, but not tootight). Theshop
air holds the actuator fully "locked" but you can still pushback against
the air presure to check the locks and the drag brace. You can also turn the
rod end with a skinny wrench with air pressure applied tomake minor adjustments.
(less than 1/2 turn).Then I double checked it with the 25ATM, and pushing upone
the drag link by hand.Pushing quite hard, I could sitllmove it, but not push
it overcenter. Ifigure this was a good rig procedure and wanted to share,
it and gather opinions from others. ..
Any replies welcomed,,
R. Wilson. AP..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yak-List Digest Server" <YAK-LIST-DIGEST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/04/05
*
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---
Total Messages Posted Mon 07/04/05: 7
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (st.ellison@comcast.net)
2. 08:44 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (Walter Lannon)
3. 08:58 AM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (Doug Sapp)
4. 09:03 AM - Fw: 4 July (AEROSTAR)
5. 04:20 PM - Re: Nose actuator pressure (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 05:09 PM - [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint (Jim Ivey)
7. 07:13 PM - Yak and CJs (Gilles St-Pierre)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 08:08:55 AM PST US
From: st.ellison@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct
in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose gear
actuator.
Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having a leaking
o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only about 40-50
psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended position but even
with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not lock the unit into that
extended position. I am pretty new to this but from what I recall on another
cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little pressure as long as the
actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble (in good concience where
my insurance company is concerned) putting this unit back in when something
just
doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is normal to take such a large pressure
differential between extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message dated
7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net You you guys give me
a specific range on the minumum air pressure that should be required to
extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on the
bench? Steve You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air
pressure that should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator
from a Yak-52 on the
bench? Steve Steve, I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same
system setup it's a "minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's
25 x 14.5 362.5 lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The
actuator will move with less than that with no load. Correct me someone if
I'm wrong. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct
in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose gear
actuator.
Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having a leaking
o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only about 40-50
psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended position but even
with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not lock the unit into that
extended position. I am pretty new to this but from what I recall on another
cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little pressure as long as the
actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble (in good concience where
my insurance company is concerned) putting this unit back in when something
just
doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is normal to take such a large pressure
differential between extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres
for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 08:44:47 AM PST US
From: "Walter Lannon" <WLANNON@CABLEROCKET.COM>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <WLANNON@CABLEROCKET.COM>
Steve;
You do have a problem. The ball lock should engage and disengage reliably
with shop air pressure (100 psi or less).
I would absolutely expect it to do this at 50 psi or less.
The ball lock may be incorrectly assembled.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <ST.ELLISON@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having
a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not
lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this but from
what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little
pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble
(in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting this
unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is
normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension of the
actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having
a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not
lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this but from
what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little
pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble
(in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting this
unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is
normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension of the
actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message -------------- -- Yak-List message posted
by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres
for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 08:58:38 AM PST US
From: "Doug Sapp" <RVFLTD@TELEVAR.COM>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <RVFLTD@TELEVAR.COM>
Steve,
If the actuator does not lock properly check out the overhaul spec in your
PT Trainer Aircraft Overhaul Manual for Airframe Accessories, see pages 5-1
thru 5-7 for the disassembly, overhaul, adjustment and reassembly. Also, in
the Chujiao-6 Airplane Tech Spec For Service and Maint. manual on pages
67,68,69 here is a detailed description of how the ball lock functions.
One caution: Many guys want to paint the actuators before reinstalling them
in the aircraft, this is a great idea to prevent rust and corrosion, but DO
NOT get paint on the shaft, tape off 100% 0f its travel length. Of the last
6 actuators that I disassembled for overhaul(yes we have all the parts in
stock)I found that the main reason for the failure was that paint had packed
up in the first set of 0 rings causing them to become slightly displaced,
when the actuator was next used the 0 rings were cut or dislodged
completely. Also, as previously posted, we have been finding actuators that
have been adjusted improperly (internally), causing cracks in the shaft and
end cap stops to be nearly beaten flat. There is tremendous strain on the
actuators, if they are bottoming out internally it is a potential problem,
something has to give.
Best from here.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
st.ellison@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having
a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not
lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this but from
what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little
pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble
(in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting this
unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is
normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension of the
actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you are
correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the nose
gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from having
a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it takes only
about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully extended
position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls do not
lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this but from
what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with very little
pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just having trouble
(in good concience where my insurance company is concerned) putting this
unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you think it is
normal to take such a large pressure differential between extension of the
actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52 on
the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres
for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:03:50 AM PST US
From: "AEROSTAR" <AEROSTAR@AEROSTAR.RO>
Subject: Yak-List: Fw: 4 July
-- Yak-List message posted by: "AEROSTAR" <AEROSTAR@AEROSTAR.RO>
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARKETING" <MARKETING@AEROSTAR.RO>
Subject: 4 July
Dear Gentlemen ,
Best wishes from Aerostar - Romania to all our American friends , all
the
best and a happy " 4 July " celebration Holliday .
Sincerely ,
Cristian Dragoi
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 04:20:46 PM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
I concur 100% with Walt's assessment. An overhauled/new Yak 52 actuator
will fully engage (lock into position) and disengage with less than 100 psi.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Lannon" <WLANNON@CABLEROCKET.COM>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <WLANNON@CABLEROCKET.COM>
Steve;
You do have a problem. The ball lock should engage and disengage reliably
with shop air pressure (100 psi or less).
I would absolutely expect it to do this at 50 psi or less.
The ball lock may be incorrectly assembled.
Walt
----- Original Message ----- From: <ST.ELLISON@COMCAST.NET>
To: <YAK-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nose actuator pressure
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you
are correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the
nose gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from
having a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this
but from what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned)
putting this unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you
think it is normal to take such a large pressure differential between
extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Pappy:
Thanks for the comments on the actuator operating pressure. I think you
are correct in that both the Yak and CJ use nearly the same setup on the
nose gear actuator. Here is my concern, I just got the acutator back from
having a leaking o-ring changed and when I apply air to the cylinder it
takes only about 40-50 psi (maybe less) to extend the pushrod to the fully
extended position but even with the pressure going up to 240 psi the balls
do not lock the unit into that extended position. I am pretty new to this
but from what I recall on another cylinder the balls would "lock in" with
very little pressure as long as the actuator was fully extended. I'm just
having trouble (in good concience where my insurance company is concerned)
putting this unit back in when something just doesn't "feel" right. Do you
think it is normal to take such a large pressure differential between
extension of the actuator and locking the balls in place?
Thanks for your comments.
Steve
-------------- Original message -------------- -- Yak-List message posted
by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2005 1:52:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
st.ellison@comcast.net writes:
-- Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
You you guys give me a specific range on the minumum air pressure that
should be required to extend and lock a nose gear actuator from a Yak-52
on the
bench?
Steve
Steve,
I know on the CJ-6 which has fairly close to the same system setup it's a
"minimum" of 25 atmospheres
for gear retraction. That's 25 x 14.5 362.5
lbs/sq. in. Now that is with gear weight attached. The actuator will move
with less than that with no load.
Correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 05:09:04 PM PST US
From: Jim Ivey <JIM@JIMIVEY.COM>
Subject: Yak-List: [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint
-- Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <JIM@JIMIVEY.COM>
----- Forwarded message from 2dale@dakotacom.net -----
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:47:02 -0700
From: Dale Adams 2dale@dakotacom.net
Subject: [luscombe-silvaire] Fw: Complaint
To: Luscombe Yahoo <LUSCOMBE-SILVAIRE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
A complaint post from a moron, and the reply:
Complaint:
Quote:
A wake-up call from Luke's jets
Jun. 23, 2005 12:00 AM
"Question of the day for Luke Air Force Base: Whom do we thank for the
morning air show?
Last Wednesday, at precisely 9:11 a.m., a tight formation of four F-16
jets made a low pass over Arrowhead Mall, continuing west over Bell Road
at approximately 500 feet. Imagine our good fortune!
Do the Tom Cruise-wannabes feel we need this wake-up call, or were they
trying to impress the cashiers at Mervyns' early-bird special?
Any response would be appreciated."
The reply is classic, and a testament to the professionalism and heroism
of the folks in the armed services. The response:
Quote:
Regarding "A wake-up call from Luke's jets" (Letters, Thursday):
On June 15, at precisely 9:12 a.m., a perfectly timed four-ship of F-16s
from the 63rd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base flew over the
grave of Capt Jeremy Fresques.
Capt. Fresques was an Air Force officer who was previously stationed at
Luke Air Force Base and was killed in Iraq on May 30, Memorial Day.
At 9 a.m. on June 15, his family and friends gathered at Sunland
Memorial Park in Sun City to mourn the loss of a husband, son and friend.
Based on the letter writer's recount of the flyby, and because of the
jet noise, I'm sure you didn't hear the 21-gun salute, the playing of
taps, or my words to the widow and parents of Capt. Fresques as I gave
them their son's flag on behalf of the president of the United States
and all those veterans and servicemen and women who understand the
sacrifices they have endured.
A four-ship flyby is a display of respect the Air Force pays to those
who give their lives in defense of freedom. We are professional aviators
and take our jobs seriously, and on June 15 what the letter writer
witnessed was four officers lining up to pay their ultimate respects.
The letter writer asks, "Whom do we thank for the morning air show?"
The 56th Fighter Wing will call for you, and forward your thanks to the
widow and parents of Capt. Fresques, and thank them for you, for it was
in their honor that my pilots flew the most honorable formation of their
lives.
Lt. Col. Scott Pleus
CO 63rd Fighter Squadron
Luke Air Force Base
----- End forwarded message -----
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 07:13:37 PM PST US
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <RANCHLASEIGNEURIE@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak and CJs
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Gilles St-Pierre"
<RANCHLASEIGNEURIE@HOTMAIL.COM>
to those who have been kind enough to give me the infos on their`( for sale
planes)
i have inadvertedly erased my messages, sorry if you did not get a reply
sincerely
dr gilles st pierre
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Prop in fine pitch |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Craig,
I removed the oil by hand, forcing the counter weights out. Once this was accomplished
the blades moved free and smooth. But you're right, the only forces working
would be the counter weights working against the air load and oil pressure.
Anything else?
Jim B
>>> cpayne@joimail.com 07/05/05 3:41 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Works on the ground but not in the air...so what's different? The air load perhaps.
Try what Dennis suggested and remove the dome and move the counterweights
by hand. They should move but not be really stiff; worse yet is loose and sloppy.
My guess, the hub is real stiff and needs to be disassembled, bearings rinsed
with mineral spirits and re-greased. Also check the pitch sliders for any
scratches or abnormal wear.
Craig Payne
Message 12
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| Subject: | Looking for ViperDoc |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Hey ViperDoc, email me off list, we need info on you for the RPA, you've been promoted!
;)
Email asap if you would, thanks,
Drew
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 13
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| Subject: | Looking for Dave King |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Dave King,
No, you can't have my girlfriend this time, but I do need you to contact me off
list about the RPA!
Soon as you get a chance, thanks
Drew
lacloudchaser@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 14
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| Subject: | Looking for Terry Calloway |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Terry,
Can you contact me off list, we need some info on you!
Thanks!
Drew
lacloudchaser@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Mr. Dragoi,
Thank you from one US citizen and I am sure I speak for all the others.
Doc Kemp
> [Original Message]
> From: AEROSTAR <aerostar@aerostar.ro>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 7/4/2005 11:03:28 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Fw: 4 July
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "AEROSTAR" <aerostar@aerostar.ro>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MARKETING" <marketing@aerostar.ro>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: 4 July
>
>
> > Dear Gentlemen ,
> >
> > Best wishes from Aerostar - Romania to all our American friends , all
> the
> > best and a happy " 4 July " celebration Holliday .
> > Sincerely ,
> >
> > Cristian Dragoi
> >
> >
>
>
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