Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: Rodger's Tribute (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 06:44 AM - Cj improvements (MFilucci@aol.com)
4. 07:03 AM - Correction (Barry Hancock)
5. 08:16 AM - Re: Cj improvements (Walter Lannon)
6. 10:04 AM - Missing Man Formation (Aviatr@aol.com)
7. 10:25 AM - Re: Cj improvements (Brian Lloyd)
8. 10:51 AM - Re: Missing Man Formation (KILOUSMC@aol.com)
9. 11:14 AM - Re: Correction (Roger Doc Kemp)
10. 11:17 AM - Re: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? (Roger Doc Kemp)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: Correction (Brian Lloyd)
12. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? (Brian Lloyd)
13. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? (Roger Doc Kemp)
14. 02:55 PM - Re: Cj improvements (Doug Sapp)
15. 04:13 PM - Re: Cj improvements (E R)
16. 04:26 PM - Re: Home Again (Cpayne)
17. 08:23 PM - Re: CJ Improvements (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Yak-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
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-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rodger's Tribute |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/28/2005 1:00:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tcalloway@datatechnique.com writes:
Just viewed the tribute you did for Roger for the 5th time. It was very
nice. I feel that not going to Ava was not my best moment. Somehow some one
needed to shepherd the others who stayed. There was no one the EAA folk knew.
With Dick James going straight in, they were pretty upset. Not a good week
for anyone.
Jim
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
<tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Dear Friends,
Today, in Tulsa, Oklahoma we celebrated the life of Rodger Modglin. My
friend.
If you have not already, please take a moment to visit our website and
view the tribute to Rodger at www.teamredwarbirds.com . You can view the
video tribute by clicking on the cover photo.
Also, please take a moment to sign the guestbook, the family is reading
the comments from visitors and it is really helping them get through
these tough times. Thank you so much if you have already done so.
We will celebrate a final time in Ava, IL on Saturday July 30 at 3:00
PM. A number of our fellow friends and aviators have expressed an
interest in attending. RPA friends will fly the missing man formation.
The details are that all will be flying into Carbondale/Murphysboro,
KMDH. We are making arrangements for rooms and transportation for many,
so if you need assistance, feel free to call Zoe at 620-235-1000.
Pilots will celebrate Rodger's life at the services wearing their
flight suits, as is Rodger.
Saturday evening plans are still being firmed, but please plan to
attend if you can.
Godspeed,
Terry "Pumper" Calloway
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 8/1/05 10:19:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
barry@flyredstar.org writes:
On that note, Worldwide Warbirds, Inc. is teaming with Doug Sapp to
provide what are certainly the most well appointed CJ's to hit the US
market. Some of the highlights on the aircraft include:
Barry,
Sounds like a great plan. You may want to reconsider the metal control
surfaces--there have been some issues with some of the Yak-52s that have gone
from
fabric to metal. I know Harry Dutson has had his aircraft grounded several
times for the repair of stress cracks in his rudder. He's decided to go back
to fabric. Just a "heads up."
Regards,
Mike
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> The PK of the ground is still one! The best we will ever be able to do
> is
> equal it.
Doc, I have to correct you on this one. At last calculation, the PK
of the ground is actually at .9987....I can think of 2 MiG pilots and
one Hornet driver that will attest to that... ;)-
Barry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cj improvements |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Mike;
Wholeheartedly agree with you regarding metalizing of CJ control surfaces.
To do so would be a mistake of possibly major consequences for a host of
reasons.
These aircraft may be experimental in the US but surely there should be some
responsibility on the part of the owners to avoid unapproved modifications
that could result in the grounding of all.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: <MFilucci@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Cj improvements
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 8/1/05 10:19:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> barry@flyredstar.org writes:
>
> On that note, Worldwide Warbirds, Inc. is teaming with Doug Sapp to
> provide what are certainly the most well appointed CJ's to hit the US
> market. Some of the highlights on the aircraft include:
>
>
> Barry,
>
> Sounds like a great plan. You may want to reconsider the metal control
> surfaces--there have been some issues with some of the Yak-52s that have
> gone from
> fabric to metal. I know Harry Dutson has had his aircraft grounded
> several
> times for the repair of stress cracks in his rudder. He's decided to go
> back
> to fabric. Just a "heads up."
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Missing Man Formation |
tcalloway@datatechnique.com.p2driver@earthlink.net, MFilucci@aol.com,
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net, KILOUSMC@aol.com
--> Yak-List message posted by: Aviatr@aol.com
To the Red Star Pilot's Association Members:
It was one of the greatest honors of my life to have led the missing man
formation in Ava, Illinois on Saturday. I could have counted on any one of you
to do a fine job but I couldn't have asked for 5 better pilots to accompany me
on Rodger's last flight. I wanted to thank each of them personally for their
professionalism, their sacrifice of time and money and their friendship.
When I go West I can only hope they will honor me in the same way.
I know you are all looking for photo's. Many were taken on the ground and in
the air but I do not yet have any copies to post. They will be online soon.
We flew a six ship wedge shaped formation with myself in the lead.
# 2 Skip "Ranger" Slyfield CJ-6A On My Right Wing
# 3 Keith "Flipper" Harbour CJ-6A "The Missing Man"
# 4 Al "DaBear" Devere CJ-6A The Slot
# 5 Joe "Felix" Wilkins Yak-52 Left Wing
# 6 Roy "Popeye" Murray Yak-52 Right Wing
Thank you all. I hope you will always remember this flight as one of the
proudest moments in your life. Bravo
I would be remiss if I did not also mention our Marine Recon Officer on the
ground,
Bob "Kilo" Watts, who helped get us on target at the correct time. Thanks
Kilo.
We also had the support of several fellow RPA members at the grave site.
Special thanks to
Mike "Blade" Filucci.
Drew "Chunks" Blanick
Jeff "I. V." Linebaugh (Jeff will need to explain the new call sign)
And of Course Terry "Pumper" Calloway
"With Friends Like You I Will Never Have Enemies"
With Pride,
Scott "KONG" McMillan
_aviatr@aol.com_ (mailto:aviatr@aol.com)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cj improvements |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
MFilucci@aol.com wrote:
> You may want to reconsider the metal control
> surfaces--there have been some issues with some of the Yak-52s that have gone
from
> fabric to metal. I know Harry Dutson has had his aircraft grounded several
> times for the repair of stress cracks in his rudder. He's decided to go back
> to fabric. Just a "heads up."
I agree with Mike 100%. When you convert to metal surfaces you increase mass
by a whole bunch (standard English bunch, not standard metric bunch -- use
'shitloads' if you want to work it out in the metric system). That reduces
flutter margin. Since none of us are aeronautical engineers and we don't have
a standard flight-test program in place, we can't really determine just how
much flutter margin is reduced. Flutter could ruin your whole day.
Has anyone looked at what a fully developed flutter incident looks like? It is
often accompanied by the total destruction of the airframe too rapidly for the
pilot to react and therefore much too rapidly for the pilot to escape. And it
only has to happen to one person one time for the rest of us to be talking
about flying a missing-man formation.
So, we *KNOW* that everything is OK with fabric control surfaces. Converting
to metal will not improve performance of the aircraft one iota nor will it
reduce the need for recurring maintenance. Since there is really no upside
(OK, it is a little prettier) and some down side (possible dead pilot), it
just doesn't seem to be that beneficial a mod.
OTOH, it is prettier. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Man Formation |
lacloudchaser@yahoo.com,
tcalloway@datatechnique.com.p2driver@earthlink.net, MFilucci@aol.com,
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
--> Yak-List message posted by: KILOUSMC@aol.com
Hey Gang,
Thanks again for all you have done. Your presence and sacrifice were noted
more than once by Roger's Family and appreciated by all in attendance. Here
are the only pictures I have of the Missing Man Formation that was taken by
Carolyn at the grave site.
Hope everyone has recovered by now from the confessional..............
KILO
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > The PK of the ground.....9987
Barry,
We're splitting hairs on a knats ass here. Sliding across the ground on
your cans does not equal solid ground impact. The Hornet driver has a new
titanium face and rods in his back after that incident.West coast demo
driver" sitdown, I'm the CO of the Marine station and I'll fly the demo for
the home drone" bit him on the cans. The Sukoi was just damned lucky. I
have a Viper driver buddy the bounce off a mountain peak at Red Flag. Came
home wearing Pondarosa Pine. That lowers the PK to even less if we use
glancing of the ground as part of the criteria then.
When you look at the lift vectors of each of those aircraft, they were
already starting to start up. The ass end just ran out of clearance. The
Bird driver that forgot to Zero his altimeter at Mountain Home is still
here thanks to ACES II. His ground impact was dramatically solid. Now that
impressed the home crowd. Where else do you get to see a great low level
loop, followed by a dust storm, and then a skidding fire ball with a
parachutest hanging overhead all for a free admission. So much for
pyrotechnics. But unfortunately for his career, it did not impress the
brass.
I just do not want to be the one the test the theory of permenant kill
removal of the ground by ground impact. Hell, I'm an ol fart now. Like
Pappy I would break to easy now! Kidding Pappy.
Doc
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
A little more humor. I know it has nothing to do with YAKOVATING but....
Doc
There have been an average of 160,000 troops in theater (IRAQ) during
the last 22 months, which has a firearm death rate of *60* per
*100,000*.
The rate in Washington D.C. is *80.6* per *100,000*.
That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our
Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in
the nation, than you are in Iraq.
*Conclusion*: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> I just do not want to be the one the test the theory of permenant kill
> removal of the ground by ground impact.
Chance of survival is inversely proportional to angle of arrival. I think
there may be a distance factor in that equation too.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our
> Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in
> the nation, than you are in Iraq.
I agree. Washington, DC, is the only place I have ever been robbed at gun-point.
> *Conclusion*: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.
I didn't know there was any intelligent life in DC so how could we pull out?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/2/2005 3:30:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Fw: Should we pull out of IRAQ?
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> I didn't know there was any intelligent life in DC so how could we pull
out?
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
There is only Low Life. Most functioning at the Thalamic level.
Doc
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Can anyone out there give me Harry Dutson's email address?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Cj improvements
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 8/1/05 10:19:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
barry@flyredstar.org writes:
On that note, Worldwide Warbirds, Inc. is teaming with Doug Sapp to
provide what are certainly the most well appointed CJ's to hit the US
market. Some of the highlights on the aircraft include:
Barry,
Sounds like a great plan. You may want to reconsider the metal control
surfaces--there have been some issues with some of the Yak-52s that have
gone from
fabric to metal. I know Harry Dutson has had his aircraft grounded several
times for the repair of stress cracks in his rudder. He's decided to go
back
to fabric. Just a "heads up."
Regards,
Mike
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: E R <jogggles@yahoo.com>
Doug,
Harry's email address is orthopilot@msn.com. I believe he is not on the yak list.
Elizabeth
do not archive
Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp"
Can anyone out there give me Harry Dutson's email address?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Cj improvements
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 8/1/05 10:19:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
barry@flyredstar.org writes:
On that note, Worldwide Warbirds, Inc. is teaming with Doug Sapp to
provide what are certainly the most well appointed CJ's to hit the US
market. Some of the highlights on the aircraft include:
Barry,
Sounds like a great plan. You may want to reconsider the metal control
surfaces--there have been some issues with some of the Yak-52s that have
gone from
fabric to metal. I know Harry Dutson has had his aircraft grounded several
times for the repair of stress cracks in his rudder. He's decided to go
back
to fabric. Just a "heads up."
Regards,
Mike
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Me too. Stayed at Bob Fitzpatrick's on Sunday so I could experience a short field
landing on the field where our dinner was grown. Corn, of course. "Cornfield"
is the published name; apt description, gets the job done.
Lots of stops for rain over the "hills" of TN and scud running over the georgia/florida
swamps where no towers grow, just brush and critters. I managed to get
stuck Monday night in the only spot in Georgia where it was rained this morning,
late departure through one of those holes that just happened along.
Notes: it was a 15-ship during Friday airshow. 97 airplanes in the Warbird part
of the show, we looked good with a "Chevron" formation. On Saturday it was a
9-ship with 5 CJ's in a Vee with Yaks in the back forming a "shaft" in trail.
T-34's failed to show up so it was just us on top. During the Tuesday show, Pappy
had to call a lower ceiling than planned and the T-34's had to abort.
Good times had by all, even with Wild Bill getting on his nose.
Some stats on my cruise mods: At about 1850-1920 rpm and 620mm at density altitudes
of 5500', I saw 132KIAS, with true airspeeds of 137-142 knots, depending
on OAT. A consistent 11.5 nautical MPG in calm winds. During the airshows, my
burn was under 10gph thanks to Pappy slowing down for the Yaks. One of our former
CJ guys, now flying a T-28 compared fuel bills with me. My CJ burns 1/7th
of the expensive stuff.
Craig Payne
Message 17
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| Subject: | RE: CJ Improvements |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Gang,
Regarding the metalized control surfaces..... I think it would be
prudent to avoid conjecture and ask questions as opposed to slinging
fear without the facts.
Obviously the major concern with converting the control surfaces from
fabric to metal is flutter. These control surfaces have been tested to
well over red-line without even the slightest hint of flutter. They've
been tested in all attitudes and conditions of flight and found to have
no adverse effect on handling qualities (as has also been found on the
Yak-52).
What about stress cracks, you ask? We are using a heavier gauge
aluminum (.032) and are confident this will mitigate the problem.
While we cannot guarantee at this point that the metalized rudders will
last for ever, we do guarantee to stand behind our product. We feel
strongly enough about these control surfaces that IF we find excessive
fatigue issues arising in the metalized controls, we *do* guarantee
that you will have the option of us fixing the problem or replacing the
controls at no cost to the customer.
Like we do with all of our products and services, Worldwide Warbirds,
Inc., will make every effort to ensure quality and value for our
customers.
If anyone has any further questions or comments, please address them to
me directly at bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com. I will not comment
further about this on the list....
Cheers,
Barry
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