Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Yak-Question (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:19 AM - Re: Yak-Question (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 07:35 AM - Control Surface Modifications (Richard Goode)
4. 07:35 AM - M14 Helicopter Engines (Richard Goode)
5. 07:43 AM - Fw: Carbon monoxide poisoning (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 07:59 AM - Re: Fw: Carbon monoxide poisoning (Cory Emberson)
7. 12:28 PM - Re: Fw: Carbon monoxide poisoning (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
8. 12:40 PM - Re: CO Problems (Craig Payne)
9. 12:46 PM - Re: Fw: Carbon monoxide poisoning (Roger Doc Kemp)
10. 02:10 PM - Re: Yak-Question (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
11. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: CO Problems (Roger Doc Kemp)
12. 04:10 PM - Re: Yak-Question (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 04:27 PM - Re: Fw: Carbon monoxide poisoning (Doug Sapp)
14. 04:41 PM - Carbon monoxide poisoning (Frank Haertlein)
15. 05:31 PM - Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 06:58 PM - Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning (Rob Mortara)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-Question |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I have a question Steve. By "air mix" do you mean carbureator heat? If you
haven't checked the fine fuel screen for debris, I'd like to suggest you
remove the screen and examine it carefully for debris. At least this is a
starting point.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <st.ellison@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-Question
> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> Yakmen:
>
> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
> Yak-52.
> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>
> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance the
> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>
> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to about
> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
> again.
>
> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
> done very slowly.
>
> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>
> Thanks for you help!!!!
>
> Steve
>
> Yakmen:
>
> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
> Yak-52.
> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>
> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance the
> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>
> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to about
> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
> again.
>
> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
> done very slowly.
>
> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>
> Thanks for you help!!!!
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-Question |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Another question Steve. Have you had or do you know if any fuel hoses have
been rebuilt recently? There may be a "flapper" on the inside of one of the
fuel hoses causing a reduced fuel flow. If there is, it could possibly
cause complete fuel shut off.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-Question
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I have a question Steve. By "air mix" do you mean carbureator heat? If
> you
> haven't checked the fine fuel screen for debris, I'd like to suggest you
> remove the screen and examine it carefully for debris. At least this is a
> starting point.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <st.ellison@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak-Question
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>>
>> Yakmen:
>>
>> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
>> Yak-52.
>> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
>> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>>
>> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
>> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
>> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
>> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
>> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance
>> the
>> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
>> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>>
>> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
>> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to
>> about
>> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
>> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
>> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
>> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
>> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
>> again.
>>
>> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
>> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
>> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
>> done very slowly.
>>
>> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
>> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>>
>> Thanks for you help!!!!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Yakmen:
>>
>> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
>> Yak-52.
>> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
>> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>>
>> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
>> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
>> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
>> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
>> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance
>> the
>> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
>> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>>
>> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
>> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to
>> about
>> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
>> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
>> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
>> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
>> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
>> again.
>>
>> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
>> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
>> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
>> done very slowly.
>>
>> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
>> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>>
>> Thanks for you help!!!!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Control Surface Modifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
This story has probably gone on too long, but to clear the air:
I am not sure what work Aerostar did before metalizing the control surfaces.
I would be surprised and disappointed if they had 'simply pop riveted metal skins
onto stock ailerons' without:
Having access to the original design data of the aircraft.
Knowing the results of the original flutter tests.
Extrapolating the historic data for the new ailerons.
(Probably) performing new static and dynamic flutter tests.
In case Doug Sapp has any doubts, I am full of admiration for American inventiveness,
and also jealous of your freedom to be inventive.
However, that is a digression - my only point is that ANY modification that affects
the weight/centre of gravity of a control surface should be examined by appropriately
qualified individuals for its affect on flutter characteristics.
Nothing more was intended or implied.
I have no commercial interest in this issue, and no other aim apart from safety.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 4
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| Subject: | M14 Helicopter Engines |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
The engine is officially the M-14V-26.
It was made for the Kamov and then Ka-26 helicopter which had two of them.
Although its rated power was 325-hp at 2,800 I understand it is identical in all
respects with the M14P.
Of course a totally different gearbox, but a fixed-wing gearbox can be fitted straight
on.
Also I believe different magnetos, but I don't think important.
If anyone is interested in eight/ten M14V engines, all out of official overhaul
life, but complete and cheap, please contact me off list.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
From: EdrisDee@aol.com
Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if not
removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death. Some
people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and judgment.
The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via canopy
seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the rear
cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the cockpit.
This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane, in
wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one of the
more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out to
everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most likely
to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell with
the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one=20of our
pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide=20molecules
to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if not removed
from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.=20Some people
respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and judgment. The
most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you tell
it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to escape into
the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the ground
with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have one. This
leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly notice just how
much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a CJ can
tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase in the
angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another aircraft,
you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly during times
when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow will visibly increase
over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via canopy seals,
ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the rear cockpit
intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit, flowing toward
the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells. It
is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a high
pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams=20into the cockpit. This
can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane, in wheel
wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and=20seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to the demise
in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just one of the more
dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get the info out to everyone.
We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most likely to get
done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag but
even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the=20tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very=20rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell with the
GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
A very important post.
May I suggest a good CO detector as well? (Aeromedix has a couple) Not those
little stick-on things - a real device. I just looked on their website, and
the model shown is CO Experts (a little over a hundred bucks), with
sensitivities from 10 to 70 ppm. It says the visual alert is a flashing red
LED light, and the audible alert is a 85dB horn.
I had a slight touch of CO while sitting in the back seat of a Cherokee 180
about 25 years ago (I guess they're notorious for exhaust coming in through
the tail cone), and it was very unpleasant. I was sick as a dog, and very
lucky that was it.
best,
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
From: EdrisDee@aol.com
Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if
not
removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
Some
people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and judgment.
The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy
seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
rear
cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
cockpit.
This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane, in
wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one of
the
more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out to
everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely
to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell with
the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one=20of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated can
led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly than
others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any exposure
degrades response time and judgment. The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as
the rear cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear
cockpit, flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind
shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams=20into the
cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the
airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just one of
the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get the info out
to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
the=20tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
very=20rear canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
with the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
The original Russian joint seals for the YAKS and SUKES are next to
impossible to obtain, leading to a lot of backyard engineering on replacing
them. One source advised me to use the High Performance Automobile Header
Wrapping tape underneath the original clamps... which are ALSO getting very
hard to find by the way. I have searched for very thin titanium strips ala
the orignal design, and all I can come up with is .020 titanium, which is
too thick really. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has
developed a really good cure/fix for this problem.
Also, there was a post some time back that I forgot to save that addressed
exactly how to take the ball out of the valve in the oil pump and polish it
to eliminate oil bypass that then accumulates in the sump and lower
cylinders of the engine, and which then eventually drains out the stacks.
Could I ask the author to possible repeat that post or send it to me offline
please?
Thanks!
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
From: EdrisDee@aol.com
Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if
not
removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
Some
people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and judgment.
The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy
seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
rear
cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
cockpit.
This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane, in
wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one of
the
more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out to
everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely
to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell with
the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one=20of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated can
led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly than
others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any exposure
degrades response time and judgment. The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as
the rear cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear
cockpit, flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind
shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams=20into the
cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the
airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just one of
the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get the info out
to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
the=20tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
very=20rear canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
with the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Despite what some of our muckity-mucks said about the incident, I was opposite
our sickly friend, in the trailing VIC during the airshow performance where the
problem occurred. As the 3rd flight back, we were flying with our rudders up
in the smoke of flights ahead. (Traffic below us) I had CO also. My headache
got worse as the 1.8 hr formation flight wore on and I'm thinking "boy this helmet
is pinching my head", "Gosh darn" (or words to that effect).
About an hour after the flight, no problems found my my Oregon Aero helmet conversion
and no headache but I was dragging anchor the rest of the night.
Next morning we learned of our comrade in the emergency room; in the room across
from him was a T-28 guy, in for the same problem.
Hearing of the AZ louver fix, I have been trying to find a louver forming die,
about 2-3/4" long. No joy yet but I'll be trying the hot-rod shops and sheet metal
shops.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Mark,
Dennis Savarese has done it on a number of the YAKs around here. Polished
the oil valve. You can get him at dsavarese@elmore.rr.com or his office #
is 334-285-2141.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/8/2005 2:27:52 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> The original Russian joint seals for the YAKS and SUKES are next to
> impossible to obtain, leading to a lot of backyard engineering on
replacing
> them. One source advised me to use the High Performance Automobile Header
> Wrapping tape underneath the original clamps... which are ALSO getting
very
> hard to find by the way. I have searched for very thin titanium strips
ala
> the orignal design, and all I can come up with is .020 titanium, which is
> too thick really. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has
> developed a really good cure/fix for this problem.
>
> Also, there was a post some time back that I forgot to save that addressed
> exactly how to take the ball out of the valve in the oil pump and polish
it
> to eliminate oil bypass that then accumulates in the sump and lower
> cylinders of the engine, and which then eventually drains out the stacks.
> Could I ask the author to possible repeat that post or send it to me
offline
> please?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> From: EdrisDee@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:27:06 EDT
> Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
> To: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> Troops,
> An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one
of
> our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes
that
> lead
> to tragedy.
>
> Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
> hospital.
>
> Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
> molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if
> not
> removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
> Some
> people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
> symptoms
> are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and
judgment.
> The most critical abilities of a pilot.
>
> In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system
you
> tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
> PROBLEM.
>
>
> I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
>
> 1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
> escape
> into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on
the
>
> ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you
have
>
> one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
> notice
> just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
>
> 2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
> CJ
> can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
increase
> in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side
another
>
> aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing,
particularly
> during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
> will
> visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit
via
> canopy
> seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
> rear
> cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
> flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
>
> 3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
wells.
>
> It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically
a
> high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
> cockpit.
> This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane,
in
> wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
> The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and
seal
>
> the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
>
> This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led
to
> the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one
of
> the
> more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out to
> everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
> likely
> to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
>
> I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
>
> Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
>
> 1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more
drag
> but even Craig is slowing down now days).
> 2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
> 3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
> 4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the
tail
> 5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very
rear
>
> canopy.
> 6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell
with
>
> the GIB :-) )
>
> I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
>
> JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> Troops,
>
> An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put
one=20of
> our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
> lead to tragedy.
>
>
> Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
> hospital.
>
>
> Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
> monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
> molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated
can
> led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly than
> others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any exposure
> degrades response time and judgment. The most critical abilities of a
pilot.
>
>
> In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
> tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
> PROBLEM.
>
>
> I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
>
>
> 1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape
> into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on
the
> ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you
have
> one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
notice
> just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
>
>
> 2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
CJ
> can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
increase
> in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side
another
> aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing,
particularly
> during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
will
> visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
> canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as
> the rear cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear
> cockpit, flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind
> shield.
>
>
> 3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
wells.
> It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically
a
> high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams=20into the
> cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the
> airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
>
> The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
> and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
>
>
> This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
> the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just one
of
> the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get the info
out
> to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the
most
> likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
>
>
> I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
>
>
> Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
>
>
> 1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
> but even Craig is slowing down now days).
>
> 2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
>
> 3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
>
> 4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
> the=20tail
>
> 5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
> very=20rear canopy.
>
> 6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
> with the GIB :-) )
>
>
> I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
>
>
> JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Hey Steve, for what it is worth, I'll offer this input:
I assume your RPM drops on the mag checks are normal. Just for the heck of
it, make a quick check and see if both of the mags are still in sync with
each other. A complete timing check is somewhat harder to do, but if you
just check to see if the mags are timed together, (with a light/buzzer mag
timing test set) you can pretty much assume it is not a timing issue. I
agree it sounds all fuel related anyway, but it is a good thing to check to
make sure it definately is not timing, which will often LOOK like a fuel
issue.
Check for any and all obstructions to the carb air inlet. (As previously
mentioned)
Check all fuel screens as Dennis suggested.
Next, check all your intake manifold tubes and make sure none of them have
come loose at the cylinder or the manifold.
Is your fuel burn very very high? If so, check to make sure that ... with
the engine running.... when you move the priming pump handle to the prime
engine position that the engine RPM decreases and runs rich. The idea here
being to make sure that your primer handle pump is not somehow STUCK in the
prime position making the engine run way rich.
Do you have an intake drain kit? If so, make sure none of the hoses or
fittings have broken or come loose, etc.
Did you drain the fuel sump and check for debris or water contamination? It
would be interesting to completely drain the tanks and put in known good
fresh fuel. Something as simple as bad fuel could easily cause what you are
seeing.
Honestly I doubt you'll find anything wrong with the above... they're just
check list items to "make sure" of.
What I am guessing is that this is a fuel VENTING problem (although a
clogged fuel filter would do the same thing) that is getting progressively
worse. I am not an expert on the 52 fuel system, YAK-50 yes, 52, no. If
you are in fact running lean, turning the priming handle to the prime
cylinder position will GROSSLY enrichen the engine mixture. If you are
running lean due to "whatever reason" turning the handle to prime and then
checking engine performance will tell you a lot. If all of a sudden the
engine now runs PERFECTLY with no stumbles or nonsense like that, then
indeed you are running lean.
Of course, last on the list is the carb. itself, but I have never heard of a
carb failing this way. But... the bottom line is that yes... a carb COULD
indeed cause all of the listed problems. The reason I am "hoping" it is not
the carb. is because this started while you were inverted. The pressure
carb does not really give a hoot about being right side up or upside
down.... but junk in the tanks sure does, or anywhere else.
That is why my guess (for what it is worth) is that you have a fuel
restriction someplace and the engine is running lean.. Some kind of
restriction due to venting, or stuff in a filter, or a clog in a line, etc.,
etc.
Best of luck,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-Question
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I have a question Steve. By "air mix" do you mean carbureator heat? If you
haven't checked the fine fuel screen for debris, I'd like to suggest you
remove the screen and examine it carefully for debris. At least this is a
starting point.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <st.ellison@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-Question
> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>
> Yakmen:
>
> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
> Yak-52.
> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>
> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance the
> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>
> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to about
> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
> again.
>
> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
> done very slowly.
>
> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>
> Thanks for you help!!!!
>
> Steve
>
> Yakmen:
>
> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
> Yak-52.
> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>
> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance the
> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>
> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to about
> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
> again.
>
> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
> done very slowly.
>
> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>
> Thanks for you help!!!!
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Seems to me if you guys are going to continue to fly around in the diamond
sucking your exhaust and that of the one over your head, installing an 02
system with a tight fitting aviators mask is cure also. It has to be 100%
02 or you could get a closed scuba system so that you are not breathing any
ambient air. Just gonna add wt.but could flat ass save your ass since
Carbon Monoxide is colorless, odorless, and incidious.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> To: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/8/2005 2:40:25 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: CO Problems
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Despite what some of our muckity-mucks said about the incident, I was
opposite our sickly friend, in the trailing VIC during the airshow
performance where the problem occurred. As the 3rd flight back, we were
flying with our rudders up in the smoke of flights ahead. (Traffic below
us) I had CO also. My headache got worse as the 1.8 hr formation flight
wore on and I'm thinking "boy this helmet is pinching my head", "Gosh darn"
(or words to that effect).
>
> About an hour after the flight, no problems found my my Oregon Aero
helmet conversion and no headache but I was dragging anchor the rest of the
night.
>
> Next morning we learned of our comrade in the emergency room; in the room
across from him was a T-28 guy, in for the same problem.
>
> Hearing of the AZ louver fix, I have been trying to find a louver forming
die, about 2-3/4" long. No joy yet but I'll be trying the hot-rod shops and
sheet metal shops.
>
> Craig Payne
> cpayne@joimail.com
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak-Question |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Loose intake gland nuts will definitely give you irregular operation.
(Thanks for reminding me about them Mark). Particularly during other than
straight and level operations. If you don't have an M14 tool kit available
from George Coy, it would be a great thing to have. The tool kit includes
the unique intake gland nut wrench. Also, while you're at it, be sure to
tighten the intake and exhaust collars. Plus check the security of the nuts
that secure the carbureator to the engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich GS11 Mark G" <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-Question
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> Hey Steve, for what it is worth, I'll offer this input:
>
>
> I assume your RPM drops on the mag checks are normal. Just for the heck
> of
> it, make a quick check and see if both of the mags are still in sync with
> each other. A complete timing check is somewhat harder to do, but if you
> just check to see if the mags are timed together, (with a light/buzzer mag
> timing test set) you can pretty much assume it is not a timing issue. I
> agree it sounds all fuel related anyway, but it is a good thing to check
> to
> make sure it definately is not timing, which will often LOOK like a fuel
> issue.
>
> Check for any and all obstructions to the carb air inlet. (As previously
> mentioned)
> Check all fuel screens as Dennis suggested.
> Next, check all your intake manifold tubes and make sure none of them have
> come loose at the cylinder or the manifold.
> Is your fuel burn very very high? If so, check to make sure that ... with
> the engine running.... when you move the priming pump handle to the prime
> engine position that the engine RPM decreases and runs rich. The idea
> here
> being to make sure that your primer handle pump is not somehow STUCK in
> the
> prime position making the engine run way rich.
> Do you have an intake drain kit? If so, make sure none of the hoses or
> fittings have broken or come loose, etc.
> Did you drain the fuel sump and check for debris or water contamination?
> It
> would be interesting to completely drain the tanks and put in known good
> fresh fuel. Something as simple as bad fuel could easily cause what you
> are
> seeing.
>
> Honestly I doubt you'll find anything wrong with the above... they're just
> check list items to "make sure" of.
>
> What I am guessing is that this is a fuel VENTING problem (although a
> clogged fuel filter would do the same thing) that is getting progressively
> worse. I am not an expert on the 52 fuel system, YAK-50 yes, 52, no. If
> you are in fact running lean, turning the priming handle to the prime
> cylinder position will GROSSLY enrichen the engine mixture. If you are
> running lean due to "whatever reason" turning the handle to prime and then
> checking engine performance will tell you a lot. If all of a sudden the
> engine now runs PERFECTLY with no stumbles or nonsense like that, then
> indeed you are running lean.
>
> Of course, last on the list is the carb. itself, but I have never heard of
> a
> carb failing this way. But... the bottom line is that yes... a carb COULD
> indeed cause all of the listed problems. The reason I am "hoping" it is
> not
> the carb. is because this started while you were inverted. The pressure
> carb does not really give a hoot about being right side up or upside
> down.... but junk in the tanks sure does, or anywhere else.
>
> That is why my guess (for what it is worth) is that you have a fuel
> restriction someplace and the engine is running lean.. Some kind of
> restriction due to venting, or stuff in a filter, or a clog in a line,
> etc.,
> etc.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-Question
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I have a question Steve. By "air mix" do you mean carbureator heat? If
> you
>
> haven't checked the fine fuel screen for debris, I'd like to suggest you
> remove the screen and examine it carefully for debris. At least this is a
> starting point.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <st.ellison@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak-Question
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: st.ellison@comcast.net
>>
>> Yakmen:
>>
>> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
>> Yak-52.
>> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
>> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>>
>> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
>> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
>> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
>> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
>> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance
>> the
>
>> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
>> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>>
>> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
>> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to
>> about
>
>> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
>> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
>> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
>> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
>> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
>> again.
>>
>> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
>> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
>> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
>> done very slowly.
>>
>> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
>> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>>
>> Thanks for you help!!!!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Yakmen:
>>
>> I'm looking for a little insight into a problem I am encountering on my
>> Yak-52.
>> I am guessing it is a fuel system problem but being such a beginner at
>> this I really don't know. Here are the symptoms I have experienced.
>>
>> 1. After flying about 1/2 hour doing rolls and loops I landed and fueled
>> the plane. After takeoff back toward the practice area I rolled inverted
>> and continued the climb at 82% and 80mmHg at about 110mph. About 10
>> seconds after rolling inverted the prop % and mmhg both started to drop
>> noticeably. I rolled upright and leveled the plane. As I would advance
>> the
>
>> throttle forward from there the RPM% would drop. Air mix was set at the
>> mid position.. I backed everything off to 70 65 and went home.
>>
>> 2. Next day I flew again. Checked everything on the ground and all tested
>> well. Took off and climbed to 3000 ft. At altitude I set the prop to
>> about
>
>> 82% and advanced the throttle. Things seemd a little sluggish but nothing
>> you could put your finger on until very near full throttle when you could
>> feel the engine start to surge very slightly. Air mix was tried in both
>> the closed and open positions with the same result. This would disappear
>> as you reduced the throttle and return as you advance near full throttle
>> again.
>>
>> 3. Upon landing from the second flight described above I checked the idle
>> to power transition while sitting on the tarmac. The was now a very
>> definite hesitation when you advance the throttle off of 40% unless it is
>> done very slowly.
>>
>> I would appreciate and comments on what the problem might be and where to
>> look for the fix. Has anyone experienced this themselves?
>>
>> Thanks for you help!!!!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Shim stock is normally available is all metals and in many thicknesses, try
a machine shop supply house. I have a small roll of stainless .005 that is
about 1 inch wide in my tool chest, no idea where it came from. Wasn't
there a posting from someone in the past who found a high test tape from Mc
Master Carr or some such?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
The original Russian joint seals for the YAKS and SUKES are next to
impossible to obtain, leading to a lot of backyard engineering on replacing
them. One source advised me to use the High Performance Automobile Header
Wrapping tape underneath the original clamps... which are ALSO getting very
hard to find by the way. I have searched for very thin titanium strips ala
the orignal design, and all I can come up with is .020 titanium, which is
too thick really. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has
developed a really good cure/fix for this problem.
Also, there was a post some time back that I forgot to save that addressed
exactly how to take the ball out of the valve in the oil pump and polish it
to eliminate oil bypass that then accumulates in the sump and lower
cylinders of the engine, and which then eventually drains out the stacks.
Could I ask the author to possible repeat that post or send it to me offline
please?
Thanks!
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
From: EdrisDee@aol.com
Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules, if
not
removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
Some
people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and judgment.
The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy
seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
rear
cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
cockpit.
This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane, in
wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one of
the
more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out to
everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely
to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on the tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell with
the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one=20of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes that
lead to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated can
led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly than
others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any exposure
degrades response time and judgment. The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing, particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit via
canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as
the rear cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear
cockpit, flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind
shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams=20into the
cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the
airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just one of
the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get the info out
to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the most
likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
the=20tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
very=20rear canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
with the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 14
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| Subject: | Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Pappy
I did a modification that went a long way toward reducing exhaust gases
in the cockpit.
I removed the wing to fuselage fairings, put a small bead of clear
silicone on edges of the fairings, sprayed the faying surfaces on the
fuselage with silicone and then replaced the fairings while the clear
silicone on the fairings was still uncured. This created a custom seal
for each fairing section. The spray silicone acted as the release agent.
Allot of exhaust gases were getting into the cockpit via the bottom
fairings and with the silicone treatment much of it has gone away. I
still get some into the cockpit but not nearly as much as before the
wing to fuselage junction was sealed up.
Frank
9110M
YAK-52
L71
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
From: EdrisDee@aol.com
Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one
of
our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes
that lead
to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules,
if not
removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
Some
people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
symptoms
are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and
judgment.
The most critical abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system
you
tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape
into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on
the
ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you
have
one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
notice
just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in
a CJ
can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
increase
in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side
another
aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing,
particularly
during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
will
visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit
via canopy
seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
rear
cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
wells.
It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is
basically a
high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
cockpit.
This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane,
in
wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and
seal
the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led
to
the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one
of the
more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out
to
everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the
most likely
to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more
drag
but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints. 3.
Sealing the seams under the cockpit. 4. Putting vents on all detachable
panels under the fuselage and on the tail 5. Sealing the rear cockpit
from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell
with
the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Troops,
An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put
one=20of our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of
episodes that lead to tragedy.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
hospital.
Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated
can led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly
than others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any
exposure degrades response time and judgment. The most critical
abilities of a pilot.
In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system
you tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE
A PROBLEM.
I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
escape into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be
noted on the ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke
system on if you have one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling
but you will quickly notice just how much exhaust gas is coming from
those joints.
2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
CJ can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
increase in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along
side another aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the
wing, particularly during times when there is an increase in the angle
of attack. The flow will visibly increase over the wing. From here it
migrates into the cockpit via canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit.
I have seen the flow as high as the rear cockpit intake vent. I have
seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit, flowing toward the low
pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
wells. It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is
basically a high pressure area, that than passes though holes and
seams=20into the cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on
the rear of the airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in
the flap well.
The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led
to the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just
one of the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get
the info out to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the
CHEAPEST (the most likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more
drag but even Craig is slowing down now days).
2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
the=20tail
5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
very=20rear canopy.
6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
with the GIB :-) )
I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Excellent suggestion Frank. For those who have not paid any attention to
it, there are some very large openings around the flap pushrods in the rear
cockpit, unless your airplane is one of the less than 50% that have the
original flap pushrod covers installed. You're GIB will definitely feel the
draft in the winter. Fabricating a cover can be very useful and much more
comfortable for your GIB during the colder months.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Carbon monoxide poisoning
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Pappy
>
> I did a modification that went a long way toward reducing exhaust gases
> in the cockpit.
>
> I removed the wing to fuselage fairings, put a small bead of clear
> silicone on edges of the fairings, sprayed the faying surfaces on the
> fuselage with silicone and then replaced the fairings while the clear
> silicone on the fairings was still uncured. This created a custom seal
> for each fairing section. The spray silicone acted as the release agent.
>
> Allot of exhaust gases were getting into the cockpit via the bottom
> fairings and with the silicone treatment much of it has gone away. I
> still get some into the cockpit but not nearly as much as before the
> wing to fuselage junction was sealed up.
>
> Frank
> 9110M
> YAK-52
> L71
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> cjpilot710@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Fwd: Carbon monoxide poisoning
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> From: EdrisDee@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:27:06 EDT
> Subject: Carbon monoxide poisoning
> To: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> Troops,
> An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put one
> of
> our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of episodes
> that lead
> to tragedy.
>
> Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
>
> hospital.
>
> Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon monoxide
> molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen molecules,
> if not
> removed from the its presents or not medically treated can led to death.
> Some
> people respond to its presents more quickly than others. Some times the
> symptoms
> are just feeling tired. Any exposure degrades response time and
> judgment.
> The most critical abilities of a pilot.
>
> In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system
> you
> tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE A
> PROBLEM.
>
>
> I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
>
> 1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
> escape
> into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be noted on
> the
> ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke system on if you
> have
> one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling but you will quickly
> notice
> just how much exhaust gas is coming from those joints.
>
> 2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in
> a CJ
> can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
> increase
> in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along side
> another
> aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the wing,
> particularly
> during times when there is an increase in the angle of attack. The flow
> will
> visibly increase over the wing. From here it migrates into the cockpit
> via canopy
> seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit. I have seen the flow as high as the
> rear
> cockpit intake vent. I have seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit,
> flowing toward the low pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
>
> 3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
> wells.
> It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is
> basically a
> high pressure area, that than passes though holes and seams into the
> cockpit.
> This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on the rear of the airplane,
> in
> wheel wells, under the belly and even in the flap well.
> The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate" and
> seal
> the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
>
> This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led
> to
> the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable. Just one
> of the
> more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we must get the info out
> to
> everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the CHEAPEST (the
> most likely
> to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
>
> I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
>
> Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
>
> 1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more
> drag
> but even Craig is slowing down now days).
> 2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints. 3.
> Sealing the seams under the cockpit. 4. Putting vents on all detachable
> panels under the fuselage and on the tail 5. Sealing the rear cockpit
> from outside airflow, particularly the very rear
> canopy.
> 6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to hell
> with
> the GIB :-) )
>
> I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
>
> JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> Troops,
>
> An insentient happened at OSH during one of our formations that put
> one=20of our pilots into the hospital. It is one of the worst kind of
> episodes that lead to tragedy.
>
>
> Carbon monoxide poisoning. This was confrimed by a blood gas test at the
> hospital.
>
>
> Most of the time you can't smell the stuff, but because carbon
> monoxide=20molecules to attach to the red blood cells instead of oxygen
> molecules, if not removed from the its presents or not medically treated
> can led to death.=20Some people respond to its presents more quickly
> than others. Some times the symptoms are just feeling tired. Any
> exposure degrades response time and judgment. The most critical
> abilities of a pilot.
>
>
> In the CJ and Yak the problem is the same. If you have a smoke system
> you tell it just by turning on the smoke. IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING YOU HAVE
> A PROBLEM.
>
>
> I believe their are several cause in the CJ and Yaks.
>
>
> 1. The exhaust stack joint seals. They allow a lot of exhaust gas to
> escape into the rear engine area and out the cowl cheeks. This can be
> noted on the ground with the cowl off, engine running and the smoke
> system on if you have one. This leakage does not effect engine cooling
> but you will quickly notice just how much exhaust gas is coming from
> those joints.
>
>
> 2. Aerodynamic airflow's. Anyone who has done acrobatics with smoke in a
> CJ can tell you the smoke will inter the cockpit any time there is an
> increase in the angle of attack. Also just noting smoke flow from along
> side another aircraft, you will see that it does not all go under the
> wing, particularly during times when there is an increase in the angle
> of attack. The flow will visibly increase over the wing. From here it
> migrates into the cockpit via canopy seals, ESPECIALLY the rear cockpit.
> I have seen the flow as high as the rear cockpit intake vent. I have
> seen the smoke come from the rear cockpit, flowing toward the low
> pressure area made by the forward wind shield.
>
>
> 3. Exhaust migrating from the belly area into the fuselage via wheel
> wells. It is believe that the wheel wells trap a lot of gas in what is
> basically a high pressure area, that than passes though holes and
> seams=20into the cockpit. This can be validated by unburned smoke oil on
> the rear of the airplane, in wheel wells, under the belly and even in
> the flap well.
>
> The Arizona boys have tried with some great success to "ventilate"
> and=20seal the bottom of the fuselage under the cockpits.
>
>
> This is a serious problem folks. Who knows, maybe the effects have led
> to the demise in someway to fellow members. It is not unfixable.=20Just
> one of the more dangerous aspects of our airplanes. But we=20must get
> the info out to everyone. We need to get out info on the best and the
> CHEAPEST (the most likely to get done) fixes. KISS all the way.
>
>
> I put it to you our members, pilots and owners.
>
>
> Right now I plan on doing the following to mine.
>
>
> 1. Extending my exhaust stacks another 4 to 6 inches. (May cause more
> drag but even Craig is slowing down now days).
>
> 2. Coming up with a better seal for the exhaust stacks joints.
>
> 3. Sealing the seams under the cockpit.
>
> 4. Putting vents on all detachable panels under the fuselage and on
> the=20tail
>
> 5. Sealing the rear cockpit from outside airflow, particularly the
> very=20rear canopy.
>
> 6. Adding a supplemental oxygen bottle for the front cockpit. (to=20hell
> with the GIB :-) )
>
>
> I need to save what few cognitive brain cells I have left.
>
>
> JIm "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Carbon monoxide poisoning |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
I get copious amounts of smoke inside when I turn on the smoke system. I had
it so bad one time I went IFR inside the cockpit.
I have since put a one piece exhaust system which helps but I still get
smoke in side when I use it.
Any suggestions for a better CO dectector for inside
What to do to seal the cockpit
rob
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