Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (Gpw678@aol.com)
2. 01:53 AM - Outrunning a 50...?? (Timothy Gagnon)
3. 03:33 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (Kevin Pilling)
4. 04:01 AM - Re: Race? (Cpayne)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (Roger Kemp)
6. 07:00 AM - Hanger clean-up (Kelley Monroe)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (Ernest Martinez)
8. 07:31 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: ACM brief (Barry Hancock)
10. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Ernest Martinez)
11. 09:05 AM - Re: Betsy (Barry Hancock)
12. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Brian Lloyd)
13. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Ernest Martinez)
14. 09:41 AM - Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE (Roger Kemp)
15. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Race? (Roger Kemp)
17. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Ernest Martinez)
18. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Betsy (Roger Kemp)
19. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Roger Kemp)
20. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Roger Kemp)
21. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Jon Boede)
22. 10:47 AM - Re: Hassle (Steve Dalton)
23. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Betsy (Ernest Martinez)
24. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: Betsy (Brian Lloyd)
25. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Re: Race? (Cpayne)
26. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: Betsy (Ernest Martinez)
27. 04:31 PM - Re: Hassle (Roger Kemp)
28. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Race? (Roger Kemp)
29. 05:09 PM - Red Air Fall Fling 14-16 Oct 05 (Roger Kemp)
30. 05:13 PM - Re: Hassle (Roger Kemp)
31. 05:17 PM - How fast is your Yak 52? (NapeOne@aol.com)
32. 05:17 PM - How fast is your Yak 52? (NapeOne@aol.com)
33. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: ACM brief (Roger Kemp)
34. 06:09 PM - Re: How fast is your Yak 52? (Roger Kemp)
35. 06:33 PM - job (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
Hi Doc,
What i mean is, comparitivley, the L39 is the only jet that is half
economical compared to the others.
It's good fun for us guys that don't get the privilage of running around in
F16s at no cost ( very jealous)
But as you also say,in Bang for the bucks terms, you just cant beat a good
old Yak / Nangchang.
sorry about the delay, but i am on the other side of the world to you guys.
Fly safe and have fun y' all
ger
Message 2
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| Subject: | Outrunning a 50...?? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Timothy Gagnon <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
You can run...but you will only die tired.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
That's plain...or more like plane greedy !
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
>
> I Know what you mean, I have a hunter, two strikemasters, a gnat, a
> vampire
> and an L39. e fuel prices are enough to make you cry. the only one worth
> flying is the 39 at the moment. Can't wait to get my Yak
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
>
>Come to REDSTAR in May 2006 and you can pick from the 9-12 Yak 50's to race.
>All are on the faster West Coast at sea level. Some can even go 5 hours at top
>speed even.....at 140+ knots.
>
>
So, there's a race at AllRedStar then?, are you sponsoring it? 2500 miles is an
expensive trip just to kick some Yak butt, I can do that anywhere. How about
some cash prize incentives?
BTW, you won't need the 5 hours but you will need a another 40 knots minimum.
Craig Payne
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
GER,
I would still love to get to fly all you are flying. Your own air force is
something to behold. You will love the YAK though. The Viper is a blast,
but there is a profile to fly and training squares that have to be met on
evry sortie flown. Even on a cross country, training squares have to be
filled. That can take away some of the fun (just a little of it). The YAK
is just care free flying. Granted you're fuel limited and it is not going
upstairs at >10K/min with a blower lit pulling 4 G's on TO. That is a kick
in the ass, but I still love the YAK also. All the Viper drivers on the
list will say it was or is some of the most fun they have had in their
lifetime "with their cloths on".
Hey though, that Gnat of yours is a little rocket too!
Fly Safe and Chec 6,
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: <Gpw678@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 3:22:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
>
> Hi Doc,
>
> What i mean is, comparitivley, the L39 is the only jet that is half
> economical compared to the others.
>
> It's good fun for us guys that don't get the privilage of running around
in
> F16s at no cost ( very jealous)
>
> But as you also say,in Bang for the bucks terms, you just cant beat a
good
> old Yak / Nangchang.
>
> sorry about the delay, but i am on the other side of the world to you
guys.
>
> Fly safe and have fun y' all
>
> ger
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kelley Monroe" <kelmonroe@comcast.net>
I am cleaning out my hanger from something's I removed from CJs.
Bendix King KR21 marker beacon receiver 13.75 vdc with CI102 antenna $200
Wag-Aero ICS Plus Nav/ Com/ VOR/ LOC/ GS $200
Comant CI158C VOR antenna $75
Aerosonic 1456 Altimeter -1000 to 35,000 OH 1996 $300
Kollsman 988-10-06 Scout Air speed indicator 0-200 $100
Pioneer 3412-2D-A G Meter 3 1/8" -5 to +12 OH 1998 $100
All of these parts were working when removed. Contact me off list or call my cell
612-508-3740.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Theres absolutely no way to rationalize the ownership of a jet. I own it
purely because I like it. Due to fuel prices, I havent been flying it much,
bit I even like just going into the hangar and looking at it. Some people
own model airplanes, I have a 100% scale model :)
Ernie
On 9/9/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> GER,
> I would still love to get to fly all you are flying. Your own air force is
> something to behold. You will love the YAK though. The Viper is a blast,
> but there is a profile to fly and training squares that have to be met on
> evry sortie flown. Even on a cross country, training squares have to be
> filled. That can take away some of the fun (just a little of it). The YAK
> is just care free flying. Granted you're fuel limited and it is not going
> upstairs at >10K/min with a blower lit pulling 4 G's on TO. That is a kick
> in the ass, but I still love the YAK also. All the Viper drivers on the
> list will say it was or is some of the most fun they have had in their
> lifetime "with their cloths on".
> Hey though, that Gnat of yours is a little rocket too!
> Fly Safe and Chec 6,
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <Gpw678@aol.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/9/2005 3:22:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
> >
> > Hi Doc,
> >
> > What i mean is, comparitivley, the L39 is the only jet that is half
> > economical compared to the others.
> >
> > It's good fun for us guys that don't get the privilage of running around
> in
> > F16s at no cost ( very jealous)
> >
> > But as you also say,in Bang for the bucks terms, you just cant beat a
> good
> > old Yak / Nangchang.
> >
> > sorry about the delay, but i am on the other side of the world to you
> guys.
> >
> > Fly safe and have fun y' all
> >
> > ger
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Otherwise known as a "12 inches to the foot" model.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Theres absolutely no way to rationalize the ownership of a jet. I own it
> purely because I like it. Due to fuel prices, I havent been flying it
> much,
> bit I even like just going into the hangar and looking at it. Some people
> own model airplanes, I have a 100% scale model :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 9/9/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> GER,
>> I would still love to get to fly all you are flying. Your own air force
>> is
>> something to behold. You will love the YAK though. The Viper is a blast,
>> but there is a profile to fly and training squares that have to be met on
>> evry sortie flown. Even on a cross country, training squares have to be
>> filled. That can take away some of the fun (just a little of it). The YAK
>> is just care free flying. Granted you're fuel limited and it is not going
>> upstairs at >10K/min with a blower lit pulling 4 G's on TO. That is a
>> kick
>> in the ass, but I still love the YAK also. All the Viper drivers on the
>> list will say it was or is some of the most fun they have had in their
>> lifetime "with their cloths on".
>> Hey though, that Gnat of yours is a little rocket too!
>> Fly Safe and Chec 6,
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: <Gpw678@aol.com>
>> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > Date: 9/9/2005 3:22:14 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
>> >
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
>> >
>> > Hi Doc,
>> >
>> > What i mean is, comparitivley, the L39 is the only jet that is half
>> > economical compared to the others.
>> >
>> > It's good fun for us guys that don't get the privilage of running
>> > around
>> in
>> > F16s at no cost ( very jealous)
>> >
>> > But as you also say,in Bang for the bucks terms, you just cant beat a
>> good
>> > old Yak / Nangchang.
>> >
>> > sorry about the delay, but i am on the other side of the world to you
>> guys.
>> >
>> > Fly safe and have fun y' all
>> >
>> > ger
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> OK, Fights On, Fights On...Knives and Guns in the phone both...no
> valid BVR
> or Heater Kills. Only Guns kills with permenant kill removal... no
> regeneration from the penalty box and KO calls after 360 deg. turn for
> DLO.
> Set Floor at 2000' so the CJ's can recover from inadvertant out of
> conrtrol
> situations when they try to break and turn with the YAKs.
> Doc
Doc,
You need to get your butt out here and fly with us during one of our
advanced tactical clinics. I'm sure we can find a front seat of a
Yak-52 for you to fly. Inadvertent OCF is more of a problem for the
-52...you get one grab for the WEZ and then it takes a week to get the
E back. The CJ whispers, talks, yells, screams, and then beats you on
the head with a pot before it goes OCF. The -52 needs all of the E she
can muster to get the shot, so if you're not *real* careful when you're
pulling on the ragged edge to get the shot.....WHOMP...OCF she goes!
CJ goes nose high, rudders over and szchwaaak!
It's a fun fight and with comparably skilled pilots the airplanes don't
make the difference.... Oh, and when things start looking less than
stellar for the CJ, it can extend and live to fight another day....
That being said I have a very intimate picture of what the business end
of a Yak-52 looks like from the front hole of my CJ....
"Turn it in, fights on!"
Bdog
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Is this english????
Ernie
On 9/9/05, Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > OK, Fights On, Fights On...Knives and Guns in the phone both...no
> > valid BVR
> > or Heater Kills. Only Guns kills with permenant kill removal... no
> > regeneration from the penalty box and KO calls after 360 deg. turn for
> > DLO.
> > Set Floor at 2000' so the CJ's can recover from inadvertant out of
> > conrtrol
> > situations when they try to break and turn with the YAKs.
> > Doc
>
> Doc,
>
> You need to get your butt out here and fly with us during one of our
> advanced tactical clinics. I'm sure we can find a front seat of a
> Yak-52 for you to fly. Inadvertent OCF is more of a problem for the
> -52...you get one grab for the WEZ and then it takes a week to get the
> E back. The CJ whispers, talks, yells, screams, and then beats you on
> the head with a pot before it goes OCF. The -52 needs all of the E she
> can muster to get the shot, so if you're not *real* careful when you're
> pulling on the ragged edge to get the shot.....WHOMP...OCF she goes!
> CJ goes nose high, rudders over and szchwaaak!
>
> It's a fun fight and with comparably skilled pilots the airplanes don't
> make the difference.... Oh, and when things start looking less than
> stellar for the CJ, it can extend and live to fight another day....
> That being said I have a very intimate picture of what the business end
> of a Yak-52 looks like from the front hole of my CJ....
>
> "Turn it in, fights on!"
>
> Bdog
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> Just people helping each other.
>
> I know that this storm was much worse, and caused tremendous harm and
> damage. I just simply don't understand why the people have changed so
> much, and
>
> why we all seem to look to government to solve all of our problems for
> us.
Amen, Ray! The levees breaking and the holes getting larger are great
symbology to what has happened and continues to happen to the
principals that this country were founded on and made it great. Pretty
soon people are going to start to blame DUATS for them flying into bad
weather....but, maybe not, at least it seems pilots are one of the last
bastions of self reliance in this country. I do fear where this once
great land will be 50 years from now........
And this does relate to flying...we all need to be proactive in defense
of, and an advocate for, GA and warbird aviation. Supporting
organizations like the RPA, EAA, AOPA, the CJAA, etc. are the least we
can do...
Cheers,
Barry
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Is this english????
Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the time,
DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
Ernie
On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Ernest Martinez wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Is this english????
>
> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Speaking of Model airplanes (RC and Plastic), I have some of those damned
things too! Just not enough hours in the day for all the toys (and the
wife along with work to pay for the wife and toys).
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 9:24:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Theres absolutely no way to rationalize the ownership of a jet. I own it
> purely because I like it. Due to fuel prices, I havent been flying it
much,
> bit I even like just going into the hangar and looking at it. Some people
> own model airplanes, I have a 100% scale model :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 9/9/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > GER,
> > I would still love to get to fly all you are flying. Your own air force
is
> > something to behold. You will love the YAK though. The Viper is a blast,
> > but there is a profile to fly and training squares that have to be met
on
> > evry sortie flown. Even on a cross country, training squares have to be
> > filled. That can take away some of the fun (just a little of it). The
YAK
> > is just care free flying. Granted you're fuel limited and it is not
going
> > upstairs at >10K/min with a blower lit pulling 4 G's on TO. That is a
kick
> > in the ass, but I still love the YAK also. All the Viper drivers on the
> > list will say it was or is some of the most fun they have had in their
> > lifetime "with their cloths on".
> > Hey though, that Gnat of yours is a little rocket too!
> > Fly Safe and Chec 6,
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <Gpw678@aol.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 9/9/2005 3:22:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A 285HP ENGINE
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Gpw678@aol.com
> > >
> > > Hi Doc,
> > >
> > > What i mean is, comparitivley, the L39 is the only jet that is half
> > > economical compared to the others.
> > >
> > > It's good fun for us guys that don't get the privilage of running
around
> > in
> > > F16s at no cost ( very jealous)
> > >
> > > But as you also say,in Bang for the bucks terms, you just cant beat a
> > good
> > > old Yak / Nangchang.
> > >
> > > sorry about the delay, but i am on the other side of the world to you
> > guys.
> > >
> > > Fly safe and have fun y' all
> > >
> > > ger
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
They only know how to speak in 3 or 4 letter acronyms Ernie. :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the time,
> DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>> Ernest Martinez wrote:
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > Is this english????
>>
>> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
So Craig, What are you feeding that CJ? Nitro? Or am I smelling Smoke?
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 6:01:37 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Race?
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
> >
> >Come to REDSTAR in May 2006 and you can pick from the 9-12 Yak 50's to
race.
> >All are on the faster West Coast at sea level. Some can even go 5 hours
at top
> >speed even.....at 140+ knots.
> >
> >
> So, there's a race at AllRedStar then?, are you sponsoring it? 2500 miles
is an expensive trip just to kick some Yak butt, I can do that anywhere.
How about some cash prize incentives?
>
> BTW, you won't need the 5 hours but you will need a another 40 knots
minimum.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
This is what I call TFA.
Ernie
On 9/9/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <
> dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> They only know how to speak in 3 or 4 letter acronyms Ernie. :-)
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the
> time,
> > DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >>
> >> Ernest Martinez wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > Is this english????
> >>
> >> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> >> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> >> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >>
> >> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
> .
> >> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Amen brother. If we do not clean up the way we handle the welfare state,
the whole democracy will crumble! Then GA will be everybody running to get
away from the tranny, but there will be no place to run! Thomas Jefferson
was right! "We have created a good government if it does not try to do to
much for it's people." Well we have seen up close and personal (for me that
is and I'm sure others too) just what that welfare state unleased on the
rest of the law abiding population. Believe me (or go to your local ER
and/or volunteer to ride with your local police/ sherrif's department) it
is in your community just waiting for a breakdown in the system to be
unleased with full fury.
Yes, I do mean that just throwing money at the problem is not the answer! A
social reform is needed. No, has to take place! If it takes forcing them
(all lower economic races) off their buts and into the work place. It is
going to have to happen. If you get a government check, you do something to
earn it. If it means enrolling them in adult education classes, vocational
training, social skills classes along with health and hygiene training, so
that their answer to a problem is not to yell, scream and break things. To
get the chech, they have to be present and do the time. There is plenty of
work to do in this great nation and around the world for that matter to
keep our entire gheto population productive. I know, it'll never happen
between the ACLU, Green Peace and all the other tree huggers blocking any
semblance of that degree of social reform! It is entirely because of the
Roosevelt, Truman,Kennedy, and Johnson plan for the Great Society. Well we
now see the results of that 4 decade old Great Society experiment. A lower
socio-economic class that in times of emergency expects the government to
come pull them out. They have not learned or ever for that matter been
taught how to problem solve and do for them selves. Some parts of that
population are so FUBAR that nothing can ever improve their state. All they
expect is a "gemme" and it is their right to that "gemme" because they were
born into that environment.
After all, God said it in the old testament "Idle hands are the devil's
work shop." We are seeing the product of those idle hands...shooting,
looting, rapeing, and killing their inocent fellow man in an emergency when
the rest of decent civilized Americans and the world are pulling togather
to try to bring aid to them. There is alot of blame to go around for this
social fiasco. We just need to, as grass roots civilians, work togather to
fix this broken societal wheel before it rolls back crushes each of us.
This fiasco has and will affect each an everyone of our lives for the next
few months and for years to come. Hey, look at the cost of AV GAS now! Glad
I own one of those economical YAKs and not an L-39. I really would be
whinning.
I'm done preaching. Off list I will send any of you a news article that was
forwarded to me for a friend. I tracked down the author, was a bit liberal
to start but has from what he wrote has awaked and is smelling the Coffee!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 11:04:48 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Betsy
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > Just people helping each other.
> >
> > I know that this storm was much worse, and caused tremendous harm and
> > damage. I just simply don't understand why the people have changed so
> > much, and
> >
> > why we all seem to look to government to solve all of our problems for
> > us.
>
> Amen, Ray! The levees breaking and the holes getting larger are great
> symbology to what has happened and continues to happen to the
> principals that this country were founded on and made it great. Pretty
> soon people are going to start to blame DUATS for them flying into bad
> weather....but, maybe not, at least it seems pilots are one of the last
> bastions of self reliance in this country. I do fear where this once
> great land will be 50 years from now........
>
> And this does relate to flying...we all need to be proactive in defense
> of, and an advocate for, GA and warbird aviation. Supporting
> organizations like the RPA, EAA, AOPA, the CJAA, etc. are the least we
> can do...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
>
>
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Rogooo...Bdog
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 10:54:08 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > OK, Fights On, Fights On...Knives and Guns in the phone both...no
> > valid BVR
> > or Heater Kills. Only Guns kills with permenant kill removal... no
> > regeneration from the penalty box and KO calls after 360 deg. turn for
> > DLO.
> > Set Floor at 2000' so the CJ's can recover from inadvertant out of
> > conrtrol
> > situations when they try to break and turn with the YAKs.
> > Doc
>
> Doc,
>
> You need to get your butt out here and fly with us during one of our
> advanced tactical clinics. I'm sure we can find a front seat of a
> Yak-52 for you to fly. Inadvertent OCF is more of a problem for the
> -52...you get one grab for the WEZ and then it takes a week to get the
> E back. The CJ whispers, talks, yells, screams, and then beats you on
> the head with a pot before it goes OCF. The -52 needs all of the E she
> can muster to get the shot, so if you're not *real* careful when you're
> pulling on the ragged edge to get the shot.....WHOMP...OCF she goes!
> CJ goes nose high, rudders over and szchwaaak!
>
> It's a fun fight and with comparably skilled pilots the airplanes don't
> make the difference.... Oh, and when things start looking less than
> stellar for the CJ, it can extend and live to fight another day....
> That being said I have a very intimate picture of what the business end
> of a Yak-52 looks like from the front hole of my CJ....
>
> "Turn it in, fights on!"
>
> Bdog
>
>
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Also wear big watches and fly with our hands1
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 11:41:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> They only know how to speak in 3 or 4 letter acronyms Ernie. :-)
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the
time,
> > DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >>
> >> Ernest Martinez wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > Is this english????
> >>
> >> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> >> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> >> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >>
> >> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
.
> >> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
I second the motion... anybody care to translate?
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the time,
> DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>> Ernest Martinez wrote:
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > Is this english????
>>
>> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
>> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Dalton" <sdalton@goeaston.net>
>>>>>Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com
The Yak-52 bleeds energy faster than the CJ6A does. Now it has more HP
to put energy back relative to a stock CJ6A but not relative to an
M14-powered CJ6A. It isn't clear that the Yak-52 is an advantage over a
stock CJ6A but it is pretty clear that the M14-powered CJ6A has an
energy advantage over a Yak-52under almost all conditions. (I can't
think of any situation where the Yak-52has an energy advantage in a
straight ahead hassle but I don't want to be absolute as someone will
probably think of a situation.)
So what advantage does the Yak-52 have over the CJ6A? Due to its 7G load
limit vs. the CJ6As 6G load limit it has a higher instantaneous rate of
turn. Given that the Yak-52 almost always starts slower than the CJ6A it
will be turning inside -- initially. But the CJ6A can manage energy
better. The CJ driver just goes vertical and trades kinetic energy for
potential. TAS drops so turn radius drops. Now the CJ driver has the
turn radius AND the energy advantage.
In a knife fight whoever has the airplane that bleeds energy more slowly
or can sustain energy in a turn is likely to end up the winner. Best
solution for the Yak-52 drivers? Shoot the CJ6A guy in the back when he
isn't looking and get out of Dodge. That seems to have worked reasonably
well for Erich Hartmann and some of the other guys flying behind the
black crosses.
In the end, the only thing that matters is who's dead and who's
not.<<<<<
Bryan,
Your comments about energy states are academically correct. You are
also correct about how best to kill your opponent. The fighter pilot's
goal is NOT to get into a dogfight, but rather, to shoot the dumbass in
the back before he sees you. The vast majority of guys who have been
shot down (by another fighter) in the last 90 years never saw the guy
who shot them out of the sky.
However, he who wins a knife fight (slow speed fight) is the guy with a
plane that can maneuver his nose onto the other guy, to employ weapons
against him. The winner may have much less energy than the loser, but
the winner's plane was capable of pointing his nose (turning) while the
loser, with more energy, was not as maneuverable.
For example, a Yak-52 or CJ can easily defeat an F-16 in a dogfight
where the Yak/CJ has 100 kts and the F-16 has 150 kts. The Yak can
quickly turn and shoot the F-16, while the F-16 can barely move his
nose. Trust me, I've been there in an F-16 versus another fighter that
could point his nose at 150 kts and I lost the fight. Thus the fighter
pilot's mantra, "Speed is life."
I have flown both the Yak-52 and CJ in dogfights. The Yak-52 is
slightly more maneuverable in a slow speed fight (I assume this is
primarily due to the different wing designs). You can turn and point
the -52 at speeds where the CJ just buffets and doesn't turn worth a
hoot. So when, as you mentioned, the CJ goes into the vertical the Yak
pilot just points his nose at the climbing CJ and shoots him. The CJ
had more energy, but he died...energy isn't everything.
So, the best solution for the Yak-52 pilot is to force the CJ pilot into
a knife fight where the Yak has the advantage. The CJ pilot should
avoid getting in a slow speed fight with a Yak. Just like an F-16
should avoid a slow speed fight with a Mig-21. The Mig has the
advantage at slow speeds.
Now, having said all that, my experience has been that regardless of
aircraft types and energy states the BEST PILOT is the guy who usually
wins. Enjoyed the discussion!
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I think I'd rather read the Fighter Pilot bable.
Ernie
On 9/9/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Amen brother. If we do not clean up the way we handle the welfare state,
> the whole democracy will crumble! Then GA will be everybody running to get
> away from the tranny, but there will be no place to run! Thomas Jefferson
> was right! "We have created a good government if it does not try to do to
> much for it's people." Well we have seen up close and personal (for me
> that
> is and I'm sure others too) just what that welfare state unleased on the
> rest of the law abiding population. Believe me (or go to your local ER
> and/or volunteer to ride with your local police/ sherrif's department) it
> is in your community just waiting for a breakdown in the system to be
> unleased with full fury.
> Yes, I do mean that just throwing money at the problem is not the answer!
> A
> social reform is needed. No, has to take place! If it takes forcing them
> (all lower economic races) off their buts and into the work place. It is
> going to have to happen. If you get a government check, you do something
> to
> earn it. If it means enrolling them in adult education classes, vocational
> training, social skills classes along with health and hygiene training, so
> that their answer to a problem is not to yell, scream and break things. To
> get the chech, they have to be present and do the time. There is plenty of
> work to do in this great nation and around the world for that matter to
> keep our entire gheto population productive. I know, it'll never happen
> between the ACLU, Green Peace and all the other tree huggers blocking any
> semblance of that degree of social reform! It is entirely because of the
> Roosevelt, Truman,Kennedy, and Johnson plan for the Great Society. Well we
> now see the results of that 4 decade old Great Society experiment. A lower
> socio-economic class that in times of emergency expects the government to
> come pull them out. They have not learned or ever for that matter been
> taught how to problem solve and do for them selves. Some parts of that
> population are so FUBAR that nothing can ever improve their state. All
> they
> expect is a "gemme" and it is their right to that "gemme" because they
> were
> born into that environment.
> After all, God said it in the old testament "Idle hands are the devil's
> work shop." We are seeing the product of those idle hands...shooting,
> looting, rapeing, and killing their inocent fellow man in an emergency
> when
> the rest of decent civilized Americans and the world are pulling togather
> to try to bring aid to them. There is alot of blame to go around for this
> social fiasco. We just need to, as grass roots civilians, work togather to
> fix this broken societal wheel before it rolls back crushes each of us.
> This fiasco has and will affect each an everyone of our lives for the next
> few months and for years to come. Hey, look at the cost of AV GAS now!
> Glad
> I own one of those economical YAKs and not an L-39. I really would be
> whinning.
> I'm done preaching. Off list I will send any of you a news article that
> was
> forwarded to me for a friend. I tracked down the author, was a bit liberal
> to start but has from what he wrote has awaked and is smelling the Coffee!
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/9/2005 11:04:48 AM
> > Subject: Yak-List: Re: Betsy
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> >
> >
> > On Sep 8, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> >
> > > Just people helping each other.
> > >
> > > I know that this storm was much worse, and caused tremendous harm and
> > > damage. I just simply don't understand why the people have changed so
> > > much, and
> > >
> > > why we all seem to look to government to solve all of our problems for
> > > us.
> >
> > Amen, Ray! The levees breaking and the holes getting larger are great
> > symbology to what has happened and continues to happen to the
> > principals that this country were founded on and made it great. Pretty
> > soon people are going to start to blame DUATS for them flying into bad
> > weather....but, maybe not, at least it seems pilots are one of the last
> > bastions of self reliance in this country. I do fear where this once
> > great land will be 50 years from now........
> >
> > And this does relate to flying...we all need to be proactive in defense
> > of, and an advocate for, GA and warbird aviation. Supporting
> > organizations like the RPA, EAA, AOPA, the CJAA, etc. are the least we
> > can do...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I think I'd rather read the Fighter Pilot bable.
<sigh> Playing with airplanes is really what life is all about. There is no
higher activity than playing with airplanes.
But we do have a political issue too. For example, I was taught that every
gunfight involves surviving three things:
1. the gunfight itself;
2. the criminal legal system;
3. the civil legal system.
If we want to keep flying not only do we have to survive the flight but we
have to survive the political system too.
We don't really see it yet but more and more out flying is going to become
politicized if we want to keep doing it. The masses of people vote. The
politicians want to get reelected. The politicians will do what will get them
the most votes. They will play to the masses. We aren't the masses. The masses
do not perceive the value in what we do. So how do we keep the politicians
from voting away our privileges?
And there is no place else to go. I would have said Australia, New Zealand, or
South Africa but all of those places have moved steadily in direction of
socialism.
So how do we make sure we keep flying?
<sigh> No, I don't have any good answers.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Race? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>So Craig, What are you feeding that CJ? Nitro? Or am I smelling Smoke?
>Doc
>
>
Doc,
The smoke you smell is coming from your cockpit. I have built up a solid track
record of running in races open to the public, with published results and cheap
wall plaques to prove it. I have the same engine as you do, but I'd bet the
drag coefficient on my CJ is lower than your Yak (or any other CJ-6 for that
matter).
Craig Payne
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Send your dues and contributions to AOPA and EAA.
Ernie
On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Ernest Martinez wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > I think I'd rather read the Fighter Pilot bable.
>
> <sigh> Playing with airplanes is really what life is all about. There is
> no
> higher activity than playing with airplanes.
>
> But we do have a political issue too. For example, I was taught that every
> gunfight involves surviving three things:
>
> 1. the gunfight itself;
> 2. the criminal legal system;
> 3. the civil legal system.
>
> If we want to keep flying not only do we have to survive the flight but we
> have to survive the political system too.
>
> We don't really see it yet but more and more out flying is going to become
> politicized if we want to keep doing it. The masses of people vote. The
> politicians want to get reelected. The politicians will do what will get
> them
> the most votes. They will play to the masses. We aren't the masses. The
> masses
> do not perceive the value in what we do. So how do we keep the politicians
> from voting away our privileges?
>
> And there is no place else to go. I would have said Australia, New
> Zealand, or
> South Africa but all of those places have moved steadily in direction of
> socialism.
>
> So how do we make sure we keep flying?
>
> <sigh> No, I don't have any good answers.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Fully agree with Steve. The driver that can fly his a/c on the limiter in
a slow fight maintaining his nose authority will win the fight only to lose
when the wingman who was hawking the fight guns your brains out. Hence as
Steve says, "Speed is life". See and kill your opponent before he sees you!
So, "if ya aint cheating, you aint winning".
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Steve Dalton <sdalton@goeaston.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 12:47:44 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Hassle
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Dalton" <sdalton@goeaston.net>
>
>
> >>>>>Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com
>
> The Yak-52 bleeds energy faster than the CJ6A does. Now it has more HP
> to put energy back relative to a stock CJ6A but not relative to an
> M14-powered CJ6A. It isn't clear that the Yak-52 is an advantage over a
> stock CJ6A but it is pretty clear that the M14-powered CJ6A has an
> energy advantage over a Yak-52under almost all conditions. (I can't
> think of any situation where the Yak-52has an energy advantage in a
> straight ahead hassle but I don't want to be absolute as someone will
> probably think of a situation.)
>
> So what advantage does the Yak-52 have over the CJ6A? Due to its 7G load
> limit vs. the CJ6As 6G load limit it has a higher instantaneous rate of
> turn. Given that the Yak-52 almost always starts slower than the CJ6A it
> will be turning inside -- initially. But the CJ6A can manage energy
> better. The CJ driver just goes vertical and trades kinetic energy for
> potential. TAS drops so turn radius drops. Now the CJ driver has the
> turn radius AND the energy advantage.
>
> In a knife fight whoever has the airplane that bleeds energy more slowly
> or can sustain energy in a turn is likely to end up the winner. Best
> solution for the Yak-52 drivers? Shoot the CJ6A guy in the back when he
> isn't looking and get out of Dodge. That seems to have worked reasonably
> well for Erich Hartmann and some of the other guys flying behind the
> black crosses.
>
> In the end, the only thing that matters is who's dead and who's
> not.<<<<<
>
> Bryan,
>
> Your comments about energy states are academically correct. You are
> also correct about how best to kill your opponent. The fighter pilot's
> goal is NOT to get into a dogfight, but rather, to shoot the dumbass in
> the back before he sees you. The vast majority of guys who have been
> shot down (by another fighter) in the last 90 years never saw the guy
> who shot them out of the sky.
>
> However, he who wins a knife fight (slow speed fight) is the guy with a
> plane that can maneuver his nose onto the other guy, to employ weapons
> against him. The winner may have much less energy than the loser, but
> the winner's plane was capable of pointing his nose (turning) while the
> loser, with more energy, was not as maneuverable.
>
> For example, a Yak-52 or CJ can easily defeat an F-16 in a dogfight
> where the Yak/CJ has 100 kts and the F-16 has 150 kts. The Yak can
> quickly turn and shoot the F-16, while the F-16 can barely move his
> nose. Trust me, I've been there in an F-16 versus another fighter that
> could point his nose at 150 kts and I lost the fight. Thus the fighter
> pilot's mantra, "Speed is life."
>
> I have flown both the Yak-52 and CJ in dogfights. The Yak-52 is
> slightly more maneuverable in a slow speed fight (I assume this is
> primarily due to the different wing designs). You can turn and point
> the -52 at speeds where the CJ just buffets and doesn't turn worth a
> hoot. So when, as you mentioned, the CJ goes into the vertical the Yak
> pilot just points his nose at the climbing CJ and shoots him. The CJ
> had more energy, but he died...energy isn't everything.
>
> So, the best solution for the Yak-52 pilot is to force the CJ pilot into
> a knife fight where the Yak has the advantage. The CJ pilot should
> avoid getting in a slow speed fight with a Yak. Just like an F-16
> should avoid a slow speed fight with a Mig-21. The Mig has the
> advantage at slow speeds.
>
> Now, having said all that, my experience has been that regardless of
> aircraft types and energy states the BEST PILOT is the guy who usually
> wins. Enjoyed the discussion!
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Dalton
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Race? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
No argument from me. I believe it looking all those tuffs stuck on you
airplane.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 4:01:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: RE: Re: Race?
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> >So Craig, What are you feeding that CJ? Nitro? Or am I smelling Smoke?
> >Doc
> >
> >
> Doc,
>
> The smoke you smell is coming from your cockpit. I have built up a solid
track record of running in races open to the public, with published results
and cheap wall plaques to prove it. I have the same engine as you do, but
I'd bet the drag coefficient on my CJ is lower than your Yak (or any other
CJ-6 for that matter).
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Red Air Fall Fling 14-16 Oct 05 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yakkers planning on attending the Red Air Fall Fling,
Dennis Savarese and myself just finished meeting with the KSEM (Selma) FBO owner.
He said he would charge $0.50 over his cost for his next load of fuel. He is
going to buy another 8000 gal. this coming week. He said he would let me know
what that will cost him. On a positive note, KSEM usually is one of the cheapest
on AV gas in this part of Alabama. My home base 08A (Wetumpka ~ 12 mi north
of MGM) and Clanton also typically have low fuel prices in this region also.
The good news is that they are both within 30 nm of KSEM.
So all that said, we currently have 35 aircraft signed up for the fly-in. I will
send an individual email to all those that said they planned to attend to take
a head count. We are about 1 month out from the event now! That email will
go out this weekend...sometime between the guard's needs.
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Also, you never want to get slow in a phone booth with a Warthog! He'll rip
ya a new one and eat your lunch at the sametime.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 6:30:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Hassle
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Fully agree with Steve. The driver that can fly his a/c on the limiter in
> a slow fight maintaining his nose authority will win the fight only to
lose
> when the wingman who was hawking the fight guns your brains out. Hence as
> Steve says, "Speed is life". See and kill your opponent before he sees
you!
> So, "if ya aint cheating, you aint winning".
> Doc
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Steve Dalton <sdalton@goeaston.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/9/2005 12:47:44 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Hassle
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Dalton" <sdalton@goeaston.net>
> >
> >
> > >>>>>Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com
> >
> > The Yak-52 bleeds energy faster than the CJ6A does. Now it has more HP
> > to put energy back relative to a stock CJ6A but not relative to an
> > M14-powered CJ6A. It isn't clear that the Yak-52 is an advantage over a
> > stock CJ6A but it is pretty clear that the M14-powered CJ6A has an
> > energy advantage over a Yak-52under almost all conditions. (I can't
> > think of any situation where the Yak-52has an energy advantage in a
> > straight ahead hassle but I don't want to be absolute as someone will
> > probably think of a situation.)
> >
> > So what advantage does the Yak-52 have over the CJ6A? Due to its 7G load
> > limit vs. the CJ6As 6G load limit it has a higher instantaneous rate of
> > turn. Given that the Yak-52 almost always starts slower than the CJ6A it
> > will be turning inside -- initially. But the CJ6A can manage energy
> > better. The CJ driver just goes vertical and trades kinetic energy for
> > potential. TAS drops so turn radius drops. Now the CJ driver has the
> > turn radius AND the energy advantage.
> >
> > In a knife fight whoever has the airplane that bleeds energy more slowly
> > or can sustain energy in a turn is likely to end up the winner. Best
> > solution for the Yak-52 drivers? Shoot the CJ6A guy in the back when he
> > isn't looking and get out of Dodge. That seems to have worked reasonably
> > well for Erich Hartmann and some of the other guys flying behind the
> > black crosses.
> >
> > In the end, the only thing that matters is who's dead and who's
> > not.<<<<<
> >
> > Bryan,
> >
> > Your comments about energy states are academically correct. You are
> > also correct about how best to kill your opponent. The fighter pilot's
> > goal is NOT to get into a dogfight, but rather, to shoot the dumbass in
> > the back before he sees you. The vast majority of guys who have been
> > shot down (by another fighter) in the last 90 years never saw the guy
> > who shot them out of the sky.
> >
> > However, he who wins a knife fight (slow speed fight) is the guy with a
> > plane that can maneuver his nose onto the other guy, to employ weapons
> > against him. The winner may have much less energy than the loser, but
> > the winner's plane was capable of pointing his nose (turning) while the
> > loser, with more energy, was not as maneuverable.
> >
> > For example, a Yak-52 or CJ can easily defeat an F-16 in a dogfight
> > where the Yak/CJ has 100 kts and the F-16 has 150 kts. The Yak can
> > quickly turn and shoot the F-16, while the F-16 can barely move his
> > nose. Trust me, I've been there in an F-16 versus another fighter that
> > could point his nose at 150 kts and I lost the fight. Thus the fighter
> > pilot's mantra, "Speed is life."
> >
> > I have flown both the Yak-52 and CJ in dogfights. The Yak-52 is
> > slightly more maneuverable in a slow speed fight (I assume this is
> > primarily due to the different wing designs). You can turn and point
> > the -52 at speeds where the CJ just buffets and doesn't turn worth a
> > hoot. So when, as you mentioned, the CJ goes into the vertical the Yak
> > pilot just points his nose at the climbing CJ and shoots him. The CJ
> > had more energy, but he died...energy isn't everything.
> >
> > So, the best solution for the Yak-52 pilot is to force the CJ pilot into
> > a knife fight where the Yak has the advantage. The CJ pilot should
> > avoid getting in a slow speed fight with a Yak. Just like an F-16
> > should avoid a slow speed fight with a Mig-21. The Mig has the
> > advantage at slow speeds.
> >
> > Now, having said all that, my experience has been that regardless of
> > aircraft types and energy states the BEST PILOT is the guy who usually
> > wins. Enjoyed the discussion!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve Dalton
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | How fast is your Yak 52? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: NapeOne@aol.com
Mine does _130Kts@65%/15_ (mailto:130Kts@65/15) gph
140Kts@72%/18 gph
David H.
Message 32
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| Subject: | How fast is your Yak 52? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: NapeOne@aol.com
Mine does _130Kts@65%/15_ (mailto:130Kts@65/15) gph
140Kts@72%/18 gph
David H.
Message 33
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Weapons employment zone (WEZ), Desired Learning Objective (DLO) and Out of
Controlled Flight (OCF).
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jon Boede <jon@email.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 12:41:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ACM brief
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> I second the motion... anybody care to translate?
>
> Jon
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Well, I cant understand a damn thing these guys are saying half the
time,
> > DLO, WEZ OCF, sounds like VOR's to me. :)
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 9/9/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >>
> >> Ernest Martinez wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > Is this english????
> >>
> >> Yeah, and it makes one hell of a lot of sense.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> >> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> >> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >>
> >> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
.
> >> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | How fast is your Yak 52? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Pretty much the same with mine, Dav. You still coming to SEM in OCT?
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: <NapeOne@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2005 7:17:17 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: How fast is your Yak 52?
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: NapeOne@aol.com
>
> Mine does _130Kts@65%/15_ (mailto:130Kts@65/15) gph
> 140Kts@72%/18 gph
> David H.
>
>
Message 35
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|
keith.goolsby@eds.com, gaf127enl@msn.com, MDSHELLEY@aol.com,
yakjock@msn.com, walterfricke@yahoo.com, Rdorsey777@cs.com,
dabear@damned.org, TCalloway@hangar-d.com, mason.t@worldnet.att.net,
wpairprt@tdstelme.net, radialpower@cox.net, KILOUSMC@aol.com,
FamilyGage@aol.com, rvfltd@televar.com, cd001633@mindspring.com,
ernest.martinez@oracle.com, FOUGAPILOT@hotmail.com, N23GD@yahoo.com,
jtobul@tobul.com, tormentor34@netzero.net, JandEFinley@comcast.net
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Troops,
The Collings Foundation is looking for a A&P to work on the bombers.
We want very dedicated people.
The job is 7 days a week for 10 months of the year.
You will be on the road the whole 10 months
The days are 12 hours long.
You must be a nonsmoker (these airplanes are priceless).
The pay is negotiable. (Don't ask me. I have no idea.)
You will receive meal allowance each day and room. You usually share a room
with one of the other volunteers or pilots.
Your primary job will be the care and repair of one of the two rarest
aircraft in the world.
A B-17G and B-24J. (Most likely you will be working the B-24J but you may
help the other mechanic and he you when needed)
85% of the work is engine (W1820 and PW1830-65) with repair on other
systems, hydraulic and electric.
You will also act as flight mechanic on all flights.
The airplanes make an average of 140 stops in 38 states during the 10 months.
You will know where every Applebees and Hooters is in the US.
You will meet the best, brightest, and even famous people around the US.
You will be interviewed and photographed by TV and newspapers more than you
care for.
And you will answer the same questions a million times.
Above all you must be respectful of every veteran (and the idiots too).
You will be one of the very, very, few people in the world doing this job.
And believe me the troops working there as well as Rob Collings are picky,
and you must be a dedicated Warbird nut.
(You can see why we want dedicated people).
You call me about what's its like "on the line". (386-467-3313 home) or call
the
Collings Foundation, in Stow,Ma. at 978-562-9182 for the pertinent info.
They make the decisions.
For the right guy/gal this is heaven.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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