Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: desser tubes (Cpayne)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: CO levels (Daniel Fortin)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: CO levels (Rob Mortara)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: desser tubes (Desmor944@aol.com)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: CJ Excessive Oil Leaking (Roger Kemp)
6. 06:53 AM - "O2" Systems (Jeff Linebaugh)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: CJ Excessive Oil Leaking (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 07:49 AM - Re: desser tubes (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 07:53 AM - Re: CO levels (Roger Kemp)
10. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: desser tubes (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 08:04 AM - Re: "O2" Systems (Roger Kemp)
12. 09:54 AM - [PLEASE READ] Matronics Upgrade Today 9/11/05 Sunday! (Matt Dralle)
13. 10:13 AM - Re: "O2" Systems (DaBear)
14. 10:39 AM - Re: "O2" Systems (Roger Kemp)
15. 11:53 PM - Re: "O2" Systems (Brian Lloyd)
16. 11:53 PM - Re: "O2" Systems (DaBear)
17. 11:55 PM - 911 Sunday (Craig Payne)
18. 11:55 PM - Re: (ART)
19. 11:57 PM - Re: Race? (Craig Payne)
20. 11:57 PM - FW: Fresh "RAM" air to breath. (Frank Haertlein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: desser tubes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
>Anybody have any luck with a particular Desser tube for the mains and nose
>on a CJ?
>
>
Yes, I've had bad luck with the desser nose tube. It's too large and wrinkled.
When I bought this up to Desser reps at SNF, they got defensive and scoffed at
my problem. I still have the tube; replaced it with the Chinese version. The
Main tubes from desser were OK, just as the recaps are.
If Desser ever has the same problem with certified A/C, and an accident ensues
and they handle it the same way as did me, that's when the lawyers fix the problem.
Craig Payne
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Rob,
Bring you CO detector to KGED, we'll have a chance to test a few more
airplanes there. Couple of Yak too.
Dan
>From: cjpilot710@aol.com
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: CO levels
>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:54:58 EDT
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 9/10/2005 6:51:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>viperdoc@mindspring.com writes:
>
>I am interested in this CO converter/scrubber.
>How it might be installed in a CJ-6.
>What power does it need and how big is it.?
>I'd like to get cost between it and a supplemental oxygen system
>installation.
>
>I looked at oxygen systems at OSH this year.
>I thought the units (small ones) would easily fit in the CJ.
>With my WW2 RAF flight helmet and leather Ox mask it would be real cool.
>I'd like to use that mask instead of that canular thingy sticking in my
>nose. (yes I know its very efficient but So un-fighter pilot looking!)
>Of course there is the refill issue to contend with. I've never had to
>deal
>with refilling oxygen system.
>
>The other line of attack is airframe mods to reduce the levels. KISS
>first
>and foremost. Rob's readings are a bit of a surprise to me. I normally
>fly
>with my canopy opened slightly and the front vent open ALWAYS. I've felt
>this gave me cleaner air as well keeping the cockpit cooler. However his
>readings show that CO is higher with canopy open than closed. Like Doc,
>I'd like
>to see one or two other tests on different aircraft to verify this. Also
>tests
>would need to be conducted again after mods.
>
> :-) If someone would lend me one of those CO readers, I perform the
>test
>in my airplane. :-{
>
>Jim "Pappy"Goolsby
>
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>Sorry, I misspelled the product name for this wire mesh convertor. Metulit
>is the correct spelling. Problem is it needs thermal energy to drive the
>reaction that converts CO to CO2. The problem is you now need a way to
>eliminate the CO2. That can be accomplished by scrubbing the air with soda
>lime (commonly used in anesthesia circuits.
>Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/10/2005 3:54:53 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: CO levels
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Good Work
> > Now we only need this to be accomplished in a random double blind study
>to
> > with out a doubt confirm that we have a problem. It could just be your
> > airplane. No all kidding aside, we are not trying to meet the Blue
>Cross/
> > Blue Shield or United Health Care standard for denial of reimbursement
>for
> > services already provided. We are trying to save lives from an
>insidious
> > killer in our presence.
> > A problem does exist and we need to come up with a cure. Metullite is
>the
> > only substance that when placed inline with a filtration system will
>break
> > CO to CO2. That (CO2) then has to be scrubbed. That can be done through
> a
> > Soda Lime canister down stream to the metullite. You are still going to
> > have to introduce the aviators mask to the system attached to a CRU-60
>and
> > using a permanently mounted regulator. Can be done, but will not be
>real
> > cheap.
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Rob Mortara <rob@robinhill.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 9/10/2005 3:33:26 PM
> > > Subject: Yak-List: CO levels
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have tested today CO levels front at face level results as follows
> > >
> > > CO levels Chang 21740
> > > 9/10/2005
> > >
> > > Taxi canopy closed 11 ppm
> > > Taxi canopy open 18 ppm
> > >
> > >
> > > En route climb 680 2000 rpm canopy closed rich 22ppm
> > > En route climb 680 2000 rpm canopy closed lean 12 ppm
> > > En route 680 2000 rpm canopy open rich 46 ppm
> > > En route 680 2000 rpm canopy open lean 30 ppm
> > > No change in levels with front vent open
> > > En route lean cruise canopy closed 4ppm
> > > Enroute Rich Cruise canopy closed 7ppm
> > >
> > > Landing canopy closed 50 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Pervious testing by Phil Cogan showed levels approaching 200 ppm with
> > smoke
> > > on
> > >
> > > Marty and Mort have seen levels in the rear seat during acro 245 ppm
> > >
> > > It appears leaning helps a lot and opening the canopy increases CO
> > > substantially
> > >
> > > Testing done with a minimax-pro CO detector at face level- I would
>like
>to
> > > document rear occupant CO levels and formation levels.
> > >
> > > ROB
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
I was planning to bring it. I think Tim also has one with a digital read out
I will ask him. Also it should be a point of discussion during the weekend.
I also was surprised about the increase in CO levels with the Canopy open.
This was also confirmed by tests that Phil has done. Some of the weather
stripping is off the canopies in our airplane. I would like to replace them
and re run the test. I suspect the rear is much worse.
Rob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: desser tubes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Desmor944@aol.com
Jon
Quite a few years ago, I bought a tire and tube from Desser for my CJ and
found that the valve stem was rather short and not in the correct location,
causing the tube to be twisted. I did not install it and have kept the tube for
emergency use only.
A couple of years ago, I replaced both main tires and tubes on a Yak-52 and
everything fit just fine, so I assume Desser has corrected the valve stem
location. My only complaint about those tubes was that the valve cores were
extremely deep so I had to try several air chucks before I could inflate the tubes.
No complaints about the tires, I am getting very good life from them.
Rich
Message 5
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| Subject: | CJ Excessive Oil Leaking |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I do not have any experience with the CJ engine, but cleaning the oil check
(reducing) valve on my YAK and the other 3 in my hanger has solved the
problem for now. We did mine about 6 months ago. A quart of MMO in the oil
tank seems to help also. I add the MMO when I'm about 3 to 4 hours from
changing the oil. Dennis has us changing our oil every 25 hours. Now that
means that you are forced to inspect the engine compartment with the
cowlings off on a regular basis.
But back to the question, cleaning the valve does help to prevent the
leakage and you do not add another system that could fail to the
operational loop.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Shanks <shankeroid@comcast.net>
> To: Yak List <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/10/2005 11:10:44 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ Excessive Oil Leaking
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@comcast.net>
>
> Rather than purchase an oil tank shutoff valve system for the Huosai,
has anyone tried to actually fix the problem of excessive oil leaking
(mostly through the exhaust) when the aircraft sits for a while? Ours has
a tendency to leak-down an average of one quart per week out the stacks.
> I talked with Bill Blackwell who seems to think the oil pressure
reducing valve is allowing oil to leak through and probably needs to be
cleaned. Has anyone done this with any success?
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim Shanks
> shankeroid@comcast.net
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Folks...just an idea....
What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem. Question.do
we really need "aviators O2"?
Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable air.
Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba bottle,
with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
source of air to a mask? Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than using
aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be good
enough to fly with?
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CJ Excessive Oil Leaking |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
You are and so is Bill, 100% correct. Remove the reducing valve/shut off
valve in the oil pump, resurface it and most importantly check the spring to
make sure it is not bent broken. A bent spring will cause the valve not to
seat properly when the engine shuts down and the oil pressure in the pump is
eliminated. I have seen several springs that were slightly bent or
stretched out of shape.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Excessive Oil Leaking
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shanks" <shankeroid@comcast.net>
>
> Rather than purchase an oil tank shutoff valve system for the Huosai,
> has anyone tried to actually fix the problem of excessive oil leaking
> (mostly through the exhaust) when the aircraft sits for a while? Ours has
> a tendency to leak-down an average of one quart per week out the stacks.
> I talked with Bill Blackwell who seems to think the oil pressure
> reducing valve is allowing oil to leak through and probably needs to be
> cleaned. Has anyone done this with any success?
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim Shanks
> shankeroid@comcast.net
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: desser tubes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
They only have one tube that fits the 500 x 150 main tires. They are listed
as 500-150 with TR-67 valve for the mains and 380/400-150 with TR-67 valve
for the nose wheel. All the aforementioned assumes you have the stock
tires.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Yak-List: desser tubes
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Anybody have any luck with a particular Desser tube for the mains and nose
> on a CJ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
>
>
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Pappy,
That Metalit system is the system that is on your catalytic converter in
your car. The catalyst requires heat to become effective. That is not to
practical for our aircraft. Another technology out there is nanogold
filters. Supposedly when CO is exposed to gold an endothermic recation
occures converting CO to CO2. That work is being done in Australia. You
still have to scrub the CO2. As I said before, it could be done with Soda
Lime. All of these agents have to be disposed of over time. Because of all
of the fear of coorperate spying I guess, noone wants to answer my
questions of how long do these compounds last.
I may have found a cheap cold converter yesterday when I was searching the
web. A company in Ohio (one of those small mom and pop shops) is making
masks for firefighters working with woodland fires. It is supposedly
effective for 8-12 hours. I am trying to track down the type of catalyst.
The company is called Whiffs. Suppose you could get their filter pads and
just place it in the mask that will increase the work of breathing. This
stuff is only effective at filtering out 55% of the CO though.
As for using nasal cannulas for O2 delivery, don't if the main issue is to
prevent CO poisining. The nasal cannula does increase the %O2 in the
hypophyarnyx at altitude. The most a nasal cannula can increase %O2 at sea
level is 30%. That is why at 25,000 feet with an O2 cannula you are
breathing the equivalent of room air @ 21%.
The problem with CO and an O2 nasal cannula is that you are still breathing
in ambient air. You are still sucking in the contaminated air. With the O2
cannula there is a leak around the cannula in the nostrils and you are
still breathing the cabin air. The only way to stop that is by wearing a
tight fitting aviator's mask. That mask that we use in the jets
(fighters). To prevent entraining ambient air from the cabin, you have to
have a mask with a good seal. The nasal cannula will help prevent hypoxia
from reduced O2 at altitude but will not prevent hypoxia from CO posioning.
CO has a 200 times affinity for Hemoglobin as compaired to that of O2. It
forms a tighter bond with the Fe (iron) molecule in the helix of the
hemoglobin (of which there are 4 of those Fe binding sites in every red
blood cell). Therefore it takes 8 to 12 hours on room air to reverse the
effects of CO posioning. You can speed that process up by increasing the
concentration of inspired O2 by increasing the %O2 inspired with a 100%
rebreathing mask (in truth though, you are only getting 60% O2
concentreation in the lungs) or by placing the patient in a recompression
chamber (hyperbaric chamber). That difference is due to a thing called dead
space in the airways ( for the rebreather mask). TMFI I know.
I hopefully will have some more info on the cold catalyst on Monday.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/10/2005 10:55:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: CO levels
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 9/10/2005 6:51:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> viperdoc@mindspring.com writes:
>
> I am interested in this CO converter/scrubber.
> How it might be installed in a CJ-6.
> What power does it need and how big is it.?
> I'd like to get cost between it and a supplemental oxygen system
> installation.
>
> I looked at oxygen systems at OSH this year.
> I thought the units (small ones) would easily fit in the CJ.
> With my WW2 RAF flight helmet and leather Ox mask it would be real cool.
> I'd like to use that mask instead of that canular thingy sticking in my
> nose. (yes I know its very efficient but So un-fighter pilot looking!)
> Of course there is the refill issue to contend with. I've never had to
deal
> with refilling oxygen system.
>
> The other line of attack is airframe mods to reduce the levels. KISS
first
> and foremost. Rob's readings are a bit of a surprise to me. I normally
fly
> with my canopy opened slightly and the front vent open ALWAYS. I've
felt
> this gave me cleaner air as well keeping the cockpit cooler. However
his
> readings show that CO is higher with canopy open than closed. Like Doc,
I'd like
> to see one or two other tests on different aircraft to verify this. Also
tests
> would need to be conducted again after mods.
>
> :-) If someone would lend me one of those CO readers, I perform the
test
> in my airplane. :-{
>
> Jim "Pappy"Goolsby
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Sorry, I misspelled the product name for this wire mesh convertor.
Metulit
> is the correct spelling. Problem is it needs thermal energy to drive the
> reaction that converts CO to CO2. The problem is you now need a way to
> eliminate the CO2. That can be accomplished by scrubbing the air with
soda
> lime (commonly used in anesthesia circuits.
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 9/10/2005 3:54:53 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: CO levels
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Good Work
> > Now we only need this to be accomplished in a random double blind
study to
> > with out a doubt confirm that we have a problem. It could just be your
> > airplane. No all kidding aside, we are not trying to meet the Blue
Cross/
> > Blue Shield or United Health Care standard for denial of reimbursement
for
> > services already provided. We are trying to save lives from an
insidious
> > killer in our presence.
> > A problem does exist and we need to come up with a cure. Metullite is
the
> > only substance that when placed inline with a filtration system will
break
> > CO to CO2. That (CO2) then has to be scrubbed. That can be done
through a
> > Soda Lime canister down stream to the metullite. You are still going to
> > have to introduce the aviators mask to the system attached to a CRU-60
and
> > using a permanently mounted regulator. Can be done, but will not be
real
> > cheap.
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Rob Mortara <rob@robinhill.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 9/10/2005 3:33:26 PM
> > > Subject: Yak-List: CO levels
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Mortara" <rob@robinhill.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have tested today CO levels front at face level results as follows
> > >
> > > CO levels Chang 21740
> > > 9/10/2005
> > >
> > > Taxi canopy closed 11 ppm
> > > Taxi canopy open 18 ppm
> > >
> > >
> > > En route climb 680 2000 rpm canopy closed rich 22ppm
> > > En route climb 680 2000 rpm canopy closed lean 12 ppm
> > > En route 680 2000 rpm canopy open rich 46 ppm
> > > En route 680 2000 rpm canopy open lean 30 ppm
> > > No change in levels with front vent open
> > > En route lean cruise canopy closed 4ppm
> > > Enroute Rich Cruise canopy closed 7ppm
> > >
> > > Landing canopy closed 50 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Pervious testing by Phil Cogan showed levels approaching 200 ppm with
> > smoke
> > > on
> > >
> > > Marty and Mort have seen levels in the rear seat during acro 245 ppm
> > >
> > > It appears leaning helps a lot and opening the canopy increases CO
> > > substantially
> > >
> > > Testing done with a minimax-pro CO detector at face level- I would
like
> to
> > > document rear occupant CO levels and formation levels.
> > >
> > > ROB
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: desser tubes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Craig,
What size tube did they send you? The reason I ask is because I recently
purchased two complete sets and the nose wheel tubes were physically smaller
than the stock 400/150 tubes (Chinese or Russian). They were 380/400-150
and they list them on their web site as 380/400-150 and in parenthesis as
(350-135), which is probably more accurate than the 380/400-150. Bottom
line is they did fit.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cpayne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: desser tubes
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>>Anybody have any luck with a particular Desser tube for the mains and nose
>>on a CJ?
>>
>>
> Yes, I've had bad luck with the desser nose tube. It's too large and
> wrinkled. When I bought this up to Desser reps at SNF, they got defensive
> and scoffed at my problem. I still have the tube; replaced it with the
> Chinese version. The Main tubes from desser were OK, just as the recaps
> are.
>
> If Desser ever has the same problem with certified A/C, and an accident
> ensues and they handle it the same way as did me, that's when the lawyers
> fix the problem.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I agree with Lindog. The scuba system is the topic that I broached in the
very beginning of this thread. It is an additional wt problem. A pony tank
will give about 40 min of clean air and is light enough. The back
instrument bay can be fitted with the same bayonett calmps that are used on
bouyancy compenasator vest (BC's for the divers in the crowd). You are
still going to have to have a high pressure manifold and a second stage
regulator.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics. com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/11/2005 8:53:37 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: "O2" Systems
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
<jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> Folks...just an idea....
>
> What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem.
Question.do
> we really need "aviators O2"?
>
> Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable
air.
> Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
> hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
>
> Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba
bottle,
> with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
> Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
> source of air to a mask? Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than using
> aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be good
> enough to fly with?
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Matronics Upgrade Today 9/11/05 Sunday! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I will be implementing some major upgrades to the Matronics
infrastructure today, Sunday 09/11/2005. During the upgrade, web
services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and the
Subscription Page will not be available. Additionally, incoming and
outgoing List Email will not be processed during this time, although
no actual email should be lost only queued for later delivery.
This is a rather substantial upgrade and includes moving all network,
computer, and UPS equipment to a new systems rack. I hope to have
everything back on line by 8PM PDT tonight or sooner if all goes well.
This is an awesome upgrade that I've been wanting to do for a long
time, and should help increase availability of the Matronics systems
to near 99.99%!
Thank you for your patience!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Jeff,
For use at high altitude for breathing rather than 02 systems? I've
thought about this for a while now since I already have the Scott bottle
and regulator in the CJ. The Scott system will last from 30 min to 1.5
hours for one person depending on breathing rate and size of the
bottle. However, I don't want to charge my breathing air system every
hour or so when I can use pure 02 and turn down the rate of the 02
system and get hours out of a similar sized bottle.
Now if you are talking in place of eliminating the CO2 in the cockpit,
I'd rather get rid of the CO2 than to cover up the problem.
DaBear
Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
>Folks...just an idea....
>
>What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem. Question.do
>we really need "aviators O2"?
>
>Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable air.
>Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
>hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
>
>Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba bottle,
>with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
>Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
>source of air to a mask? Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than using
>aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be good
>enough to fly with?
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
DeBaer,
CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a problem, but CO ( carbon monoxide) is the real
problem. There is no good answer to solving this yet. I am searching for a
KISS way that is not break the bank expensive.
I am interested in the mainfolds you used in you Scott system and what mask
are you using? Can you send me photos of the system and some info?
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/11/2005 12:13:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: "O2" Systems
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>
> Jeff,
>
> For use at high altitude for breathing rather than 02 systems? I've
> thought about this for a while now since I already have the Scott bottle
> and regulator in the CJ. The Scott system will last from 30 min to 1.5
> hours for one person depending on breathing rate and size of the
> bottle. However, I don't want to charge my breathing air system every
> hour or so when I can use pure 02 and turn down the rate of the 02
> system and get hours out of a similar sized bottle.
>
> Now if you are talking in place of eliminating the CO2 in the cockpit,
> I'd rather get rid of the CO2 than to cover up the problem.
>
> DaBear
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
<jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Folks...just an idea....
> >
> >What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem.
Question.do
> >we really need "aviators O2"?
> >
> >Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable
air.
> >Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
> >hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
> >
> >Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba
bottle,
> >with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
> >Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
> >source of air to a mask? Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than
using
> >aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be
good
> >enough to fly with?
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
> What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem. Question.do
> we really need "aviators O2"?
No.
> Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable air.
> Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
> hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
Yes.
> Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba bottle,
> with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
> Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
> source of air to a mask?
Yes.
> Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than using
> aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be good
> enough to fly with?
BTW, you don't need ABO (aviator's breathing oxygen). Welding O2, ABO, and
medical O2 are now all the same stuff. So if you want to get O2, just get
welding O2 and use that.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Doc,
Yes, I meant the CO problem we are having not CO2. And sorry for the
confusion, but I'm only using the Scott bottle as a backup for the
standard air system we have. It is my backup bottle if I leave the air on.
DaBear
Roger Kemp wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>DeBaer,
>CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a problem, but CO ( carbon monoxide) is the real
>problem. There is no good answer to solving this yet. I am searching for a
>KISS way that is not break the bank expensive.
>I am interested in the mainfolds you used in you Scott system and what mask
>are you using? Can you send me photos of the system and some info?
>Doc
>
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>Date: 9/11/2005 12:13:08 PM
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: "O2" Systems
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>For use at high altitude for breathing rather than 02 systems? I've
>>thought about this for a while now since I already have the Scott bottle
>>and regulator in the CJ. The Scott system will last from 30 min to 1.5
>>hours for one person depending on breathing rate and size of the
>>bottle. However, I don't want to charge my breathing air system every
>>hour or so when I can use pure 02 and turn down the rate of the 02
>>system and get hours out of a similar sized bottle.
>>
>>Now if you are talking in place of eliminating the CO2 in the cockpit,
>>I'd rather get rid of the CO2 than to cover up the problem.
>>
>>DaBear
>>
>>
>>Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
>>>
>>>
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
A quiet Sept 9th, much different than 4 years ago and I'm grateful for that. Partaking
of the freedoms so many have struggled for, I flew with my RV buddies
for breakfast. With my co-owner and mother of my children in the back seat of
an RV-4 with my camera, we did some more pics of tufts; in cruise this time.
The pics are scary, lots of turbulence along the fuselage in front of the wing.
Exhaust fumes easily migrate into the boundary layer underneath and along the
fuselage. On the way back my spouse got enough fumes in the back seat to get
a headache...and it wasn't even bedtime :
)
Sooo, I've got fixes in the works for the rear cockpit, aft fuselage and exh stack
extensions. My experiments with cowl air flow should have application to CJ
and Yak alike for better flow control. (less drag too). Still lots of testing
to do but I'd really like to see a coordinated effort within our community to
address the CO problem.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List: |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ART <art79@cwnet.com>
I JUST INSTALLED A REBUILT AND UPGRADED A14 OXYGEN REGULATOR IDENTICAL TO THE ONES
USED IN WW2 AIRCRAFT. IT USES A SCOTT 38 CU FT TANK AND VALVE WHICH TEE'S OFF TO
A
REMOTE FILL WITH THE OTHER LINE GOING TO THE REGULATOR. I INSTALLED THE TANK
BEHIND THE FRONT SEAT ON THE HORIZONTAL PANEL WHERE ALL THE CHINESE RADIO STUFF
USED TO BE. FROM THE REGULATOR IS A HOSE GOING TO A CRU-60 QUICK DISCONECT THEN
ON
UP THROUGH ANOTHER HOSE TO THE MBU-5 OR MBU-12 MASK WHICH EVER YOU PREFER. THE
MASK THEN SNAPS NICELY INTO YOUR HELMET. THE SPECIFICATION SHEET FOR THE A14
DILUTER DEMAND REGULATOR STATES 5 CU FT PER HOUR FROM SEA LEVEL TO 20,000 OR SO.
THAT SHOULD GIVE 7 HRS OF OXYGEN FOR 1 GUY. THE COST HERE AT HAYWARD FOR THE TRUCK
TO DRIVE OVER AND FILL THE TANK IS 65.00. THE TANK WEIGHS ABOUT 22 POUND FULL WITH
BRACKETS ETC. JUST INSTALLED IT AND HAVE TO RUN 1 MORE LINE. HOPE IT WORKS.
INCIDENTALLY THIS STUFF REALLY LOOKS KOOL IN THE CJ..ART
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:38 , Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> sent:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>DeBaer,
>CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a problem, but CO ( carbon monoxide) is the real
>problem. There is no good answer to solving this yet. I am searching for a
>KISS way that is not break the bank expensive.
>I am interested in the mainfolds you used in you Scott system and what mask
>are you using? Can you send me photos of the system and some info?
>Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: DaBear dabear@damned.org>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 9/11/2005 12:13:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: "O2" Systems
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear dabear@damned.org>
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> For use at high altitude for breathing rather than 02 systems? I've
>> thought about this for a while now since I already have the Scott bottle
>> and regulator in the CJ. The Scott system will last from 30 min to 1.5
>> hours for one person depending on breathing rate and size of the
>> bottle. However, I don't want to charge my breathing air system every
>> hour or so when I can use pure 02 and turn down the rate of the 02
>> system and get hours out of a similar sized bottle.
>>
>> Now if you are talking in place of eliminating the CO2 in the cockpit,
>> I'd rather get rid of the CO2 than to cover up the problem.
>>
>> DaBear
>>
>>
>> Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
>>
>> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
>jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>> >
>> >Folks...just an idea....
>> >
>> >What we really want is breathable air to avoid the CO problem.
>Question.do
>> >we really need "aviators O2"?
>> >
>> >Firefighters use straight compressed air as their source of breathable
>air.
>> >Assuming that we are staying at lower altitudes, and not trying to fight
>> >hypoxia, wouldn't compressed air work?
>> >
>> >Just about all of us have sources for compressed air...be it a scuba
>bottle,
>> >with schrader fittings, or something resembling the fire fighters set up.
>> >Would it not be possible to just put in a scuba bottle and use that as a
>> >source of air to a mask? Sure would be a heck of a lot cheaper than
>using
>> >aviators O2"....if it is good enough to fight a fire with would it be
>good
>> >enough to fly with?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
>
>Come to REDSTAR in May 2006 and you can pick from the 9-12 Yak 50's to race.
>All are on the faster West Coast at sea level. Some can even go 5 hours at top
>speed even.....at 140+ knots.
140+ knots... better find another 40.
Someone is sponsoring a race? One with a defined course, independent timers and
cash prizes? So far I have only dined on spam; like 31 flavors of Beechcraft,
the LoPresti Mooney, loads of Comanches (but not the 400), and even some SF260's.
Perhaps some Yak for lunch is OK, but what's in it as an incentive?
Do I hear prize money here? It's a long expensive trip from FL, I could use some
easy pickings to pay the bills.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | FW: Fresh "RAM" air to breath. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
If you're going to use a military type face mask to breath with then why
not plumb the air line out the front of the aircraft? For example, I
bypassed my heat-muff so I get air straight into the cockpit from the
front scoop. I don't have a facemask connected up this way but it would
seem to be an easy mod. Both front and rear could be supplied fresh ram
to breath. YMMV Frank N9110M YAK-52 L71
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