Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - CO - fixing the problem (Cpayne)
2. 04:58 AM - Funny (Daniel Fortin)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: CO - fixing the problem (Mark Williamson)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: CO - fixing the problem (Roger Kemp)
5. 05:33 AM - Lamar FAST Clinic (Aviatr@aol.com)
6. 06:04 AM - B & C Alternator and Blast tubes (Jeff Linebaugh)
7. 06:16 AM - CJ Primer (Jeff Linebaugh)
8. 06:29 AM - Re: CJ Primer (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 07:06 AM - CJ Primer and Fuel Pump (Jeff Linebaugh)
10. 07:49 AM - Re: CJ Primer and Fuel Pump (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Funny (Brian Lloyd)
12. 09:36 AM - Re: CJ Primer (Walter Lannon)
13. 10:38 AM - Re: Funny (Roger Kemp)
14. 10:57 AM - Re: Funny (Brian Lloyd)
15. 12:55 PM - Test (Jay Land)
16. 02:20 PM - Re: Conversions (Jim Ivey)
17. 02:55 PM - New RPA Prop Flag (ByronMFox@AOL.COM)
18. 05:14 PM - Conversion Calculator (Frank Haertlein)
19. 05:48 PM - Re: "O2" Systems (Ron Davis)
20. 05:52 PM - Re: "O2" Systems (Ron Davis)
21. 05:59 PM - Re: Funny (Ron Davis)
22. 07:25 PM - Re: "O2" Systems (Roger Kemp)
23. 07:37 PM - Re: New RPA Prop Flag (Roger Kemp)
24. 08:26 PM - N444YK (SWP013@aol.com)
25. 08:26 PM - Conversion Calculator Zip File to download (Frank Haertlein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CO - fixing the problem |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Interested Yakkers,
Within our modest flying fraternity (with a few sorority sisters too), we have
a wealth of expertise to minimize the risk of CO ingestion by aircrews. We have
aeromedical experts, A&P's, students of aerodynamics, miltary jocks, ATP's,
gearheads and tin men of every persuasion. Why not hold a "breakout session" on
the subject during some downtime at Selma?
Subjects to review:
- What has already been done to fix the problem?
- What fixes are still required?
- What kind of experiments need to be done to test the fixes?
- What are sources and costs of fixes?
- How do we go about organizing the "whodowhat"?
I assume that both the CJ and Yak's suffer from the same problem symptoms, this
also need to be verified. If WE don't fix this, I'm fearful that if "something"
happens to focus FAA attention on us...they will find a fix.
Craig Payne
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Funny how just a year ago we, as a community, were so worried about
radiation poisoning that we talked for hours about the best way to solve
this potential severe problem. Now we are going through the same discussion
about CO in the cockpit. Funny that's all.
Did anyone ever come with a real conclusion to the radiation issue?
D
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CO - fixing the problem |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
craig's made a good point. but we should also not assume that it is a
yak/cj problem. i didn't measure any appreciable levels of co in my stock
yak.
and before installing an o2 or air system you might want to consider what
happens if and when you decide to sell the aircraft. "it's a great plane
but you have to breath from a mask when you fly it!" or explaining to your
passengers that they're flying in a co rich environment (i wouldn't take
that ride). or the insurance company if you need to make a claim... better
to just fix the problem.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Interested Yakkers,
>
> Within our modest flying fraternity (with a few sorority sisters too), we
> have a wealth of expertise to minimize the risk of CO ingestion by
> aircrews. We have aeromedical experts, A&P's, students of aerodynamics,
> miltary jocks, ATP's, gearheads and tin men of every persuasion. Why not
> hold a "breakout session" on the subject during some downtime at Selma?
>
> Subjects to review:
>
> - What has already been done to fix the problem?
> - What fixes are still required?
> - What kind of experiments need to be done to test the fixes?
> - What are sources and costs of fixes?
> - How do we go about organizing the "whodowhat"?
>
> I assume that both the CJ and Yak's suffer from the same problem symptoms,
> this also need to be verified. If WE don't fix this, I'm fearful that if
> "something" happens to focus FAA attention on us...they will find a fix.
>
> Craig Payne
Message 4
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| Subject: | CO - fixing the problem |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
agree with all. KSEM is a start.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/13/2005 6:37:40 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: CO - fixing the problem
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Interested Yakkers,
>
> Within our modest flying fraternity (with a few sorority sisters too), we
have a wealth of expertise to minimize the risk of CO ingestion by
aircrews. We have aeromedical experts, A&P's, students of aerodynamics,
miltary jocks, ATP's, gearheads and tin men of every persuasion. Why not
hold a "breakout session" on the subject during some downtime at Selma?
>
> Subjects to review:
>
> - What has already been done to fix the problem?
> - What fixes are still required?
> - What kind of experiments need to be done to test the fixes?
> - What are sources and costs of fixes?
> - How do we go about organizing the "whodowhat"?
>
> I assume that both the CJ and Yak's suffer from the same problem
symptoms, this also need to be verified. If WE don't fix this, I'm fearful
that if "something" happens to focus FAA attention on us...they will find a
fix.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Lamar FAST Clinic |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Aviatr@aol.com
Attention all RPA Members:
Only one week remaining until the start of the 2005 South Central FAST
Clinic and Fly-in. I want to extend an invitation to all those who have not yet
registered for this event. I am currently expecting about 20 participants
including 2 check pilots and several instructors. If you need some recurrent
formation training or would just like to spend a week with the best pilots on
the
planet stop by and see us.
I want to extend a public thank you to our sponsors Cannon Aviation
Insurance and Lamar Flying Service.
If you would like more information please contact Scott McMillan
_aviatr@aol.com_ (mailto:aviatr@aol.com)
303-877-7607 cell
KONG
Message 6
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"yak-list@matronics. com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | B & C Alternator and Blast tubes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Jim,
When we did the M14P conversion on the CJ, we put the B & C Alternator on it
Love it!
I was curious about the need for cooling air for the alternator, and so we
called the man... He said that there is NO need for a blast tube for
cooling the B & C alternator....and that in our "oily" environment it may
actually cause problems ingesting oily air...
FWIW....
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
OK... you Yak 52 guys skip this one....(the CJ and Yak 52 fuel pumps and
primers are totally different)
Has anyone had the primer in their CJ "hydraulic lock"? While priming for
start and on the downstroke, the primer stopped going down as if the fuel
check valve wouldn't permit any fuel to go past it...
Just curious if anybody had faced the problem before delving in to it....
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
From a Yak guy ----- It can happen in the 52 as well. If one shuts off the
fuel using the FIRE handle and forgets to turn it back on, when you pump the
primer and build up an adequate amount of pressure in the system, there is
so much back pressure that you can no longer push the primer pump in. And
yes, if the fuel check valve in the 52 fails, it can also cause the same
problem.
I believe if you check the fuel pumps, they are virtually identical and may
also be interchangeable. That's not to say the fuel system is the same.
But I am pretty darn sure the fuel pumps are the same.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> OK... you Yak 52 guys skip this one....(the CJ and Yak 52 fuel pumps and
> primers are totally different)
>
> Has anyone had the primer in their CJ "hydraulic lock"? While priming
> for
> start and on the downstroke, the primer stopped going down as if the fuel
> check valve wouldn't permit any fuel to go past it...
>
> Just curious if anybody had faced the problem before delving in to it....
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
>
>
Message 9
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"Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
| Subject: | CJ Primer and Fuel Pump |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Dennis,
The fuel pump I was referring to was the manual fuel pump, not the engine
driven pump...and my experience is that they are very different. The Yak 52
uses the same handle for both priming and pumping, depending on the way it
is turned, correct?
On the CJ, the manual fuel pump is a "wobble" pump located on the right side
console with a long handle that is pumped forward and aft to make pressure.
The primer is separate handle, a plunger type, similar to the Yak primer,
put is only single action, single function.
The CJ primer system is different also in that it uses an independent fuel
line that bypasses the firewall fuel shutoff, and supplies fuel directly to
the intake manifold. Having the firewall shutoff will not affect the CJ
primer...Thanks for the suggestion though...!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CJ Primer and Fuel Pump |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Agree 100% Jeff. I misinterpreted which fuel pump you were referring to.
In fuel pump-eez language, to me it meant the engine driven fuel pump. But
we're on the same page now.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Primer and Fuel Pump
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis,
>
> The fuel pump I was referring to was the manual fuel pump, not the engine
> driven pump...and my experience is that they are very different. The Yak
> 52
> uses the same handle for both priming and pumping, depending on the way it
> is turned, correct?
>
> On the CJ, the manual fuel pump is a "wobble" pump located on the right
> side
> console with a long handle that is pumped forward and aft to make
> pressure.
> The primer is separate handle, a plunger type, similar to the Yak primer,
> put is only single action, single function.
>
> The CJ primer system is different also in that it uses an independent fuel
> line that bypasses the firewall fuel shutoff, and supplies fuel directly
> to
> the intake manifold. Having the firewall shutoff will not affect the CJ
> primer...Thanks for the suggestion though...!
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Daniel Fortin wrote:
> Funny how just a year ago we, as a community, were so worried about
> radiation poisoning that we talked for hours about the best way to solve
> this potential severe problem. Now we are going through the same discussion
> about CO in the cockpit. Funny that's all.
>
> Did anyone ever come with a real conclusion to the radiation issue?
I think we did. People removed the radium paint or affixed it better with
epoxy or other coatings.
But I don't think we are talking the same thing here. The Radium was never
really a threat to life. It was purely an issue of FUD. CO is a real and
immediate threat. Someone suffering from CO toxicity *IS* experiencing
immediate mental and physical impairment that will effect their ability to
operate the aircraft.
My take on it is that the simplest solution is the best. Sealing the airframe
is interesting but how do you ensure it remains sealed? How do you test it?
Sealing the exhaust system and extending the tips is very simple and easily
tested. You test with the time-honored method of a shop-vac and soap solution.
So, if it were me, I would figure out how much we need to extend the exhaust
stacks and then come up with a formal procedure for testing exhaust system
integrity.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Jeff;
CJ and Yak primers are identical units. They are dual purpose hand pumps
with a single inlet and two seperate output ports.
The Yak installation utilizes one outlet for priming and the other for an
emergency pump. The selection is made by unlocking and rotating the pump
handle.
The CJ incorporates a wobble pump for emerg. use and does not need the lower
capacity pump. The primer pump is modified by the simple addition of a
bypass line between the two outlet ports so that both selections are engine
prime.
Did you have the primer pump handle removed before the hydraulic lock
problem??
It is possible to mis- engage the selector valve and the pump handle at
assembly by entering the wrong guide slot in the cylinder.
If necessary you can make a selector tool from a 1/2" wood dowel by cutting
a slot in one end.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh"
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> OK... you Yak 52 guys skip this one....(the CJ and Yak 52 fuel pumps and
> primers are totally different)
>
> Has anyone had the primer in their CJ "hydraulic lock"? While priming
> for
> start and on the downstroke, the primer stopped going down as if the fuel
> check valve wouldn't permit any fuel to go past it...
>
> Just curious if anybody had faced the problem before delving in to it....
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Brian,
That's applying the KISS principle...No fair.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/13/2005 10:51:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Funny
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Daniel Fortin wrote:
>
> > Funny how just a year ago we, as a community, were so worried about
> > radiation poisoning that we talked for hours about the best way to
solve
> > this potential severe problem. Now we are going through the same
discussion
> > about CO in the cockpit. Funny that's all.
> >
> > Did anyone ever come with a real conclusion to the radiation issue?
>
> I think we did. People removed the radium paint or affixed it better with
> epoxy or other coatings.
>
> But I don't think we are talking the same thing here. The Radium was
never
> really a threat to life. It was purely an issue of FUD. CO is a real and
> immediate threat. Someone suffering from CO toxicity *IS* experiencing
> immediate mental and physical impairment that will effect their ability
to
> operate the aircraft.
>
> My take on it is that the simplest solution is the best. Sealing the
airframe
> is interesting but how do you ensure it remains sealed? How do you test
it?
> Sealing the exhaust system and extending the tips is very simple and
easily
> tested. You test with the time-honored method of a shop-vac and soap
solution.
>
> So, if it were me, I would figure out how much we need to extend the
exhaust
> stacks and then come up with a formal procedure for testing exhaust
system
> integrity.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Brian,
> That's applying the KISS principle...No fair.
Yeah, I know. That is what happens when you get the guy at work who actually
has to make the stuff work and keep it working. He is just going to mess up
everything that the committee does.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
Sorry, just fixing my e-mail...
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Ivey" <jim@jimivey.com>
The best, and free, converter I have found is called "Converber". I have
tried many other but I have yet to have Converber fail to convert any unit I
have encountered. A real neat tool. The last one I will ever need.
Here is where you can find it:
http://www.tucows.com/preview/405321
Jim Ivey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Frank Stelwagon
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 12:49 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Conversions
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon"
> --> <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
>
> The best conversion program that I have seen is Sacramento
> Sky Ranch's "Engineering Manual" software really quick and
> easy to use. However it is not free. sacramentoskyranch.com
> will get you to their web site.
>
> Frank
> CJ6-A N23021
Message 17
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| Subject: | New RPA Prop Flag |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
At airshows, do people finger your prop and gills? At Viperdoc's suggestion,
you can now purchase a "Please Look But Don't Touch" RPA Prop Flag for $30 at
the RPA On-line Store.
(See: http://www.flyredstar.org/StoreCSVS/default.aspx)
It's designed to fit Yak 52 and CJ-6 prop blades as well as most any other.
Short of an electric shock, it'll keep the kids away.
Thanks, Blitz
Byron M Fox
The RPA Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405 Cell Days
415-380-0907 Home Eves
Message 18
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| Subject: | Conversion Calculator |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Jim, Yakkers
Here's the unit conversion program I use. It's the best!
http://www.blackbeltvb.com/index.htm?software.htm
Regards
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
L71
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
No, No, No. Brian is correct: It all comes from the same tank. This is an
old wives tale. Moisture plus oxygen = rust in a steel tank. All oxygen in
the US is produced by liquifaction and distillation of air and they no more
make batches of ABO separately from welding O2 than they make veterinarian
penicillin seperately from human penicillin.
>Rick B,
>
>There is a differance in Oxygen!
> 1. ABO has mosture removed (to prevent freezing)
>
> 2. Medical and ABO have to have cleaned fittings and area sanitized prior
>to filling. Medical has moisture in it to help prevent dehydryating, one of
>the problems encountered with breathing ABO for prolonged periods.
>
>3. Industrial is the lowest quality, with little or no control.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
P.S. You are about half correct on the air issue. Scuba air is, of course,
breathing quality. At the welding shop/compressed gas store you can get
grade D air which is breathing quality. It is probably the only grade you
can find, but ask to be sure.
In air, Grade D is the good stuff, unlike milk where grade A is good and
grade C is only fit for butter, cheese, and powerizing.
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
It is very hard to solve a non-existant problem. Finding something else for
the worriers to worry about works well though.
>Funny how just a year ago we, as a community, were so worried about
>radiation poisoning that we talked for hours about the best way to solve
>this potential severe problem. Now we are going through the same
>discussion
>about CO in the cockpit. Funny that's all.
>
>Did anyone ever come with a real conclusion to the radiation issue?
>
>D
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: "O2" Systems |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
What, we do not get French benefits?
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/13/2005 7:48:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: "O2" Systems
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> No, No, No. Brian is correct: It all comes from the same tank. This is
an
> old wives tale. Moisture plus oxygen = rust in a steel tank. All oxygen
in
> the US is produced by liquifaction and distillation of air and they no
more
> make batches of ABO separately from welding O2 than they make
veterinarian
> penicillin seperately from human penicillin.
>
> >Rick B,
> >
> >There is a differance in Oxygen!
> > 1. ABO has mosture removed (to prevent freezing)
> >
> > 2. Medical and ABO have to have cleaned fittings and area sanitized
prior
> >to filling. Medical has moisture in it to help prevent dehydryating, one
of
> >the problems encountered with breathing ABO for prolonged periods.
> >
> >3. Industrial is the lowest quality, with little or no control.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | New RPA Prop Flag |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I got one of the first ones. I am looking forward to taking it to the
Shelby Co. Airshow in Birmingham this weekend. It looks really good and is
big enough to get their attention...if they can read and have half a brain
that is.
Viperdoc
> [Original Message]
> From: <ByronMFox@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/13/2005 4:55:00 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: New RPA Prop Flag
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
>
> At airshows, do people finger your prop and gills? At Viperdoc's
suggestion,
> you can now purchase a "Please Look But Don't Touch" RPA Prop Flag for
$30 at
> the RPA On-line Store.
> (See: http://www.flyredstar.org/StoreCSVS/default.aspx)
>
> It's designed to fit Yak 52 and CJ-6 prop blades as well as most any
other.
> Short of an electric shock, it'll keep the kids away.
>
> Thanks, Blitz
>
> Byron M Fox
> The RPA Store
> 80 Milland Drive
> Mill Valley, CA 94941
> 415-307-2405 Cell Days
> 415-380-0907 Home Eves
>
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: SWP013@aol.com
Yakkers!
N444YK is for sale. Contact me off list for pics and specs.
Sam "SPUD" Patellos
Message 25
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| Subject: | Conversion Calculator Zip File to download |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakkers;
Check out this copy of Superconversions. Click below to download. Unzip
the file and you got it. Best there is!
http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/SCVS7.ZIP
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