---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/11/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:33 AM - Certified Aircraft (Ira Saligman) 2. 04:26 AM - Re: G limits on the CJ6 (cjpilot710@aol.com) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: Air lines (Ernest Martinez) 4. 05:49 AM - Re: Air lines (A. Dennis Savarese) 5. 06:00 AM - Walter Turbine in Yak-52 (Richard Goode) 6. 06:09 AM - Re: Walter Turbine in Yak-52 (Robert Schwartz) 7. 07:02 AM - A couple of things (Janet Davidson) 8. 07:27 AM - Re: exhaust systems available soon (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G) 9. 07:28 AM - Re: A couple of things (A. Dennis Savarese) 10. 07:28 AM - Re: Air lines (Ernest Martinez) 11. 08:32 AM - Re: A couple of things (Brian Lloyd) 12. 08:44 AM - Re: G limits on the CJ6 (Doug Sapp) 13. 09:12 AM - Re: A couple of things (ggg6@att.net) 14. 09:42 AM - Re: A couple of things (Walter Lannon) 15. 10:47 AM - Red Air FAll Fling (Roger Kemp) 16. 11:10 AM - Re: A couple of things (Brian Lloyd) 17. 11:50 AM - Re: A couple of things (ggg6@att.net) 18. 11:55 AM - Re: A couple of things (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G) 19. 12:08 PM - Re: A couple of things (A. Dennis Savarese) 20. 12:50 PM - mogas and M14P (Brian Lloyd) 21. 01:14 PM - Re: mogas and M14P (Brian Lloyd) 22. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: mogas and M14P (ggg6@att.net) 23. 06:40 PM - BBC E-mail: China launches rocket into space (Janet) 24. 07:43 PM - Re: A couple of things (Cliff Umscheid) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:57 AM PST US From: "Ira Saligman" Subject: Yak-List: Certified Aircraft We are looking at a newly certified aircraft. If anyone has any experience in the manufacture of certified aircraft, if you have a miunte, please contact me. Thanks, Ira Saligman o 610 324 5500 f 215 243 7699 isaligman@saligman.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:58 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: G limits on the CJ6 In a message dated 10/10/2005 11:53:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, joeh@shaw.ca writes: Yakkers Has anyone ever seen an official doc. showing allowable plus and minus "G" for the CJ6 ? Joe Plus 6.5 to minus 3. Its in the aircraft manual. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:18 AM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air lines Why is there hydraulic fluid in your airplane????? Ernie On 10/10/05, aaron marshall wrote: > > Might anyone know of a source for vented caps (that seal when inverted) > that will tolerate 5606 hydraulic fluid? My brake fluid resevoir has a cap > with a 20 thousandths hole in it and after any sort of negative G flight, > most of the fluid is pushed out of the small casister and down the side of > my airplane. Has any one else had this problem aand solved it? > Thanks > Aaron Marshall > YAK52TW > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:45 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air lines Because he has a 52TW with toe brakes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Martinez To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air lines Why is there hydraulic fluid in your airplane????? Ernie On 10/10/05, aaron marshall wrote: Might anyone know of a source for vented caps (that seal when inverted) that will tolerate 5606 hydraulic fluid? My brake fluid resevoir has a cap with a 20 thousandths hole in it and after any sort of negative G flight, most of the fluid is pushed out of the small casister and down the side of my airplane. Has any one else had this problem aand solved it? Thanks Aaron Marshall YAK52TW ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:35 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Yak-List: Walter Turbine in Yak-52 I don't know of anyone who has done it on a 52, but it has been done on a Yak-18T and Su-26. It does make for a long nose to restore CofG. You would have to fill much of the wings with fuel, and I think the real problem is that the intrinsic drag of the aircraft means that speeds would be depressingly low for that power. However, very good aerobatic performance, although the normal M601 is non-aerobatic as is the prop. Richard Goode Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Herefordshire HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:19 AM PST US From: "Robert Schwartz" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Walter Turbine in Yak-52 it seemed like good idea, but not realistic I'm afraid bob From: Richard Goode To: YAK USA LIST Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:59 AM Subject: Yak-List: Walter Turbine in Yak-52 I don't know of anyone who has done it on a 52, but it has been done on a Yak-18T and Su-26. It does make for a long nose to restore CofG. You would have to fill much of the wings with fuel, and I think the real problem is that the intrinsic drag of the aircraft means that speeds would be depressingly low for that power. However, very good aerobatic performance, although the normal M601 is non-aerobatic as is the prop. Richard Goode Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Herefordshire HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:59 AM PST US From: "Janet Davidson" Subject: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( Anyway, they said they are working on a contract with the Chinese to supply their airforce with Diamond aircraft to replace all those Nanchangs. Could be more Nanchangs available for the GA market soon? Secondly, does anyone have a contact in the Midwest for overhauling the Chinese propeller? Doug has given me a contact in CA, which is great, but I am hoping to find someone a bit closer to home. I did try Aircraft Propeller Service, Inc, and tho' he was very helpful, he couldn't do it. Just out of interest, he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the country, and most people have them converted to MT propellers as soon as they can. I guess, in comparison to Hartzell and the rest, there's not many Chinese or Yak propellers out there, but I think he is misinformed if he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the country. Does anyone know how many are registered in the US? He also suggested I contact the importer......I pointed out that he was talking to her.... Thanks, Janet Ph: 920 232 9238 email: gbvfx@hotmail.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:24 AM PST US From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G Subject: RE: Yak-List: exhaust systems available soon Please add me to the list when you are up and running! YAK-50. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: KJKimball@aol.com [mailto:KJKimball@aol.com] Subject: Yak-List: exhaust systems available soon --> Yak-List message posted by: KJKimball@aol.com Recently, there was some discussion of exhaust systems and leaks associated with the stock style seals and clamps. Some of you have or have heard of the nearly leak free systems built by Gary Green of Radial Exhaust Systems in West Virginia. A short time ago, Gary decided to retire and sold his M14 related part of the business to us. We are now setting up to produce the following systems and will begin filling existing back orders in just a few weeks. Pitts model 12 with and without heater Murphy moose with dual heaters Radial Rocket with or without heater Yak 50, 52, 54 style with and without heater CJ6-A 285 hp system with and without heater CJ6-A M14P system with and without heater SU-26 system (to be added soon) Su-29-31 system (to be added soon) Pricing will be along the same lines as from Radial Exhaust in the past. All 321 Stainless steel construction, new stainless nuts and a set of doughnut gaskets included with each system. Options will include heat muff and smoke fittings. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/ http://www.pittsmodel12.com/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:09 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Somewhere between 275 and 300 I believe. Just about an equal number of Yak 52's as well. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Davidson" Subject: Yak-List: A couple of things > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" > > Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice > aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( Anyway, > they said they are working on a contract with the Chinese to supply their > airforce with Diamond aircraft to replace all those Nanchangs. Could be > more Nanchangs available for the GA market soon? > > Secondly, does anyone have a contact in the Midwest for overhauling the > Chinese propeller? Doug has given me a contact in CA, which is great, but > I am hoping to find someone a bit closer to home. I did try Aircraft > Propeller Service, Inc, and tho' he was very helpful, he couldn't do it. > Just out of interest, he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the > country, and most people have them converted to MT propellers as soon as > they can. I guess, in comparison to Hartzell and the rest, there's not > many Chinese or Yak propellers out there, but I think he is misinformed if > he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the country. Does anyone > know how many are registered in the US? He also suggested I contact the > importer......I pointed out that he was talking to her.... > > Thanks, > > Janet > > > Ph: 920 232 9238 > email: gbvfx@hotmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:24 AM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air lines --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez My L-29 has a pressurized hydraulic tank, which does away with having to have a vent hole (obviously not recomended for inverted flight). One solution would be to tapp off of your air system reduce the pressure to about 1 atm (15 PSI) and insert a check valve to prevent hydraulic fluid from going back towards your air source. Then you could do away with your venting cap. I dont know what kind of hydraulic tank you have on the airplane, but the L-29 has approx a 2" cap with a compression cap, you may be able to retrofit. Ernie On 10/11/05, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > Because he has a 52TW with toe brakes. > Dennis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ernest Martinez > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:36 AM > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air lines > > Why is there hydraulic fluid in your airplane????? > > Ernie > > > On 10/10/05, aaron marshall wrote: > > > > Might anyone know of a source for vented caps (that seal when inverted) > that will tolerate 5606 hydraulic fluid? My brake fluid resevoir has a cap > with a 20 thousandths hole in it and after any sort of negative G flight, > most of the fluid is pushed out of the small casister and down the side of > my airplane. Has any one else had this problem aand solved it? > > > > Thanks > > > > Aaron Marshall > > YAK52TW > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:48 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Janet Davidson wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" > > Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice > aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( That Thielert diesel engine in the Diamond Twin-Star looks like the bee's knees. Amazing fuel specifics and it burns jet fuel. As a calibration point, down in the Caribbean, avgas is only available at a few places. You have to tanker fuel to hell and back. Jet-A is available everywhere. The handwriting is on the wall. Seems to me that mogas capability is going to be critical for keeping gasoline-powered aircraft in the air. Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? I believe it is rated for 80 octane and should run just fine on mogas. The Huosai runs just peachy on mogas. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:44 AM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: G limits on the CJ6 A few years ago Joe Howse showed me a letter/document from a engineer (from the factory I believe) which lists all he "G" limits in all configurations. Do you still have this doc Joe? Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 4:27 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: G limits on the CJ6 In a message dated 10/10/2005 11:53:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, joeh@shaw.ca writes: Yakkers Has anyone ever seen an official doc. showing allowable plus and minus "G" for the CJ6 ? Joe Plus 6.5 to minus 3. Its in the aircraft manual. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:59 AM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary -------------- Original message from Brian Lloyd : -------------- > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > > > Janet Davidson wrote: > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" > > > > Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice > > aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( > > That Thielert diesel engine in the Diamond Twin-Star looks like the bee's > knees. Amazing fuel specifics and it burns jet fuel. As a calibration point, > down in the Caribbean, avgas is only available at a few places. You have to > tanker fuel to hell and back. Jet-A is available everywhere. The handwriting > is on the wall. > > Seems to me that mogas capability is going to be critical for keeping > gasoline-powered aircraft in the air. > > Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? I believe it is rated for 80 octane and > should run just fine on mogas. The Huosai runs just peachy on mogas. > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > > > > > > > > > > M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary -------------- Original message from Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com: -------------- -- Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Janet Davidson wrote: -- Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( That Thielert diesel engine in the Diamond Twin-Star looks like the bee's knees. Amazing fuel specifics and it burns jet fuel. As a calibration point, down in the Caribbean, avgas is only available at a few places. You have to tanker fuel to hell and back. Jet-A is available everywhere. The handwriting is on the wall. Seems to me that m ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:31 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" Hi Janet; It's still out west but there is a shop with lots of experience on the J9G1 propellor. A1 Aircraft Propellor Service, Vancouver, B.C. Canada, 604-276- 2452. Ask for Fred and give him my name. You will likely save enough on the exhange rate to pay for shipping. Cheers; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Davidson" Subject: Yak-List: A couple of things > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" > > Firstly, I was at the Diamond Aircraft Factory the other day, nice > aircraft, but not a round engine or a drop of oil in sight :( Anyway, > they said they are working on a contract with the Chinese to supply their > airforce with Diamond aircraft to replace all those Nanchangs. Could be > more Nanchangs available for the GA market soon? > > Secondly, does anyone have a contact in the Midwest for overhauling the > Chinese propeller? Doug has given me a contact in CA, which is great, but > I am hoping to find someone a bit closer to home. I did try Aircraft > Propeller Service, Inc, and tho' he was very helpful, he couldn't do it. > Just out of interest, he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the > country, and most people have them converted to MT propellers as soon as > they can. I guess, in comparison to Hartzell and the rest, there's not > many Chinese or Yak propellers out there, but I think he is misinformed if > he thinks there aren't very many Nanchangs in the country. Does anyone > know how many are registered in the US? He also suggested I contact the > importer......I pointed out that he was talking to her.... > > Thanks, > > Janet > > > Ph: 920 232 9238 > email: gbvfx@hotmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:19 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: Yak-List: Red Air FAll Fling Yakkers, Red Air FAll Fling is up to 38 aircraft if all make it in this coming weekend, 14-16 OCT 05. Realizing some will arrive early on 13 Oct 05. Transportation will be available for the early birds. Mass brief will be at 0830 on Fri (14 Oct) followed by the kick-off of ground school for both FAST and Tactical. Jeff "Ldogg" Linebaugh has the flying schedule for the weekend firmly embedded in Jello at this time. The "Plan" is slowly falling in place, but ,Heh, we can always tap dance if we have to! See all the players this weekend. Fly Safe and Chec 6! Viperdoc Roger "Doc" Kemp viperdoc@mindspring.com Aint no sound like a Radial ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:14 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ggg6@att.net wrote: > > > M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation margin to run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The M14P doesn't have particularly high compression. (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any problems? -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:18 AM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things Brian, I would suggest the need for 91 min. on the M14-P over the IO 540 is the fact that it has a supercharger, and is pulling almost 35 inches of Manifold Pressure, which in affect is like increasing the compression ratio.....Gary -------------- Original message from Brian Lloyd : -------------- > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > > > ggg6@att.net wrote: > > > > > > M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary > > Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation margin to > run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The M14P doesn't > have particularly high compression. > > (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) > > Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any problems? > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > > > > > > > > > > Brian, I would suggest the need for 91 min. on the M14-P over the IO 540 is the fact that it has a supercharger, and is pulling almost 35 inches of Manifold Pressure, which in affect islike increasing the compression ratio.....Gary -------------- Original message from Brian Lloyd brian-yak@lloyd.com: -------------- -- Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ggg6@att.net wrote: M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation margin to run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The M14P doesn't have particularly high compression. (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any problems? -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 I fly because it releases my min ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:17 AM PST US From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G Subject: RE: Yak-List: A couple of things Brian, I have run mine on unleaded mogas quite a bit and it has run perfectly without a sign of any problem what-so-ever. That is not an endorsement, just a statement. I run a 50/50 mix of 100LL and unleaded (93 octane) as much as I am able to in order to try and reduce leading problems... particularly on the number 2 cylinder. Of course, it also saves $$$$ ... at least until mogas went through the roof! Yes, I also run MMO. A friend had a 52 that he said he ran nothing BUT 93 octane mogas through (very little to no 100LL) and he swears by it. I've run this mix for about a year now with no problems that I can see. Leading is of course ... much less. I keep a close check on the fuel for any alcohol content. Agreed on the low compression pistons, but it also has a blower...... Mark N50YK -----Original Message----- From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brian-yak@lloyd.com] Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ggg6@att.net wrote: > > > M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation margin to run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The M14P doesn't have particularly high compression. (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any problems? -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:04 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" I have run my M14 on mogas, but only on 93 octane. No problems with it though. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > > ggg6@att.net wrote: >> M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary > > Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation > margin to run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The > M14P doesn't have particularly high compression. > > (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) > > Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any > problems? > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:54 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: mogas and M14P --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ggg6@att.net wrote: > Brian, I would suggest the need for 91 min. on the M14-P over the IO > 540 is the fact that it has a supercharger, and is pulling almost 35 > inches of Manifold Pressure, which in affect is like increasing the > compression ratio.....Gary I see that a couple of you are running mogas. I am glad to hear that. But before I saw your messages I had already written the following. I think that the information is useful and may be of interest. The Huosai has a 6:1 compression ratio and runs with 33.5" of MAP and is rated for 70 octane fuel. I suspect that the detonation margin for the M14P is greater than we imagine. And the point about Russian/Soviet fuel is well taken. Who knows what their quality control was/is. I just called Bob Peterson at Peterson Aviation, Inc. He is the one (in addition to the EAA) who offers the mogas STCs on many production aircraft. He didn't have specific information on the M14P but did have some guidelines for figuring out whether one could run mogas in the M14P. First thing he pointed out is that the Pratt 1320 and 1830 both have higher compression ratios and higher max MAP than the M14P and they can run on mogas. Next he said that 20 years ago the Russians had *really* crappy quality control on their fuel and that the octane ratings on their fuel were always suspect. He also pointed out that the rest of the world does not measure octane in their fuels the way we do here for Avgas (rich/lean method). He said that the rest of the world tends to use the motor octane rating in which case 91 octane "premium" mogas in the US would have a higher motor octane rating as our mogas uses the average of the motor octane and radical octane numbers. He said the only way to know for sure is to ask the engine manufacturer as to how the octane number requirement for the engine was derived. But he also said that the engine probably can run safely on mogas. He suggested flying with mogas at reduced power. Pull the plugs and inspect the top of the piston. If the normal ash deposit is still present, there is no detonation. If the top of the piston is clean there is mild detonation. If the top of the piston looks like you hammered on it with a ball-peen hammer, there is severe detonation. If no detonation is present, increase the MAP in increments until you finally test at full power. If the tops of the pistons look normal, the engine has sufficient detonation margin. He had only one serious caveat: make sure the mogas does not have alcohol in it. In the days of rising fuel costs, running on mogas may be the only way we can continue to afford our flying. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:10 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: Re: mogas and M14P --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd For more info on mogas see Peterson Aviation's website at: http://www.webworksltd.com/autofuelstc/pa/PetersenAviation.html -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:40 PM PST US From: ggg6@att.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: mogas and M14P Guys on the use of auto fuel,, some of you have airplanes other than ones with M-14P's or the Housi's in them,,, a word of warning: I just bought a Cessna 140 with a C-85 in it and the Acft has a STC approval for Auto Fuel, But since the auto fuel approval, the C-85 has had an STC done on it, It now has a O-200 Crank, Rods, and Pistons,,the STC for the engine upgrade states that Auto Fuel is not approved for the Upgraded engine..So check Your paper work, if there has been any engine STC's done...Gary -------------- Original message from Brian Lloyd : -------------- > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > For more info on mogas see Peterson Aviation's website at: > > http://www.webworksltd.com/autofuelstc/pa/PetersenAviation.html > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > > > > > > > > > > Guys on the use of auto fuel,, some of you have airplanes other than ones with M-14P's or the Housi's in them,,, a word of warning: I just bought a Cessna 140 with a C-85 in it and the Acft has a STC approval for Auto Fuel, But since the auto fuel approval, the C-85 has had an STC done on it, It now has a O-200 Crank, Rods, and Pistons,,the STC for the engine upgrade states that Auto Fuel is not approved for the Upgraded engine..So check Your paper work, if there has been any engine STC's done...Gary ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:48 PM PST US From: Janet Subject: Yak-List: BBC E-mail: China launches rocket into space friend" facility on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything said in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views. .NET CLR 1.0.3705) --> Yak-List message posted by: Janet Janet saw this story on BBC News Online and thought you should see it. ** Message ** I wonder if it had a round engine? And left a little trail of oil everywhere it went ;) Janet ** China launches rocket into space ** China successfully launches a rocket carrying two Chinese astronauts into space, for the second time. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4333158.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/dailyemail/ > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender havebeen verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things From: Cliff Umscheid Mark In your use of that 50-50 mixture, are you using full throttle position on takeoff? Do you make any effort to limit the percentage of T.O. RPM to 100% ,or is your prop set to only allow you to achieve 100% at full throttle? Some folks are "tweeking" the gov. adjustment to 102% at T.O. throttle to get extra advantage in the vertical . Of course, they are using 100LL. Does the M 14 P and PF have an "nrichment jet " in the carburetor which opens at the full throttle position ? How much MMO are you using with a full tank of gasoline? Thanks, Cliff On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:56:25 -0400 Bitterlich GS11 Mark G writes: Brian, I have run mine on unleaded mogas quite a bit and it has run perfectly without a sign of any problem what-so-ever. That is not an endorsement, just a statement. I run a 50/50 mix of 100LL and unleaded (93 octane) as much as I am able to in order to try and reduce leading problems... particularly on the number 2 cylinder. Of course, it also saves $$$$ ... at least until mogas went through the roof! Yes, I also run MMO. A friend had a 52 that he said he ran nothing BUT 93 octane mogas through (very little to no 100LL) and he swears by it. I've run this mix for about a year now with no problems that I can see. Leading is of course ... much less. I keep a close check on the fuel for any alcohol content. Agreed on the low compression pistons, but it also has a blower...... Mark N50YK -----Original Message----- From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brian-yak@lloyd.com] Subject: Re: Yak-List: A couple of things --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ggg6@att.net wrote: > > > M-14P is rated for 91 oct Minimum...Gary Hmm, the Lycoming IO-540 is rated for 91/96 but has ample detonation margin to run on 91 octane mogas. It may be that the M14P is the same. The M14P doesn't have particularly high compression. (Sorry, just thinking aloud.) Is anyone running their M14P on mogas? If so, are you experiencing any problems? -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,