Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Yak 50 climbs (Mark Jefferies)
2. 04:05 AM - California Fuel Prices (Craig Payne)
3. 04:24 AM - Re: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 04:36 AM - Wilma (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 05:32 AM - Formation Takeoffs (Jeff Linebaugh)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Selma & FAST Patches (Roger Kemp)
7. 06:41 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Roger Kemp)
8. 06:46 AM - Re: Wilma (Roger Kemp)
9. 06:55 AM - Re: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video (Roger Kemp)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Ron Spencer)
11. 07:03 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 07:09 AM - Re: Wilma (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 07:16 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Ernest Martinez)
14. 08:18 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Roger Kemp)
15. 08:29 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (N13472@aol.com)
16. 08:50 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (A. Dennis Savarese)
17. 08:53 AM - Selma and the RPA newsletter (Drew Blahnick)
18. 08:55 AM - Re: California Fuel Prices (KingCJ6@aol.com)
19. 09:47 AM - CA fuel prices (Barry Hancock)
20. 10:26 AM - Fw: Selma Photo and Video Links (Kevin Pilling)
21. 10:30 AM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Roger Kemp)
22. 10:39 AM - Re: CA fuel prices (Brian Lloyd)
23. 10:47 AM - Re: Fw: Selma Photo and Video Links (Roger Kemp)
24. 12:13 PM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Roger Kemp)
25. 01:02 PM - Mark Jeffreries assertions (Roger Baker)
26. 02:18 PM - Re: Selma Photo and Video Links (Fraser, Gus)
27. 02:34 PM - California Fuel Prices (ByronMFox@aol.com)
28. 03:36 PM - Re: California Fuel Prices (Craig Payne)
29. 04:30 PM - Re: Selma Photo and Video Links (Roger Kemp)
30. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: California Fuel Prices (Ernest Martinez)
31. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: California Fuel Prices (Roger Kemp)
32. 07:18 PM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
33. 08:40 PM - Re: Formation Takeoffs (Roger Kemp)
34. 10:41 PM - Oh,dear. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
35. 11:05 PM - Re: California Fuel Prices (N13472@aol.com)
Message 1
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The YAK 50 with 400hp and MT -29 climbs from 500ft to 3200ft in 1 minute,
that's not a zoom climb, that's established at 160 kph and 82% RPM. Ie no
BS. In UK every 3 years we have to do a 5 mins climb and record the data
for CAA, I did the 400hp a/c I just collected from Termikas only 2 weeks
ago. Just wait and see what happens when we put 450 in one!!! Some years ago
I continued the climb just for fun and went to 19,000ft on a 360 engine. It
was still climbing at 500 FPM but I thought time to get down PDQ. It took 20
mins to get to 19,000 a long way down !!!!
I know you guys are just discovering the Y50 for yourself, keep reading :>))
BTW, RG bought the first Y50 into the UK in 1988/9
++++++++++++++++++++++++
2,500 and climbing The Clark Y airfoil has much to do with how fast
one can make
the Yak 52 go.
Dennis
Message 2
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| Subject: | California Fuel Prices |
>
>while I paid $4.65 on Sunday in Novato, CA. Somebody explain this to
>me....please!
>
>Thanks, Blitz
>
I believe Novato is in Marin County, is that not so? To paraphrase a local saying:
"paying more is Very Marin" and a way of life there. I have visions of white
gloved fuel valets carefully attending to your airplane as you sip a Double
Latte, watching from the FBO window...
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video |
That's "Wild Bill" Walker from Tennessee.
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video
Great pictures, thanks. Who owns the red Y52 with the black and white checker?
Very cool. ...Blitz
Message 4
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Guys,
I've got nasty feeling about Wilma. Looks like its our turn. Again.
This morning the recon airplane reported the LOWEST EVER MB reading - 884.
She is packing winds of 168 KNOTS! She literally went from a Cat I to Cat 5
overnight.
If you live on the west Florida coast you might make plans to get you
airplanes into very sturdy hangars or move them north into Ga. If you live on
the
water, for God sake, move in land when the time comes and you're bore sighted.
Please keep track of her and make plans now.
Jim "Now where the *#$@ did I put that flash light? Pappy" Goolsby
Message 5
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| Subject: | Formation Takeoffs |
Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a constant
(reduced) power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the ability to
maintain position. Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined, emphasized) be
constantly adjusting power based on the wingpilot(s) position.
If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they may
stay in position, then it will force Lead into spending too much time
looking at the wingie. The Lead should be concentrating on clearing for the
flight. Cross checking the wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so
closely that you are able to vary power setting based on their bearing line
position is not. If a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call
it out, and, if reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off
Lead.
Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your prop,
weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating full
power takeoffs, then they should be made single ship. Another option would
be to have the lower powered aircraft be Lead and set full power (if
proficient as Lead).
Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get the wrong
idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Selma & FAST Patches |
That's Gay People's Republic of Northern California. A member of the fledgling
break away country of WOC ( Washington State, Oregan, and California).
Sorry Blitz, I know that job commitments keep you trapped there.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Selma & FAST Patches
In a message dated 10/18/2005 11:15:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ByronMFox@aol.com
writes:
Jeff, you wrote, "We nearly burned 2500 gallons of AVGAS at $3.19/gallon." I don't
get it. After two crippling hurricanes that have reduced daily fuel production
by a million barrels/day, you guys in Selma bought 100LL for $3.19, while
I paid $4.65 on Sunday in Novato, CA. Somebody explain this to me....please!
Thanks, Blitz
It's what you get for living in the PEOPLES REPUBLIC of CALIF
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 7
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| Subject: | Formation Takeoffs |
Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it call it out!
As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he is going to say SHUT
UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD YOUR ON FIRE... OR LEAD
"BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED! OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
DOC
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a constant (reduced)
power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the ability to maintain position.
Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting
power based on the wingpilot(s) position.
If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they may stay
in position, then it will force Lead into spending too much time looking at the
wingie. The Lead should be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross
checking the wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are
able to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If a
wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if reasonable,
the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your prop, weren't
you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating full power takeoffs,
then they should be made single ship. Another option would be to have the
lower powered aircraft be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get the wrong idea
about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 8
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Yep guys...ya'll are in the one's sights.. If you need a place to run, I have room
in my hanger and some extra rooms vacated by my kids in college and away at
pilot trainging. Let me know if you want to run all the way to MGM, Al.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Yak-List: Wilma
Guys,
I've got nasty feeling about Wilma. Looks like its our turn. Again.
This morning the recon airplane reported the LOWEST EVER MB reading - 884. She
is packing winds of 168 KNOTS! She literally went from a Cat I to Cat 5 overnight.
If you live on the west Florida coast you might make plans to get you airplanes
into very sturdy hangars or move them north into Ga. If you live on the water,
for God sake, move in land when the time comes and you're bore sighted.
Please keep track of her and make plans now.
Jim "Now where the *#$@ did I put that flash light? Pappy" Goolsby
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video |
Wild Bill Walker.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Selma Fly-In Pictures and Video
Great pictures, thanks. Who owns the red Y52 with the black and white checker?
Very cool. ...Blitz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
Must shamelessly plug my book here!
Subject matter is covered in a "Guide To Civilian Formation Aerobatics" ! Copies are available for those who are interested. Check it out at www.ronspencerairshows.com
-rs-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
To: yak-list@matronics. com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:28 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a constant
(reduced) power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the ability to maintain
position. Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly
adjusting power based on the wingpilot(s) position.
If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they may
stay in position, then it will force Lead into spending too much time looking
at the wingie. The Lead should be concentrating on clearing for the flight.
Cross checking the wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that
you are able to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not.
If a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if reasonable,
the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your prop,
weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating full power
takeoffs, then they should be made single ship. Another option would be to
have the lower powered aircraft be Lead and set full power (if proficient as
Lead).
Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get the
wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario and getting
sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some. You can also
bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him to give me some,
that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it call it out!
As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he is going to say
SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD YOUR ON FIRE... OR
LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED! OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
DOC
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
To: yak-list@matronics. com
Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a constant
(reduced) power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the ability to maintain
position. Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly
adjusting power based on the wingpilot(s) position.
If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they
may stay in position, then it will force Lead into spending too much time looking
at the wingie. The Lead should be concentrating on clearing for the flight.
Cross checking the wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that
you are able to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is
not. If a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if
reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your
prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating full
power takeoffs, then they should be made single ship. Another option would be
to have the lower powered aircraft be Lead and set full power (if proficient
as Lead).
Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get the
wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 12
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Since I share space in Doc's hanger and I live only 1.5 miles from the airport,
I can offer a bedroom too. Don't hesitate to come.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Wilma
Yep guys...ya'll are in the one's sights.. If you need a place to run, I have
room in my hanger and some extra rooms vacated by my kids in college and away
at pilot trainging. Let me know if you want to run all the way to MGM, Al.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 10/19/2005 6:33:29 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Wilma
Guys,
I've got nasty feeling about Wilma. Looks like its our turn. Again.
This morning the recon airplane reported the LOWEST EVER MB reading - 884.
She is packing winds of 168 KNOTS! She literally went from a Cat I to Cat 5
overnight.
If you live on the west Florida coast you might make plans to get you airplanes
into very sturdy hangars or move them north into Ga. If you live on the
water, for God sake, move in land when the time comes and you're bore sighted.
Please keep track of her and make plans now.
Jim "Now where the *#$@ did I put that flash light? Pappy" Goolsby
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats why I fly armed. If lead says something I dont like I just pop a
few off into his fuselage, if he continues, I work my way closer to
the cockpit. What I also find it more effective than "Gimme Some" is
to shoot holes into 1 or more cylinders. I usually find that the
decrease in power is more than sifficient :)
Ernie
On 10/19/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario and getting
sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some. You can
also bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him to give me
some, that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>
>
> Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it call it
out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he is going
to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD YOUR ON FIRE...
OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED! OTHERWISE...HACK
IT!
> DOC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Linebaugh
> To: yak-list@matronics. com
> Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>
>
> Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a
constant (reduced) power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the
ability to maintain position. Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined,
emphasized) be constantly adjusting power based on the wingpilot(s)
position.
>
> If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they
may stay in position, then it will force Lead into spending too
much time looking at the wingie. The Lead should be concentrating
on clearing for the flight. Cross checking the wingpilot(s) is proper,
but watching them so closely that you are able to vary power setting
based on their bearing line position is not. If a wingpilot
needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if reasonable,
the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
>
> Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your
prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating
full power takeoffs, then they should be made single ship.
Another option would be to have the lower powered aircraft be Lead
and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
>
> Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get
the wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Hammer,
I've had it said to me more than once in the fighter community and Lead was
right. Lead does not have time to be jockying the throttle looking back
over his shoulder at 2 and not clearing the flight path for the two of you.
His job is to safely get two aircraft in the air without hitting someone or
stalling both out of the air. If two is whinning about "lead gimme
some...lead gimme some.. then both are going to leave the ground near
stall. Two needs to be ready to go when One's chin touches his chest with
100% throttle. Lead will give some but probably not much (maybe 95 to 98%).
No, we do not have blowers to tap in our YAKs....but. In the cold true
fighter world, it is 2's responsiblity to "be there" and clear leads tail.
As one old fighter pilot told me at the bar one Friday night as I whinned
about not being able to stay in position on one particular sortie in So
Az...2 you f...'d up...quit whinning or bring me some cheese to go with it.
Cold yes..but true.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/19/2005 9:13:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Thats why I fly armed. If lead says something I dont like I just pop a
> few off into his fuselage, if he continues, I work my way closer to
> the cockpit. What I also find it more effective than "Gimme Some" is
> to shoot holes into 1 or more cylinders. I usually find that the
> decrease in power is more than sifficient :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 10/19/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario
and getting sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some.
You can also bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him
to give me some, that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roger Kemp
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
> >
> >
> >
> > Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it
call it out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he
is going to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD
YOUR ON FIRE... OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED!
OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
> > DOC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jeff Linebaugh
> > To: yak-list@matronics. com
> > Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
> > Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
> >
> >
> >
> > Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always
sets a constant (reduced) power setting so that the wingpilot(s)
have the ability to maintain position. Lead should not (bold,
italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting power
based on the wingpilot(s) position.
> >
> > If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so
that they may stay in position, then it will force Lead into
spending too much time looking at the wingie. The Lead should
be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross checking the
wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are able
to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If
a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if
reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
> >
> > Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of
your prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical,
necessitating full power takeoffs, then they should be made single
ship. Another option would be to have the lower powered aircraft
be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
> >
> > Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people
might get the wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
> >
> >
> > Jeff Linebaugh
> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> > CJ-6P N621CJ
> > Memphis, TN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
In a message dated 10/19/2005 7:28:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
erniel29@gmail.com writes:
> Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it
call it out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he is
going to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD YOUR
ON FIRE... OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED!
OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
> DOC
Not correct the only thing lead want to hear from two is:
# 1. Lead your on FIRE!
#2. A. I'll take the fat broad
B. I'll take the ugly broad
C. I'll get the bar bill
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I don't think it has anything to do with #2 being a bit behind on the get
go. Read - It has to do with lead NOT doing what he's suppose to be doing
and that is setting the power so that #2 has ample smash to stay in position
during the formation take off. 95% and 80mm is damn sure not going to stall
the airplane on the climb out. And #2 damn sure will be able to stay in.
I'm not talking about jets Doc because there you will always have more than
enough smash. I'm talking about our measly ol' Yak's and CJ's. If lead
goes at 100% in the Yak or CJ and #2 gets sucked from the get go, then Lead
is a piss poor lead in my opinion.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Hammer,
> I've had it said to me more than once in the fighter community and Lead
> was
> right. Lead does not have time to be jockying the throttle looking back
> over his shoulder at 2 and not clearing the flight path for the two of
> you.
> His job is to safely get two aircraft in the air without hitting someone
> or
> stalling both out of the air. If two is whinning about "lead gimme
> some...lead gimme some.. then both are going to leave the ground near
> stall. Two needs to be ready to go when One's chin touches his chest with
> 100% throttle. Lead will give some but probably not much (maybe 95 to
> 98%).
> No, we do not have blowers to tap in our YAKs....but. In the cold true
> fighter world, it is 2's responsiblity to "be there" and clear leads tail.
> As one old fighter pilot told me at the bar one Friday night as I whinned
> about not being able to stay in position on one particular sortie in So
> Az...2 you f...'d up...quit whinning or bring me some cheese to go with
> it.
> Cold yes..but true.
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 10/19/2005 9:13:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> Thats why I fly armed. If lead says something I dont like I just pop a
>> few off into his fuselage, if he continues, I work my way closer to
>> the cockpit. What I also find it more effective than "Gimme Some" is
>> to shoot holes into 1 or more cylinders. I usually find that the
>> decrease in power is more than sifficient :)
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 10/19/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario
> and getting sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some.
> You can also bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him
> to give me some, that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
>> > Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Roger Kemp
>> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
>> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it
> call it out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely
> he
> is going to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S
> BINGO...LEAD
> YOUR ON FIRE... OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED!
> OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
>> > DOC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Jeff Linebaugh
>> > To: yak-list@matronics. com
>> > Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
>> > Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always
> sets a constant (reduced) power setting so that the
> wingpilot(s)
> have the ability to maintain position. Lead should not (bold,
> italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting power
> based on the wingpilot(s) position.
>> >
>> > If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so
> that they may stay in position, then it will force Lead into
> spending too much time looking at the wingie. The Lead should
> be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross checking the
> wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are able
> to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If
> a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if
> reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
>> >
>> > Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of
> your prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical,
> necessitating full power takeoffs, then they should be made single
> ship. Another option would be to have the lower powered
> aircraft
> be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
>> >
>> > Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people
> might get the wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jeff Linebaugh
>> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> > CJ-6P N621CJ
>> > Memphis, TN
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Selma and the RPA newsletter |
Ray, congrats on finishing up!
Great job all, looks like both coasts are fully mobalized. Pappy, we need to collect
data for the newsletter on Selma...Shane, include your pre-event info please.
Need to get Texas (south central) rolling and your success will help...
The new proposed Bylaws, that will quickly implement a fully Regionalized Elected Board of Directors, as well as several other significant improvements, are posted with the original bylaws, on the public and private home pages of www.flyredstar.org for member viewing.... I am now completing the electronic (online) voting system for the member-wide bylaw vote and all future elections. This will allow members to either vote online (secure form) or download a ballot, print and mail or fax in. If passed, regional elections would immediately take place - as quickly as we can...
Drew Blahnick
---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: California Fuel Prices |
Craig - your comments relative to our fine aerodrome are only partially
correct:
Chi tea has easily surpassed the "so 90's" Latte in consumption; high
colonics are also a welcome available relief after a tense form flight.
Our fuel valets, most with PHd's in philosophy, only wear white gloves on
Tuesdays and alternating Saturdays. Other glove-color-of-the-days are
determined by seasonal patterns and cousultation with various local psychics.
The palatial fuel waiting suite does have a sweeping view of the Barbara
Boxer Memorial Swamp Flea Lagoon, but last week one of our 6 plasma TVs went
Tango Uniform, so we now fight over which screen gets Geraldo.
DVO is only a short limo ride from the childhood home of Johnny Walker, the
"Talaban Kid".
The recycle fees for Marvel Mystery Oil, dispensed from our vending machine,
was just reduced to $75/pint.
We house the rainbow-adorned regional headquarters for the Gay Airline
Pilots Association.
While our landing fees are not overly indulgent, we do ask that you provide
advance proof of a line-of-credit to cover our overnight tie-down donations.
We welcome all Yaksters! Please contact Sandiee for potential available
landing slots in '06.
Dave
In a message dated 10/19/2005 4:06:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cpayne@joimail.com writes:
>Thanks, Blitz
>
I believe Novato is in Marin County, is that not so? To paraphrase a local
saying: "paying more is Very Marin" and a way of life there. I have visions of
white gloved fuel valets carefully attending to your airplane as you sip a
Double Latte, watching from the FBO window...
Craig Payne
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Oct 18, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> Jeff, you wrote, "We nearly burned 2500 gallons of AVGAS at
> $3.19/gallon." I
> don't get it. After two crippling hurricanes that have reduced daily
> fuel
> production by a million barrels/day, you guys in Selma bought 100LL
> for $3.19,
>
> while I paid $4.65 on Sunday in Novato, CA. Somebody explain this to
> me....please!
>
> Thanks, Blitz
The really interesting thing is the reduced production in the gulf has
ZERO to do with fuel produced in California. Of course the PRC has to
have it's own type of fuel. So our fuel prices go through the roof
because of something that never happened (reduced supply)... Now,
someone explain THAT????
Blitz, I have two words for you......Mo Gas. At this point I'm
guessing it would be cheaper to operate with any Mo Gas and replace
your fuel lines every year...but that's just a WAG...YMMV.
Barry
Message 20
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| Subject: | Selma Photo and Video Links |
Nice pictures Guys and in particular the Video....very atmospheric....are all the
aircraft actually in the same State's airspace ?
I guess you ran out of film before finally getting the formation together huh?
Was it the weather or the challenging terrain that held you back?
Keep practising you'll get it right eventually.
Fly safe
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Golden
Subject: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Here's some Selma photo and video links from David McGirt.
Shane
All,
VIDEOS
Mass Formation Clip ( 70MB )
http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%20FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv
Enjoy,
David
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
Actually it goes..as 2...I got the fat ugly bitch...you want another BEER?
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
In a message dated 10/19/2005 7:28:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, erniel29@gmail.com
writes:
> Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it call it
out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely he is going
to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S BINGO...LEAD YOUR ON FIRE...
OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED! OTHERWISE...HACK
IT!
> DOC
Not correct the only thing lead want to hear from two is:
# 1. Lead your on FIRE!
#2. A. I'll take the fat broad
B. I'll take the ugly broad
C. I'll get the bar bill
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: CA fuel prices |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Barry Hancock wrote:
> The really interesting thing is the reduced production in the gulf has
> ZERO to do with fuel produced in California. Of course the PRC has to
> have it's own type of fuel. So our fuel prices go through the roof
> because of something that never happened (reduced supply)... Now,
> someone explain THAT????
>
> Blitz, I have two words for you......Mo Gas. At this point I'm guessing
> it would be cheaper to operate with any Mo Gas and replace your fuel
> lines every year...but that's just a WAG...YMMV.
Fuel (100LL) at Cameron Park (O61) is $3.70.
And as for mogas, I would be a bit reluctant to use fuel with ethanol. I am
less concerned about the corrosive nature of ethanol than of its hygroscopic
nature (absorbs water) and its higher vapor pressure (more chance to vapor
lock). We are not too worried about the water coming out of solution and
freezing in the lines here but it is a possibility in the winter if you climb
to any sort of altitude at all.
If you want to buy a big batch you can get mogas that has not been blended.
The airport at Modesto is selling mogas that does not have ethanol blended
into it and is safe for use in aircraft.
I know reading is a lot harder than flying airplanes but if you put your mind
to it you can do it! Petersen Aviation has lots of good information on running
mogas in airplanes.
http://www.webworksltd.com/autofuelstc/pa/PetersenAviation.html
Just because they are addressing mogas in spam cans doesn't mean that the
information is not just as applicable to us. After all, there just isn't a lot
of difference between a CJ6A and a Beechcraft Bonanza when you get right down
to it.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 23
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| Subject: | Selma Photo and Video Links |
OK, puffta, we'll try!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Pilling
Subject: Fw: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Nice pictures Guys and in particular the Video....very atmospheric....are all the
aircraft actually in the same State's airspace ?
I guess you ran out of film before finally getting the formation together huh?
Was it the weather or the challenging terrain that held you back?
Keep practising you'll get it right eventually.
Fly safe
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Golden
Subject: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Heres some Selma photo and video links from David McGirt.
Shane
All,
VIDEOS
Mass Formation Clip ( 70MB )
http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%20FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv
Enjoy,
David
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Formation Takeoffs |
Sorry Ron, not to knock your plug..but I've got the AFR on that one. But, it would
help the civilian aviators in the crowd to read it.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Spencer
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Must shamelessly plug my book here!
Subject matter is covered in a "Guide To Civilian Formation Aerobatics" ! Copies are available for those who are interested. Check it out at www.ronspencerairshows.com
-rs-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always sets a constant (reduced)
power setting so that the wingpilot(s) have the ability to maintain position.
Lead should not (bold, italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting
power based on the wingpilot(s) position.
If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so that they may stay
in position, then it will force Lead into spending too much time looking at the
wingie. The Lead should be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross
checking the wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are
able to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If a
wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if reasonable,
the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of your prop, weren't
you? If runway length or climb were critical, necessitating full power takeoffs,
then they should be made single ship. Another option would be to have the
lower powered aircraft be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people might get the wrong idea
about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 25
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| Subject: | Mark Jeffreries assertions |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
Hello Mark,
I don't normally read the Yak list these days, but I got a call
yesterday from a friend who runs (very successfully and trouble free)
a Russian overhauled M-14P in a CJ-6. He was NOT happy.
After he calmed down a bit, I had him email me your posting of
Monday on the Yak List. I must say, Mark, that you apparently don't
care how many people you offend nor how accurate are your assertions
in the promotion of your own business.
Over the years, I have imported (or been involved in the
importation) of several Yak 52s....and of several M-14P engines...all
of which had been overhauled in Russia. All of these Russian
overhauled airplanes and engines have been operated very successfully
and with absolutely the most minor squawks. There was one batch of
two engines that had improperly sealed supercharger drive
shafts...which were repaired under warranty by the factory.
It is true that, recently, paperwork in dealing with the
Russian tax authorities has been more difficult. Otherwise, these
things are happening successfully. As a matter of fact, I have a
Russian overhauled M-14P sitting in my hangar which arrived here in
California in mid June. There was far more hassle from the US
customs (the so called "Homeland Security") people than anybody else
throughout the process.
I think you must be getting a little carried away in promoting
your own business. In my opinion, for you to essentially accuse
everybody else of being inferior is disingenuous, at best. You have
offended quite a few knowledgeble people here in the US.
Roger Baker
Message 26
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| Subject: | Selma Photo and Video Links |
Cold man, very cold.
Could this be where we have the first international formation contest ? I am
sure that planes could be made available to visiting pilots for a judged
formation.
USA vs Europe vs Antipods vs Africa
Now that would be worth being a fly on the wall for.
We have the Oscars, Emies (sp?) etc well how about the Papiski's to be
judged by bare breasted women and argued about for months, at great length
with anyone that will listen.
Now that is something I would buy a ticket to watch, as long as it came with
a happy ending :)))))
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Pilling
Subject: Fw: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Nice pictures Guys and in particular the Video....very atmospheric....are
all the aircraft actually in the same State's airspace ?
I guess you ran out of film before finally getting the formation together
huh? Was it the weather or the challenging terrain that held you back?
Keep practising you'll get it right eventually.
Fly safe
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Golden <mailto:scgsmg@direcway.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Here's some Selma photo and video links from David McGirt.
Shane
All,
VIDEOS
Mass Formation Clip ( 70MB )
http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%2
0FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv
<http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%
20FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv>
Enjoy,
David
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<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Cold man, very cold.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Could this be where we have the first international
formation contest ? I am sure that planes could be made available to visiting
pilots for a judged formation.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>USA vs Europe vs Antipods vs Africa
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Now that would be worth being a fly on the wall
for.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>We have the Oscars, Emies (sp?) etc well how about the
Papiski's to be judged by bare breasted women and argued about
for months, at great length with anyone that will listen.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Now that is something I would buy a ticketto watch,
as long as it came with a happy ending:)))))
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Pilling
yak-list@matronics. com
Subject: Fw: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video
Links
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: maroon; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bookman Old Style'">Nice
pictures Guys and in particular the Video....very atmospheric....are all the
aircraft actually in the same State's airspace?<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: maroon; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bookman Old Style'">I
guess you ran out of film before finally getting the formation together huh?
Was it the weather or the challenging terrain that held you
back?
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: maroon; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bookman Old Style'">Keep
practising you'll get it right eventually.<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: maroon; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bookman Old Style'">Fly
safe
<SPAN
lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: maroon; FONT-FAMILY: 'Bookman Old Style'">kp<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:<FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=scgsmg@direcway.com
">Shane Golden
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:<FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:<FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:18
AM
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:<FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Yak-List: <st2:City
w:st="on"><st2:place w:st="on">Selma</st2:place></st2:City> Photo and Video
Links
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Here's some <st2:City
w:st="on"><st2:place w:st="on">Selma</st2:place></st2:City> photo and video
links from <st2:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:GivenName
w:st="on">David</st1:GivenName> <st1:Sn
w:st="on">McGirt</st1:Sn></st2:PersonName>. <SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<st1:GivenName w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Shane</st1:GivenName><SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All,<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">VIDEOS<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mass Formation Clip
(
70MB )
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
"
target=_BLANK>http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%20FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Enjoy,<SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<st1:GivenName w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David</st1:GivenName><SPAN
lang=EN-US>
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
Message 27
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| Subject: | California Fuel Prices |
Craig, you're unaware of it because Dave King would never mention it, but
Dave, mench that he is, responded to your comments about life at our Marin County
airport with just one hand. Hardly a week ago, Dave went under the knife to
correct a severe left shoulder injury incurred in the line of duty as a FAST
Instructor. Would be that we all could be as stolid, as brave, as glib. My hero.
...Blitz
Message 28
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| Subject: | RE: California Fuel Prices |
>Craig, you're unaware of it because Dave King would never mention it, but
>Dave, mench that he is, responded to your comments about life at our Marin County
>airport with just one hand. Hardly a week ago, Dave went under the knife to
>correct a severe left shoulder injury incurred in the line of duty as a FAST
>Instructor. Would be that we all could be as stolid, as brave, as glib. My hero.
>
>...Blitz
Blitz,
My regards to Dave, I hate knives in the hands of others! I too suffer from extreme
duty as a FAST Lead at Selma! My butt still aches from parachute rigor mortis,
compounded by "G" forces and my head from "O" Club excesses. No Chi Tea
for this transplanted Redneck in Polk County, it's Cuban sandwiches and Ybor
Gold for a colonic.
You NoCal dudes are OK guys but I can't stand the taste of Wheat Grass Smoothies
over Pulled Pork BBQ with mashed sweet potato and Grits/W Tomato gravy.
Keep on Yakkin'
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Selma Photo and Video Links |
Interesting thought....
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Fraser, Gus
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Cold man, very cold.
Could this be where we have the first international formation contest ? I am sure
that planes could be made available to visiting pilots for a judged formation.
USA vs Europe vs Antipods vs Africa
Now that would be worth being a fly on the wall for.
We have the Oscars, Emies (sp?) etc well how about the Papiski's to be judged by
bare breasted women and argued about for months, at great length with anyone
that will listen.
Now that is something I would buy a ticket to watch, as long as it came with a
happy ending :)))))
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Pilling
Subject: Fw: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Nice pictures Guys and in particular the Video....very atmospheric....are all the
aircraft actually in the same State's airspace ?
I guess you ran out of film before finally getting the formation together huh?
Was it the weather or the challenging terrain that held you back?
Keep practising you'll get it right eventually.
Fly safe
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: Shane Golden
Subject: Yak-List: Selma Photo and Video Links
Here's some Selma photo and video links from David McGirt.
Shane
All,
VIDEOS
Mass Formation Clip ( 70MB )
http://www.mcgirt.net/aviation/10-15-05_RedStar_Flyin_Selma/videos/RedStar%20FunFly%20Selma_Mass_Formation.wmv
Enjoy,
David
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RE: California Fuel Prices |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
You're assimilating well my friend :)
Ernie
On 10/19/05, Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Craig, you're unaware of it because Dave King would never mention it, but
> >Dave, mench that he is, responded to your comments about life at our Marin
> County
> >airport with just one hand. Hardly a week ago, Dave went under the knife to
> >correct a severe left shoulder injury incurred in the line of duty as a
> FAST
> >Instructor. Would be that we all could be as stolid, as brave, as glib. My
> hero.
> >
> >...Blitz
>
> Blitz,
>
> My regards to Dave, I hate knives in the hands of others! I too suffer from
> extreme duty as a FAST Lead at Selma! My butt still aches from parachute
> rigor mortis, compounded by "G" forces and my head from "O" Club excesses.
> No Chi Tea for this transplanted Redneck in Polk County, it's Cuban
> sandwiches and Ybor Gold for a colonic.
>
> You NoCal dudes are OK guys but I can't stand the taste of Wheat Grass
> Smoothies over Pulled Pork BBQ with mashed sweet potato and Grits/W Tomato
> gravy.
>
> Keep on Yakkin'
>
> Craig Payne
> cpayne@joimail.com
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: RE: California Fuel Prices |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Craig "Growler"Payne wrote: "Ybor Gold colonic"
I don't know about you,"Growler", but I prefer to drink my beer before it
passes out my ass not the other way through.
Can't say a Ybor Gold Colonic would peg my fun meter! Each to his own I
guess. Just hate to say seems to be a perfectly good waste of beer after a
particularly outstanding Saturday night at the Major Grumble's Red Air
O'club. No self respecting Red Neck would be caught doing that waisting
beer that is. Well at least those of us outside of the back hills of the
Appalachians that is.
Fly Safe and Check 6,
Doc
Message 32
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| Subject: | Formation Takeoffs |
I am not FAST qualified, and doubtfully ever will be.
We've opened the "why is that" can of worms before with results that were
less than spectacular. So enough on that.
However all that aside, the one thing I have learned while flying form is:
When LEAD is talking, anything that goes wrong is #2's fault, and if push
comes to shove, lead should not even have to THINK about #2 unless it is a
CERTEEE-FIED EMERGENCY.
When Dash 2 is speaking, lead is usually too busy taking care of his fragile
ego and not even considering the fact he has a wingman.
Can I have a patch now?
mgb
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I don't think it has anything to do with #2 being a bit behind on the get
go. Read - It has to do with lead NOT doing what he's suppose to be doing
and that is setting the power so that #2 has ample smash to stay in position
during the formation take off. 95% and 80mm is damn sure not going to stall
the airplane on the climb out. And #2 damn sure will be able to stay in.
I'm not talking about jets Doc because there you will always have more than
enough smash. I'm talking about our measly ol' Yak's and CJ's. If lead
goes at 100% in the Yak or CJ and #2 gets sucked from the get go, then Lead
is a piss poor lead in my opinion.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Hammer,
> I've had it said to me more than once in the fighter community and Lead
> was
> right. Lead does not have time to be jockying the throttle looking back
> over his shoulder at 2 and not clearing the flight path for the two of
> you.
> His job is to safely get two aircraft in the air without hitting someone
> or
> stalling both out of the air. If two is whinning about "lead gimme
> some...lead gimme some.. then both are going to leave the ground near
> stall. Two needs to be ready to go when One's chin touches his chest with
> 100% throttle. Lead will give some but probably not much (maybe 95 to
> 98%).
> No, we do not have blowers to tap in our YAKs....but. In the cold true
> fighter world, it is 2's responsiblity to "be there" and clear leads tail.
> As one old fighter pilot told me at the bar one Friday night as I whinned
> about not being able to stay in position on one particular sortie in So
> Az...2 you f...'d up...quit whinning or bring me some cheese to go with
> it.
> Cold yes..but true.
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 10/19/2005 9:13:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> Thats why I fly armed. If lead says something I dont like I just pop a
>> few off into his fuselage, if he continues, I work my way closer to
>> the cockpit. What I also find it more effective than "Gimme Some" is
>> to shoot holes into 1 or more cylinders. I usually find that the
>> decrease in power is more than sifficient :)
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 10/19/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario
> and getting sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some.
> You can also bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him
> to give me some, that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
>> > Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Roger Kemp
>> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
>> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it
> call it out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely
> he
> is going to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S
> BINGO...LEAD
> YOUR ON FIRE... OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED!
> OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
>> > DOC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Jeff Linebaugh
>> > To: yak-list@matronics. com
>> > Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
>> > Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always
> sets a constant (reduced) power setting so that the
> wingpilot(s)
> have the ability to maintain position. Lead should not (bold,
> italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting power
> based on the wingpilot(s) position.
>> >
>> > If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so
> that they may stay in position, then it will force Lead into
> spending too much time looking at the wingie. The Lead should
> be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross checking the
> wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are able
> to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If
> a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if
> reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
>> >
>> > Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of
> your prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical,
> necessitating full power takeoffs, then they should be made single
> ship. Another option would be to have the lower powered
> aircraft
> be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
>> >
>> > Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people
> might get the wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jeff Linebaugh
>> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> > CJ-6P N621CJ
>> > Memphis, TN
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Formation Takeoffs |
Mark,
Needed to be at SEM this past weekend. We winged a bunch of them. Bet you could
have been there with us. You've seen enough of that kinda stuff in the A-6! I
forgot you guys did a lot of single ship ingressing feet dry over the fishhead
and rice eaters land in the dark.
Try for Waycross. You will be at an advantage with that 50! No IP in your trunk.
Hell, for you up there on the windblown frozen marshlands of Cherry Point, coming
down to Waycross will be like coming south for the winter. Heck you should
be able to leave the long underware and insulated flight jacket at home!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
I am not FAST qualified, and doubtfully ever will be.
We've opened the "why is that" can of worms before with results that were less
than spectacular. So enough on that.
However all that aside, the one thing I have learned while flying form is:
When LEAD is talking, anything that goes wrong is #2's fault, and if push comes
to shove, lead should not even have to THINK about #2 unless it is a CERTEEE-FIED
EMERGENCY.
When Dash 2 is speaking, lead is usually too busy taking care of his fragile ego
and not even considering the fact he has a wingman.
Can I have a patch now?
mgb
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I don't think it has anything to do with #2 being a bit behind on the get
go. Read - It has to do with lead NOT doing what he's suppose to be doing
and that is setting the power so that #2 has ample smash to stay in position
during the formation take off. 95% and 80mm is damn sure not going to stall
the airplane on the climb out. And #2 damn sure will be able to stay in.
I'm not talking about jets Doc because there you will always have more than
enough smash. I'm talking about our measly ol' Yak's and CJ's. If lead
goes at 100% in the Yak or CJ and #2 gets sucked from the get go, then Lead
is a piss poor lead in my opinion.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Hammer,
> I've had it said to me more than once in the fighter community and Lead
> was
> right. Lead does not have time to be jockying the throttle looking back
> over his shoulder at 2 and not clearing the flight path for the two of
> you.
> His job is to safely get two aircraft in the air without hitting someone
> or
> stalling both out of the air. If two is whinning about "lead gimme
> some...lead gimme some.. then both are going to leave the ground near
> stall. Two needs to be ready to go when One's chin touches his chest with
> 100% throttle. Lead will give some but probably not much (maybe 95 to
> 98%).
> No, we do not have blowers to tap in our YAKs....but. In the cold true
> fighter world, it is 2's responsiblity to "be there" and clear leads tail.
> As one old fighter pilot told me at the bar one Friday night as I whinned
> about not being able to stay in position on one particular sortie in So
> Az...2 you f...'d up...quit whinning or bring me some cheese to go with
> it.
> Cold yes..but true.
> Doc
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 10/19/2005 9:13:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> Thats why I fly armed. If lead says something I dont like I just pop a
>> few off into his fuselage, if he continues, I work my way closer to
>> the cockpit. What I also find it more effective than "Gimme Some" is
>> to shoot holes into 1 or more cylinders. I usually find that the
>> decrease in power is more than sifficient :)
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 10/19/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Don't you think that's a bit harsh Doc. If I were #2 in that scenario
> and getting sucked on the T.O., you can bet I'd ask lead to give me some.
> You can also bet that if lead said to me, "shut up 2" because I asked him
> to give me some, that would be the last time I'd fly form with him.
>> > Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Roger Kemp
>> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:38 AM
>> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Shack.. Linedogg. TWO FLIES OFF ONE on Form TO. If 2 can't hack it
> call it out! As lead though he may give you some but more than likely
> he
> is going to say SHUT UP 2! ALL I WANT HEAR FROM YOU IS 2'S
> BINGO...LEAD
> YOUR ON FIRE... OR LEAD "BREAK" BANDIT AT__ O'CLOCK ...2'S ENGAGED!
> OTHERWISE...HACK IT!
>> > DOC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Jeff Linebaugh
>> > To: yak-list@matronics. com
>> > Sent: 10/19/2005 7:28:54 AM
>> > Subject: Yak-List: Formation Takeoffs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Just for clarification: On formation takeoffs, Lead always
> sets a constant (reduced) power setting so that the
> wingpilot(s)
> have the ability to maintain position. Lead should not (bold,
> italic, underlined, emphasized) be constantly adjusting power
> based on the wingpilot(s) position.
>> >
>> > If Lead was to "fly off" the wing pilot, adjusting power so
> that they may stay in position, then it will force Lead into
> spending too much time looking at the wingie. The Lead should
> be concentrating on clearing for the flight. Cross checking the
> wingpilot(s) is proper, but watching them so closely that you are able
> to vary power setting based on their bearing line position is not. If
> a wingpilot needs a power correction, they should call it out, and, if
> reasonable, the Lead should comply. It is 2 who flies off Lead.
>> >
>> > Batman, you were just being anecdotal, discussing the merits of
> your prop, weren't you? If runway length or climb were critical,
> necessitating full power takeoffs, then they should be made single
> ship. Another option would be to have the lower powered
> aircraft
> be Lead and set full power (if proficient as Lead).
>> >
>> > Sorry, I usually just try to lurk, but was afraid people
> might get the wrong idea about formation takeoffs...Thanks...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jeff Linebaugh
>> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> > CJ-6P N621CJ
>> > Memphis, TN
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
Message 34
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Its 1:15am (0115 for you mil- types) and I am drunk. Do not,, gentle
soles, try to out drink an k true blue acro pilot. MY new neighbor (who brought
mh fellow airline budy and good friends home) is an Extra 300+ sales guy. He
does acro all day demo airplanes for customers. (Jay, you whom I speakth).
After reliving our life stories, I discovered, he is the son of "The Great
Santeenie". Anyway I know now that your physical body CANNNOT brake a
Extra 300 (or what ever he sells), so that feeble attempts to play fighter pilots
in Yaks or CJ is damn right dangerous or dumb.
He also cooks a veryt good steak (midim rear for me ) and we drank 3 bottles
of vine to make sure it went down smooth. We did soap up the vine with sour
dough bread too. We did this of coruse discussin plans and waiting for
Wilma. We have our planes of course and will attempts to do them - - - -
tomoprrow.
Pappu
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: California Fuel Prices |
In a message dated 10/19/2005 9:01:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
KingCJ6@aol.com writes:
Craig - your comments relative to our fine aerodrome are only partially
correct:
Chi tea has easily surpassed the "so 90's" Latte in consumption; high
colonics are also a welcome available relief after a tense form flight.
Our fuel valets, most with PHd's in philosophy, only wear white gloves on
Tuesdays and alternating Saturdays. Other glove-color-of-the-days are
determined by seasonal patterns and cousultation with various local psychics.
The palatial fuel waiting suite does have a sweeping view of the Barbara
Boxer Memorial Swamp Flea Lagoon, but last week one of our 6 plasma TVs went
Tango Uniform, so we now fight over which screen gets Geraldo.
DVO is only a short limo ride from the childhood home of Johnny Walker, the
"Talaban Kid".
The recycle fees for Marvel Mystery Oil, dispensed from our vending machine,
was just reduced to $75/pint.
We house the rainbow-adorned regional headquarters for the Gay Airline
Pilots Association.
While our landing fees are not overly indulgent, we do ask that you provide
advance proof of a line-of-credit to cover our overnight tie-down donations.
We welcome all Yaksters! Please contact Sandiee for potential available
landing slots in '06.
Dave
NOW that say's like it is The facts and nothing but the facts Dave sounds
just like
Sergeant Friday!
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