Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:22 AM - Re: EP of the Day (Rob Rowe)
2. 06:39 AM - Re: EP of the Day (Ernest Martinez)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: EP of the Day (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: EP of the Day (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: EP of the Day (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: EP of the Day (Roger Kemp)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: EP of the Day (Roger Kemp)
8. 07:19 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Yaks from Lithuania (Roger Kemp)
9. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: EP of the Day (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: Camden, SC airshow. (Roger Kemp)
11. 07:28 AM - Re: "Whaddizzitt?" (Roger Kemp)
12. 07:30 AM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Roger Kemp)
13. 07:50 AM - website for the Naval Museum at Pensacola (Roger Kemp)
14. 08:08 AM - Re: SR-71 (Barry Hancock)
15. 08:15 AM - Re: "Whaddizzitt?" (Cliff Umscheid)
16. 08:26 AM - Re: Yaks from Lithuania (Doug Sapp)
17. 08:29 AM - Re: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve (Doug Sapp)
18. 09:10 AM - Re: "Whaddizzitt?" (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 09:57 AM - All Red Star V (ByronMFox@aol.com)
20. 10:05 AM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
21. 10:19 AM - Re: front cockpit brake handle (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
22. 10:30 AM - For KP ref Whaddizzitt (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
23. 11:36 AM - Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (Rob Rowe)
24. 12:06 PM - Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (Doug Sapp)
25. 12:10 PM - For your amusement ... are these your SOPs? (Rob Rowe)
26. 12:25 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (Brian Lloyd)
27. 01:00 PM - Yak 52 census online ! (Jerome van der Schaar)
28. 01:38 PM - Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (Craig Payne)
29. 01:43 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Dr Andre Katz)
30. 02:37 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (A. Dennis Savarese)
31. 02:52 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (A. Dennis Savarese)
32. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (A. Dennis Savarese)
33. 03:11 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (Brian Lloyd)
34. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (Brian Lloyd)
35. 03:21 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Ron Spencer)
36. 03:29 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (A. Dennis Savarese)
37. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (A. Dennis Savarese)
38. 03:50 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (Roger Kemp)
39. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today (Roger Kemp)
40. 03:56 PM - More FSDO Funnies (Craig Payne)
41. 04:31 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Roger Kemp)
42. 04:36 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (DaBear)
43. 05:00 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Bob Fitzpatrick)
44. 05:36 PM - Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" (Roger Kemp)
45. 07:31 PM - Re: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve (Cliff Umscheid)
46. 07:34 PM - Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk (cjpilot710@aol.com)
47. 08:40 PM - Is Nomex good enough? (gpa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
Doc / Dennis,
Assuming a -52 ... we've got;
- only starboard gear leg with a problem
- with an ongoing significant main air leak (8-15 kgf/cm2 below 50 kgf/cm2
norm)
- and a "thunk" so gear leg probably not secured by uplock
Shuttle valve - ruled out as this only protects gear extension and is vented
during retraction.
Emergency air cock - probably ruled out as significant leakage from
emergency air would close the common protection valve and impact all the
gear. Gear would probably be kept up as emergency air is working against the
retraction main air pressure. Duration of flight is not mentioned (or status
of emergency air pressure) but if this was the problem then expect to
progressively see all the gear red lights go out as each uplock is released
... drag on gear being sufficient to trip off the warning light
micro-switches. Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
needed). If uplock chevron seal(s) compromised, or actuator corroded, then
main air pressure would have been very low when gear down (air fed to uplock
actuator leak) on warm up / taxi as low engine / compressor rpm inefficient
at recharging main air system compared to in-flight. Plus air pressure
recorded as dropping post TO so problem apparent when uplock circuit no
longer active (vented). Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
Gear actuator (starboard) - possible that the;
- "up" chevron seal has been partially compromised
- actuator surface corroded at fully retracted position
- "up" air feed pipes have a partial leak (joint connection or pipe
corrosion)
... allowing sufficient air pressure for gear to be raised but not enough to
positively engage with the uplock mechanism ... hence drag on gear trips off
the warning light micro-switch. Barber pole appears flush as mechanical
linkage movement is limited at extremities. Main air pressure varies with
engine rpm as variable compressor output attempts to restore main air
pressure against ongoing leak.
Recommend ground check of;
- uplock release mechanism ... check for free movement of the spring loaded
latch (as general pre-flight check too)
- raise on jacks to localise problem while cycling the gear
FWIW that's my theory ... so what really happened!
Rob
-------
Subject: EP of the Day
From: Roger Kemp (viperdoc@mindspring.com)
Yakkers,
I'll get this thread started.
You've done the pre-flight. Have strapped in for a solo acro flight with a
bright
eyed bushy tailed young 2nd Lt about to leave for UPT. You light the fire,
warmed her up, and taxi into position on the runway. Normal runup, systems
check,
cycle the controls, push the power up and off you go into the wild blue
yonder.
When you cycle the gear up, you notice that the right main red gearup light
does not come on. The three green gear up lamps have gone out. A quick look
at the Barbara poles show that the gear is retracted with the poles showing
flush in the wings and nose. Your air pressure on TO was 40 ATM and is now
35
ATM. It varies around 37 and 42 atm when the power is changed and as the
flight
progresses. Wing rock and pitching up/ down to G up the aircraft does
not cause a change in the unlit R main light but the barbara pole remains
down
in the wing.
So you press on with the acro introduction flight. Coming thru the back side
of
a Loop you feel a hard thunk! A quick sytem check shows all is well with
fuel
balanced, air, oil, and engine instruments are in the green. You ask your
pitter
is he is ok and was that him getting light in the seat since you bunted a
little at the top of the loop before pulling down the back side. He states
he
was well strapped in and it was not him. He thought the Thunk came from the
aft
end of the aircraft. You Knock It OFF and RTB uneventfully. On shutdown, you
notice your air pressure at 35 atms. You inspect the right main with nothing
obviously hanging off.
What's the problem? Is it OK to take her up for that second intro flight?
Was it
just the light burned out and you need to change it?
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
If the barber poles were all the way up, the R micro switch is flopping around.
Ernie
On 10/30/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Ray,
> Not possible in a standard Yak. The standard Yak (non 52W or TW) does not
> have the emergency bleed knob as does the W or TW. The barber poles are
> completely retracted as they would appear if the main landing gear were
> indicating up and locked by the red UP lamp.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: FamilyGage@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
>
>
> There is probably some pressure built up from a small air leak from the
> emergency air system which is just enough to not allow the gear to
> completely reach and engage to uplock. Open the right rear emergency bleed
> value and that will release the pressure.
>
> Wolfman
> Ray
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Rob,
You are dead on the money! It was the uplock jammed in the open.So I was
venting air over the side. We had serviced and rebuilt that up lock about 3
months before but the quality of the orings in the rebuild kit was not up
to snuff. The actuator jammed in the open position. The air pressure was
around 35 at the end of taxi (about 3/4 mi with a 10-12 kt X wind).
Therefore it was assumed that the lower pressure was from the intermitant
but stead use of the right brake for taxi. It was also noticed that with
runup for mag check and cycle prop, the air pressure rose to almost 40 atm.
Dennis can fill all in on the exact findings and how we tracked it down.
Good job Rob!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Rob Rowe <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
> To: <Yak-List@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/31/2005 7:22:00 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: EP of the Day
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
>
> Doc / Dennis,
>
> Assuming a -52 ... we've got;
>
> - only starboard gear leg with a problem
> - with an ongoing significant main air leak (8-15 kgf/cm2 below 50 kgf/cm2
> norm)
> - and a "thunk" so gear leg probably not secured by uplock
>
> Shuttle valve - ruled out as this only protects gear extension and is
vented
> during retraction.
>
> Emergency air cock - probably ruled out as significant leakage from
> emergency air would close the common protection valve and impact all the
> gear. Gear would probably be kept up as emergency air is working against
the
> retraction main air pressure. Duration of flight is not mentioned (or
status
> of emergency air pressure) but if this was the problem then expect to
> progressively see all the gear red lights go out as each uplock is
released
> ... drag on gear being sufficient to trip off the warning light
> micro-switches. Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
> open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
> needed). If uplock chevron seal(s) compromised, or actuator corroded, then
> main air pressure would have been very low when gear down (air fed to
uplock
> actuator leak) on warm up / taxi as low engine / compressor rpm
inefficient
> at recharging main air system compared to in-flight. Plus air pressure
> recorded as dropping post TO so problem apparent when uplock circuit no
> longer active (vented). Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Gear actuator (starboard) - possible that the;
> - "up" chevron seal has been partially compromised
> - actuator surface corroded at fully retracted position
> - "up" air feed pipes have a partial leak (joint connection or pipe
> corrosion)
> ... allowing sufficient air pressure for gear to be raised but not enough
to
> positively engage with the uplock mechanism ... hence drag on gear trips
off
> the warning light micro-switch. Barber pole appears flush as mechanical
> linkage movement is limited at extremities. Main air pressure varies with
> engine rpm as variable compressor output attempts to restore main air
> pressure against ongoing leak.
>
> Recommend ground check of;
> - uplock release mechanism ... check for free movement of the spring
loaded
> latch (as general pre-flight check too)
> - raise on jacks to localise problem while cycling the gear
>
> FWIW that's my theory ... so what really happened!
>
> Rob
>
>
> -------
> Subject: EP of the Day
> From: Roger Kemp (viperdoc@mindspring.com)
> Date: Sun Oct 30 - 6:36 AM
>
> Yakkers,
> I'll get this thread started.
> You've done the pre-flight. Have strapped in for a solo acro flight with a
> bright
> eyed bushy tailed young 2nd Lt about to leave for UPT. You light the fire,
> warmed her up, and taxi into position on the runway. Normal runup, systems
> check,
> cycle the controls, push the power up and off you go into the wild blue
> yonder.
> When you cycle the gear up, you notice that the right main red gearup
light
> does not come on. The three green gear up lamps have gone out. A quick
look
> at the Barbara poles show that the gear is retracted with the poles
showing
> flush in the wings and nose. Your air pressure on TO was 40 ATM and is
now
> 35
> ATM. It varies around 37 and 42 atm when the power is changed and as the
> flight
> progresses. Wing rock and pitching up/ down to G up the aircraft does
> not cause a change in the unlit R main light but the barbara pole remains
> down
> in the wing.
> So you press on with the acro introduction flight. Coming thru the back
side
> of
> a Loop you feel a hard thunk! A quick sytem check shows all is well with
> fuel
> balanced, air, oil, and engine instruments are in the green. You ask your
> pitter
> is he is ok and was that him getting light in the seat since you bunted a
> little at the top of the loop before pulling down the back side. He states
> he
> was well strapped in and it was not him. He thought the Thunk came from
the
> aft
> end of the aircraft. You Knock It OFF and RTB uneventfully. On shutdown,
you
> notice your air pressure at 35 atms. You inspect the right main with
nothing
> obviously hanging off.
> What's the problem? Is it OK to take her up for that second intro flight?
> Was it
> just the light burned out and you need to change it?
> Doc
>
> Roger "Doc" Kemp
> viperdoc@mindspring.com
> Aint no sound like a Radial
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Not quite Ernie. I'll be posting a comprehensive reply here in a few
minutes. I'm just finishing up the email.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> If the barber poles were all the way up, the R micro switch is flopping
> around.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 10/30/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ray,
>> Not possible in a standard Yak. The standard Yak (non 52W or TW) does
>> not
>> have the emergency bleed knob as does the W or TW. The barber poles are
>> completely retracted as they would appear if the main landing gear were
>> indicating up and locked by the red UP lamp.
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: FamilyGage@aol.com
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
>>
>>
>> There is probably some pressure built up from a small air leak from the
>> emergency air system which is just enough to not allow the gear to
>> completely reach and engage to uplock. Open the right rear emergency
>> bleed
>> value and that will release the pressure.
>>
>> Wolfman
>> Ray
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Rob,
You've touched on most all areas that could have an effect on the situation.
But the one that is right on target is -
"Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
needed)."
There were actually two separate issues here. First situation was the
internal seal in the starboard uplock actuator was leaking, causing the air
pressure to leak down. It could be heard after engine shutdown. Rebuilding
the actuator solved that problem. But the second situation is the real
lesson here. Assuming all lamps are functioning normally, when the landing
gear retracts the pressure in the uplock actuators is removed causing the
internal spring in the uplock actuator to retract the pin. With the pin
retracted, when the gear is moving into the "parrot hook", the mechanical
mechanism latches the "parrot hook" around the scissor roller AND thus
activates the micro switch (the red UP lamp) on the uplock assembly. The
"parrot hook" must close/latch completely for the UP lamp to come on via the
activation of the micro switch.
The scenario Doc experienced was a thump or clunk when the airplane was
unloaded (negative G) followed by positive G. What caused this problem was
the starboard gear scissor roller was banging (the thump being heard)
because the uplock actuator pin never retracted into the actuator. Thus the
mechanical release mechanism which releases the "parrot hook" when the gear
selector is moved to the DOWN position, never was released. The "parrot
hook
remained in the down/open position. So when the scissor roller entered the
parrot hook, the spring loaded parrot hook rotated as if going into the lock
position. But because the uplock actuator pin never retracted, it caused
the mechanical latch to remain unlatched all the time. When the airplane
was
unloaded just a slight bit, the scissor roller would move downward/away from
the parrot hook pulling
the parrot hook with it and when the airplane's G load went positive, the
scissor roller would push the parrot hook back up (remember, the uplock
actuator pin has the mechanical latch always open - just as it would be when
the gear is moved to the down position) and a thump or clunk would be heard.
What was found was gunk in the uplock actuator which prevented the internal
spring in the uplock actuator from pushing the pin back into the actuator
when pressure was released (selecting DOWN on the gear handle) thus
releasing the mechanical parrot hook latch. So the parrot hook always was
effectively open and just flipping back and forth because of the spring that
holds it in the open position.
If your barber poles are fully retracting and the UP lamp is good and when
you retract your landing gear you don't get an UP lamp, first suspect the
uplock assembly which includes the actuator. Take a look at the pin in the
actuator. If the pin is not fully retracted into the uplock actuator, pull
the actuator, disassemble it and put a new seal kit in it.
This was an interesting scenario. BTW, it's a good idea to pull at least
one uplock actuator during an annual to see if there is a lot of moisture
and corrosion inside. If one is gunked up or corroded or both, pull all
three (or two as with TW's).
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: EP of the Day
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
>
> Doc / Dennis,
>
> Assuming a -52 ... we've got;
>
> - only starboard gear leg with a problem
> - with an ongoing significant main air leak (8-15 kgf/cm2 below 50 kgf/cm2
> norm)
> - and a "thunk" so gear leg probably not secured by uplock
>
> Shuttle valve - ruled out as this only protects gear extension and is
> vented
> during retraction.
>
> Emergency air cock - probably ruled out as significant leakage from
> emergency air would close the common protection valve and impact all the
> gear. Gear would probably be kept up as emergency air is working against
> the
> retraction main air pressure. Duration of flight is not mentioned (or
> status
> of emergency air pressure) but if this was the problem then expect to
> progressively see all the gear red lights go out as each uplock is
> released
> ... drag on gear being sufficient to trip off the warning light
> micro-switches. Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
> open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
> needed). If uplock chevron seal(s) compromised, or actuator corroded, then
> main air pressure would have been very low when gear down (air fed to
> uplock
> actuator leak) on warm up / taxi as low engine / compressor rpm
> inefficient
> at recharging main air system compared to in-flight. Plus air pressure
> recorded as dropping post TO so problem apparent when uplock circuit no
> longer active (vented). Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Gear actuator (starboard) - possible that the;
> - "up" chevron seal has been partially compromised
> - actuator surface corroded at fully retracted position
> - "up" air feed pipes have a partial leak (joint connection or pipe
> corrosion)
> ... allowing sufficient air pressure for gear to be raised but not enough
> to
> positively engage with the uplock mechanism ... hence drag on gear trips
> off
> the warning light micro-switch. Barber pole appears flush as mechanical
> linkage movement is limited at extremities. Main air pressure varies with
> engine rpm as variable compressor output attempts to restore main air
> pressure against ongoing leak.
>
> Recommend ground check of;
> - uplock release mechanism ... check for free movement of the spring
> loaded
> latch (as general pre-flight check too)
> - raise on jacks to localise problem while cycling the gear
>
> FWIW that's my theory ... so what really happened!
>
> Rob
>
>
> -------
> Subject: EP of the Day
> From: Roger Kemp (viperdoc@mindspring.com)
> Date: Sun Oct 30 - 6:36 AM
>
> Yakkers,
> I'll get this thread started.
> You've done the pre-flight. Have strapped in for a solo acro flight with a
> bright
> eyed bushy tailed young 2nd Lt about to leave for UPT. You light the fire,
> warmed her up, and taxi into position on the runway. Normal runup, systems
> check,
> cycle the controls, push the power up and off you go into the wild blue
> yonder.
> When you cycle the gear up, you notice that the right main red gearup
> light
> does not come on. The three green gear up lamps have gone out. A quick
> look
> at the Barbara poles show that the gear is retracted with the poles
> showing
> flush in the wings and nose. Your air pressure on TO was 40 ATM and is
> now
> 35
> ATM. It varies around 37 and 42 atm when the power is changed and as the
> flight
> progresses. Wing rock and pitching up/ down to G up the aircraft does
> not cause a change in the unlit R main light but the barbara pole remains
> down
> in the wing.
> So you press on with the acro introduction flight. Coming thru the back
> side
> of
> a Loop you feel a hard thunk! A quick sytem check shows all is well with
> fuel
> balanced, air, oil, and engine instruments are in the green. You ask your
> pitter
> is he is ok and was that him getting light in the seat since you bunted a
> little at the top of the loop before pulling down the back side. He states
> he
> was well strapped in and it was not him. He thought the Thunk came from
> the
> aft
> end of the aircraft. You Knock It OFF and RTB uneventfully. On shutdown,
> you
> notice your air pressure at 35 atms. You inspect the right main with
> nothing
> obviously hanging off.
> What's the problem? Is it OK to take her up for that second intro flight?
> Was it
> just the light burned out and you need to change it?
> Doc
>
> Roger "Doc" Kemp
> viperdoc@mindspring.com
> Aint no sound like a Radial
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Actually,
The uplock was jammed in the open postion by the actuator plunger being
extended so the parot hook could not close and secure the gear. The air
pressure variance was from the constant venting of air overboard.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/31/2005 8:39:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> If the barber poles were all the way up, the R micro switch is flopping
around.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 10/30/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ray,
> > Not possible in a standard Yak. The standard Yak (non 52W or TW) does
not
> > have the emergency bleed knob as does the W or TW. The barber poles are
> > completely retracted as they would appear if the main landing gear were
> > indicating up and locked by the red UP lamp.
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: FamilyGage@aol.com
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
> >
> >
> > There is probably some pressure built up from a small air leak from the
> > emergency air system which is just enough to not allow the gear to
> > completely reach and engage to uplock. Open the right rear emergency
bleed
> > value and that will release the pressure.
> >
> > Wolfman
> > Ray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
short but sweat correct. See my other emails for the long winded answers.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/30/2005 4:10:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Sounds to me like the uplocks didnt engage, probably due to an air
> leak in one of the actuators, so you cant get the gear all the way up.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 10/30/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thanks Dennis,
> > Will call you on the way to Birmingham.
> > Doc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: A. Dennis Savarese
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: 10/30/2005 9:12:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Day
> >
> >
> > I'll refrain from answering this Doc since I was involved in the
diagnosis
> > and repair. But a great, thought provoking question for the group!
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roger Kemp
> > To: yak-list
> > Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:35 AM
> > Subject: Yak-List: EP of the Day
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yakkers,
> > I'll get this thread started.
> > You've done the pre-flight. Have strapped in for a solo acro flight
with a
> > bright eyed bushy tailed young 2nd Lt about to leave for UPT. You light
the
> > fire, warmed her up, and taxi into position on the runway. Normal runup,
> > systems check, cycle the controls, push the power up and off you go
into the
> > wild blue yonder. When you cycle the gear up, you notice that the right
main
> > red gearup light does not come on. The three green gear up lamps have
gone
> > out. A quick look at the Barbara poles show that the gear is retracted
with
> > the poles showing flush in the wings and nose. Your air pressure on TO
was
> > 40 ATM and is now 35 ATM. It varies around 37 and 42 atm when the
power is
> > changed and as the flight progresses. Wing rock and pitching up/
down to
> > G up the aircraft does not cause a change in the unlit R main light but
the
> > barbara pole remains down in the wing.
> > So you press on with the acro introduction flight. Coming thru the back
side
> > of a Loop you feel a hard thunk! A quick sytem check shows all is well
with
> > fuel balanced, air, oil, and engine instruments are in the green. You
ask
> > your pitter is he is ok and was that him getting light in the seat
since you
> > bunted a little at the top of the loop before pulling down the back
side. He
> > states he was well strapped in and it was not him. He thought the Thunk
> > came from the aft end of the aircraft. You Knock It OFF and RTB
> > uneventfully. On shutdown, you notice your air pressure at 35 atms. You
> > inspect the right main with nothing obviously hanging off.
> > What's the problem? Is it OK to take her up for that second intro
flight?
> > Was it just the light burned out and you need to change it?
> > Doc
> >
> > Roger "Doc" Kemp
> > viperdoc@mindspring.com
> > Aint no sound like a Radial
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Yaks from Lithuania |
Yep,
That is who did the restoration on my YAK. Talk to Dennis Savarese.
Contact me off list with your questions.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: egon
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Yak-List: Yaks from Lithuania
has anyone delt with a chap in Vilnius in Lithuania by the name of Litauras
Dziuzas
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Day |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Rob,
You've touched on most all areas that could have an effect on the situation.
But the one that is right on target is -
"Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
needed)."
There were actually two separate issues here. First situation was the
internal seal in the starboard uplock actuator was leaking, causing the air
pressure to leak down. It could be heard after engine shutdown. Rebuilding
the actuator solved that problem. But the second situation is the real
lesson here. Assuming all lamps are functioning normally, when the landing
gear retracts the pressure in the uplock actuators is removed causing the
internal spring in the uplock actuator to retract the pin. With the pin
retracted, when the gear is moving into the "parrot hook", the mechanical
mechanism latches the "parrot hook" around the scissor roller AND thus
activates the micro switch (the red UP lamp) on the uplock assembly. The
"parrot hook" must close/latch completely for the UP lamp to come on via the
activation of the micro switch.
The scenario Doc experienced was a thump or clunk when the airplane was
unloaded (negative G) followed by positive G. What caused this problem was
the starboard gear scissor roller was banging (the thump being heard)
because the uplock actuator pin never retracted into the actuator. Thus the
mechanical release mechanism which releases the "parrot hook" when the gear
selector is moved to the DOWN position, never was released. The "parrot
hook
remained in the down/open position. So when the scissor roller entered the
parrot hook, the spring loaded parrot hook rotated as if going into the lock
position. But because the uplock actuator pin never retracted, it caused
the mechanical latch to remain unlatched all the time. When the airplane
was
unloaded just a slight bit, the scissor roller would move downward/away from
the parrot hook pulling
the parrot hook with it and when the airplane's G load went positive, the
scissor roller would push the parrot hook back up (remember, the uplock
actuator pin has the mechanical latch always open - just as it would be when
the gear is moved to the down position) and a thump or clunk would be heard.
What was found was gunk in the uplock actuator which prevented the internal
spring in the uplock actuator from pushing the pin back into the actuator
when pressure was released (selecting DOWN on the gear handle) thus
releasing the mechanical parrot hook latch. So the parrot hook always was
effectively open and just flipping back and forth because of the spring that
holds it in the open position.
If your barber poles are fully retracting and the UP lamp is good and when
you retract your landing gear you don't get an UP lamp, first suspect the
uplock assembly which includes the actuator. Take a look at the pin in the
actuator. If the pin is not fully retracted into the uplock actuator, pull
the actuator, disassemble it and put a new seal kit in it.
This was an interesting scenario. BTW, it's a good idea to pull at least
one uplock actuator during an annual to see if there is a lot of moisture
and corrosion inside. If one is gunked up or corroded or both, pull all
three (or two as with TW's).
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: EP of the Day
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
>
> Doc / Dennis,
>
> Assuming a -52 ... we've got;
>
> - only starboard gear leg with a problem
> - with an ongoing significant main air leak (8-15 kgf/cm2 below 50 kgf/cm2
> norm)
> - and a "thunk" so gear leg probably not secured by uplock
>
> Shuttle valve - ruled out as this only protects gear extension and is
> vented
> during retraction.
>
> Emergency air cock - probably ruled out as significant leakage from
> emergency air would close the common protection valve and impact all the
> gear. Gear would probably be kept up as emergency air is working against
> the
> retraction main air pressure. Duration of flight is not mentioned (or
> status
> of emergency air pressure) but if this was the problem then expect to
> progressively see all the gear red lights go out as each uplock is
> released
> ... drag on gear being sufficient to trip off the warning light
> micro-switches. Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
> open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
> needed). If uplock chevron seal(s) compromised, or actuator corroded, then
> main air pressure would have been very low when gear down (air fed to
> uplock
> actuator leak) on warm up / taxi as low engine / compressor rpm
> inefficient
> at recharging main air system compared to in-flight. Plus air pressure
> recorded as dropping post TO so problem apparent when uplock circuit no
> longer active (vented). Does not explain main air low pressure in-flight.
>
> Gear actuator (starboard) - possible that the;
> - "up" chevron seal has been partially compromised
> - actuator surface corroded at fully retracted position
> - "up" air feed pipes have a partial leak (joint connection or pipe
> corrosion)
> ... allowing sufficient air pressure for gear to be raised but not enough
> to
> positively engage with the uplock mechanism ... hence drag on gear trips
> off
> the warning light micro-switch. Barber pole appears flush as mechanical
> linkage movement is limited at extremities. Main air pressure varies with
> engine rpm as variable compressor output attempts to restore main air
> pressure against ongoing leak.
>
> Recommend ground check of;
> - uplock release mechanism ... check for free movement of the spring
> loaded
> latch (as general pre-flight check too)
> - raise on jacks to localise problem while cycling the gear
>
> FWIW that's my theory ... so what really happened!
>
> Rob
>
>
> -------
> Subject: EP of the Day
> From: Roger Kemp (viperdoc@mindspring.com)
> Date: Sun Oct 30 - 6:36 AM
>
> Yakkers,
> I'll get this thread started.
> You've done the pre-flight. Have strapped in for a solo acro flight with a
> bright
> eyed bushy tailed young 2nd Lt about to leave for UPT. You light the fire,
> warmed her up, and taxi into position on the runway. Normal runup, systems
> check,
> cycle the controls, push the power up and off you go into the wild blue
> yonder.
> When you cycle the gear up, you notice that the right main red gearup
> light
> does not come on. The three green gear up lamps have gone out. A quick
> look
> at the Barbara poles show that the gear is retracted with the poles
> showing
> flush in the wings and nose. Your air pressure on TO was 40 ATM and is
> now
> 35
> ATM. It varies around 37 and 42 atm when the power is changed and as the
> flight
> progresses. Wing rock and pitching up/ down to G up the aircraft does
> not cause a change in the unlit R main light but the barbara pole remains
> down
> in the wing.
> So you press on with the acro introduction flight. Coming thru the back
> side
> of
> a Loop you feel a hard thunk! A quick sytem check shows all is well with
> fuel
> balanced, air, oil, and engine instruments are in the green. You ask your
> pitter
> is he is ok and was that him getting light in the seat since you bunted a
> little at the top of the loop before pulling down the back side. He states
> he
> was well strapped in and it was not him. He thought the Thunk came from
> the
> aft
> end of the aircraft. You Knock It OFF and RTB uneventfully. On shutdown,
> you
> notice your air pressure at 35 atms. You inspect the right main with
> nothing
> obviously hanging off.
> What's the problem? Is it OK to take her up for that second intro flight?
> Was it
> just the light burned out and you need to change it?
> Doc
>
> Roger "Doc" Kemp
> viperdoc@mindspring.com
> Aint no sound like a Radial
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Camden, SC airshow. |
Pappy,
You get to have way to much fun!
Life is good when you can retire with your health. You are living my dream!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Yak-List: Camden, SC airshow.
These folks really know how to run a show. Unlike last year the crowd appeared
to be a little less and there were fewer planes there too. But the group that
runs it - runs it very well.
First our fuel tanks were never empty.
We each had a very nice rental car. With our own special parking right near the
ramp.
Best Western had rooms waiting in our names.
My total check in time with the lady in charge (including getting my free rental
car) was not even 5 minutes.
We were given $10 in meal tickets for any of the food venders PLUS there was a
VIP tent with free eats too.
We had 3 Yaks and my CJ there. Stu Mosby, Shane Golden, Bob Langford and myself.
Stu ran afile the feds (6 of them!) there for some missing paper work so wasn't
able to fly in the show. We did our best with a 3 ship. It wasn't a big
show but a nice little one.
Best restaurant to eat in Camden? The Padlock. There were about 20 airborne troop
re enactors there too, singing "There was blood upon his risers, there was
blood upon his chute - - -" song. The locals were amused and Bob being a former
airborne type bought them a round. Great food - great evening. That was
Friday night. Saturday night they had a fried chicken or catfish dinner under
the stars with a 3 piece band. Really nice.
The flight up I took off with low ground fog thick on the runway up to about 30
or 40 feet. I had to taxi the length to make sure it was clear. When I got
to the end and turned around, I found my prop wash had stirred up the air enough
to clear the runway. I took off into CAVU skies. ( 2:15 - (292 nm) from start
up to shut down). That was the same weather for Saturday and today. After
we did our show bit, we landed, tanked up, Bob and Shane put their GIBs OB and
we blasted off again. Coming home at 6,500 I was doing 135 kts IAS with a
GS of 147 kts. I trim the CJ out. I actually timed 12 minuets of pure hands
off trimmed flight. I didn't see any clouds until 35 nm from home base, and it
was just some scattered stuff. 2:05 from start up to shut down.
Life is good.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: "Whaddizzitt?" |
Ok, the he was a she while we thought it was a he, so She really is a She. Or a
far leaning to the left he! A cross dresser he might be but ....
The answer really is she is a she. She told us somewhere in this past day's thread.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: "Whaddizzitt?"
In a message dated 10/29/2005 9:40:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Valkyre1@comcast.net
writes:
God! If you're a woman I divorce my wife of 40 years and marry you! If not -
- - well welcome to the club fella.
Pappy
Hey again Guys,
Yep, I'm still "lurking" around out here as Doc so succinctly put it. I'm also
getting a lot of chuckles as well as info on the YAK and CJ6 re: my intent
to purchase. Evidently I started some friendly fire amongst you which you are
enjoying as much as I am.
I've received information on a beautiful and fully loaded almost new YAK for
sale by two of my airline brethren. They love it, but both airlines are in
or near bankruptcy and taking their ton of flesh out of the pilots.
Next Tues I will be going to Portland to fly and inspect the particular CJ6
that I am considering. (I'm excited for sure.) It's older than the YAK, we
will see what comes of it. That's your first mystery.
The second mystery for some of you is in the form of a riddle. ( Cliff, "older
than dirt" might enjoy this more than most).
Here goes... "It rides a Harley V-Rod. It has been in martial arts for 19
years and teaches "cockpit combat" to flight crews. It flew Captain in DC-3s in
Africa when it was 23 to build flight time. It was one of the first Police Aerial
Patrol pilots for the LA Sheriffs. It is currently writing an action adventure
book on airlines and terrorism ( Chapter 14 so far) and it's taking it's
open water SCUBA Certification test today to go dive in Eluthera.
It adores the opposite gender and they generally find it quite attractive
as well. It flies because (as Brian reminds us) "It releases my mind from the
tyranny of petty things." It has never had a problem operating well with and enjoying
the members of it's flight crew.
(This one's for Walt) It flew North American AT-6's upon occasion out of Van
Nuys when it was getting it's private pilot license age 17 years old. Like
so many of us when we were kids, washed them for occasional flight time.
(I know this is long guys, but I'm having way too much fun here.)
It's 6 ft tall and blond. It was in the first class of Federal Flight Deck
Officers after 911. It loves instinctive archery and shooting it's LEM H/K 40cal.
for practice upon occasion. It has also just finished painting an 8'X20'
mural of the Salt Lake Valley and Delta aircraft for the Chief Pilots Office.
It wants to purchase one of those wonderful "Boy's Toys" and join in the fun
with the YAK guys. It is most appreciative of their varied and colorful input.
"Whaddizzitt?!!"
Tank, that was truly an appropriate and well written ode to the CJ. I did buy
American with the V-Rod at least, although I'm not generally a Harley fan.
A friend of mine who is a FAM gave me a bit of a hard time about "what are you
doing buying a CHINESE or RUSSIAN military airplane you unpatriotic thing?"
I just told him that I was taking a machine of war out of their hands and providing
a last line of defense for the USA.(laugh).
Thanks also to the very entertaining Cliff, EAL and his wonderful arch nemesis,
"Pappy".
My appreciation to Tim as well. That is, after all, the bottom line. "Whatever
suits my mission".
I do feel warmly welcomed by all of you and continue to enjoy your comments
on the YAK list. Indeed I AM still lurking about out here and probably will
be for some time.
The final question. Will I succumb to "That Fatal Feminine Flaw of emotion
based decision making" or will I do the sweaty double balled testosterone based
thing and succumb to a male on male challenge? The mystery remains. Stay
tuned for the next episode of "ALL MY YAKS".
I love it.
You guys fly safe out there and keep the comments coming.
Fraternally, - "Val"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Ditto! Unless it was one of those Bug-eyed Navy things.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/30/2005 12:59:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Valkyre1 wrote:
>
> > You all know how it is when people ask you what your favorite
> > airplane was out of all that you have flown. Difficult question.
>
> No, that one is easy. It is the last airplane I flew. I fall in love with
each
> and every one all over again when I push the go-handle forward.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | website for the Naval Museum at Pensacola |
Ok, Ok, I know I give the Navy a hard time but they have a really cool website for the museum. Check it out at www.naval-air.org. Even if they do fly some of the uglest birds in the inventory! Well anyway, a bad day with Air Under Your Ass is better than the best day in the office (on the groun that is)!
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 14
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On Oct 30, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any
> illusions about
> ever having the opportunity to fly one.
Well, you'll have a chance to come as close as most mere mortals at All
Red Star V, this coming May 20th.
Brian Shul, author of "Sled Driver" (www.sleddriver.com) has agreed to
be our keynote speaker this year. Brian has been seen on many SR-71
specials (History Channel, etc.) and has an incredible book filled with
his photos of the Blackbird from his stint as an SR-71 pilot. Brian
has the rare ability to combine humor, engaging insight, and great
story telling into his talk, along with some of the rarest SR-71 photos
in the world. We're very excited and honored to have him coming to ARS
V. Geez, our fifth year already...where does time go?
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: "Whaddizzitt?" |
Pappy,
With all your skills and experience, how is it that you seem to have so
much difficulty in recognizing that Valkyre is a Scandinavian WOMAN?
Look at the handle Pal , "VALKYRE", You know, like Eric the Red, like
Lief Erickson. Cripes a mighty Pal, are you living under a rock or just
entering senility? A sense of history would tell you that "VAL" was the
subject of some publicity back when you were a pup, guess you just missed
it . Come on Pappy, you're just making it too easy for me and as you
have stated, I'm "older than dirt" , but I guess that's better than
dumber than a box of rocks. Nevertheless, I still love you Pappy, but
I'm beginning to feel sorry for you.
Warm Regards,
CLIFF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:08:14 EST cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 10/29/2005 9:40:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Valkyre1@comcast.net writes:
God! If you're a woman I divorce my wife of 40 years and marry you! If
not - - - well welcome to the club fella.
Pappy
Hey again Guys,
Yep, I'm still "lurking" around out here as Doc so succinctly put it.
I'm also getting a lot of chuckles as well as info on the YAK and CJ6 re:
my intent to purchase. Evidently I started some friendly fire amongst you
which you are enjoying as much as I am.
I've received information on a beautiful and fully loaded almost new
YAK for sale by two of my airline brethren. They love it, but both
airlines are in or near bankruptcy and taking their ton of flesh out of
the pilots.
Next Tues I will be going to Portland to fly and inspect the
particular CJ6 that I am considering. (I'm excited for sure.) It's older
than the YAK, we will see what comes of it. That's your first mystery.
The second mystery for some of you is in the form of a riddle. (
Cliff, "older than dirt" might enjoy this more than most).
Here goes... "It rides a Harley V-Rod. It has been in martial arts
for 19 years and teaches "cockpit combat" to flight crews. It flew
Captain in DC-3s in Africa when it was 23 to build flight time. It was
one of the first Police Aerial Patrol pilots for the LA Sheriffs. It is
currently writing an action adventure book on airlines and terrorism (
Chapter 14 so far) and it's taking it's open water SCUBA Certification
test today to go dive in Eluthera.
It adores the opposite gender and they generally find it quite
attractive as well. It flies because (as Brian reminds us) "It releases
my mind from the tyranny of petty things." It has never had a problem
operating well with and enjoying the members of it's flight crew.
(This one's for Walt) It flew North American AT-6's upon occasion
out of Van Nuys when it was getting it's private pilot license age 17
years old. Like so many of us when we were kids, washed them for
occasional flight time.
(I know this is long guys, but I'm having way too much fun here.)
It's 6 ft tall and blond. It was in the first class of Federal
Flight Deck Officers after 911. It loves instinctive archery and shooting
it's LEM H/K 40cal. for practice upon occasion. It has also just finished
painting an 8'X20' mural of the Salt Lake Valley and Delta aircraft for
the Chief Pilots Office.
It wants to purchase one of those wonderful "Boy's Toys" and join in
the fun with the YAK guys. It is most appreciative of their varied and
colorful input.
"Whaddizzitt?!!"
Tank, that was truly an appropriate and well written ode to the CJ. I
did buy American with the V-Rod at least, although I'm not generally a
Harley fan. A friend of mine who is a FAM gave me a bit of a hard time
about "what are you doing buying a CHINESE or RUSSIAN military airplane
you unpatriotic thing?" I just told him that I was taking a machine of
war out of their hands and providing a last line of defense for the
USA.(laugh).
Thanks also to the very entertaining Cliff, EAL and his wonderful
arch nemesis, "Pappy".
My appreciation to Tim as well. That is, after all, the bottom
line. "Whatever suits my mission".
I do feel warmly welcomed by all of you and continue to enjoy your
comments on the YAK list. Indeed I AM still lurking about out here and
probably will be for some time.
The final question. Will I succumb to "That Fatal Feminine Flaw of
emotion based decision making" or will I do the sweaty double balled
testosterone based thing and succumb to a male on male challenge? The
mystery remains. Stay tuned for the next episode of "ALL MY YAKS".
I love it.
You guys fly safe out there and keep the comments coming.
Fraternally, - "Val"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Yaks from Lithuania |
Egon,
I have a deal going with him right now, please contact me off list.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of egon
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:52 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Yaks from Lithuania
has anyone delt with a chap in Vilnius in Lithuania by the name of
Litauras Dziuzas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve |
David,
The CJ6 book has a great exploded view of both the QS1 (pressure reducing
valve) and the QS2 Differential brake valve. I am told by TJ that the parts
to overhaul the one from the Yak are the same as used in the CJ. If I can
be of help with either or both items please do not hesitate to give me a
shout.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Marsh
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:58 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
Dennis,
yes, I've already stripped the brake differential unit but I'm still
having a problem that releasing the brake handle is not releasing all of the
brake pressure. I can hear the reducing valve continue hissing for several
seconds but there is still a residual braking action. If I then waggle the
rudder pedals, the differential unit will release the residual pressure.
That's why I want a better understand of the reducing valve. It looks like
a pig to reach; I want to know if it can be responsible for this behaviour.
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
It's not in a very accessible location. The brake reducing valve is
under the floor on the right side in the rear cockpit directly in front of
the bulkhead where the flap actuator is located. Usually it's painted
green.
If your brake reducing valve is going bad, it will affect both the front
and rear brake handle.
An easy way to learn how the brake pressure is released is to squeeze
and lock the brake handle, then move the rudder pedals left and right.
It's best to have the front seat out. Then listen as you move the rudder
pedals or release the brake handle.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: David Marsh
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:01 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
So,
I'm looking through my Termikas parts manual for the a drawing of said
reducing valve and.... huh? My copy goes straight from Fig 7.6.5 to Fig 7.7.
You've guessed it; I need Fig 7.6.6. Grrrr. Anybody got the scoop on how
this thing is mounted in a Yak? More to the point, how is the air released
when you let go of the brake handle?
Dave.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: "Whaddizzitt?" |
In a message dated 10/31/2005 11:16:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
netmaster15@juno.com writes:
Well "Val" was a Japanese dive bomber too. She could have been Oriental or
something. You know, long black silky hair, smoky dark eyes, - the promise
of the mysterious. But she said she was a "6' foot blond" and since we had
Scandinavian exchange student live with us for a year and he was 6' foot blond
MALE, I figured she might be an 'ice princess' but I didn't know for sure.
Anyway I nearly tore the wings off my Pitts years ago while humming (no I-Pods
back than) the "Flight of the Valkyrie". I've kind-a stayed away from it
since than.
I have been accused of occupying space under a rock, "naivete" was the word
they used. That's OK - "Ignorance is bliss". :]
Pappy
Pappy,
With all your skills and experience, how is it that you seem to have so much
difficulty in recognizing that Valkyre is a Scandinavian WOMAN? Look at
the handle Pal , "VALKYRE", You know, like Eric the Red, like Lief Erickson.
Cripes a mighty Pal, are you living under a rock or just entering senility? A
sense of history would tell you that "VAL" was the subject of some publicity
back when you were a pup, guess you just missed it . Come on Pappy, you're
just making it too easy for me and as you have stated, I'm "older than dirt"
still love you Pappy, but I'm beginning to feel sorry for you.
Warm Regards,
CLIFF
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:08:14 EST _cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) writes:
In a message dated 10/29/2005 9:40:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Valkyre1@comcast.net writes:
God! If you're a woman I divorce my wife of 40 years and marry you! If not
- - - well welcome to the club fella.
Pappy
Hey again Guys,
Yep, I'm still "lurking" around out here as Doc so succinctly put it.
I'm also getting a lot of chuckles as well as info on the YAK and CJ6 re: my
intent to purchase. Evidently I started some friendly fire amongst you which
you are enjoying as much as I am.
I've received information on a beautiful and fully loaded almost new
YAK for sale by two of my airline brethren. They love it, but both airlines are
in or near bankruptcy and taking their ton of flesh out of the pilots.
Next Tues I will be going to Portland to fly and inspect the particular
CJ6 that I am considering. (I'm excited for sure.) It's older than the YAK,
we will see what comes of it. That's your first mystery.
The second mystery for some of you is in the form of a riddle. ( Cliff,
"older than dirt" might enjoy this more than most).
Here goes... "It rides a Harley V-Rod. It has been in martial arts for
19 years and teaches "cockpit combat" to flight crews. It flew Captain in
DC-3s in Africa when it was 23 to build flight time. It was one of the first
Police Aerial Patrol pilots for the LA Sheriffs. It is currently writing an
action adventure book on airlines and terrorism ( Chapter 14 so far) and it's
taking it's open water SCUBA Certification test today to go dive in Eluthera.
It adores the opposite gender and they generally find it quite
attractive as well. It flies because (as Brian reminds us) "It releases my mind
from
the tyranny of petty things." It has never had a problem operating well with
and enjoying the members of it's flight crew.
(This one's for Walt) It flew North American AT-6's upon occasion out
of Van Nuys when it was getting it's private pilot license age 17 years old.
Like so many of us when we were kids, washed them for occasional flight time.
(I know this is long guys, but I'm having way too much fun here.)
It's 6 ft tall and blond. It was in the first class of Federal Flight
Deck Officers after 911. It loves instinctive archery and shooting it's LEM
H/K 40cal. for practice upon occasion. It has also just finished painting an
8'X20' mural of the Salt Lake Valley and Delta aircraft for the Chief Pilots
Office.
It wants to purchase one of those wonderful "Boy's Toys" and join in
the fun with the YAK guys. It is most appreciative of their varied and colorful
input.
"Whaddizzitt?!!"
Tank, that was truly an appropriate and well written ode to the CJ. I
did buy American with the V-Rod at least, although I'm not generally a Harley
fan. A friend of mine who is a FAM gave me a bit of a hard time about "what
are you doing buying a CHINESE or RUSSIAN military airplane you unpatriotic
thing?" I just told him that I was taking a machine of war out of their hands
and providing a last line of defense for the USA.(laugh).
Thanks also to the very entertaining Cliff, EAL and his wonderful arch
nemesis, "Pappy".
My appreciation to Tim as well. That is, after all, the bottom line.
"Whatever suits my mission".
I do feel warmly welcomed by all of you and continue to enjoy your
comments on the YAK list. Indeed I AM still lurking about out here and probably
will be for some time.
The final question. Will I succumb to "That Fatal Feminine Flaw of
emotion based decision making" or will I do the sweaty double balled
testosterone based thing and succumb to a male on male challenge? The mystery
remains.
Stay tuned for the next episode of "ALL MY YAKS".
I love it.
You guys fly safe out there and keep the comments coming.
Fraternally, - "Val"
Message 19
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In a message dated 10/31/2005 8:09:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
barry@flyredstar.org writes:
All
Red Star V, this coming May 20th.
OK, Barry May 20, 2006 is a Saturday. Therefore, I assume the inclusive dates
would 5/18- 5/21. Correct? ...Blitz
Message 20
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| Subject: | "Let's buy em ALL!" |
Val,
One thing I am curious about is why no one has mentioned anything about your
height. Of course different people get their height from either long torso
or leg length, and I have no idea which group you fit into. Each one has
issues in some of the aircraft under discussion. I am 6 foot 6 1/2 inches
tall, with a long torso, and I have really serious issues to the point that
I can not even fly a CJ-6, ..... and in a YAK-52, I must replace the
throttle "handle" and modify the seat pan to fly it at all. Amazingly
enough, I fit into a YAK-50, although I did modify it to be more
comfortable in the long run.
I'm interested in what the break point is. I KNOW there have to be other
tall guys out there that fit in "somehow", but I think you said you were 6
feet tall yourself, so it will be interesting to see what you think about
the CJ once you fly it. Will your head smack into the canopy, etc., etc.
Will you be able to fit in there with a chute?
How many YAK and CJ owners are there out there that are 6 feet and over?
Just wondering.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1@comcast.net]
Subject: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
Dear Guys,
An update on the CJ6 etc. As per some very excellent advice given by
your members, I'll probably visit another YAK/CJ parts and Maintainence
facility in Calif. and do more research as well. I'm still going to fly the
CJ6 in PDX this week.
Long ago I came to the realization that I both complain and debate
"recreationally".( I do it because it's FUN.) If I had the wherewithal, I'd
buy one of each of these wonderful aircraft for every day of the week. I
love the differences. That's what makes it interesting.
Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot from you Yakkety Yakkers and
it's obvious that you all want me to have what you love most so that I can
enjoy it as well.
I am still leaning strongly toward the Nanchang and I suspect that is
what I'll go with (sorry Cliff). It suits my particular profile for
happiness, and I've never competed with anyone but myself.
My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any illusions
about ever having the opportunity to fly one. Even if I did get the
opportunity and price were no object, I have no doubts that I'd want to make
my final daily flying fun something more along the lines of the CJ/YAK that
you're all doing.
You all know how it is when people ask you what your favorite airplane
was out of all that you have flown. Difficult question.
I'll keep you informed on the progress toward joining the Yakkety Yak
ranks, and look forward to seeing what new wisdom comes up on this website
daily.
Fraternally, - Val (P.S. IT is a girl, enough of my torturing you guys.
LOL)
Message 21
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| Subject: | front cockpit brake handle |
Sigh.... ok, ok, I get the message. I have to admit I knew it ahead of
time.
But even though I have been slapped upside the head and run over by a TRUCK
for heavens sake, I just have to tell you that it sure is nice not having to
run recapped tires, or argue about Desser rubber, (I use GOODYEAR rubber by
the way) or not having brakes when you run your air too low, or having to
replace those lines when the aluminum fails, and being able to walk in and
buy a few parts from Cessna to rebuild your whole brake system.
Sigh.....
Mark B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: front cockpit brake handle
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Maybe run over by a semi.
Ernie
On 10/29/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> No....probably smacked upside the head a few times! -)
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 6:05 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: front cockpit brake handle
>
>
> I take it that if I said... convert to hydraulic brakes..... I'd get
yelled
> at?
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Sapp [mailto:rvfltd@televar.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:00 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: front cockpit brake handle
>
>
> Just a quick note that IMHO cables normally don't stretch much. Any
> "growth" in length should be looked at with great suspicion. Are the
> strands of the cable parting somewhere in the length of the cable? Or are
> the balls on the ends coming loose? I have seen several cables part
company
> shortly after being "snugged up". Many weekend mechanics out in the
> hinterland have taken a torch to the ends of the cable to heat them in an
> effort to solder a new ball on the cable. This removes the temper from
the
> cable and will in time cause the cable to fail at that point. Proceed
> carefully folks, there is NOTHING more apt to make you soil yourself than
> the sudden realization that you have a pedestrian (or the side of your own
> hanger) bore sighted and have absolutely no chance of stopping in time.
>
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Steve Wieland
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:21 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: front cocpit brake handle
>
>
> I've got a'96 Yak-52. The f/c/p brake is not as effective as the rear. I
> suspect the cable needs to be tightened. Any help on how to do it & what
pit
> falls might occur[ I.e. too tight = dragging brake etc]
> Wheels N42SW
Message 22
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| Subject: | For KP ref Whaddizzitt |
Mark. The yak list server is bouncing my posts. As I'm now away for 3 days why
not cut and post this for me.
*************************************************************************************************************************
Subject: Whaddizzitt
Great fun but to be just a little pedantic it's correctly spelt Valkyrie and to
be more specific it's of Viking or Norse origin.
The Valkyries are mythical & beautiful maidens who serve the great hall of Odin
by riding over the battlefields to collect the dead
and carry them to Valhalla where warriors who die as heroes in battle dwell eternally.......the
Greeks have Elysium or Elysian fields for the same
function.
But hell don't let such trivia spoil a great thread !
Keep it coming
kp
Best regards, Mark
www.yakuk.com
+44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
Message 23
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| Subject: | Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
Dennis,
Topical ... my syndicate -52 is due for its annual next week and all our
uplocks are scheduled for inspection (as mandated by the UK CAA every 3
years) ... will be interested to see what condition they are in.
You referred to gunk found in actuators ... this has been a real pain in the
wallet for us over the last couple of couple of years where we've had all
the gear / flap actuators overhauled due to the build of hardened gunk
that's distorted seals and been the cause of localised corrosion too ...
even though we methodically vent the snot valve after each flight.
Just recently we diagnosed six(!) minor air leaks (barely perceptible) in
the nose gear pipework caused by gunk build up hardening in these low lying
pipes, trapping moisture and causing pin hole corrosion from the inside.
These were all difficult to locate and time consuming to repair ...
bizarrely some of these microscopic leaks would be intermittent and after a
few minutes the "hole" either blocked with gunk or air pressure in the pipes
sufficiently flexed them such that they sealed again ... very unusual.
At the annual we're going to strip out a horizontal run of air pipe from the
main gear to see if this has been affected too ... hopefully this will be in
better shape than the "U" bend formed by the nose gear run that's a gunk
trap.
We're also looking to get an approved mod to add a quarter turn plug valve
onto the snot valve, so its clearly either in an "open" or "closed" state
... this will get rid of the return spring that's been fitted that prevents
us leaving the valve fully open between flights. As it's surprising how much
snot gradually emerges for some time after the initial blast ... so the more
we get out the less there is to accumulate in the system going forward.
Really surprised by how hard this gunk residue gets ... in your experience
have you found an effective solvent to remove it or a means of flushing it
out of air system pipes?
Thanks, Rob
----
Subject: Re: Re: EP of the Day
From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese@elmore.rr.com)
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Rob,
You've touched on most all areas that could have an effect on the situation.
But the one that is right on target is -
"Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed in
open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
needed)."
There were actually two separate issues here. First situation was the
internal seal in the starboard uplock actuator was leaking, causing the air
pressure to leak down. It could be heard after engine shutdown. Rebuilding
the actuator solved that problem. But the second situation is the real
lesson here.
...
What was found was gunk in the uplock actuator which prevented the internal
spring in the uplock actuator from pushing the pin back into the actuator
when pressure was released (selecting DOWN on the gear handle) thus
releasing the mechanical parrot hook latch. So the parrot hook always was
effectively open and just flipping back and forth because of the spring that
holds it in the open position.
...
This was an interesting scenario. BTW, it's a good idea to pull at least
one uplock actuator during an annual to see if there is a lot of moisture
and corrosion inside. If one is gunked up or corroded or both, pull all
three (or two as with TW's).
Dennis
Message 24
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| Subject: | Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
Performances Limited To Single Direction?
Proposed revisions to air show regulations could not only make the shows
a lot less interesting, they could make the photos in magazines and
newspapers a lot more pedestrian. EAA has responded to FAA Draft Order
8700.1, Chapter 49, with a shopping list of requests to eliminate rule
changes that don't seem to help achieve the stated goal of improving safety.
"For example, a proposed rule mandates that flight directions during air
shows 'shall be in one direction only,'" an EAA news release quotes the
revisions as stating. EAA spokesman Earl Lawrence says the rules could take
substantial sizzle out of air show routines, especially warbird flybys.
"What might seem to be minor changes could have substantial negative
operational and financial implications on air show operations without a
corresponding increase in safety," he said. Another rule would require
credentialed photographers to shoot from behind the fence, just like the
paying customers, which Lawrence says fixes a non-existent problem. Lawrence
said allowing the shooters better access in a controlled fashion has never
resulted in an injury or fatality at EAA AirVenture. Another rule would
require air show organizers to apply for a TFR if any non-military skydivers
are performing, which Lawrence says is unnecessary since EAA's show takes
place in waivered airspace. "There is no additional safety to requiring the
establishment of a TFR," Lawrence said. EAA agrees with some of the new
rules, including those requiring joint FAA/air boss safety briefings that
address "proven safety issues."
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 25
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| Subject: | For your amusement ... are these your SOPs? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
The linked file is 8.5Mb ... and in German ... but well worth it!
http://www.hackermovies.de/moviefiles/HM_RacingBeats.wmv
Btw ... the guy who made this is called Steffen Hacker ... so don't be put
off by the URL!
Enjoy, Rob
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Rob Rowe wrote:
> Really surprised by how hard this gunk residue gets ... in your experience
> have you found an effective solvent to remove it or a means of flushing it
> out of air system pipes?
What about regular applications of air-tool oil? MMO makes air-tool oil.
Perhaps a shot of that in through the recharge port every 50 hours or so and
then cycle everything well would be a plus.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 27
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| Subject: | Yak 52 census online ! |
Thanks to Alex Smith and Menno Kortekaas, the Yak census is online. Mostly
all known Yak 52's, their history, current owner and available images are to
be found here...
www.yakkes.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
Nope, but somehow doesn't surprise me. I'm up to "adventure" number 3 this year
with our Public Servants: the FAA. Now, even though my CJ was re-cert'd in the
Lakeland area 2 years ago, by Orlando FSDO, my latest Program Letter update
for the Selma gig came back with a letter stating that I should forward it to
the Tampa FSDO since Orlando FSDO "has nothing on file for the aircraft". My repeated
efforts to contact Orlando go unanswered.
Bad JuJu? Halloween? Mars in Conjunction? Perhaps it's the staff the FAA is hiring
nowdays??
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | "Let's buy em ALL!" |
I am 6'6" tall and absolutely do not fit in the 55M, we are almost done with the
seat tub and rear frame modification, what a pleasure to be able to seat, major
mod, lots of rivets to remove, big russian rivets, the seat tub was not meant
to be removed (lots of goodies behind it tho...) we made it removable, the
hooker harness was attached to the tub and not to the structure (we are correcting
that). an aussie good guy sent me pictures of the new 55 with the changes
and we adapted some. lots of work behind the back support to get the joggles
to reinforce the bulkhead, major changes but worth it, now I can sit in the
airplane and (imagine...) flying without back pain.
andres
LOL)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Rob,
Once again, Marvel Mystery Oil in the main air tank has significantly helped
reduce the gunk and corrosion. I put about 20 cc's in the main air tank
during annual inspection. Air tool oil also works in the main air tank.
One other thing I do is put MMO or air tool oil on the compressor filter
when putting in a new compressor filter. This helps lubricate the top end
of the compressor and the output check valve, thus reducing the carbon build
up typically seen on the output check valve. I have heard of some people
putting glycerin and denatured alcohol in the tank as well. But I have not
tried that.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
>
> Dennis,
>
> Topical ... my syndicate -52 is due for its annual next week and all our
> uplocks are scheduled for inspection (as mandated by the UK CAA every 3
> years) ... will be interested to see what condition they are in.
>
> You referred to gunk found in actuators ... this has been a real pain in
> the
> wallet for us over the last couple of couple of years where we've had all
> the gear / flap actuators overhauled due to the build of hardened gunk
> that's distorted seals and been the cause of localised corrosion too ...
> even though we methodically vent the snot valve after each flight.
>
> Just recently we diagnosed six(!) minor air leaks (barely perceptible) in
> the nose gear pipework caused by gunk build up hardening in these low
> lying
> pipes, trapping moisture and causing pin hole corrosion from the inside.
> These were all difficult to locate and time consuming to repair ...
> bizarrely some of these microscopic leaks would be intermittent and after
> a
> few minutes the "hole" either blocked with gunk or air pressure in the
> pipes
> sufficiently flexed them such that they sealed again ... very unusual.
>
> At the annual we're going to strip out a horizontal run of air pipe from
> the
> main gear to see if this has been affected too ... hopefully this will be
> in
> better shape than the "U" bend formed by the nose gear run that's a gunk
> trap.
>
> We're also looking to get an approved mod to add a quarter turn plug valve
> onto the snot valve, so its clearly either in an "open" or "closed" state
> ... this will get rid of the return spring that's been fitted that
> prevents
> us leaving the valve fully open between flights. As it's surprising how
> much
> snot gradually emerges for some time after the initial blast ... so the
> more
> we get out the less there is to accumulate in the system going forward.
>
> Really surprised by how hard this gunk residue gets ... in your experience
> have you found an effective solvent to remove it or a means of flushing it
> out of air system pipes?
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
>
> ----
>
> Subject: Re: Re: EP of the Day
> From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese@elmore.rr.com)
> Date: Mon Oct 31 - 7:05 AM
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Rob,
> You've touched on most all areas that could have an effect on the
> situation.
> But the one that is right on target is -
> "Uplock - probably ruled out (unless release mechanism has become jammed
> in
> open position too) as mechanical latching operation on retraction (no air
> needed)."
>
> There were actually two separate issues here. First situation was the
> internal seal in the starboard uplock actuator was leaking, causing the
> air
> pressure to leak down. It could be heard after engine shutdown.
> Rebuilding
> the actuator solved that problem. But the second situation is the real
> lesson here.
>
> ...
>
> What was found was gunk in the uplock actuator which prevented the
> internal
> spring in the uplock actuator from pushing the pin back into the actuator
> when pressure was released (selecting DOWN on the gear handle) thus
> releasing the mechanical parrot hook latch. So the parrot hook always
> was
> effectively open and just flipping back and forth because of the spring
> that
> holds it in the open position.
>
> ...
>
> This was an interesting scenario. BTW, it's a good idea to pull at least
> one uplock actuator during an annual to see if there is a lot of moisture
> and corrosion inside. If one is gunked up or corroded or both, pull all
> three (or two as with TW's).
> Dennis
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
That's precisely what I do Brian. I haven't found the difference between
MMO air tool oil and regular MMO. I squirt some in the hose, then attach
the hose to the external air fill port and fire away. Seems to keep
everything pretty darn clean. Heck, MMO might even be a good laxative! -)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Rob Rowe wrote:
>
>> Really surprised by how hard this gunk residue gets ... in your
>> experience
>> have you found an effective solvent to remove it or a means of flushing
>> it
>> out of air system pipes?
>
> What about regular applications of air-tool oil? MMO makes air-tool oil.
> Perhaps a shot of that in through the recharge port every 50 hours or so
> and then cycle everything well would be a plus.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
Craig,
If I'm not mistaken, the Orlando and Tampa FSDO's report to the Atlanta MIDO.
You should be able to go on-line and get a supervisors name at the MIDO and explain
how "kind, gentle and helpful" your Orlando FSDO is. Maybe that's not a
good idea though since it may ruffle a few feathers in the Orlando FSDO's office
and thus they may try to make your life miserable or at least difficult.
You're call of course.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: yak-list
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today
Nope, but somehow doesn't surprise me. I'm up to "adventure" number 3 this year
with our Public Servants: the FAA. Now, even though my CJ was re-cert'd in
the Lakeland area 2 years ago, by Orlando FSDO, my latest Program Letter update
for the Selma gig came back with a letter stating that I should forward it to
the Tampa FSDO since Orlando FSDO "has nothing on file for the aircraft". My
repeated efforts to contact Orlando go unanswered.
Bad JuJu? Halloween? Mars in Conjunction? Perhaps it's the staff the FAA is hiring
nowdays??
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> That's precisely what I do Brian. I haven't found the difference
> between MMO air tool oil and regular MMO.
I couldn't tell the difference either but they sell them in different
bottles/cans so I didn't try to second guess.
> I squirt some in the hose,
> then attach the hose to the external air fill port and fire away. Seems
> to keep everything pretty darn clean.
Makes sense. How about getting past the filter/dessicant-trap?
Do you end up with MMO stains on your flight suit from the stuff blowing out
the gear and flap ambient ports?
> Heck, MMO might even be a good
> laxative! -)
Well, I was thinking that the stains would be on my the thigh of the left leg
but whatever floats yer boat.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Maybe that's not a good idea though since it may ruffle a few
> feathers in the Orlando FSDO's office and thus they may try to make your
> life miserable or at least difficult. You're call of course.
You know, this sure sounds backwards to me, i.e. us leaning over backwards not
to ruffle the feathers of the government bureaucrats. Didn't I remember
something about government being the servant of the people and not the other
way around?
Never mind. Surely I am confused.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" |
Actually with a seat mod you would fit just fine.
-rs-
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr Andre Katz
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
I am 6'6" tall and absolutely do not fit in the 55M, we are almost done with
the seat tub and rear frame modification, what a pleasure to be able to seat,
major mod, lots of rivets to remove, big russian rivets, the seat tub was not
meant to be removed (lots of goodies behind it tho...) we made it removable,
the hooker harness was attached to the tub and not to the structure (we are correcting
that). an aussie good guy sent me pictures of the new 55 with the changes
and we adapted some. lots of work behind the back support to get the joggles
to reinforce the bulkhead, major changes but worth it, now I can sit in the
airplane and (imagine...) flying without back pain.
andres
LOL)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
No problem getting past/thru the one and only air filter on a Yak 52. No
desiccant-trap on a 52 either. I've never gotten any red stains on my zoom
bag from either the gear or flap handles. If there is a concern about that,
then certainly one should use either 3 in 1 oil or air tool oil, both of
which are almost clear.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> That's precisely what I do Brian. I haven't found the difference between
>> MMO air tool oil and regular MMO.
>
> I couldn't tell the difference either but they sell them in different
> bottles/cans so I didn't try to second guess.
>
>> I squirt some in the hose, then attach the hose to the external air fill
>> port and fire away. Seems to keep everything pretty darn clean.
>
> Makes sense. How about getting past the filter/dessicant-trap?
>
> Do you end up with MMO stains on your flight suit from the stuff blowing
> out the gear and flap ambient ports?
>
>> Heck, MMO might even be a good laxative! -)
>
> Well, I was thinking that the stains would be on my the thigh of the left
> leg but whatever floats yer boat.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
You're 110% correct Brian. But I always try to consider the fact that THEY
have the power because THEY make the rules which we must follow. And THEY
always seem to change the rules because it is THEIR game we're playing, not
ours unfortunately.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> Maybe that's not a good idea though since it may ruffle a few feathers in
>> the Orlando FSDO's office and thus they may try to make your life
>> miserable or at least difficult. You're call of course.
>
> You know, this sure sounds backwards to me, i.e. us leaning over backwards
> not to ruffle the feathers of the government bureaucrats. Didn't I
> remember something about government being the servant of the people and
> not the other way around?
>
> Never mind. Surely I am confused.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > Heck, MMO might even be a good
> > laxative! -)
Nah, kinda smooth going down but pretty rough coming out! Sorta explosive!
Just ask my neighbor's cat that left claw marks on my the hood of my sports
car!
Come to think of it, I have not seen that cat lately after it lauched in a
purple haze from my garage!
But I did hear about my neighbor complaining about purple stains in his lap
after petting that cat!
Doc
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today |
Sounds like a severe case of cludo fisdo!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Everyone seen this? From AV Web today
Nope, but somehow doesn't surprise me. I'm up to "adventure" number 3 this year
with our Public Servants: the FAA. Now, even though my CJ was re-cert'd in the
Lakeland area 2 years ago, by Orlando FSDO, my latest Program Letter update
for the Selma gig came back with a letter stating that I should forward it to
the Tampa FSDO since Orlando FSDO "has nothing on file for the aircraft". My repeated
efforts to contact Orlando go unanswered.
Bad JuJu? Halloween? Mars in Conjunction? Perhaps it's the staff the FAA is hiring
nowdays??
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 40
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| Subject: | More FSDO Funnies |
Dennis wrote:
>
> You should be able to go on-line and get a supervisors name at the MIDO and explain
> how "kind, gentle and helpful" your Orlando FSDO is. Maybe that's not a
> good idea though since it may ruffle a few feathers in the Orlando FSDO's office
> and thus they may try to make your life miserable or at least difficult.
>
Jeez, and I just got through going through the Washington FAA aero med office to
light a fire under Southern Regional, to get my AME off her fat tush.... Regional
Director issued me my 2nd class with a warning that I had to let them know
if my condition changed...such as getting old and dying.
I think it's all because I beat a TFR rap, mostly because of "lost" tapes and documents.
Somewhere in the FAA computer my name lights up.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 41
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| Subject: | "Let's buy em ALL!" |
I R 6'2",220lb. My legs fit in the 52 ok. Would be nice to have an extra in 2 inches
though.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
Val,
One thing I am curious about is why no one has mentioned anything about your height.
Of course different people get their height from either long torso or leg
length, and I have no idea which group you fit into. Each one has issues in
some of the aircraft under discussion. I am 6 foot 6 1/2 inches tall, with
a long torso, and I have really serious issues to the point that I can not even
fly a CJ-6, ..... and in a YAK-52, I must replace the throttle "handle" and
modify the seat pan to fly it at all. Amazingly enough, I fit into a YAK-50,
although I did modify it to be more comfortable in the long run.
I'm interested in what the break point is. I KNOW there have to be other tall
guys out there that fit in "somehow", but I think you said you were 6 feet tall
yourself, so it will be interesting to see what you think about the CJ once
you fly it. Will your head smack into the canopy, etc., etc. Will you be able
to fit in there with a chute?
How many YAK and CJ owners are there out there that are 6 feet and over? Just
wondering.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1@comcast.net]
Subject: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
Dear Guys,
An update on the CJ6 etc. As per some very excellent advice given by your
members, I'll probably visit another YAK/CJ parts and Maintainence facility
in Calif. and do more research as well. I'm still going to fly the CJ6 in PDX
this week.
Long ago I came to the realization that I both complain and debate "recreationally".(
I do it because it's FUN.) If I had the wherewithal, I'd buy one of
each of these wonderful aircraft for every day of the week. I love the differences.
That's what makes it interesting.
Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot from you Yakkety Yakkers and it's obvious
that you all want me to have what you love most so that I can enjoy it
as well.
I am still leaning strongly toward the Nanchang and I suspect that is what
I'll go with (sorry Cliff). It suits my particular profile for happiness, and
I've never competed with anyone but myself.
My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any illusions about
ever having the opportunity to fly one. Even if I did get the opportunity
and price were no object, I have no doubts that I'd want to make my final daily
flying fun something more along the lines of the CJ/YAK that you're all doing.
You all know how it is when people ask you what your favorite airplane was
out of all that you have flown. Difficult question.
I'll keep you informed on the progress toward joining the Yakkety Yak ranks,
and look forward to seeing what new wisdom comes up on this website daily.
Fraternally, - Val (P.S. IT is a girl, enough of my torturing you guys. LOL)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
So I'm 6' 2" and taller in the body than most folks. I've owned a 52
and now on a CJ. The 52 has a smaller cockpit than the CJ. I fly both
with a seat-pack chute with NO (zero, nada, zip, none) padding and that
is the only way I fit in the seat. I'm looking at the canopy mod for
the CJ ("malcom hood") but haven't done it yet.
If you want to talk about the pro/con of both, give me a message off the
list.
Dabear
Both the 52 and CJ are great airplanes, period. Get over it.
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> Val,
>
> One thing I am curious about is why no one has mentioned anything
> about your height. Of course different people get their height from
> either long torso or leg length, and I have no idea which group you
> fit into. Each one has issues in some of the aircraft under
> discussion. I am 6 foot 6 1/2 inches tall, with a long torso, and I
> have really serious issues to the point that I can not even fly a
> CJ-6, ..... and in a YAK-52, I must replace the throttle "handle" and
> modify the seat pan to fly it at all. Amazingly enough, I fit into a
> YAK-50, although I did modify it to be more comfortable in the long run.
>
> I'm interested in what the break point is. I KNOW there have to be
> other tall guys out there that fit in "somehow", but I think you said
> you were 6 feet tall yourself, so it will be interesting to see what
> you think about the CJ once you fly it. Will your head smack into the
> canopy, etc., etc. Will you be able to fit in there with a chute?
>
> How many YAK and CJ owners are there out there that are 6 feet and
> over? Just wondering.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1@comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:44 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
>
> Dear Guys,
>
> An update on the CJ6 etc. As per some very excellent advice
> given by your members, I'll probably visit another YAK/CJ parts
> and Maintainence facility in Calif. and do more research as well.
> I'm still going to fly the CJ6 in PDX this week.
> Long ago I came to the realization that I both complain and
> debate "recreationally".( I do it because it's FUN.) If I had the
> wherewithal, I'd buy one of each of these wonderful aircraft for
> every day of the week. I love the differences. That's what makes
> it interesting.
> Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot from you Yakkety
> Yakkers and it's obvious that you all want me to have what you
> love most so that I can enjoy it as well.
> I am still leaning strongly toward the Nanchang and I
> suspect that is what I'll go with (sorry Cliff). It suits my
> particular profile for happiness, and I've never competed with
> anyone but myself.
> My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any
> illusions about ever having the opportunity to fly one. Even if I
> did get the opportunity and price were no object, I have no doubts
> that I'd want to make my final daily flying fun something more
> along the lines of the CJ/YAK that you're all doing.
> You all know how it is when people ask you what your
> favorite airplane was out of all that you have flown. Difficult
> question.
> I'll keep you informed on the progress toward joining the
> Yakkety Yak ranks, and look forward to seeing what new wisdom
> comes up on this website daily.
>
> Fraternally, - Val (P.S. IT is a girl, enough of my torturing you
> guys. LOL)
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" |
<3BC69454F60ED311ABE10090274DBBC304099566@chpt0000se02.cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
<3BC69454F60ED311ABE10090274DBBC304099566@chpt0000se02.cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
6' 3" , 240#. Yak 52. Butler seat pack and (important) Hooker 5pt w/
ratchet. Keeps your head off the canopy when negative.
bob
> Val,.
> One thing I am curious about is why no one has mentioned anything
> about your height. Of course different people get their height from
> either long torso or leg length, and I have no idea which group you
> fit into. Each one has issues in some of the aircraft under
> discussion. I am 6 foot 6 1/2 inches tall, with a long torso, and I
> have really serious issues to the point that I can not even fly a
> CJ-6, ..... and in a YAK-52, I must replace the throttle "handle" and
> modify the seat pan to fly it at all. Amazingly enough, I fit into a
> YAK-50, although I did modify it to be more comfortable in the long run.
>
> I'm interested in what the break point is. I KNOW there have to be
> other tall guys out there that fit in "somehow", but I think you said
> you were 6 feet tall yourself, so it will be interesting to see what
> you think about the CJ once you fly it. Will your head smack into the
> canopy, etc., etc. Will you be able to fit in there with a chute?
>
> How many YAK and CJ owners are there out there that are 6 feet and
> over? Just wondering.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1@comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:44 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
>
> Dear Guys,
>
> An update on the CJ6 etc. As per some very excellent advice
> given by your members, I'll probably visit another YAK/CJ parts
> and Maintainence facility in Calif. and do more research as well.
> I'm still going to fly the CJ6 in PDX this week.
> Long ago I came to the realization that I both complain and
> debate "recreationally".( I do it because it's FUN.) If I had the
> wherewithal, I'd buy one of each of these wonderful aircraft for
> every day of the week. I love the differences. That's what makes
> it interesting.
> Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot from you Yakkety
> Yakkers and it's obvious that you all want me to have what you
> love most so that I can enjoy it as well.
> I am still leaning strongly toward the Nanchang and I
> suspect that is what I'll go with (sorry Cliff). It suits my
> particular profile for happiness, and I've never competed with
> anyone but myself.
> My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any
> illusions about ever having the opportunity to fly one. Even if I
> did get the opportunity and price were no object, I have no doubts
> that I'd want to make my final daily flying fun something more
> along the lines of the CJ/YAK that you're all doing.
> You all know how it is when people ask you what your
> favorite airplane was out of all that you have flown. Difficult
> question.
> I'll keep you informed on the progress toward joining the
> Yakkety Yak ranks, and look forward to seeing what new wisdom
> comes up on this website daily.
>
> Fraternally, - Val (P.S. IT is a girl, enough of my torturing you
> guys. LOL)
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: "Let's buy em ALL!" |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I forgot to say I fly with a Strong seat pack with the "space foam" pad. I
fold my canopy cover up and put it in the seat pan. That gets me the extra
inch I'm looking for to uncoiled my legs.
Anyway that is how I configure my cockpit for my 6'2" legs/torso.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/31/2005 6:59:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
>
> Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> 6' 3" , 240#. Yak 52. Butler seat pack and (important) Hooker 5pt w/
> ratchet. Keeps your head off the canopy when negative.
> bob
>
> > Val,.
> > One thing I am curious about is why no one has mentioned anything
> > about your height. Of course different people get their height from
> > either long torso or leg length, and I have no idea which group you
> > fit into. Each one has issues in some of the aircraft under
> > discussion. I am 6 foot 6 1/2 inches tall, with a long torso, and I
> > have really serious issues to the point that I can not even fly a
> > CJ-6, ..... and in a YAK-52, I must replace the throttle "handle" and
> > modify the seat pan to fly it at all. Amazingly enough, I fit into a
> > YAK-50, although I did modify it to be more comfortable in the long
run.
> >
> > I'm interested in what the break point is. I KNOW there have to be
> > other tall guys out there that fit in "somehow", but I think you said
> > you were 6 feet tall yourself, so it will be interesting to see what
> > you think about the CJ once you fly it. Will your head smack into the
> > canopy, etc., etc. Will you be able to fit in there with a chute?
> >
> > How many YAK and CJ owners are there out there that are 6 feet and
> > over? Just wondering.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* Valkyre1 [mailto:Valkyre1@comcast.net]
> > *Sent:* Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:44 AM
> > *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Yak-List: "Let's buy em ALL!"
> >
> > Dear Guys,
> >
> > An update on the CJ6 etc. As per some very excellent advice
> > given by your members, I'll probably visit another YAK/CJ parts
> > and Maintainence facility in Calif. and do more research as well.
> > I'm still going to fly the CJ6 in PDX this week.
> > Long ago I came to the realization that I both complain and
> > debate "recreationally".( I do it because it's FUN.) If I had the
> > wherewithal, I'd buy one of each of these wonderful aircraft for
> > every day of the week. I love the differences. That's what makes
> > it interesting.
> > Meanwhile, I have been learning a lot from you Yakkety
> > Yakkers and it's obvious that you all want me to have what you
> > love most so that I can enjoy it as well.
> > I am still leaning strongly toward the Nanchang and I
> > suspect that is what I'll go with (sorry Cliff). It suits my
> > particular profile for happiness, and I've never competed with
> > anyone but myself.
> > My ultimate dream machine is the SR-71, but I don't have any
> > illusions about ever having the opportunity to fly one. Even if I
> > did get the opportunity and price were no object, I have no doubts
> > that I'd want to make my final daily flying fun something more
> > along the lines of the CJ/YAK that you're all doing.
> > You all know how it is when people ask you what your
> > favorite airplane was out of all that you have flown. Difficult
> > question.
> > I'll keep you informed on the progress toward joining the
> > Yakkety Yak ranks, and look forward to seeing what new wisdom
> > comes up on this website daily.
> >
> > Fraternally, - Val (P.S. IT is a girl, enough of my torturing you
> > guys. LOL)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve |
Doug,
Can you tell me if there is available , a book, written in English, which
provides exploded views of systems-eg, pneumatics etc- specifically for
the YAK 50?
How much of the 52 pneumatics system components are found in the 50 ?
Obviously, there will be no nose gear plumbing, but is there a QS1
pressure reducing valve, or a QS2--differential brake valve in the 50
system? Thankyou for any information on this matter.
Cliff
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:29:19 -0800 "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
writes:
David,
The CJ6 book has a great exploded view of both the QS1 (pressure reducing
valve) and the QS2 Differential brake valve. I am told by TJ that the
parts to overhaul the one from the Yak are the same as used in the CJ.
If I can be of help with either or both items please do not hesitate to
give me a shout.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Marsh
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
Dennis,
yes, I've already stripped the brake differential unit but I'm still
having a problem that releasing the brake handle is not releasing all of
the brake pressure. I can hear the reducing valve continue hissing for
several seconds but there is still a residual braking action. If I then
waggle the rudder pedals, the differential unit will release the residual
pressure. That's why I want a better understand of the reducing valve.
It looks like a pig to reach; I want to know if it can be responsible for
this behaviour.
Dave.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
It's not in a very accessible location. The brake reducing valve is under
the floor on the right side in the rear cockpit directly in front of the
bulkhead where the flap actuator is located. Usually it's painted
green.
If your brake reducing valve is going bad, it will affect both the front
and rear brake handle.
An easy way to learn how the brake pressure is released is to squeeze and
lock the brake handle, then move the rudder pedals left and right. It's
best to have the front seat out. Then listen as you move the rudder
pedals or release the brake handle.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: David Marsh
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Brake Reducing Valve
So,
I'm looking through my Termikas parts manual for the a drawing of said
reducing valve and.... huh? My copy goes straight from Fig 7.6.5 to Fig
7.7. You've guessed it; I need Fig 7.6.6. Grrrr. Anybody got the scoop on
how this thing is mounted in a Yak? More to the point, how is the air
released when you let go of the brake handle?
Dave.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Was: EP of the Day - Now: Gunk |
In a message dated 10/31/2005 6:30:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com writes:
What I've done for a number of years is about twice a year, I put air tool
oil in the lines in and out of the actuators. They are fairly easy to
disconnect in the wheel well (I have the aerodynamic efficient CJ-6 you see).
Now
when I pressurize the system at the next start, the oil is blown into the
down-side of the actuator. When I move the handle up, the oil in the up-lines
is
blown into the up-side of the actuator. This become quite evident when the
misted air-tool oil from the down side of the actuator comes out the exhaust
port at the gear handle. Likewise when the gear handle is put down the
process reverses and again I get oil out at the gear handle - this time from the
up side of the actuators. It's quite evident that the entire or least most of
the system is being lube.
Can be a little messy but I feel the inter surfaces of the lines and
actuators are covered with the water repellent and lubrication qualities of air-tool
oil. I do this with the flap also.
I've never found anything like harden "gunk" in my system.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 47
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| Subject: | Is Nomex good enough? |
Fellow Yak/CJ pilots:
I'm posting a thread on a discussion that was posted on the aerobatic list for
the AIC group that I though might be of interest to you all. It's regarding the
selection of fire resistant flight suits. Although it was written with the
aerobatic pilot in mind I thought it also pertinent to our group as well. It
might get some discussion going on in this group regarding this very important
subject. Is Nomex good enough?
Greg Arnold
Yak 52 Driver
N624PT
Flightsuits--Revisited
by Spencer Suderman
Several months ago there was a discussion thread regarding flightsuit usage in
aerobatic airplanes. This is an intriguing topic that encouraged me to engage
in a fair amount of research into a solution for aerobatic pilots and frankly,
was shocked by some of what I learned about the risk from fire where accelerants
(gasoline) are present.
Aerobatic pilots and race car drivers share many of the same hazards resulting
from a crash in their operating environments; gasoline spray and fires. The other
issue in common is overheating and dehydration. For many years the race car
drivers have reduced these risks by wearing protective clothing that utilizes
innovative fabrics and clever construction techniques.
While car racing gets safer every year due to the implementation of lessons learned
both in the winners circle and tragedies alike, aviation as a whole and aerobatics
in particular moves slower than molasses in January. Most aerobatic
pilots fly airplanes built upon World War 2 era technology with the last paradigm
shift in the sport occurring over twenty years ago when monoplanes started
beating biplanes in competition.
Wearing a Nomex=AE flight suit in the cockpit of an acro-mount is a waste of time
and money:
1. The design and construction of most aerobatic aircraft with a fuel tank located
inside the cockpit means that in a crash the probability of a fuel tank rupture
and gasoline coming into contact with the pilot is virtually guaranteed.
Furthermore, lets not forget that high-tech fuel gauge consisting of a piece
of clear tubing that is fastened to the instrument panel of virtually every Pitts
literally inches from your body!
2. Nomex=AE absorbs liquids like a sponge.
3. A single layer of Nomex=AE carries the lowest protective rating according
to SFI,
http://www.sfifoundation.com/
Additionally, if you get covered in fuel, that $240 Nomex=AE suit is no better
than a T-shirt and jeans when it comes to fire protection.
While a pair of cotton jeans will do a reasonable job of insulating you from thermal
energy for very short periods of time, natural fibers (cotton, wool) also
have the property of not supporting combustion in the absence of external heat.
Natural fibers will absorb liquids such as fuel so if you get drenched you
will be toast, literally.
It would however, be better to wear cotton or wool than synthetic fabrics because
the natural fibers don't support combustion nor do they melt into your skin
when they do burn.
You don't fly wearing polyester or nylon against your skin, do you?
The "proper" aerobatic flight suit
The solution is to wear a suit made from a fabric called Dale Antiflame=AE made from 100% cotton and treated for flame and fluid resistance. (http://www.daleas.com/)
A single layer suit of this material carries an SFI rating of 5 while a single
layer Nomex=AE suit carries an SFI rating of 1. Most race car drivers are wearing
this fabric either alone or in layers with other aramids such as Kevlar
to gain increased fire protection.
The problem of overheating and dehydration is addressed through the design and
construction of the suit itself. Sewing in panels of knit Nomex=AE on the small
of the back and shoulder areas, air circulation is achieved while minimizing
the total amount of Nomex=AE in the suit.
Gloves and Shoes
The military flight gloves with leather palms and knit Nomex=AE backs are problematic
in a fire as well. Leather is an excellent conductor of heat and shrinks
when heated. The reason we wear gloves for fire protection is to protect
our hands and keep them useful in a fire. The leather next to your skin has to
go! Racing gloves which are full Nomex=AE with leather palms sewn on are a
better choice.
If you wear suede racing shoes with a Nomex=AE lining make sure that the laces
are cotton NOT leather or Kevlar. In a fire you want the laces to burn off the
shoes so when the leather shrinks they won't bind your feet.
Sources
Most of the racing suit manufacturers use the same materials to manufacture their
products. I was lucky enough to find a manufacturing facility within close
proximity.
Not to far from Whiteman Airport in the San Fernando Valley is Pyrotect's manufacturing facility that makes racing suits under the brand "Pyrotect", formerly Bell Motorsports. http://www.pyrotect.com/
During a visit to Pyrotect, I met with Larry, the manager of the facility. I was
educated about vehicle fires, flame resistant fabrics and construction techniques.
Pyrotect sells ready made suits, fully custom suits and will modify a
standard suit to the buyer's specification. Larry and I designed a suit for
an aerobatic airplane pilot by starting with the standard model SV-5 and adding
an extra shoulder vent, zippered pockets and zippered legs. Since I am tall,
the suit has longer arms and legs to cover me when sitting in the airplane.
The cost--$380.00 ($299 for the standard suit plus custom options)
Compared to the $240.00 cost of a new Nomex=AE military flight suit with 1/5 of
the thermal protection and the ability to soak up fuel and turn the wearer into
a human tiki torch, this seemed like a bargain.
This suit uses the Dale Antiflame=AE fabric in a single layer. You can reach Larry
at (818) 768-7771 .
Comments and feedback are appreciated.
Spencer Suderman
http://www.beasafepilot.com
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