---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/11/05: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:20 AM - CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Frank Haertlein) 2. 03:36 AM - against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. (Frank Haertlein) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Roger Kemp) 4. 06:48 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Fraser, Gus) 5. 06:49 AM - Re: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Clas (Fraser, Gus) 6. 07:07 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Fraser, Gus) 7. 07:32 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Richard Basiliere) 8. 07:32 AM - Re: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Clas s B (David Marsh) 9. 08:52 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (gpa) 10. 09:35 AM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Richard Basiliere) 11. 12:22 PM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (Brian Lloyd) 12. 01:21 PM - Re: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 (gpa) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:23 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:42 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. FAA FEELS AOPA, PILOT PRESSURE, PLANS ADIZ MEETINGS Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta promised it last Thursday at AOPA Expo in Tampa. Now the FAA has delivered the formal paperwork ( http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/051107adiz-nprm.pdf ), reopening the comment period on the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). Already more than 18,600 pilots--an unprecedented number-- have spoken out against making the ADIZ permanent around Washington and against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. Pilots now have until February 6, 2006, to file their comments. And the FAA has also granted AOPA's request for public meetings on the ADIZ, saying that the meeting dates will be published in a future document. "Even with the weight of more than 18,600 comments, the public meetings are important as well," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "And besides the FAA, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, and Secret Service need to be front and center at these meetings. They're the ones making decisions controlling the airspace; they need to look pilots in the eye and hear firsthand what their decisions are doing to general aviation." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:14 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 good advise, nothing to add. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:10 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience. When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot Message Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience.When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10)of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From:un-named YAK pilot AM Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:12 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" s B airspace. Subject: RE: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Clas s B airspace. As I said before if you choose not to speak up on this explain to your kids why they may not be able to fly as a private pilot when they grow up. Gus _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. FAA FEELS AOPA, PILOT PRESSURE, PLANS ADIZ MEETINGS Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta promised it last Thursday at AOPA Expo in Tampa. Now the FAA has delivered the formal paperwork ( http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/051107adiz-nprm.pdf ), reopening the comment period on the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). Already more than 18,600 pilots--an unprecedented number-- have spoken out against making the ADIZ permanent around Washington and against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. Pilots now have until February 6, 2006, to file their comments. And the FAA has also granted AOPA's request for public meetings on the ADIZ, saying that the meeting dates will be published in a future document. "Even with the weight of more than 18,600 comments, the public meetings are important as well," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "And besides the FAA, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, and Secret Service need to be front and center at these meetings. They're the ones making decisions controlling the airspace; they need to look pilots in the eye and hear firsthand what their decisions are doing to general aviation." Message As I said before if you choose not to speak up on this explain to your kids why they may not be able to fly as a private pilot when they grow up. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. FAA FEELS AOPA, PILOT PRESSURE, PLANS ADIZ MEETINGS Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta promised it last Thursday at AOPA Expo in Tampa. Now the FAA has delivered the formal paperwork ( http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/051107adiz-nprm.pdf ), reopening the comment period on the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). Already more than 18,600 pilots--an unprecedented number-- have spoken out against making the ADIZ permanent around Washington and against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. Pilots now have until February 6, 2006, to file their comments. And the FAA has also granted AOPA's request for public meetings on the ADIZ, saying that the meeting dates will be published in a future document. "Even with the weight of more than 18,600 comments, the public meetings are important as well," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "And besides the FAA, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, and Secret Service need to be front and center at these meetings. They're the ones making decisions controlling the airspace; they need to look pilots in the eye and hear firsthand what their decisions are doing to general aviation." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:06 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Sorry in my reply I said 170 and 200 kts , of course I meant kph. Gus _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience. When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot Message Sorry in my reply I said 170 and 200 kts , of course I meant kph. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus 'yak-list@matronics.com' Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience.When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10)of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From:un-named YAK pilot AM Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:08 AM PST US From: "Richard Basiliere" Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 FYI, my 2 cents. If you haven't had a good mountain check out - stay out of the "Rock". Go south through ABQ - Double Eagle usually has cheap self serve. If you want a check out - stop in - little mountain airports, tricky winds, and high density altitude have left way too many aluminum and human entrails up there. Just for giggles: When Nik Timofeev and I flew SU-31 and SU-29 from the Front Range (flat part of eastern CO) to Grand Junction it puckered Nik as we snaked our way through the Rock... Respectfully, Rick b >>> gus.fraser@gs.com 11/11/2005 8:06:36 AM >>> Sorry in my reply I said 170 and 200 kts , of course I meant kph. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience. When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:10 AM PST US From: David Marsh airspace. Subject: Re: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Clas s B airspace. <809EE69495907C4792DA146F62A2937A039C39C7@gsnmp21es.firmwide.corp.gs.com> MessageFolks, I'm a for'ner and even I felt compelled to write to the FAA. I hope by now there is nobody reading this list who has not commented. I don't have a congressman, but most of you do. WRITE ! I wish AOPA had drawn the line in the sand over the moving TFR nonsense, but they didn't. They drew it hear. Fail to shoot this proposal down and you will open the floodgates for every populist talking head with an election to win. Dave. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser, Gus To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:48 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Clas s B airspace. As I said before if you choose not to speak up on this explain to your kids why they may not be able to fly as a private pilot when they grow up. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 6:36 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. FAA FEELS AOPA, PILOT PRESSURE, PLANS ADIZ MEETINGS Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta promised it last Thursday at AOPA Expo in Tampa. Now the FAA has delivered the formal paperwork ( http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2005/051107adiz-nprm.pdf ), reopening the comment period on the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). Already more than 18,600 pilots--an unprecedented number-- have spoken out against making the ADIZ permanent around Washington and against allowing ADIZs to metastasize to other Class B airspace. Pilots now have until February 6, 2006, to file their comments. And the FAA has also granted AOPA's request for public meetings on the ADIZ, saying that the meeting dates will be published in a future document. "Even with the weight of more than 18,600 comments, the public meetings are important as well," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "And besides the FAA, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, and Secret Service need to be front and center at these meetings. They're the ones making decisions controlling the airspace; they need to look pilots in the eye and hear firsthand what their decisions are doing to general aviation." Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:21 AM PST US From: "gpa" Subject: Re: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 MessageI grew up in Southern California and learned to fly out that way across all of those pointy things. I got a few never again stories of my own. If you're not experienced flying in mountains please don't attempt it unless you have someone along who has real mountain flying experience. If you are bound and determined to do it though, I would cross even further south than ABQ, down by Carlesbad, NM. After the pass at Guadalupe just south Carlesbad the terrain gets "easy". Once through the pass follow I-10 north of El Paso up through Deming, Lordsburg, Conchise County, and Tucson. After that follow the highway into Yuma (Hwy 8?). I certainly would not cross the rockies anywhere further north. Stay over roads always. Good Luck Greg Arnold N624PT ----------------------------------------- An aircraft in a hangar is safe, but that's not what aircraft are built for. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Basiliere To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:31 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 FYI, my 2 cents. If you haven't had a good mountain check out - stay out of the "Rock". Go south through ABQ - Double Eagle usually has cheap self serve. If you want a check out - stop in - little mountain airports, tricky winds, and high density altitude have left way too many aluminum and human entrails up there. Just for giggles: When Nik Timofeev and I flew SU-31 and SU-29 from the Front Range (flat part of eastern CO) to Grand Junction it puckered Nik as we snaked our way through the Rock... Respectfully, Rick b >>> gus.fraser@gs.com 11/11/2005 8:06:36 AM >>> Sorry in my reply I said 170 and 200 kts , of course I meant kph. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 9:48 AM To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience. When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 6:19 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:25 AM To: Frank Haertlein Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:01 AM PST US From: "Richard Basiliere" Subject: Re: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Amen >>> catfsh4u@bellsouth.net 11/11/2005 9:50:04 AM >>> I grew up in Southern California and learned to fly out that way across all of those pointy things. I got a few never again stories of my own. If you're not experienced flying in mountains please don't attempt it unless you have someone along who has real mountain flying experience. If you are bound and determined to do it though, I would cross even further south than ABQ, down by Carlesbad, NM. After the pass at Guadalupe just south Carlesbad the terrain gets "easy". Once through the pass follow I-10 north of El Paso up through Deming, Lordsburg, Conchise County, and Tucson. After that follow the highway into Yuma (Hwy 8?). I certainly would not cross the rockies anywhere further north. Stay over roads always. Good Luck Greg Arnold N624PT ----------------------------------------- An aircraft in a hangar is safe, but that's not what aircraft are built for. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Basiliere Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 FYI, my 2 cents. If you haven't had a good mountain check out - stay out of the "Rock". Go south through ABQ - Double Eagle usually has cheap self serve. If you want a check out - stop in - little mountain airports, tricky winds, and high density altitude have left way too many aluminum and human entrails up there. Just for giggles: When Nik Timofeev and I flew SU-31 and SU-29 from the Front Range (flat part of eastern CO) to Grand Junction it puckered Nik as we snaked our way through the Rock... Respectfully, Rick b >>> gus.fraser@gs.com 11/11/2005 8:06:36 AM >>> Sorry in my reply I said 170 and 200 kts , of course I meant kph. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Subject: RE: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 Just one thing to add. If you don't have a fuel usage computer this will not be obvious. Depending on winds you may be able to get up to about 10,000 ft. In my experience this is the critical altitude for this engine. There is no critical altitude published this is just from my experience. When flying at altitude have the pitch back as far as your fillings will allow and the boost forward. Remember up there you will not be over square, not that that is an issue for this engine anyway. Doing this I can get 9-10 gallons an hour at best cruise indicated. This was in the summer so you should do even better this time of year. This comes with a very strong word of caution. Remember that as you start to descend your fuel usage will go up, and possibly by a large amount. Expect your fuel usage to go up to at least 12-14 gallons an hour below 5,000, and remember to reduce boost on the way down. This is only an issue if you try and stretch the fuel. You will be tempted to go for a few extra knots, don't that aerofoil will cost you if you do that. Somewhere between 170 and 200 kts should be about right. Anything faster than that and you will be in the 14-18 gal per hour area. Basically as with most flying get up as much as you can for cross country based on the winds. Hope this helps. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 YAKKERS Sent the following to a fellow, un-named YAK driver after he asked advice on going from Minnesota to Southern Cal. Anyone want to add to this? He reads this list so he'll see your responses...if any. Thanks Frank N9110M K32 To un-named YAK pilot........................ Glad to hear you are getting close to a purchase. I should be back in the Antelope Valley in a year or thereabouts. I miss the deserts and the mountains.....Kansas is flat as a slate table studded with radio towers. Biggest thrill so far has been flying low along the Arkansas River.....and it can't hold a candle to flying in the west. About flying from Minnesota to AV..... I suggest using the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. I used it for my flight to Wichita and found it indispensable. Plan your legs for no more than 200 miles....maybe 150 mile legs since you're going east to west with the unfavorable winds. The 52 has limited range so keep this at the top of your mind as you fly. Don't push your luck. When those fuel gauges read 20 liters you should be in the pattern! You'll find plenty of small airports along the way with fuel IF you use the fuel stop planner from www.airnav.com. Airnav computes a great circle route for you. Make sure to print out all (10) of the different routes that are calculated for you. Make sure you use a good GPS and, preferably, keep a spare on hand. Borrow one if you have to! It's going to take you two days so plan your stops with the end of the day in mind. You'll want to overnight at some convenient place so plan accordingly. Allot of small towns don't have even a taxi service. When crossing the Rockies plan a path over a low section in the mountains. Otherwise choose a path that keeps a road under you as you cross. Keeps you from needing to go too high and gives you a place to land if there's a failure. I carried extra oil with me. Most of all, have fun and don't go too high....if you do you'll miss the natural beauty of this country from a perspective that only aviators can experience! And watch out for all them dammed radio towers they have out east! Best Regards Frank YAK-52 N9110M K32 ----------------Original Message-------------------- From: un-named YAK pilot Subject: Someone had to replace your Yak Say Frank, How is Wichita treating you? Someone has to replace the Yak gap you left in the Antelope Valley and it is looking like it may be me! I have negotiated on one in Minnesota and it looks like a deal as of now. Basically, I am going to have the opposite trip that you had. Any recommendations? Un-named YAK pilot ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:33 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd gpa wrote: > Lordsburg, Conchise County, and Tucson. After that follow the highway > into Yuma (Hwy 8?). I certainly would not cross the rockies anywhere > further north. Stay over roads always. There are lots of great places to cross. If the weather is good you can go across the high plains of Wyoming. It is lovely. Scotts Bluff, NE Rock Springs, WY Ft. Bridger, WY Provo, UT I can't count how many times I have crossed using that route. There are some good routes up through Montana too. And the real threat is not the Rockies, it is the Sierra Nevada. I taught my son Cameron mountain flying in our Piper Clipper (now there is an airplane with *NO* high-density-altitude performance). He got the message the first time we took off from Truckee and his climb gradient was less than the inclination of the terrain. (There was no threat as there was lower terrain he could easily reach but he was fixated on flying the standard traffic pattern.) I could see his eyes getting bigger when I finally said, "those trees are sure getting bigger." He said, "Yeah!" I then asked if he thought he was going to clear them. He said, "No, I don't think we can get over them." I waited a couple seconds more and then asked the critical question, "So, what are you going to do?" I then asked, "So, where is there lower terrain?" He indicated off to the left. I then asked, "Don't you think we ought to go over there then?" He replied, "But that is the glider pattern. We aren't a glider." I responded with, "Yeah, but right now they have more performance than you do." Flying to lower terrain solved the problem. The experience was priceless. BTW, he and his little brother took the Clipper and flew around the US that summer, including a side jaunt to Oshkosh. Those of you who were at OSH in 2000 probably remember meeting them. So don't be afraid of the left side of the country. Your Yak-52 has a lot of performance. Mostly you need to give yourself lots of altitude and watch for areas of sink that will exceed your rate of climb. Oh, and no flying up box canyons. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:11 PM PST US From: "gpa" Subject: Re: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 --> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" Glad to hear there are good places other than southern rockies to cross. I would LOVE to go that way across Wyoming. You say watch your rate of sink?..yeah, that's an understatement. Nothing like waching that altimeter unwind over the mountains at over 2,000 feet a minute. And that's on a nice day. So far I've only taken the southern route since I've always had to get to So Cal and I'm coming through from Alabama. When I lived in Northern California I'd cross in the "low" spot where the Sierras and the Cascades come together around Mt. Lassen. I got tip tanks on my Yak which gives me approximately 74 gallons total fuel. I'll look into the Wyoming crossing next time for sure. Thanks. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" Subject: Re: Yak-List: CROSS COUNTRY IN A 52 > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > gpa wrote: > >> Lordsburg, Conchise County, and Tucson. After that follow the highway >> into Yuma (Hwy 8?). I certainly would not cross the rockies anywhere >> further north. Stay over roads always. > > There are lots of great places to cross. If the weather is good you can go > across the high plains of Wyoming. It is lovely. > > Scotts Bluff, NE > Rock Springs, WY > Ft. Bridger, WY > Provo, UT > > I can't count how many times I have crossed using that route. There are > some good routes up through Montana too. > > And the real threat is not the Rockies, it is the Sierra Nevada. > > I taught my son Cameron mountain flying in our Piper Clipper (now there is > an airplane with *NO* high-density-altitude performance). He got the > message the first time we took off from Truckee and his climb gradient was > less than the inclination of the terrain. (There was no threat as there > was lower terrain he could easily reach but he was fixated on flying the > standard traffic pattern.) I could see his eyes getting bigger when I > finally said, "those trees are sure getting bigger." > > He said, "Yeah!" > > I then asked if he thought he was going to clear them. > > He said, "No, I don't think we can get over them." > > I waited a couple seconds more and then asked the critical question, "So, > what are you going to do?" > > > > I then asked, "So, where is there lower terrain?" > > He indicated off to the left. > > I then asked, "Don't you think we ought to go over there then?" > > He replied, "But that is the glider pattern. We aren't a glider." > > I responded with, "Yeah, but right now they have more performance than you > do." > > Flying to lower terrain solved the problem. The experience was priceless. > > BTW, he and his little brother took the Clipper and flew around the US > that summer, including a side jaunt to Oshkosh. Those of you who were at > OSH in 2000 probably remember meeting them. > > So don't be afraid of the left side of the country. Your Yak-52 has a lot > of performance. Mostly you need to give yourself lots of altitude and > watch for areas of sink that will exceed your rate of climb. Oh, and no > flying up box canyons. > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > >