Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Craig Payne)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Frank Haertlein)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Stephen Fox)
4. 06:31 AM - 1000psi air compressor (mark williamson)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Getting off the List (Ernest Martinez)
6. 07:01 AM - Gear ups (Tom Johnson)
7. 07:18 AM - Re: Gear ups (Ernest Martinez)
8. 08:08 AM - Re: Getting off the List (Roger Kemp)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Gear ups (Roger Kemp)
10. 08:31 AM - Re: Getting off the List (Ernest Martinez)
11. 08:36 AM - Cockpit Lights (Ernest Martinez)
12. 08:36 AM - Re: Gear ups (mark williamson)
13. 08:43 AM - Re: Gear ups (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
14. 09:03 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
15. 09:12 AM - Re: Gear ups (Ernest Martinez)
16. 09:37 AM - Re: Gear ups (Roger Kemp)
17. 09:43 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Ernest Martinez)
18. 10:28 AM - Re: Gear ups (Walter Lannon)
19. 10:43 AM - Re: Gear ups (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
20. 10:49 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
21. 10:56 AM - Re: Gear ups (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
22. 11:15 AM - Re: Gear ups (Ernest Martinez)
23. 11:16 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Ernest Martinez)
24. 11:32 AM - Re: Cockpit Lights (Doug Sapp)
25. 11:40 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
26. 11:47 AM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Brian Lloyd)
27. 11:54 AM - Flex line (Doug Sapp)
28. 12:12 PM - Re: Cockpit Lights (Ernest Martinez)
29. 12:15 PM - Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
30. 12:20 PM - Re: Flex line (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
31. 12:44 PM - Re: Flex line (Doug Sapp)
32. 01:24 PM - Running again:-) (Buzzard Aviation)
33. 01:47 PM - Re: Gear ups (A. Dennis Savarese)
34. 01:54 PM - Re: Gear ups (A. Dennis Savarese)
35. 03:12 PM - Re: Gear ups (Walter Lannon)
36. 03:13 PM - Re: Getting off the List (seancrotty@aol.com)
37. 04:05 PM - Re: Gear ups (Frank Haertlein)
38. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving Tampa temps
into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue I had 10 years
ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day, with mid-day surface
temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that my Oil Pressure
was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop RPM (Huosai).
Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I happened to be over
an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I noticed that oil
pressure was back up. What??
Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and low air
temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil bypass valve
in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing down in the pattern
helped raise temps and all was well again.
Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet and Outlet
temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following that incident,
I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the cooler and bypass
valve.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
I'll second what Craig said about cold weather operations. A number of years
ago in my 52, on a cold morning, I was over Edwards AFB restricted at 7500
going east under flight following when my oil pressure started to drop. It
slowly went from a normal of 5 to about 2.5. I figured it was the cold doing
it. I declared an emergency and dropped down into warmer air and the Edwards
restricted area.
Amazing how much co-operation I got from the controllers (Joshua) after
declaring an emergency. They were more than helpful and didn't say a thing
about dropping down into the restricted area. He even said THANK YOU just
before I changed over to Barstow Unicom (must have been a slow morning). But
then again I was way east near Barstow.........I wouldn't want to bust the
restricted today though.......a few months back F16's intercepted a twin
flying circles over Lancaster at 14000. And he WASN'T EVEN OVER THE
RESTRICTED AREA! He was about five miles west of it. They forced him down
for questioning.........Turns out he was doing a photo mission for a housing
developer looking into growth patterns for the area.
Anyway, as I lost altitude and got into warmer air, the oil pressure slowly
came back up and was near normal when I landed at Barstow.
I blocked about 1/3 the oil cooler with a piece of tight fitting foam and
then temps were operating in the green at altitude.
Frank
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
On Nov 18, 2005, at 8:46 AM, Frank Haertlein wrote:
> I blocked about 1/3 the oil cooler with a piece of tight fitting
> foam and then temps were operating in the green at altitude.
I'm in New England and starting about now 30 degree days and colder
on the ground are the norm and higher up well you can imagine. My Yak
came with a aluminum cooler block with three 1"X4" cut outs that
clips right into the front of my oil cooler. This does an excellent
job of keeping oil temps in the green. For anyone interested you can
see it in the last picture on my web photo album, link below.
Steve "SOB" Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
Message 4
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| Subject: | 1000psi air compressor |
--> Yak-List message posted by: mark williamson <yakk52@verizon.net>
some of you may be interested in this (from barnstormers):
PORTABLE COMPRESSOR ? FOR SALE ? Air compressor by General Electric 1000psi 28VDC
Smaller and lighter than Cornelius: 13" 9lbs ? Contact Nino Bossi - located
Greenbelt, MD USA ? Telephone: 5049105136 ? Fax: 4137931352
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Getting off the List |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
May we ask why?
On 11/17/05, seancrotty@aol.com <seancrotty@aol.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know how I can get off the list?
>
> Sean
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Doug:
Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
discount program).
But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
It should be an approved system with some documentation.
Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
throttle position.
The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
up comes the gear.
Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
Open Fire.
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
How much would such a system cost?
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Tom Johnson <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
> Doug:
> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> discount program).
> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> throttle position.
> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
> up comes the gear.
>
> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
> Open Fire.
>
> ---------------------------
> Thomas Johnson
> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> Tel: 602-628-2701
> Fax: 623-321-5843
> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Getting off the List |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Probably my cynical statements with double, sometimes triple, meanings.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Getting off the List
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
May we ask why?
On 11/17/05, seancrotty@aol.com <seancrotty@aol.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know how I can get off the list?
>
> Sean
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Oh, I forgot to add my last technique. After landing and during rollout touch nothing
that moves the prop pitch, flaps or gear. Only use the brakes and the rudder,
maybe throttle to taxi clear of active.
Once past the hold short line, once again see, identify, say, and move it. Try
coming from the left side to the cockpit around. Flaps..up, pitch...full forward...
and finally gear...locked. Then taxi back. Engine shut down is the same
way...starting from the left side of the cockpit around.
Still using the KISS principle. We add more moving parts to fray...more likely
something will go wrong.
If you want to use a gear warning system...make it a simple circuit. Leave the
sexy lady hollering in your ear out. Instead make it noctious horn loud enough
to scare the sh** out of the ramp rat 1500 ft below you.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
How much would such a system cost?
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Tom Johnson <tomjohnson@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
> Doug:
> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> discount program).
> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> throttle position.
> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
> up comes the gear.
>
> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
> Open Fire.
>
> ---------------------------
> Thomas Johnson
> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> Tel: 602-628-2701
> Fax: 623-321-5843
> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Getting off the List |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Goto
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Follow instructions.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Probably my cynical statements with double, sometimes triple, meanings.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> Sent: Nov 18, 2005 8:50 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Getting off the List
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> May we ask why?
>
>
> On 11/17/05, seancrotty@aol.com <seancrotty@aol.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone know how I can get off the list?
> >
> > Sean
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
My cockpit lights arent coming onin my CJ. Before I go on a trouble
shooting hunt, any obvious things I should look for? Neither
flourecent bulb is turning on, circuit breaker is on, allowing plenty
of time for wam up. Where is the ballast for these lights? I've
jiggled and turned the iris on the lamps.
Thanks
Ernie
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: mark williamson <yakk52@verizon.net>
I think the development, test and "acceptance" costs could be prohibitive on something
like this.
I think I know the answer for this, but howsabout a policy written to the effect
that if i wheel-up my airplane or wreck it and kill myself then the i eat the
costs of the damage? seems like this would save us all (insurance company and
pilots) a lot of money.
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
>Doug:
>Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
>discount program).
>But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
>Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
>SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
>This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>throttle position.
>The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
>So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
>and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
>up comes the gear.
>
>Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
>allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
>Open Fire.
>
>---------------------------
>Thomas Johnson
>Airpower Insurance, LLC
>36 West Ocotillo Road
>Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>Tel: 602-628-2701
>Fax: 623-321-5843
>E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
Message 13
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Tom,
Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the throttle.
Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that. Any
weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the military
does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be opening
and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
position to actuate a warning horn.
Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the distance
from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would give
enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Doug:
Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
discount program).
But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
It should be an approved system with some documentation.
Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
throttle position.
The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
up comes the gear.
Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
Open Fire.
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
The last time I took my oil cooler out, I put it back into it's original
configuration. I.E., I installed the oil thermostat. This replaces the oil
bypass valve. A lot of people on this list have bad things to say about
that, and I am not going to argue with them. However, this thermostat is
still standard issue on this same oil cooler when it is used in helicopters,
and it was standard issue on the very first YAK's using the M-14.
I have run it now for 2 years, and my feedback is this:
1. Engine oil temp warms up immediately (well, no kidding the oil cooler is
being bypassed).
2. As the oil is coming up to temp., a fair amount of that heat is put into
the oil cooler itself causing any residual oil in the oil cooler to warm up
too. The thermostat valve does not open "all at once", but instead SLOWLY
opens. You can watch it happen by hawking the oil temp gage.
3. Flying with outside air temps below 20 degrees results in oil temps that
are well into the green, even with cylinder head temps extremely low.
4. No problems with oil pressure. I also pre-heat the oil with a set of
EZ-HEAT pads.
5. In anything other than HOT HOT weather, I never have to bother with the
Oil Cooler door.
Two years now, and it is still working perfectly.
One downside... and I am not sure why this is but..... when I pull the rpm
back to 60% and the throttle back with it.... as in, "I slow way way down",
the oil temp. goes UP. Hmmm. Not into the red, or even the yellow, but
high green anyway. Regardless, it does go UP. Bringing the engine to 80%
cures this, and it goes back down to mid green. Not really a "problem"...
but interesting never-the-less.
I am not advocating that everyone do this. However it does seem to work for
me.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Payne [mailto:cpayne@joimail.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving Tampa
temps into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue I
had 10 years ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day, with
mid-day surface temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that my
Oil Pressure was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop RPM
(Huosai). Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I happened
to be over an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I
noticed that oil pressure was back up. What??
Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and low
air temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil
bypass valve in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing down in
the pattern helped raise temps and all was well again.
Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet and
Outlet temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following that
incident, I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the
cooler and bypass valve.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com <mailto:cpayne@joimail.com>
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
throttle movements.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the throttle.
> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that. Any
> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the military
> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>
> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be opening
> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>
> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> position to actuate a warning horn.
>
> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the distance
> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would give
> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
> Doug:
> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> discount program).
> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> throttle position.
> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
> up comes the gear.
>
> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
> Open Fire.
>
> ---------------------------
> Thomas Johnson
> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> Tel: 602-628-2701
> Fax: 623-321-5843
> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
>
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
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>
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Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Guys,
I am telling you, Dennis Savarese has already stabbed this steely beast in the
heart with a simple system that the poster yesterday alluded to. It is a simple
circuit between the flaps down lights and the gear up lights. When the flaps
are down and the Gear is up...the horn blows your ass out of the hanger! It
was all done with off the shelf parts at radio shack. If you want it certified
get a IA to come swing your gear on jacks and make a log book entry. He now puts
his privates on the liability line with his signature in your log book. Make
it part of the annual inspection since you already have to swing the gear anyway
after reassembling the air tanks. You can even add a comment to the check
list like: "Audible gear warning horn noted with flap extension and gear in
up postion."
Would that not do it?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gear ups
Tom,
Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the throttle.
Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that. Any
weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the military
does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be opening
and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
position to actuate a warning horn.
Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the distance
from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would give
enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Doug:
Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
discount program).
But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
It should be an approved system with some documentation.
Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
throttle position.
The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
up comes the gear.
Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
Open Fire.
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Probably need the RPM for the oil pressure to be high enough to
overcome the restiction of the valve.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
> The last time I took my oil cooler out, I put it back into it's original
> configuration. I.E., I installed the oil thermostat. This replaces the oil
> bypass valve. A lot of people on this list have bad things to say about
> that, and I am not going to argue with them. However, this thermostat is
> still standard issue on this same oil cooler when it is used in helicopters,
> and it was standard issue on the very first YAK's using the M-14.
>
> I have run it now for 2 years, and my feedback is this:
>
> 1. Engine oil temp warms up immediately (well, no kidding the oil cooler is
> being bypassed).
> 2. As the oil is coming up to temp., a fair amount of that heat is put into
> the oil cooler itself causing any residual oil in the oil cooler to warm up
> too. The thermostat valve does not open "all at once", but instead SLOWLY
> opens. You can watch it happen by hawking the oil temp gage.
> 3. Flying with outside air temps below 20 degrees results in oil temps that
> are well into the green, even with cylinder head temps extremely low.
> 4. No problems with oil pressure. I also pre-heat the oil with a set of
> EZ-HEAT pads.
> 5. In anything other than HOT HOT weather, I never have to bother with the
> Oil Cooler door.
>
> Two years now, and it is still working perfectly.
>
> One downside... and I am not sure why this is but..... when I pull the rpm
> back to 60% and the throttle back with it.... as in, "I slow way way down",
> the oil temp. goes UP. Hmmm. Not into the red, or even the yellow, but
> high green anyway. Regardless, it does go UP. Bringing the engine to 80%
> cures this, and it goes back down to mid green. Not really a "problem"...
> but interesting never-the-less.
>
> I am not advocating that everyone do this. However it does seem to work for
> me.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Payne [mailto:cpayne@joimail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:53 AM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
>
>
> As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving Tampa
> temps into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue I
> had 10 years ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day, with
> mid-day surface temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
>
> Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that my
> Oil Pressure was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop RPM
> (Huosai). Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I happened
> to be over an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I
> noticed that oil pressure was back up. What??
>
> Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and low
> air temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil
> bypass valve in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing down in
> the pattern helped raise temps and all was well again.
>
> Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet and
> Outlet temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following that
> incident, I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the
> cooler and bypass valve.
>
>
> Craig Payne
> cpayne@joimail.com
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full extension
of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
will happen unless the gear is selected up.
The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
shut-off valve??????????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
>
> Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> throttle movements.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
>> throttle.
>> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
>> Any
>> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
>> military
>> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>>
>> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
>> opening
>> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>>
>> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
>> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
>> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
>> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
>> position to actuate a warning horn.
>>
>> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
>> distance
>> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
>> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
>> give
>> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
>> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
>> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>>
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>>
>> Doug:
>> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
>> discount program).
>> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>>
>> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>>
>> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
>> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>> throttle position.
>> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
>> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
>> handle
>> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
>> handle,
>> up comes the gear.
>>
>> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
>> that
>> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>>
>> Open Fire.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> Thomas Johnson
>> Airpower Insurance, LLC
>> 36 West Ocotillo Road
>> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>> Tel: 602-628-2701
>> Fax: 623-321-5843
>> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Support Your Lists This Month --
>> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
>> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
>> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>>
>>
>> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Ernie,
You're absolutely correct.... "good formation technique would require little
if any full closed throttle movements."
That said, try recovering from an inverted spin with anything other than a
fully closed throttle.
My world is aerobatics, formation flying is fun ..... but to me it is number
two on the list, and I do not want any kind of loud HORN blaring in my ear
regardless of where I happen to put the throttle, and neither do I want the
air pressure being turned off and on to the landing gear during flight. To
each his own of course.
And just to be a tad contrary:
What I described is indeed a kind of "squat switch". The proper engineering
nomenclature is: Weight on Wheels switch, or possibly Weight OFF Wheels
switch, depending on the application.
Yes, it is a given that when operating off of rough terrain such a switch
could momentary disengage, and of course if the gear selector was in the up
position.. the gear could come up. Of course, having the switch tied into
the throttle would also cause the same problem. As soon as you went to full
power.... up would come the gear. So, which is worse?
Additionally, if you made a partial power take-off... like I have to do
every time I fly formation take-offs with anything not quite as hot as my
50, I would not be able to get the gear up at all. Requiring a "Knock it
off, I have to raise my gear" call.
Each method has flaws. The only solution I have come up with is a device
that senses distance off the ground. The gear would not be allowed to come
up unless you were "so far" off the ground.. and the gear would come down...
if you were "X" amount of feet off the ground. All distances set by the
operator, and over-ride switches included. I can't find anything contrary
about that method... but it requires something expensive, and that is a
device to accurately measure the distance above a grass, gravel, paved, or
ever water... runway.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
throttle movements.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the throttle.
> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
Any
> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
military
> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>
> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be opening
> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>
> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> position to actuate a warning horn.
>
> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the distance
> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would give
> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
> Doug:
> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> discount program).
> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> throttle position.
> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
> up comes the gear.
>
> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
> Open Fire.
>
> ---------------------------
> Thomas Johnson
> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> Tel: 602-628-2701
> Fax: 623-321-5843
> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
>
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
Possibly that is correct... it makes sense... but this is after the engine
is fully warmed up and happens even in the middle of summer. My fault... I
should have mentioned that fact. At low power settings... summer or
winter.. the oil temp goes UP. This happened on the very first test flight
after replacing the existing valve with this one. It tends to make me think
that the valve is closing somehow and bypassing the oil cooler at low engine
power settings. But.. I don't know. My real worry is that the oil cooler
will totally clog with "what ever" some day and I will not have a by-pass
valve ... resulting in either a blown oil cooler, or no oil pressure. On
the other side of that coin is an engine that is always run with the oil
temp exactly where it is supposed to be. For me, that is a tough choice.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Probably need the RPM for the oil pressure to be high enough to
overcome the restiction of the valve.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
wrote:
> The last time I took my oil cooler out, I put it back into it's original
> configuration. I.E., I installed the oil thermostat. This replaces the
oil
> bypass valve. A lot of people on this list have bad things to say about
> that, and I am not going to argue with them. However, this thermostat is
> still standard issue on this same oil cooler when it is used in
helicopters,
> and it was standard issue on the very first YAK's using the M-14.
>
> I have run it now for 2 years, and my feedback is this:
>
> 1. Engine oil temp warms up immediately (well, no kidding the oil cooler
is
> being bypassed).
> 2. As the oil is coming up to temp., a fair amount of that heat is put
into
> the oil cooler itself causing any residual oil in the oil cooler to warm
up
> too. The thermostat valve does not open "all at once", but instead SLOWLY
> opens. You can watch it happen by hawking the oil temp gage.
> 3. Flying with outside air temps below 20 degrees results in oil temps
that
> are well into the green, even with cylinder head temps extremely low.
> 4. No problems with oil pressure. I also pre-heat the oil with a set of
> EZ-HEAT pads.
> 5. In anything other than HOT HOT weather, I never have to bother with
the
> Oil Cooler door.
>
> Two years now, and it is still working perfectly.
>
> One downside... and I am not sure why this is but..... when I pull the rpm
> back to 60% and the throttle back with it.... as in, "I slow way way
down",
> the oil temp. goes UP. Hmmm. Not into the red, or even the yellow, but
> high green anyway. Regardless, it does go UP. Bringing the engine to 80%
> cures this, and it goes back down to mid green. Not really a "problem"...
> but interesting never-the-less.
>
> I am not advocating that everyone do this. However it does seem to work
for
> me.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Payne [mailto:cpayne@joimail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:53 AM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
>
>
> As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving Tampa
> temps into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue I
> had 10 years ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day, with
> mid-day surface temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
>
> Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that my
> Oil Pressure was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop RPM
> (Huosai). Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I
happened
> to be over an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I
> noticed that oil pressure was back up. What??
>
> Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and
low
> air temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil
> bypass valve in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing down
in
> the pattern helped raise temps and all was well again.
>
> Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet and
> Outlet temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following
that
> incident, I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the
> cooler and bypass valve.
>
>
> Craig Payne
> cpayne@joimail.com
>
>
Message 21
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|
Good question. Tom mentioned using an electrically operated valve... but
you would have to be darn careful to get exactly the right one!
To wit: You would want one that is spring loaded OPEN and only electrically
closed, so that you could always operate the gear in case of an electrical
failure. Ideally, the emergency air system should not go through this
valve.
Next, you would have to locate this valve very close to the actuator itself,
to prevent the gear from moving due to residual line pressure. Again, the
proper valve might be able to vent the line pressure when it is closed
electrically removing that requirement.
It actually is pretty "do-able". Parts shouldn't be more than a few
hundred tops.
To my way of thinking, it is much more likely to forget to put the gear DOWN
when landing, rather than to manage to raise the gear on the ground during
taxi. That said, the emphasis should probably be on a system that protects
against that versus accidental on the ground raisings.
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@cablerocket.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full extension
of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
will happen unless the gear is selected up.
The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
shut-off valve??????????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
>
> Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> throttle movements.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
>> throttle.
>> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
>> Any
>> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
>> military
>> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>>
>> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
>> opening
>> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>>
>> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
>> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
>> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
>> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
>> position to actuate a warning horn.
>>
>> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
>> distance
>> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
>> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
>> give
>> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
>> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
>> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>>
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>>
>> Doug:
>> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
>> discount program).
>> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>>
>> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>>
>> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
>> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>> throttle position.
>> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
>> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
>> handle
>> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
>> handle,
>> up comes the gear.
>>
>> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
>> that
>> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>>
>> Open Fire.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> Thomas Johnson
>> Airpower Insurance, LLC
>> 36 West Ocotillo Road
>> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>> Tel: 602-628-2701
>> Fax: 623-321-5843
>> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Support Your Lists This Month --
>> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
>> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
>> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>>
>>
>> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats precisely the issue, many Bonanza owners have pulled their gear
handle thinking it was the flaps while taxi'ing (very common in
Bonanza's since Beech decided to swap the positioning of the levers
from one year to the next.), then hit a bump, and viola' gear up.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full extension
> of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
> bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
> will happen unless the gear is selected up.
> The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
> failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
> Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
> shut-off valve??????????
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> > aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> > switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> > retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> > do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> > retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
> >
> > Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> > throttle movements.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
> >> throttle.
> >> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
> >> Any
> >> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
> >> military
> >> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
> >>
> >> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
> >> opening
> >> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
> >>
> >> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
> >> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
> >> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
> >> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> >> position to actuate a warning horn.
> >>
> >> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
> >> distance
> >> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
> >> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
> >> give
> >> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
> >> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
> >>
> >> Mark Bitterlich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> >> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
> >>
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Doug:
> >> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> >> discount program).
> >> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> >> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
> >>
> >> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> >> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> >> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
> >>
> >> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> >> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> >> throttle position.
> >> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> >> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
> >> handle
> >> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> >> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
> >> handle,
> >> up comes the gear.
> >>
> >> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
> >> that
> >> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
> >>
> >> Open Fire.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------
> >> Thomas Johnson
> >> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> >> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> >> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> >> Tel: 602-628-2701
> >> Fax: 623-321-5843
> >> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Support Your Lists This Month --
> >> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
> >> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> >> www.homebuilthelp.com!
> >>
> >>
> >> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Look at your other guages, may be an electrical issue, with the
generator not putting out enough voltage.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
>
>
> Possibly that is correct... it makes sense... but this is after the engine
> is fully warmed up and happens even in the middle of summer. My fault... I
> should have mentioned that fact. At low power settings... summer or
> winter.. the oil temp goes UP. This happened on the very first test flight
> after replacing the existing valve with this one. It tends to make me think
> that the valve is closing somehow and bypassing the oil cooler at low engine
> power settings. But.. I don't know. My real worry is that the oil cooler
> will totally clog with "what ever" some day and I will not have a by-pass
> valve ... resulting in either a blown oil cooler, or no oil pressure. On
> the other side of that coin is an engine that is always run with the oil
> temp exactly where it is supposed to be. For me, that is a tough choice.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Probably need the RPM for the oil pressure to be high enough to
> overcome the restiction of the valve.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
> > The last time I took my oil cooler out, I put it back into it's original
> > configuration. I.E., I installed the oil thermostat. This replaces the
> oil
> > bypass valve. A lot of people on this list have bad things to say about
> > that, and I am not going to argue with them. However, this thermostat is
> > still standard issue on this same oil cooler when it is used in
> helicopters,
> > and it was standard issue on the very first YAK's using the M-14.
> >
> > I have run it now for 2 years, and my feedback is this:
> >
> > 1. Engine oil temp warms up immediately (well, no kidding the oil cooler
> is
> > being bypassed).
> > 2. As the oil is coming up to temp., a fair amount of that heat is put
> into
> > the oil cooler itself causing any residual oil in the oil cooler to warm
> up
> > too. The thermostat valve does not open "all at once", but instead SLOWLY
> > opens. You can watch it happen by hawking the oil temp gage.
> > 3. Flying with outside air temps below 20 degrees results in oil temps
> that
> > are well into the green, even with cylinder head temps extremely low.
> > 4. No problems with oil pressure. I also pre-heat the oil with a set of
> > EZ-HEAT pads.
> > 5. In anything other than HOT HOT weather, I never have to bother with
> the
> > Oil Cooler door.
> >
> > Two years now, and it is still working perfectly.
> >
> > One downside... and I am not sure why this is but..... when I pull the rpm
> > back to 60% and the throttle back with it.... as in, "I slow way way
> down",
> > the oil temp. goes UP. Hmmm. Not into the red, or even the yellow, but
> > high green anyway. Regardless, it does go UP. Bringing the engine to 80%
> > cures this, and it goes back down to mid green. Not really a "problem"...
> > but interesting never-the-less.
> >
> > I am not advocating that everyone do this. However it does seem to work
> for
> > me.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig Payne [mailto:cpayne@joimail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:53 AM
> > To: yak-list
> > Subject: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
> >
> >
> >
> > As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving Tampa
> > temps into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue I
> > had 10 years ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day, with
> > mid-day surface temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
> >
> > Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that my
> > Oil Pressure was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop RPM
> > (Huosai). Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I
> happened
> > to be over an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I
> > noticed that oil pressure was back up. What??
> >
> > Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and
> low
> > air temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil
> > bypass valve in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing down
> in
> > the pattern helped raise temps and all was well again.
> >
> > Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet and
> > Outlet temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following
> that
> > incident, I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the
> > cooler and bypass valve.
> >
> >
> > Craig Payne
> > cpayne@joimail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Ernie,
It's most likely wiring, but if not I have both the controller in the panel
and the new bulbs. No there is no ballast.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Yak-List: Cockpit Lights
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
My cockpit lights arent coming onin my CJ. Before I go on a trouble
shooting hunt, any obvious things I should look for? Neither
flourecent bulb is turning on, circuit breaker is on, allowing plenty
of time for wam up. Where is the ballast for these lights? I've
jiggled and turned the iris on the lamps.
Thanks
Ernie
Message 25
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
Now that's a thought....
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Look at your other guages, may be an electrical issue, with the
generator not putting out enough voltage.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Possibly that is correct... it makes sense... but this is after the engine
> is fully warmed up and happens even in the middle of summer. My fault...
I
> should have mentioned that fact. At low power settings... summer or
> winter.. the oil temp goes UP. This happened on the very first test
flight
> after replacing the existing valve with this one. It tends to make me
think
> that the valve is closing somehow and bypassing the oil cooler at low
engine
> power settings. But.. I don't know. My real worry is that the oil cooler
> will totally clog with "what ever" some day and I will not have a by-pass
> valve ... resulting in either a blown oil cooler, or no oil pressure. On
> the other side of that coin is an engine that is always run with the oil
> temp exactly where it is supposed to be. For me, that is a tough choice.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Probably need the RPM for the oil pressure to be high enough to
> overcome the restiction of the valve.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
> > The last time I took my oil cooler out, I put it back into it's original
> > configuration. I.E., I installed the oil thermostat. This replaces the
> oil
> > bypass valve. A lot of people on this list have bad things to say about
> > that, and I am not going to argue with them. However, this thermostat
is
> > still standard issue on this same oil cooler when it is used in
> helicopters,
> > and it was standard issue on the very first YAK's using the M-14.
> >
> > I have run it now for 2 years, and my feedback is this:
> >
> > 1. Engine oil temp warms up immediately (well, no kidding the oil
cooler
> is
> > being bypassed).
> > 2. As the oil is coming up to temp., a fair amount of that heat is put
> into
> > the oil cooler itself causing any residual oil in the oil cooler to warm
> up
> > too. The thermostat valve does not open "all at once", but instead
SLOWLY
> > opens. You can watch it happen by hawking the oil temp gage.
> > 3. Flying with outside air temps below 20 degrees results in oil temps
> that
> > are well into the green, even with cylinder head temps extremely low.
> > 4. No problems with oil pressure. I also pre-heat the oil with a set
of
> > EZ-HEAT pads.
> > 5. In anything other than HOT HOT weather, I never have to bother with
> the
> > Oil Cooler door.
> >
> > Two years now, and it is still working perfectly.
> >
> > One downside... and I am not sure why this is but..... when I pull the
rpm
> > back to 60% and the throttle back with it.... as in, "I slow way way
> down",
> > the oil temp. goes UP. Hmmm. Not into the red, or even the yellow,
but
> > high green anyway. Regardless, it does go UP. Bringing the engine to
80%
> > cures this, and it goes back down to mid green. Not really a
"problem"...
> > but interesting never-the-less.
> >
> > I am not advocating that everyone do this. However it does seem to work
> for
> > me.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig Payne [mailto:cpayne@joimail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:53 AM
> > To: yak-list
> > Subject: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
> >
> >
> >
> > As a touch of Fall drives deep into old Dixie this morning, driving
Tampa
> > temps into the Freezing Fifties, I am reminded of an oil pressure issue
I
> > had 10 years ago with my CJ. It was a fine mid-western Winter's day,
with
> > mid-day surface temps just below freezing. CAVU and light winds.
> >
> > Settling into cruise for several minutes after climbout I noticed that
my
> > Oil Pressure was Zero. The engine was still running, no change in prop
RPM
> > (Huosai). Oil Temp out was low and Inlet temp was very low. Since I
> happened
> > to be over an airport at the time, I made a normal landing. On rollout I
> > noticed that oil pressure was back up. What??
> >
> > Diagnosis was that I had failed to close my shutters after climbout and
> low
> > air temps caused the oil to congeal in the oil cooler. There is an oil
> > bypass valve in the cooler but it too must have been jammed. Slowing
down
> in
> > the pattern helped raise temps and all was well again.
> >
> > Lesson learned: watch them gauges and maintain temps. Check Both Inlet
and
> > Outlet temps routinely. This I still do today. In the Spring following
> that
> > incident, I pulled the oil cooler and flushed *lots* of gunk out of the
> > cooler and bypass valve.
> >
> >
> > Craig Payne
> > cpayne@joimail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> Possibly that is correct... it makes sense... but this is after the
> engine is fully warmed up and happens even in the middle of summer. My
> fault... I should have mentioned that fact. At low power settings...
> summer or winter.. the oil temp goes UP.
I bet you find that the airflow at the mouth of the oil cooler air inlet goes
turbulent and flow reduces. I suspect our resident aerodynamicist, Craig,
could address it better than I.
So, don't fly around on a hot day with low RPM if you are worried. Since it
stays in the green you are getting enough oil and airflow.
> This happened on the very
> first test flight after replacing the existing valve with this one. It
> tends to make me think that the valve is closing somehow and bypassing
> the oil cooler at low engine power settings. But.. I don't know. My
> real worry is that the oil cooler will totally clog with "what ever"
> some day and I will not have a by-pass valve
Change oil regularly and then flush your cooler regularly, like every couple
of years. It is amazing what preventative maintenance can prevent.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 27
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
At the risk of disturbing the present train of thought about the gear
switch, I would like to let all the listers know that in reaction to the
posts last month about the need for a flexible hose from the compressor to
the snot bottle I have come up with a fix. The high pressure flex hoses are
now ready to ship. When you order please tell me what engine you have as
this will determine the proper length of hose you will need. Price is
$45.00 each. If you want a custom length that's no problem, price is the
same.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats precisely the issue, many Bonanza owners have pulled their gear
handle thinking it was the flaps while taxi'ing (very common in
Bonanza's since Beech decided to swap the positioning of the levers
from one year to the next.), then hit a bump, and viola' gear up.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full
extension
> of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
> bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
> will happen unless the gear is selected up.
> The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
> failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
> Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
> shut-off valve??????????
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> > aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> > switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> > retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> > do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> > retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
> >
> > Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> > throttle movements.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
> >> throttle.
> >> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
> >> Any
> >> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
> >> military
> >> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
> >>
> >> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
> >> opening
> >> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
> >>
> >> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
> >> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at
low
> >> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn.
The
> >> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> >> position to actuate a warning horn.
> >>
> >> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
> >> distance
> >> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
> >> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
> >> give
> >> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
> >> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
> >>
> >> Mark Bitterlich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> >> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
> >>
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Doug:
> >> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> >> discount program).
> >> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> >> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
> >>
> >> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> >> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> >> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
> >>
> >> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the
gear.
> >> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> >> throttle position.
> >> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> >> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
> >> handle
> >> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> >> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
> >> handle,
> >> up comes the gear.
> >>
> >> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
> >> that
> >> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
> >>
> >> Open Fire.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------
> >> Thomas Johnson
> >> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> >> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> >> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> >> Tel: 602-628-2701
> >> Fax: 623-321-5843
> >> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Support Your Lists This Month --
> >> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided
Bookstore
> >> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> >> www.homebuilthelp.com!
> >>
> >>
> >> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Lights |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
It used to work, and then I tried it the other day, and nothing. Where
in the panel is the controller??
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Ernie,
> It's most likely wiring, but if not I have both the controller in the panel
> and the new bulbs. No there is no ballast.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 8:37 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Cockpit Lights
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> My cockpit lights arent coming onin my CJ. Before I go on a trouble
> shooting hunt, any obvious things I should look for? Neither
> flourecent bulb is turning on, circuit breaker is on, allowing plenty
> of time for wam up. Where is the ballast for these lights? I've
> jiggled and turned the iris on the lamps.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ernie
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
Brian,
Same oil cooler. Same day. Same airplane. I replaced the oil coolers
by-pass valve with the thermostat valve.
As soon as I flew slow... with power way back, oil temp went UP. Not sky
high.. just up. Top of the green. Put power back on.... temp drops down to
first third of green.
Only happened after I changed the valve. Not worried about it... just can't
figure out why.
Mark
p.s. Pulled oil cooler and flushed it. No change.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brian-yak@lloyd.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> Possibly that is correct... it makes sense... but this is after the
> engine is fully warmed up and happens even in the middle of summer. My
> fault... I should have mentioned that fact. At low power settings...
> summer or winter.. the oil temp goes UP.
I bet you find that the airflow at the mouth of the oil cooler air inlet
goes
turbulent and flow reduces. I suspect our resident aerodynamicist, Craig,
could address it better than I.
So, don't fly around on a hot day with low RPM if you are worried. Since it
stays in the green you are getting enough oil and airflow.
> This happened on the very
> first test flight after replacing the existing valve with this one. It
> tends to make me think that the valve is closing somehow and bypassing
> the oil cooler at low engine power settings. But.. I don't know. My
> real worry is that the oil cooler will totally clog with "what ever"
> some day and I will not have a by-pass valve
Change oil regularly and then flush your cooler regularly, like every couple
of years. It is amazing what preventative maintenance can prevent.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak@lloyd.com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 30
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|
Just to let readers know..... I paid over twice that for the one I
purchased. Doug is giving it away IMHO.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sapp [mailto:rvfltd@televar.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Flex line
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
At the risk of disturbing the present train of thought about the gear
switch, I would like to let all the listers know that in reaction to the
posts last month about the need for a flexible hose from the compressor to
the snot bottle I have come up with a fix. The high pressure flex hoses are
now ready to ship. When you order please tell me what engine you have as
this will determine the proper length of hose you will need. Price is
$45.00 each. If you want a custom length that's no problem, price is the
same.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats precisely the issue, many Bonanza owners have pulled their gear
handle thinking it was the flaps while taxi'ing (very common in
Bonanza's since Beech decided to swap the positioning of the levers
from one year to the next.), then hit a bump, and viola' gear up.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full
extension
> of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
> bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
> will happen unless the gear is selected up.
> The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
> failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
> Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
> shut-off valve??????????
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> > aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> > switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> > retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> > do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> > retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
> >
> > Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> > throttle movements.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
> >> throttle.
> >> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
> >> Any
> >> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
> >> military
> >> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
> >>
> >> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
> >> opening
> >> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
> >>
> >> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
> >> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at
low
> >> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn.
The
> >> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> >> position to actuate a warning horn.
> >>
> >> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
> >> distance
> >> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
> >> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
> >> give
> >> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
> >> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
> >>
> >> Mark Bitterlich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> >> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
> >>
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Doug:
> >> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> >> discount program).
> >> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> >> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
> >>
> >> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> >> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> >> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
> >>
> >> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the
gear.
> >> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> >> throttle position.
> >> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> >> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
> >> handle
> >> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> >> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
> >> handle,
> >> up comes the gear.
> >>
> >> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
> >> that
> >> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
> >>
> >> Open Fire.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------
> >> Thomas Johnson
> >> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> >> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> >> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> >> Tel: 602-628-2701
> >> Fax: 623-321-5843
> >> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Support Your Lists This Month --
> >> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided
Bookstore
> >> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> >> www.homebuilthelp.com!
> >>
> >>
> >> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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|
RE: Yak-List: Flex lineMark and all,
Thanks for the plug. About the price, I priced this just like I price all
my parts, cost, + shipping+ import+ profit margin = your cost, if I buy
cheap you buy cheap. Seems fair to me.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:21 PM
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flex line
Just to let readers know..... I paid over twice that for the one I
purchased. Doug is giving it away IMHO.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sapp [mailto:rvfltd@televar.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:54 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Flex line
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
At the risk of disturbing the present train of thought about the gear
switch, I would like to let all the listers know that in reaction to the
posts last month about the need for a flexible hose from the compressor to
the snot bottle I have come up with a fix. The high pressure flex hoses
are
now ready to ship. When you order please tell me what engine you have as
this will determine the proper length of hose you will need. Price is
$45.00 each. If you want a custom length that's no problem, price is the
same.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:15 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats precisely the issue, many Bonanza owners have pulled their gear
handle thinking it was the flaps while taxi'ing (very common in
Bonanza's since Beech decided to swap the positioning of the levers
from one year to the next.), then hit a bump, and viola' gear up.
Ernie
On 11/18/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon"
<wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full
extension
> of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
> bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
> will happen unless the gear is selected up.
> The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of
a
> failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
> Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
> shut-off valve??????????
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> > aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> > switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> > retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> > do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> > retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
> >
> > Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> > throttle movements.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
> >> throttle.
> >> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into
that.
> >> Any
> >> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
> >> military
> >> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
> >>
> >> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
> >> opening
> >> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
> >>
> >> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up
landing.
> >> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at
low
> >> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn.
The
> >> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
> >> position to actuate a warning horn.
> >>
> >> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
> >> distance
> >> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether
a
> >> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
> >> give
> >> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a
simple
> >> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
> >>
> >> Mark Bitterlich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
> >> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
> >>
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Doug:
> >> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the
existing
> >> discount program).
> >> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> >> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
> >>
> >> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the
ground.
> >> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> >> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
> >>
> >> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the
gear.
> >> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> >> throttle position.
> >> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the
actuators.
> >> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
> >> handle
> >> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> >> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
> >> handle,
> >> up comes the gear.
> >>
> >> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
> >> that
> >> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
> >>
> >> Open Fire.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------
> >> Thomas Johnson
> >> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> >> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> >> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> >> Tel: 602-628-2701
> >> Fax: 623-321-5843
> >> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Support Your Lists This Month --
> >> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided
Bookstore
> >> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
> >> www.homebuilthelp.com!
> >>
> >>
> >> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Support Your Lists This Month --
Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
www.homebuilthelp.com!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution support!
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Running again:-) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Buzzard Aviation <martin@buzzardaviation.flyer.co.uk>
Hi all,
You'll be pleased to hear that my 18T is running again today after a
visit from Genna who brought his Moscow trained expertise to bear. We
still don't know what the problem was for sure having hit the mags
plugs and everything electrical at the same time but prime suspect
was duff/weak connection to the booster coil. She runs and starts
easily now anyway.
But most of all I want to say how great it is to work with someone
who can shout over that he needs a 17 and 27mm wrench and is right
every time!!! Thanks Genna and thanks to all who offered advice.
Happy Landings
____|____
\O/
o'o Martin Robinson
Auster AOP 9 G-BKVK (WZ662)
Yak 18T HA-YAV
--
Message 33
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|
RE: Yak-List: Gear ups".....emphasis should probably be on a system that protects
against that versus accidental on the ground raisings."
KISS method; spring load the slide lock. The gear handle can not be raised above
the neutral position with the slide lock in place. Then if one forgets to
move the slide lock when putting the gear down AND you have the audible GEAR
DOWN alarm and red light on the panel, the alarm will sound and the light will
illuminate in front of your face. Once again, I am an advocate of using the
KISS principle.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gear ups
Good question. Tom mentioned using an electrically operated valve... but you
would have to be darn careful to get exactly the right one!
To wit: You would want one that is spring loaded OPEN and only electrically
closed, so that you could always operate the gear in case of an electrical failure.
Ideally, the emergency air system should not go through this valve.
Next, you would have to locate this valve very close to the actuator itself,
to prevent the gear from moving due to residual line pressure. Again, the proper
valve might be able to vent the line pressure when it is closed electrically
removing that requirement.
It actually is pretty "do-able". Parts shouldn't be more than a few hundred
tops.
To my way of thinking, it is much more likely to forget to put the gear DOWN
when landing, rather than to manage to raise the gear on the ground during taxi.
That said, the emphasis should probably be on a system that protects against
that versus accidental on the ground raisings.
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@cablerocket.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:27 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full extension
of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
will happen unless the gear is selected up.
The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
shut-off valve??????????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
>
> Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> throttle movements.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
>> throttle.
>> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
>> Any
>> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
>> military
>> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>>
>> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
>> opening
>> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>>
>> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
>> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
>> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
>> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
>> position to actuate a warning horn.
>>
>> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
>> distance
>> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
>> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
>> give
>> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
>> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
>> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>>
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>>
>> Doug:
>> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
>> discount program).
>> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>>
>> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>>
>> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
>> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>> throttle position.
>> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
>> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
>> handle
>> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
>> handle,
>> up comes the gear.
>>
>> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
>> that
>> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>>
>> Open Fire.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> Thomas Johnson
>> Airpower Insurance, LLC
>> 36 West Ocotillo Road
>> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>> Tel: 602-628-2701
>> Fax: 623-321-5843
>> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 34
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Tom,
What's the definition of "approved" and who does the "approving"? Does
"approve" = expensive? IMHO if one were to incorporate the "small, electric
air valve" as described, the system just became far more complicated than it
ever should be and with potentially another failure point. Audible and
visual alarms when the flaps come down and the gear is not down covers
probably 98% of all potential screw ups. To gain the additional 2% is cost
prohibitive.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>
> Doug:
> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
> discount program).
> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>
> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>
> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
> throttle position.
> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the handle
> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the handle,
> up comes the gear.
>
> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent that
> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>
> Open Fire.
>
> ---------------------------
> Thomas Johnson
> Airpower Insurance, LLC
> 36 West Ocotillo Road
> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
> Tel: 602-628-2701
> Fax: 623-321-5843
> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>
>
>
Message 35
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Just remembered -- A squat switch will not work on the CJ (or, presumably,
the Yak) since the oleo's are at full extension while parked. Oh well!
The squat switch is both a weight on wheels AND a weight off wheels switch.
The primary function is to prevent ground retraction. On some aircraft it is
a multi-function switch which may, in addition to de-energizing gear
retract, energize or de-energize many other systems. It has absolutely
nothing to do with a gear up warning system.
The old military standard gear up warning system that I will install in the
CJ includes a push button or spring return toggle switch that instantly
opens the horn circuit and kills the horn. The horn is activated with the
gear up and the throttle closed to a pre-set manifold pressure position.
With the kill switch circuit energized to kill the horn opening the throttle
above the pre-set position will de-energize that circuit and re-energize the
horn circuit to the throttle switch. The kill switch could be on the stick
grip so you would hear the horn for a fraction of a second only when closing
the throttle.
The system DOES NOT extend the gear. It simply reminds you that it is up.
No system is perfect or fool proof.
The throttle position system could fail you on a power up, low, drag in
approach where the throttle is not closed to the pre-set position until too
late.
The flap position system could fail you in a nasty cross wind or gust
situation where you decided on a no flap landing.
The GPW system could fail you at the nice mountainside strip where, on
approach until a few seconds before touchdown, your altitude above ground is
500 or 1000 ft. We have one of these we visit every year and there are many
more in all mountainous areas.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Thats precisely the issue, many Bonanza owners have pulled their gear
> handle thinking it was the flaps while taxi'ing (very common in
> Bonanza's since Beech decided to swap the positioning of the levers
> from one year to the next.), then hit a bump, and viola' gear up.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Walter Lannon <wlannon@cablerocket.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>>
>> A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full
>> extension
>> of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
>> bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
>> will happen unless the gear is selected up.
>> The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
>> failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
>> Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
>> shut-off valve??????????
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
>> > aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
>> > switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
>> > retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
>> > do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
>> > retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
>> >
>> > Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
>> > throttle movements.
>> >
>> > Ernie
>> >
>> > On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tom,
>> >>
>> >> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
>> >> throttle.
>> >> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into
>> >> that.
>> >> Any
>> >> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
>> >> military
>> >> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>> >>
>> >> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
>> >> opening
>> >> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>> >>
>> >> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
>> >> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at
>> >> low
>> >> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn.
>> >> The
>> >> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
>> >> position to actuate a warning horn.
>> >>
>> >> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
>> >> distance
>> >> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether
>> >> a
>> >> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
>> >> give
>> >> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a
>> >> simple
>> >> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>> >>
>> >> Mark Bitterlich
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
>> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
>> >> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
>> >> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>> >>
>> >> Doug:
>> >> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the
>> >> existing
>> >> discount program).
>> >> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>> >> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>> >>
>> >> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>> >> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>> >> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>> >>
>> >> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the
>> >> gear.
>> >> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>> >> throttle position.
>> >> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the
>> >> actuators.
>> >> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
>> >> handle
>> >> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>> >> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
>> >> handle,
>> >> up comes the gear.
>> >>
>> >> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
>> >> that
>> >> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>> >>
>> >> Open Fire.
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------
>> >> Thomas Johnson
>> >> Airpower Insurance, LLC
>> >> 36 West Ocotillo Road
>> >> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>> >> Tel: 602-628-2701
>> >> Fax: 623-321-5843
>> >> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Support Your Lists This Month --
>> >> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided
>> >> Bookstore
>> >> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
>> >> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Getting off the List |
Because I've gone to the dark side men and ladies - we have a lodge in Alaska
that needed a 206 - so my dreams of speaking chinese while inverted for now
are not going to happen. That is unless some of you wish to fly in between
the 3rd of June and the 10th of September.
We are located 75 miles south of Fairbanks and 40 miles East of the town of
Healy - in the wood river drainage - if you are looking at a sectional - it
would be the Anchorage sectional - all the way to the top you'll find the wood
river - and the most southerly of the two U fields you see on the sectional is
us.
You can find us under www.denaliwildernesslodge.com - there's still a for
sale sign up on the web site for a few days - but its all ours - horses and
hiking - and I'd love to hear the roar of some radials this summer - so now - i
guess i need to stay on the list - My biggest problem has been AOL rejecting some
of my regular mail because they say I'm reaching some limit - I think my
sites just turned on the real problem here AOL - and not the men and women of this
fine and informative site - And - if we fill the lodges rooms this summer
maybe Lucy will let me pick up a Yak for next summer.
Sean
Message 37
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Dennis
Spring loading the slide lock sounds like the best solution to "on the
ground retracts" that I've heard yet. I'm going to implement it on my 52.
Still leaves the problem of forgetting to lower the gear though. But then
that can be taken care of procedurally..GUMPS checks for example.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
".....emphasis should probably be on a system that protects against that
versus accidental on the ground raisings."
KISS method; spring load the slide lock. The gear handle can not be raised
above the neutral position with the slide lock in place. Then if one
forgets to move the slide lock when putting the gear down AND you have the
audible GEAR DOWN alarm and red light on the panel, the alarm will sound and
the light will illuminate in front of your face. Once again, I am an
advocate of using the KISS principle.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gear ups
Good question. Tom mentioned using an electrically operated valve... but
you would have to be darn careful to get exactly the right one!
To wit: You would want one that is spring loaded OPEN and only electrically
closed, so that you could always operate the gear in case of an electrical
failure. Ideally, the emergency air system should not go through this
valve.
Next, you would have to locate this valve very close to the actuator itself,
to prevent the gear from moving due to residual line pressure. Again, the
proper valve might be able to vent the line pressure when it is closed
electrically removing that requirement.
It actually is pretty "do-able". Parts shouldn't be more than a few
hundred tops.
To my way of thinking, it is much more likely to forget to put the gear DOWN
when landing, rather than to manage to raise the gear on the ground during
taxi. That said, the emphasis should probably be on a system that protects
against that versus accidental on the ground raisings.
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@cablerocket.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
A squat switch should be set up to close the circuit only at full extension
of the oleo. Even if you were to get that much oleo displacement from a
bounce, rough ground, etc. and the switch was momentarily closed nothing
will happen unless the gear is selected up.
The squat switch would also prevent retraction in the unlikely event of a
failure that left the oleo only partially extended.
Now, how does that work with an air system ------- switch operates a
shut-off valve??????????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear ups
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> What you describe is kind of a squat switch, which is fine if the
> aircraft is stationary, but on a bumpy taxiway, such as grass, the
> switch could be momentarily disengaged long enough to allow a gear
> retraction. This is a common problem with Bonanza's and is why I dont
> do touch and goes, because it is too easy to grab the wrong switch and
> retract gear instead of flaps on the roll out.
>
> Good formation technique would require little if any full closed
> throttle movements.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 11/18/05, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Some good ideas, but I would not tie the electric valve into the
>> throttle.
>> Instead I would install a weight on wheels switch and tie it into that.
>> Any
>> weight on the gear, and the gear will not retract. This is how the
>> military
>> does it, and they have more experience than most anyone else.
>>
>> In addition, tying it in with the throttle means it is going to be
>> opening
>> and closing in flight, which I see as a "not so good" thing.
>>
>> The real issue comes into play when trying to avoid a gear up landing.
>> Typically that is when systems are tied into the throttle so that at low
>> power settings with the gear up, you get some kind of warning horn. The
>> military usually accomplishes this by using angle of attack and gear
>> position to actuate a warning horn.
>>
>> Obviously... at least to me.... the best system would measure the
>> distance
>> from the ground AND the angle of attack. I've often wondered whether a
>> simple and cheap motion detector system could be installed that would
>> give
>> enough range to accomplish this. Other methods exist, such as a simple
>> radar system, or laser, etc. The key word is cheap.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Johnson [mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net]
>> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:01 AM
>> To: Yak-List@Matronics. Com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear ups
>>
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
>>
>> Doug:
>> Discount for Gear Warning System: Yes (It can be added to the existing
>> discount program).
>> But we should be consistent about the system with the underwriter.
>> It should be an approved system with some documentation.
>>
>> Would be nice if the system would prevent gear pull-ups on the ground.
>> I recently installed a Swagelok Stainless Steel main air valve.
>> They come in every configuration, both mechanical and electric.
>>
>> SO, imagine a small electric air valve on the "UP" air line for the gear.
>> This valve only gets its little electric signal to OPEN at very high
>> throttle position.
>> The rest of the time it is closed and Up air cant get to the actuators.
>> So you are on the ground at idle or even run-up power and raise the
>> handle
>> and Up-Air cant get to the gear.
>> On takeoff at high throttle position, valve is open, you raise the
>> handle,
>> up comes the gear.
>>
>> Returning to land, say throttle at low position, the valve has a vent
>> that
>> allows Up air Out so Down air came work.
>>
>> Open Fire.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> Thomas Johnson
>> Airpower Insurance, LLC
>> 36 West Ocotillo Road
>> Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
>> Tel: 602-628-2701
>> Fax: 623-321-5843
>> E: tomjohnson@cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Support Your Lists This Month --
>> Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
>> www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
>> www.homebuilthelp.com!
>>
>>
>> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Support Your Lists This Month --
Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts provided Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com, and
www.homebuilthelp.com! http://www.matronics.com/contribution support!
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Oil Pressure and Cold Weather |
Brian wrote:
>
>I bet you find that the airflow at the mouth of the oil cooler air inlet goes
>turbulent and flow reduces. I suspect our resident aerodynamicist, Craig,
>could address it better than I.
>
Hmmm, only pressure sensors in the duct could answer that quatify the answer to
that question. Remember we are talking a Yak 50 here. Actually on a CJ, higher
Alpha results in Improved flow over the wing from under the nose. On an ancedodal
note, the oil cooler inlet is on the right side of a CJ for good reason;
that backwards turning fan up front slings more breeze to tthe right side wing
root.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
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