Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - 2005 List of Contributors - Thank You... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Decals (Michael Bolton)
3. 08:20 AM - (Robert Schwartz)
4. 08:39 AM - Re: (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 09:04 AM - Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Jeff Linebaugh)
6. 09:36 AM - ICAS (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 09:50 AM - Re: ICAS (Ernest Martinez)
8. 10:01 AM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 11:32 AM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Roger Doc Kemp)
10. 12:09 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Doug Sapp)
11. 12:16 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 12:23 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 12:28 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Ernest Martinez)
14. 12:48 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (cjpilot710@aol.com)
15. 12:52 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 01:14 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Roger Doc Kemp)
17. 01:21 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Roger Doc Kemp)
18. 01:25 PM - Re: EP of the Week (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
19. 02:09 PM - Re: hoses (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
20. 02:36 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Brian Lloyd)
21. 02:49 PM - Aluminum control surfaces (Frank Haertlein)
22. 03:09 PM - In memorial (Jerome van der Schaar)
23. 03:11 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Brian Lloyd)
24. 04:12 PM - FW: In memorial (Doug Sapp)
25. 04:35 PM - Re: In memorial (Craig Payne)
26. 04:43 PM - Re: In memorial (Roger Kemp)
27. 05:00 PM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2005 List of Contributors - Thank You... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Let me say *thank you* to everyone that made a Contribution in
support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all the
great comments people had regarding what the Lists mean to them and
how much they look forward to reading the new posts each day. As I
have said many times before, running these Lists and creating the
many new features is truly a labor of love. This is why your
comments of support and appreciation have particular meaning for
me. Your generosity during this time of List support only
underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund
Raiser please feel free to do so. There are still a number of the
various Free Gifts to be had as well. Once again, the URL for the
Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (
http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises (
http://www.kitlog.com ), and Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP (
http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) for their extremely generous support
during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of
merchandise. These are three great guys that support this industry
and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their
respective web sites. Thank you Andy, Paul, and Jon!! Your support
is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find the 2005 List of Contributors
current as of 12/4/05! Have a look at this list of names as these
are the people that make all of these List services possible! I
can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback
during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU!
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and
hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases,
gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------ 2005 List of Contributors ---------------------
Ackerman, John P
Ackland, Andrew
Ackworth, Robert
Adamson, Arden
Akerstrom, Ed
Alberti, David
Alexander, George
Allee, Joseph
Allen, Mark L
Alley, Brian
Allington, Wally
Allsop, Bryan
Alons, Kevin
Al, Rupp
Altenhein, Gary
Anderson, Edward
Anderson, John
Anderson, Ken
Andrews, Ronald
Anliker, Mark
Anthony, Bruce
Anton, Bill
Applefeld, Gerald
Archer, Matt
Ashcraft, Keith
Atkinson, Paul
Austin, Peter
Babb, Tony
Bahrns, Stan
Baker, Mike
Baker, Owen
Baker, Roger
Baker, Victor
Baleshta, Doug
Ballenger, James
Barba, Alberto
Barnes, Thomas
Barrie, Darwin
Barson, Ron
Barter, Tom
Basiliere, Rick
Bass, George
BatchelderJr, Ellery
Bates Jr, Marcus
Bean, Jim
Bean, Robert
Bearden, Jeff
Beauchamp, Norm
Bellach, Robin
Bell, Bruce B
Bell, Jack
Belvin, Thomas
Benjamin, Hal
Benson, Lonn
Benson, Lonnie
Berges, Duncan
Berg, Wayne
Bermudez, John
Berner, Walter
Bernier, Jim
Berry, Bert
Berry, Jim
Bertz, Gary
Berube, Bob
Betz, Judie
Bezzard, Richard
Bickham, John
Bidle, Jerry
Bieberdorf, Roger
Billingsley, Dan
Billington, Chuck
Bish, Dan
Black, Milton
Blackwell, Jimmie
Blackwell, Rodney
Blair, Sean
Blank, Stephen
Boeshaar, David
Boetto, Steve
Bohannon, Larry
Bollaert, Brian
Bonds, Kevin
Boothe, Gary
Booze, Greg
Bope, David
Bordelon, Bruce
Borger, Robert
Boucher, Michel
Boulet, Paul
Bourne, Larry
Bowen, Gordon
Bowen, James
Bowen, Larry
Bowman, Brice
Bowman, John
Boxill, Mike
Boyd, Bill
Boyer, James R
Boyle, Neville
Brame, Charles
Brandt, Leroy
Brasch, Glenn
Breckenridge, Bruce
Bressler, Wes
Bressler, Wesley
Brick, John
Brien, Tim
Briggs, Gary
Brogley, Michael
Brooks, John
Brooks, Kenyon
Brooks, Sterling
Broom, Richard
Brown, Allen
Brown, Bob
Brunke, Judy
Bryan, Mark
Buchanan, Guy
Buchmann, Keith
Buckthal, Robert
Buess, Alfred
Bullett, Charles
Bullock, Jack
Bumhoffer, Al
Burden, Ron
Burke, James
Burkhardt, Michael
Burnaby, John
Burnett, Ron
Burns, Mark
Burrill, Phil
Burrows, Alan
Burton, James
Busch, Rob
Butcher, James
Butcher, Ron
Butler, Francis
Butler, Sherman
Butterfield, John
Buyse, Lieven
Caldwell, Rick
Cannon, Michael
Cannon, Paul
Cann, Tony
Cantrell, Jim
Cantrell, Jimmy
Capen, Ralph
Capra, Sal
Cardell, Bill
Carillon Sr, Paul
Carpenter, Jeffrey
Carpenter, Kenneth
Carriere, James
Carroll, Randy
Carter, David
Carter, Howard
Carter, PaulQ
Carter, Preston
Cary, William
Casson, Perry
Challgren, Stanley
Chambers, Ken
Champion, Robert
Chandler, Rick
Chang, Ted
Chatham, Robert
Checkoway, Dan
Chelvanayagam, Indran
Chenoweth, William
Chevaillier, Mason
Circle, Roger
Clarke, Christopher
Clarke, Paddy
Clark, James
Clark, Michael
Clay, Dennis
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
Cliff, John
Clifford, Dewayne
Clyma, Frank
Coalwell, Timothy
Cochran, Mark
Cochran, Stewart
Coggins, Mickey
Cole, Gary
Cole, Gerry
Cole, Roger
Colucci, Tony
Combs, Doyle
Combs, Jim
Comfort, Gordon
Compton, Scott
Condrey, Bob
Connell, Joseph
Conrad, Gerald
Constant, Jeremy
Cook, Doug
Cook, Marc
Cooling, John
Cooper, James
Cooper, Marcus
Corbalis, Leo
Corder, Michael
Corner, Jim
Corriveau, Grant
Cottingham, Richard
Cottrell, Larry
Coursey, William
Courtney, James
Coussons, Herb
Cox, John
Cravener, Donald
Crawford, Corey
Creer, Michael
Cribb, William
Crockett, Jim
Crosby, Harry
Crosley, Rich
Cross, Brian
Crothers, Bill
Cruikshank, Bruce
Culver, Ronald
Curtis, William
Dalstrom, Douglas
Dalton, Bob
Daniell, William
Danielsen, HansJ%c3%b8rgen
Daves, Russell
Davidson, Jeff
Davies, Brian
Davis, Barry
Davis, Deems
Davis, Robert
Dawson, Clif
Dawson, Garth
Decker, Daniel
Decramer, Dick
Deford, David
De Jong, Jan
Delaney, Tom
Deloach, Reginald
DelPeso, Jose
Delsol, Mich%c3%a8le
Dennis, Chris
Dewees, Ron
Dewey, Debbie
Dial, Larry
Dickson, Robert
Dieh, Donald
Dietrich, Klaus
Disher, John
Dominy, Kenneth
Donato, John
Dondlinger, Leo
Doran, Thomas
Dorsey, Robert
Doud, Herbert
Dovey, Martin
Doyle, Mike
Draper, Mike
Dresden, Robert
Dufresne, Robert
Duke, Gordon
Dunne, John
Durakovich, David
East, David
Eckenroth, Paul
Edgerton, Wayne
Edwards, Ed
Edwards, Joe
Ehlers, Clyde D
Eli, Robert
Ellenberger, Christopher
Ellenberger, Mike
Elliott, Andrew
Ellis, Dale
Elrod, Michael
Engel, Jerry
Engh, Duncan
England, Charles
Erickson, Alan
Erickson, Gerald
Erickson, Ken
Ervin, Thomas
Evenson, Roger
Fackler, Ken
Fair, Deal
Falik, Donald
Farmer, Daniel
Faulkner, Thomas
F, Dwight
Featherston, Les
Feldman, Herb
Felker, Timothy
Fetterman, Lanny
Fillinger, Fred
Filucci, Michael
Finley, John
Fischer, Douglas
Fischer, John
Fishe, James
Fisher, Richard
Fitzpatrick, Robert
Fix, Douglas
Flamini, Dennis
Flavin, John
Fluent, Grant
Flynn, Harold
Ford, Dean
Ford, John
Ford, Michael
Forrest, Gerald
Forsberg, Erik
Fosse, James M
Fox, Byron
Fox, Stephen
Franz, Carl
Fray, Jerry
Frazier, Ford
French, Edwin
French, James
Fromm, John
Fulgham, Bill
Fullilove, Ken
Fulmer, Joseph
Fussell, Larry
Fux, Franz
Gabbard, Gary
Gallagher, Noel
Gallenbach, Craig
Gantzer, Charles G
Gardner, Albert
Gardner, Terrence
Garland, Doug
Garrou, Douglas
Gates, Leo
Geese, Ronald
Geldermann, Daniel
Genzlinger, Reade
George, Joe
George, Neal
German, Mark
Giacona, William
Gibbons, Robert
Giddens, Gerald
Gillespie, Byron
Gillespie, Rl
Gilliatt, Jim
Glaeser, Dennis
Gleason, Mike
Goff, George
Goguen, Jon
Goguen, Nelson
Golden, Dennis
Goode, Richard
Goodings, John
Goodridge, Stuart
Goolsby, James
Gordon, Keith
Gottelt, Herbert
Gott, Shelby
Goudinoff, Peter
Gower, Gary
Gowing, John
Grabb, Gary
Graham, Jim
Graham Jr, W Doyce
Graichen, Peter
Grajek, Al
Grant, Jordan
Grantz, Alan
Green, Luther
Greenough, Jim
Griffin, Bill
Griffin, Jim
Griffin, Robert
Grigson, Greg
Grimmonpre, Jerry
Groell, Pascal
Groote, Curtis
Grosse, John
Gummo, Thomas
Gustafson, Aaron
Gwin, Rique
Hackler, Douglas
Haertlein, Frank
Hagar, Steve
Hale, Ade
Haley, Gary
Hall, Charles
Hall, Joel
Halvorsen, Lyf
Hamer, Steve
Hamilton, Red
Hamilton, William J
Hand, Christopher
Hankinson, Julian
Hanley, BrettAlan
Hanley, Mark
Hansen, ArnoldKristian
Hansen, Graham
Happ, Paul
Harcourt, David
Haring, Robert
Harmon, John
Harrill, Roy
Harrison, Nigel
Harrod, Peter
Hart, Rob
Hasbrouck, John
Hatch, Fletcher
Hatfield, Cecil
Hatfield, William
Hauck, John
Haverlah, Dennis
Haynes, Joel
Heaton, Herb
Hedrick, Keith
Hefferan, Rex
Hefner, Jim
Hegenauer, Elmar
Hegenauer, Manuela
Heindl, Karl
Hein, Jim
Heller, Martin
Helming, LarryRobert
Henwick, Mark
Heritch, Ian
Herminghaus, John
Herron, Al
Hershberger, Edward
Herzner, Fred
Hetrick, Dale
Heykoop, John
Hibbing, William
Higgins, Floran
Hill, Jeff
Hill, Ken
Hill, Kenneth
Hill, StanleyA
Hinde, Frank
Hodges, Mitchell
Hoffman, Allan
Hoffman, Carl
Holifield, Steve
Holland, James
Holland, Rick
Holliday, Robert
Holyoke, Ed
Honer, Michael
Hooper, Randy
Horne, Gilbert
Horton, Kevin
Howell, Kenneth
Howey, Ralph
Huft, John
Hughes, Robert
Hukill, Chris
Hunter, Robert
Hunt, Malcolm
Hunton, Jim
Hunt, Wallace
Hurd, James
Hurn, JohnAllen
Hurst, Kingsley
Hutchins, Mike
Hyde, Ken
Isler, Jerry
Jacko, Victor W
Jaussi, Curtis
Jensen, Charles
Jensen, Marinus
Jernigan, Carroll
Jessen, John
Johannsson, Johann G
Johansson, Max
John, Kent
Johnsen, Svein
Johnson, David
Johnson, DennisL
Johnson, Forrest
Johnson, Ken
Johnson, Russell
Johnson, William
Johnston, Christopher
Johnston, Dudley
Johnston, Stephen
Jones, David
Jones, Don W
Jones, Eric M
Jones, Kenneth
Joosten, Craig
Jordan, JR
Joyce, David
Jula, TheodoreF
Julian, Raymond
Jung, John
Jurotich, Matthew
Kaluza, Charles
Katra, James
Kaufmann, Robert
Kayner, Dennis
Kearney, John
Keener, Forest
Kelly, Michael
Kemp, Roger
Kenney, Thomas
Kerr, Dennis
Kesterton, Donald
Kilburg, Larry
Killion, Clay
Kimsey, Thomas
King, John
Kinkade, Les
Kinne, Russ
Kinney, Kevin
Kirk, Floyd
Kister, Dale
Klein, Larry
Klingmuller, Lothar
Knievel, Gerald
Knoll, Barrett
Knotts, F Barry
Knott, Vernon
Kohles, Jerry
Koonce, RL
Kramer, Ed
Krueger, Grant
Kruleski, Chet
Kulp, David
Kummer, Gerald
Kuntz, Paul
Kuss, Charles
Kyle, Fergus
Kyle, Larry
Lackwitz, Raymond
Ladd, Pat
Laird, Dave
Lammers, Dave
Lannon, Walter
Lansden, John
Larsen, Gene
Larson, Joseph
Larzilliere, Alain
Lathrop, Jim
Laundy, Mike
Laurie, Kip
Ledbetter, Gene
Lederman, Howard
Ledoux, Paul
Lee, Terrence
Lee, Thomas
Leggette, Edward
Lehman, Ken
Leinberger, Gary
Lekven, Carl
Lendon, Ron
Lenton, Dennis
Lerohl, Gaylen
Levy, Pierre
Lewis, Scott
Lewis, Terry
Lewis, Tim
Ligon, Howard
Lilja, Ken
Lind, David
Lindsay, Robert
Linebaugh, Jeff
Lineberry, Gary
Linse, Mike
Lively, Chad
Lloyd, Brian
Lloyd, Daniel
Loer, Stanley
Logan, Michael
Long, Charles
Long, Eugene
Long, Patrick
Longwell, Anna
Loring, Arthur
Loring Jr, Arthur P
Loubert, Gary
Lovley, Forrest
Lucas, David
Lundin, Richard
Lynch, Charles
Lyscars, Alan
Macdonald, Larry
Macinnes, Bruce
Mackay, Alex
Macon, Mike
Mahurin, Jerry
Mains, Ralph
Malczynski, Francis
Markle, Jim
Marlow, Sam
Marshall, Aaron
Marshall, FR
Martin, Jay
Martin, Mickey
Mason, John
Mason, Marty
Massari, Stephen
Massey, Allen
Masys, Daniel
Matejcek, Glen
Matlack, Dean
Matteson, Lynn
May, George
May, James
Mcallister, Paul
Mcbean, John
Mcbride, Duncan
Mccallister, Don
Mccallum, Robert
Mcchesney, James
Mcconnell, Roger
Mcdaniel, Steve
Mcdonald, Stephen
Mcfarland, Larry
Mcfarlane, Lloyd
Mckeon, Vincent
Mckervey, Joseph
Mckinnon, Greg
Mcmahon, John
Mcnutt, George
Medeiros, Joel
Melenyzer Iv, Cl
Mell, Roger
Merchant, Dean
Merrill, Dj
Messinger, Paul
Meyers, Jess
Meyers, John
Meylor, Dean
Milgrom, Mark
Miller, David
Miller, John
Miller, Michael
Miller, Terrence
Mills, Jack
Mitchell, Paul
Montagne, Ray
Montague, Neita
Montoure, Kenneth
Moore, Dave
Moore, David
Moore, Goff
Moore, Paul
Moore, Tom
Moore, Warren
Moran, Felix
Morawski, Brett
Morehead, Jim
Morley, Hal
MorrisN75up, Dave
Morris, Steven
Morrow, Dan
Mortimore, Terry
Moser, Scott
Mountain, Patrick
Mrotzek, Dan
Mulcahy, Bob
Muldoon Jr, Francis
Muller, Albert
Muller, Mick
Mulwitz, Paul
Munn, Mike
Munro, Robert
Murphy, Walt
Myers, George
Myers, Gerald
Myers, John
Nadeau, Michael
Naumuk, William
Navratil, Mark
Navratil, Richard
Naylor, Doug
Needham, James
Neilsen, Richard
Neitzel, Richard
Nelson, James
Nelson, Larry
Newkirk, Bill
Newsum, James
Nicely, Vince
Nichols, Clem
Niles, Bruce
Nimigon, David
Noyer, Robert
Nuckolls Iii, Robert L
Nutt, James
Obrien, John
Ochs, James
Ockuly, Bernie
Oconnor, Edward
O'Day, Jim
Offill, Danny
O'Hara, Tom
Ohnigian, Steve
Okeefe, Lawrence
Oke, Jim
Oldford, David
Oliver, Bradley
Olsen, Paul
Olson, Bob
Olson, Brad
Olson, Gary
Olson, Tim
Orear, Jeff
Orsborn, Thomas
Overgaard, Allan
Owens, Donald
Packard, Tom
Palamarek, Ted
Pansier, Don
Partyka, LeeM
Paulich, John
Payne, Craig
Pearsall, Don
Peck, Kenneth
Peerenboom, Paul
Pelletier, David
Pellien, James
Peoples, James
Perez, M Domenic
Perkinson, Robert
Perry, Ilan
Perry, Richard
Persels, Lyle
Peterson, Alex
Peterson, David A
Petri, David
Petty, Paul
Pfeifer, Michael
Pfundt, Jan
Phillips, Mark
Phillips, Terrence
Pierce, Roger
Pierce, Tony
Pierson Jr, Edward
Pierzina, Michael
Pike, Richard
Pilling, Kevin
Plecenik, Michael
Pocock, Graham
Point, Jeff
Polits, Richard
Ponzio, John
Porter, Richard
Portouw, Lawrence
Powell, Ken
Prater, Michael
Preston, Doug
Prevost, Guy
Princell, Bill
Pritchard, Jeff
Pritchard, Roger
Puglise, James
Puls, Jeffrey
Quinn, Rollie
Quist, David
Rabbers, Richard
Raby, Ron
Radford, Joe
Rammos, Ricardo
Randolph, George
Ransom, Brad
Rataj, Mark
Ray, Carl
Reel, David
Reese, Craig
Reese, Wayne
Reeves, Dan
Reid, Greg
Reining, Bill
Reining, Jonathan
Reusser, Hans-peter
Reynolds, Richard
Ribb, Dan
Rice, Paul
Richardson, Colin
Richardson, Paul
Richards, Stephen
Rickard, Ian
Rickman, Loy
Ricks, Allen
Rigby, David
Riggs, Lynn
Rigney, Bruce
Risch, Robert
Ritter, Mark T
Roberts, Gary
Roberts, John
Robertson, Bob
Roberts, Rick
Robinette, William
Robson, Peter
Rodebush, James
Rodgers, Paul
Rodriguez, Paul
Rodriguez, Pedro
Roehr, Michael
Ronnau, James
Ross, Christopher
Ross, Jonathan
Rousselle, Kenneth
Rowbotham, Chuck
Rowe, Denny
Rowe, Jay
Rueb, Duane
Ruksnaitis, WilliamF
Russell, Larry
Ryan, Michael
Sa, Carlos
Sagerser, James
Sager, Truman
Saligman, Ira
Sallas, C William
Salter, Phillip
Sanders, Andrew
Sanford, Fred
Sapp, Douglas
Sargeant, Jack
Sargent, Thomas
Savarese, Anthony Dennis
Sax, Sam
Saylor, David
Schemmel, Grant
Schertz, William
Schieber, Cedric
Schieffer, Charles
Schilf, Richard
Schlafly, Fred
Schlatterer, Bill
Schlosser, Kevin
Schmidt, John
Schmitendorf, Bill
Schneider, Benjamin
Schneider, Werner
Schoenberger, Robert
Schott, Jared
Schrader, Kurt
Schreck, Ron
Schrimmer, Mark
Schroeder, Earl
Schroeder, John
Schulke, Thomas
Scott,Jr, Fred W
Scott, Mark
Scroggs, Ross
Seagrave, Scott
Seal, John
Selby,Jr, Jim
Setser, David
Seve, Eddie
Shablow, John
Shafer, James
Shanks, Jim
Shank, William
Shannon, Kevin
Sharp, Michael
Sharp, Ralph
Shaw, Cliff
Shaw, Rex
Shepherd, Dallas
Shepherd, Stanislaus
Sheridan, Roger
Sherry, James
Shiple, Fred
Shipley, RobWM
Shipley, Walt
Shumaker, Jim
Siegfried, Oldbob
Simmons, Kendall
Simpson, Skip
Simutis, Frank J
Sinclair, Michael
Sinke, Jim
Sipp, Richard
Sisson, Phil
Skelly, Brian
Skyring, Kerry
Slatt, Gary
Small, Thomas
Smart, Steven
Smith, Bret
Smith, DannyL
Smith, Gene
Smith, Jeff
Smith, Kirk
Smith, Roland
Smith, Ronal
Smith, Zed
Snedaker, Bob
Snyder, Bruce
Soikkeli, Robert
Solecki, John
Sparks, Timothy
Spaur, Chuck
Specht, Stan
Spencer, Scott
Springer, Gerald
Spudis, Robert
Staal, Stephen
Staley, Dick
Starnes, Robert
Starn, JH "kabong"
Stefan, Leon
Steitle, Mark
Stelwagon, Frank
Stephanak, Bob
Stevenson, Will
Stewart, Michael
Stinemetze, Thomas
St-laurent, Ray
Stone, Christopher
Stone, Jim
Strange, Ted
Stribling, James
Strong, Gary
Sutterfield, Stan
Swaney, Mark
Swankie, Ian
Swartout, John
Swinford, George
Syverson, David
Szantho, John B
Tarmar, Brian
Tasker, Richard
Tatro, John
Tatz, Norm
Tauchen, Bryan
Taupier, John
Teegarden, Vaughn
Testement, John
Tew, Stanley
Textor, Jack
Tezyk, Robert
Thatcher, Scott
Therrien, Michel
Tholen, Tom
Thomas, Bruce
Thomas, Glenn
Thomas, James
Thomas, Lee
Thomason, Mannan
Thomason, Michael
Thomas, Stephen
Thorp, Kevin
Thwing, Randy
Tichy, Robert
Tilford, Stephen
Tillmann, Johan
Timm, Peter
Timoney, James
Tinker, R Rupert
Tomlin, Thomas
Tomm, Bevan
Tompkins, Jeff
Toro, Jose
Tower, John
Trombley, Erich
Trost, Sebastian
Trotter, Paul
Tuck, John
Tupper, Kirby
Turrell, Mike
Turrentine, Donna
Tuton, Bill
Tyler, George
Unruh, Brian
Unternaehrer, Rolf
Upshaw, Roman
Usrey, Reed
Utsey, Randy
Utterback, ThomasE
Vader, Tim
Valovich, Paul
Vandenberg, Daniel
Van Der Voort, Hans
VanDerZouw, Henkjan
Van Eldik, Anthony
Vangrunsven, Stan
VanHeeswijk, J
Van Lanen, David
Van Winkle, Alden
Varnes, William
Vaughan, Cye
Vaughan, Lee
Venables, JohnRoger
Verdev, Victor
Versteeg, Maarten
Vervoort, Jef
Vetterli, Richard
Vinal, Adelbert
Vinroot, Robert
Vogt, Gary
Von Bevern, Brian
Von Doymi, Carl
VonRuden, Dennis
Voss, Richard
Vranken, Karel
Wade, Jim
Wagner Jr, James E
Wagoner, Richard
Waligroski, Gregg
Walker, Robbie
Walker, Tommy
Walker, Valerie
Walker, Weston
Walmsley, Brett
Walrath, Howard
Walsh, Denis
Wambolt, Charles
Ward, Ann
Washburn, Oliver
Watson, Terrence
Weaver, Fred
Webb, Randol
Wehner, Clem
Weiler, Douglas C
Weinstock, Steven
Weisfeld, Hans-peter
Weiss, Richard
Welsch, Philip
Welsh, Don
Werner, Russell
Wetzel, Bob
Whelan, Thomas
White, Bob
White, Charles
Whiteley, Kenneth
White, Phil
Whittfield, Clive
Whittington, Dewitt
Wigney, John
Wilde, Daniel
Williamson, Richard
Williamson, William
Williams, Terry
Willis, Tim
Wilson, James
Wilson, Kelly
Winburn, Larry
Winings, James
Wither, Louis
Woboril, David
Wood, Larry
Woods, Donald
Wsiaki, Michael
Wynn, Michael
Yeamans, David
York, Richard
Young, Al
Young, Dan
Young, Dee
Young, Greg
Zakreski, Steve
Zecherle, John
Zelinski, Alan
Zilz, Dave
Zirges, Malcolm
Zollinger, Duane
Zuniga, Oscar
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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Byron, Just wondering if you might have the time to send me a copy of those graphics?
Thats going to be my next prodject. Once we get the new engine and prop
here and installed.
Thanks,
Michael Bolton
PO Box 753
Lugoff, SC 29078
803.427.0604
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Decals
Tom, and anybody else, I have the Chinese star and bars in my computer from the
sign shop that did mine. Happy to give it to you. It can be taken to any nearby
graphics outfit and reproduced. I also have a source, supplied to me by Jeff
Linebaugh, for all the Chinese markings on the various exterior panels. Let
me know.
But, Tom, this is clearly leading to a new look. How are we ever going to recognize
your plane?
...Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
Home 415-380-0907
Cell 415-307-2405
Message 3
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Gentlemen:
I am a recent YAK 52 owner and I have a question. Is there an advantage to recovering
the control surfaces in aluminum, rather than replacing the fabric?
I have been told that the fabric provides a better platform for aerobatics with
a lighter stick and quicker handling. What about aluminum, better cruise
speed?
is there an advantage to the Yak 52M larger rudder?
thanks and I will look forward to the answers from this knowledgeable group
ROBERT E. SCHWARTZ
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: e: Yak-List: |
Leave the fabric on the control surfaces.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Schwartz
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List:
Gentlemen:
I am a recent YAK 52 owner and I have a question. Is there an advantage to
recovering the control surfaces in aluminum, rather than replacing the fabric?
I have been told that the fabric provides a better platform for aerobatics with
a lighter stick and quicker handling. What about aluminum, better cruise
speed?
is there an advantage to the Yak 52M larger rudder?
thanks and I will look forward to the answers from this knowledgeable group
ROBERT E. SCHWARTZ
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air pressure situation,
but here's a couple more to think about:
Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or not to
go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you have enough
to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on. Personally,
I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on short final, or
while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I have to....
If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to go around,
there are some considerations:
1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the flap handle
to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral with the flap
handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap without using air. Not
sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop the leak
and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in the gear selector
valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the back gear selector,
if you have a back seater.
3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in addition
to the gear.
4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the compressor
will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the -52, the emergency
air can only be recharged on the ground.
5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word several times,
and it has never caused me any trouble with the "authorities". On the contrary,
controllers are very helpful and most truely care about your well-being
and will do anything they can to help.
Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear actuator
itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have depleted the main
air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible to deplete both air
sources?
Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke everyone
to think about some of the what-ifs...
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Message 6
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Troops,
As many of you know Terry "Pumper" Calloway and myself beat feet down to
Orlando for ICAS convention. I was there to get some "free" flying for our
members, and Terry let us (RPA) use his booth and his membership to put our name
and idea in front of hundreds of airshow sponsors that ply the convention
looking for airshow performers. The Blue Angles, T-Birds, Waggstaff, Tucker -
are just a few names that are looking for "bookings" there. Some of our
members are ICAS performers and were there too.
I need to thank Terry for giving me advice and know how on what to expect
there. There is certain "flow" on how things happen and to the new guy it
could be a little daunting.
First the Sure thing.
We were able to book one (1) show for certain and received a deposit check.
Therefore Springfield, ILL expects 18 airplanes to show up June 22-25, 2006.
Next we come to the VERY good "maybes". These sponsors looked at our
details, took names and said that they'd send us a contract or needed to look
closely at their venue and or budget. We can expect to hear from:
Vidalia, Georgia ---- April 29-30
La Cross, WI -------June 17-18
Milwaukee, WI, ---- July (14-15 ??)
We had VERY interested inquiries from and may hear from after budget checks.
The military guys are really cash strapped by their COs so this sounded
like very good deals to them. Particularly since they can have us stay free in
BOQ's.
MCAS Beaufort, SC --------- April 29-30 (Sly should love this one)
Vance AFB, OK -------------- May 20
Springfield, MO. -------------- July 3-4
St. Jo, Mo. --------------------- July 8-9
Grand Forks AFB, ND, ----July 23
Front Range, CO. - ( ? 22-25) ( I can't read my notes)
We had other airshow planners pick up our pamphlets and showed passing
interest.
Redding, CA. being one good one.
The Valiant Air Command at Titusville, FL. wants us. But cannot pay the
"big donation". They will pay up to $500/aircraft for gas to and from TIX,
including fuel and oil for show flying. They will pay $50.00/ day toward hotel
rooms and provide transportation to and from hotel. They will wave the VAC
membership requirements for us. The date for this show is March 10-11-12.
I've put this out as early as I dare, because I want you guys/gals to pre
think your dates. Please don't call or e-mail me just yet and I'm not the
guys who is supposed to "handle" the scheduling. Those who have already signed
up, will hear from somebody.
Also some of these shows will be done along with fellow members who have
solo acts and our performance will be mixed with theirs. Those who have done
these type shows before can tell you we have a great time and meet really neat
folks. And it don't cost us much!!!!!
For our first time I believe we did very well considering we had just a one
page info sheet, a 2 x 3 sign, our RPA flag, and couple of formation pictures
off my hangar wall.
Thanks again to Terry and Jeff.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Time to really get to work on my commercial ticket.
Ernie
On 12/5/05, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Troops,
>
> As many of you know Terry "Pumper" Calloway and myself beat feet down to
> Orlando for ICAS convention. I was there to get some "free" flying for our
> members, and Terry let us (RPA) use his booth and his membership to put our
> name and idea in front of hundreds of airshow sponsors that ply the
> convention looking for airshow performers. The Blue Angles, T-Birds,
> Waggstaff, Tucker - are just a few names that are looking for "bookings"
> there. Some of our members are ICAS performers and were there too.
>
> I need to thank Terry for giving me advice and know how on what to expect
> there. There is certain "flow" on how things happen and to the new guy it
> could be a little daunting.
>
> First the Sure thing.
> We were able to book one (1) show for certain and received a deposit check.
> Therefore Springfield, ILL expects 18 airplanes to show up June 22-25, 2006.
>
> Next we come to the VERY good "maybes". These sponsors looked at our
> details, took names and said that they'd send us a contract or needed to
> look closely at their venue and or budget. We can expect to hear from:
>
> Vidalia, Georgia ---- April 29-30
> La Cross, WI -------June 17-18
> Milwaukee, WI, ---- July (14-15 ??)
>
>
> We had VERY interested inquiries from and may hear from after budget checks.
> The military guys are really cash strapped by their COs so this sounded
> like very good deals to them. Particularly since they can have us stay free
> in BOQ's.
> MCAS Beaufort, SC --------- April 29-30 (Sly should love this one)
> Vance AFB, OK -------------- May 20
> Springfield, MO. -------------- July 3-4
> St. Jo, Mo. --------------------- July 8-9
> Grand Forks AFB, ND, ----July 23
> Front Range, CO. - ( ? 22-25) ( I can't read my notes)
>
> We had other airshow planners pick up our pamphlets and showed passing
> interest.
> Redding, CA. being one good one.
>
> The Valiant Air Command at Titusville, FL. wants us. But cannot pay the
> "big donation". They will pay up to $500/aircraft for gas to and from TIX,
> including fuel and oil for show flying. They will pay $50.00/ day toward
> hotel rooms and provide transportation to and from hotel. They will wave
> the VAC membership requirements for us. The date for this show is March
> 10-11-12.
>
> I've put this out as early as I dare, because I want you guys/gals to pre
> think your dates. Please don't call or e-mail me just yet and I'm not the
> guys who is supposed to "handle" the scheduling. Those who have already
> signed up, will hear from somebody.
>
> Also some of these shows will be done along with fellow members who have
> solo acts and our performance will be mixed with theirs. Those who have
> done these type shows before can tell you we have a great time and meet
> really neat folks. And it don't cost us much!!!!!
>
> For our first time I believe we did very well considering we had just a one
> page info sheet, a 2 x 3 sign, our RPA flag, and couple of formation
> pictures off my hangar wall.
>
> Thanks again to Terry and Jeff.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
In my experience, most of the air pressure leaks which appear to be from the
gear selector itself are not caused by a faulty gear selector. They are
from the internal seals in the actuator leaking which ultimately end up
leaking out the opposite side of the actuator and out the gear selector
handle. On the Yak 52, placing the front gear selector in the neutral
position will discharge whatever air is the actuators. If you are
wondering whether this is true or not, review the emergency gear extension
procedures for the 52. Step 3 of the procedure is to place the gear
selector in neutral. If you understand the pneumatic system on the 52,
you'll understand why you put the selector in neutral prior to opening the
emergency air valve.
Jeff's point about a possible leaking actuator depleting both the main and
emergency air tanks if the emergency air valve were to be opened is true.
But while true, the absolute first and best thing to do would be to get the
gear down and locked. Once down and locked, regardless of whether you have
air pressure for the brakes, you will at least have the opportunity land
safely. Stopping may of course be a problem if the main system is depleted
and you've opened the emergency air valve to extend the gear and there is a
leak in an actuator now depleting the air in the emergency system.
I think the comment "I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air
handle on short final", is somewhat correct. But consider this. If the
gear is indicating down and locked (remember the first scenario was the gear
WAS down with 3 greens showing), there is no reason to "fumble with" the
emergency air valve on short final. Concentrate on landing the airplane
safely. When the wheels touch and you know you're on the ground safely, now
open the emergency air valve. You won't be "fumbling" and the adrenalin
level will probably have dropped a bit so you can now think of only one
thing and that is stopping the airplane. Unless there is a gaping hole in
the side of one of the actuators (not likely), the leak may be there, but
not enough to dump the emergency bottle in the 10 to 15 seconds it will take
to stop the airplane after touchdown. Air pressure is not required to hold
the gear in the down and locked position. Air pressure is required to move
the actuator AWAY from the down and locked position and also INTO the down
and locked position. But not to keep them down and locked. Once
indicating down and locked, no air pressure is needed to keep it there.
Although if there is no leak, there is air pressure in the actuator helping
to hold the actuator in the down and locked position.
On the 52, the emergency system does not supply air to the flaps. So if
you're going to use the flaps, it will have to be with air from the main air
system. If you're very low or out of air in the main tank and you're about
to extend the gear (step 4 of the procedure) using the emergency system and
you've followed the emergency procedure for gear extension, it's too late to
dump the flaps. So plan on landing without flaps. You need air pressure
from the main tank to extend the flaps and the main air valve will now be
off anyway if you've extended the gear with the emergency air system.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>
> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
> not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
> Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
> short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
> have to....
>
> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
> go around, there are some considerations:
>
> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the flap
> handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral with
> the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap without
> using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>
> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop the
> leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in the
> gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
> back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>
> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
> addition to the gear.
>
> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On
> the -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>
> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>
>
> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
> to deplete both air sources?
>
> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
> everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Jeff,
Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the a/c
with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not hot,
and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW, then
I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it to
chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
the gear extended and 3 green showing.
Good one,
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
<jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>
> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
have to....
>
> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
go around, there are some considerations:
>
> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap without
using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>
> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in
the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>
> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
addition to the gear.
>
> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
-52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>
> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
"authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>
>
>
> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
to deplete both air sources?
>
> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Just a point that might be worth discussing. I was told by an old Chinese
CJ6 instructor pilot that the Chinese teach to ALWAYS land with canopies
open when there is ANY hint of an emergency. Might be sage advice well worth
considering as it just might buy you the few seconds you need should things
really decide to go south on you.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
final
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Jeff,
Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the a/c
with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not hot,
and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW, then
I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it to
chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
the gear extended and 3 green showing.
Good one,
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
<jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>
> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>
> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
have to....
>
> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
go around, there are some considerations:
>
> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap without
using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>
> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in
the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>
> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
addition to the gear.
>
> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
-52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>
> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
"authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>
>
> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
to deplete both air sources?
>
> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> CJ-6P N621CJ
> Memphis, TN
>
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I agree 100% with Doc that it would be best to deal with this situation
while on the ground. Particularly since the original scenario had the gear
already down and locked.
Actually Doc, since the gear is already down and locked, you don't have to
put the gear handle in neutral before you open the emergency air valve. The
only reason you do put the gear handle in neutral is to depressurize the
actuators so the shuttle valve moves and the actuator pressurizes when the
emergency valve is opened. Save all the air pressure you can by not
putting the handle in neutral in this situation.
By opening the emergency valve on the ground with the gear already down and
locked, the air from the emergency air tank will be used for the brakes. If
one or more of the actuators is leaking, when you open the emergency air
valve the system will try to repressurize the actuators without air pressure
in them. Which is an "I could give a crap about that right now" situation.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Jeff,
> Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
> emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
> open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the a/c
> with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
> gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
> not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not hot,
> and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
> then
> I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it
> to
> chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
> the gear extended and 3 green showing.
> Good one,
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>>
>> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
> not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
> Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
> short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
> have to....
>>
>> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
> go around, there are some considerations:
>>
>> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
> flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
> with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap
> without
> using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>>
>> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
> the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in
> the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
> back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>>
>> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
> addition to the gear.
>>
>> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
> -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>>
>> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
> to deplete both air sources?
>>
>> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
> everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Linebaugh
>> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
>> CJ-6P N621CJ
>> Memphis, TN
>>
>> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Excellent point Doug.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Just a point that might be worth discussing. I was told by an old Chinese
> CJ6 instructor pilot that the Chinese teach to ALWAYS land with canopies
> open when there is ANY hint of an emergency. Might be sage advice well
> worth
> considering as it just might buy you the few seconds you need should
> things
> really decide to go south on you.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:32 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
> final
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Jeff,
> Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
> emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
> open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the a/c
> with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
> gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
> not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not hot,
> and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
> then
> I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it
> to
> chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
> the gear extended and 3 green showing.
> Good one,
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>>
>> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
> not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
> Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
> short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
> have to....
>>
>> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
> go around, there are some considerations:
>>
>> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
> flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
> with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap
> without
> using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>>
>> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
> the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in
> the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
> back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>>
>> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
> addition to the gear.
>>
>> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
> -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>>
>> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
> to deplete both air sources?
>>
>> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
> everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Linebaugh
>> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
>> CJ-6P N621CJ
>> Memphis, TN
>>
>> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Is there any additional drag induced with the canopies open? Something
to think about if you were on a slow final in anticipation of no
brakes.
Ernie
On 12/5/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Just a point that might be worth discussing. I was told by an old Chinese
> CJ6 instructor pilot that the Chinese teach to ALWAYS land with canopies
> open when there is ANY hint of an emergency. Might be sage advice well worth
> considering as it just might buy you the few seconds you need should things
> really decide to go south on you.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:32 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
> final
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Jeff,
> Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
> emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
> open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the a/c
> with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
> gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
> not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not hot,
> and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW, then
> I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it to
> chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
> the gear extended and 3 green showing.
> Good one,
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
> > Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
> >
> > Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether or
> not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press on.
> Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle on
> short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
> have to....
> >
> > If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide to
> go around, there are some considerations:
> >
> > 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
> flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
> with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap without
> using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
> >
> > 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
> the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is in
> the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying the
> back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
> >
> > 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
> addition to the gear.
> >
> > 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
> -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
> >
> > 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be possible
> to deplete both air sources?
> >
> > Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to provoke
> everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > Jeff Linebaugh
> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> > CJ-6P N621CJ
> > Memphis, TN
> >
> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
No drag problems at all. I make a point to land all the time with canopy
open.
There are numerous places that one can loose air in these system. I've lost
air (and still do to a lesser extent) though the flap actuator. (The seals
are not perfect I guess). Making sure the flap handle is in neutral "seals"
the leak.
I seem to remember in the books somewhere that the minimum pressure to
operate the gear is 25 atom and to have break pressure a minimum of 10 atoms is
required.
Pappy
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Definitely if the rear canopy is open and I'd guess also true if the front
only is open.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Is there any additional drag induced with the canopies open? Something
> to think about if you were on a slow final in anticipation of no
> brakes.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 12/5/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>>
>> Just a point that might be worth discussing. I was told by an old
>> Chinese
>> CJ6 instructor pilot that the Chinese teach to ALWAYS land with canopies
>> open when there is ANY hint of an emergency. Might be sage advice well
>> worth
>> considering as it just might buy you the few seconds you need should
>> things
>> really decide to go south on you.
>>
>> Always Yakin,
>> Doug Sapp
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:32 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
>> final
>>
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Jeff,
>> Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
>> emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up to
>> open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the
>> a/c
>> with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise the
>> gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I do
>> not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not
>> hot,
>> and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
>> then
>> I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it
>> to
>> chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final
>> with
>> the gear extended and 3 green showing.
>> Good one,
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
>> > Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>> >
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
>> <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
>> >
>> > Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
>> pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
>> >
>> > Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether
>> > or
>> not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
>> have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press
>> on.
>> Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle
>> on
>> short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if I
>> have to....
>> >
>> > If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide
>> > to
>> go around, there are some considerations:
>> >
>> > 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
>> flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
>> with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap
>> without
>> using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
>> >
>> > 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
>> the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is
>> in
>> the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying
>> the
>> back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
>> >
>> > 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
>> addition to the gear.
>> >
>> > 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
>> compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
>> -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
>> >
>> > 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
>> several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
>> "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
>> truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
>> actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
>> depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be
>> possible
>> to deplete both air sources?
>> >
>> > Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to
>> > provoke
>> everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> > Jeff Linebaugh
>> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> > http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
>> > CJ-6P N621CJ
>> > Memphis, TN
>> >
>> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Simple answer, Yes. Acts like a giant speed brake.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/5/2005 2:28:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Is there any additional drag induced with the canopies open? Something
> to think about if you were on a slow final in anticipation of no
> brakes.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 12/5/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Just a point that might be worth discussing. I was told by an old
Chinese
> > CJ6 instructor pilot that the Chinese teach to ALWAYS land with canopies
> > open when there is ANY hint of an emergency. Might be sage advice well
worth
> > considering as it just might buy you the few seconds you need should
things
> > really decide to go south on you.
> >
> > Always Yakin,
> > Doug Sapp
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
> > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:32 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
> > final
> >
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Jeff,
> > Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
> > emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up
to
> > open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the
a/c
> > with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise
the
> > gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I
do
> > not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not
hot,
> > and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
then
> > I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow
it to
> > chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final
with
> > the gear extended and 3 green showing.
> > Good one,
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
final
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> > <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> > pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
> > >
> > > Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide
whether or
> > not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> > have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press
on.
> > Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle
on
> > short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if
I
> > have to....
> > >
> > > If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and
decide to
> > go around, there are some considerations:
> > >
> > > 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
> > flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
> > with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap
without
> > using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
> > >
> > > 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
> > the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is
in
> > the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying
the
> > back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
> > >
> > > 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps,
in
> > addition to the gear.
> > >
> > > 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> > compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
> > -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
> > >
> > > 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> > several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> > "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> > truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> > actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> > depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be
possible
> > to deplete both air sources?
> > >
> > > Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to
provoke
> > everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > Jeff Linebaugh
> > > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> > > CJ-6P N621CJ
> > > Memphis, TN
> > >
> > > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Now that you point that out...I remember that now!
Slow day at the orifice...must be the weather change. All my patients that
showed up had tight sphincters and their circuit brakers popped!
Thanks,
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/5/2005 2:15:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
final
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I agree 100% with Doc that it would be best to deal with this situation
> while on the ground. Particularly since the original scenario had the
gear
> already down and locked.
>
> Actually Doc, since the gear is already down and locked, you don't have
to
> put the gear handle in neutral before you open the emergency air valve.
The
> only reason you do put the gear handle in neutral is to depressurize the
> actuators so the shuttle valve moves and the actuator pressurizes when
the
> emergency valve is opened. Save all the air pressure you can by not
> putting the handle in neutral in this situation.
>
> By opening the emergency valve on the ground with the gear already down
and
> locked, the air from the emergency air tank will be used for the brakes.
If
> one or more of the actuators is leaking, when you open the emergency air
> valve the system will try to repressurize the actuators without air
pressure
> in them. Which is an "I could give a crap about that right now"
situation.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:31 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Jeff,
> > Since the gear was already down and locked, I prefer to handle the
> > emergency on the ground. Once on roll out, I can free my right hand up
to
> > open the emergency valve to the right of my knee while controlling the
a/c
> > with my feet on the rudders. Slide the slide lock to the right, raise
the
> > gear handle to neutral and open the Emergency air valve if I am sure I
do
> > not have any braking authority. If I landed at my home drome, was not
hot,
> > and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
> > then
> > I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow
it
> > to
> > chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final
with
> > the gear extended and 3 green showing.
> > Good one,
> > Doc
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 12/5/2005 11:04:45 AM
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh
> > <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >> Most of the points I had in mind have been made on this loss of air
> > pressure situation, but here's a couple more to think about:
> >>
> >> Air pressure on final 20 and dropping...tough for me to decide whether
or
> > not to go around. The big concern is brakes, of course. If you think you
> > have enough to land and stop safely (is there a crosswind?) then press
on.
> > Personally, I'd rather not have to fumble with the emergency air handle
on
> > short final, or while trying to keep the airplane on the runway. But if
I
> > have to....
> >>
> >> If you don't have enough air (say it is closer to zero...), and decide
to
> > go around, there are some considerations:
> >>
> >> 1) On the go-around, you will want to raise the flap(s)...raising the
> > flap handle to up will use air. On the CJ, an option is to go to neutral
> > with the flap handle. Slipstream and the bungee will raise the flap
> > without
> > using air. Not sure if this is the case with the Yaks.
> >>
> >> 2) As Brian mentioned, moving the handle to neutral will probably stop
> > the leak and allow the main air to recharge. It is possible the leak is
in
> > the gear selector valve itself. In this case, it might be worth trying
the
> > back gear selector, if you have a back seater.
> >>
> >> 3) The emergency system will supply air to the brakes and the flaps, in
> > addition to the gear.
> >>
> >> 4) There is a big difference in the CJ and -52 air system in that the
> > compressor will charge both the main and emergency air bottles. On the
> > -52, the emergency air can only be recharged on the ground.
> >>
> >> 5) Never hesitate to declare an emergency. I have used the "e" word
> > several times, and it has never caused me any trouble with the
> > "authorities". On the contrary, controllers are very helpful and most
> > truely care about your well-being and will do anything they can to help.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here is one more question for everyone: What if the leak is in a gear
> > actuator itself (air blowing by the seal in the actuator)? If you have
> > depleted the main air, and turn on the emergency air, would it be
possible
> > to deplete both air sources?
> >>
> >> Again, I don't pretend to have all the answers, I'd just like to
provoke
> > everyone to think about some of the what-ifs...
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> Jeff Linebaugh
> >> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
> >> CJ-6P N621CJ
> >> Memphis, TN
> >>
> >> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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On the 52 series, the engine pump does not recharge the emergency bottle.
On the 50, it does.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Although I am not a CJ expert, I think it would be foolish to design an
emergency system to blow the gear down in an emergency and not have air to
stop the darn thing once you've landed. The Yak's emergency system does
both. However, (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), I
believe the CJ's compressor does recharge the emergency system. Whereas on
the Yak it does not.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Does the emergency air in a CJ interconnect to the main air supply, or
> does it ONLY blow the gear down?
>
> Opening the emergency line wouldn't supply air to the brakes, would it?
>
> Jon
>
>> My reply is based on Yak 52's, but may also apply to CJ6's.
>> What is a likely cause of the air leak?
>>
>> The leak is most likely caused by an undercarriage actuator seal leaking.
>> If air continues to leak out of the gear handle, don't assume you have a
>> bad gear handle. It is most likely a seal leaking in one of the
>> undercarriage actuators.
>>
>> What is the normal air pressure drop when you extend the gear?
>>
>> Expect about 4, maybe 5 ATM's. flap? Expect about 2, possibly 3 ATM's.
>>
>> How long would it take to replenish your air supply if you could isolate
>> the leak?
>>
>> Under normal circumstances, it will take 20 minutes (possibly a little
>> longer, which is also normal) to replenish the main air tank to 50 ATM if
>> the air pressure is at 20 ATM's.
>>
>> How long would you trouble-shoot an air/gear malfunction? With 20 ATM's
>> and on short final, I would not try trouble shooting an air/gear
>> malfunction. The gear is already down and locked and therefore no air
>> pressure is required to maintain the actuators in the down and locked
>> position. The only thing you need air for is to stop the airplane. So
>> slow down and land as close to the threshold as practical; roll out and
>> use brakes only to make the turn off the runway. Now here is an
>> alternative that one might consider. Since the undercarriage is
>> indicating DOWN AND LOCKED and we know we don't need air to keep the
>> undercarriage in the locked position, one could consider opening the
>> emergency air valve while rolling out just to have air pressure to brake
>> the airplane. Once again, since the gear is already down and locked, we
>> don't have to worry about "blowing" the gear down. Assume for a moment
>> that we've accomplished a safe landing and we're rolling out on the
>> runway
>> and we see the MAIN air pressure continue to drop to now about 10 ATM's.
>> Yes, we have a leak, but if we make 50 or so ATM's available for the
>> brakes via the emergency system (yes, the emergency air would also leak
>> out because it also goes to the actuators), based on the time it took to
>> leak down the main system, we would have adequate air to stop the
>> airplane
>> and turn off the runway.
>>
>>
>>
>> . i.e. what is the minimum fuel you would want to land with?
>>
>> Not applicable to this scenario since we decided to proceed with the
>> landing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Linebaugh
>> To: yak-list@matronics. com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:35 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: EP of the Week
>>
>>
>> Things have been a bit slow lately...so how 'bout this one to
>> spice things up?
>>
>> Question of the Week #2
>>
>>
>>
>> You enter the traffic pattern on a busy Saturday afternoon, and
>> report downwind to the tower. Tower responds, "follow the Cessna
>> ahead on downwind, you are #3". You put the gear handle down, get
>> three green lights, and three visual indicators. You check the
>> main air pressure: it is at 32.."hmm, wasn't it just at 40?"
>>
>>
>>
>> You follow the Cessna and eventually turn on to an extended base
>> leg. Intercepting a normal glidepath, you put the flap down, and
>> start down. "oops..now the air is at 22!?" Time to fly the
>> airplane; you are now on final and Tower clears you to land. Back
>> to the air pressure.. it is now down to 20. What are you going to
>> do?
>>
>>
>>
>> Some Points to Consider:
>>
>> You DO always check air pressure on final, don't you???
>>
>> What is a likely cause of the air leak?
>>
>> What is the normal air pressure drop when you extend the gear?
>> flap?
>>
>> How long would it take to replenish your air supply if you could
>> isolate the leak?
>>
>> How long would you trouble-shoot an air/gear malfunction? .
>> i.e.
>> what is the minimum fuel you would want to land with?
>>
>>
>>
>> Some Suggestions for the next time you fly:
>>
>> As a review during your preflight, spend a few minutes tracing
>> your gear retract and extension lines and identify all the
>> components of the gear system.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Linebaugh
>> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
>> CJ-6P N621CJ
>> Memphis, TN
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Hello Andres,
I just got back from a Thanksgiving trip and am getting ready to leave on a
Christmas trip, so I am sorry for not writing back sooner and sorry too that
I will not be around very long to help you.
I am not up to speed on the 55m and am not sure what type of starter system
is used. It SOUNDS like you have the same starter arrangement as is used on
a Sukhoi... is it like a LEVER that you PUSH to allow air into the starter
system, or is it some kind of electrical switch that you push in the cockpit
that actuates a REMOTE air valve?
Please describe in as much detail as you can how your system works... by
that I mean, a description of the parts.
Most YAKS use a starter push button... electrical ..... It sends voltage
to turn on the shower of sparks AND sends power over to a remote air valve
(electrically controlled) that then puts high pressure air up to the starter
distributor on the engine itself.
The Sukhoi's on the other hand, use a lever... and that lever is actually
part of the mechanical valve itself that allows air to go to the starter.
On that same lever is an electrical microswitch that puts power to the
shower of sparks.
Can you tell me what you have?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr Andre Katz [mailto:bu131@swbell.net]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: hoses
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net>
hello mark: I have written to you in the past, I have
a yak 55m the main starter valve is shut, the seals
are all gone inside and the small ruber gasket has
disintegrated and sent pieces to the air manifold
luckily we retrieve them all but I am in need of a
starter valve, I have not been able to locate one here
in usa, would like to get another as spare, the parts
look rather flimsy, if not available is there an
alternative I heard swage lok makes a ball valve that
may replace that fitting, it is the electromechanic
part that sets the shower of sparks at the same time
that pressurizes the engine with compressedair
thanks andres
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW, then
> I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow it to
> chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final with
> the gear extended and 3 green showing.
You are forgetting something: loss of directional control. Without air
you have no steering on the ground once your rudder becomes
aerodynamically ineffective (below about 30 kts in the CJ6A). Anyone who
has had a brake cable break can tell you just how impotent you are going
to feel. So your plan to just roll to a stop might not be a good one if
there is any crosswind at all. In that case the aircraft will weather
vane and drive right off the runway, possibly taking a runway light with
it and converting a non-event into an incident or perhaps even an
accident should your gear fold up due to an impact.
This is the reason I suggested popping the emergency bottle on short
final. Given the rate of air pressure loss in the scenario that should
give you sufficient pressure for the duration needed to brake the
aircraft to a stop.
One thing that might be considered is the availability of of a big
runway somewhere nearby. Here in Sacramento we have both Mather and
McClellan, ex Air Force bases with long, wide runways. If you know you
have no air, find a runway aligned as closely as possible with the wind
and land on the downwind side. As the aircraft slows it will weather
vane into the wind but a 150' wide runway will still allow you to coast
to a stop without going off the runway.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 21
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| Subject: | Aluminum control surfaces |
Robert, leave the fabric on the surfaces if it's modern Ceconite. If they're
cotton surfaces replace them with Stits or it's equivalent. Don't go
aluminum surfaces....people have nothing but problems with them when they
convert to aluminum.
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
K32
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Schwartz
Subject: Yak-List:
Gentlemen:
I am a recent YAK 52 owner and I have a question. Is there an advantage to
recovering the control surfaces in aluminum, rather than replacing the
fabric? I have been told that the fabric provides a better platform for
aerobatics with a lighter stick and quicker handling. What about aluminum,
better cruise speed?
is there an advantage to the Yak 52M larger rudder?
thanks and I will look forward to the answers from this knowledgeable group
ROBERT E. SCHWARTZ
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
Message 22
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Ray Hanna
28 August 1928 - 1 December 2005
It was with great sadness that we announce the death of Ray Hanna.
Ray, who was 77 years, joined the Royal Air Force in 1949 having learned to
fly in New Zealand in 1947/48. Following training on the Prentice, Harvard
and Meteor he was fortunate enough to fly such piston types as the Tempest V
Sea Fury, Balliol and Beaufighter.
His first operational posting was to 79 Squadron, 2ATAF flying FR9 Meteors.
In the fifties, he flew nearly all the early British jets including Vampires
Venoms, Attackers, Sea Hawks, Swifts and Javelins.
Ray first led a team of four Hunters in 1957, in 1963/64 was a member of the
College of Air Warfare Meteor Team and was selected for the newly-formed Red
Arrows as No 3 in 1965.
To the best of my knowledge, he remains the longest serving Leader in the
history of the team.
Ray's leadership is widely regarded as making the Arrows the world-renowned
aerobatics team they ultimately became and, in recognition of his
contribution, he was received a bar to the AFC he had previously been
awarded for several feats of airmanship.
Ray retired from the RAF in 1971 for a new career in civil aviation,
initially on the Boeing 707 with Lloyd International Airways followed by
seven years with Cathay Pacific, again with the 707, and for two years the
Lockheed L-1011 Tri-Star. In 1979 he was asked to head a private diplomatic
707 company with world-wide operations.
With his son Mark, who was so tragically killed flying an Me109 six years
ago, he built up a vintage warbird collection at Duxford which ultimately
became the renowned 'Old Flying Machine Company.' In addition to achieving
acclaim on the display circuit, the OFMC has numerous movie credits.
Ray was undoubtedly one of the finest display pilots ever, and regarded by
many as the best of the best. Ray displaying his famous Mark IX Spitfire
MH434 was a joy to behold, and a sight which will be sorely missed on the
display circuit.
Far more important, he was a fine man.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
One more thing, you still need to make the "flaps vs. no-flaps"
decision. Given that split flaps have negligible effect on stall speed,
your touch-down speed and landing roll will be approximately the same
regardless of flap position. If you are worried about air, just leave
the flaps up and save the air for the brakes.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 24
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This to me from friends in NZ.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerome van der
Schaar
Subject: Yak-List: In memorial
Ray Hanna
28 August 1928 - 1 December 2005
It was with great sadness that we announce the death of Ray Hanna.
Ray, who was 77 years, joined the Royal Air Force in 1949 having
learned to fly in New Zealand in 1947/48. Following training on the
Prentice, Harvard and Meteor he was fortunate enough to fly such piston
types as the Tempest V, Sea Fury, Balliol and Beaufighter.
His first operational posting was to 79 Squadron, 2ATAF flying FR9
Meteors. In the fifties, he flew nearly all the early British jets including
Vampires, Venoms, Attackers, Sea Hawks, Swifts and Javelins.
Ray first led a team of four Hunters in 1957, in 1963/64 was a member
of the College of Air Warfare Meteor Team and was selected for the
newly-formed Red Arrows as No 3 in 1965.
To the best of my knowledge, he remains the longest serving Leader in
the history of the team.
Ray's leadership is widely regarded as making the Arrows the
world-renowned aerobatics team they ultimately became and, in recognition of
his contribution, he was received a bar to the AFC he had previously been
awarded for several feats of airmanship.
Ray retired from the RAF in 1971 for a new career in civil aviation,
initially on the Boeing 707 with Lloyd International Airways followed by
seven years with Cathay Pacific, again with the 707, and for two years the
Lockheed L-1011 Tri-Star. In 1979 he was asked to head a private diplomatic
707 company with world-wide operations.
With his son Mark, who was so tragically killed flying an Me109 six
years ago, he built up a vintage warbird collection at Duxford which
ultimately became the renowned 'Old Flying Machine Company.' In addition to
achieving acclaim on the display circuit, the OFMC has numerous movie
credits.
Ray was undoubtedly one of the finest display pilots ever, and
regarded by many as the best of the best. Ray displaying his famous Mark IX
Spitfire MH434 was a joy to behold, and a sight which will be sorely missed
on the display circuit.
Far more important, he was a fine man.
Message 25
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Ray Hanna was truly a great; even us Yanks knew of him and his beloved Spit. Right
now I'm headed for my Toby mug to prepare a toast of Bitters.
Hear hear!
Craig Payne
Message 26
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Gentlemen and women,
With your evening drink, face west and give a toast to the passing of a great
aviator.
Tail winds forever,
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerome van der Schaar
Subject: Yak-List: In memorial
Ray Hanna
28 August 1928 - 1 December 2005
It was with great sadness that we announce the death of Ray Hanna.
Ray, who was 77 years, joined the Royal Air Force in 1949 having learned to fly
in New Zealand in 1947/48. Following training on the Prentice, Harvard and Meteor
he was fortunate enough to fly such piston types as the Tempest V, Sea Fury,
Balliol and Beaufighter.
His first operational posting was to 79 Squadron, 2ATAF flying FR9 Meteors. In
the fifties, he flew nearly all the early British jets including Vampires, Venoms,
Attackers, Sea Hawks, Swifts and Javelins.
Ray first led a team of four Hunters in 1957, in 1963/64 was a member of the College
of Air Warfare Meteor Team and was selected for the newly-formed Red Arrows
as No 3 in 1965.
To the best of my knowledge, he remains the longest serving Leader in the history
of the team.
Ray's leadership is widely regarded as making the Arrows the world-renowned aerobatics
team they ultimately became and, in recognition of his contribution, he
was received a bar to the AFC he had previously been awarded for several feats
of airmanship.
Ray retired from the RAF in 1971 for a new career in civil aviation, initially
on the Boeing 707 with Lloyd International Airways followed by seven years with
Cathay Pacific, again with the 707, and for two years the Lockheed L-1011 Tri-Star.
In 1979 he was asked to head a private diplomatic 707 company with world-wide
operations.
With his son Mark, who was so tragically killed flying an Me109 six years ago,
he built up a vintage warbird collection at Duxford which ultimately became the
renowned 'Old Flying Machine Company.' In addition to achieving acclaim on the
display circuit, the OFMC has numerous movie credits.
Ray was undoubtedly one of the finest display pilots ever, and regarded by many
as the best of the best. Ray displaying his famous Mark IX Spitfire MH434 was
a joy to behold, and a sight which will be sorely missed on the display circuit.
Far more important, he was a fine man.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Been down that road 3 times already! The YAK has good directional control
down to ~ 20-25 mph. With impending departure into the over-run, switch to
the lost of braking EP. Shut the motor off and stear straight ahead trying
to split the end of runway lights! At my home drome, the grass over-run of
27 is 500 feet long and the departure end of 09 is 300 feet long. My Yak
stopped with in 50 feet on the grass. That was what I was thinking about
when I wrote what I wrote (that I have a nice level infield and long grass
over-runs at the home drome). Maybe we should just add tial hooks to our
birds and Bak 12's to our repective airdromes to solve this problem. But
then you would have to remember to slow your taxi speed down to keep from
slapping your centerline tank for those that have centerline tanks
installed. Oh, Sorry we're talking Vipers now.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/5/2005 4:36:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on
final
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
>
> > and touched down at my usual touch down point of ~ 200 ft down the RW,
then
> > I have 3300 feet to coast to a stop. The rest is academic until I tow
it to
> > chocks and re-air up the system. Since this EP occured on short final
with
> > the gear extended and 3 green showing.
>
> You are forgetting something: loss of directional control. Without air
> you have no steering on the ground once your rudder becomes
> aerodynamically ineffective (below about 30 kts in the CJ6A). Anyone who
> has had a brake cable break can tell you just how impotent you are going
> to feel. So your plan to just roll to a stop might not be a good one if
> there is any crosswind at all. In that case the aircraft will weather
> vane and drive right off the runway, possibly taking a runway light with
> it and converting a non-event into an incident or perhaps even an
> accident should your gear fold up due to an impact.
>
> This is the reason I suggested popping the emergency bottle on short
> final. Given the rate of air pressure loss in the scenario that should
> give you sufficient pressure for the duration needed to brake the
> aircraft to a stop.
>
> One thing that might be considered is the availability of of a big
> runway somewhere nearby. Here in Sacramento we have both Mather and
> McClellan, ex Air Force bases with long, wide runways. If you know you
> have no air, find a runway aligned as closely as possible with the wind
> and land on the downwind side. As the aircraft slows it will weather
> vane into the wind but a 150' wide runway will still allow you to coast
> to a stop without going off the runway.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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