Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: In memorial (Steve Newing)
2. 04:54 AM - Open Canopy Drag (Craig Payne)
3. 05:22 AM - Re: hoses (Dr Andre Katz)
4. 05:26 AM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Roger Doc Kemp)
5. 06:17 AM - Question of the Week Request (Ira Saligman)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Jon Boede)
7. 07:12 AM - Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final (Brian Lloyd)
8. 07:45 AM - Re: hoses (Richard Basiliere)
9. 07:56 AM - Re: Question of the Week Request (Brian Lloyd)
10. 10:08 AM - Mr. McCoy (John Brooks)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: Mr. McCoy (Steve & Donna Hanshew)
12. 03:40 PM - Tire Blow-outs (Frank Haertlein)
13. 04:05 PM - Re: Tire Blow-outs (Brian Lloyd)
14. 06:14 PM - Re: Gear Schematics (MikSpin@aol.com)
15. 07:43 PM - ARS Staff Opening (Barry Hancock)
16. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Gear Schematics (Ernest Martinez)
17. 08:11 PM - 2005 List of Contributors (Update)... (Matt Dralle)
18. 09:43 PM - Re: Re: Gear Schematics (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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"Taberner, Craig \(C.\)" <ctaberne@ford.com>,
"roy fox" <sionnac@bigpond.com>, "Rob Fox" <robfox@bigpond.net.au>,
"Nigel Dunn" <whaleair@bigpond.com.au>,
"Nick Caudwell" <nick_caudwell@hotmail.com>, <mdalton@qbeaviation.com>,
"Michael Beach Hartwigs Trucks" <mbeach@hartwigs.com.au>,
"Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>,
"Jenny Wickham" <wicko@pac.com.au>,
"james peran" <jperan@ozemail.com.au>,
"Ian Silvester" <ian@fertool.com.au>, <guybourke@hotmail.com>,
"Emma Taberner" <Emma.Taberner@salmat.com.au>, <egon@hinet.net.au>,
"Clive Phillips \(Clive H Phillips\)" <oldplanes@bigpond.com>,
"Bob Attwater" <rattwater@pen.hotkey.net.au>
From all he's friends here in Australia, he will be missed from all corners of
the world.
Steve Newing
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Sapp
To: Yak list
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: FW: Yak-List: In memorial
This to me from friends in NZ.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerome van der Schaar
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 3:09 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: In memorial
Ray Hanna
28 August 1928 - 1 December 2005
It was with great sadness that we announce the death of Ray Hanna.
Ray, who was 77 years, joined the Royal Air Force in 1949 having learned
to fly in New Zealand in 1947/48. Following training on the Prentice, Harvard
and Meteor he was fortunate enough to fly such piston types as the Tempest V,
Sea Fury, Balliol and Beaufighter.
His first operational posting was to 79 Squadron, 2ATAF flying FR9 Meteors.
In the fifties, he flew nearly all the early British jets including Vampires,
Venoms, Attackers, Sea Hawks, Swifts and Javelins.
Ray first led a team of four Hunters in 1957, in 1963/64 was a member of
the College of Air Warfare Meteor Team and was selected for the newly-formed
Red Arrows as No 3 in 1965.
To the best of my knowledge, he remains the longest serving Leader in the
history of the team.
Ray's leadership is widely regarded as making the Arrows the world-renowned
aerobatics team they ultimately became and, in recognition of his contribution,
he was received a bar to the AFC he had previously been awarded for several
feats of airmanship.
Ray retired from the RAF in 1971 for a new career in civil aviation, initially
on the Boeing 707 with Lloyd International Airways followed by seven years
with Cathay Pacific, again with the 707, and for two years the Lockheed L-1011
Tri-Star. In 1979 he was asked to head a private diplomatic 707 company
with world-wide operations.
With his son Mark, who was so tragically killed flying an Me109 six years
ago, he built up a vintage warbird collection at Duxford which ultimately became
the renowned 'Old Flying Machine Company.' In addition to achieving acclaim
on the display circuit, the OFMC has numerous movie credits.
Ray was undoubtedly one of the finest display pilots ever, and regarded
by many as the best of the best. Ray displaying his famous Mark IX Spitfire MH434
was a joy to behold, and a sight which will be sorely missed on the display
circuit.
Far more important, he was a fine man.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Open Canopy Drag |
Ernie wrote:
>> Is there any additional drag induced with the canopies open? Something
> > to think about if you were on a slow final in anticipation of no brakes.
>>
Yes there is drag,,,but how much drag? In my testing, at low speeds, it's hard
to notice from the cockpit but easier if you are flying wing on someone who closes
the open front canopy.
During one of the Sun 60 races, my rear canopy slid back all the way open on takeoff
and remained there though the entire race. I had trouble indicating over
170 knots but still finished with an average of 158 knots (298 kph) from a standing
start. That represents about an 8 -10 knot penalty on the top end. On final
at 80 kts...harder to measure the penalty.
Craig Payne
Message 3
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hello Mark: txs for the reply, I have an electromechanical lever, there is an angle
bracket that goes into a barrel like device which contains a spring which
open the air pressure circuit, attached to it there is an electrical switch that
turns on the shower of sparks, rather crude piece with faucet gasket things
inside that are rather hardened by use, the rubber compounds inside have become
brittle. if you have access to one or two please send them to me it seems
that the sukhoi device fits the system, the rear of the fixture is connected to
the pressure bottle directly and on the side there is an arm that goes to the
main rear engine spider distributor for starting.
merry xmas
andres
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
Hello Andres,
I just got back from a Thanksgiving trip and am getting ready to leave on a Christmas
trip, so I am sorry for not writing back sooner and sorry too that I
will not be around very long to help you.
I am not up to speed on the 55m and am not sure what type of starter system is
used. It SOUNDS like you have the same starter arrangement as is used on a
Sukhoi... is it like a LEVER that you PUSH to allow air into the starter system,
or is it some kind of electrical switch that you push in the cockpit that actuates
a REMOTE air valve?
Please describe in as much detail as you can how your system works... by that
I mean, a description of the parts.
Most YAKS use a starter push button... electrical ..... It sends voltage to
turn on the shower of sparks AND sends power over to a remote air valve (electrically
controlled) that then puts high pressure air up to the starter distributor
on the engine itself.
The Sukhoi's on the other hand, use a lever... and that lever is actually part
of the mechanical valve itself that allows air to go to the starter. On that
same lever is an electrical microswitch that puts power to the shower of sparks.
Can you tell me what you have?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr Andre Katz [mailto:bu131@swbell.net]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: hoses
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net>
hello mark: I have written to you in the past, I have
a yak 55m the main starter valve is shut, the seals
are all gone inside and the small ruber gasket has
disintegrated and sent pieces to the air manifold
luckily we retrieve them all but I am in need of a
starter valve, I have not been able to locate one here
in usa, would like to get another as spare, the parts
look rather flimsy, if not available is there an
alternative I heard swage lok makes a ball valve that
may replace that fitting, it is the electromechanic
part that sets the shower of sparks at the same time
that pressurizes the engine with compressedair
thanks andres
Support Your Lists This Month --
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
In the YAK with the rear canopy open it is draggy. Have had mine pop open more
than once because I had the front open in flight and exceeded ~300 kph. The rear
popped open and I definately noticed a need to carry more power on final. jFront
canopy does not creat near the drag that an open rear does.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final
No drag problems at all. I make a point to land all the time with canopy open.
There are numerous places that one can loose air in these system. I've lost air
(and still do to a lesser extent) though the flap actuator. (The seals are
not perfect I guess). Making sure the flap handle is in neutral "seals" the leak.
I seem to remember in the books somewhere that the minimum pressure to operate
the gear is 25 atom and to have break pressure a minimum of 10 atoms is required.
Pappy
Message 5
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| Subject: | Question of the Week Request |
These questions of the week are great, not only do they keep me thinking
about things but I get the benefit of seeing a lot of ideas which I had not
thought of.
A book and/or summary of these questions and of the answers would make a
great training and review resource. Is there anyone on the list who would
consider keeping a record of these questions for publication (as a download
or page on the RPA website or maybe as a pdf). Another place they might fit
is the RPA hangar talk EP section, with each question being its own topic.
I imagine that if it was non-proprietary, those who keep Yak/CJ web sites
could offer it too, either as a download or as a link.
The format might be the question than a list of some or all of the answers.
(with all the appropriate disclaimers.....)
If anyone thinks such a book or something like it would work, please contact
me offline. The toughest part of this sort of project if finding someone to
step up and make the effort. There are very few things like this, which are
both beneficial and practical to the entire community.
Ira Saligman
o 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@saligman.com> isaligman@saligman.com
Message 6
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<4394C0E1.3010102@lloyd.com> <4394C91B.2000301@lloyd.com>
| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Funny that this came up lately... on final I went to put the flaps down
and was greeted by a substantial hissing noise. Considering my options I
returned the flap handle to the center position, checked the air pressure
(which had dropped 10 ATM) and proceeded.
Futzing with it on the ground did not reproduce the problem. Figures. :-)
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> One more thing, you still need to make the "flaps vs. no-flaps"
> decision. Given that split flaps have negligible effect on stall speed,
> your touch-down speed and landing roll will be approximately the same
> regardless of flap position. If you are worried about air, just leave
> the flaps up and save the air for the brakes.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week: Loss of air pressure on final |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Been down that road 3 times already! The YAK has good directional control
> down to ~ 20-25 mph.
But the Yak has a bigger rudder which will remain effective to a lower
speed than will the CJ6A. Without braking pressure the CJ6A will
experience loss of directional control at a higher airspeed. This is
something that a CJ pilot needs to consider when contemplating a landing
wherein he or she expects to lose braking.
> With impending departure into the over-run, switch to
> the lost of braking EP. Shut the motor off and stear straight ahead trying
> to split the end of runway lights
In the scenario Jeff presented, the pilot has information leading him or
her to expect the possibility of loss of braking. At this point one of
the decisions might be to go to a larger airport where odds are greater
that he/she could keep the airplane on the runway even without brakes. A
long, wide runway aligned with the wind is your best friend in this
scenario.
I too have had three loss of directional control experiences. Two were
for blown tires and one was from a broken brake cable in a CJ. None
resulted in total loss of control but in the case of the blown main
tire, I was unable to keep the aircraft on the runway but had enough
control to guide it between runway lights when departing the side of the
runway.
With the CJ I was lucky to have it happen at Castle. That big runway
gives you a lot of room to get stopped without departing the runway.
Heck, the high-speed turn-off was large enough that I was able to get
the airplane aimed at that and exit the runway before stopping, thus
leaving the runway open for continued operations.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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Sirs;
I've been inside the starter unit to replace rubber "O" rings. It
appears to me similar - in physics - to my -29. Pushing the round
starter button (Yak 55 "longwing") opens the valve to send air to the
engine. At the same time pushing that same button allows for an
electrical connection to close, sending those cute little electron
thingys to the shower of sparks. Hence, if you keep pushing on the
button the engine will run without having the mags on and the air gets
depleted.
If I appear stupid...my Masters work really was in Genetics.
Respectfully, Rick b
>>> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil 12/5/2005 3:09:37 PM >>>
Hello Andres,
I just got back from a Thanksgiving trip and am getting ready to leave
on a Christmas trip, so I am sorry for not writing back sooner and sorry
too that I will not be around very long to help you.
I am not up to speed on the 55m and am not sure what type of starter
system is used. It SOUNDS like you have the same starter arrangement as
is used on a Sukhoi... is it like a LEVER that you PUSH to allow air
into the starter system, or is it some kind of electrical switch that
you push in the cockpit that actuates a REMOTE air valve?
Please describe in as much detail as you can how your system works...
by that I mean, a description of the parts.
Most YAKS use a starter push button... electrical ..... It sends
voltage to turn on the shower of sparks AND sends power over to a remote
air valve (electrically controlled) that then puts high pressure air up
to the starter distributor on the engine itself.
The Sukhoi's on the other hand, use a lever... and that lever is
actually part of the mechanical valve itself that allows air to go to
the starter. On that same lever is an electrical microswitch that puts
power to the shower of sparks.
Can you tell me what you have?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr Andre Katz [mailto:bu131@swbell.net]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: hoses
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net>
hello mark: I have written to you in the past, I have
a yak 55m the main starter valve is shut, the seals
are all gone inside and the small ruber gasket has
disintegrated and sent pieces to the air manifold
luckily we retrieve them all but I am in need of a
starter valve, I have not been able to locate one here
in usa, would like to get another as spare, the parts
look rather flimsy, if not available is there an
alternative I heard swage lok makes a ball valve that
may replace that fitting, it is the electromechanic
part that sets the shower of sparks at the same time
that pressurizes the engine with compressedair
thanks andres
<FONT ="======================================Support Your Lists This
Month --
<FONT FONT Gifts!)Raiser. Click on find out more about Incentive Gifts
provided Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com, Enterprises www.kitlog.com,
and www.homebuilthelp.com!
<FONT p; "
http://www.matronics.com/contribution support!
<FONT FONT Admin.
<FONT ="======================================
<FONT FONT -browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
<FONT FONT
<FONT ="======================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the Week Request |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ira Saligman wrote:
> These questions of the week are great, not only do they keep me thinking
> about things but I get the benefit of seeing a lot of ideas which I had
> not thought of.
>
> A book and/or summary of these questions and of the answers would make
> a great training and review resource. Is there anyone on the list who
> would consider keeping a record of these questions for publication (as a
> download or page on the RPA website or maybe as a pdf). Another place
> they might fit is the RPA hangar talk EP section, with each question
> being its own topic.
I would be happy to produce a compilation of this information. I am sure
that Jeff and I could work together (as we have in the past) to get all
the salient points condensed and stored in one place.
Jeff?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "John Brooks" <orcaspilot@hotmail.com>
Its been a while since I've seen any postings from Mike....Anyone know what
happened to him?
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Donna Hanshew" <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
We live close by but haven't seen him in about 2 years. Last we heard,
he
is in construction and the real estate business.
Don't think he flies anymore, but still has some CJ6's for sale at Ross
County airport here in Ohio.
He still lives in the same place, I think, and is still at the same phone
number if you are trying to get a hold of him
Donna Hanshew
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Brooks
Subject: Yak-List: Mr. McCoy
--> Yak-List message posted by: "John Brooks" <orcaspilot@hotmail.com>
Its been a while since I've seen any postings from Mike....Anyone know what
happened to him?
Message 12
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1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2 Contains possible adult words
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Brian, Yakkers
Brian mentioned in his recent post of having two tire blowouts. I wonder if
this was during landing or takeoff? In either case I'm wondering how much of
this has to do with tire construction.
As some of you probly know and as I've heard, aircraft tire manufacturers
are required to make their tires from natural rubber. I'm not too sure if
this is the truth but if it is then it's probly the FAA behind
it...............
Automotive tires with modern rubber formulations can last 80,000
miles....and this on 3000 - 6000 pound vehicles. I wonder if using natural
rubber as opposed to modern, tough rubber formulations relates to safety?
I'd be willing to bet that tires made with modern rubber formulations not
only last longer but are safer to boot.
Don't you think an aircraft tire of radial construction (it has less rolling
resistance) and constructed of modern formulation rubber would give a tire
that lasts longer, is stronger and can help decrease takeoff distance?
Wouldn't this be a safer tire?
I wonder why the tire manufacturers don't go with modern rubber formulations
if there are so many benefits to be derived from it?
Frank
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tire Blow-outs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Brian, Yakkers
>
> Brian mentioned in his recent post of having two tire blowouts. I wonder if
> this was during landing or takeoff? In either case I'm wondering how much of
> this has to do with tire construction.
Both of my tire problems were with my Comanche using Goodyear tires. The
tires were fine but the inner-tubes failed. One was the nosewheel and
one was the left main. They seemed to be flukes.
> Don't you think an aircraft tire of radial construction (it has less rolling
> resistance) and constructed of modern formulation rubber would give a tire
> that lasts longer, is stronger and can help decrease takeoff distance?
> Wouldn't this be a safer tire?
Both Goodyear and Michelin make radial aircraft tires.
> I wonder why the tire manufacturers don't go with modern rubber formulations
> if there are so many benefits to be derived from it?
Why do you think they haven't? I am certainly under the impression they
are using high-performance composition tread material.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Gear Schematics |
Can someone post some links or contact me off list for a downloadable
schematic of the landing gear system, particularly the normal and emergency air
system for the gear? Thanks!
Message 15
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| Subject: | ARS Staff Opening |
Gang,
Planning for All Red Star 2006 is underway. As this event grows and
becomes more complex, we are looking for someone with an accounting
background to volunteer as Treasurer for ARS.
This person will be responsible for all accounting duties related to
ARS including:
-developing and monitoring a budget
-collecting fees
-paying vendors
-monitoring expenses
-cracking jokes during conference calls
-keeping the girls in line...Lord knows I can't! ;)
The time commitment is perhaps 5 hours a month between now and the
event, 16 hour days for the week of the event, and a few hours for a
couple of months post event.
If you are qualified and would like to be a part of the most enjoyable
team I have ever been a part of (or know someone who is), please
contact me at barry@allredstar.com.
Thanks!
Barry
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star V, May 17-21 2006
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Gear Schematics |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Yak or CJ?
On 12/6/05, MikSpin@aol.com <MikSpin@aol.com> wrote:
> Can someone post some links or contact me off list for a downloadable
> schematic of the landing gear system, particularly the normal and emergency
> air system for the gear? Thanks!
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | 2005 List of Contributors (Update)... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
There seemed to a number of members that were having a problem viewing the List
of Contributors this year, particularly for those using some versions of Outlook
and some web-based email clients. Just to make sure that everyone is properly
acknowledged for their generous support of the Lists this year, I have made
a simple web page with the current contributees as of 12/06/05. This can viewed
here:
http://www.matronics.com/ListOfContributors2005.html
Thank you to everyone that made a contribution this year. The Contribution web
site with all of this year's great gifts is still open for those of you that
would like to show your last minute support!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thanks again to everyone that supported the Lists this year!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email Lists Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Gear Schematics |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
MikSpin@aol.com wrote:
> Can someone post some links or contact me off list for a downloadable
> schematic of the landing gear system, particularly the normal and
> emergency air system for the gear? Thanks!
Yak or CJ?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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