---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/09/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:39 AM - Re: CHINESE HELMETS (Craig Payne) 2. 03:41 AM - Re: Booster Coil (A. Dennis Savarese) 3. 04:35 AM - ADIZ EVERYWHERE? Don't say I didn't tell you so! (Frank Haertlein) 4. 04:38 AM - More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! (Frank Haertlein) 5. 04:54 AM - Re: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! (A. Dennis Savarese) 6. 05:21 AM - Re: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! (Frank Haertlein) 7. 05:58 AM - Rare schematic diagrams for sale. (Fraser, Gus) 8. 06:11 AM - Re: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so (Fraser, Gus) 9. 06:23 AM - New question of the week (Fraser, Gus) 10. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Gear Schematics (Brian Lloyd) 11. 07:16 AM - Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (Brian Lloyd) 12. 07:41 AM - Re: New question of the week (Answer) (Mark Schrick) 13. 07:44 AM - Re: New question of the week (Answer) (Fraser, Gus) 14. 08:18 AM - Re: New question of the week (Kevin Pilling) 15. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: CHINESE HELMETS (Brian Lloyd) 16. 09:50 AM - Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (Walter Lannon) 17. 09:51 AM - Re: New question of the week (Walter Lannon) 18. 10:19 AM - Re: New question of the week (Kevin Pilling) 19. 10:34 AM - Re: New question of the week (Walter Lannon) 20. 12:32 PM - Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (Brian Lloyd) 21. 12:46 PM - Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Craig Payne) 22. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Fraser, Gus) 23. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Craig Payne) 24. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Marcus Bates) 25. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Doug Sapp) 26. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale (Doug Sapp) 27. 06:20 PM - EFIS ONE (Ernest Martinez) 28. 08:48 PM - Vote-vote-vote (cjpilot710@aol.com) 29. 09:35 PM - Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (Walter Lannon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:18 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: Re: CHINESE HELMETS Yeah I saw them too. They use that same helmet for pilots and motorcycle police. 1 size fits all, just adjust a little. I suppose the shell and visor units could be retained and the rest of the helmet replaced with US stuff. Not real hard to do but not worth doing unless the quality is there in the first place. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:49 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil It has a high tension lead from the booster coil directly into the mag cap and only on the left mag. If you were to look at the cap you'll see an additional hole at the front-top of the cap. It has a small hump molded into the cap where the booster coil lead goes into. They come from the factory with a rubber plug in that hole because the mag is obviously interchangeable from side to side. If the mag is installed on the right side, the hole is plugged. The timing on the M9F standard mag by spec is 14.5 to 16 degrees BTDC as measured at the prop flange; 24 degrees at the crank shaft. The M14P gear ratio is .658 to 1. Thus 24 degrees at the crank times .658 is about 15.8 degrees BTC. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil I think we did discuss this Walt. However, with the 52 as I'm sure you know, we start the airplane with the mag switch off if we have the standard M9F mags. All of the 80's models with M14P's have these mags. Once the engine fires from the booster coil, we flip the mag switch on. The additional finger on the mag rotor is as you say, designed to fire a couple of degrees after TDC. The M9-35 mags as used on the TW and M14PF 400HP engines are started with the mag switch in the 1+2 position. These mags do not use a booster coil as they are centrifugal advance mags and timed to AFTER TDC depending on the stamped number under the cover in the boss of the mag. Usually around 5 degrees after TDC. If I'm not mistaken, the CJ is started with the mag switch on, just like the TW and uses a mag that is also centrifugal advance.? Dennis Right on Dennis, the CJ can be started with the mag switch on since, at the start, it fires at approx. 7 degs. (crank) BTDC. Not as close as the TW to TDC but close enough. The M14P with the fixed spark mag by comparison will fire at 23 +/- 1 deg. (crank) at the start so there is a danger of reverse start. The mags should be off until it starts on the booster. Does the 52 have an HT lead from the start booster to one mag? Or a box in the primary circuit? Cheers; Walt ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:39 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: ADIZ EVERYWHERE? Don't say I didn't tell you so! 0.33 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark 9/11 COMMISSION: ADIZs EVERYWHERE? Perhaps. In the 9/11 Commission's first "report card," it gives the government a "B-" for homeland airspace defense. The commission notes that there is "no overarching plan to secure airspace outside the National Capital region." "That's most ominous," said Andy Cebula, AOPA senior vice president of government and technical affairs, "because what 'secures' the National Capital region is the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ)! I'm not sure which is more distressing--that the commission thinks the Washington, D.C., ADIZ works, or that they think the model should be applied elsewhere." This makes it all the more critical that pilots tell the government that they don't want the Washington, D.C., ADIZ to continue and that they definitely don't want an ADIZ in their airspace. In its original report, the 9/11 Commission said that NORAD-- the North American Aerospace Defense Command--focused only on threats from outside the United States, even though terrorists might "use planes as missiles." The report card, issued Monday, adds that "no single agency currently leads the interagency response to airspace violations." "What we have seen before with these kinds of reports is a knee-jerk reaction to do something--anything--to prove that you're doing something," said Cebula. "And the easiest thing for them to do would be to create more ADIZs." But ADIZs would be the wrong thing to do, according to AOPA. The ill-conceived, poorly executed approach unfairly penalizes general aviation, damages small businesses, increases transportation inefficiencies, and adds additional non-safety-related burdens upon already over-tasked air traffic controllers. See AOPA's Member Action Center: Operation ADIZ ( http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/ ). ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:13 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! 0.33 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark KENTUCKY LAWMAKER THREATENS STATE'S AIRSPACE Don't think an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) could be imposed outside of Washington, D.C.? Well, former Kentucky governor and current state Sen. Julian Carroll is sponsoring a resolution ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/06rs/SR1/bill.doc ), requesting the FAA to examine flight paths to Frankfort's Capital City Airport and to restrict air traffic around the grounds of the state's Capitol. Carroll was interviewed recently by a Frankfort radio station about the resolution and said he believes that restricting the airspace is a homeland security issue because terrorists may consider acts outside major cities. Listen online ( http://www.whas.com/timages/page/media/airspace_whas1.wav ). AOPA Southeastern Regional Representative Bob Minter is marshalling forces to defeat the resolution when the legislature reconvenes January 3. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:54 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! MessageYou're right on Frank. That's precisely what I cited in my letter to the FAA. If it passes, ie: permanent ADIZ, it sets the precedent for politicians to say "Hey, my city could be a target. So why can't we have an ADIZ around my city?" Read - Chicago. Then it's on and on from there. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Haertlein To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:37 AM Subject: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! KENTUCKY LAWMAKER THREATENS STATE'S AIRSPACE Don't think an air defense identification zone (ADIZ) could be imposed outside of Washington, D.C.? Well, former Kentucky governor and current state Sen. Julian Carroll is sponsoring a resolution ( http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/06rs/SR1/bill.doc ), requesting the FAA to examine flight paths to Frankfort's Capital City Airport and to restrict air traffic around the grounds of the state's Capitol. Carroll was interviewed recently by a Frankfort radio station about the resolution and said he believes that restricting the airspace is a homeland security issue because terrorists may consider acts outside major cities. Listen online ( http://www.whas.com/timages/page/media/airspace_whas1.wav ). AOPA Southeastern Regional Representative Bob Minter is marshalling forces to defeat the resolution when the legislature reconvenes January 3. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:49 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! Thanks, Dennis As I keep telling my fellow Yakkers "This loss of freedoms goes wayyy beyond just flying. It gets into almost every aspect of our lives. One day we will wake up and say "Where have all our freedoms gone". We really do have to be vigilant. Let's start by denying any more entry into this country of peoples from muslim countries. Hell, why stop there?.......deport em' all! Frank DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:56 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: Yak-List: Rare schematic diagrams for sale. OK folks I have some stuff for sale they are a complete set of the training diagrams for a Yak 52 (aircrew and ground crew) I have no idea what they are worth so I am putting them up for bid. see http://www.notasukhoi.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?mode=view &album=/Posters Please send bids directly to fraseg@comcast.net with a subject BID I would rather sell them to someone that can get them re-produced and sell copies on because they are more useful than a useful thing from useful city. Gus OK folks I have some stuff for sale they are a complete set of the training diagrams for a Yak 52 (aircrew and ground crew) I have no idea what they are worth so I am putting them up for bid. see http://www.notasukhoi.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?modeviewalbum/Posters Please send bids directly to fraseg@comcast.net with a subject BID I would rather sell them to someone that can get them re-produced and sell copies on because they are more useful than a useful thing from useful city. Gus ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:34 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" ! Subject: RE: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so ! DO NOT ARCHIVE What really busts my grapes about all this is that 1. The only type of aircraft to be successfully used in an act of terror, was big iron. 2. The only aircraft that will be allowed to fly into and out of these proposed areas, big iron. The lunatics are really in control of the asylum now. You have to understand that politicians don't do anything effective they just do things that have the appearance, to the majority, of being effective that is how they get re-elected. Remember when you were in the service, if you want a rest, appear to be busy. For politicians, and other celebrities, as I regard politicians as movie stars that don't give autographs, an ADIZ will become the new thing to have, an accessory and a status symbol. What better in the pissing stakes that saying that my ADIZ is bigger than your ADIZ or I can keep my ADIZ up longer than you can. Truth is, things are going to get worse before they get better. Please if you didn't write yet do it now, PLEASE...... Gus Platos republic "Anarchy is the only true democracy. Anarchy is not sustainable therefore there can be no long term democracy." Ah! the advantages of a classical education. _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein Subject: RE: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! Thanks, Dennis As I keep telling my fellow Yakkers "This loss of freedoms goes wayyy beyond just flying. It gets into almost every aspect of our lives. One day we will wake up and say "Where have all our freedoms gone". We really do have to be vigilant. Let's start by denying any more entry into this country of peoples from muslim countries. Hell, why stop there?.......deport em' all! Frank DO NOT ARCHIVE Message DO NOT ARCHIVE What really busts my grapes about all this is that 1. The only type of aircraft to be successfully used in an act of terror, was big iron. 2. The only aircraft that will be allowed to fly into and out of these proposed areas, big iron. The lunatics are really in control of the asylum now. You have to understand that politicians don't do anything effective they just do things that have the appearance, to the majority, of being effective that is how they get re-elected. Remember when you were in the service, if you want a rest, appear to be busy. For politicians, and other celebrities, as I regard politicians as movie stars that don't give autographs, an ADIZ will become the new thing to have, an accessory and a status symbol. What better in the pissing stakes that saying that my ADIZ is bigger than your ADIZ or I can keep my ADIZ up longer than you can. Truth is, things are going to get worse before they get better. Please if you didn't write yet do it now, PLEASE...... Gus Platos republic "Anarchy is the only true democracy. Anarchy is not sustainable therefore there can be no long term democracy."Ah!theadvantagesofaclassicaleducation. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: More ADIZ to come??? Don't say I didn't tell you so! Thanks, Dennis As I keep telling my fellow Yakkers "This loss of freedoms goes wayyy beyond just flying. It gets into almost every aspect of our lives. One day we will wake up andsay "Where have allour freedoms gone". We really do have to be vigilant. Let's start by denying any more entry into this country of peoples from muslim countries. Hell, why stop there?.......deport em' all! Frank DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:52 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> New question of the week What is this ? Gus strangeYak.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:29 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Gear Schematics --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Doug Sapp wrote: > Gus, > Don't have your email and the "new and improved" Yak list does not list > it any longer. Please contact me off list or give me a call at > 509-826-4610. If you want to give someone your email address you can try putting it in the body of the message or writing it out. The software might clobber: foo@bar.com but it will certainly pass: foo at bar dot com. BTW, notice that I have made that change in my email address in my signature box below. That makes it less likely that a spammer will pick up my email address from the list postings. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:20 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote: > Walt, can you explain the difference to me someday when you have time? Dennis and Walt have done a pretty good job of describing it but I do want to add my two cents worth. The booster coil system used on the Yak-52 and CJ6A are almost like the old Ford Model-T ignition system. When you apply battery power to the booster coil (by pressing the start button) it provides continuous high voltage at its output. (A buzzer-like vibrating contact makes and breaks the battery voltage going into the primary of the booster coil so that you get a continuous spark at the output of the secondary.) The output of the secondary winding of the booster coil is then coupled to the retard contact in the HV distributor in the left magneto. The rest of the magneto, e.g. magnets, points, coil, etc., do not take part in the starting process. Unlike the Model-T there are no points to turn the battery voltage on and off for timing. The timing after TDC is provided by the position of the extra retard high voltage contact on the distributor cap and rotor. This timing is very, very sloppy but is sufficient to get the engine to fire and turn of its own accord. Once it does that and turns fast enough, the magneto takes over firing the plugs and setting the timing. The Yak-52 mags are fixed advance while the mags on the CJ6A use centrifugal advance. This means that there is very little chance that the engine will fire before TDC and kick backwards in the CJ6A and so you can start with the mags on. There are some similarities between the booster coil system and the "shower of sparks" system in that they both use a vibrator to make and break the battery voltage going to the primary of the magneto thus delivering a continuous spark and not just a single, momentary spark. (This is why people get them confused.) In the Bendix "Shower of Sparks" system (Slick has their own version but it works the same way) there is a second set of points in the mag called the retard breaker. These points are set to open at or slightly after TDC. When they open they allow the interrupted battery voltage from the vibrator to reach the primary coil of the magneto. The magneto coil then steps up this voltage to produce a continuous spark at the output of the magneto coil's secondary. With "Shower of Sparks" there is no extra coil and no extra high-voltage wiring. To make all this work with the Bendix or Slick mag there is a little relay box that temporarily switches around the primary wiring of your magnetos. When you engage the "start" function, i.e. push the start button or turn the key to to the start position, a relay is energized that does the following: 1. it grounds the p-lead of the right mag so it won't fire at all; 2. it connects the battery voltage to the vibrator; 3. it connects the vibrator to the retard breaker. Slick's system "SlickSTART" just replaces the venerable vibrator with a solid-state circuit that accomplishes the same thing and produces yet a hotter spark. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:07 AM PST US From: "Mark Schrick" Subject: RE: Yak-List: New question of the week (Answer) That is a 1978 Yak 50 converted into a LA-5 look-alike replica airplane converted in Lithuania. Looks good with the turtle deck on the Yak 50. It is for sale currently in Europe. Did I win? Do I get a cookie? Mark "SHREK" Schrick YAK DRIVER, LLC Aerostar Dealer of (New) Yak 52TW Fully Restored USED Yak 52's "We meet anyone's budget!!! REDSTAR Pilot Assoc. Active member 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, Ca 95120-1848 Hm/Fax 408-323-5150 Cell 408-391-6664 Email schrick@pacbell.net Website www.YAKDRIVER.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:52 AM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: RE: Yak-List: New question of the week (Answer) Yea, go Mark ! Your right it does look really nice plus possibly room for a px behind the pilot ? I tell you what I will give you another Cuban at OSH :)) Did the prop arrive ? Gus _____ From: Mark Schrick [mailto:schrick@pacbell.net] Subject: RE: Yak-List: New question of the week (Answer) That is a 1978 Yak 50 converted into a LA-5 look-alike replica airplane converted in Lithuania. Looks good with the turtle deck on the Yak 50. It is for sale currently in Europe. Did I win? Do I get a cookie? Mark "SHREK" Schrick YAK DRIVER, LLC Aerostar Dealer of (New) Yak 52TW Fully Restored USED Yak 52's "We meet anyone's budget!!! REDSTAR Pilot Assoc. Active member 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, Ca 95120-1848 Hm/Fax 408-323-5150 Cell 408-391-6664 Email schrick@pacbell.net Website www.YAKDRIVER.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> New question of the week Yea, go Mark ! Your right it does look really nice plus possibly room for a px behind the pilot ? I tell you what I will give you another Cuban at OSH :)) Did the prop arrive ? Gus From: Mark Schrick [mailto:schrick@pacbell.net] AM Gus Subject: RE: Yak-List: New question of the week (Answer) That is a 1978 Yak 50 converted into a LA-5 look-alike replica airplane converted in Lithuania. Looks good with the turtle deck on the Yak 50. It is for sale currently in Europe. Did I win? Do I get a cookie? Mark "SHREK" Schrick YAK DRIVER, LLC Aerostar Dealer of (New)Yak 52TW Fully Restored USED Yak 52's "We meet anyone's budget!!! REDSTAR Pilot Assoc. Active member 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, Ca 95120-1848 Hm/Fax 408-323-5150 Cell 408-391-6664 Emailschrick@pacbell.net Website www.YAKDRIVER.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:23 AM To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week

What is this ?

Gus

strangeYak.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:11 AM PST US From: "Kevin Pilling" Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week New question of the week's probably a Lavochkin look-a-like similar to these ..I'd be interested to know the frame number as the 5 in this batch are sequential numbers. kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser, Gus To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:17 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CHINESE HELMETS --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Craig Payne wrote: > Yeah I saw them too. They use that same helmet for pilots and motorcycle > police. 1 size fits all, just adjust a little. I suppose the shell and > visor units could be retained and the rest of the helmet replaced with > US stuff. Not real hard to do but not worth doing unless the quality is > there in the first place. Dennis Nickson bought one and showed it to me. It looks OK. The quality is pretty good but the shell is just a bit light. There is no lock on the visor to keep it either up or down. You will have to come up with your own mic and earspeakers. The Oregon Aero fit-kit should work too. My guess is that you could save a couple hundred bucks going with this helmet over some place like Flight Suits Ltd but you are going to have to do a lot more work to make it usable. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:01 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" Well done Brian, Thanks for filling in the operational details. Two points though need some clarification -- > There are some similarities between the booster coil system and the > "shower of sparks" system in that they both use a vibrator to make and > break the battery voltage going to the primary of the magneto thus > delivering a continuous spark and not just a single, momentary spark. > (This is why people get them confused.) The similarity is only that they both use a vibrator. The function of the vibrator is quite different. The shower of sparks vibrator controls the battery voltage to the MAGNETO primary while the boost coil vibrator controls voltage to the BOOST COIL primary > In the Bendix "Shower of Sparks" system (Slick has their own version but > it works the same way) there is a second set of points in the mag called > the retard breaker. These points are set to open at or slightly after TDC. > When they open they allow the interrupted battery voltage from the > vibrator to reach the primary coil of the magneto. The magneto coil then > steps up this voltage to produce a continuous spark at the output of the > magneto coil's secondary. With "Shower of Sparks" there is no extra coil > and no extra high-voltage wiring. The second set of points would have been a later re-design of Bendix magnetos. None of the radial engines I am familiar with had mags. with a retard point set, but my direct experience only goes to the R2000 era. Maybe they were on the R2800?? I don't remember. Or were they a later flat engine mag?? In any case the magnetos on our engines do not have this facility. The retard point set is the fix for the shower of sparks weak point - the fact that it is a "shower of sparks". Cheers; Walt ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:52 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week New question of the weekKevin, Where are they, I wan't one Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Pilling To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week 's probably a Lavochkin look-a-like similar to these ..I'd be interested to know the frame number as the 5 in this batch are sequential numbers. kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser, Gus To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:15 AM PST US From: "Kevin Pilling" Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week New question of the weekSorry to say you're too late. I have one, two further are locally based in the UK, a fourth is in Texas and just at this time I'm not sure the whereabouts of the of the 5th example........they are all 1985 vintage and this one is the Texas one....snapped whilst in the UK before shipping to the US showing perfectly how the Mosfilm Studio mocked them up as Lagg 5's Regards kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week Kevin, Where are they, I wan't one Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Pilling To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week 's probably a Lavochkin look-a-like similar to these ..I'd be interested to know the frame number as the 5 in this batch are sequential numbers. kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser, Gus To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus <> ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:56 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week New question of the weekThanks Kevin; Your first photo showed real Lavochkins in storage. I wan't one of those! Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Pilling To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week Sorry to say you're too late. I have one, two further are locally based in the UK, a fourth is in Texas and just at this time I'm not sure the whereabouts of the of the 5th example........they are all 1985 vintage and this one is the Texas one....snapped whilst in the UK before shipping to the US showing perfectly how the Mosfilm Studio mocked them up as Lagg 5's Regards kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week Kevin, Where are they, I wan't one Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Pilling To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: New question of the week 's probably a Lavochkin look-a-like similar to these ..I'd be interested to know the frame number as the 5 in this batch are sequential numbers. kp ----- Original Message ----- From: Fraser, Gus To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Yak-List: New question of the week What is this ? Gus ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:54 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Walter Lannon wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" > > Well done Brian, Thanks for filling in the operational details. Two > points though need some clarification -- > > >> There are some similarities between the booster coil system and the >> "shower of sparks" system in that they both use a vibrator to make and >> break the battery voltage going to the primary of the magneto thus >> delivering a continuous spark and not just a single, momentary spark. >> (This is why people get them confused.) > > > The similarity is only that they both use a vibrator. The function of > the vibrator is quite different. The shower of sparks vibrator controls > the battery voltage to the MAGNETO primary while the boost coil vibrator > controls voltage to the BOOST COIL primary Yeah, that was a typo. The boost coil is completely separate from the mag and as I said in the original post, other than the HV distributor, none of the other components in the mag are used with the boost-coil approach. My bad. I caught that after I hit the send button. >> In the Bendix "Shower of Sparks" system (Slick has their own version >> but it works the same way) there is a second set of points in the mag >> called the retard breaker. These points are set to open at or slightly >> after TDC. When they open they allow the interrupted battery voltage >> from the vibrator to reach the primary coil of the magneto. The >> magneto coil then steps up this voltage to produce a continuous spark >> at the output of the magneto coil's secondary. With "Shower of Sparks" >> there is no extra coil and no extra high-voltage wiring. > > The second set of points would have been a later re-design of Bendix > magnetos. None of the radial engines I am familiar with had mags. with a > retard point set, but my direct experience only goes to the R2000 era. > Maybe they were on the R2800?? I don't remember. Or were they a later > flat engine mag?? They are certainly on flat engines. The current crop of Bendix and Slick mags have a separate "retard" breaker point that is used to time the "shower of sparks" so that it fires at or after TDC. The retard breaker mag doesn't have impulse couplings either which makes it simpler and more reliable. The only problem you have with the "shower of sparks" system is that you *must* have battery voltage to get the engine to start. It will not start by hand propping unless there is battery voltage to the SoS electrics. So you could hand-prop if there were a problem with the starter motor but not if you have a dead battery. > In any case the magnetos on our engines do not have this facility. > The retard point set is the fix for the shower of sparks weak point - > the fact that it is a "shower of sparks". Right. If our mags had a retard breaker to time the boost coil, the engine would start and run more smoothly on the start circuit. -- Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:43 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Of course these "rare" drawings are also available from Jim Kimball on CD. I believe a set of 30 drawings for around $70. Several years ago the full size posters were available as a set. Priced anywhere from $22 to $80, depending on the year and source. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:49 PM PST US From: "Fraser, Gus" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Fraid not you are thinking about the M14P diagrams these aint them. Those are available as posters from snaproll aerobatics These are Yak 52 systems diagrams not the same beast at all. Wrong for the first time ever Craig, can't believe it. Gus _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Of course these "rare" drawings are also available from Jim Kimball on CD. I believe a set of 30 drawings for around $70. Several years ago the full size posters were available as a set. Priced anywhere from $22 to $80, depending on the year and source. Craig Payne Fraid not you are thinking about the M14P diagrams these aint them. Those are available as posters from snaproll aerobatics These are Yak 52 systems diagrams not the same beast at all. Wrong for the first time ever Craig, can't believe it. Gus From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne yak-list Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Of course these "rare" drawings are also available from Jim Kimball on CD. I believe a set of 30 drawings for around $70. Several years ago the full size posters were available as a set. Priced anywhere from $22 to $80, depending on the year and source. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:21 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale OK, I drilled down on your site pix and now I see. Wrong I am. Question now is why would *anyone* want more from the Yak-52 than the engine and prop?? Just for jollies on a cold and rainy evening (mid-60's), I ran through my collection of "Yak" newsletters back to Vol. 1, No. 1 in 1993. I must say not much is new lately for the yak. For the CJ, lots, Skunkworks are in full blossom all over CJ land. There was even an early version 52-TW was put together by Les Crowder over 10 years ago; retractable, tailwheel, long range tanks and improved supercharger blower. Whatever happened to it? Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:06 PM PST US From: "Marcus Bates" Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: yak-list Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale OK, I drilled down on your site pix and now I see. Wrong I am. Question now is why would *anyone* want more from the Yak-52 than the engine and prop?? Just for jollies on a cold and rainy evening (mid-60's), I ran through my collection of "Yak" newsletters back to Vol. 1, No. 1 in 1993. I must say not much is new lately for the yak. For the CJ, lots, Skunkworks are in full blossom all over CJ land. There was even an early version 52-TW was put together by Les Crowder over 10 years ago; retractable, tailwheel, long range tanks and improved supercharger blower. Whatever happened to it? Craig Payne Craig....it was never finished.....it was still sitting in a corner of his hangar unfinished when he died......I gave him some CJ-6 retract stuff to work with, but it never went beyond the "discussion" stage. Marcus Bates, Jr. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:51 PM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Craig, Les Crowder past away about 6 months ago, last I heard Les's "X" plane was still sitting in the hanger. I sold him all the retract parts and pcs from the CJ6. It sure looked cool, it had a horrendous deck angle, so it looked like a old Russian fighter. That's about all I know. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 4:53 PM To: yak-list Subject: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale OK, I drilled down on your site pix and now I see. Wrong I am. Question now is why would *anyone* want more from the Yak-52 than the engine and prop?? Just for jollies on a cold and rainy evening (mid-60's), I ran through my collection of "Yak" newsletters back to Vol. 1, No. 1 in 1993. I must say not much is new lately for the yak. For the CJ, lots, Skunkworks are in full blossom all over CJ land. There was even an early version 52-TW was put together by Les Crowder over 10 years ago; retractable, tailwheel, long range tanks and improved supercharger blower. Whatever happened to it? Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:57 PM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale Marcus, Are your sure? I think I have a photo some where that he sent me, and as I recall it was sitting on the CJ gear. Maybe it was just "mocked up", but it sure looked good. But your closer to it than I am so you should know the real poop. Please contact me off list when you get time (another matter). Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marcus Bates Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:15 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: yak-list Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Yak-List: RE: RE: Re: Rare schematic diagrams for sale OK, I drilled down on your site pix and now I see. Wrong I am. Question now is why would *anyone* want more from the Yak-52 than the engine and prop?? Just for jollies on a cold and rainy evening (mid-60's), I ran through my collection of "Yak" newsletters back to Vol. 1, No. 1 in 1993. I must say not much is new lately for the yak. For the CJ, lots, Skunkworks are in full blossom all over CJ land. There was even an early version 52-TW was put together by Les Crowder over 10 years ago; retractable, tailwheel, long range tanks and improved supercharger blower. Whatever happened to it? Craig Payne Craig....it was never finished.....it was still sitting in a corner of his hangar unfinished when he died......I gave him some CJ-6 retract stuff to work with, but it never went beyond the "discussion" stage. Marcus Bates, Jr. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:44 PM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Yak-List: EFIS ONE --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez I have a friend here who has built an RV and unfortunately bought a Blue Mountain Aviation EFIS One. After sending the unit back to the factory about 5 times for problems, he has had enough and has yanked the unit. It has never worked. BMA refuses to refund his money. I have read threads from several people who have had similar incidents with BMA, and I am requesting on behalf of my friend, your stories with BMA. He hopes that some documented stories similar to his could help him in his fight with BMA. Thanks in advance Ernie ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:50 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: Vote-vote-vote Troops. This is for all you RPA members in the SE. Harry (Bam Bam) Dutson assigned me the as "AK" to get to you guys to vote. Check out the new proposed By-Laws on the RPA (_www.Flyredstar.org_ (http://www.Flyredstar.org) ) web site. Than get your butts in gear and vote. We are nearing the end of the voting period (12/31) and so far the votes slow coming in. We really need as an association to know where we are going and to do that we know to know if you guys & gals will approve or disapprove the proposed by-laws. It only takes a short time to vote over the web site. PLEASE do not make me call you indiviually. Now here is my political spiel. The BoD put a lot of effort into formulating these by-laws. There was differences of opinions on how the association should be run but it was in the details not in the idea that RPA will benefit from the regional representative concept. That is what most of the change is about. We really need your decision on this. I am asking you to vote FOR it BUT I want you to read it though it and hopefully you will agree. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:37 PM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" Last word on "Boost coil vs Shower of Sparks"??? Would the Yak community advise what system the various models are using? My Harvard 4 (and I believe the T6G) use a shower of sparks system. The Harvard 2 and all other T6 variants use a boost coil. I have the latest and best of the R1340 Bendix mags on mine (SB9RN-4) and have the shower of sparks totally disconnected. It starts fine in any temperature but with the s-o-s connected will go backwards in a heartbeat. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lloyd" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > > Walter Lannon wrote: >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" >> >> Well done Brian, Thanks for filling in the operational details. Two >> points though need some clarification -- >> >> >>> There are some similarities between the booster coil system and the >>> "shower of sparks" system in that they both use a vibrator to make and >>> break the battery voltage going to the primary of the magneto thus >>> delivering a continuous spark and not just a single, momentary spark. >>> (This is why people get them confused.) >> >> >> The similarity is only that they both use a vibrator. The function of the >> vibrator is quite different. The shower of sparks vibrator controls the >> battery voltage to the MAGNETO primary while the boost coil vibrator >> controls voltage to the BOOST COIL primary > > Yeah, that was a typo. The boost coil is completely separate from the > mag and as I said in the original post, other than the HV distributor, > none of the other components in the mag are used with the boost-coil > approach. My bad. I caught that after I hit the send button. > >>> In the Bendix "Shower of Sparks" system (Slick has their own version but >>> it works the same way) there is a second set of points in the mag called >>> the retard breaker. These points are set to open at or slightly after >>> TDC. When they open they allow the interrupted battery voltage from the >>> vibrator to reach the primary coil of the magneto. The magneto coil then >>> steps up this voltage to produce a continuous spark at the output of the >>> magneto coil's secondary. With "Shower of Sparks" there is no extra coil >>> and no extra high-voltage wiring. >> >> The second set of points would have been a later re-design of Bendix >> magnetos. None of the radial engines I am familiar with had mags. with a >> retard point set, but my direct experience only goes to the R2000 era. >> Maybe they were on the R2800?? I don't remember. Or were they a later >> flat engine mag?? > > They are certainly on flat engines. The current crop of Bendix and Slick > mags have a separate "retard" breaker point that is used to time the > "shower of sparks" so that it fires at or after TDC. The retard breaker > mag doesn't have impulse couplings either which makes it simpler and > more reliable. The only problem you have with the "shower of sparks" > system is that you *must* have battery voltage to get the engine to > start. It will not start by hand propping unless there is battery > voltage to the SoS electrics. So you could hand-prop if there were a > problem with the starter motor but not if you have a dead battery. > >> In any case the magnetos on our engines do not have this facility. >> The retard point set is the fix for the shower of sparks weak point - the >> fact that it is a "shower of sparks". > > Right. If our mags had a retard breaker to time the boost coil, the > engine would start and run more smoothly on the start circuit. > > -- > Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr. > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > > >