Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:14 AM - Re: Brand New RPA T-shirt (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: scoop to fix exhaust smell (ron wasson)
5. 07:01 AM - Re: Fuels (Brian Lloyd)
6. 07:36 AM - Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Stephen Fox)
8. 08:15 AM - Re: Oil Tank (DaBear)
9. 08:20 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Stephen Fox)
10. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Fuels (Craig Payne)
11. 09:11 AM - Re-garding oil tank (NapeOne@aol.com)
12. 09:17 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
13. 09:36 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Roger Doc Kemp)
14. 10:09 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Doug Sapp)
15. 10:44 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Herb Coussons)
16. 11:31 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Roger Doc Kemp)
17. 12:14 PM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
18. 12:21 PM - Re: FW: Brand New RPA T-shirt (ByronMFox@aol.com)
19. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil Tank (YakL1@aol.com)
20. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Gas leak (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
21. 02:54 PM - Re: Booster Coil (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
22. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Gas leak (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
23. 03:04 PM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
24. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Oil Tank (Craig Payne)
25. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
26. 06:26 PM - Re: Oil Tank (KingCJ6@aol.com)
27. 06:41 PM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
28. 08:15 PM - CJ6 Placards (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Most assuredly, it is a serious and complimentary comment Brian.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> With your vast knowledge, could you design an electronic ignition that
>> we might take to some small job shop manufacturer to have made for our
>> engines?
>
> I am going to assume this is a serious comment and go from there.
>
> I could probably handle the electronics but the mechanical parts are
> pretty substantial. I would probably go to someone like Klaus Savier who
> has a nice system that is popular for the 4-cyl Lycs used in RVs. He
> already has the optical pick-off that drops in place of the standard
> Bendix or Slick mag. All you need to do at that point is come up with
> the electronics. He has done the research to know what works. It would
> take me a fair bit of time to get to where he was years ago.
>
> BTW, he uses a coil-per-cylinder approach as I recall. That would be 9
> coils for our engines.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
When do you expect to have the first prototype ready? -)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil vs. Shower of Sparks
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> With your vast knowledge, could you design an electronic ignition that
>> we might take to some small job shop manufacturer to have made for our
>> engines?
>
> I am going to assume this is a serious comment and go from there.
>
> I could probably handle the electronics but the mechanical parts are
> pretty substantial. I would probably go to someone like Klaus Savier who
> has a nice system that is popular for the 4-cyl Lycs used in RVs. He
> already has the optical pick-off that drops in place of the standard
> Bendix or Slick mag. All you need to do at that point is come up with
> the electronics. He has done the research to know what works. It would
> take me a fair bit of time to get to where he was years ago.
>
> BTW, he uses a coil-per-cylinder approach as I recall. That would be 9
> coils for our engines.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Brand New RPA T-shirt |
Looks great Blitz. Looking forward to seeing the Yak 52 design.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Brand New RPA T-shirt
Gentlemen:
Attached is the artwork by famous R. T. Foster for the first of a series of new
aircraft specific T-shirts designs for the RPA On-Line Store. This is the "NANCHANG
DRAGON" to be available in "Stone Blue" on-line within a couple of weeks.
Stay tuned. I'll keep you posted
Merry Christmas & Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
RPA On-line Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
Home 415-380-0907 Eves
Cell 415-307-2405 Days
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: scoop to fix exhaust smell |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ron wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
Brian
It only seems to work with the front vent open and the side vent
closed. It is great setup with the front vent. Side vent with this
scoop seems to make it worse. It is like it gives the air somewhere
to go.
ron wasson
ronwasson@mindspring.com
On Dec 12, 2005, at 9:51 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> Fraser, Gus wrote:
>> Be careful, *I no nothing about the internal plumbing of a CJ* but
>> think about the vents on the header tank. The last thing you want
>> is to run out of gas in the header tank because you have changed
>> the relative pressure dynamics around the vents and by some fluke
>> you are applying positive pressure to the header tank vent, enough
>> to blow back the fuel to the mains, great for fuel efficiency,
>> crap for keeping the motor running.
>
> There is a single vent the serves the two wing tanks and the header
> tank. It comes off the belly which is a high-pressure area of the
> airframe. Changing the air pressure in the fuselage is not likely
> to have an effect on proper fuel flow.
>
> But this does bring up something to consider. At first I thought
> this was a good idea but then I realized that the problem comes
> from the fact that the fuse is already a low-pressure area. The
> only way this will work to decrease CO in the cockpit is to
> increase the inflow of fresh air otherwise the reverse scoop will
> only cause the pressure to be lower thus drawing in even more CO
> from the exhaust.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
> things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> It could be true that he has a loss of performance using mogas. If it is
> mixed with alcohol you will have less energy per gallon than with pure gas.
That is true but I don't think you would see the kind of drop in power
that Craig identified. As I recall, ethanol has about 20% less energy
per gallon than gasoline. (I am going from memory here and don't recall
the exact number.) If the alcohol is mixed to make up only 10% of the
fuel, i.e. 90% gasoline and 10% alcohol, the total loss in output should
be only 2% (20% x 10% = 2%). His numbers indicated a substantially
greater loss in output.
And then there is the point that he also said that the fuel he was using
in FL doesn't have alcohol.
But it is possible to actually get more power with alcohol at the
expense of higher fuel flow. The limiting factor is how much oxygen you
can get through the induction system and ethanol requires less O2 to
form a stochastic (optimum) mixture than does gasoline. This allows you
to flow more fuel per volume of air. Also, alcohol has huge detonation
margins thus allowing for much higher compression. These are why the
automobile racers often use alcohol as their fuel instead of gasoline.
But unless your carb is adjusted to flow more fuel, you will have an
over-lean mixture with alcohol.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 6
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I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down into
the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting out.
Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too big,
must go down around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil tank.
I'd like to hear an easier solution than removing the tank.
Ernie
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> solution than removing the tank.
>
> Ernie
As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
hours of frustration, though.
Steve
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
So a similar thing happened to me on the morning I was to head to
Oshkosh. I tried the "claw" to grab it, but it didn't work. The best
thing was to remove the tank, turn upside down and insure that items
were out of the tank prior to installation. Good news, I got to clean
out the oil tank and change most of my oil prior to heading to Osh.
:-( It took about 30 min to remove the tank and find the offending
piece and about 45 min to reinstall the tank. Having messed with the
Claw for over an hour, I'll not waste my time trying the claw should it
happen in the future.
Dabear
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down
> into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to
> getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole cause
> the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf on the
> upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier solution than
> removing the tank.
>
> Ernie
Message 9
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On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:14 AM, DaBear wrote:
> So a similar thing happened to me on the morning I was to head to
> Oshkosh. I tried the "claw" to grab it, but it didn't work. The best
> thing was to remove the tank, turn upside down and insure that items
> were out of the tank prior to installation. Good news, I got to clean
> out the oil tank and change most of my oil prior to heading to Osh.
> :-( It took about 30 min to remove the tank and find the offending
> piece and about 45 min to reinstall the tank. Having messed with the
> Claw for over an hour, I'll not waste my time trying the claw
> should it
> happen in the future.
>
> Dabear
So my visualizing hours of frustration was at least correct :)
Steve
Message 10
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Brian wrote:
>
> The limiting factor is how much oxygen you can get through the induction system
> and ethanol requires less O2 to form a stochastic (optimum) mixture than does
> gasoline. This allows you to flow more fuel per volume of air. Also, alcohol
has huge
> detonation margins thus allowing for much higher compression.
>
Right you are Brian. During the end of WW-II in Europe, the Allies saw a significant
increase in German aircraft performance at higher altitudes; from the same
model A/C they were used to fighting. Turns out that after the Polesti raids,
the Nazi war machine ran out of gas and converted to alcohol. At high altitudes
the German fighters carried more power than they could on avgas. As a practical
matter, German A/C were designed to run on 80 octane with some engines
running 100 octane. German maritime seaplanes ran on diesel, sometimes on vegetable
oil. The Allies used 115/130 octane.
The downside was that remaining German foods and animal feedstocks were depleted
to make the alcohol. Guns or Butter was the Nazi slogan.
Craig Payne
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re-garding oil tank |
Got mine with the claw on first try.
David H.
Message 12
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I figured that was the case, but I like to post here first since I was sure
it happened to someone else, and you never know who might have invented a
"grab the cap from bottom of CJ oil tank tool".. We can actually see the cap
at the bottom of the tank through the dip stick hole, but grabbing it would
be another matter.
Thanks
Ernie
On 12/13/05, Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:14 AM, DaBear wrote:
>
> So a similar thing happened to me on the morning I was to head to
>
> Oshkosh. I tried the "claw" to grab it, but it didn't work. The best
>
> thing was to remove the tank, turn upside down and insure that items
>
> were out of the tank prior to installation. Good news, I got to clean
>
> out the oil tank and change most of my oil prior to heading to Osh.
>
> :-( It took about 30 min to remove the tank and find the offending
>
> piece and about 45 min to reinstall the tank. Having messed with the
>
> Claw for over an hour, I'll not waste my time trying the claw should it
>
> happen in the future.
>
>
> Dabear
>
>
> So my visualizing hours of frustration was at least correct :)
>
> Steve
>
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the tank so
you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though. So by
draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
Viperdoc
> [Original Message]
> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
>
> > I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> > down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> > to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> > cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> > on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> > solution than removing the tank.
> >
> > Ernie
>
>
> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
> hours of frustration, though.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
If you can see the cap try to suck it tight to the end of a vacuum tube.
Make a adapter to neck down your shop vac, might just work.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:17 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
I figured that was the case, but I like to post here first since I was
sure it happened to someone else, and you never know who might have invented
a "grab the cap from bottom of CJ oil tank tool".. We can actually see the
cap at the bottom of the tank through the dip stick hole, but grabbing it
would be another matter.
Thanks
Ernie
On 12/13/05, Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net> wrote:
On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:14 AM, DaBear wrote:
So a similar thing happened to me on the morning I was to head to
Oshkosh. I tried the "claw" to grab it, but it didn't work. The best
thing was to remove the tank, turn upside down and insure that items
were out of the tank prior to installation. Good news, I got to clean
out the oil tank and change most of my oil prior to heading to Osh.
:-( It took about 30 min to remove the tank and find the offending
piece and about 45 min to reinstall the tank. Having messed with the
Claw for over an hour, I'll not waste my time trying the claw should
it
happen in the future.
Dabear
So my visualizing hours of frustration was at least correct :)
Steve
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my
office to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once
when they had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
Herb (the other Doc)
On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the
> tank so
> you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
> You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though.
> So by
> draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
> Viperdoc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
>>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
>>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
>>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
>>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
>>> solution than removing the tank.
>>>
>>> Ernie
>>>
>>
>>
>> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
>> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
>> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
>> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
>> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
>> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
>> hours of frustration, though.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yeh, Herb,
I have some pretty niffty instruments for getting into deep dark places
too. A bronkoscope or myloscope with a grasper would work real well also.
The myloscope is disposable also. You would just not like the cost of the
disposable instrument for this though.
Just hope you washed the oil off real well before you used that scope
again. I know they just could not figure out where that black ring came
from, huh?
Sorry Doug, alittle doctor humor.
Viperdoc
> [Original Message]
> From: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/13/2005 12:43:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
>
> Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
> reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my
> office to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once
> when they had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
>
> Herb (the other Doc)
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the
> > tank so
> > you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
> > You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though.
> > So by
> > draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
> > Viperdoc
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> >>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> >>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> >>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> >>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> >>> solution than removing the tank.
> >>>
> >>> Ernie
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
> >> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
> >> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
> >> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
> >> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
> >> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
> >> hours of frustration, though.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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Message 17
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The vacum idea is pretty good actually. The oil is out of the tank, and we
can see the cap. The trick is that there is a plate on the top of the tank
which wont let the cap through. Cap has to come up the side. Vacum could at
least hold the cap while we grab it with claws.
Gotta wait till my friend gets back from work to give it a try.
Thanks
Ernie
On 12/13/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Yeh, Herb,
> I have some pretty niffty instruments for getting into deep dark places
> too. A bronkoscope or myloscope with a grasper would work real well also.
> The myloscope is disposable also. You would just not like the cost of the
> disposable instrument for this though.
> Just hope you washed the oil off real well before you used that scope
> again. I know they just could not figure out where that black ring came
> from, huh?
> Sorry Doug, alittle doctor humor.
> Viperdoc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 12/13/2005 12:43:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
> >
> > Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
> > reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my
> > office to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once
> > when they had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
> >
> > Herb (the other Doc)
> >
> >
> > On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the
> > > tank so
> > > you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
> > > You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though.
> > > So by
> > > draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
> > > Viperdoc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> > >>
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> > >>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> > >>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> > >>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> > >>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> > >>> solution than removing the tank.
> > >>>
> > >>> Ernie
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
> > >> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
> > >> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
> > >> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
> > >> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
> > >> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
> > >> hours of frustration, though.
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Brand New RPA T-shirt |
The Yak 52 T-shirt is in the design stage. I'll add your thought to the
"Russian Bear" and "Cossack" concepts that are in the works.
Thanks & Merry Christmas, Blitz
Byron M Fox
The RPA Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405 Cell Days
415-380-0907 Home Eves
http://www.flyredstar.org/StoreCSVS/default.aspx
Message 19
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Glad to see I'm in good company. (It would require a "claw" that would hold
it's shape.)
John "Tank" Zecherle
Message 20
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You're probably right John, but I have to say that I do not agree with you
about welding Russian fuel tanks. Their metal is very very thin and will
"blow out" very easily. It is a rather big hassle to pull the tank(s) out
of my YAK-50. In addition, at the time a very expert source in England
recommended slosh compound instead of welding.
On the other hand, prepping the tank in place to bare metal and slapping
some 8802 on it is not that big of a deal. I agree that it is probably
worth while to put a patch over the area, and also to stop drill the
leak/crack.
But to be specific, MY crack happened where there was a welded on attach
point for a ground wire. I removed that. I put 8802 directly over the
leak. That was in 1999. It's been almost 6 years and it is not leaking
yet.
8802 over a leaking weld seam in a Sukhoi 26..... 7 years... still not
leaking.
I took a look at all the straps and cushions that hold my YAK-50 tank in
place and came to the conclusion that doing everything dead on perfect by
the book might in fact end up causing more problems than it fixed. The
stresses on all this hardware looked to me like something that could cause
OTHER problems if disturbed.
This is just my personal opinion, on my airplane.
However, I always report what works.
8802 directly over a crack that was NOT stop drilled has been leak free now
for almost 6 years. It took about 15 minutes to fix versus taking the tank
out, welding it, pressure testing it, putting it back in, and then waiting
to see what happened over the next 6 years to it TOO. My point, the weld
could just as easily fail too over that same time frame.
I'll be sure to let everyone know if the leak returns. But I have to say
that if it does come back, I'll sand it back down and reseal it again.
15-30 minutes for a 6 year (and counting) repair is worth it to me.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: fish@aviation-tech.com [mailto:fish@aviation-tech.com]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
--> Yak-List message posted by: fish@aviation-tech.com
Mark and Others,
I would recommend finding a good welder and having the crack stop drilled,
and
welded. But if you can not find a welder then the next best procedure is:
stop drill the ends, to prevent the crack from continuing. Then put a patch
over the crack, prior to sealing it. The area should be taken back down to
bare
metal and retreated to prevent corrosian.
Once the repair is complete, you should pressure check the tank to make sure
it will not leak again. If it does leak, you will need to conduct a leak
path
analiss.
If you just put more sealant over the new leak, in a matter of time it will
return again. If you strip the old sealant, and reply you could cause
anouther
leak.
The key to making a good repair is the preperation before hand. I am also a
welder and have succeded on repairs where others have failed, because I
spend
a little time prepairing my welds beforehand.
Other repairs may work on a temp basis, but will eventually cause problems
again.
I would be willing to bet that work hardning (small amounts of bending over
time. We as a group may want to look at ways to prevent that from happening
to our tanks, so we do not have to make repairs.
On Yak-52, this is probably cause by improper venting and expansion of the
tanks. The problem can easly be fixed with a better vent system, maybe
something
like the CJ ar eusing to balance their tanks.
Fly Safe
John Fischer
Yak-52, N213YA
Ex-Fuel Sys Mech; A-10A, B-52G/H, F-4C/D, RF-4C, F-15C, F-111D/E/F,
KC-135A/R,
T-37
>
>
>Yes sir. That is what it was actually made for. On the EA-6B we inject it
>into certain void spaces to stop leaks in wet wings. Externally.
>
>I have treated four Russian tanks and have watched it used on 3 more with
>small cracks. I am not recommending this procedure... but in one case the
>tank was emptied and then a hose from the exhaust of a running engine was
>put into the tank to get rid of the oxygen, and then the tank was ground
>down to bare metal with a sanding disk that also sparked a lot.. hence the
>hose into the tank.... the 8802 was/is applied right to the external
surface
>and extended a few inches all around the crack. One tank has the crack
stop
>drilled.... the one on my personal YAK-50 was not. On mine, it has been 5
>years now with no sign of leakage at all. One guy put too thin a layer on
>the leak and it started seeping out (fuel that is). He did not even take
it
>back down to bare metal, but instead just goobered some more 8802 on top
and
>POOF, no more leak.
>
>I keep a supply of it on hand in the fridge 24/7. The stuff is amazing.
As
>long as you apply it to a clean and warm surface, it is going to work. You
>do not want to apply it to cold metal in the winter time. At least not
>without a heat lamp.
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Doug Sapp [mailto:rvfltd@televar.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 5:48 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
>
>
>Mark,
>Your putting the 8802 the OUTSIDE of the tank?? We use it on riveted
seams,
>but have never tried applying it to the outside to stop a leak.
>
>
>Always Yakin,
>Doug Sapp
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
>Mark G
>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:13 PM
>To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
>
>
>I know NOTHING about YAK-55's. However, .... on my YAK-50, the very best
>stuff in the world to fix leaks is Milspec 8802 tank sealant.
>
>Clean off paint.... down to bare metal. Mix up 8802. Apply and let sit
for
>about 36 hours. Go fly....
>
>Did that on mine and it is now 5 years later.. no leaks.
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Coffey, John [mailto:john.coffey@cingular.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 4:24 PM
>To: Carver, Michael A; yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
>
>
>Any of you Yak Wizards know of a good way to fix a Yak-55 fuel tank leak?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carver, Michael A [mailto:michael.a.carver@intel.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:58 AM
>To: Coffey, John
>Subject: Gas leak
>
>
>Hi John,
>
>Have you have ever had a gas tank leak on your Yak?
>
>It looks like my plane is developing a gas leak along the seam on the
bottom
>of both wings.
>
>It would be good to know of an efficient economical way to fix it.
>
>If you have had this problem or know someone who has, would you refer me to
>them?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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Thanks for the very easy to understand explanation Walt! GOT IT! I am
really glad to finally understand this!!!!!!!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon [mailto:wlannon@cablerocket.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil
Hi Mark;
FWIW;
Boost coil system: An induction coil similar to an old automotive ignition
coil but with a set of contact points and usually mounted in a metal
container for radio shielding.
The primary circuit is energized by the start switch inducing a high tension
in the secondary circuit (15,000 - 20,000 Volts?). This is fed to one of the
magnetos through a shielded high tension lead which connects to a special,
retarded position, finger on the distributor rotor. This finger fires the
spark plugs at approx. TDC rather than the normal BTDC setting of the mag.
In operation it totally by-passes the magneto except for spark distribution.
It can be recognized by the existance of the high tension lead.
Shower of Sparks: Back in the '40's I think this was a trade name for a
"new" start system from Bendix. I understand that currently the name is used
by other manufacturers (Lamar?). Not really sure who or if the system is
technically the same as the original Bendix. Since I only somewhat
understand old things the following is Bendix: ------
This uses an induction vibrator which produces an increased voltage that is
delivered to the magneto PRIMARY circuit. When the points open this boosted
primary results in a boosted high tension from the magneto coil to
significantly increase the output of the slow turning magneto to the spark
plugs. This output continues until the points close resulting in a
continuous "shower" of sparks unlike the single spark at point opening when
the primary is produced only by the magneto.
Typically this produces a continuous spark from the mag. BTDC setting to TDC
when the start (& mag) circuit is energized. Since this utilizes the normal
magneto circuits and does not retard the spark the engine could start
backwards. The mags (or mag!) are not turned on until the engine is turning
fast enough.
This system is recognized by the absence of the HT lead and the presence of
a "black" box in the primary circuit between the switch and the mags.
I'm sure there are other systems out there now that render these quaint and
obsolete. But still, the earliest of the above is on the CJ.
Here I must make a confession - I really have no idea of what is on the Yak
50, 54, 55 or any Sukhoi. Seems to me that Dennis and I discussed this some
time back and came to the conclusion that the 52 and CJ were the same. Do I
remember correctly Dennis?
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Booster Coil
Walt, can you explain the difference to me someday when you have time?
Everyone I know always called it a shower of sparks. I just went along with
that term not knowing any better. I'd like to understand it completely and
it is obvious from your comment here that I do not.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil
You're right again Walt. Me bad.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon <mailto:wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Booster Coil
Ben;
Assuming you have replaced the burnt high tension lead and conduit the next
step is to check the boost coil contact points for condition. Clean and
refurbish the points and, if necessary, adjust the point gap. If that fails
replace the boost coil.
BTW you describe the unit correctly. It is a simple boost coil system. It is
NOT a shower of sparks system.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: black <mailto:fwblack7@yahoo.com> seven
Subject: Yak-List: Booster Coil
I recently aquired a Yak 52 and have had a difficult starting it. After
reviewing manuals and opening the cowl, I discovered that the lead from the
booster coil to the left mag had burnt on the exhaust ring.....creating a
short. The booster coil is still energized when the start button is
depressed, but I'm only indicating approx. 200v going into the mag.
Has anyone had this problem or have any suggestions?
Thanks, Ben
Check 6!
_____
Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
Message 22
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I have no idea.
Mark Bitterich
-----Original Message-----
From: cgalley [mailto:cgalley@qcbc.org]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
Would it work for engine parting seam oil leaks?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
Yes sir. That is what it was actually made for. On the EA-6B we inject it
into certain void spaces to stop leaks in wet wings. Externally.
I have treated four Russian tanks and have watched it used on 3 more with
small cracks. I am not recommending this procedure... but in one case the
tank was emptied and then a hose from the exhaust of a running engine was
put into the tank to get rid of the oxygen, and then the tank was ground
down to bare metal with a sanding disk that also sparked a lot.. hence the
hose into the tank.... the 8802 was/is applied right to the external surface
and extended a few inches all around the crack. One tank has the crack stop
drilled.... the one on my personal YAK-50 was not. On mine, it has been 5
years now with no sign of leakage at all. One guy put too thin a layer on
the leak and it started seeping out (fuel that is). He did not even take it
back down to bare metal, but instead just goobered some more 8802 on top and
POOF, no more leak.
I keep a supply of it on hand in the fridge 24/7. The stuff is amazing. As
long as you apply it to a clean and warm surface, it is going to work. You
do not want to apply it to cold metal in the winter time. At least not
without a heat lamp.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sapp [mailto:rvfltd@televar.com]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
Mark,
Your putting the 8802 the OUTSIDE of the tank?? We use it on riveted seams,
but have never tried applying it to the outside to stop a leak.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
I know NOTHING about YAK-55's. However, .... on my YAK-50, the very best
stuff in the world to fix leaks is Milspec 8802 tank sealant.
Clean off paint.... down to bare metal. Mix up 8802. Apply and let sit for
about 36 hours. Go fly....
Did that on mine and it is now 5 years later.. no leaks.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Coffey, John [mailto:john.coffey@cingular.com]
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Gas leak
Any of you Yak Wizards know of a good way to fix a Yak-55 fuel tank leak?
-----Original Message-----
From: Carver, Michael A [mailto:michael.a.carver@intel.com]
Subject: Gas leak
Hi John,
Have you have ever had a gas tank leak on your Yak?
It looks like my plane is developing a gas leak along the seam on the bottom
of both wings.
It would be good to know of an efficient economical way to fix it.
If you have had this problem or know someone who has, would you refer me to
them?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Message 23
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Now let me clear the air here. I didnt drop it, my neigbor did in HIS
airplane. I never let an oil bottle near my airplane unless my super humongo
funnel is in the hole. I rarely add oil when I'm away from home base, my
airplane is quite miserly with it. Last year at Waycross I arrived with 16
litres and arrived home with 12.
Ernie
On 12/13/05, YakL1@aol.com <YakL1@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Glad to see I'm in good company. (It would require a "claw" that would
> hold it's shape.)
>
> John "Tank" Zecherle
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Oil Tank |
One method that I have seen work is to have a small boy reach down in there and
grab it. Vaguely remembering my youth, small boys like to grab frogs, worms,
snakes, etc. A plastic oil cap only takes a few seconds. If he hesitates, bribe
another boy to "dare" him. Works everytime!
Craig Payne
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Oil Tank |
Next time you have a chance, look down into your oil tank.
Ernie
On 12/13/05, Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
> One method that I have seen work is to have a small boy reach down in
> there and grab it. Vaguely remembering my youth, small boys like to grab
> frogs, worms, snakes, etc. A plastic oil cap only takes a few seconds. If he
> hesitates, bribe another boy to "dare" him. Works everytime!
>
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 26
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I have several plastic magnets available that could do the trick. At only
$129 each (cash, USD only), think of the hours of frustration they could save!
Contact me off list.
Dave
In a message dated 12/13/2005 12:19:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
erniel29@gmail.com writes:
The vacum idea is pretty good actually. The oil is out of the tank, and we
can see the cap. The trick is that there is a plate on the top of the tank which
wont let the cap through. Cap has to come up the side. Vacum could at least
hold the cap while we grab it with claws.
Gotta wait till my friend gets back from work to give it a try.
Thanks
Ernie
On 12/13/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yeh, Herb,
I have some pretty niffty instruments for getting into deep dark places
too. A bronkoscope or myloscope with a grasper would work real well also.
The myloscope is disposable also. You would just not like the cost of the
disposable instrument for this though.
Just hope you washed the oil off real well before you used that scope
again. I know they just could not figure out where that black ring came
from, huh?
Sorry Doug, alittle doctor humor.
Viperdoc
> [Original Message]
> From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/13/2005 12:43:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons < drc@wscare.com>
>
> Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
> reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my
> office to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once
> when they had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
>
> Herb (the other Doc)
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the
> > tank so
> > you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
> > You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though.
> > So by
> > draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
> > Viperdoc
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> >> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <mailto:jsfox@adelphia.net>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> >>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> >>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> >>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> >>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> >>> solution than removing the tank.
> >>>
> >>> Ernie
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
> >> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
> >> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
> >> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
> >> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
> >> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
> >> hours of frustration, though.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
Message 27
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Plastic Magnets????
On 12/13/05, KingCJ6@aol.com <KingCJ6@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I have several plastic magnets available that could do the trick. At
> only $129 each (cash, USD only), think of the hours of frustration they
> could save!
>
> Contact me off list.
>
> Dave
>
>
> In a message dated 12/13/2005 12:19:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> erniel29@gmail.com writes:
>
> The vacum idea is pretty good actually. The oil is out of the tank, and we
> can see the cap. The trick is that there is a plate on the top of the tank
> which wont let the cap through. Cap has to come up the side. Vacum could at
> least hold the cap while we grab it with claws.
>
> Gotta wait till my friend gets back from work to give it a try.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ernie
>
> On 12/13/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <
> > viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Yeh, Herb,
> > I have some pretty niffty instruments for getting into deep dark places
> > too. A bronkoscope or myloscope with a grasper would work real well
> > also.
> > The myloscope is disposable also. You would just not like the cost of
> > the
> > disposable instrument for this though.
> > Just hope you washed the oil off real well before you used that scope
> > again. I know they just could not figure out where that black ring came
> > from, huh?
> > Sorry Doug, alittle doctor humor.
> > Viperdoc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com <drc@wscare.com>>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 12/13/2005 12:43:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons < drc@wscare.com>
> > >
> > > Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
> > > reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my
> > > office to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once
> > > when they had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
> > >
> > > Herb (the other Doc)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >
> > > > If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the
> > > > tank so
> > > > you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
> > > > You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though.
> > > > So by
> > > > draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
> > > > Viperdoc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
> > > >> To: <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>>
> > > >> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> > > >>
> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <
> > mailto:jsfox@adelphia.net <jsfox@adelphia.net>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> > > >>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> > > >>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> > > >>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the
> > shelf
> > > >>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> > > >>> solution than removing the tank.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Ernie
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
> > > >> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
> > > >> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
> > > >> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
> > > >> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and
> > feeling
> > > >> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
> > > >> hours of frustration, though.
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve
> > > >>
>
>
Message 28
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To all those who have purchased CJ6 cockpit placards from me in the past 2 years
here is a recall notice.
The mag. switch placard is incorrect with the "R" & "L" exchanged. This will cause
major frustration in trouble-shooting a mag. problem.
My apologies for the error.
If you have these placards please contact me off list for replacements.
wlannon@cablerocket.com or telephone 250-498-8387 (days) 250-495-3349 (eve).
Walt
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