Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:15 AM - CJ6 Aerobatics (Lance Robb)
2. 05:06 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Phil Cogan)
3. 05:24 AM - Oil Tank...oops (Jeff Linebaugh)
4. 05:46 AM - EP of the Week #3 (Jeff Linebaugh)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Brand New RPA T-shirt (Michael Bolton)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: Oil Tank...oops (Roger Doc Kemp)
7. 06:59 AM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (Ernest Martinez)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: Oil Tank...oops (Ernest Martinez)
9. 07:03 AM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Fraser, Gus)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Doug Sapp)
12. 09:01 AM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (Fraser, Gus)
13. 12:30 PM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Lance Robb)
14. 02:07 PM - Re: Oil Tank...oops (Rob Mortara)
15. 02:44 PM - Re: Oil Tank (Fraser, Gus)
16. 04:07 PM - Re: Oil Tank (ggg6@att.net)
17. 05:52 PM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
18. 05:55 PM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (Ernest Martinez)
19. 08:23 PM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Brian Lloyd)
20. 08:30 PM - changing light bulbs (Brian Lloyd)
21. 08:51 PM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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Hi Guys,
I saw the clip for the Yakfest and was very impressed with the flying in it.
The snap roll after take off was unreal!! There was another piece with a
Yak 52 doing a Lomcevak, which got me thinking whether any of you have done
it in a CJ6. It's not listed in the flight manual list of manoeuvres but
neither are a lot of others which it does nicely. Which leads me to my
question, if it is permissible and the aircraft is capable of withstanding
the loads what speeds and inputs are recommended to do it?
Regards, Lance Robb (NQ Warbirds Aust)
--
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Phil Cogan" <zeromold@earthlink.net>
This did not only happen to Rob, I did it as well. Once you've removed the
oil tank there is still plenty of work to be done to get those little caps
out. Removing and reinstalling the tank is not as difficult as you may
imagine; it just time consuming. The trick is to never let the cap fall in.
We now use 1 gallon containers with bigger caps. We also will remove the cap
and throw it on the ground BEFORE it ever gets near the opening.
Ernie, remove the tank and clean it good. You'll be amazed at the sludge
that builds up in there.
Phil Cogan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Fox
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
> solution than removing the tank.
>
> Ernie
As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
hours of frustration, though.
Steve
Message 3
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Gees guys... in the time it took to read all the commentary on retrieving
the oil cap, I think even three-thumbed me could have had the oil tank
drained, removed, turned upside down and the oil cap retrieved! 'Taint no
big deal... (But then again, I am a slow reader...)
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 4
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| Subject: | EP of the Week #3 |
Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a loop,
you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop. When you
level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight haze in the
cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments and everything is normal
However, you notice that the amps are reading full positive. What do you do?
For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say that you
have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a four-ship. What do you do?
For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the clouds?
What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
volts?
There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Brand New RPA T-shirt |
Looking forward to them being available Byron.
Michael Bolton
"If it doesn't sound round, Why look?"
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Brand New RPA T-shirt
Gentlemen:
Attached is the artwork by famous R. T. Foster for the first of a series of new
aircraft specific T-shirts designs for the RPA On-Line Store. This is the "NANCHANG
DRAGON" to be available in "Stone Blue" on-line within a couple of weeks.
Stay tuned. I'll keep you posted
Merry Christmas & Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
RPA On-line Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
Home 415-380-0907 Eves
Cell 415-307-2405 Days
Message 6
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Jeff,
Better idea, take the top off the oil bottle while the liter/quart of oil is on
the wing. Then climb up the ladder and pour the oil in the tank. Being sure to
leave the cap on the wing. That way the cap does not get anywhere near the oil
tank fill port. You can always retrieve the cap from the wing to put back
on the bottle when you are down on the ground away from the oil tank. Also, leave
your screwdriver or Swiss Army knife on the wing after taking the fill port
panel off before opening the fill port. That is unless you have a lanyard on
it. That way it does not end up in the oil tank too. :>))
Yeh, I know it takes a little longer to pre-flight the jet that way. From the pictures
I have seen of a number of us in flight suits, we could use the exercise.
Also, we are not standing alert nor do we have a TOT to hit. Take the extra
time. It will save you the time it will take draining and removing the tank
to retrieve the offending object. ;>(( !
viperdoc
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank...oops
Gees guys... in the time it took to read all the commentary on retrieving the oil
cap, I think even three-thumbed me could have had the oil tank drained, removed,
turned upside down and the oil cap retrieved! 'Taint no big deal... (But
then again, I am a slow reader...)
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
I would land and clean the acid out of my battery compartment pronto, then
add water to the battery if it hasnt already been fried becuae of low water.
Push button to measure volts.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a
> loop, you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop. When
> you level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight haze in the
> cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments and everything is normal.
> However, you notice that the amps are reading full positive. What do you do?
>
> For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say that you
> have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a four-ship. What do you do?
>
> For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the clouds?
>
> What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
> volts?
>
> There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> *http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejefflinebaugh/>
> *
> *CJ-6P N621CJ*
> *Memphis, TN*
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id409&lang9>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Tank...oops |
True, but havent you ever heard of a Rube Goldberg Machine?? Fun to design.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Gees guys... in the time it took to read all the commentary on
> retrieving the oil cap, I think even three-thumbed me could have had the oil
> tank drained, removed, turned upside down and the oil cap retrieved! 'Taint
> no big deal... (But then again, I am a slow reader...)
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> *http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejefflinebaugh/>
> *
> *CJ-6P N621CJ*
> *Memphis, TN*
>
>
> <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id409&lang9>
Message 9
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NOT A YAK CJ WAR ISSUE (I fly an SP-91)
I would not only question the loads but the rudder. If you look at the
configuration of the CJ the rudder is masked by the elevators in a positive
spin or flick. I have never flown a CJ but have flown many aerobatic types
and you get a feel for sizing up an aircraft. Add to this that it is a long
bird with wide wings (polar inertia) and I would be very cautious about
investigating am sure that a CJ will do regular spins just fine with enough
weight in the nose but I would be concerned about anything more aggressive
(flat, aggravated) as it is nice to have loads of boot in those situations.
Plus the airframe is not new so I would treat it with respect, ala T34, T6.
These aircraft were not designed for balls out aerobatics they are basic
military trainers. Take a look at the G loading of the most famous fighters
in the world and you will find that the -ve G loading is not high at all.
Why ? simple, if you are pushing over you can't see the bad guy. That said
CJs have competed before Not to a high grade and not with too much success.
The snap roll after takeoff is performed by Gennady Elfimov as part of his
airshow routine. You had better be sure that your snaps are top notch before
even considering this one :) I remember flying with Gennady when he was
having a bad day and even he could not get the timing right. As a note he
did tell be that they would compare inside thigh bruises. The location of
the bruise on the thigh would determine if you were pushing the stick to the
right location, slightly forward and in snap aileron :)
Rather than people describing speeds and inputs and you going off and trying
it by yourself I would recommend getting instruction from someone with
experience on that type of aircraft. If there are none in Australia then hey
that is an excuse to come on out to Oshkosh and hook up with one of the guys
over here. Remember, when you sell this too your wife it goes something like
this.
If you are getting along with your wife use :-
"Honey, I have to go to America and get some training otherwise I could
die".
If you are not she will be glad to see the back of you so you are golden.
I used a similar thing with my wife when I moved from the Yak to the SP
"Honey, Sergey says that if I don't sell the Yak and buy something better I
could die"
:)
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
Hi Guys,
I saw the clip for the Yakfest and was very impressed with the flying in it.
The snap roll after take off was unreal!! There was another piece with a
Yak 52 doing a Lomcevak, which got me thinking whether any of you have done
it in a CJ6. It's not listed in the flight manual list of manoeuvres but
neither are a lot of others which it does nicely. Which leads me to my
question, if it is permissible and the aircraft is capable of withstanding
the loads what speeds and inputs are recommended to do it?
Regards, Lance Robb (NQ Warbirds Aust)
--
Clear Day
<STYLE>BODY {
MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR: #0033cc; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica
}
</STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
<BODY id=ridBody background=cid:137122613@14122005-21DA>
NOT A YAK CJ WAR ISSUE (I
fly an SP-91)
I would not only question
the loads but the rudder. If you look at the configuration of the CJ the rudder
is masked by the elevators in a positive spin or flick. I have never flown a CJ
but have flown many aerobatic types and you get a feel for sizing up an
aircraft. Add to this that it is a long bird with wide wings (polar inertia) and
I would be very cautious about investigating am sure that a CJ will do regular
spins just fine with enough weight in the nose but I would be concerned about
anything more aggressive (flat, aggravated) as it is nice to have loads of boot
in those situations. Plus the airframe is not new so I would treat it with
respect, ala T34, T6. These aircraft were not designed for balls out aerobatics
they are basic military trainers. Take a look at the G loading of the most
famous fighters in the world and you will find that the -ve G loading is not
high at all. Why ? simple, if you are pushing over you can't see the bad guy.
That said CJs have competed before Not to a high grade and not with too much
success.
The
snap roll after takeoff is performed by Gennady Elfimov as part of his airshow
routine. You had better be sure that your snaps are top notch before even
considering this one :) I remember flying with Gennady when he was having
a bad day and even he could not get the timing right. As a note he did tell be
that they would compare inside thigh bruises. The location of the bruise on the
thigh would determine if you were pushing the stick to the right location,
slightly forward and in snap aileron :)
Rather than people describing speeds and
inputs and you going off and trying it by yourself I would recommend getting
instruction from someone with experience on that type of aircraft. If there are
none in Australia then hey that is an excuse to come on out to Oshkosh and hook
up with one of the guys over here. Remember, when you sell this too your wife it
goes something like this.
If you are getting along with your wife use
:-
"Honey, I have to go to America and get some
training otherwise I could die".
If you are not she will be glad to see the
back of you so you are golden.
I used a similar thing with my wife when I
moved from the Yak to the SP
"Honey, Sergey says that if I don't sell the
Yak and buy something better I could die"
:)
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Robb
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6
Aerobatics
Hi Guys,
I saw the clip for the Yakfest and was very
impressed with the flying in it. The snap roll after take off was
unreal!! There was another piecewith a Yak 52 doing a Lomcevak,
which got me thinking whether any of you have done it in a CJ6. It's not
listed in the flight manual list of manoeuvres but neither are a lot of others
which it does nicely. Which leads me to my question, if it is permissible and
the aircraftis capable of withstanding the loads what speeds and inputs
are recommended to do it?
Regards, Lance Robb (NQ Warbirds
Aust)
--
Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
13/12/2005
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
My question is why would anyone be using a battery that requires water in an airplane
that has aerobatic capabilities? A sealed battery should be the only
type used in these airplanes. FWIW
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernest Martinez
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week #3
I would land and clean the acid out of my battery compartment pronto, then add
water to the battery if it hasnt already been fried becuae of low water.
Push button to measure volts.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a loop,
you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop. When you
level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight haze in the cockpit.
You look down at the engine instruments and everything is normal. However,
you notice that the amps are reading full positive. What do you do?
What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
volts?
There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 11
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Clear DayGus,
Snaps are absolutely verboten in the CJ, a real no-no.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:02 AM
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
NOT A YAK CJ WAR ISSUE (I fly an SP-91)
I would not only question the loads but the rudder. If you look at the
configuration of the CJ the rudder is masked by the elevators in a positive
spin or flick. I have never flown a CJ but have flown many aerobatic types
and you get a feel for sizing up an aircraft. Add to this that it is a long
bird with wide wings (polar inertia) and I would be very cautious about
investigating am sure that a CJ will do regular spins just fine with enough
weight in the nose but I would be concerned about anything more aggressive
(flat, aggravated) as it is nice to have loads of boot in those situations.
Plus the airframe is not new so I would treat it with respect, ala T34, T6.
These aircraft were not designed for balls out aerobatics they are basic
military trainers. Take a look at the G loading of the most famous fighters
in the world and you will find that the -ve G loading is not high at all.
Why ? simple, if you are pushing over you can't see the bad guy. That said
CJs have competed before Not to a high grade and not with too much success.
The snap roll after takeoff is performed by Gennady Elfimov as part of his
airshow routine. You had better be sure that your snaps are top notch before
even considering this one :) I remember flying with Gennady when he was
having a bad day and even he could not get the timing right. As a note he
did tell be that they would compare inside thigh bruises. The location of
the bruise on the thigh would determine if you were pushing the stick to the
right location, slightly forward and in snap aileron :)
Rather than people describing speeds and inputs and you going off and
trying it by yourself I would recommend getting instruction from someone
with experience on that type of aircraft. If there are none in Australia
then hey that is an excuse to come on out to Oshkosh and hook up with one of
the guys over here. Remember, when you sell this too your wife it goes
something like this.
If you are getting along with your wife use :-
"Honey, I have to go to America and get some training otherwise I could
die".
If you are not she will be glad to see the back of you so you are golden.
I used a similar thing with my wife when I moved from the Yak to the SP
"Honey, Sergey says that if I don't sell the Yak and buy something better
I could die"
:)
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:15 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
Hi Guys,
I saw the clip for the Yakfest and was very impressed with the flying in
it. The snap roll after take off was unreal!! There was another piece with
a Yak 52 doing a Lomcevak, which got me thinking whether any of you have
done it in a CJ6. It's not listed in the flight manual list of manoeuvres
but neither are a lot of others which it does nicely. Which leads me to my
question, if it is permissible and the aircraft is capable of withstanding
the loads what speeds and inputs are recommended to do it?
Regards, Lance Robb (NQ Warbirds Aust)
--
13/12/2005
Message 12
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| Subject: | EP of the Week #3 |
I'm with you Dennis, acid is bad in the plane and bad in the pilot.
Man
Gus :))
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week #3
My question is why would anyone be using a battery that requires water in an
airplane that has aerobatic capabilities? A sealed battery should be the
only type used in these airplanes. FWIW
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernest <mailto:erniel29@gmail.com> Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week #3
I would land and clean the acid out of my battery compartment pronto, then
add water to the battery if it hasnt already been fried becuae of low water.
Push button to measure volts.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
<mailto:jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> > wrote:
Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a loop,
you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop. When you
level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight haze in the
cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments and everything is normal.
However, you notice that the amps are reading full positive. What do you do?
For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say that you
have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a four-ship. What do you do?
For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the clouds?
What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
volts?
There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net <mailto:jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejefflinebaugh/>
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm with you Dennis, acid is bad in the plane and bad in
the pilot.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Man
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus :))
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week
#3
My question is why would anyone be using a battery that
requires water in an airplane that has aerobatic capabilities? A sealed
battery shouldbe the only type used in these airplanes.
FWIW
Dennis
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=erniel29@gmail.com ">Ernest
Martinez
To: <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:59
AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week
#3
I would land and clean the acid out of my battery compartment
pronto, then add water to the battery if it hasnt already been fried becuae
of low water.
Push button to measure volts.
Ernie
<SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 12/14/05, <B class=gmail_sendername>Jeff
Linebaugh <A
">jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid">
Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side
of a loop, you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the
loop. When you level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is
a
slight haze in the cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments
and everything is normal. However, you notice that the amps are
reading full positive. What do you do?
For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say
that you have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a
four-ship. What do you do?
For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the
clouds?
What should the normal readings be for volts and amps?
How do you read volts?
There will be a lotmore on this situation to follow so
stay tuned...
Jeff Linebaugh
<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
"
target=_blank>jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
<EM><A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
/"
target=_blank>http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/</EM>
<EM>CJ-6P N621CJ</EM>
<EM>Memphis, TN</EM>
<TD vAlign=bottom
align=middle>
<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
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Message 13
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Hi Gus,
Thanks for the reply. I am well aware the snaps are out with the CJ but
having not done a lomcevak before and not having anyone here in Oz doing
advanced aeros in this type of aircraft to go and ask, I thought I'd ask
here first.
I like your train of thought with the wife tho.......
Regards,
Lance
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
NOT A YAK CJ WAR ISSUE (I fly an SP-91)
I would not only question the loads but the rudder. If you look at the
configuration of the CJ the rudder is masked by the elevators in a positive
spin or flick. I have never flown a CJ but have flown many aerobatic types
and you get a feel for sizing up an aircraft. Add to this that it is a long
bird with wide wings (polar inertia) and I would be very cautious about
investigating am sure that a CJ will do regular spins just fine with enough
weight in the nose but I would be concerned about anything more aggressive
(flat, aggravated) as it is nice to have loads of boot in those situations.
Plus the airframe is not new so I would treat it with respect, ala T34, T6.
These aircraft were not designed for balls out aerobatics they are basic
military trainers. Take a look at the G loading of the most famous fighters
in the world and you will find that the -ve G loading is not high at all.
Why ? simple, if you are pushing over you can't see the bad guy. That said
CJs have competed before Not to a high grade and not with too much success.
The snap roll after takeoff is performed by Gennady Elfimov as part of his
airshow routine. You had better be sure that your snaps are top notch before
even considering this one :) I remember flying with Gennady when he was
having a bad day and even he could not get the timing right. As a note he
did tell be that they would compare inside thigh bruises. The location of
the bruise on the thigh would determine if you were pushing the stick to the
right location, slightly forward and in snap aileron :)
Rather than people describing speeds and inputs and you going off and trying
it by yourself I would recommend getting instruction from someone with
experience on that type of aircraft. If there are none in Australia then hey
that is an excuse to come on out to Oshkosh and hook up with one of the guys
over here. Remember, when you sell this too your wife it goes something like
this.
If you are getting along with your wife use :-
"Honey, I have to go to America and get some training otherwise I could
die".
If you are not she will be glad to see the back of you so you are golden.
I used a similar thing with my wife when I moved from the Yak to the SP
"Honey, Sergey says that if I don't sell the Yak and buy something better I
could die"
:)
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
Hi Guys,
I saw the clip for the Yakfest and was very impressed with the flying in it.
The snap roll after take off was unreal!! There was another piece with a
Yak 52 doing a Lomcevak, which got me thinking whether any of you have done
it in a CJ6. It's not listed in the flight manual list of manoeuvres but
neither are a lot of others which it does nicely. Which leads me to my
question, if it is permissible and the aircraft is capable of withstanding
the loads what speeds and inputs are recommended to do it?
Regards, Lance Robb (NQ Warbirds Aust)
--
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Message 14
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Gee guys
I thought I was the only bonehead pilot to drop a oil cap in
rob
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Linebaugh
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank...oops
Gees guys... in the time it took to read all the commentary on retrieving
the oil cap, I think even three-thumbed me could have had the oil tank
drained, removed, turned upside down and the oil cap retrieved! 'Taint no
big deal... (But then again, I am a slow reader...)
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
HYPERLINK "mailto:jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net"jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
HYPERLINK
"http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/"http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffli
nebaugh/
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
HYPERLINK "http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9"
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Message 15
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Ernie, Is this like one of those "Doctor I have this friend who ------"
situations ???
No but seriously this does happen a lot. I am interested those of you that
removed the tank did any of you find two caps in there ? The one instance I
saw had 5, count them 5 RPA pilots all trying to get the damned thing out.
So, how many RPA pilots does it take to change the oil ?
Speaking of which, how many FSDO Staff does it take to change a light bulb ?
One, he holds the light bulb and the world revolves around him.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down into
the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting out.
Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too big,
must go down around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil tank.
I'd like to hear an easier solution than removing the tank.
Ernie
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Ernie, Is this like one of those "Doctor I have this
friend who ------" situations ???
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>No but seriously this does happen a lot. I am interested
those of you that removed the tank did any of you find two caps in there ? The
one instance I saw had 5, count them 5 RPA pilots all trying to get the damned
thing out. So, how many RPA pilots does it take to change the oil
?
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Speaking of which, how manyFSDO Staffdoes it
take to change a light bulb ?
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>One,he holds the light bulb and the world revolves
around him.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Martinez
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Oil
Tank
I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting
out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too
big, must go down around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil
tank. I'd like to hear an easier solution than removing the
tank.
Ernie
Message 16
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Guys,, also make sure that the little plastic ring that is attached to the cap,
is off the container befor you pour the oil, at times it will stay on the bottle
even tho you have pulled the cap off, and set it aside... Gary g
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>: --------------
Ernie, Is this like one of those "Doctor I have this friend who ------" situations
???
No but seriously this does happen a lot. I am interested those of you that removed
the tank did any of you find two caps in there ? The one instance I saw had
5, count them 5 RPA pilots all trying to get the damned thing out. So, how many
RPA pilots does it take to change the oil ?
Speaking of which, how many FSDO Staff does it take to change a light bulb ?
One, he holds the light bulb and the world revolves around him.
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down into the tank.
Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting out. Cant just
go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too big, must go down
around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear
an easier solution than removing the tank.
Ernie
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Guys,, also make sure that the little plastic ring that is attached to the cap,
is off the container befor you pour the oil, at times it will stay on the bottle
even tho you have pulled the cap off, and set it aside... Gary g
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" gus.fraser@gs.com: --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
Ernie, Is this like one of those "Doctor I have this friend who ------" situations
???
No but seriously this does happen a lot. I am interested those of you that removed
the tank did any of you find two caps in there ? The one instance I saw had
5, count them 5 RPA pilots all trying to get the damned thing out. So, how many
RPA pilots does it take to change the oil ?
Speaking of which, how manyFSDO Staffdoes it take to change a light bulb ?
One,he holds the light bulb and the world revolves around him.
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down into the tank.
Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting out. Cant just
go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too big, must go down
around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear
an easier solution than removing the tank.
Ernie
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 17
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Scouts honor it wasnt me.....He lurks on this list but never posts. You know
who you are, let me off the hook here.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, ggg6@att.net <ggg6@att.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,, also make sure that the little plastic ring that is attached to the
> cap, is off the container befor you pour the oil, at times it will stay on
> the bottle even tho you have pulled the cap off, and set it aside... Gary g
>
> -------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>:
> --------------
>
> Ernie, Is this like one of those "Doctor I have this friend who ------"
> situations ???
>
> No but seriously this does happen a lot. I am interested those of you that
> removed the tank did any of you find two caps in there ? The one instance I
> saw had 5, count them 5 RPA pilots all trying to get the damned thing out.
> So, how many RPA pilots does it take to change the oil ?
>
> Speaking of which, how many FSDO Staff does it take to change a light bulb
> ?
>
> One, he holds the light bulb and the world revolves around him.
>
> Gus
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ernest Martinez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:35 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle down into
> the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick to getting out.
> Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole cause the cap is too big,
> must go down around the side of the shelf on the upper part of the oil tank.
> I'd like to hear an easier solution than removing the tank.
>
> Ernie
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
That said, I have the Odessey sealed batteries in both my CJ and L-29.
Ernie
On 12/14/05, Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com> wrote:
>
> I'm with you Dennis, acid is bad in the plane and bad in the pilot.
>
> Man
>
> Gus :))
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *A. Dennis Savarese
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:37 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week #3
>
> My question is why would anyone be using a battery that requires water in
> an airplane that has aerobatic capabilities? A sealed battery should be
> the only type used in these airplanes. FWIW
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:59 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: EP of the Week #3
>
> I would land and clean the acid out of my battery compartment pronto, then
> add water to the battery if it hasnt already been fried becuae of low water.
>
> Push button to measure volts.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 12/14/05, Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a
> > loop, you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop. When
> > you level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight haze in the
> > cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments and everything is normal.
> > However, you notice that the amps are reading full positive. What do you do?
> >
> > For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say that you
> > have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a four-ship. What do you do?
> >
> > For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the clouds?
> >
> > What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
> > volts?
> >
> > There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeff Linebaugh
> > jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
> > *http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejefflinebaugh/>
> > *
> > *CJ-6P N621CJ*
> > *Memphis, TN*
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id409&lang9>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Aerobatics |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Doug Sapp wrote:
> Gus,
> Snaps are absolutely verboten in the CJ, a real no-no.
I haven't heard this admonition before. Could you please enlighten me.
You can spin the CJ. It would seem to me that if the entry speed were
reasonably low you couldn't overstress anything in the airframe. What am
I missing here?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 20
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| Subject: | changing light bulbs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Fraser, Gus wrote:
> Speaking of which, how many FSDO Staff does it take to change a light bulb ?
None. No FSDO staff member has any experience with aviation hardware. It
is the responsibility of the manufacturer to post Instructions for
Continued Airworthiness with regard to their light bulbs, not the FSDO.
OTOH, they will issue a notice of proposed rulemaking proposing banning
the use of light bulbs as they are known to be failure-prone. In that
case the AOPA will rush about getting its membership to change all the
potentially failing light bulbs and then point out that light bulb
failure is no longer possible in the aviation community.
Did I get it right? Huh? Did I?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
> Its VFR, and you are out practicing acro when on the back side of a
> loop, you notice an electrical acidic smell... you complete the loop.
> When you level off, the smell is not as strong, but there is a slight
> haze in the cockpit. You look down at the engine instruments and
> everything is normal. However, you notice that the amps are reading full
> positive. What do you do?
Immediately check the voltage (push the button on the ammeter). If it is
above 29V you have a failed voltage regulator and the generator has "run
away". This will quickly destroy the battery and when it fails,
sometimes catastrophically (as in *BOOM*) all of the electrical devices
will shortly follow from the gross over voltage. Turn off the generator
switch RIGHT NOW and do not expect that the battery will continue to
provide power as it may already be too far gone to continue working.
> For you formation guys and gals: Instead of the loop, let's say that you
> have just called "in" after a pitchout as #3 of a four-ship. What do you do?
Turn off the generator. Key the mic and say, "knock it off, knock it
off. Red lead, red three. I have a problem. I expect electrical failure.
Someone lead me home." The only problem is that your radio is probably
already fried.
Lead can't see me but #4 can. I would probably start a recovery turn and
#4 should join up on me. I then give him the appropriate HEFO sign and
pass him the lead as I probably have no radio or navigation equipment
left to get me home. #4 can inform lead of the problem.
> For you IFR fliers, what would be different if you were in the clouds?
You will probably die as your gyros are electric and may already be
damaged or destroyed. If you have a high enough ceiling you might put
the aircraft into a spin and recover when you get below the ceiling.
Regardless, this is a Very Bad Thing as your generator is gone and your
battery has probably been severely damaged and probably won't keep
things running, especially if you are using the Chinese gyros that suck
massive amounts of power.
> What should the normal readings be for volts and amps? How do you read
> volts?
The normal reading for ammeter should be positive right after start but
then drop to very near zero as the battery comes back to full charge.
Volts should be 27.5V-28.5V if the engine is turning fast enough for the
generator to be on-line.
And remember that the ammeter in the CJ6A indicates backward from its US
counterparts. Deflection to the left of zero indicates battery charge
and to the right of zero indicates battery discharge.
> There will be a lot more on this situation to follow so stay tuned...
I can't wait.
You have outlined the failure that scares me the most in the CJ6A's
systems. The electrical system in the CJ6A is (IMHO) very 'brittle' in
that there are lots of single points of failure that can take out the
entire system. I would not trust the CJ6A electrical system for IFR
operations without modification and improvement.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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