Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Lieven Buyse)
2. 05:39 AM - Some pictures I found (Fraser, Gus)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Some pictures I found (Genzlinger, Reade)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Doug Sapp)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Some pictures I found (Fraser, Gus)
6. 06:59 AM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Brian Lloyd)
7. 08:02 AM - Batteries (Richard Goode)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: EP of the Week #3 (Barry Hancock)
9. 08:13 AM - Oil Tank (Richard Goode)
10. 08:28 AM - Re: Batteries (Brian Lloyd)
11. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: EP of the Week #3 (Brian Lloyd)
12. 08:48 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Fraser, Gus)
13. 09:22 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Kevin Pilling)
14. 09:52 AM - Re: Oil Tank (Ernest Martinez)
15. 10:01 AM - Re: Batteries (Genzlinger, Reade)
16. 10:03 AM - Re: Batteries (Roger Doc Kemp)
17. 10:59 AM - Re: Batteries (Walter Lannon)
18. 11:02 AM - EP #3 (Roger Doc Kemp)
19. 11:59 AM - Snot bottle (Stephen Fox)
20. 12:31 PM - Re: CJ6 Aerobatics (Fraser, Gus)
21. 05:15 PM - Re: Batteries (Brian Lloyd)
22. 05:27 PM - Re: Batteries (Ernest Martinez)
23. 05:33 PM - Re: Batteries (Brian Lloyd)
24. 05:34 PM - Re: Batteries (Brian Lloyd)
25. 05:39 PM - Yak52 TW Canopy Cover (David McGirt)
26. 05:41 PM - Re: EP #3 (Brian Lloyd)
27. 06:07 PM - Re: Batteries (Brian Lloyd)
28. 06:10 PM - Re: Yak52 TW Canopy Cover (Brian Lloyd)
29. 06:15 PM - Re: Batteries (A. Dennis Savarese)
30. 10:31 PM - Re: Yak52 TW Canopy Cover (ByronMFox@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lieven Buyse" <lie.buyse@pandora.be>
I think this is the best and (very) easiest way to go. I used a flexible
brochoscope with cable claw to get pieces of starlings out of the 3 air
intakes after a multiple bird strike on takeoff (counted 62 victims on the
runway and 13 in the engine compartiment!). If you know an anesthesiologist,
pneumologist or gastrenterologist (gynecologist : only if in the possession
of a pilot licence; otherwise can't be handy enough) you can ask for an "old
"one. In our hospital, almost all direct vision scopes are replaced by types
with the a CCD in the tip of the scope.
We gave one to a nature reserve to inspect nests in difficult to reach
places.
I'm aware that the U.S. might be a little slower in innovations, but you can
try it. Start with the anesthesiologists, they are the nicest breed.
Lieven(the other other Doc)
YAK52
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
>
> Know any friendly gynecologists? We have all sorts of long tools to
> reach in dark narrow places. I even used a flexible scope from my office
> to retrieve parts through the side of a Continental 540 once when they
> had all those camshaft probs about 5-6 years ago.
>
> Herb (the other Doc)
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> If you are going to try the claw routine, drain the oil out of the tank
>> so
>> you can atleast have a chance of seeing the offending cap.
>> You probably are still going to have to take the tank off though. So by
>> draining the oil out you will atleast be part of the way ahead.
>> Viperdoc
>>
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: 12/13/2005 9:51:01 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've got a friend here who dropped the cap off of an oil bottle
>>>> down into the tank. Has anyone done this and is there a good trick
>>>> to getting out. Cant just go straight through the dip stick hole
>>>> cause the cap is too big, must go down around the side of the shelf
>>>> on the upper part of the oil tank. I'd like to hear an easier
>>>> solution than removing the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Ernie
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As I recall this happened to Rob Mortara on his CJ, sadly all he
>>> could do was remove the tank. However if you have access to a cable
>>> claw, small one. One of those things with a claw on one end and a
>>> plunger on the other that when you push in the plunger it open and
>>> closes the claw. You might try sliding that into the tank and feeling
>>> around for the cap and then grabbing with the claw. I do visualize
>>> hours of frustration, though.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Some pictures I found |
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Was just cleaning up my computer and I found these pictures of myself (the
white one) and Reade G (the black one) over New Hope NJ. Just wanted to
point out that there are still enough shopping days till Christmas to get
the white one 1996, 500hrs total time
See http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=86189
So if you are stuck for what to buy the pilot in your family look mo
further. Fresh annual etc etc.
If interested off list please.
Gus
<<20040822_0085.jpg>> <<20040822_0089.jpg>> <<20040822_0072.jpg>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Some pictures I found |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Now Gus - don't those pictures make you just a little bit homesick for that
52 experience? Who am I going to do ACM with.....I mean black and white
mixing it up - what could be more classic?
Reade - the black one!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fraser, Gus [mailto:gus.fraser@gs.com]
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Was just cleaning up my computer and I found these pictures
> of myself (the white one) and Reade G (the black one) over
> New Hope NJ.
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
"if" is the key word here. Heck Brian,"If" you did it exactly right you
could do nearly ANY aerobatic maneuver in the CJ that you could do in an
"unlimited" aerobatic aircraft. I personally am not that confident in my
abilities to judge what is and what is not an acceptable entry speed, stick
speed or input pressures. The Chinese tell me that they do not do/teach
snaps in the CJ6, but acknowledge that the cadets do them when unsupervised,
and the result of this treatment shows up in the spar problem. Note that the
spar doubler from China is NOT a factory fix, but is done in the field at
the air bases. A new CJ6 comes from the factory without a doubler on the
spar. The factory's comment on the issue was "if the aircraft is properly
flown this is not a problem, anything can be broken". The spar in the
horizontal stab simply will not take the forces exerted upon it during snap
rolls and will in time crack. We all know this a problem in this aircraft,
why would you want to do it? In other aircraft with beefed up spars and or
braced tails, like the Yak 18, CJ5 and many others this is not a problem.
In past posting we have discussed the merits of the doubler, it's
construction, material type, and proper installation. In my opinion it is a
acceptable fix, but not a good fix, as it simply transfers the stress points
outbd to a point that was not really designed to take that stress ie the
first row of rivets in the spar's first outbd rib on each side. Again, just
my opinion, but if you now have the doubler on the spar you should continue
your annual inspections of this area and refrain from snap rolling your
aircraft. Because the end of the installed doubler is very close to the
first row of rivets the potential failure point will now be at the rivet
line of the first rib and will be difficult to see, so very careful
inspection is needed to make sure that further cracking is not present.
Owners of aircraft that are routinely used for hard aerobatics should be
doubly (no pun) careful about this inspection.
This is one of the big differences in the value of the two types of CJ's
coming out of China. Many of the previously military owned and cadet flown
CJ's have been found to have cracked spars in the horizontal stabilizer,
which is a clear indication as to the treatment they have received in their
past life. In club owned aircraft this is not a problem because of the
manner in which they are flown. The cadets treat them like tractors, while
only experienced officers get to fly the club aircraft, which in my mind
makes them more desirable.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Aerobatics
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Doug Sapp wrote:
> Gus,
> Snaps are absolutely verboten in the CJ, a real no-no.
I haven't heard this admonition before. Could you please enlighten me.
You can spin the CJ. It would seem to me that if the entry speed were
reasonably low you couldn't overstress anything in the airframe. What am
I missing here?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 5
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| Subject: | Some pictures I found |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Yea,
What is even better is that they are sisters two serial numbers apart.
Get a black Yak 50, SP-91 on 50, interesting.
In truth I love my 52, my wife however doesn't see the utility in being a
multi aircraft family. Planes are like golf clubs you can't play the whole
course with just one.
The 52 is currently hangered up at George Coys place but I am definitely
tempted to go get her back. One of Georges guys is flying her once a month
just to keep the cobwebs at bay. Maybe we should plane a trip some time. If
Spencer wants to rent/lease her from me that may be OK.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Genzlinger, Reade
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Some pictures I found
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade"
--> <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Now Gus - don't those pictures make you just a little bit homesick for that
52 experience? Who am I going to do ACM with.....I mean black and white
mixing it up - what could be more classic?
Reade - the black one!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fraser, Gus [mailto:gus.fraser@gs.com]
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Was just cleaning up my computer and I found these pictures of myself
> (the white one) and Reade G (the black one) over New Hope NJ.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Aerobatics |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Doug Sapp wrote:
> spar. The factory's comment on the issue was "if the aircraft is properly
> flown this is not a problem, anything can be broken". The spar in the
> horizontal stab simply will not take the forces exerted upon it during snap
> rolls and will in time crack. We all know this a problem in this aircraft,
> why would you want to do it? In other aircraft with beefed up spars and or
> braced tails, like the Yak 18, CJ5 and many others this is not a problem.
I was not connecting the issue of horizontal stab spar cracking with
snap rolls. You have provided the missing link. Thanks.
> In past posting we have discussed the merits of the doubler, it's
> construction, material type, and proper installation. In my opinion it is a
> acceptable fix, but not a good fix, as it simply transfers the stress points
> outbd to a point that was not really designed to take that stress ie the
> first row of rivets in the spar's first outbd rib on each side.
A tapered doubler that smoothly transitions to the spar would distribute
the loads and not transfer it all to the point where the doubler ends. I
think I have seen doublers that are "laminated", i.e. made up of
multiple layers so you have multiple points where the load is
transferred. Just a thought.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 7
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I am astonished that people are using big wet-acid batteries in 52s - even if they
are not doing aerobatics. With such a light electrical load, one can use
two small and totally sealed batteries; a fraction of the weight; no question
of acid and very cheap!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Dec 14, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> Lead can't see me but #4 can. I would probably start a recovery turn
> and
> #4 should join up on me. I then give him the appropriate HEFO sign and
> pass him the lead as I probably have no radio or navigation equipment
> left to get me home. #4 can inform lead of the problem.
Great stuff, Brian. I knew you were going to salivate over an
electrical issue.... ;) One thing I do not question about Brian is his
knowledge of electrical systems...
By way of addition to Brian's comments, I offer just a point of
technique on joining up on a problem aircraft (military guys jump in
here if I'm missing something). The LAST thing a guy with an emergency
needs is someone right on his wing while trying to troubleshoot. If
you are joining up on a distressed aircraft, make sure to give yourself
plenty of room until you can establish visual contact and know that you
both see each other. This means the assisting aircraft will come more
acute (up to abeam) and with plenty of separation to avoid a collision
should the distressed aircraft turn into you. Transmit to #4 that you
are there and ask how you can help...if you get no response do not
assume that the radios are dead and broadcast in the blind...BUT don't
gum up the freq. with constant chatter, either. If it's just a radio
problem or dead electrical, it's not a big issue and #3 will relatively
quickly wag you in and you can lead 'em back to the barn. The only
thing I can think of that will consume #3's full attention for awhile
is an electrical fire...and then his flying probably won't be very
good, either. ;)
Just remember the distressed aircraft has his/her hands full and you
don't want to add to the problem...or create another hazzard by joining
up tight without #3 requesting it.
Until next time, keep your paint to yourself! ;)
Barry
Message 9
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A Yak was brought to our maintenance facility with the owner complaining of 'fluctuating
oil pressure.'
We checked all obvious things (apart from the oil tank), and in final desperation
turned to the oil tank where there were no less than 12 - yes 12, oil caps
inside!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Richard Goode wrote:
> I am astonished that people are using big wet-acid batteries in 52s -
> even if they are not doing aerobatics. With such a light electrical
> load, one can use two small and totally sealed batteries; a fraction of
> the weight; no question of acid and very cheap!
I agree that one should use sealed batteries in a Yak or CJ6A as the
battery does not need to turn the engine for starting.
Still, Jeff's EPotW #3 is valid even with sealed batteries. If the
battery is grossly abused such as would happen with a runaway generator
or alternator, the battery would vent and could still catch fire and/or
explode. You would still smell "rotten eggs". In fact, a flooded cell
battery can handle more abuse from overcharge than can a sealed cell.
Also, small batteries will fail much more quickly if the voltage
regulator fails and turns the generator or alternator on hard. Also, if
the generator or alternator fails you only have what is in the battery
to run your electrics to get you home, something to think about if you
ever operate your CJ6A or Yak-52 IFR. Small batteries just don't have a
much capacity and won't run your gyros and avionics as long after the
generator goes away.
Which is a good question: does anyone ever operate their CJ6A or Yak-52
IFR? I used to fly my CJ6A IFR pretty regularly but that was light IFR
consisting of either climbing or descending through a layer, shooting
the occasional approach, or just filing IFR at night or when the
conditions were marginal VFR and I knew I had an "out" should the
electrical system pack it in.
Another question on this subject: does the M14P have a pad for a
standard vacuum pump? The reason I ask is that B&C has a really nice 20A
alternator that mounts on a standard vacuum pump pad and can provide
backup power for critical electrics should the main electrical system
fail. This strikes me as a *really* good idea for an all-electric panel.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EP of the Week #3 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Barry Hancock wrote:
> By way of addition to Brian's comments, I offer just a point of
> technique on joining up on a problem aircraft (military guys jump in
> here if I'm missing something). The LAST thing a guy with an emergency
> needs is someone right on his wing while trying to troubleshoot.
Troubleshooting is something you are going to do on the ground. If you
have a problem, try a couple of things and then concentrate on flying
the airplane. Too many people have died "troubleshooting" a problem
in-flight.
If you reread what I wrote, my troubleshooting was limited to turning
off the generator. BTW, I would turn off everything else I wasn't using
too so that I could save what is left of the battery in case I really
needed it. That would probably include the comm radio too.
In the scenario I gave, #3 tries a radio call. It works or it doesn't.
If it does you can coordinate on the radio. If it doesn't, I still hold
that the proper response is to get #4 to rejoin. Now #3 can communicate
with #4 using hand signals. In an emergency like this the engine and
pneumatic system are still running. The afflicted aircraft is in no
immediate danger. #4 joins up, gets passed the lead, and leads #3 home.
No muss, no fuss.
The only one for whom this might be a problem is #4. No one is looking
at him. If #4 has a total electrical failure how does he communicate his
problem to his flight lead? This points out the need to regularly spread
out the flight and let the other guys look in the cockpit and give back
fuel status signals. Eyeballs and hands always work. Radios don't. Does
#4 hang in there for the tail chase (that is why lead spread out the
formation into line astern, right?) and then signal his distress when
lead commands the rejoin? If #4 has a real problem (battery has
exploded) he/she shouldn't be doing any tail-chase. He/she needs to RTB
right-the-flock now. Heck, I don't know. I don't see a really good
answer to this one.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 12
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That's it we have a winner, I just knew there was somebody out there
collecting these things, maybe he wanted to keep the oil aggregated.
:)))
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
A Yak was brought to our maintenance facility with the owner complaining of
'fluctuating oil pressure.'
We checked all obvious things (apart from the oil tank), and in final
desperation turned to the oil tank where there were no less than 12 - yes
12, oil caps inside!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
-
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" nameGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>That's it we have a winner, I just knew there was somebody
out there collecting these things, maybe he wanted to keep the oil
aggregated.
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>:)))
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
USA LIST
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
A Yak was brought to our
maintenance facility with the owner complaining of 'fluctuating oil
pressure.'
We checked all obvious
things (apart from the oil tank), and in final desperation turned to the oil
tank where there were no less than 12 - yes 12, oil caps inside!
Richard
Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds
Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob:
+44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<A
">www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by
http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 13
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|
Or just possibly agitated ? Sort of all shook up.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Fraser, Gus
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil Tank
That's it we have a winner, I just knew there was somebody out there collecting
these things, maybe he wanted to keep the oil aggregated.
:)))
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:06 AM
To: YAK USA LIST
Subject: Yak-List: Oil Tank
A Yak was brought to our maintenance facility with the owner complaining of
'fluctuating oil pressure.'
We checked all obvious things (apart from the oil tank), and in final desperation
turned to the oil tank where there were no less than 12 - yes 12, oil caps
inside!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 14
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I would have assumed that they would have melted.
Ernie
On 12/15/05, Kevin Pilling <pilling.k@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> Or just possibly agitated ? Sort of all shook up.....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> *To:* 'yak-list@matronics.com' <%27yak-list@matronics.com%27>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:43 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> That's it we have a winner, I just knew there was somebody out there
> collecting these things, maybe he wanted to keep the oil aggregated.
>
> :)))
>
> Gus
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Goode
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:06 AM
> *To:* YAK USA LIST
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Oil Tank
>
> A Yak was brought to our maintenance facility with the owner complaining
> of 'fluctuating oil pressure.'
>
> We checked all obvious things (apart from the oil tank), and in final
> desperation turned to the oil tank where there were no less than 12 - yes
> 12, oil caps inside!
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
> dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
> and is believed to be clean.
>
>
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
> Another question on this subject: does the M14P have a pad
> for a standard vacuum pump? The reason I ask is that B&C has
> a really nice 20A alternator that mounts on a standard vacuum
> pump pad and can provide backup power for critical electrics
> should the main electrical system fail. This strikes me as a
> *really* good idea for an all-electric panel.
Don't know about a pad on the M14 but we did install the B&C standby
alternator in the IAR 823 giving us dual source with automatic cutover.
Great little package. With a pair of Concorde RGB 35's in the back we feel
pretty well covered.
Reade
Message 16
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Me to Richard. I personally don't...Dennis would not let me near my YAK if I did.
I think the point of this EP was missed. Did the battery explode or not?
Brian is on the money as he usually always is.
I disagree with the you are in deep kimshi (sp) if you are IFR and had to shut
off the Gen. and the Bat. (which is the first thing to do in this EP). The next
is land as soon as possible. The battery will only give 30 min of power, if
it is still functional but I doubt that since the Amp meter is pegged on discharge.
You are going to loose the DG and your ADI. Since they are both electrical.
As well as the Radios are lost, since you shut off your Bat. in this do you
have an electrical short / fire, generator failure, or did the battery blow
up senario. HEFOE hand signals are definately a player if you are in formation.
You still have the turn and bank (slip) indicator, the altimeter, airspeed and
whiskey compass. So if you are IFR, you are now partial panel. Most of us have
a battery powered GPS. A few of us have a hand held radio we carry also. Now
you can do what you are supposed to do in any aircraft emergency...fly the airplane.
Spinning through the clouds? Have you ever had Vertigo? Do that and I garrentee
you a superb case of it. You will feel like a "Giant Hand" has control of your
aircraft and no matter what you do it will not let you fly the A/C. It only
takes 3-5 seconds of angular movement for the endolymph (the fluid in the inner
ear) to stop moving. The hair cells and cyrstals in the saccule of the semi-cicular
canal (oriented for Roll, pitch, and yaw axis) stop moving despite constant
angular motion. When you try to stop the spin by rudder opposite rotation
that starts the endolymph moving again. This time in the opposite direction.
You then think you have started to roll in the opposite direction so to correct,
you put yourself right back into the spin or spiral (AKA- graveyard spiral).
If spinning through the clouds is my only option, I think I would opt for the
silk let down and step over the side.
Agree with calling Knock it Off. but in an emergency, the emergency aircraft takes
the lead. It becomes the responsibility of the rest of the flight to back
the emergency a/c up on the checklist and help with radio calls. Only if IFR does
2 or 4 stay on the wing until below the weather, stabilized, and then the
lead is passed back to the Emergency aircraft. The emergency is handled as an
element. If in a 4 ship, the other two a/c are sameway..sameday unless called
on for backup.
Linedog...cleared hot with the rest of the EP...Viperdoc's hound-dog!
Viperdoc
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode
Subject: Yak-List: Batteries
I am astonished that people are using big wet-acid batteries in 52s - even if they
are not doing aerobatics. With such a light electrical load, one can use
two small and totally sealed batteries; a fraction of the weight; no question
of acid and very cheap!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
There is a vacuum pump ("auxiliary oil pump") pad on the M14P but it is of
course not an SAE drive. Perhaps an adaptor could be made. It is on the left
side of the rear case
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Batteries
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
>
>
>> Another question on this subject: does the M14P have a pad
>> for a standard vacuum pump? The reason I ask is that B&C has
>> a really nice 20A alternator that mounts on a standard vacuum
>> pump pad and can provide backup power for critical electrics
>> should the main electrical system fail. This strikes me as a
>> *really* good idea for an all-electric panel.
>
> Don't know about a pad on the M14 but we did install the B&C standby
> alternator in the IAR 823 giving us dual source with automatic cutover.
> Great little package. With a pair of Concorde RGB 35's in the back we
> feel
> pretty well covered.
>
> Reade
>
>
>
Message 18
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To clarify something I wrote: I wrote the Emergency A/C is always given the lead.
I needed to say, the Emergency aircraft is always offered the lead. He/She
may chose to shake it off. It is the Emergency A/C's prerogative to decline the
lead.
To the next question of "how does 4 let the flight know he has an EP if in trail
or fighting wing?" As Bdog said, he pulls acute on 3 in ROUTE position. 4 gives
a big wing rock to get 3's attention. From there it is standard HEFOE for
nordo and an Electrical problem. Another way for 4 to get the flights attention,
although not written in the AF regs, is for 4 to squawk 7700 (if he has a
Bat) and nothing has worked on his clueless lead/3. A bit radical but when in
deep kimshi, it is an option.
Viperdoc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
If it don't sound Round...Why listen?
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
OK who out there knows if the YAK snot bottle/valve and CJ snot
bottle/valve are interchangeable.
Steve "SOB" Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Regarding the snap roll on takeoff this link is courtesy of Mark J, this is
Genna doing his thing.
http://www.yakuk.com/video/flickme.wmv
Enjoy
Gus
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Genzlinger, Reade wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
>
>
>
>>Another question on this subject: does the M14P have a pad
>>for a standard vacuum pump? The reason I ask is that B&C has
>>a really nice 20A alternator that mounts on a standard vacuum
>>pump pad and can provide backup power for critical electrics
>>should the main electrical system fail. This strikes me as a
>>*really* good idea for an all-electric panel.
>
>
> Don't know about a pad on the M14 but we did install the B&C standby
> alternator in the IAR 823 giving us dual source with automatic cutover.
> Great little package. With a pair of Concorde RGB 35's in the back we feel
> pretty well covered.
The IAR 823 uses a Lycoming IO-540 if I recall. I know it has a vacuum
pump pad. But I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this
way. If I had a dual source I would probably go with smaller, lighter
batteries as it would take two alternator failures to put me on
battery-only power. And the most likely two-alternator failure would be
one engine failure. At that point you only need about 15 minutes of
power worst case.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Who the hell is Antoine de Saint-Exupery?
Ernie
On 12/15/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> Genzlinger, Reade wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Another question on this subject: does the M14P have a pad
> >>for a standard vacuum pump? The reason I ask is that B&C has
> >>a really nice 20A alternator that mounts on a standard vacuum
> >>pump pad and can provide backup power for critical electrics
> >>should the main electrical system fail. This strikes me as a
> >>*really* good idea for an all-electric panel.
> >
> >
> > Don't know about a pad on the M14 but we did install the B&C standby
> > alternator in the IAR 823 giving us dual source with automatic cutover.
> > Great little package. With a pair of Concorde RGB 35's in the back we feel
> > pretty well covered.
>
> The IAR 823 uses a Lycoming IO-540 if I recall. I know it has a vacuum
> pump pad. But I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this
> way. If I had a dual source I would probably go with smaller, lighter
> batteries as it would take two alternator failures to put me on
> battery-only power. And the most likely two-alternator failure would be
> one engine failure. At that point you only need about 15 minutes of
> power worst case.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> Me to Richard. I personally don't...Dennis would not let me near my YAK
> if I did.
> I think the point of this EP was missed. Did the battery explode or not?
> Brian is on the money as he usually always is.
> I disagree with the you are in deep kimshi (sp) if you are IFR and had
> to shut off the Gen. and the Bat. (which is the first thing to do in
> this EP). The next is land as soon as possible. The battery will only
> give 30 min of power, if it is still functional but I doubt that since
> the Amp meter is pegged on discharge.
Well, it was actually pegged on charge (actually pegged on volts
indicating WAY high volts. That is the real clue to the runaway generator.
> You are going to loose the DG and
> your ADI.
You are going to lose ALL your gyros as your needle-ball is electrical
too. Look Ma! No gyros!
> Since they are both electrical. As well as the Radios are
> lost, since you shut off your Bat. in this do you have an electrical
> short / fire, generator failure, or did the battery blow up senario.
With the generator dumping full output into the batt the odds are pretty
good for spectacular failure.
> HEFOE hand signals are definately a player if you are in formation.
> You still have the turn and bank (slip) indicator,
Nope.
> the altimeter,
> airspeed and whiskey compass. So if you are IFR, you are now partial
> panel.
Worse. No gyros at all. You ARE going to DIE.
> Most of us have a battery powered GPS. A few of us have a hand
> held radio we carry also. Now you can do what you are supposed to do in
> any aircraft emergency...fly the airplane.
> Spinning through the clouds? Have you ever had Vertigo? Do that and I
> garrentee you a superb case of it.
Dude, you are going to get vertigo anyway as you have NO GYROS. The
advantage of a spin is that it is a stable steady-state maneuver with a
reasonable rate of almost vertical descent. If you break out with say a
1000' ceiling you now have visual and can recover visually from the
spin. The spin is slow and stable. A spiral can tear your airplane up as
the G forces and airspeed are way high.
Someone help me here.
> You will feel like a "Giant Hand" has
> control of your aircraft and no matter what you do it will not let you
> fly the A/C. It only takes 3-5 seconds of angular movement for the
> endolymph (the fluid in the inner ear) to stop moving. The hair cells
> and cyrstals in the saccule of the semi-cicular canal (oriented for
> Roll, pitch, and yaw axis) stop moving despite constant angular motion.
> When you try to stop the spin by rudder opposite rotation that starts
> the endolymph moving again. This time in the opposite direction. You
> then think you have started to roll in the opposite direction so to
> correct, you put yourself right back into the spin or spiral (AKA-
> graveyard spiral).
Right. This is why you cannot fly IFR without gyros. Spin is slow and
stable and the airplane will stay in it steady state without the pilot
having to do anything. Think about it.
> If spinning through the clouds is my only option, I
> think I would opt for the silk let down and step over the side.
That is certainly an option and a good one if you are IFR and end up
with no electrical at all in a CJ or Yak-52. OTOH, if you know the
ceiling is high enough you might opt to save the airplane. Just a thought.
> Agree with calling Knock it Off. but in an emergency, the emergency
> aircraft takes the lead.
Uh, that is what I was trying to do. Remember #3 has a problem but
neither #1, #2, nor #4 know it. No radio, right? How does #3 get the
message to anyone? He has to get one of them to come up close enough to
look at him. I make that happen by having #3 rock wings and start the
rejoin. #4 is #3 wingman, right? #4 does what #3 tells him to, right? If
#3 starts a rejoin, #4 will rejoin. Now #4 is close enough to see the
HEFO sign.
> It becomes the responsibility of the rest of
> the flight to back the emergency a/c up on the checklist and help with
> radio calls. Only if IFR does 2 or 4 stay on the wing until below the
> weather, stabilized, and then the lead is passed back to the Emergency
> aircraft. The emergency is handled as an element. If in a 4 ship, the
> other two a/c are sameway..sameday unless called on for backup.
The problem is how to let the rest of the flight know you have a
problem. No electrical. No radio. Somehow you have to get at least one
other to know. He can then tell the world.
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why, in this scenario
with #3 having the problem, how having #3 recover #4 on his wing and
then HEFO and pass the lead is NOT the right answer.
Sometimes I think you guys try to make this stuff harder than it is.
Oh, and I am still looking for how to help #4 if it is his battery that
goes BANG. Ideas?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Walter Lannon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> There is a vacuum pump ("auxiliary oil pump") pad on the M14P but it is
> of course not an SAE drive. Perhaps an adaptor could be made. It is on
> the left side of the rear case
Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do, especially with the
proliferation of glass in the panel.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 25
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| Subject: | Yak52 TW Canopy Cover |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
I need to purchase a cover, can someone suggest a good source?
Thanks
David McGirt
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> To clarify something I wrote: I wrote the Emergency A/C is always given
> the lead. I needed to say, the Emergency aircraft is always offered the
> lead. He/She may chose to shake it off. It is the Emergency A/C's
> prerogative to decline the lead.
With no electrical the emergency A/C isn't likely to be able to
navigate, talk, or squawk. That is why I just assumed that #3 would hand
the lead to #4.
> To the next question of "how does 4 let the flight know he has an EP if
> in trail or fighting wing?" As Bdog said, he pulls acute on 3 in ROUTE
> position. 4 gives a big wing rock to get 3's attention.
Yeah, that works assuming that #4 has enough to rejoin #3 on a
straight-ahead run. Kerosene burners have options that Yak-52 drivers
might not. If lead starts a tail chase how does #4 pull acute? But I
agree that it is the only option I can think of.
> From there it
> is standard HEFOE for nordo and an Electrical problem. Another way for
> 4 to get the flights attention, although not written in the AF regs, is
> for 4 to squawk 7700 (if he has a Bat)
And we already know that isn't the case.
> and nothing has worked on his
> clueless lead/3. A bit radical but when in deep kimshi, it is an option.
One always does what one can. A 3 second burst with tracer would
probably work too but not in this scenario.
And I am not trying to be a butt-head on this one. I really am trying to
think this out.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Who the hell is Antoine de Saint-Exupery?
He was a famous French pilot from the golden age of flying. He was lost
in 1944 while flying his last mission in a P-38. He was not only a great
pilot but also a great writer. "The Little Prince" is probably his
best-known work.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupery
His books "Southern Mail", "Night Flight", "Wind, Sand, and Stars", and
"Flight to Arras" rank up there among the best flying stories ever
written. He is arguably one of the best pilot-authors if not the best
ever to have published.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52 TW Canopy Cover |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
David McGirt wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
>
> I need to purchase a cover, can someone suggest a good source?
Bruce's Custom Covers. http://www.aircraftcovers.com/
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 29
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Just remember, the Yak 52 does have over voltage protection. Although somewhat
difficult to reset during flight, it could be done with some effort.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Doc Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Batteries
Me to Richard. I personally don't...Dennis would not let me near my YAK if I
did.
I think the point of this EP was missed. Did the battery explode or not?
Brian is on the money as he usually always is.
I disagree with the you are in deep kimshi (sp) if you are IFR and had to shut
off the Gen. and the Bat. (which is the first thing to do in this EP). The next
is land as soon as possible. The battery will only give 30 min of power, if
it is still functional but I doubt that since the Amp meter is pegged on discharge.
You are going to loose the DG and your ADI. Since they are both electrical.
As well as the Radios are lost, since you shut off your Bat. in this do
you have an electrical short / fire, generator failure, or did the battery blow
up senario. HEFOE hand signals are definately a player if you are in formation.
You still have the turn and bank (slip) indicator, the altimeter, airspeed and
whiskey compass. So if you are IFR, you are now partial panel. Most of us have
a battery powered GPS. A few of us have a hand held radio we carry also. Now
you can do what you are supposed to do in any aircraft emergency...fly the
airplane.
Spinning through the clouds? Have you ever had Vertigo? Do that and I garrentee
you a superb case of it. You will feel like a "Giant Hand" has control of your
aircraft and no matter what you do it will not let you fly the A/C. It only
takes 3-5 seconds of angular movement for the endolymph (the fluid in the inner
ear) to stop moving. The hair cells and cyrstals in the saccule of the semi-cicular
canal (oriented for Roll, pitch, and yaw axis) stop moving despite constant
angular motion. When you try to stop the spin by rudder opposite rotation
that starts the endolymph moving again. This time in the opposite direction.
You then think you have started to roll in the opposite direction so to correct,
you put yourself right back into the spin or spiral (AKA- graveyard spiral).
If spinning through the clouds is my only option, I think I would opt for
the silk let down and step over the side.
Agree with calling Knock it Off. but in an emergency, the emergency aircraft
takes the lead. It becomes the responsibility of the rest of the flight to back
the emergency a/c up on the checklist and help with radio calls. Only if IFR
does 2 or 4 stay on the wing until below the weather, stabilized, and then the
lead is passed back to the Emergency aircraft. The emergency is handled as an
element. If in a 4 ship, the other two a/c are sameway..sameday unless called
on for backup.
Linedog...cleared hot with the rest of the EP...Viperdoc's hound-dog!
Viperdoc
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode
To: YAK USA LIST
Sent: 12/15/2005 10:01:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Batteries
I am astonished that people are using big wet-acid batteries in 52s - even
if they are not doing aerobatics. With such a light electrical load, one can
use two small and totally sealed batteries; a fraction of the weight; no question
of acid and very cheap!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52 TW Canopy Cover |
Contact Bruce's Custom Covers. Makes both Y52 and CJ covers.
http://www.aircraftcovers.com/
Merry Christmas & Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
The RPA Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-380-0907 Eves
414-307-2405 Days
http://www.flyredstar.org/StoreCSVS/default.aspx
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