Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Re: Re: Re: Vote (AEROSTAR)
2. 12:37 AM - prop pitch (Mark Jefferies YAK Uk)
3. 05:44 AM - Overhead Breaks (Craig Payne)
4. 05:53 AM - Re: EFIS-D10A - Yak 52-TW (Fraser, Gus)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: Air bottles (Fraser, Gus)
6. 08:15 AM - Re: Air bottles (Dave Laird)
7. 09:21 AM - Re: Air bottles (Fraser, Gus)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: Air bottles (Dave Laird)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: Overhead Breaks (ByronMFox@aol.com)
10. 10:51 AM - Re: Overhead Breaks (Roger Doc Kemp)
11. 11:11 AM - Re: Air bottles (doug sapp)
12. 11:17 AM - Re: Air bottles (Roger Doc Kemp)
13. 11:44 AM - Re: Air bottles (Jim Bernier)
14. 11:55 AM - Re: Air bottles (Dave Laird)
15. 12:14 PM - Re: Air bottles (Hans Oortman)
16. 12:17 PM - Re: Air bottles (doug sapp)
17. 01:14 PM - Re: slow airleak (philip dugan)
18. 01:15 PM - Re: Air bottles (Jim Bernier)
19. 01:19 PM - Re: Air bottles (Roger Doc Kemp)
20. 01:41 PM - Prop governor springs (Barry Hancock)
21. 02:18 PM - Re: Air bottles (Roger Doc Kemp)
22. 02:52 PM - Re: slow airleak (cjpilot710@aol.com)
23. 03:23 PM - Re: Air bottles (doug sapp)
24. 05:58 PM - Re: slow airleak (ggg6@att.net)
25. 06:47 PM - Re: Air bottles (Roger Kemp)
26. 07:38 PM - Re: Air bottles (Samuel Sax)
27. 07:53 PM - Re: Air bottles (Walter Lannon)
28. 08:31 PM - Re: Air bottles (Walter Lannon)
29. 09:12 PM - Air bottles (Frank Haertlein)
30. 11:45 PM - Re: Air bottles (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "AEROSTAR" <aerostar@aerostar.ro>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Re: Vote
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
> >
> > brian, maybe you just need to go fly and release yourself from the
> > tyranny of this petty thing :)
>
> I did. Great day. I introduced my girlfriend's grandkids to general
> aviation. Her granddaughter (age 15) was at first afraid to fly but then
> went with us anyway. I finally got her into the right seat and showed
> her how to make the airplane turn. I think I made a convert.
>
> Yeah, it was a good day.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Craig, I think you will find the one that's least course is for the Yak 50.
Still there are very few of those "rings" about.
Cheers, mj
Time:
04:30:55 AM PST US
From:
"Craig Payne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Subject:
Prop Parts and Pitch
I'll admit that I'm always learning something new about these
aircraft....no matter
how long I'm around them. Since purchasing a brand new Vperiod B-530
TA six
years ago I have learned lots of *stuff* about it, which parts
interchange
with the CJ prop, what is under the paint on the blades, etc. I have
always known
that the Russian paddle blades came in different blade diameters but I
had
assumed that everything in the hub was the same between different
versions.
And, I always wondered why I was unable to reduce RPM down to the
Cruise II setting.
Turns out that there are different sizes of that little metal ring
that
is attached to the end of the prop dome piston with those flat cotter
pins. "Duh",
my brain said when I measured the amount of coarse pitch travel that
this
removeable ring limits. Just 1/8" difference in ring thickness makes a
big difference.
Now, I'm going to get some real economy :>)
Craig Payne
Message 3
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While watching numerous warbird groups and acro groups like the Red Barons over
at Lakeland, I'm amazed at how good they are at just about everything...except
the break. Yesterday I really saw what happens in slow motion (Stearman's).
I believe that the 4-ship 360 break IS the single hardest maneuver to get right.
RedStar pilots usually do a good job but seeing it go wrong in slow motion brings
home the importance of timing the break, flying the same line and maintaining
the interval and glideslope angle. Were there any specific aerial practice
maneuvers used in military training to sharpen up the 4-ship break?
Craig Payne
Message 4
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| Subject: | EFIS-D10A - Yak 52-TW |
The D10A gives out data in parallel for the transponder. The install is
really easy. If you want to take advantage of the Angle of Attack feature
you will have to modify the pitot static system. What I did on my SP-91 was
as follows.
There are two lines coming from the pitot tube. There are two lines needed
for the Dynon P-S probe. Dynon requires Pitot and AOA (it is a second pitot
at an angle and it derives aoa by a differential between the pitot and aoa
pressure. I moved my static source to the rear fuselage, I put a static vent
on each side of the fuse and ran a new line to the panels. I then used the
old static line as the aoa pressure feed. It is worth doing especially on a
tail dragger with poor forward vis and short fields :)))
The electrical installation is easy for pictures of my installation see
http://www.notasukhoi.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?mode=view
<http://www.notasukhoi.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?mode=view&album=/Modifica
tions> &album=/Modifications
Hope this helps
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McGirt
Subject: RE: Yak-List: EFIS-D10A - Yak 52-TW
Did you install it yourself? Hard to do? I have a Garmin transponder,
anything special to worry about there?
Thanks for any help... It seems like a very simple and easy install, and a
great addition to the plane..
David
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bpx2horn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EFIS-D10A - Yak 52-TW
Yes I have a D10A in my plane and took out the vacume pump. I am very happy
with it and its ablity to not get lost unless the acro gets extreme. If it
does get lost after some spins or snaps it takes just a few moments to
realign after flying straight and level. The best part is there is no moving
parts to wear out.
Paul Hornick
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<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>The D10A gives out data in parallel for the transponder.
The install is really easy. If you want to take advantage of the Angle of Attack
feature you will have to modify the pitot static system. What I did on my SP-91
was as follows.
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>There are two lines coming from the pitot tube. There are
two lines needed for the Dynon P-S probe. Dynon requires Pitot and AOA (it is a
second pitot at an angle and it derives aoa by a differential between the pitot
and aoa pressure. I moved my static source to the rear fuselage, I put a static
vent on each side of the fuse and ran a new line to the panels. I then used the
old static line as the aoa pressure feed. It is worth doing especially on a tail
dragger with poor forward vis and short fields :)))
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>The electrical installation is easy for pictures of my
installation see
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2><A
">http://www.notasukhoi.com/cgi-bin/photo/index.cgi?modeviewalbum/Modifications
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>Hope this helps
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>
<FONT faceArial
color#0000ff size2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
McGirt
To:
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: EFIS-D10A - Yak
52-TW
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Did you install it
yourself? Hard to do? I have a Garmin transponder, anything
special to worry about there?
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for any help...
It seems like a very simple and easy install, and a great addition to the
plane..
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<FONT
face"Times New Roman" size3>
<SPAN
style"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:<FONT
faceTahoma size2>
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] <SPAN
style"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of bpx2horn@aol.com
<SPAN
style"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 7:39
PM
w:st"on">yak-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName>
<SPAN
style"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: Re: Yak-List: EFIS-D10A - Yak
52-TW
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Yes I have a D10A in my plane
and took out the vacume pump. I am very happy with it and its ablity to not
get lost unless the acro gets extreme. If it does get lost after some spins or
snapsit takes just a few moments to realign after flying straight and
level.The best part is there is no moving parts to wear
out.
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Paul
Hornick
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
<DIV idAOLMsgPart_2_7db51d9e-c596-4867-8dc2-0d4a7eed9100>
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<SPAN
style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have changed. I
now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a regulator to
800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme sport in the
US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a refill.
The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up little
space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I used to
be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered something:
When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping the CJ is
really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA fitting
is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around hasn't been
something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far, after 1,200
hours.
Jon
> I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
> SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
> you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A schraeder
> fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does the
> same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not worth
> the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe fitting
> and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting to keeo
the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
> However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
> safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
> have no brakes!
>
> Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
>
> Joe
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
I also have a paintball tank...
I get it filled from either a paintball store, or a scuba place...
the scuba guys use really good 4 stage compressors with filters and
there is very little moisture in the air at that pressure, and oh,
best of all, the scuba place I go to doesn't even charge for
a paintball bottle refill!!!
Mine is a 72ci bottle with 800psi on the output, too... mine is only
rated for 3000psi... but was cheap. about 80 bucks.
I also have a screw on regulator for it that lets me regulate down to
350psi for the nose strut. I use it straight out at 800psi
for the main struts.
I have not used it to fill the CJ's main air tank (yet) but have
wondered if the CJ tank is all the way down, and I have a 72ci tank
of 3000psi air, how "full" would the CJ tank be after "emptying" the
72ci paintball tank into the CJ?
anyone know?
Gus?
( I just haven't run out of air in Betty, and besides, Brian put that
scuba tank in her too!)
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:03 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have
> changed. I
> now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a
> regulator to
> 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme
> sport in the
> US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a
> refill.
> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up
> little
> space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I
> used to
> be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered something:
>
> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping
> the CJ is
> really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>
> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
> fitting
> is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around
> hasn't been
> something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far,
> after 1,200
> hours.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
>> SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
>> you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A
>> schraeder
>> fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does the
>> same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not worth
>> the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe fitting
>> and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting
>> to keeo
>>
> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
>
>> However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
>> safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
>> have no brakes!
>>
>> Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
>>
>> Joe
>>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
David,
Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main tank. Treat
the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your small
tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
I also have a paintball tank...
I get it filled from either a paintball store, or a scuba place...
the scuba guys use really good 4 stage compressors with filters and there is
very little moisture in the air at that pressure, and oh, best of all, the
scuba place I go to doesn't even charge for a paintball bottle refill!!!
Mine is a 72ci bottle with 800psi on the output, too... mine is only rated
for 3000psi... but was cheap. about 80 bucks.
I also have a screw on regulator for it that lets me regulate down to 350psi
for the nose strut. I use it straight out at 800psi for the main struts.
I have not used it to fill the CJ's main air tank (yet) but have wondered if
the CJ tank is all the way down, and I have a 72ci tank of 3000psi air, how
"full" would the CJ tank be after "emptying" the 72ci paintball tank into
the CJ?
anyone know?
Gus?
( I just haven't run out of air in Betty, and besides, Brian put that scuba
tank in her too!)
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:03 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have
> changed. I now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank
> with a regulator to 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest
> growing extreme sport in the US and shops for this are popping up all
> over the place if I need a refill.
> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up
> little space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I
> used to be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered
> something:
>
> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping the
> CJ is really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>
> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
> fitting is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around
> hasn't been something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so
> far, after 1,200 hours.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
>> SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
>> you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A
>> schraeder fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system
>> does the same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is
>> not worth the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4
>> pipe fitting and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the
>> fitting to keeo
>>
> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
>
>> However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
>> safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
>> have no brakes!
>>
>> Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
>>
>> Joe
>>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> David,
> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main
> tank. Treat
> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
> small
> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>
> Gus
>
cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this
week and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it
out!
Dave
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead Breaks |
In a message dated 1/3/2006 5:45:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cpayne@joimail.com writes:
Were there any specific aerial practice maneuvers used in military training
to sharpen up the 4-ship break?
While I'm looking back through the fog of 40 years, I can't recall any
guidance in the USAF except to maintain safe spacing. ...Blitz
Message 10
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Craig,
I was taught intially 60 degrees bank, 2 G's, and align the wingtip on the downwind
edge of the runway. Roll off the perch when the leading edge of the wingtip
is on the departure end of the runway. For the Viper we are flying a tactical
overhead. Different than finger tip. Can go to AFM3-1, but I will have to wait
until I get to the squadron later this week to do that.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
Subject: Yak-List: Overhead Breaks
While watching numerous warbird groups and acro groups like the Red Barons over
at Lakeland, I'm amazed at how good they are at just about everything...except
the break. Yesterday I really saw what happens in slow motion (Stearman's).
I believe that the 4-ship 360 break IS the single hardest maneuver to get right.
RedStar pilots usually do a good job but seeing it go wrong in slow motion brings
home the importance of timing the break, flying the same line and maintaining
the interval and glideslope angle. Were there any specific aerial practice
maneuvers used in military training to sharpen up the 4-ship break?
Craig Payne
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Remember that 750PSI is 51 atms. While this is just 1 ATM over the
operating pressure I would recommend that you use a bit of caution if your
bottle has not been off and tested recently. If it has been tested
recently, I doubt that you have anything to worry about. The CJ6 tech
manual says that operating pressure is 50 atms (page 104) and that the 8
liter tank should fill in 22 minutes (page 107).
As a group we have been extremely lucky in that we have not had any main air
bottles explode yet (that I know of). I would caution you all to not become
complacent and feel that because we have not had a failure that this is
really not a potentially serious problem. A in-flight failure could have
very serious consequences. If your bottle has not been checked, get it
done, record it in the log book, it's very cheap insurance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> David,
> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main
> tank. Treat
> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
> small
> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>
> Gus
>
cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this
week and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it
out!
Dave
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Gus,
Send me pictures of your tank. I am using a pony tank for backup.
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/3/2006 8:04:12 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have changed. I
> now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a regulator
to
> 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme sport in
the
> US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a
refill.
> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up little
> space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I used to
> be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered something:
>
> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping the CJ
is
> really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>
> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
fitting
> is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around hasn't been
> something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far, after 1,200
> hours.
>
> Jon
>
> > I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
> > SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
> > you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A schraeder
> > fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does the
> > same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not worth
> > the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe fitting
> > and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting to keeo
> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
> > However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
> > safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
> > have no brakes!
> >
> > Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
> >
> > Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Dave,
When solving for this pressure drop I get 385 psi final pressure. That is using
Doug's 8 liter bottle and Boyles Law. I trust that he is correct. I assumed that
the main tank was empty. That turns out to be 27 atm. I have started my plane
on the amount. The plus side is that you will have over 9 liters of air at
that pressure instead of 8, if you leave the bottle connected. When you empty
the tank, then fill it from the paint gun bottle, try to start it cold. That
will be the final test. But here in Dallas it isn't really cold, ever.
You never know for certain until you try.
Jim B
>>> rvfltd@televar.com 01/03/06 1:10 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Remember that 750PSI is 51 atms. While this is just 1 ATM over the
operating pressure I would recommend that you use a bit of caution if your
bottle has not been off and tested recently. If it has been tested
recently, I doubt that you have anything to worry about. The CJ6 tech
manual says that operating pressure is 50 atms (page 104) and that the 8
liter tank should fill in 22 minutes (page 107).
As a group we have been extremely lucky in that we have not had any main air
bottles explode yet (that I know of). I would caution you all to not become
complacent and feel that because we have not had a failure that this is
really not a potentially serious problem. A in-flight failure could have
very serious consequences. If your bottle has not been checked, get it
done, record it in the log book, it's very cheap insurance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> David,
> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main
> tank. Treat
> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
> small
> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>
> Gus
>
cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this
week and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it
out!
Dave
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
Thanks Jim,
I'll post the results when I (carefully) do the test.
Dave
On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Jim Bernier wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
>
> Dave,
> When solving for this pressure drop I get 385 psi final pressure.
> That is using Doug's 8 liter bottle and Boyles Law. I trust that he
> is correct. I assumed that the main tank was empty. That turns out
> to be 27 atm. I have started my plane on the amount. The plus side
> is that you will have over 9 liters of air at that pressure instead
> of 8, if you leave the bottle connected. When you empty the tank,
> then fill it from the paint gun bottle, try to start it cold. That
> will be the final test. But here in Dallas it isn't really cold, ever.
> You never know for certain until you try.
> Jim B
>
Message 15
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Guys,
The only thing we carry around during a trip in our Yak52 is a hose, which I
had made especially for this purpose, with on one side an adapter which goes
on the plane and on the other side an adapter with release valve which goes
on a scuba dive bottle. In Europe this is a standardized connector, i.e.,
these scuba dive bottles have the same connector as all air bottles used by
the fire brigades at airfields/airports and what have you.
There is always a nice fire fighter at an airport or airfield who wants to
give you a hand to charge your air bottle in the plane with one of his.
Be aware though: these bottles have 200 bars (and nowadays even 300 bars),
so open them very slowly. We are using this method since years already and
it works perfectly.
Hans
Yak52 pilot from Holland
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Doc Kemp
Verzonden: dinsdag 3 januari 2006 20:17
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Gus,
Send me pictures of your tank. I am using a pony tank for backup.
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/3/2006 8:04:12 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have changed. I
> now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a regulator
to
> 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme sport in
the
> US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a
refill.
> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up little
> space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I used to
> be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered something:
>
> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping the CJ
is
> really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>
> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
fitting
> is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around hasn't been
> something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far, after 1,200
> hours.
>
> Jon
>
> > I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
> > SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
> > you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A schraeder
> > fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does the
> > same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not worth
> > the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe fitting
> > and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting to keeo
> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
> > However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
> > safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
> > have no brakes!
> >
> > Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
> >
> > Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Jim,
Many thanks for the heads up/correction, I did not check the numbers and am
guilty of assuming that they were correct. You owe me a beer Gus!
What exactly is Boyles law?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Bernier
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Dave,
When solving for this pressure drop I get 385 psi final pressure. That is
using Doug's 8 liter bottle and Boyles Law. I trust that he is correct. I
assumed that the main tank was empty. That turns out to be 27 atm. I have
started my plane on the amount. The plus side is that you will have over 9
liters of air at that pressure instead of 8, if you leave the bottle
connected. When you empty the tank, then fill it from the paint gun bottle,
try to start it cold. That will be the final test. But here in Dallas it
isn't really cold, ever.
You never know for certain until you try.
Jim B
>>> rvfltd@televar.com 01/03/06 1:10 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Remember that 750PSI is 51 atms. While this is just 1 ATM over the
operating pressure I would recommend that you use a bit of caution if your
bottle has not been off and tested recently. If it has been tested
recently, I doubt that you have anything to worry about. The CJ6 tech
manual says that operating pressure is 50 atms (page 104) and that the 8
liter tank should fill in 22 minutes (page 107).
As a group we have been extremely lucky in that we have not had any main air
bottles explode yet (that I know of). I would caution you all to not become
complacent and feel that because we have not had a failure that this is
really not a potentially serious problem. A in-flight failure could have
very serious consequences. If your bottle has not been checked, get it
done, record it in the log book, it's very cheap insurance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> David,
> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main
> tank. Treat
> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
> small
> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>
> Gus
>
cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this
week and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it
out!
Dave
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "philip dugan" <philipdugan1@msn.com>
'83 CJ6A recent slow leak, 6-10 atmos in 3-4days. Suggestions to limit my
search,thanks, [philipdugan1@msn.com]
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Doug,
Boyle's Law simply says that the initial pressure over the final pressure is equal
to the final volume over the initial volume. Or, with constant temperature,
the volume of a given mass of gas is inversely proportional to the pressure
which is exerted upon it. I cheated and looked it up.
So, is it 8 liters or 6? Makes a big difference in pressure. If it 6 liters then
the resulting pressure would be 493 psi, 33.5 atm.
Jim
>>> rvfltd@televar.com 01/03/06 2:16 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Jim,
Many thanks for the heads up/correction, I did not check the numbers and am
guilty of assuming that they were correct. You owe me a beer Gus!
What exactly is Boyles law?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Bernier
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Dave,
When solving for this pressure drop I get 385 psi final pressure. That is
using Doug's 8 liter bottle and Boyles Law. I trust that he is correct. I
assumed that the main tank was empty. That turns out to be 27 atm. I have
started my plane on the amount. The plus side is that you will have over 9
liters of air at that pressure instead of 8, if you leave the bottle
connected. When you empty the tank, then fill it from the paint gun bottle,
try to start it cold. That will be the final test. But here in Dallas it
isn't really cold, ever.
You never know for certain until you try.
Jim B
>>> rvfltd@televar.com 01/03/06 1:10 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Remember that 750PSI is 51 atms. While this is just 1 ATM over the
operating pressure I would recommend that you use a bit of caution if your
bottle has not been off and tested recently. If it has been tested
recently, I doubt that you have anything to worry about. The CJ6 tech
manual says that operating pressure is 50 atms (page 104) and that the 8
liter tank should fill in 22 minutes (page 107).
As a group we have been extremely lucky in that we have not had any main air
bottles explode yet (that I know of). I would caution you all to not become
complacent and feel that because we have not had a failure that this is
really not a potentially serious problem. A in-flight failure could have
very serious consequences. If your bottle has not been checked, get it
done, record it in the log book, it's very cheap insurance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> David,
> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main
> tank. Treat
> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
> small
> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>
> Gus
>
cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this
week and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it
out!
Dave
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> [Original Message]> What exactly is Boyles law?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
Doug,
Boyles law states that " when the temperature rmeans constant, the volume
of agiven mass of gas baries inversely as it pressure" Expressed as
follows:
V1/V2 = P1/P2
Where V1 is the initial volume: V2 is the final volume: P1 is the initial
pressure: and P2 is the final pressure.
For Physiological purposes, Boyle's Law can be considerd a precise
statement of facts. Under high-pressure situations, however, Boyle's Law is
only an approximate statement because of the attraction of the gas
molecules for each other increases the effect of applied pressure and the
space occupied by the molecules themselves, which in effect decreases the
effective volume.
Doc
Message 20
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| Subject: | Prop governor springs |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Hi Gang,
I'm looking for a set of standard prop governor springs for the
M14P....anybody have a set they can part with? Please contact me off
list at bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com
Thanks!
Barry
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
[Original Message]> What exactly is Boyles law?
> Boyles law states that " when the temperature remains constant, the
volume
> of a given mass of a gas varies inversely with it's pressure" Expressed
as
> follows:
>
> V1/V2 = P1/P2
> Where V1 is the initial volume: V2 is the final volume: P1 is the initial
> pressure: and P2 is the final pressure.
> For Physiological purposes, Boyle's Law can be considerd a precise
> statement of facts. Under high-pressure situations, however, Boyle's Law
is
> only an approximate statement of the facts because the attraction of the
> molecules for each other increases the effect of applied pressure and the
> space occupied by the molecules themselves, which decreases the
> effective volume.
>
> Doc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: slow airleak |
'83 CJ6A recent slow leak, 6-10 atmos in 3-4days. Suggestions to limit my
search,thanks, [philipdugan1@msn.com]
Philip,
The first place to look is the main air valve. It could be there or the
line coming off the tank. That line - I believe - is one piece from the tank
to
the main air valve.
The valve itself is ordinary steel but the valve seat is aluminum. A
natural for rusted up valve or corrosion on the seat.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Roger,
Thanks much, great post, very helpful :0)
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> [Original Message]> What exactly is Boyles law?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
Doug,
Boyles law states that " when the temperature rmeans constant, the volume
of agiven mass of gas baries inversely as it pressure" Expressed as
follows:
V1/V2 = P1/P2
Where V1 is the initial volume: V2 is the final volume: P1 is the initial
pressure: and P2 is the final pressure.
For Physiological purposes, Boyle's Law can be considerd a precise
statement of facts. Under high-pressure situations, however, Boyle's Law is
only an approximate statement because of the attraction of the gas
molecules for each other increases the effect of applied pressure and the
space occupied by the molecules themselves, which in effect decreases the
effective volume.
Doc
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: slow airleak |
Hi Phil, Gary in LAS here, My CJ for the first seveal years I owned it, setting
with the air valve turned off, would loose no air down stream of the air valve
setting for weeks, then a couple of years ago it started loosing air pressure
on the gauge when it sat with the air valve turned off, the gauge would read
zero, I found out that the leak was because the Nose Gear Retract Cyl. Seals
were slowly leaking the air while the acft sat for a number of days. Have since
overhauled all the retract Cyls. and it can sit for weeks now and no lose of
pressure on the air gauge... this may not be your problem, just a heads up
on the retract cyl. seals....Gary Gabbard N22YK
-------------- Original message from cjpilot710@aol.com: --------------
'83 CJ6A recent slow leak, 6-10 atmos in 3-4days. Suggestions to limit my
search,thanks, [philipdugan1@msn.com]
Philip,
The first place to look is the main air valve. It could be there or the line coming
off the tank. That line - I believe - is one piece from the tank to the
main air valve.
The valve itself is ordinary steel but the valve seat is aluminum. A natural for
rusted up valve or corrosion on the seat.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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Hi Phil, Gary in LAS here, My CJ for the firstseveal years I owned it, settingwith
the air valve turned off,would loose no air down stream of the air valvesetting
for weeks, then a couple of years ago it started loosing air pressure on
the gauge when it sat with the air valve turned off, the gauge would read zero,I
found out that the leak was because the Nose Gear Retract Cyl. Seals were
slowly leaking the air while the acft sat for a number of days. Have since overhauled
all the retract Cyls. and it can sit for weeks now and no lose of pressure
on the air gauge... this may not be your problem, just a heads up on the
retract cyl. seals....Gary Gabbard N22YK
-------------- Original message from cjpilot710@aol.com: --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1522" name=GENERATOR><FONT id=role_document face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
'83 CJ6A recent slow leak, 6-10 atmos in 3-4days. Suggestions to limit my
search,thanks, [philipdugan1@msn.com]
<EM>Philip,</EM>
<EM></EM>
<EM>The first place to look is the main air valve. It could be there or the line
coming off the tank. That line - I believe - is one piece from the tank to the
main air valve.</EM>
<EM></EM>
<EM>The valve itself is ordinary steel but the valve seat is aluminum. A natural
for rusted up valve or corrosion on the seat.</EM>
<EM></EM>
<EM>Jim "Pappy" Goolsby</EM>
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Doug,
I hope you read the corrected version. This one looks like gobbly-gook! My
nurse came an grabbed me as I was trying ti rapidly type the answer out.
Anyway, hit send inadvertently as I going to help her. ;)
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: doug sapp <rvfltd@televar.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/3/2006 5:22:44 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Roger,
> Thanks much, great post, very helpful :0)
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Doc Kemp
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:19 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>
> > [Original Message]> What exactly is Boyles law?
> >
> > Always Yakin,
> > Doug Sapp
>
> Doug,
> Boyles law states that " when the temperature rmeans constant, the volume
> of agiven mass of gas baries inversely as it pressure" Expressed as
> follows:
>
> V1/V2 = P1/P2
> Where V1 is the initial volume: V2 is the final volume: P1 is the initial
> pressure: and P2 is the final pressure.
> For Physiological purposes, Boyle's Law can be considerd a precise
> statement of facts. Under high-pressure situations, however, Boyle's Law
is
> only an approximate statement because of the attraction of the gas
> molecules for each other increases the effect of applied pressure and the
> space occupied by the molecules themselves, which in effect decreases the
> effective volume.
>
> Doc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Samuel Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Doug,
This is a very good and important point!
This topic was discussed before right after the Emergency Air Tank exploded
in the Yak-50 in England... He was really lucky as this occurred as he was
taxiing out for take off... You used mild words for the potential
consequence for in-flight failure. I suspect that when this 'baby' goes off
in flight it could very well separate the structure behind the rear seat
outright or sever enough longerons etc. that the aerodynamic load would
finish the job. Some of the engineers on this here list could calculate the
energy release upon such failure for either the main or emergency tanks (CJ
main air tank is larger than the Yak-50, 52). Either way, even if the
structure holds to landing, I suspect that the pilot would need to launder
his flight suits a couple of times while the GIB will need to be carried out
of the aircraft.
I think there is a shop in California who does pressure tests for our air
tanks, does anyone have their contact info handy?
Thanks,
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Remember that 750PSI is 51 atms. While this is just 1 ATM over the
operating pressure I would recommend that you use a bit of caution if your
bottle has not been off and tested recently. If it has been tested
recently, I doubt that you have anything to worry about. The CJ6 tech
manual says that operating pressure is 50 atms (page 104) and that the 8
liter tank should fill in 22 minutes (page 107).
As a group we have been extremely lucky in that we have not had any main air
bottles explode yet (that I know of). I would caution you all to not become
complacent and feel that because we have not had a failure that this is
really not a potentially serious problem. A in-flight failure could have
very serious consequences. If your bottle has not been checked, get it
done, record it in the log book, it's very cheap insurance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Dave;
The CJ air tanks are 12 liters (main) and 3 liters (emerg). With the main
air valve open both tanks are charged from the external supply (or from the
compressor)
With the main air valve closed only the small emergency tank will be
charged.
Arithmetic gives me a headache but here are some numbers for you that
suggest you treat that 3000 psi bottle with great respect.
1. Don't know the actual size of your paintball tank but lets call it 6" dia
X 24" long. That represents an internal volume of 0.3927 cu. ft.
Into that is packed 72 cu ft of air or 183 tank volumes.
2. One paintball tank volume (0.3927 cu ft) = 11.12 liters
3. Without getting too involved in the arithmetic that means when you
transfer that 3000 psi to the CJ main you would theoretically have slightly
less than 3000 psi in that tank. If your paintball tank volume is less than
my estimate then you will have more than 3000 psi. Theoretically of course
since the CJ tank (and/or most of the aircraft) would have exploded long
before then.
Please be very cautious. You are dealing with a bomb
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Laird" <dave@davelaird.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>
>> David,
>> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main tank.
>> Treat
>> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
>> small
>> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>>
>> Gus
>>
>
> cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this week
> and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it out!
>
> Dave
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
>
Message 28
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Ignoring the emergency tank and assuming the paintball tank as estimated
Boyle's Law say's there will be 2800 psi in the CJ main tank.
Walt
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Dave;
>
> The CJ air tanks are 12 liters (main) and 3 liters (emerg). With the main
> air valve open both tanks are charged from the external supply (or from
> the compressor)
> With the main air valve closed only the small emergency tank will be
> charged.
>
> Arithmetic gives me a headache but here are some numbers for you that
> suggest you treat that 3000 psi bottle with great respect.
>
> 1. Don't know the actual size of your paintball tank but lets call it 6"
> dia X 24" long. That represents an internal volume of 0.3927 cu. ft.
> Into that is packed 72 cu ft of air or 183 tank volumes.
>
> 2. One paintball tank volume (0.3927 cu ft) = 11.12 liters
>
> 3. Without getting too involved in the arithmetic that means when you
> transfer that 3000 psi to the CJ main you would theoretically have
> slightly less than 3000 psi in that tank. If your paintball tank volume is
> less than my estimate then you will have more than 3000 psi. Theoretically
> of course since the CJ tank (and/or most of the aircraft) would have
> exploded long before then.
>
> Please be very cautious. You are dealing with a bomb
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Laird" <dave@davelaird.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>>
>>> David,
>>> Remember that your 3000PSI will 'expand' to 750 psi in the main tank.
>>> Treat
>>> the paintball tank like a capacitor it has a load of charge so your
>>> small
>>> tank should give you a full charge of the 6 ltr bottle in the plane.
>>>
>>> Gus
>>>
>>
>> cool! thanks Gus.... I think I'm going to empty the main air this week
>> and then go ahead and fill it from the paintball tank to try it out!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakkers;
You should pressure test your air bottles on occasion...................
For pressure testing tanks contact:
TYM's INC.
414 West Arbor Vitae St.
Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone 213-678-3330 or 310-673-3330
They have all the fittings needed to do our tanks. They have done
many YAK and MIG tanks for other customers. They're located near LAX.
Frank
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Ignoring the emergency tank and assuming the paintball tank as estimated
> Boyle's Law say's there will be 2800 psi in the CJ main tank.
>
> Walt
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>>
>> Dave;
>>
>> The CJ air tanks are 12 liters (main) and 3 liters (emerg). With the main
>> air valve open both tanks are charged from the external supply (or from
>> the compressor)
>> With the main air valve closed only the small emergency tank will be
>> charged.
>>
>> Arithmetic gives me a headache but here are some numbers for you that
>> suggest you treat that 3000 psi bottle with great respect.
>>
>> 1. Don't know the actual size of your paintball tank but lets call it 6"
>> dia X 24" long. That represents an internal volume of 0.3927 cu. ft.
>> Into that is packed 72 cu ft of air or 183 tank volumes.
>>
>> 2. One paintball tank volume (0.3927 cu ft) = 11.12 liters
>>
>> 3. Without getting too involved in the arithmetic that means when you
>> transfer that 3000 psi to the CJ main you would theoretically have
>> slightly less than 3000 psi in that tank.
If your paintball tank volume is
>> less than my estimate then you will have more than 3000 psi.
WRONG. Got that backwards.
The smaller the external tank the lower the pressure. But to stay under the
operating pressure limit of 50 Atm (730psi) the external tank cannot exceed
3 liters in volume at a pressure of 3000 psi for transfer to a 12 liter
tank.
Theoretically
>> of course since the CJ tank (and/or most of the aircraft) would have
>> exploded long before then.
>>
>> Please be very cautious. You are dealing with a bomb
>>
>
>
>
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