Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:02 AM - nose gear (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
2. 01:52 AM - Re: Pressure Relief Valve (Hans Oortman)
3. 03:32 AM - Re: Winterization kit for CJ6 (Ron Brown)
4. 04:47 AM - Re: Pressure Relief Valve (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 06:26 AM - Silicone Tape (John E. Lansden)
6. 08:06 AM - Re: survival of the vested (Ron Brown)
7. 08:06 AM - Re: Air bottles (Ron Brown)
8. 08:31 AM - Re: Silicone Tape (cgalley)
9. 08:39 AM - Re: Pressure Relief Valve (doug sapp)
10. 10:22 AM - Re: Silicone Tape (Walter Lannon)
11. 10:27 AM - Yak 50 Landing Gear Leg (Tom Johnson)
12. 10:27 AM - Re: Pressure Relief Valve (Walter Lannon)
13. 12:27 PM - Re: nose gear (Roger Kemp)
14. 01:09 PM - GILL SYSTEM INNER RING. (Kelley Monroe)
15. 03:32 PM - Forced Landing (Frank Haertlein)
16. 04:15 PM - Silicone Tape (Frank Haertlein)
17. 04:16 PM - Re: nose gear (Ernest Martinez)
18. 04:38 PM - Re: Forced Landing (KingCJ6@aol.com)
19. 05:03 PM - Re: Yak 50 Landing Gear Leg (doug sapp)
20. 06:43 PM - Re: nose gear (Brian Lloyd)
21. 07:31 PM - Re: nose gear (Roger Kemp)
22. 08:09 PM - check list (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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Brian said.
++++++++++++
Is the nose gear strong enough
to flip the aircraft without failing in the process? I suspect not. But
I don't know. Maybe you are right.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The nose gear on the Yak 52 is strong enough to flip the a/c on soft ground.
We have seen this. I dont think the crome section was bent even on one occasion.
But I have seen the crome section bent, maybe if fully extended with to higher
pressure?
Its also strong enough to push the nose wheel 6" into soft ground and not suffer
any damage and nearly flip as happened on a soft runway with myself once.
so, its gear up on any field other than mid summer (dry/ hard) and no crops/
scrub in my opinion. Or if your over water 18ft / sec vertical is better than
65 kts horizontal.
Best regards, Mark
www.yakuk.com
+44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
Message 2
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| Subject: | Pressure Relief Valve |
Whao..
Hans
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Kemp
Verzonden: zondag 8 januari 2006 0:50
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
My pop-off is set for 6 0 ATM.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
I see it always just above the 50 bars, that is in the front cockpit as well
as the back one.
Sounds like your pressure valve needs some adjustment, i.e. to be replaced
Dutch Yak Pilot
Hans
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens PHCarter@aol.com
Verzonden: zaterdag 7 januari 2006 4:27
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
Recently I started watching my air pressure in flight in order to
characterize normal values for a typical flight. During cruise the pressure
gets up to 60 atms. This appears too high to me. What is a cruise pressure
other folks see?
Preston Carter
N6209F, Yak-52
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Winterization kit for CJ6 |
What's "winter"? It's 25 C here in Burma.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Sapp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:47 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Winterization kit for CJ6
CJ6 drivers, Attached are the photos of the new winterization kit for the CJ6.
It is modeled after the stock Chinese unit. The Chinese stock unit is different
in that it requires the oil cooler duct fairing to be removed each spring
to remove the slide assembly and does not include a FOD screen. This new mod
requires that you remove the oil cooler duct fairing only once and that is
for installation. The FOD screen stays in place year round. The slide assembly
allows greater control over oil cooler temps in cold weather, (the door in
the photo is shown in the full open position.) The FOD screen keeps the junk
out of the duct. At the last air show I had 2 paper cups and a pop can deposited
in my oil cooler duct by some walkabout that was too lazy to find a trash
can. Price for the kit is $75.00. The simple installation instructions are
below. FOD screen only is $12.00
CJ6 winterization kit installation:
1.. First remove the oil cooler duct fairing
2.. Install the two slide assembly tabs (with the screws provided). The
tabs are to be installed on the flange which is on the back side of the oil cooler
duct fairing. Don't remove the slide assy from the tabs yet.
3.. Slip the preformed screen over the oil cooler plenum flange in the stub
wing--lightly crimp to hold it in place.
4.. Replace the sponge seal.
5.. Slide the oil cooler duct fairing in place over the sponge seal and screen
and replace the screws.
You will not have to remove the oil cooler duct fairing to remove the slide assembly
for summer use, simply remove the two screws which hold the slide assembly
to the tabs and your ready for the summer. Stow the slide assy in the ditty
box for safe keeping.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure Relief Valve |
The manual calls for 50 ATM's. But 55 ATM's is also good. 60 might be a little
high. But not bad. Compare it to the instrument in the rear seat.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: PHCarter@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
Recently I started watching my air pressure in flight in order to characterize
normal values for a typical flight. During cruise the pressure gets up to 60
atms. This appears too high to me. What is a cruise pressure other folks see?
Preston Carter
N6209F, Yak-52
Message 5
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Am thinking of using the "silicone tape" to seal all my air system
connections. It seems to work great on my gas grill connection and other
applications where a good seal is necessary. Anyone see any problem with
using it in this application?
Jim Lankford
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: survival of the vested |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
No. You don't have to have a "pistol permit" from each state. Texas honors
28 other state's concealed weapons permit and 26 states honor a permit
issued by Texas. The Utah permit is the most valuable as 28 states honor
it.
Utah will issue the permit to a resident of any state. If you get a permit
from five states you will be able to carry concealed weapons in 44 states.
DC is impossible to get, Illinois is next to impossible, and California is
very difficult.
I vehemently disagree that "You need to check with the respective state law
enforcement
agencies of the states you wish to transverse." Cops are a very poor source
of legal advice. They tend to say no you can't do what you are asking to
do, and they are often wrong. Look it up on the state's official website,
typically the attorney general's web page.
Vermont is the only state that recognizes the God-given right of an
individual to defend himself without getting a permit. Odd, given that it
is a rather liberal state.
Bills to mandate nationwide reciprocity have been stalled in the House and
Senate for years.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: survival of the vested
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Jon,
> Unless you have a pistol permit for each state you plan to visit, leave
> the
> gun behind. You need to check with the respective state law enforcement
> agencies of the states you wish to transverse. Some have a two step rule
> for transporting firearms. That as it sounds takes two distinct time
> consuming steps to fire the weapon. IE. it has to be retreived from a
> locked console, loaded, cocked, and fired.
> As for the radio, an ICOM fits nicely in the pouch and does not weigh as
> much as a PRC 90 (the old mil.radio). The advantage of a PRC is that it
> has
> a transponder (ELT). The disadvantage is if you go down and need help,
> you
> are going to be talking on the Military emergency frequency on UHF not
> VHF.
> There probably will not be military aircraft overhead intially equiped to
> talk to you on the UHF for awhile.
> All else that you are going to carry in you vest is legal. I would leave
> the vest in the cargo bag stowed in the YAK though after landing.
> Particularly if it involves having to go through screeners to get back out
> on the ramp. Before someone pipes up and says we are not going into any
> place that requires screening before departure, it will happen. Even in
> class C FBO's, it is happening. Big Brother is watching.
> Doc
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Jon Boede <jon@email.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 12/25/2005 10:31:46 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: survival of the vested
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>> I recently came into posession (hey, *legally*, even) of a fully equipped
>> current-issue survival vest. Everything but the radio and the sidearm.
>> It was a good Christmas. :-)
>>
>> So here's the question, and I know this is just the place to ask it. ;-)
>>
>> What's the legality of carrying all that (knife, flares, 9mm, etc.) on a
>> cross-country flight? Am I going to wind up with somebody peering over
>> their mirrored sunglasses and saying, "Boy, you're in a heap of trouble."
>> ??
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
In the US, firemen's SCBA bottle fittings vary with the manufacturer. SCUBA
diving bottles use a standard fitting, but there are a lot of airports in
the US that are a long ways from the ocean and quite possibly a long ways
from a dive shop. Another problem is that most US airports don't have a
fire department on the field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>
> Guys,
>
> The only thing we carry around during a trip in our Yak52 is a hose, which
> I
> had made especially for this purpose, with on one side an adapter which
> goes
> on the plane and on the other side an adapter with release valve which
> goes
> on a scuba dive bottle. In Europe this is a standardized connector, i.e.,
> these scuba dive bottles have the same connector as all air bottles used
> by
> the fire brigades at airfields/airports and what have you.
> There is always a nice fire fighter at an airport or airfield who wants to
> give you a hand to charge your air bottle in the plane with one of his.
> Be aware though: these bottles have 200 bars (and nowadays even 300 bars),
> so open them very slowly. We are using this method since years already and
> it works perfectly.
>
> Hans
> Yak52 pilot from Holland
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Doc Kemp
> Verzonden: dinsdag 3 januari 2006 20:17
> Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
> Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Gus,
> Send me pictures of your tank. I am using a pony tank for backup.
> viperdoc@mindspring.com
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 1/3/2006 8:04:12 AM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>
>> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have changed. I
>> now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a regulator
> to
>> 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme sport in
> the
>> US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a
> refill.
>> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up
>> little
>> space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>>
>> Gus
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
>> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I used
>> to
>> be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered something:
>>
>> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping the CJ
> is
>> really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>>
>> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
> fitting
>> is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around hasn't
>> been
>> something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far, after
>> 1,200
>> hours.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> > I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
>> > SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many places
>> > you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A schraeder
>> > fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does the
>> > same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not worth
>> > the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe fitting
>> > and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting to
>> > keeo
>> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
>> > However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To make it
>> > safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you will
>> > have no brakes!
>> >
>> > Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
>> >
>> > Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone Tape |
You are talking about the white Teflon tape I presume. I won't let any of that
stuff near an airplane. It creates real problems on even low pressure systems.
Your gas grill uses very low pressure. Probably measured in inches of water. Takes
almost 28 inches of water to have a psi of just one pound. When you talk
50 atm, multiply by 14.7 or 735 psi. I'll bet the system is designed for metal
to metal seals due to the extremely pressure. No sealers wanted or necessary.
The "tape" even if it seals a connection will cause leaks as any little bit caught
in a valve might cause it to leak. Your system needs to be free of foreign
contaminates. Teflon tape is a foreign contaminate.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: John E. Lansden
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Silicone Tape
Am thinking of using the "silicone tape" to seal all my air system connections.
It seems to work great on my gas grill connection and other applications where
a good seal is necessary. Anyone see any problem with using it in this application?
Jim Lankford
Message 9
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| Subject: | Pressure Relief Valve |
Roger, your over 200PSI over the recommended operating pressure. IMHO your
looking for trouble unless your tanks are new. If your tanks are old and
have been checked it's still risky business, if your tanks have not been
checked, your tempting fate.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:50 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
My pop-off is set for 6 0 ATM.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 1/7/2006 2:51:00 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
I see it always just above the 50 bars, that is in the front cockpit as
well as the back one.
Sounds like your pressure valve needs some adjustment, i.e. to be
replaced
Dutch Yak Pilot
Hans
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens PHCarter@aol.com
Verzonden: zaterdag 7 januari 2006 4:27
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
Recently I started watching my air pressure in flight in order to
characterize normal values for a typical flight. During cruise the pressure
gets up to 60 atms. This appears too high to me. What is a cruise pressure
other folks see?
Preston Carter
N6209F, Yak-52
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone Tape |
The use of teflon plumbing tape is verbotten in aircraft hydraulic systems, pneumatic
systems are no different in this regard.
In any case the seal is made by the flare (or flareless type) metal to metal joint
not the fitting threads. The correct thread lubricant is Parker Seallube or
Threadlube.
A small piece of plumbing tape in a close tolerance hydraulic or pneumatic valve
can not only cause a leak but can also cause a valve seizure.
Walt
riginal Message -----
From: cgalley
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Silicone Tape
You are talking about the white Teflon tape I presume. I won't let any of that
stuff near an airplane. It creates real problems on even low pressure systems.
Your gas grill uses very low pressure. Probably measured in inches of water.
Takes almost 28 inches of water to have a psi of just one pound. When you talk
50 atm, multiply by 14.7 or 735 psi. I'll bet the system is designed for metal
to metal seals due to the extremely pressure. No sealers wanted or necessary.
The "tape" even if it seals a connection will cause leaks as any little bit caught
in a valve might cause it to leak. Your system needs to be free of foreign
contaminates. Teflon tape is a foreign contaminate.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: John E. Lansden
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Silicone Tape
Am thinking of using the "silicone tape" to seal all my air system connections.
It seems to work great on my gas grill connection and other applications
where a good seal is necessary. Anyone see any problem with using it in this application?
Jim Lankford
Message 11
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| Subject: | Yak 50 Landing Gear Leg |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
I am once again on the hunt to borrow a Yak 50 landing gear leg.
Or perhaps a Yak 52 Gear Leg would work.
Designing a hydraulic brake system and having a leg to work with on a bench
is preferred.
I will pay all shipping costs back and forth of course.
Please contact me OFF list.
Thanks,
Tj
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure Relief Valve |
Just have to add my support of Doug's comments. The operating limit of 50 Atm's
is clearly spelled out in the manuals and the guage is marked with a red line.
What more do you need?
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: doug sapp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
Roger, your over 200PSI over the recommended operating pressure. IMHO your looking
for trouble unless your tanks are new. If your tanks are old and have
been checked it's still risky business, if your tanks have not been checked, your
tempting fate.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:50 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
My pop-off is set for 6 0 ATM.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 1/7/2006 2:51:00 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
I see it always just above the 50 bars, that is in the front cockpit as well
as the back one.
Sounds like your pressure valve needs some adjustment, i.e. to be replaced=05
Dutch Yak Pilot
Hans
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens PHCarter@aol.com
Verzonden: zaterdag 7 januari 2006 4:27
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Pressure Relief Valve
Recently I started watching my air pressure in flight in order to characterize
normal values for a typical flight. During cruise the pressure gets up
to 60 atms. This appears too high to me. What is a cruise pressure other folks
see?
Preston Carter
N6209F, Yak-52
Message 13
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|
Brian,
For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:
The JAK 52 School and Aircraft Training Manual -translated version states on page
90;
5.1.1 If engine stops in climbing, before the first turn:
- the pilot performs gliding;
-retracts the landing gear;
-shuts up the fire cock;
-switches out the magneto, the storage battery and the ignition;
-opens the canopy.
The landing is performed straight ahead. If it's obviously that the straight landing
endangers the pilot's life (the airplane might collide with the obstacles),
then the pilot must change the landing direction.
5.1.2 If the engine stops in circuit flight after the first turn, and/or during
the acrobatic manoeuvres in the zone, the pilot must act according to the specific
aerodrome instructions and to the instructions of the paragraph 5.17.
5.1.3. If the engine stops during the inverted flight:
-the pilot performs a half-rolling and brings the airplane back in normal flight;
-he sets the gliding speed at 170-180 kph;
-brings the throttle at one third approximtively from its total stroke;
- rotates the inection pump handle 45 degress to the left and supplies fuel until
the fuel pressure is 0.1-0.2 kgf/cm2;
NOTE: It is advisable to inject fuel in the engine cylinders to ease the engine
start.
5.1.4. As soon as the engine starts again, the pilot brings the throttle in the
takeoff position for 1-2 sec., then sets the required flight condiion.
WARNING! At the transition from inverted flight with the engine stopped to normal
flight with the start of the engine the airplane loses in height about 300-350
m.
5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged. (page 102)
5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing on the
home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.
When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non uniform ground,
the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.
5.17.2. The aviaiable length for gliding in case of the engine malfunction depends
on the aerodinamic features fo the airplane and on the height limitation.
It is advisable to perform the gliding flight with the landing gear and the wing
flaps retracted, at an 160km/h airspeed: in this case, the coeffiecient for
the aerodinamic quality and the rated length of gliding are, as follows:
k= 7 and L=7 x H
L - the rated lenght for gliding;
H - the height of flight ( in meters)
7 - the aerodinamic quality.
For the reckoning to the available gliding distance and for the estimation for
chances to land on the aerodrome, the pilot must take into account the shortening
of distance, due to the performance of turn and to the performance of the
pre-landing manoeuvers. When performing a 180 degree turn with airplane banked
at 45 degress, the distance will be shorter with 1 km approximatively.
To ensure the height of 400 m, which ensures the peromance of the manoeuvre before
landing the pilot must shorten the rated gliding distance with 3 km.
So, the avialable distance for glide, accounting fot the turn towards the aerodrome
and the ensuring of the needed spare height above the aerodrome, is about:
for H = 2000 m_10 km
for H = 3000 m _ 17 km
for H = 4000 m_ 24 km
The turns are performed with the airplane banked at 45 degree, which ensures the
smaller loss of the height.
In this case the turn radius is 200m, the vertical descent is 8 m/s and loss of
height is 220 m for a 360 degree turn.
In the landing gear and the wing flaps extended configuration, the aerodinamical
quality is 5.5.
In the case of approach flight in headwind conditions, the available distance for
glide decreases: so, when the wind velocity is 5 m/s, the gliding distance
will decrease 10%.
So, all the above stated is what the Russians teach their DOSAF students learning
to fly the JAK 52. I have no idea what the Chinese teach their students for
off field landings. I suspect it is not much different.
The military and proffessional aircarriers strongly reccommned adherence to the
check list and the "DASH -1" to guarantee uniformity in the management of an
emergency. Also it will most likely save your life.
As an aviator flying complex aircraft, I use the checklist as an aid to jog my
memory when needed. It has and will help me not make mistakes that could save
my life and that of others.
Just because "all's well that ends well" is OK does not mean it was necessarily
the correct thing to do. We sometimes get so involved in saving our precious
aircraft that we do something incorrect. A freind was so concerned with saving
his aircraft after landing hot. He had an engine that was running but with increased
cylinder head temp. That being the cause of his declared EP 20 mi out
from the airfield. He was apparently so concerned with landing hot half way down
the runway knowing he was going to go into the 500 ft overrun (which another
500 feet beyond) to stop in, he tired to take off again. He forgot to retract
his flaps on his A36. He impacted the trees at 30 ft up killing himself, his
brother, sister - in - law and his girlfriend. He did not remember that the A
36 does not climb well with full flaps. Clearly stated in the checklist for balked
landings. In his case there was a POH in the aircraft, but no checklist
in easy reach. Knowing the checklist and operating sy
stems cold or as best as possible could have saved his and his passengers lives.
On of the things the AF does with our UPT students is teach them the aircraft systems
and make them regurgitate them. They do an EP of the day each and every
morning of their training. We continue that over into the flying squadrons. Each
morning's Mass brief begins with an EP of the day. Blow it, you either stand
down for that sortie if the mistake was bad enough or suffer the ribbing of
your squadron mates, generally in good nature. All is intended for you to learn
from the mistake and not make it again.
Flying safety meetings are held quarterly to point out the good and the bad things
that happened that could or did affect the squadron,s safe performance of
its mission. If it means looking at an incident or accident in detail, it happens.
If you made the mistake, it gets discussed. If you did good, it is there
for all to see, hear, and learn from. You have to have a thick skin sometimes.
Medicine is that way too. Being on both sides of the fence as professions go.
So all this said, I will continue chose to do what has been ingrained from the
last 28 years of military avaiation, follow the checklist. It saved someone else's
ass at one time and hopefully it will save mine when it comes to it. It has
already a number of times. I will continue to look at aircraft incidents and
accidents to look both the right and wrong things done in that situation. That
is what I have been trained to do as a member of the flight safety team in
the AF/ANG.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: nose gear
Brian said.
++++++++++++
Is the nose gear strong enough
to flip the aircraft without failing in the process? I suspect not. But
I don't know. Maybe you are right.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The nose gear on the Yak 52 is strong enough to flip the a/c on soft ground. We
have seen this. I dont think the crome section was bent even on one occasion.
But I have seen the crome section bent, maybe if fully extended with to higher
pressure?
Its also strong enough to push the nose wheel 6" into soft ground and not suffer
any damage and nearly flip as happened on a soft runway with myself once.
so, its gear up on any field other than mid summer (dry/ hard) and no crops/ scrub
in my opinion. Or if your over water 18ft / sec vertical is better than 65
kts horizontal.
Best regards, Mark
www.yakuk.com
+44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
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| Subject: | GILL SYSTEM INNER RING. |
I had my CJs gill system inner ring repaired. The rod holes were so large that
someone had installed bushing in them. All the holes except 1 were welded closed,
the welds were machined and than the hole were redrilled by indexing off
the 1hole that wasn't welded. If interested in this repair contact Mark German
651-270-9803.
Message 15
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KingCJ6
I'm sorry to hear about your forced off field. I'm glad it all came out OK
for you. On a positive note, that is one hell of a story! One of the best
I've read in a long time and I mean that sincerely. You ought to submit it
for publication! We can all learn something from it.
My best regards to you and yours.
Frank (Houndog) Haertlein
N9110M
YAK-52
###########
A SUNSET FLIGHT TO REMEMBER
Message 16
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Cy
I know you're right. I tried Teflon tape for my air recharging system. It
worked at low pressures but just couldn't handle it as the pressures got
higher.
You'll probly spank me for this but I found that high temp silicone sealant
used sparingly on the threads, and in such a way as to preclude squeeze out,
worked just fine. You do have to wait until it cures though.
Frank
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I only have one thing to add to this thread.
Jimmy Rossi, a neighbor of mine and well respected aerobatic pilot and
air show pilot in his F-86 was killed several years ago when he
decided to land his airplane rather than use his working and recently
inspected hot seats in the Saber, when the engine fragged.
He had just departed from Puerto Rico after refueling from an airshow
somewhere in the Carribean. He opted to land in an overgrown field,
which unbeknowst to him was a junkyard full of vehicles. He was on
fire, no power and made the field. He impacted the hidden obstacles
and was thrown from the aircraft and was killed.
He had the option to eject over water where there was at no risk to
any population at about 5000 ft (est, I dont remember the specifics).
If he had ejected there was a good chance he would have survived, if
he would have ditched in the ocean, there was a lesser chance of
survival, but still a chance.
I had heard from people that in a conversation with his Mig-15 show
partner he always said he would rather land the plane than eject,
while his partner maintained that he would bail out.
Ejection is dangerous business, so is dead stick landing a jet. Had he
lived, would he have been right or wrong? Its anybody's guess.
Flying is inherently dangerous, hopefully most of us learn from these
experiences and try to apply them to our day to day flying. Its real
easy to Saturday morning quaterback, after the fact.
Ernie
On 1/8/06, Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Brian,
> For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:
> The JAK 52 School and Aircraft Training Manual -translated version states on
> page 90;
> 5.1.1 If engine stops in climbing, before the first turn:
> - the pilot performs gliding;
> -retracts the landing gear;
> -shuts up the fire cock;
> -switches out the magneto, the storage battery and the ignition;
> -opens the canopy.
> The landing is performed straight ahead. If it's obviously that the straight
> landing endangers the pilot's life (the airplane might collide with the
> obstacles), then the pilot must change the landing direction.
> 5.1.2 If the engine stops in circuit flight after the first turn, and/or
> during the acrobatic manoeuvres in the zone, the pilot must act according to
> the specific aerodrome instructions and to the instructions of the paragraph
> 5.17.
> 5.1.3. If the engine stops during the inverted flight:
> -the pilot performs a half-rolling and brings the airplane back in normal
> flight;
> -he sets the gliding speed at 170-180 kph;
> -brings the throttle at one third approximtively from its total stroke;
> - rotates the inection pump handle 45 degress to the left and supplies fuel
> until the fuel pressure is 0.1-0.2 kgf/cm2;
> NOTE: It is advisable to inject fuel in the engine cylinders to ease the
> engine start.
> 5.1.4. As soon as the engine starts again, the pilot brings the throttle in
> the takeoff position for 1-2 sec., then sets the required flight condiion.
> WARNING! At the transition from inverted flight with the engine stopped to
> normal flight with the start of the engine the airplane loses in height
> about 300-350 m.
> 5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged. (page
> 102)
> 5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing on
> the home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.
> When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non uniform
> ground, the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.
> 5.17.2. The aviaiable length for gliding in case of the engine malfunction
> depends on the aerodinamic features fo the airplane and on the height
> limitation. It is advisable to perform the gliding flight with the landing
> gear and the wing flaps retracted, at an 160km/h airspeed: in this case, the
> coeffiecient for the aerodinamic quality and the rated length of gliding
> are, as follows:
> k= 7 and L=7 x H
> L - the rated lenght for gliding;
> H - the height of flight ( in meters)
> 7 - the aerodinamic quality.
> For the reckoning to the available gliding distance and for the estimation
> for chances to land on the aerodrome, the pilot must take into account the
> shortening of distance, due to the performance of turn and to the
> performance of the pre-landing manoeuvers. When performing a 180 degree turn
> with airplane banked at 45 degress, the distance will be shorter with 1 km
> approximatively.
> To ensure the height of 400 m, which ensures the peromance of the manoeuvre
> before landing the pilot must shorten the rated gliding distance with 3 km.
> So, the avialable distance for glide, accounting fot the turn towards the
> aerodrome and the ensuring of the needed spare height above the aerodrome,
> is about:
> for H = 2000 m_10 km
> for H = 3000 m _ 17 km
> for H = 4000 m_ 24 km
> The turns are performed with the airplane banked at 45 degree, which ensures
> the smaller loss of the height.
>
> In this case the turn radius is 200m, the vertical descent is 8 m/s and loss
> of height is 220 m for a 360 degree turn.
> In the landing gear and the wing flaps extended configuration, the
> aerodinamical quality is 5.5.
> In the case of approach flight in headwind conditions, the available
> distance for glide decreases: so, when the wind velocity is 5 m/s, the
> gliding distance will decrease 10%.
> So, all the above stated is what the Russians teach their DOSAF students
> learning to fly the JAK 52. I have no idea what the Chinese teach their
> students for off field landings. I suspect it is not much different.
> The military and proffessional aircarriers strongly reccommned adherence to
> the check list and the "DASH -1" to guarantee uniformity in the management
> of an emergency. Also it will most likely save your life.
> As an aviator flying complex aircraft, I use the checklist as an aid to jog
> my memory when needed. It has and will help me not make mistakes that could
> save my life and that of others.
> Just because "all's well that ends well" is OK does not mean it was
> necessarily the correct thing to do. We sometimes get so involved in saving
> our precious aircraft that we do something incorrect. A freind was so
> concerned with saving his aircraft after landing hot. He had an engine that
> was running but with increased cylinder head temp. That being the cause of
> his declared EP 20 mi out from the airfield. He was apparently so concerned
> with landing hot half way down the runway knowing he was going to go into
> the 500 ft overrun (which another 500 feet beyond) to stop in, he tired to
> take off again. He forgot to retract his flaps on his A36. He impacted the
> trees at 30 ft up killing himself, his brother, sister - in - law and his
> girlfriend. He did not remember that the A 36 does not climb well with full
> flaps. Clearly stated in the checklist for balked landings. In his case
> there was a POH in the aircraft, but no checklist in easy reach. Kno wing
> the checklist and operating systems cold or as best as possible could have
> saved his and his passengers lives.
> On of the things the AF does with our UPT students is teach them the
> aircraft systems and make them regurgitate them. They do an EP of the day
> each and every morning of their training. We continue that over into the
> flying squadrons. Each morning's Mass brief begins with an EP of the day.
> Blow it, you either stand down for that sortie if the mistake was bad enough
> or suffer the ribbing of your squadron mates, generally in good nature. All
> is intended for you to learn from the mistake and not make it again.
> Flying safety meetings are held quarterly to point out the good and the bad
> things that happened that could or did affect the squadron,s safe
> performance of its mission. If it means looking at an incident or accident
> in detail, it happens. If you made the mistake, it gets discussed. If you
> did good, it is there for all to see, hear, and learn from. You have to have
> a thick skin sometimes. Medicine is that way too. Being on both sides of the
> fence as professions go.
> So all this said, I will continue chose to do what has been ingrained from
> the last 28 years of military avaiation, follow the checklist. It saved
> someone else's ass at one time and hopefully it will save mine when it comes
> to it. It has already a number of times. I will continue to look at aircraft
> incidents and accidents to look both the right and wrong things done in that
> situation. That is what I have been trained to do as a member of the flight
> safety team in the AF/ANG.
> Doc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd
> To: YAK USA-list
> Sent: 1/8/2006 2:59:27 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: nose gear
>
>
> Brian said.
> ++++++++++++
> Is the nose gear strong enough
> to flip the aircraft without failing in the process? I suspect not. But
> I don't know. Maybe you are right.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> The nose gear on the Yak 52 is strong enough to flip the a/c on soft ground.
> We have seen this. I dont think the crome section was bent even on one
> occasion. But I have seen the crome section bent, maybe if fully extended
> with to higher pressure?
>
> Its also strong enough to push the nose wheel 6" into soft ground and not
> suffer any damage and nearly flip as happened on a soft runway with myself
> once.
>
> so, its gear up on any field other than mid summer (dry/ hard) and no crops/
> scrub in my opinion. Or if your over water 18ft / sec vertical is better
> than 65 kts horizontal.
>
>
> Best regards, Mark
> www.yakuk.com
> +44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing |
Fortunately it wasn't my story, it was just passed on to me by fellow pilot.
Dave
In a message dated 1/8/2006 4:22:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
yak52driver@earthlink.net writes:
KingCJ6
I'm sorry to hear about your forced off field. I'm glad it all came out OK
for you. On a positive note, that is one hell of a story! One of the best I've
read in a long time and I mean that sincerely. You ought to submit it for
publication! We can all learn something from it.
My best regards to you and yours.
Frank (Houndog) Haertlein
N9110M
YAK-52
###########
A SUNSET FLIGHT TO REMEMBER
Message 19
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| Subject: | Yak 50 Landing Gear Leg |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Tom,
Paul Dumoret has a CJ6 that was converted to Cleveland toe brakes, he wants
to go back to the std system. Give him a call, no sense in reinventing the
wheel, most all of his stuff would bolt right up to your 50 I think.
Paul Dumoret 250-535-0395
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 50 Landing Gear Leg
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tomjohnson@cox.net>
I am once again on the hunt to borrow a Yak 50 landing gear leg.
Or perhaps a Yak 52 Gear Leg would work.
Designing a hydraulic brake system and having a leg to work with on a bench
is preferred.
I will pay all shipping costs back and forth of course.
Please contact me OFF list.
Thanks,
Tj
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> Brian,
> For the engine failure EP here is what the Russians have to say:
(whole lot of non-applicable verbiage deleted)
> 5.17 Landing Paticularities of the airplane with the engine damaged.
> (page 102)
> 5.17.1. In case of the engine failure the pilot must perform the landing
> on the home-aerodrome or on a chosen ground.
> When the pilot must perform a forced landing on an unknown or non
> uniform ground, the landing is performed with the landing gear retracted.
That is fine. The gentleman in question was flying a CJ6A. The commonly
used checklist for the CJ6A states: landing gear -- as appropriate. It
doesn't say: landing gear -- retract. From what was written I might have
left the gear down too. Seems from the result that it was the right
choice. That was my whole point.
> So, all the above stated is what the Russians teach their DOSAF students
> learning to fly the JAK 52. I have no idea what the Chinese teach their
> students for off field landings. I suspect it is not much different.
Well, I sent you the check list.
I agree in general with what you said about checklists. And every time
there is an accident, the check lists seem to get changed. Seems to me
that some thought on the part of the pilot might also be useful. An
inflexible checklist will never replace a thinking pilot.
FWIW I had a good time flying with Mike Bell in his beautiful Yak-52
today. It certainly beat blathering about whether the guy with the
forced landing did the right thing or not. I love the Yak-52's
responsiveness. The Yak-52 and CJ6A really are great airplanes.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> [Original Message]> FWIW I had a good time flying with Mike Bell in his
beautiful Yak-52
> today. It certainly beat blathering about whether the guy with the
> forced landing did the right thing or not. I love the Yak-52's
> responsiveness. The Yak-52 and CJ6A really are great airplanes.
> Brian Lloyd
Brian,
I had a great sortie with my son today also. We flew 1.6 hr. He is home
from UPT for Xmas leave.
I agree, both aircraft are a blast to fly.The CJ's pit is roomer than the
52 and it's roll rate is slower than the 52 (or so it seemed to me). You
climb in a CJ and strap on a 52. Can only imagine what it would be like to
fly the 50. With it being 900 lbs less than the 52 and around 4000 fpm
climb. Intially out performs the P-51...hummm... so much for off field
landings...with that kind of performance.
Doc
Message 22
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I have a somewhat jaundice eye about check lists. There have been some very
good experience pilots killed by them. One crew at PAA died because the
Boeing/FAA/PAA approve 'cockpit smoke removal' check list was back-ass-wards.
They followed it to the T. The cockpit voice recorder and switch positions
proved it. Witness saw smoke coming from the cockpit sliding windows (part of
the check list) just at 200' off the runway when she pitched down, rolled
and went in. This BOS accident was the start of the whole Hasmat control
system in the airline industry.
There was period when flight crews were very knowledgeable about their
systems. Even as a copilot I was expected to draw simple schematics with
major components of every system on the 707. We were required to memorize the
numbers not just making sure the needles were "in the green arch". But we
learned a few "tricks" that were not in the books. My personal favorite, was
the
early radars. All these babies gave you a green blob where the nasty rain
was. There was a gain knob on it that you could fiddle with to maybe pick
out the really nasty stuff from the return. But one trick we used it for had
nothing to do with weather. By using the tilt feature and the gain knob, you
could actually get the Doppler shift on the return (You needed a fine eye to
pick it out on the CRT) and find the aircraft's drift. This perfect "drift
meter" however was only good over land.
But I digress. You can take 5 pilots that fly the same airplane - put
them in 5 separate rooms and ask them to make up a check list for that
airplane. When they are done, you will have 5 different check list. Yes a lot
of
the same items will be on them but no 2 of them will be the same nor in the
same order. When I went from PAA to UAL in 1986 PAA was operating 45+
747-100s. UAL had 13. Having to get "Unitedzised", I had to get my Flight Engineers
ticket. I became VERY familiar with UAL check list for the 747-100. They
were terrible! Flat out dangerous! If you had 2 of the 4 hydraulic systems
in op, you were likely trying to cross reference NINE (9) pages of checklists
on your table. At PAA there was one page and it incorporated the normal
checklist items also. I ended up (after my flight check) "stealing" a set of
abnormal lists from PAA to carry in my flight bag. Was just too easy to screw
up using UAL's checklist.
A system I use is a flow pattern. Some call it "cockpit wipe out". You
start at one point in the cockpit and used a flow pattern to check each and
every knob, gage and switch. We used this technics at UAL on every airplane
and would read a checklist to make sure the items were done and each of us
were on the "same page". For me, on the CJ, I start at the rear left cockpit
at the main air valve and start forward. I end on the right rear side at the
primer. I do this before start, after mag check before takeoff. I do it in
cruise and TOD. After I've put the gear down and finally after shutting down
the engine. The emergency check list is mostly in my head BUT I have a
miniaturized copy in the cockpit.
A lot of emergency checklist are "to do" lists. You must do things in a
certain order at a given time. The more complicated the airplane the more need
of a list. However - when I checked out on the 777, I found that for
takeoff you only needed to check the overhead panel.
No lights, you're good to go.
See a light?
Press the light.
Light went out? Yes. Your good to go.
If it didn't, you pressed it again.
If it still stays on - that's not good.
Go back to the gate.
God, I loved the 777. I loved the 747-400 more. It paid more. :)
Your best bet in an emergency is your through knowledge of your airplane's
systems. Knowing the emergency procedures by heart becomes easier if you know
the systems. The check list can be a guide IF you have time to use it. But
don't take anyone's word that your only salvation is a check list. The UAL
Sioux City DC-10 crash is a perfect example. There was no checklist to cover
their problem. They made do with what they knew. The out come wasn't
perfect but considering what could have happened, - - twerp not bad. Remember
fly
the airplane - fly the airplane - fly the airplane.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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