Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Mark Jefferies YAK Uk)
2. 12:56 AM - FW: Oil filter for CJ (ADC Oil Filters) (Mark Schrick)
3. 01:39 AM - Have a laugh on us (Kevin Pilling)
4. 03:18 AM - Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Yakmech)
5. 05:46 AM - Re: Have a laugh on us (Roger Kemp)
6. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Fraser, Gus)
7. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Brian Lloyd)
8. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Hans Oortman)
9. 06:49 AM - Re: Wheels up (Mike Beresford)
10. 06:56 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Fraser, Gus)
11. 07:15 AM - Re: Wheels up (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Brian Lloyd)
13. 07:54 AM - AYS Pictures (David McGirt)
14. 08:06 AM - Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Sarah Tobin)
15. 08:36 AM - Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Mike Bell)
16. 08:47 AM - Re: AYS Pictures (Michael Bolton)
17. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Fraser, Gus)
18. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Fraser, Gus)
19. 08:59 AM - Cool maps web site (Fraser, Gus)
20. 09:46 AM - Re: AYS Pictures (David McGirt)
21. 10:08 AM - 52 overhaul schedules (Richard Goode)
22. 11:26 AM - Re: Cool maps web site (cjpilot710@aol.com)
23. 11:35 AM - Re: Air bottles (doug sapp)
24. 11:48 AM - Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Roger Kemp)
25. 12:22 PM - Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Sarah Tobin)
26. 12:32 PM - Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Yakmech)
27. 12:52 PM - [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Richard Basiliere)
28. 01:03 PM - [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Richard Basiliere)
29. 01:05 PM - S&F (cjpilot710@aol.com)
30. 01:16 PM - Re: S&F (cjpilot710@aol.com)
31. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Brian Lloyd)
32. 01:27 PM - Re: [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Roger Kemp)
33. 01:28 PM - Re: 52 overhaul schedules (Brian Lloyd)
34. 01:28 PM - Re: S&F (Ernest Martinez)
35. 01:35 PM - Re: [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Sarah Tobin)
36. 02:19 PM - Re: [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Roger Kemp)
37. 02:37 PM - Re: Wheels up (Frank Haertlein)
38. 03:11 PM - Re: Air bottles (Frank Haertlein)
39. 03:12 PM - Re: Air bottles (Frank Haertlein)
40. 03:36 PM - Re: 52 overhaul schedules (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
41. 04:18 PM - Re: 52 overhaul schedules (Richard Basiliere)
42. 04:29 PM - Re: 52 overhaul schedules (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
43. 04:49 PM - Re: 52 overhaul schedules (Richard Basiliere)
44. 06:08 PM - Re: S&F (Craig Payne)
45. 06:10 PM - Re: AYS Pictures (David McGirt)
46. 06:10 PM - Oil Cooler in the wing - 52 TW (David McGirt)
47. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: S&F (Ernest Martinez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
Mike, I assume the YAK 52 is operated on the experimental or limited
register is AU hence you don't take any notice of the OEM that had a massive
design team and knowledge base from experience of the materials and
equipment. If was from this knowledge base that operating procedures were
drawn up. These obviously have factors of safety included.
Its been mentioned on the list in the past the amount of rust found in these
items (u/c lifters) along with resultant seals leaking. This surely would
have given you a heads up to investigate the rams/ lifters after 15 years!!
Rather than wait for a failure as seams to be the norm.
I'm pretty sure CASA does not have anyone in the "company" that worked at
YDB to pass along the knowledge so its down to the maintenance companies and
owners to act in a responsible manner and maintain a/c IAW manuals and
common sense (ie checking the leg locks!!)
We (world wide) are permitted to operate these experimental a/c (remember
the wording "This a/c is not certificated to an international standard")
and its our responsibility to operate as safely as possible or suffer the
consequences of tightened CASA, FAA, CAA etc regulations not to mention
litigation.
So, basically I implore you to read all the manuals and recognise the OEM
requirements as I have said they know far more than you and I on the matter.
Why put your own safety and that of potentially many others at RISK because
YOU/ Owner wanted to save a few bucks? (by skipping maintenance) Lastly
litigation would follow when someone was hurt through the negligence of lack
of maintenance that's for sure.
As a foot note I thought the limited register that allowed public transport
flights in AU in non certified a/c says that life items must be adhered to.
One of my customers there certainly adheres to the OEM requirements for that
reason.
Time:
10:57:38 PM PST US
Subject:
Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
From:
"Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Mark.... Here in Australia we maintain aircraft such as the Yak52 as
per the Regulatory
guidelines, ie What our Civil Aviation Authority tells us we shall
maintain
an aircraft too. These guidelines depend on several things, which I
could
obviously spend pages writing about if i needed too. But the
requirements
for the Yak here DO NOT require that the seals be changed every 5
years.. so...
the rams have NOT been dissassembled since they came from the factory.
Further,
the maintenance requirements DO NOT once again require the test that
you
suggest, which as I have already stated WOULD find the problem. Now
maybe the
maintenance requirements for these sort of aircraft should be looked
at and
further amended, BUT for you to ASSUME the maintenance company is at
fault, is
relying on the information that you have for the maintenance of the
Aircraft
in YOUR country. And yes I do work for the maintenance company.....
BUT......
I do not make the rules.... I only abide by them !!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Oil filter for CJ (ADC Oil Filters) |
Here is the correct website:
www.aviationdevelopment.com <http://www.aviationdevelopment.com/>
Aviation Development Corporation
1305 NW 200th Street
Seattle, WA 98177 USA
contact@aviationdevelopment.com
(800) 944-3011: Toll-Free
(206) 546-3011: Phone
(206) 546-8035: Fax
Ask for Gordon and tell them it was from SHREK....He will help you.
********************************************************************
Mark Schrick
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, Ca 95120-1848
Hm/Fax 408-323-5150
Cell 408-391-6664
Email <mailto:schrick@pacbell.net> schrick@pacbell.net
-----Original Message-----
From: David McGirt [mailto:david@mcgirt.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil filter for CJ (ADC Oil Filters)
That web link does not work? Do you have the correct one? Or where can I get
replacement filters, I have a 52 TW with the ADC system..
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:14 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil filter for CJ (ADC Oil Filters)
If you wish to purchase an oil filter that is MADE for the Chinese and Russian
engine call ADC Oil filters.
www.AviationDevelopmentCorp.com <http://www.aviationdevelopmentcorp.com/> or
(206) 546-3011
Ask for Gordon and ask about the Red Star discount he provides and he always
donates to the ALL REDSTAR fly-in every year.
I would rather support someone that is supporting our group. Airwolf told me
on the phone last year they are not interested in supporting such a small
group when I contacted them. It was a waste of a phone call.
ADC donates over $750 per year to our ALL REDSTAR group. Ask Barry Hancock and
others. 90% of all Redstar engines run ADC Oil filter.
If you purchase from them then make sure they are better (which they are not)
ADC has a spin-on and a Micro screen to choose from and Airwolf only has one
(spin-on).
George Coy and many other YAK/CJ6 suppliers use ADC. Why would you use someone
else? PERIOD.
Hope this helps the group.
********************************************************************
Mark Schrick
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, Ca 95120-1848
Hm/Fax 408-323-5150
Cell 408-391-6664
Email <mailto:schrick@pacbell.net> schrick@pacbell.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil filter for CJ
The website for the filter kits are www.airwolf.com. No I do not have one.
Have talked to them about the M-14 filter and they were willing to modify
their Gorrilla model for multibank radials.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 3
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| Subject: | Have a laugh on us |
To make it Yak/CJ or aviation relevent seems pointless
What It Means To Be British
One of the British national daily newspapers is asking readers "what it
means to be British?" Some of the emails are hilarious but this is one
from a guy in Switzerland ...
Being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a
Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a
Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American
shows on a Japanese TV.
And the most British thing of all? Suspicion of anything "foreign".
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Since this incident I have been very concious of the fact that there is alot to
know and learn, I for one will never say that i know everything because I learn
something every day.
I still say that in this case the maintenance was sufficent for the information
available. Although the aircraft is approaching 15 years old, the flight and
maintenance history of this aircraft is very well known. Remember it only has
32 hours total time. Its because of this fact and knowing what the aeroplane
has done,, or rather has not done that makes me believe that all that could
have been done, was done to the best of our knowledge.
I have seen rusted yak systems etc before, so I know what it does and potentially
what it can cause. There was no need or concern for this aircraft with regards
to this sort of problem, even though it is approaching 15 years and hence
no nead to pull the rams out and disassemble them. I am not interested in saving
money for the customer if safety is a factor.
Im not interested in being that "cheap bloke" down the road for aircraft maintenance,
im more interested in seeing the aeroplane perform as it should between
services without the customer having to come back for unsheduled maintenance.
Unfortunately most of the time maintenance practices only change when there is
an accident or incident or better and further information is available. In this
case I / We now have both. In my case my personal practices both in the hangar
and in the air will change from this incident, all be it a hard way to learn.
But once again the reason for my post...the more that know the less likely
that its going to happen again.
You can never know to much or have to much information when the safety of others
is in your hands. The more I can pass on as a result of this incident and
the more I can learn personaly can only be of benefit surely.
So rather than can me or any other person / organisation trying to pass on information
for others to learn from, maybe, as you have started doing in your later
posts, pass on the information and not can a bloke for trying to do the right
thing wether he be the pilot or mechanic.
I will take on board the relevant and useful information that you have provided
and I appreciate that.... BUT I will not stand by and be critisised personaly
by anyone who does not know the full facts about the incident, the aeroplane
or the maintenance practices if they realy have no idea what is going on in the
first place. Remember..... dont ASSUME anything or you will make an ASS out
of U and ME.
I am willing and ready to learn and know as much as possible about the aeroplanes
that I fly and work on. Anyone that is willing to pass on that information
in a reasonable and constructive manner I am willing to listen too.
Mick
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your eyes
turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you long to
return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6075#6075
Message 5
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| Subject: | Have a laugh on us |
Good one Ol' Boy.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Pilling
Sent: 1/23/2006 3:54:39 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Have a laugh on us
To make it Yak/CJ or aviation relevent seems pointless
What It Means To Be British
One of the British national daily newspapers is asking readers "what it
means to be British?" Some of the emails are hilarious but this is one
from a guy in Switzerland ...
Being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a
Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a
Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American
shows on a Japanese TV.
And the most British thing of all? Suspicion of anything "foreign".
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Mark raises what is almost the single most serious point with ongoing
maintenance of these aircraft, regardless of country of origin. That is the
issue of lifed items.
Now how many of you out there are riding around fat dumb and stupid with
seals over 5 years old, fuel lines that have exceeded useful life. These
aircraft have a considerable list of items that need to be changed on spec,
how many of you are doing that ?
Mark can you post a list of lifed items for Yak aircraft as I think it will
shock some subscribers. As Mark mentions it will not take long for insurance
companies to see this as an out if you don't get this stuff replaced. But as
always it is up to you if you know about it and choose to avoid it don't
complain when the insurance company says bye bye.
Personally I think this is probably the biggest safety risk to the US fleet
right now and I am sure that we will see a few more issue sin this space in
the future. As far as fuel lines go, for example, it cost very little to
have them replaced, a lot more than the cost and pain associated with an in
flight fire.
I would urge you to also look at the information that Mark put together
about Yak 52 bulletins at http://www.yakuk.com/MPD.asp
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yakmech
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Since this incident I have been very concious of the fact that there is alot
to know and learn, I for one will never say that i know everything because I
learn something every day.
I still say that in this case the maintenance was sufficent for the
information available. Although the aircraft is approaching 15 years old,
the flight and maintenance history of this aircraft is very well known.
Remember it only has 32 hours total time. Its because of this fact and
knowing what the aeroplane has done,, or rather has not done that makes me
believe that all that could have been done, was done to the best of our
knowledge.
I have seen rusted yak systems etc before, so I know what it does and
potentially what it can cause. There was no need or concern for this
aircraft with regards to this sort of problem, even though it is approaching
15 years and hence no nead to pull the rams out and disassemble them. I am
not interested in saving money for the customer if safety is a factor.
Im not interested in being that "cheap bloke" down the road for aircraft
maintenance, im more interested in seeing the aeroplane perform as it should
between services without the customer having to come back for unsheduled
maintenance.
Unfortunately most of the time maintenance practices only change when there
is an accident or incident or better and further information is available.
In this case I / We now have both. In my case my personal practices both in
the hangar and in the air will change from this incident, all be it a hard
way to learn. But once again the reason for my post...the more that know
the less likely that its going to happen again.
You can never know to much or have to much information when the safety of
others is in your hands. The more I can pass on as a result of this
incident and the more I can learn personaly can only be of benefit surely.
So rather than can me or any other person / organisation trying to pass on
information for others to learn from, maybe, as you have started doing in
your later posts, pass on the information and not can a bloke for trying to
do the right thing wether he be the pilot or mechanic.
I will take on board the relevant and useful information that you have
provided and I appreciate that.... BUT I will not stand by and be critisised
personaly by anyone who does not know the full facts about the incident, the
aeroplane or the maintenance practices if they realy have no idea what is
going on in the first place. Remember..... dont ASSUME anything or you will
make an ASS out of U and ME.
I am willing and ready to learn and know as much as possible about the
aeroplanes that I fly and work on. Anyone that is willing to pass on that
information in a reasonable and constructive manner I am willing to listen
too.
Mick
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your
eyes turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you
long to return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6075#6075
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Mark Jefferies YAK Uk wrote:
> We (world wide) are permitted to operate these experimental a/c
> (remember the wording This a/c is not certificated to an international
> standard) and its our responsibility to operate as safely as possible
> or suffer the consequences of tightened CASA, FAA, CAA etc regulations
> not to mention litigation.
So what productive can come from all of this? We can stand around and
rant, implore, castigate, and otherwise make nuisances of ourselves to
our neighbors.
Instead, how about:
1. What are the recommended IRAN intervals for Yak and CJ?
2. Who is offering service to IRAN the actuators in a timely fashion in
different parts of the world?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Gus,
Mark is right of course, lifed items should be replaced.
On the other hand though: in the previous Sovjet Union maintenance programs
for aircraft were in first instance not set up for the sake of the aircraft,
i.e. technically required, but for the sake of employment, i.e. keeping
everybody at work......
On our Yak (RA3326K previous a.k.a LY-AQC) we do replace lifed items
according to the book though....
Hans O.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Fraser, Gus
Verzonden: maandag 23 januari 2006 15:01
Aan: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Mark raises what is almost the single most serious point with ongoing
maintenance of these aircraft, regardless of country of origin. That is the
issue of lifed items.
Now how many of you out there are riding around fat dumb and stupid with
seals over 5 years old, fuel lines that have exceeded useful life. These
aircraft have a considerable list of items that need to be changed on spec,
how many of you are doing that ?
Mark can you post a list of lifed items for Yak aircraft as I think it will
shock some subscribers. As Mark mentions it will not take long for insurance
companies to see this as an out if you don't get this stuff replaced. But as
always it is up to you if you know about it and choose to avoid it don't
complain when the insurance company says bye bye.
Personally I think this is probably the biggest safety risk to the US fleet
right now and I am sure that we will see a few more issue sin this space in
the future. As far as fuel lines go, for example, it cost very little to
have them replaced, a lot more than the cost and pain associated with an in
flight fire.
I would urge you to also look at the information that Mark put together
about Yak 52 bulletins at http://www.yakuk.com/MPD.asp
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yakmech
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Since this incident I have been very concious of the fact that there is alot
to know and learn, I for one will never say that i know everything because I
learn something every day.
I still say that in this case the maintenance was sufficent for the
information available. Although the aircraft is approaching 15 years old,
the flight and maintenance history of this aircraft is very well known.
Remember it only has 32 hours total time. Its because of this fact and
knowing what the aeroplane has done,, or rather has not done that makes me
believe that all that could have been done, was done to the best of our
knowledge.
I have seen rusted yak systems etc before, so I know what it does and
potentially what it can cause. There was no need or concern for this
aircraft with regards to this sort of problem, even though it is approaching
15 years and hence no nead to pull the rams out and disassemble them. I am
not interested in saving money for the customer if safety is a factor.
Im not interested in being that "cheap bloke" down the road for aircraft
maintenance, im more interested in seeing the aeroplane perform as it should
between services without the customer having to come back for unsheduled
maintenance.
Unfortunately most of the time maintenance practices only change when there
is an accident or incident or better and further information is available.
In this case I / We now have both. In my case my personal practices both in
the hangar and in the air will change from this incident, all be it a hard
way to learn. But once again the reason for my post...the more that know
the less likely that its going to happen again.
You can never know to much or have to much information when the safety of
others is in your hands. The more I can pass on as a result of this
incident and the more I can learn personaly can only be of benefit surely.
So rather than can me or any other person / organisation trying to pass on
information for others to learn from, maybe, as you have started doing in
your later posts, pass on the information and not can a bloke for trying to
do the right thing wether he be the pilot or mechanic.
I will take on board the relevant and useful information that you have
provided and I appreciate that.... BUT I will not stand by and be critisised
personaly by anyone who does not know the full facts about the incident, the
aeroplane or the maintenance practices if they realy have no idea what is
going on in the first place. Remember..... dont ASSUME anything or you will
make an ASS out of U and ME.
I am willing and ready to learn and know as much as possible about the
aeroplanes that I fly and work on. Anyone that is willing to pass on that
information in a reasonable and constructive manner I am willing to listen
too.
Mick
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your
eyes turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you
long to return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6075#6075
Message 9
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
Hi all
Dennis, it was above 40 bar. I'd been having some
compressor problems in the previous months, and was
monitoring the pressure during the flight.
Blue skies
Mike
--- "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Mike,
> Do you recall what the air pressure was in the main
> system when you moved
> the gear selector to the down position?
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Beresford" <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Wheels up
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
> > <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Dennis, I usually don't close the latch when the
> gear
> > is "up". I do slide it over as soon as the gear
> > selector is moved to "down" - and in this case the
> > latch was in place.
> >
> > The local AMO is away for a week, so I'll probably
> > only hear the formal assessment in a few weeks.
> >
> > Blue skies
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > --- "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis
> Savarese"
> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >>
> >> I'm sorry to hear about your mishap Mike, but I
> do
> >> have one question. Do
> >> you have a habit of moving the gear selector
> slide
> >> lock to the right when
> >> the gear selector is in the UP position? I have
> >> seen this before and when
> >> preoccupied we listen for the air escaping while
> >> cycling the gear to the
> >> DOWN position, thus we assume the gear is down
> >> because we hear the air
> >> escaping. Due to preoccupation, we don't bother
> to
> >> check for lights and
> >> poles . But because the slide lock is to the
> right,
> >> the gear handle only
> >> goes to the neutral position. We proceed to land
> >> and then it happens.
> >>
> >> Once again, I'm sorry to hear about your
> incident,
> >> but am glad you're safe
> >> and sound.
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mike Beresford"
> <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:53 PM
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Wheels up
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
> >> > <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
> >> >
> >> > HI all
> >> >
> >> > Yesterday I managed to join the ranks of pilots
> >> who
> >> > have landed with gear up - not something I
> wanted,
> >> but
> >> > there you have it.
> >> >
> >> > To briefly describe the circumstances, I joined
> on
> >> > late downwind at my home airport. The weather
> was
> >> a
> >> > bit hazy, with high level clouds. There was one
> >> > aircraft on base, and another coming in to join
> on
> >> > base. I didn't have either aircraft visual, and
> >> was
> >> > particularly worried about the one coming in to
> >> join
> >> > base. To top it all we had an airspace
> violation
> >> of
> >> > the CTR of the nearby international, with the
> >> culprit
> >> > being close to us and on descent. I was thus
> very
> >> > preoccupied with looking out for traffic. On
> >> downwind
> >> > I selected gear down, heard the pneumatics
> >> operating,
> >> > but I cannot remember confirming with either
> >> lights or
> >> > stalks that the gear extended. The rest of the
> >> circuit
> >> > was normal until touchdown. On touchdown it
> felt
> >> like
> >> > we touched, held and then fell down onto the
> >> runway -
> >> > ie it felt like a gear collapse. However, a
> >> witness
> >> > about a kilometre away said the gear was still
> up.
> >> > Either way, we slid down the runway for a while
> >> and
> >> > then veered off to the side. I used the brakes
> >> (they
> >> > DO work) to stop, fortunately well clear of the
> >> active
> >> > and taxiways.
> >> >
> >> > Summary of aircraft visible damage is the
> broken
> >> prop
> >> > blades. Tips are obviously gone. Fortunately I
> >> touched
> >> > down at idle, so hopefully no major damage to
> the
> >> > engine. The initial touchdown was on tar, and
> the
> >> > surrounding area was grass with soft earth.
> Even
> >> the
> >> > tail skid at the rear seems undamaged. Both of
> us
> >> > walked away without a scratch.
> >> >
> >> > I'm still not sure exactly what happened. The
> gear
> >> was
> >> > definitely selected "down", the air was "on",
> and
> >> > there was suffificent pressure in the system.
> The
> >> rear
> >> > cockpit control was at neutral. We'll have to
> >> await
> >> > the report of the AMO next week.
> >> >
> >> > At the end of it I am feeling very cross,
> because
> >> this
> >> > was avoidable. I'm usually very precise about
> >> cockpit
> >> > drills. I should have picked up the failure to
> >> extend
> >> > or lock, and used the emergency system.
> >> >
> >> > One thing which did impress us was the damage
> >> > tolerance of the aircraft. The emergency crews
> >> said
> >> > they'd never seen such an easy aircraft
> recovery
> >> after
> >> > a wheels up, and the damage seems minimal. Not
> >> even
> >> > the underside of the rudder is scratched. Seems
> >> like a
> >> > solid bit of engineering, let down by the soft
> >> > machine!
> >> >
> >> > Blue skies
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- Mark Jefferies YAK Uk <mark.j@yakuk.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I must apologise to Mick, thank you for
> sharing
> >> the
> >> >> information with the
> >> >> list, please continue to do so.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I stand by my point it was pilot error. The
> pilot
> >> >> removed the pressure that
>
=== message truncated ===
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
I agree,
If it is in 6 years as opposed to 5, given a good hanger environment etc
etc, is it going to fail ? Probably not but there are aircraft operating in
the US that have been out of overhaul for getting on for 10 years, how many
of those have had all the required preventative maintenance ?
As far as this stuff goes spread the love, do one oleo this year, another
next year and so on. Otherwise the sticker shock of doing it all at once
will really hurt.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Gus,
Mark is right of course, lifed items should be replaced.
On the other hand though: in the previous Sovjet Union maintenance programs
for aircraft were in first instance not set up for the sake of the aircraft,
i.e. technically required, but for the sake of employment, i.e. keeping
everybody at work......
On our Yak (RA3326K previous a.k.a LY-AQC) we do replace lifed items
according to the book though....
Hans O.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Fraser, Gus
Verzonden: maandag 23 januari 2006 15:01
Aan: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Mark raises what is almost the single most serious point with ongoing
maintenance of these aircraft, regardless of country of origin. That is the
issue of lifed items.
Now how many of you out there are riding around fat dumb and stupid with
seals over 5 years old, fuel lines that have exceeded useful life. These
aircraft have a considerable list of items that need to be changed on spec,
how many of you are doing that ?
Mark can you post a list of lifed items for Yak aircraft as I think it will
shock some subscribers. As Mark mentions it will not take long for insurance
companies to see this as an out if you don't get this stuff replaced. But as
always it is up to you if you know about it and choose to avoid it don't
complain when the insurance company says bye bye.
Personally I think this is probably the biggest safety risk to the US fleet
right now and I am sure that we will see a few more issue sin this space in
the future. As far as fuel lines go, for example, it cost very little to
have them replaced, a lot more than the cost and pain associated with an in
flight fire.
I would urge you to also look at the information that Mark put together
about Yak 52 bulletins at http://www.yakuk.com/MPD.asp
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yakmech
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Since this incident I have been very concious of the fact that there is alot
to know and learn, I for one will never say that i know everything because I
learn something every day.
I still say that in this case the maintenance was sufficent for the
information available. Although the aircraft is approaching 15 years old,
the flight and maintenance history of this aircraft is very well known.
Remember it only has 32 hours total time. Its because of this fact and
knowing what the aeroplane has done,, or rather has not done that makes me
believe that all that could have been done, was done to the best of our
knowledge.
I have seen rusted yak systems etc before, so I know what it does and
potentially what it can cause. There was no need or concern for this
aircraft with regards to this sort of problem, even though it is approaching
15 years and hence no nead to pull the rams out and disassemble them. I am
not interested in saving money for the customer if safety is a factor.
Im not interested in being that "cheap bloke" down the road for aircraft
maintenance, im more interested in seeing the aeroplane perform as it should
between services without the customer having to come back for unsheduled
maintenance.
Unfortunately most of the time maintenance practices only change when there
is an accident or incident or better and further information is available.
In this case I / We now have both. In my case my personal practices both in
the hangar and in the air will change from this incident, all be it a hard
way to learn. But once again the reason for my post...the more that know
the less likely that its going to happen again.
You can never know to much or have to much information when the safety of
others is in your hands. The more I can pass on as a result of this
incident and the more I can learn personaly can only be of benefit surely.
So rather than can me or any other person / organisation trying to pass on
information for others to learn from, maybe, as you have started doing in
your later posts, pass on the information and not can a bloke for trying to
do the right thing wether he be the pilot or mechanic.
I will take on board the relevant and useful information that you have
provided and I appreciate that.... BUT I will not stand by and be critisised
personaly by anyone who does not know the full facts about the incident, the
aeroplane or the maintenance practices if they realy have no idea what is
going on in the first place. Remember..... dont ASSUME anything or you will
make an ASS out of U and ME.
I am willing and ready to learn and know as much as possible about the
aeroplanes that I fly and work on. Anyone that is willing to pass on that
information in a reasonable and constructive manner I am willing to listen
too.
Mick
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your
eyes turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you
long to return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6075#6075
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
OK. Thanks.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Beresford" <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Wheels up
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
> <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>
> Hi all
>
> Dennis, it was above 40 bar. I'd been having some
> compressor problems in the previous months, and was
> monitoring the pressure during the flight.
>
> Blue skies
> Mike
>
>
> --- "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> Mike,
>> Do you recall what the air pressure was in the main
>> system when you moved
>> the gear selector to the down position?
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Beresford" <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Wheels up
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
>> > <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>> >
>> > Hi all
>> >
>> > Dennis, I usually don't close the latch when the
>> gear
>> > is "up". I do slide it over as soon as the gear
>> > selector is moved to "down" - and in this case the
>> > latch was in place.
>> >
>> > The local AMO is away for a week, so I'll probably
>> > only hear the formal assessment in a few weeks.
>> >
>> > Blue skies
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > --- "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis
>> Savarese"
>> >> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> >>
>> >> I'm sorry to hear about your mishap Mike, but I
>> do
>> >> have one question. Do
>> >> you have a habit of moving the gear selector
>> slide
>> >> lock to the right when
>> >> the gear selector is in the UP position? I have
>> >> seen this before and when
>> >> preoccupied we listen for the air escaping while
>> >> cycling the gear to the
>> >> DOWN position, thus we assume the gear is down
>> >> because we hear the air
>> >> escaping. Due to preoccupation, we don't bother
>> to
>> >> check for lights and
>> >> poles . But because the slide lock is to the
>> right,
>> >> the gear handle only
>> >> goes to the neutral position. We proceed to land
>> >> and then it happens.
>> >>
>> >> Once again, I'm sorry to hear about your
>> incident,
>> >> but am glad you're safe
>> >> and sound.
>> >> Dennis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Mike Beresford"
>> <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:53 PM
>> >> Subject: Yak-List: Wheels up
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
>> >> > <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
>> >> >
>> >> > HI all
>> >> >
>> >> > Yesterday I managed to join the ranks of pilots
>> >> who
>> >> > have landed with gear up - not something I
>> wanted,
>> >> but
>> >> > there you have it.
>> >> >
>> >> > To briefly describe the circumstances, I joined
>> on
>> >> > late downwind at my home airport. The weather
>> was
>> >> a
>> >> > bit hazy, with high level clouds. There was one
>> >> > aircraft on base, and another coming in to join
>> on
>> >> > base. I didn't have either aircraft visual, and
>> >> was
>> >> > particularly worried about the one coming in to
>> >> join
>> >> > base. To top it all we had an airspace
>> violation
>> >> of
>> >> > the CTR of the nearby international, with the
>> >> culprit
>> >> > being close to us and on descent. I was thus
>> very
>> >> > preoccupied with looking out for traffic. On
>> >> downwind
>> >> > I selected gear down, heard the pneumatics
>> >> operating,
>> >> > but I cannot remember confirming with either
>> >> lights or
>> >> > stalks that the gear extended. The rest of the
>> >> circuit
>> >> > was normal until touchdown. On touchdown it
>> felt
>> >> like
>> >> > we touched, held and then fell down onto the
>> >> runway -
>> >> > ie it felt like a gear collapse. However, a
>> >> witness
>> >> > about a kilometre away said the gear was still
>> up.
>> >> > Either way, we slid down the runway for a while
>> >> and
>> >> > then veered off to the side. I used the brakes
>> >> (they
>> >> > DO work) to stop, fortunately well clear of the
>> >> active
>> >> > and taxiways.
>> >> >
>> >> > Summary of aircraft visible damage is the
>> broken
>> >> prop
>> >> > blades. Tips are obviously gone. Fortunately I
>> >> touched
>> >> > down at idle, so hopefully no major damage to
>> the
>> >> > engine. The initial touchdown was on tar, and
>> the
>> >> > surrounding area was grass with soft earth.
>> Even
>> >> the
>> >> > tail skid at the rear seems undamaged. Both of
>> us
>> >> > walked away without a scratch.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm still not sure exactly what happened. The
>> gear
>> >> was
>> >> > definitely selected "down", the air was "on",
>> and
>> >> > there was suffificent pressure in the system.
>> The
>> >> rear
>> >> > cockpit control was at neutral. We'll have to
>> >> await
>> >> > the report of the AMO next week.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the end of it I am feeling very cross,
>> because
>> >> this
>> >> > was avoidable. I'm usually very precise about
>> >> cockpit
>> >> > drills. I should have picked up the failure to
>> >> extend
>> >> > or lock, and used the emergency system.
>> >> >
>> >> > One thing which did impress us was the damage
>> >> > tolerance of the aircraft. The emergency crews
>> >> said
>> >> > they'd never seen such an easy aircraft
>> recovery
>> >> after
>> >> > a wheels up, and the damage seems minimal. Not
>> >> even
>> >> > the underside of the rudder is scratched. Seems
>> >> like a
>> >> > solid bit of engineering, let down by the soft
>> >> > machine!
>> >> >
>> >> > Blue skies
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --- Mark Jefferies YAK Uk <mark.j@yakuk.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I must apologise to Mick, thank you for
>> sharing
>> >> the
>> >> >> information with the
>> >> >> list, please continue to do so.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I stand by my point it was pilot error. The
>> pilot
>> >> >> removed the pressure that
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
I am amazed at just how reliable the pneumatic systems are as they
operate in a very hostile environment. High pressure air with moisture
in it is a very corrosive medium for steel. I would expect problems with
check valves, shuttle valves, and actuators on a pretty regular basis.
Air tool oil will help but not solve the problem.
Frankly, I would be uncomfortable with a 15-year-old aircraft with only
30 hours on it. I doubt that the pneumatic system was purged with dry
nitrogen in that time. You don't have gear and flap cycles to ensure
that the air-tool oil is redistributed on the walls of the actuators.
OTOH, it may be in the middle of the desert with little or no moisture
in the air.
So I come back to my previous question: what should the IRAN interval be
on pneumatic components?
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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|
Hello all, here are a few highlights, I am not home yet, so I can not upload
all the pictures yet ( on dialup here.. )
Here are a few, will add more soon..
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/Waycross_2006/
David McGirt
Message 14
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through it twice.
During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the light
bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a perfectionist. I
did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all! :)
They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in a
viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing the
Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw at
least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass out....what a
hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing callsign!
Smash
>From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>Walt,
>The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine occassionally
>ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a civilian
>getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
>physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800, there
>is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I know
>you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
>I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
>They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been pegged
>for life!
>Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
>squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He woke
>up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out. Seems
>the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come back
>and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
>already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
>squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes there
>when they are scared shitless!
>The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the "fuge"
>when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for 9 mo
>at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the trip
>to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for the
>intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
>T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
>USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
>Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from me
>to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
>doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
>TMFI I know!
>Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> >
> > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Where to get Training:
> >
> > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to offer
> > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
>$35.00
> > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
>(AAM-400),
> > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma City,
>Okla.
> >
> > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the following
> > facilities:
> >
> > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> >
> > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a current DA
> > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD before
> > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> >
> >
> > Smash
> >
> >
> > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
> > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a chamber
> > >ride.
> > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if you
> > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > -Robert Starnes
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Bell" <yakflyr@comcast.net>
Jill at M-14P ("Carl Hays & Co.") does a great job on Yak-52 actuator overhaul.
The turnaround is fast and it's done for just slightly more than the cost of
the parts. The uplock actuators are pretty easy to do yourself if they only need
seals, but the gear actuators are trickier. My 1993 Yak had been maintained
by some name-brand Yak shops and never had the actuators or hoses touched. There
was plenty of rust in some of them. Jill fixed the whole lot including the
check valves. The worst part is the job to get them in and out, but it's only
every 5 years, and look at the uplock actuators annually. It's cheap insurance.
--------
Mike Bell
Yak 52
Elk Grove, CA
yakflyr@comcastdotnet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6148#6148
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AYS Pictures |
Great Pics David. I hate that I missed it. We are just about finished installing
new engine and prop on my CJ. I hope to make your next event to meet you
all and learn. May we'll run into some of you in Lakeland.
Looking forward to seeing more of the Pictures.
Michael Bolton
"If it doesn't sound round, WHY LOOK?"
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Hello all, here are a few highlights, I am not home yet, so I can not upload
all the pictures yet ( on dialup here.. )
Here are a few, will add more soon..
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/Waycross_2006/
David McGirt
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Here is Marks list of lifed items
http://www.yakuk.com/lifeitems.asp
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
I agree,
If it is in 6 years as opposed to 5, given a good hanger environment etc
etc, is it going to fail ? Probably not but there are aircraft operating in
the US that have been out of overhaul for getting on for 10 years, how many
of those have had all the required preventative maintenance ?
As far as this stuff goes spread the love, do one oleo this year, another
next year and so on. Otherwise the sticker shock of doing it all at once
will really hurt.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Gus,
Mark is right of course, lifed items should be replaced.
On the other hand though: in the previous Sovjet Union maintenance programs
for aircraft were in first instance not set up for the sake of the aircraft,
i.e. technically required, but for the sake of employment, i.e. keeping
everybody at work......
On our Yak (RA3326K previous a.k.a LY-AQC) we do replace lifed items
according to the book though....
Hans O.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Fraser, Gus
Verzonden: maandag 23 januari 2006 15:01
Aan: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Mark raises what is almost the single most serious point with ongoing
maintenance of these aircraft, regardless of country of origin. That is the
issue of lifed items.
Now how many of you out there are riding around fat dumb and stupid with
seals over 5 years old, fuel lines that have exceeded useful life. These
aircraft have a considerable list of items that need to be changed on spec,
how many of you are doing that ?
Mark can you post a list of lifed items for Yak aircraft as I think it will
shock some subscribers. As Mark mentions it will not take long for insurance
companies to see this as an out if you don't get this stuff replaced. But as
always it is up to you if you know about it and choose to avoid it don't
complain when the insurance company says bye bye.
Personally I think this is probably the biggest safety risk to the US fleet
right now and I am sure that we will see a few more issue sin this space in
the future. As far as fuel lines go, for example, it cost very little to
have them replaced, a lot more than the cost and pain associated with an in
flight fire.
I would urge you to also look at the information that Mark put together
about Yak 52 bulletins at http://www.yakuk.com/MPD.asp
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yakmech
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Since this incident I have been very concious of the fact that there is alot
to know and learn, I for one will never say that i know everything because I
learn something every day.
I still say that in this case the maintenance was sufficent for the
information available. Although the aircraft is approaching 15 years old,
the flight and maintenance history of this aircraft is very well known.
Remember it only has 32 hours total time. Its because of this fact and
knowing what the aeroplane has done,, or rather has not done that makes me
believe that all that could have been done, was done to the best of our
knowledge.
I have seen rusted yak systems etc before, so I know what it does and
potentially what it can cause. There was no need or concern for this
aircraft with regards to this sort of problem, even though it is approaching
15 years and hence no nead to pull the rams out and disassemble them. I am
not interested in saving money for the customer if safety is a factor.
Im not interested in being that "cheap bloke" down the road for aircraft
maintenance, im more interested in seeing the aeroplane perform as it should
between services without the customer having to come back for unsheduled
maintenance.
Unfortunately most of the time maintenance practices only change when there
is an accident or incident or better and further information is available.
In this case I / We now have both. In my case my personal practices both in
the hangar and in the air will change from this incident, all be it a hard
way to learn. But once again the reason for my post...the more that know
the less likely that its going to happen again.
You can never know to much or have to much information when the safety of
others is in your hands. The more I can pass on as a result of this
incident and the more I can learn personaly can only be of benefit surely.
So rather than can me or any other person / organisation trying to pass on
information for others to learn from, maybe, as you have started doing in
your later posts, pass on the information and not can a bloke for trying to
do the right thing wether he be the pilot or mechanic.
I will take on board the relevant and useful information that you have
provided and I appreciate that.... BUT I will not stand by and be critisised
personaly by anyone who does not know the full facts about the incident, the
aeroplane or the maintenance practices if they realy have no idea what is
going on in the first place. Remember..... dont ASSUME anything or you will
make an ASS out of U and ME.
I am willing and ready to learn and know as much as possible about the
aeroplanes that I fly and work on. Anyone that is willing to pass on that
information in a reasonable and constructive manner I am willing to listen
too.
Mick
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your
eyes turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you
long to return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6075#6075
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
I would second that. I think that it was Jill who posted the best method for
inspecting the seals. With the aircraft jacked disconnect the lower
connection of the actuator and unscrew it with the top still connected to
the aircraft. That way you don't have to get up into the wing quite as much
which is a very sucky thing to have to do.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bell
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Bell" <yakflyr@comcast.net>
Jill at M-14P ("Carl Hays & Co.") does a great job on Yak-52 actuator
overhaul. The turnaround is fast and it's done for just slightly more than
the cost of the parts. The uplock actuators are pretty easy to do yourself
if they only need seals, but the gear actuators are trickier. My 1993 Yak
had been maintained by some name-brand Yak shops and never had the actuators
or hoses touched. There was plenty of rust in some of them. Jill fixed the
whole lot including the check valves. The worst part is the job to get them
in and out, but it's only every 5 years, and look at the uplock actuators
annually. It's cheap insurance.
--------
Mike Bell
Yak 52
Elk Grove, CA
yakflyr@comcastdotnet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6148#6148
Message 19
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| Subject: | Cool maps web site |
http://skyvector.com/ <http://skyvector.com/>
Nuff said
Gus
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2658.34">
Cool maps web site
http://skyvector.com/
Nuff said
Gus
Message 20
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Anyone that was there that took pictures or video - can you please contact
me off list, I would like to get copy or either, then share with everyone..
David
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bolton
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Great Pics David. I hate that I missed it. We are just about finished
installing new engine and prop on my CJ. I hope to make your next event to
meet you all and learn. May we'll run into some of you in Lakeland.
Looking forward to seeing more of the Pictures.
Michael Bolton
"If it doesn't sound round, WHY LOOK?"
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.net>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Hello all, here are a few highlights, I am not home yet, so I can not upload
all the pictures yet ( on dialup here.. )
Here are a few, will add more soon..
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/Waycross_2006/
David McGirt
Message 21
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| Subject: | 52 overhaul schedules |
52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use, it is pretty
similar to Yak-52.
For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major overhaul facility
at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where appropriate, and totally
overhauled.
This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then rebuilt as
a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!=20
Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the aircraft were
being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the level of maintenance that
was expected.=20
Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous maintenance,
but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we have persuaded
Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be replaced with a detailed
inspection, but even this involves wings and tail removal; engine out; x-rays
/ magnaflax etc. every 600 hours=20
If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an excuse that
the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be accepted!=20
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cool maps web site |
I like this map a lot!!!
Pappy
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Can anyone tell me the contact name and number for the outfit in CA that can
check the air tanks? I know this info was on the list recently But I cannot
locate it and was not smart enough to write it down.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Gus,
If the check valves in your airplane look like the ones in the 52, there are
no balls inside of it like the ones used on the shuttle valves for the gear
actuators. They have three components; a spring; bronze piston that is
square with rounded corners that has a hard rubber seal on the top; a disk
that the piston rubber seal presses against to seal it off.
I had to buy one last week and unfortunately none of the usual suppliers had
any in stock except the new central parts stocking location for Aerostar in
IL, Emory I couldn't believe the price they charged for one - $225.00.
But I think I've got an excellent fix that I will be testing that will cost
significantly less than $225.
I only wish the CJ check valves would cross to the 52 because I would buy
them from Doug Sapp in a heartbeat. The problem is the fittings on the
Russian check valves are male and the Chinese ones are female. Adding a
male to male fitting would seem like the logical solution. But then you run
into a space problem. ie: The additional space required for the Chinese
check valve with a male to male conversion fitting on each end would make it
virtually impossible for the original metal lines to fit properly. In some
cases it would be impossible. In particular, the check valve closest to the
main oil tank on the + (cross) fitting where the pop-off valve is located.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> Speaking of the check valve. The check valve on my fill port has a slow
> leak, are the balls the same as the ones in the uplocks ? If so who was
> offering the hard balls a while ago, and I am talking durons not anything
> else.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Davis
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:54 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> Air flows from high pressure to low, and there are spring loaded check
> valves throughout the filling systems that keep "equalized" pressure from
> ever really being equal. Even without them, no system fills the "empty"
> tank to a higher pressure than the supply (it's a physics thing) so it
> then
> starts flowing the other way.
>
> Your're right, you can't be too safe. That's why many people buy AVIATORS
> breathing oxygen instead of that nasty old welding oxygen (cynicism alert-
> if you're gullible stop reading now) which is full of water/oil/bugs/cat
> entrails.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <fish@aviation-tech.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: fish@aviation-tech.com
>>
>> Yaksters,
>>
>> I can not beleive that a fire dept, will allow there cylinder to connect
>> to
>> your system. This is dangerous!
>>
>> Once the pressure equilizes, the air can possably backflow into there
>> tanks.
>> at this point there tanks are contaminated, and cannot be used for
>> breathing
>> air until they are checked and cleaned. That is why you leave some
>> pressure
>> in cylinders to keep them from becoming contaminated.
>>
>> I would also have some concern about filling tanks at a shop as the same
>> thing
>> can happen to their systems. Once the pressure equilizes form their tanks
>> to
>> yours, there system will become contaminated.
>>
>> I have heard to many stories about divers who had problems with thier air
>> air
>> (compressors need to be maintained also), which sometimes leads to
>> contaminated
>> air. That I would be rather error on the side of safety when it comes to
>> breating
>> air (compressed or Oxygen).
>>
>> Fly Safe
>> John fischer
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>SCUBA to commie airplane adapters can be ordered from my former partner
>>> >at
>> L39ZAparts@hotmail.com unless the Kazakistan warrants caught up with
>> >him.
>>
>>>
>>>I defer to your experience, which is probably more recent than mine. In
>>> >the
>> mining industry, NIOSH allows only certified systems. Our safety
>> >engineers
>> determined that using a part (cylinder) from MSA on a >regulator from
>> Scott
>> constituted an uncertified "system". They were >fanatics about things
>> like
>> that, not like FAA un-approved parts regs.
>>>
>>>At another job, we changed from Scott to a German-built system,
>>> >Interspiro
>> perhaps. My recollection is that those fittings were >incompatible with
>> the
>> existing filling fittings, but I wouldn't swear to >it. It was many
>> years
>
>> ago.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Richard Basiliere
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>>
>>>
>>> FYI on the firefighter SCBA fittings. They are "all" standard GCA
>>> >Universal
>> threaded fittings. Survivair, Scott, MSA, all the same. If >we have a
>> big
>> "event" multiple agencies will be "invited" and we need to >be able to
>> fill
>> our bottles from other Fire Dept compressors or cascade >systems. I'd
>> love
>> to have the SCBA adapter to Russian airplane - the >SCBA bottles are a
>> dime
>> a dozen.
>>>
>>> Respectfully, rick b
>>>
>>> >>> L39parts@hotmail.com 1/8/2006 8:05:27 AM >>>
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Brown" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> In the US, firemen's SCBA bottle fittings vary with the manufacturer.
>>> >SCUBA
>>
>>> diving bottles use a standard fitting, but there are a lot of airports
>>> >in
>>
>>> the US that are a long ways from the ocean and quite possibly a long
>>> >ways
>>
>>> from a dive shop. Another problem is that most US airports don't have
>>> >a
>>
>>> fire department on the field.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:14 PM
>>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>>
>>>
>>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
>>> >
>>> > Guys,
>>> >
>>> > The only thing we carry around during a trip in our Yak52 is a hose,
>>> >which
>>
>>> > I
>>> > had made especially for this purpose, with on one side an adapter
>>> >which
>>
>>> > goes
>>> > on the plane and on the other side an adapter with release valve
>>> >which
>>
>>> > goes
>>> > on a scuba dive bottle. In Europe this is a standardized connector,
>>> >i.e.,
>>
>>> > these scuba dive bottles have the same connector as all air bottles
>>> >used
>>
>>> > by
>>> > the fire brigades at airfields/airports and what have you.
>>> > There is always a nice fire fighter at an airport or airfield who
>>> >wants
>> to
>>> > give you a hand to charge your air bottle in the plane with one of
>>> >his.
>>
>>> > Be aware though: these bottles have 200 bars (and nowadays even 300
>>> >bars),
>>
>>> > so open them very slowly. We are using this method since years
>>> >already
>> and
>>> > it works perfectly.
>>> >
>>> > Hans
>>> > Yak52 pilot from Holland
>>> >
>>> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> > Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Doc Kemp
>>> > Verzonden: dinsdag 3 januari 2006 20:17
>>> > Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> > Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>> >
>>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>>> ><viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>>> >
>>> > Gus,
>>> > Send me pictures of your tank. I am using a pony tank for backup.
>>> > viperdoc@mindspring.com
>>> > Doc
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> [Original Message]
>>> >> From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>> >> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> >> Date: 1/3/2006 8:04:12 AM
>>> >> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>> >>
>>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>> >>
>>> >> I used to carry the adapter around with me but recently I have
>>> >changed.
>> I
>>> >> now carry a paintball gun tank. It is a 4500 pound tank with a
>>> >regulator
>>
>>> > to
>>> >> 800psi on the output. Paintball is the fastest growing extreme
>>> >sport
>> in
>>> > the
>>> >> US and shops for this are popping up all over the place if I need a
>>> > refill.
>>> >> The tank is about a foot long and about 4 inches around so takes up
>>> >
>>
>>> >> little
>>> >> space. I can send pictures if anyone is interested.
>>> >>
>>> >> Gus
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:07 PM
>>> >> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air bottles
>>> >>
>>> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>> >>
>>> >> I have a SCUBA to "red star" hose that flies with my airplane... I
>>> >used
>>
>>> >> to
>>> >> be concerned about running out of air but then I discovered
>>> >something:
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> When primed up good, when the weather is above 40F, hand-propping
>>> >the
>> CJ
>>> > is
>>> >> really quite easy. It WANTS to start.
>>> >>
>>> >> Once you get over any trepidation about hand propping it, the SCUBA
>>> > fitting
>>> >> is really the backup to the backup. Carrying extra air around
>>> >hasn't
>>
>>> >> been
>>> >> something that would have "saved the day", at lease at so far,
>>> >after
>>
>>> >> 1,200
>>> >> hours.
>>> >>
>>> >> Jon
>>> >>
>>> >> > I have a standard type SCUBA bottle in my hangar and I carry the
>>> >> > SCUBA fitting with on a cross country for emergency. Not many
>>> >places
>>
>>> >> > you cannot borrow or rent a SCUBA bottle for an emergency. A
>>> >schraeder
>>
>>> >> > fitting is not necessary as the check valve in the system does
>>> >the
>>
>>> >> > same, the small amount of loss when you unhook the botle is not
>>> >worth
>>
>>> >> > the trouble. I tapped the fuselage fitting for AN816- 4 pipe
>>> >fitting
>>
>>> >> > and use matching fitting on the SCUBA hose then cap the fitting
>>> >to
>>
>>> >> > keeo
>>> >> the dirt out with AN929-4 cap.
>>> >> > However as Craig says hand propping is not that difficult. To
>>> >make
>> it
>>> >> > safer I bleed off all the air then chock the airplane as you
>>> >will
>>
>>> >> > have no brakes!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Joe
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>nics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listh>
t
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
One question?
Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they put on
the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g checking
high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So turn
your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like a
complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
twitching in two different directions!
Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the one
with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>
> Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through it
twice.
> During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the
light
> bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a perfectionist.
I
> did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all! :)
> They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
>
> Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in a
> viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing the
> Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw at
> least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass out....what
a
> hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing callsign!
>
> Smash
>
>
> >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> >Walt,
> >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine occassionally
> >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a civilian
> >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800,
there
> >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I
know
> >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
> >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been
pegged
> >for life!
> >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He woke
> >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out.
Seems
> >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come
back
> >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
> >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
> >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes
there
> >when they are scared shitless!
> >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the
"fuge"
> >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for 9
mo
> >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the
trip
> >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for the
> >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
> >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
> >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from me
> >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> >TMFI I know!
> >Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > >
> > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Where to get Training:
> > >
> > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to
offer
> > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
> >$35.00
> > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
> >(AAM-400),
> > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma City,
> >Okla.
> > >
> > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
following
> > > facilities:
> > >
> > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > >
> > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a current
DA
> > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD
before
> > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Smash
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > >
> > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
> > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a chamber
> > > >ride.
> > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if you
> > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
Yep, sure did have to do that one over the shoulder, that by far was the
toughest of any of the straight on Gs. We looked up and right to a high 5
o'clock position at 5gs and had to move our head to center 12 during the
spinning, then down to low 10 o'clock. Yes, you feel like tumbling
backwards.
Smash
>From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:47:54 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>One question?
>Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they put on
>the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g checking
>high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So turn
>your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like a
>complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
>twitching in two different directions!
>Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the one
>with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
>Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through it
>twice.
> > During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the
>light
> > bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a perfectionist.
>I
> > did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all!
>:)
>
> > They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
> >
> > Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in a
> > viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing
>the
> > Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw at
> > least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass
>out....what
>a
> > hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing callsign!
> >
> > Smash
> >
> >
> > >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> > >
> > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > >Walt,
> > >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine
>occassionally
> > >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a
>civilian
> > >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> > >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800,
>there
> > >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I
>know
> > >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> > >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
> > >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been
>pegged
> > >for life!
> > >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> > >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He
>woke
> > >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out.
>Seems
> > >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come
>back
> > >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
> > >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
> > >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes
>there
> > >when they are scared shitless!
> > >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the
>"fuge"
> > >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for
>9
>mo
> > >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the
>trip
> > >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for
>the
> > >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
> > >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
> > >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> > >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from
>me
> > >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> > >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> > >TMFI I know!
> > >Doc
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > >
> > > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
>Tobin
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
><vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Where to get Training:
> > > >
> > > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to
>offer
> > > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
> > >$35.00
> > > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
> > >(AAM-400),
> > > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma
>City,
> > >Okla.
> > > >
> > > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
>following
> > > > facilities:
> > > >
> > > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > > >
> > > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a
>current
>DA
> > > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD
>before
> > > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Smash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >
> > > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
> > > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a
>chamber
> > > > >ride.
> > > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if
>you
> > > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakmech" <mjpoole@hunterlink.net.au>
Hi Gus,
Once again I have looked at this site and others since the incident. They are
a wealth of information I agree.
The only problem is that once again these are all bulletins etc relevant to the
aircraft in that country. Issued by that country I know the aeroplane does
not change when it goes over seas but these bulletins etc are not released here,
so unless we look elsewhere or are told about it in some form or another, how
are we supposed know. Further if the bulletins are not put out by our relevant
authority then we have no requirement to carry them out.... Crazy but true
and further as I have already stated we dont know about them. Unfortunately
its not my job to keep up to date with what the world are doing with there aircraft
i can only be guided by what the local authroity has to say. The authorities
here are supposed to look at the relevant information being supplied world
wide and issue directives here if they feel its relevant, and most of this
information would have to come from the manufacturers of the aircraft.
One can only do what one only knows about. !!!
--------
Once you have experienced flight you will forever walk this earth with your eyes
turned skyward for it is there that you have been and there that you long to
return !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6205#6205
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
non-synchro nystagmus? cool
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 1/23/2006 12:47:54 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
One question?
Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they
put on
the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g
checking
high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So
turn
your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like a
complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
twitching in two different directions!
Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the
one
with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
<vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>
> Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through
it
twice.
> During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the
light
> bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a
perfectionist.
I
> did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all!
:)
> They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
>
> Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in
a
> viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing
the
> Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw
at
> least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass
out....what
a
> hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing
callsign!
>
> Smash
>
>
> >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> >Walt,
> >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine
occassionally
> >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a
civilian
> >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @
1800,
there
> >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not!
I
know
> >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the
plane.
> >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been
pegged
> >for life!
> >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He
woke
> >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll
out.
Seems
> >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could
come
back
> >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I
was
> >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my
F-16
> >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on
goes
there
> >when they are scared shitless!
> >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru
the
"fuge"
> >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th
for 9
mo
> >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make
the
trip
> >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated
for the
> >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have
two
> >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry
by
> >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring
from me
> >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> >TMFI I know!
> >Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
<gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > >
> > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
Tobin
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
<vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Where to get Training:
> > >
> > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement
to
offer
> > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a
nominal
> >$35.00
> > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education
Division
> >(AAM-400),
> > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma
City,
> >Okla.
> > >
> > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
following
> > > facilities:
> > >
> > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > >
> > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a
current
DA
> > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating
FFD
before
> > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Smash
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > >
> > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes
<a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each
other's
> > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a
chamber
> > > >ride.
> > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if
you
> > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
"Smash" is gonna kill me for this one but this is the way I remember
it...and it was a long time ago in a land far away...a dark and
stormy... - oops wrong story.
Prior to her T-3 stuff "pre-Smash" and I did some akro in my -52 to get
her ready. One day early in her training she over pulled a loop -
probably didn't get a squeeze either - I saw her head drop - she was in
the front seat. Me, being me, took the airplane - rolled it inverted -
and she awoke in a totally different attitude (45 up inverted) than when
she took her nap. Nothing but long dark hair and red nails in the front
cockpit for a while until she figured her attitude and handled it - well
I will add.
Akro instruction is too much fun - sometimes
Rick b
>>> vorchaser@hotmail.com 1/23/2006 1:21:49 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
Yep, sure did have to do that one over the shoulder, that by far was
the
toughest of any of the straight on Gs. We looked up and right to a
high 5
o'clock position at 5gs and had to move our head to center 12 during
the
spinning, then down to low 10 o'clock. Yes, you feel like tumbling
backwards.
Smash
>From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:47:54 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>One question?
>Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they
put on
>the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g
checking
>high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So
turn
>your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like
a
>complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
>twitching in two different directions!
>Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the
one
>with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
>Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
<vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through
it
>twice.
> > During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of
the
>light
> > bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a
perfectionist.
>I
> > did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is
all!
>:)
>
> > They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
> >
> > Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up
in a
> > viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while
doing
>the
> > Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I
saw at
> > least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass
>out....what
>a
> > hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing
callsign!
> >
> > Smash
> >
> >
> > >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> > >
> > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > >Walt,
> > >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine
>occassionally
> > >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a
>civilian
> > >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> > >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @
1800,
>there
> > >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely
not! I
>know
> > >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> > >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the
plane.
> > >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has
been
>pegged
> > >for life!
> > >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my
F-15
> > >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210.
He
>woke
> > >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll
out.
>Seems
> > >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could
come
>back
> > >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I
was
> > >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my
F-16
> > >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on
goes
>there
> > >when they are scared shitless!
> > >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru
the
>"fuge"
> > >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th
for
>9
>mo
> > >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make
the
>trip
> > >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated
for
>the
> > >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have
two
> > >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun
dry by
> > >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> > >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring
from
>me
> > >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a
flt
> > >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> > >TMFI I know!
> > >Doc
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
<gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > >
> > > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
>Tobin
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
><vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Where to get Training:
> > > >
> > > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement
to
>offer
> > > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a
nominal
> > >$35.00
> > > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education
Division
> > >(AAM-400),
> > > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute,
Oklahoma
>City,
> > >Okla.
> > > >
> > > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
>following
> > > > facilities:
> > > >
> > > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > > >
> > > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a
>current
>DA
> > > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating
FFD
>before
> > > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Smash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes
<a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >
> > > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each
other's
> > > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a
>chamber
> > > > >ride.
> > > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like
if
>you
> > > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
FREE!
Message 29
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|
CC: jtobul@tobul.com
Troops,
At the RPA board meeting last night and on general consensus from a lot of
our members up at AYS clinic. It was decided to base our operations at Sun &
Fun this year out of LAL (Lakeland) it self.
So without to much time remaining you need to reserve a room though EAA WB
(Warbirds of America). We are going to try to set up some space to meet at on
the field at LAL. Not much chance of that - but.
We will still fly formation in the show but we'll be staying at the WB hotel
and keep our airplanes on the show site. Your still free to do otherwise
but RPA will not be seeking special rates at ZPH hotels or special deals with
off field FBOs. Yep we'll be rubbing elbows with the best WB groups.
Holiday Inn # is 863-294-4451, (I lost my last issue of the WB magizine so
I'm trying to book straight to them.)
Not much time left to sign up.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 30
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|
Troops,
I screwed up by telling you to call the Holiday Inn direct. Just as I
punched the send key, the phone rang and a member told me, he tried to do just
that and was turned down and was told he needed to book though the EAA WB.
So if you have the WB form use it and get your reservation in.
Pappy
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Yakmech wrote:
> The authorities here
> are supposed to look at the relevant information being supplied world
> wide and issue directives here if they feel its relevant, and most of
> this information would have to come from the manufacturers of the
> aircraft.
> One can only do what one only knows about. !!!
I don't know about you but I wouldn't trust the FAA here in the US to
provide me with accurate data about anything. With few exceptions they
don't seem to be able to tell their empenage from their armpit. (Well,
they do seem to get the charts right but I think that may be NOAA and
not the FAA.)
Seems it might make sense to set up a conduit to get the information
another way.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
Yeah, I still can see the stairway up to the control dancing! Almost got a new
call sign....Balls- bouncing eyeballs!
I was not toughing (touching) the wall (and it being circular none- the-less!),
I was hugging the damned thing!
The second trip was not so bad. Guess hypertension and athrosclerosis help in
somethings..kidding. Still did not enjoy the G measles and the hemarthralgias
though. Nothing like a little blood spun out in the joint to make ya move slow
in the morning!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Basiliere
Sent: 1/23/2006 3:02:25 PM
Subject: [CONTENT] RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
non-synchro nystagmus? cool
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 1/23/2006 12:47:54 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
One question?
Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they put on
the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g checking
high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So turn
your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like a
complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
twitching in two different directions!
Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the one
with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>
> Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through it
twice.
> During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the
light
> bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a perfectionist.
I
> did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all! :)
> They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
>
> Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in a
> viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing the
> Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw at
> least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass out....what
a
> hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing callsign!
>
> Smash
>
>
> >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> >Walt,
> >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine occassionally
> >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a civilian
> >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800,
there
> >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I
know
> >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
> >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been
pegged
> >for life!
> >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He woke
> >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out.
Seems
> >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come
back
> >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
> >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
> >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes
there
> >when they are scared shitless!
> >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the
"fuge"
> >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for 9
mo
> >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the
trip
> >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for the
> >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
> >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
> >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from me
> >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> >TMFI I know!
> >Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > >
> > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Where to get Training:
> > >
> > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to
offer
> > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
> >$35.00
> > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
> >(AAM-400),
> > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma City,
> >Okla.
> > >
> > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
following
> > > facilities:
> > >
> > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > >
> > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a current
DA
> > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD
before
> > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Smash
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > >
> > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
> > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a chamber
> > > >ride.
> > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if you
> > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=========================sp; - The Yak-List Email Forum sp;
==================================================p;
-Matt Dralle, ====================================================
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 52 overhaul schedules |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Richard Goode wrote:
> 52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
>
> I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use,
> it is pretty similar to Yak-52.
>
> For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major
> overhaul facility at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where
> appropriate, and *totally overhauled. *
That is similar to the Chinese schedule.
>
> This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then
> rebuilt as a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!
That is different. The Chinese IRAN, not overhaul. But then they throw
the airplane away at 3000 hours.
> Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the
> aircraft were being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the
> level of maintenance that was expected.
>
> Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous
> maintenance, but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we
> have persuaded Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be
> replaced with a detailed inspection, but even this involves wings and
> tail removal; engine out; x-rays / magnaflax etc. every 600 hours
That does seem a bit stiff.
> If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an
> excuse that the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be
> accepted!
I don't think it would be here either. The FAA would probably slap you
with the "careless and reckless" clause because you ignored accepted
maintenance procedures and it caused an incident or accident.
BTW, did Sean Carroll ever pay you the money he owes you? I still
haven't gotten anything out of him.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 34
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I just went to the Warbirds Website and it just says to call the Hotel
Ernie
On 1/23/06, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Troops,
> I screwed up by telling you to call the Holiday Inn direct. Just as I
> punched the send key, the phone rang and a member told me, he tried to do
> just that and was turned down and was told he needed to book though the EAA
> WB.
>
> So if you have the WB form use it and get your reservation in.
>
> Pappy
Message 35
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
I don't remember this story, but I will push the "i believe button" and go
with it...
apparently I didn't know the AGSM back then.
Always good to practice your AGSM...it's like kegels! ;)
Smash
>From: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: [CONTENT] RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:02:27 -0700
>
>"Smash" is gonna kill me for this one but this is the way I remember
>it...and it was a long time ago in a land far away...a dark and
>stormy... - oops wrong story.
>
>Prior to her T-3 stuff "pre-Smash" and I did some akro in my -52 to get
>her ready. One day early in her training she over pulled a loop -
>probably didn't get a squeeze either - I saw her head drop - she was in
>the front seat. Me, being me, took the airplane - rolled it inverted -
>and she awoke in a totally different attitude (45 up inverted) than when
>she took her nap. Nothing but long dark hair and red nails in the front
>cockpit for a while until she figured her attitude and handled it - well
>I will add.
>
>Akro instruction is too much fun - sometimes
>
>Rick b
>
> >>> vorchaser@hotmail.com 1/23/2006 1:21:49 PM >>>
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>
>Yep, sure did have to do that one over the shoulder, that by far was
>the
>toughest of any of the straight on Gs. We looked up and right to a
>high 5
>o'clock position at 5gs and had to move our head to center 12 during
>the
>spinning, then down to low 10 o'clock. Yes, you feel like tumbling
>backwards.
>
>Smash
>
>
> >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:47:54 -0600
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp"
><viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> >One question?
> >Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they
>put on
> >the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g
>checking
> >high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So
>turn
> >your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like
>a
> >complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
> >twitching in two different directions!
> >Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the
>one
> >with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
> >Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
><vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through
>it
> >twice.
> > > During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of
>the
> >light
> > > bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a
>perfectionist.
> >I
> > > did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is
>all!
> >:)
> >
> > > They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
> > >
> > > Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up
>in a
> > > viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while
>doing
> >the
> > > Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I
>saw at
> > > least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass
> >out....what
> >a
> > > hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing
>callsign!
> > >
> > > Smash
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > > >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> > > >
> > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp"
><viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >
> > > >Walt,
> > > >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine
> >occassionally
> > > >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a
> >civilian
> > > >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> > > >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @
>1800,
> >there
> > > >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely
>not! I
> >know
> > > >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> > > >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the
>plane.
> > > >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has
>been
> >pegged
> > > >for life!
> > > >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my
>F-15
> > > >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210.
>He
> >woke
> > > >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll
>out.
> >Seems
> > > >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could
>come
> >back
> > > >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I
>was
> > > >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my
>F-16
> > > >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on
>goes
> >there
> > > >when they are scared shitless!
> > > >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru
>the
> >"fuge"
> > > >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th
>for
> >9
> >mo
> > > >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make
>the
> >trip
> > > >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated
>for
> >the
> > > >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have
>two
> > > >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun
>dry by
> > > >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> > > >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring
>from
> >me
> > > >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a
>flt
> > > >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> > > >TMFI I know!
> > > >Doc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > [Original Message]
> > > > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
><gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
>
> >Tobin
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
> ><vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Where to get Training:
> > > > >
> > > > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement
>to
> >offer
> > > > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a
>nominal
> > > >$35.00
> > > > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education
>Division
> > > >(AAM-400),
> > > > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute,
>Oklahoma
> >City,
> > > >Okla.
> > > > >
> > > > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
> >following
> > > > > facilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a
> >current
> >DA
> > > > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating
>FFD
> >before
> > > > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Smash
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes
><a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each
>other's
> > > > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a
>
> >chamber
> > > > > >ride.
> > > > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like
>if
> >you
> > > > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>FREE!
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
And now we know why she wanted to do a second run on the same day. Generally a
second run is for those that nearly or did G lock. With alittle coaching most
get thru without difficulty. Just a little worse for ware where the G-suit was
not compressing the skin. That petechial rash looks great in bathing suit! With
everyone at the beach or lake going "what's wrong with him/her? What ever
it is, I don't want it!"
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Basiliere
Sent: 1/23/2006 3:11:18 PM
Subject: [CONTENT] RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
"Smash" is gonna kill me for this one but this is the way I remember it...and it
was a long time ago in a land far away...a dark and stormy... - oops wrong story.
Prior to her T-3 stuff "pre-Smash" and I did some akro in my -52 to get her ready.
One day early in her training she over pulled a loop - probably didn't get
a squeeze either - I saw her head drop - she was in the front seat. Me, being
me, took the airplane - rolled it inverted - and she awoke in a totally different
attitude (45 up inverted) than when she took her nap. Nothing but long
dark hair and red nails in the front cockpit for a while until she figured her
attitude and handled it - well I will add.
Akro instruction is too much fun - sometimes
Rick b
>>> vorchaser@hotmail.com 1/23/2006 1:21:49 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
Yep, sure did have to do that one over the shoulder, that by far was the
toughest of any of the straight on Gs. We looked up and right to a high 5
o'clock position at 5gs and had to move our head to center 12 during the
spinning, then down to low 10 o'clock. Yes, you feel like tumbling
backwards.
Smash
>From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:47:54 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>One question?
>Did you have to tough the wall to walk to the exit stairs after they put on
>the brake during spoll down. Kinda uncaged your gyros with the 9g checking
>high left 6 tracking the lose of light in your peripheral vision. So turn
>your head forward and then down with the onset of braking! Felt like a
>complete forward loop in two axis! The airman said my eyeballs were
>twitching in two different directions!
>Oh and the 106 driver, he went to sleep again in the Fuge...he is the one
>with those two huge hoses for nostrils on the training films!
>Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Sarah Tobin <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 1/23/2006 10:13:21 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Come on doc! the Fuge is a blast! I actually asked to go through it
>twice.
> > During the 7G pull, I got a little greying just on the edge of the
>light
> > bar, so I asked to do it again...what can I say...I am a perfectionist.
>I
> > did it again and got no greying, just had to push harder that is all!
>:)
>
> > They said they had never had anyway actually *ask* to do it again.
> >
> > Oh, I didn't mention the best part...you get to wait your turn up in a
> > viewing room, where you can see all of your buddies faces while doing
>the
> > Anti-G Straining Maneuver (AGSM)...love that acronym! Anyway, I saw at
> > least two or three of my buds do "the funky chicken" and pass
>out....what
>a
> > hoot that is to watch. It's tough to live down the ensuing callsign!
> >
> > Smash
> >
> >
> > >From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:39:00 -0600
> > >
> > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > >Walt,
> > >The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine
>occassionally
> > >ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a
>civilian
> > >getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> > >physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800,
>there
> > >is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I
>know
> > >you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> > >I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
> > >They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been
>pegged
> > >for life!
> > >Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> > >squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He
>woke
> > >up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out.
>Seems
> > >the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come
>back
> > >and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
> > >already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
> > >squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes
>there
> > >when they are scared shitless!
> > >The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the
>"fuge"
> > >when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for
>9
>mo
> > >at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the
>trip
> > >to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for
>the
> > >intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
> > >T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
> > >USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> > >Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from
>me
> > >to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> > >doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> > >TMFI I know!
> > >Doc
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
> > > >
> > > > Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
>Tobin
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
> > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
> > > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin"
><vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Where to get Training:
> > > >
> > > > The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to
>offer
> > > > high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
> > >$35.00
> > > > fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
> > >(AAM-400),
> > > > Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma
>City,
> > >Okla.
> > > >
> > > > at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the
>following
> > > > facilities:
> > > >
> > > > Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
> > > > Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
> > > > Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
> > > > Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
> > > > Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
> > > > Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
> > > > Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
> > > > Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
> > > > Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
> > > > Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
> > > > Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
> > > > Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
> > > > Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
> > > > Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
> > > > Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
> > > > Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
> > > >
> > > > Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a
>current
>DA
> > > > Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD
>before
> > > > participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Smash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
> > > > >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> > > > >
> > > > >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
> > > > >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a
>chamber
> > > > >ride.
> > > > > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if
>you
> > > > >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
> > > > > -Robert Starnes
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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Message 37
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Mike
It is my understanding the Russians purposely designed the aircraft to
sustain minimal damage in a gear up. Got to hand it to those Russians, eh?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Wheels up
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Beresford
--> <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk>
HI all
Yesterday I managed to join the ranks of pilots who
have landed with gear up - not something I wanted, but
there you have it.
To briefly describe the circumstances, I joined on
late downwind at my home airport. The weather was a
bit hazy, with high level clouds. There was one
aircraft on base, and another coming in to join on
base. I didn't have either aircraft visual, and was particularly worried
about the one coming in to join base. To top it all we had an airspace
violation of the CTR of the nearby international, with the culprit being
close to us and on descent. I was thus very preoccupied with looking out for
traffic. On downwind I selected gear down, heard the pneumatics operating,
but I cannot remember confirming with either lights or stalks that the gear
extended. The rest of the circuit was normal until touchdown. On touchdown
it felt like we touched, held and then fell down onto the runway - ie it
felt like a gear collapse. However, a witness about a kilometre away said
the gear was still up. Either way, we slid down the runway for a while and
then veered off to the side. I used the brakes (they DO work) to stop,
fortunately well clear of the active and taxiways.
Summary of aircraft visible damage is the broken prop
blades. Tips are obviously gone. Fortunately I touched
down at idle, so hopefully no major damage to the
engine. The initial touchdown was on tar, and the
surrounding area was grass with soft earth. Even the
tail skid at the rear seems undamaged. Both of us
walked away without a scratch.
I'm still not sure exactly what happened. The gear was definitely selected
"down", the air was "on", and there was suffificent pressure in the system.
The rear cockpit control was at neutral. We'll have to await the report of
the AMO next week.
At the end of it I am feeling very cross, because this
was avoidable. I'm usually very precise about cockpit
drills. I should have picked up the failure to extend
or lock, and used the emergency system.
One thing which did impress us was the damage
tolerance of the aircraft. The emergency crews said
they'd never seen such an easy aircraft recovery after
a wheels up, and the damage seems minimal. Not even
the underside of the rudder is scratched. Seems like a
solid bit of engineering, let down by the soft
machine!
Blue skies
Mike
--- Mark Jefferies YAK Uk <mark.j@yakuk.com> wrote:
> I must apologise to Mick, thank you for sharing the information with
> the list, please continue to do so.
>
>
>
> I stand by my point it was pilot error. The pilot
> removed the pressure that
> held the leg in the down position, simple as that.
> An error. Why do this?
> Its not in any flight manual published by DOSAAF or
> the OEM that I have
> seen.
>
>
>
> Regarding the u/c ram. This a/c being a 1991 a/c if
> properly maintained has
> had its gear ram seals changed on 2 occasions by
> now. Remember these seals
> are 5 years life item. The insurance company if it
> is looking to apportion
> blame is to refer to the maintenance company that
> signed for the changing of
> the seals on the last occasion, presumably they
> assembled the ram
> incorrectly.
>
>
>
> Further, the person/ company that did the last
> annual inspection is also
> implicated in the failure because he failed to do
> the inspection IAW
> manuals. Just to be clear here, when the a/c is on
> jacks every 50 hrs or 1
> year and the u/c system is being internally
> lubricated, emg cycles/
> retractions etc. the last check to do with air
> pressure neutral, Is to check
> that the folding link will not break, ie checking
> to see that the locking
> balls in the ram have engaged. This is done by
> pushing hard at the centre of
> the folding link. Its very clear also that the
> maintenance company did not
> do this or they would have found the problem.
>
>
>
> As we know there are very few accidents where one
> item/ occurrence is the
> cause, its usually a chain of events.
>
>
>
> Regards, mj
>
>
>
> Ps, we all make mistakes, I put my hands up to a
> number, never get
> complacent.
>
> Pps I only take the digest so always 24 hrs behind
> the drag curve.
>
>
>
>
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry
Message 38
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
For pressure testing tanks contact:
TYM's INC.
414 West Arbor Vitae St.
Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone 213-678-3330 or 310-673-3330
Message 39
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
For pressure testing tanks contact:
TYM's INC.
414 West Arbor Vitae St.
Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone 213-678-3330 or 310-673-3330
Message 40
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| Subject: | 52 overhaul schedules |
Richard,
I was aware of the 500 hour rebuild in Russia and what was accomplished
during them, from talking at length with Vladimir Yastremski and Sergei
Boriak.
What I was not aware of was your mention of xrays and magnafluxing.
Do you have details on those inspections that the Russians were doing
(regarding Non Destructive Inspections [NDI]), or are these inspections
something that you have come up with locally?
Thanks for the information.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use, it
is pretty similar to Yak-52.
For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major
overhaul facility at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where
appropriate, and totally overhauled.
This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then rebuilt
as a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!
Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the aircraft
were being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the level of
maintenance that was expected.
Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous
maintenance, but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we
have persuaded Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be
replaced with a detailed inspection, but even this involves wings and tail
removal; engine out; x-rays / magnaflax etc. every 600 hours
If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an excuse
that the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be accepted!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
-
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-
Message 41
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| Subject: | 52 overhaul schedules |
It's in the SU-29 manuals. Magnaflux and some kinda ultra sound test
for the composite wings - hasn't applied until this year for me - the
rear wing spar attachment thing. But, "it's in there"
If you want the Sukhoi -word for word - contact me off list I'll copy
it for you.
Rick b
>>> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil 1/23/2006 4:36:03 PM >>>
Richard,
I was aware of the 500 hour rebuild in Russia and what was accomplished
during them, from talking at length with Vladimir Yastremski and Sergei
Boriak.
What I was not aware of was your mention of xrays and magnafluxing.
Do you have details on those inspections that the Russians were doing
(regarding Non Destructive Inspections [NDI]), or are these inspections
something that you have come up with locally?
Thanks for the information.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use,
it is pretty similar to Yak-52.
For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major
overhaul facility at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where
appropriate, and totally overhauled.
This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then
rebuilt as a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!
Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the
aircraft were being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the
level of maintenance that was expected.
Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous
maintenance, but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we
have persuaded Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be
replaced with a detailed inspection, but even this involves wings and
tail removal; engine out; x-rays / magnaflax etc. every 600 hours
If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an
excuse that the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be
accepted!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 42
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| Subject: | 52 overhaul schedules |
I appreciate the offer Rick, but it would seem to me that the requirements
would differ between the YAK-50 and the SU-29 by quite a margin given their
massive difference in design. Still.... metal is metal..... so yes, I would
be interested in hearing what exactly they are looking for cracks in.
I don't keep up much with Sukes... but does this rear spar deal also apply
to the 26's and 31's and if so, how often? I have friends here with both
aircraft and I do not see them making any special inspections... and I'd
know. Perhaps they are overlooking something important? If you know of a
mandatory rear spar inspection using magnaflux on the SU-26's or 31's PLEASE
let me know ASAP!
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Basiliere
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
It's in the SU-29 manuals. Magnaflux and some kinda ultra sound test for
the composite wings - hasn't applied until this year for me - the rear wing
spar attachment thing. But, "it's in there"
If you want the Sukhoi -word for word - contact me off list I'll copy it for
you.
Rick b
>>> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil 1/23/2006 4:36:03 PM >>>
Richard,
I was aware of the 500 hour rebuild in Russia and what was accomplished
during them, from talking at length with Vladimir Yastremski and Sergei
Boriak.
What I was not aware of was your mention of xrays and magnafluxing.
Do you have details on those inspections that the Russians were doing
(regarding Non Destructive Inspections [NDI]), or are these inspections
something that you have come up with locally?
Thanks for the information.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use, it
is pretty similar to Yak-52.
For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major
overhaul facility at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where
appropriate, and totally overhauled.
This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then rebuilt
as a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!
Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the aircraft
were being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the level of
maintenance that was expected.
Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous
maintenance, but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we
have persuaded Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be
replaced with a detailed inspection, but even this involves wings and tail
removal; engine out; x-rays / magnaflax etc. every 600 hours
If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an excuse
that the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be accepted!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
-
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-
Message 43
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| Subject: | 52 overhaul schedules |
I understand. I was just putting in my 1 cents worth that the Russians
do think about that techno stuff.
The cracking problem was identified in Nik Timofeev's SU-29 and applies
only to the -29. He found his port side rear spar attach fitting broken
and the starboard cracked. So, I think this is a one time thing. The
Russians, from what I've gathered from their communications on it think
its an anomaly and are treating it as such. The Friendly Aviation
Agency is pushing as hard as it legitimately can to issue this as an AD.
My notification was on "FAA AD letterhead" so to speak - you know -the
same format. So...according the FAA it is mandatory for we SU-29
drivers only.
I started my Annual Conditional Inspection a few days ago and mine are
fine - both sides. I think Nik's is a unique case but it doesn't take
much at all to check while you have the sides off the airplane off for
inspection anyway.
Yak-50 huh? A great relative to have. I never flew one but Azat (my
Ukraine bud - National Champion) loves the darned things he flew/flys
them for the "Yakovlevs" UK Akro formation group when he's not flying
Capt. on B-737 for Ukraine International Airlines (yea Azat).
Respectfully, rick b
>>> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil 1/23/2006 5:28:38 PM >>>
I appreciate the offer Rick, but it would seem to me that the
requirements would differ between the YAK-50 and the SU-29 by quite a
margin given their massive difference in design. Still.... metal is
metal..... so yes, I would be interested in hearing what exactly they
are looking for cracks in.
I don't keep up much with Sukes... but does this rear spar deal also
apply to the 26's and 31's and if so, how often? I have friends here
with both aircraft and I do not see them making any special
inspections... and I'd know. Perhaps they are overlooking something
important? If you know of a mandatory rear spar inspection using
magnaflux on the SU-26's or 31's PLEASE let me know ASAP!
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Basiliere
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
It's in the SU-29 manuals. Magnaflux and some kinda ultra sound test
for the composite wings - hasn't applied until this year for me - the
rear wing spar attachment thing. But, "it's in there"
If you want the Sukhoi -word for word - contact me off list I'll copy
it for you.
Rick b
>>> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil 1/23/2006 4:36:03 PM >>>
Richard,
I was aware of the 500 hour rebuild in Russia and what was accomplished
during them, from talking at length with Vladimir Yastremski and Sergei
Boriak.
What I was not aware of was your mention of xrays and magnafluxing.
Do you have details on those inspections that the Russians were doing
(regarding Non Destructive Inspections [NDI]), or are these inspections
something that you have come up with locally?
Thanks for the information.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Yak-List: 52 overhaul schedules
52 overhaul schedules plus IRAN
I know nothing about CJ6 maintenance,but suspect that, in military use,
it is pretty similar to Yak-52.
For the Yak-52 in Soviet use, every aircraft was returned to a major
overhaul facility at 500 hours, with an extension to 600 hours where
appropriate, and totally overhauled.
This means it was stripped down to the last night and bolt and then
rebuilt as a new aircraft. This is not IRAN, but a total rebuild!
Obviously the State was paying and so no cost consideration; the
aircraft were being flown very hard, but the fact remains that is the
level of maintenance that was expected.
Obviously more gentle western use should be reflected in less onerous
maintenance, but that is what the manufacturer intended. In the UK, we
have persuaded Yakovlev and the UK CAA that the 600 hour overhaul can be
replaced with a detailed inspection, but even this involves wings and
tail removal; engine out; x-rays / magnaflax etc. every 600 hours
If there is a problem through lack of maintenance, I suspect that an
excuse that the maintenance was not locally compulsory would not be
accepted!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 44
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In addition to the official Holiday Inn, Winter Haven hotel, there is the Howard
Johnson, Cypress Garden hotel. Despite their addresses, both are side by side
on Rt. 17. If the Holiday is full, there is the Hojo next door.
I'll put some feelers out for info on local furnished home rentals and see what
comes up.
For broken birds at S&F, my end unit hanger (#78) is directly across from Show
Center on the North side. I will have an open hanger with amenities during the
Saturday Night air show. All are invited but I realize many will be bonding with
their WB Buds at the WB awards that night.
This year the hanger parties will be a bit more subdued after last year. Some guy
with a real overboost problem exploded inside the men's room and the City workers
had to use hoses and putty knives to clean up. Kinda like a typical night
out at any base EM club.
Craig Payne
Message 45
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Added a few more highlights.. :-)
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/Waycross_2006/Index.htm
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Anyone that was there that took pictures or video - can you please contact
me off list, I would like to get copy or either, then share with everyone..
David
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bolton
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Great Pics David. I hate that I missed it. We are just about finished
installing new engine and prop on my CJ. I hope to make your next event to
meet you all and learn. May we'll run into some of you in Lakeland.
Looking forward to seeing more of the Pictures.
Michael Bolton
"If it doesn't sound round, WHY LOOK?"
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.net>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Yak-List: AYS Pictures
Hello all, here are a few highlights, I am not home yet, so I can not upload
all the pictures yet ( on dialup here.. )
Here are a few, will add more soon..
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/Waycross_2006/
David McGirt
Message 46
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler in the wing - 52 TW |
Does anyone here have this mod? How do you like it? Where did you have it
done?
Thanks
David McGirt
Yak 52 TW
Message 47
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I'll be there, I went to the WB awards banquet once. Was bored to tears.
Ernie
On 1/23/06, Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
>
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