Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - SunnFun News! (Drew Blahnick)
2. 07:55 AM - Re: bureaucrats (doug sapp)
3. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: bureaucrats (Brian Lloyd)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure (Valkyre1)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: bureaucrats (Janet Davidson)
6. 08:58 AM - Re: AYS Pictures (Valkyre1)
7. 09:15 AM - Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Jon Boede)
8. 09:17 AM - S&F Hotel form (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 09:26 AM - S&F Hotel Res form (Ernest Martinez)
10. 09:48 AM - Rear spar mounting (Richard Goode)
11. 09:49 AM - Yak-52 overhaul schedule (Richard Goode)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: bureaucrats (Roger Baker)
13. 11:05 AM - Re: [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Herb Coussons)
14. 11:07 AM - Shipping from UK (Ernest Martinez)
15. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: bureaucrats (Robert Starnes)
16. 12:37 PM - Re: Shipping from UK (Fraser, Gus)
17. 12:48 PM - Re: Shipping from UK (Ernest Martinez)
18. 01:17 PM - Re: S&F Hotel form (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 01:58 PM - Re: [CONTENT] Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) (Roger Kemp)
20. 03:45 PM - Re: Shipping from UK (cgalley)
21. 04:30 PM - Re: S&F Hotel form (Ernest Martinez)
22. 06:52 PM - Re: Shipping from UK (Ernest Martinez)
Message 1
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Folks,
I just sent a letter off to an allie in the WB community who will send it up
the flag pole asap at SunnFun to secure a permit for tent real estate on Lakeland,
of course, you can imagine the request for support attempts to explain the
bottom line advantages for SunnFun corporate to have RPA on field as opposed
to off, and asks for them to consider this when determining such issues as permit
cost to the RPA.
Although this year it's Winterhaven or as best the planners can do, and their
looking - we are approaching this also as a long range multi-year plan in all
regards, and we are searching for future block hotel deals with close in billeting
locations with the assumption that on field (LAL) basing will work as
long as RPA looks far enough 'downfield' to gain billets/transpo that reduces
our aviator stress. If you are going to SunnFun this year as part of the RPA
group, you'll probably hear this a few times; this year is beta test, some logistical
issues won't fly perfectly - the idea is it's worth it to try and we will,
like we always do, improve over time...
To give you an idea of what we are up against - Holiday Inn South, 10 minutes
from Lakeland has a standing contract with FAA & EAA for all rooms from here
to when the sun runs out of Hydrogen and explodes - at $140 a night @ 5 day min
stay!! So getting in close to the "foward edge" will require some research
- billets in the "30 minute out" range are certainly there for long term planning,
and we have a new Holiday Inn opening in the next 60 days we are calling
today for that potential.
We hope the efforts of Craig and others leads to a HQ house around SunnFun, perhaps
one we can count on/reserve well in advance each year. Houses rented by
other WB groups in Oshkosh last year based on a conversation I had yesterday
were at $1800 for two weeks - if anyone knows of a typical house deal around
LAL would love to here those numbers for treasury. A house would really pull
this whole thing together, a place for mission planning, get togethers, backyard
BBQs and billets for those lucky to draw the long straws...
If you have feedback, tips, suggestions, a large meeting tent ;) or your uncle
owns 30% of Holiday Inn Stock, the planning team to contact is Shane Golden,
Jim G, Richard L, Craig P, and Wild Bill. If you have an idea for multiyear
strategy on dealing with SunnFun or Oshkosh (on any subject), please let me know
off list.
On Waycross: Shane and the town hosted another great event. We resolved a major
historical issue at Waycross I hope will positively impact those of you considering
hosting a regional RPA event; Shane was the test bed for a new Visa
debit card system linked to a seperate "events" account at treasury. Each organizer
is issued a RPA debit card with their name on it (we ask them to surrender
their passport first ;). This account is funded by sponsorship dollars, principally
by Cannon Aviation Insurance at this time. Now event organizers can
create, plan and host an event with no personal financial outlays, risk or issues
of reimbursment from RPA - all done real time with the card. Again, I hope
this eventually results in more of our aviators coming together to host regional
RPA events.
Thanks for listening, and please email me off list as I may miss your tips/suggestions.
Drew
Drew Blahnick
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 2
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Roger, and all,
I raised this point two years ago, and was poo hoo'ed with comments that ranged
from "his BS meter has pegged" to "Gee whiz, isn't it nice that ol Doug is worried
about us" (smirk, wink). So I backed off and decided to cover my own butt
and let it alone. But after reading your article maybe it needs to be said
again: Our problem is not quite the same, with the few radium dials that remain
after "Americanization", the distance from the glass face and the amount
of "emissions" measured when sitting in the cockpit (of the CJ6) both fall within
the acceptable limits. Instrument dials aside, our problem may be very much
worse.
The fact is that most all of the early CJ's, Yak 18's, and I am sure some 50's
and maybe even 52's used radium on the throttle handles. This material is very
soft and is easily eroded by sweaty hands and can easily find it's way into
the body. Ever wiped the sweat off your brow or ate a sandwich in flight? Make
you wonder?, it should. My suggestion is the same now as it was then, GET
YOUR AIRCRAFT CHECKED WITH A GEIGER COUNTER. If it's hot, remove the handles,
submerge them in water, wear long rubber gloves, remove all the "white stuff"
from the groves on the knobs, dispose of the gloves, brushes, water and white
stuff in the "proper manner", recheck the handles and re clean if necessary.
Or throw them away ("in the proper manner") and buy the late model ones that
are free of radium. If this ever does becomes an issue and your aircraft is checked
you will be good to go. But if you do not then, well who knows. One last
thing to consider, just because your aircraft is a later model doesn't mean
much, handles and knobs are interchangeable from year one and they all look
the same. Get it checked and then you will know. If enough guys want to get
it done I'll try to make arrangements to have someone or at least the equipment
on site at ARS to do the job. I have a very good friend who is a Yak 18, and
Yak 52 owner and also tech rep for a atomic facilities repair outfit and he
just might loan us the proper tools to do the job.
As before, don't kill the messenger, I didn't invent the issue, I'm simply trying
to quietly find a answer and head off a potential problem and I don't think
sticking our heads in the sand and treating it like it never happened is the
answer. In my mind I honestly believe the threat from the bureaucrats is 100
times more of a risk to us than the threat from any radium that may or may not
be in your aircraft. But if they ever do check and find just one it may give
them the impetus to continue on.
As usual, some of your mileage may vary, it always does. And I fully expect long
oratories from all the pundants out there, who will beat the issue to death
and the final outcome will be confusion and the net result will be that very
few if any will do anything about it. Frustrated???? Not me!! Clean of all
radium on my 1956 Yak 18 / CJ5 control knobs?, you bet!
This will be my only "on list" post on the topic.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Baker [mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM
To: Roger Baker
Subject: Fwd: bureaucrats
Hello all,
? ? ?The attached file is truly chilling.? It is quite long but needs to be read
carefully by all of us.? It has immediate relevancy to us as it affects our
avocation of flying for fun...and it also has frightening implications for our
lives in general.
? ? ?The fellow that is the main subject of this story is the source of the "6
o'clock" alitmeters that I bought for our original pair of Yak 52's.? Last spring,
I called him to get a pair for the Yak I have now...and he has NOTHING!
? ? ?The attachment below, when double clicked, may open as an application rather
that just a file.? I have previously clicked to open that as an application,
and it worked just fine.? If you have any problem....just go the the url at
the bottom of this page.
Roger
Begin forwarded message:
From: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
Date: January 23, 2006 6:11:56 PM PST
To: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
Subject: bureaucrats
Message 3
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CC: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
| Subject: | Re: RE: bureaucrats |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
doug sapp wrote:
> Roger, and all,
> I raised this point two years ago, and was poo hoo'ed with comments that
> ranged from "his BS meter has pegged" to "Gee whiz, isn't it nice that
> ol Doug is worried about us" (smirk, wink). So I backed off and decided
> to cover my own butt and let it alone. But after reading your article
> maybe it needs to be said again: Our problem is not quite the same,
> with the few radium dials that remain after "Americanization", the
> distance from the glass face and the amount of "emissions" measured when
> sitting in the cockpit (of the CJ6) both fall within the acceptable
> limits. Instrument dials aside, our problem may be very much worse.
I don't think we received the original article. Roger, could you please
repost or summarize.
I agree with Doug; Radium on the instrument faces is a non-issue, EPA
not withstanding. I have had instrument shops refuse to overhaul gauges
for me because they detected radioactive material on the dials. Many
older WW-II vintage gauges that found their way into post WWII spam cans
were like this. I found "radioactive" instruments in my Comanche and my
Clipper. Mostly this was just annoying because, in one case, I really
wanted to keep the instrument.
I am less in agreement with Doug on the handles as a minuscule amount
(read "no threat") of radioactive material will make a Geiger counter go
nuts. You have to not just detect the material but also measure exactly
how much radiation you are getting with a calibrated meter at a
calibrated distance. That will tell you how much of the material is
actually present, presuming you know what kind of material it is.
Could it be a health hazard? Yes. Is it a health hazard? Don't know. We
are exposed to radiation every day -- from cosmic rays to background
radiation from the soil and building materials in our houses (granite
usually surprises people). OTOH, Doug's approach is the safest way to
deal with it.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 r/h gear failure |
Mick,
As a retired Airline pilot with 34 years of flying experience behind me so far,
I can only laud your generous courage and concern in sharing this experience
with us. "There are those who have, and those who will" as the old saying goes.
In your case, it will probably never be known how many of us you may have saved
from having a similar or worse experience, simply by making us double check.
In reality, we all think "Thank you God, that could have been me." Unless we're
someone willing to test the theorem of "Pride goeth before a fall."
I've not had an accident, but I did let our airline push my crew and I well beyond
our required crew rest years ago, and was later pretty angry at myself for
letting it happen. It's amazing what you let happen when they wear you down until
you're too tired to know that you're too tired to think straight.
At the time, many airlines were doing this by juggling numbers, printing ridiculously
false projected and arrival and departure times to conform with the letter
of the law to get us to go legally, then changing them after the fact.
To make a long story short, we had lots of weather delays and were already past
our 16 hour duty day. Dispatch kept telling us to keep going. I kept refusing,
they kept assigning us new flights and calling us at the hotel throughout the
rest of the night/morning.( We didn't even get to the hotel until 03:00 and
had to find it ourselves).
I didn't know that they had also begun calling my F/O and flight engineer as well.
This wore them down enough to get them to agree to leave for an 11am flight
that same day, just to get some rest when we finally got to New York through
Chicago.
This was technically legal by FAA standards, but broke our contract and the laws
of good sense. I'll just have to leave myself open to criticism here, because
to put in all of the dreary details would take too long.
My belabored point in all of this being, I wrote an article on this entitled "Sometimes
the Good Guys Wear the Black Hats". In other words, "Please Guys, don't
let yourselves be talked into doing what I did just because you're too exhausted
and harassed to know better. Take the phone off the hook, piss people off,
and say "NO" in the interest of safety.
My Union balked at a story where a pilot admitted making a mistake and others were
concerned that I would be criticized. I was willing to take that risk for
the greater good by holding up my less than stellar decision so that others wouldn't
have to repeat it.
Oddly enough, I didn't get criticism, just about thirty letters from fellow pilots
saying that they had found themselves in similar situations and made a better
decision because my article had "given them permission" to do so. As a side
benefit, my airlines "Pilot Pushing" policies were changed, and News Services
became an interested party in stopping this practice as well. (This was just
after Americans tragic accident at Little Rock, where crew fatigue, pilot pushing,
and extended duty period was a factor.)
Again Mick, thank you for sharing and I hope that your example leads to more of
the same. That's one of the best things about the "List". We all arm-chair quarterback,
and try to pick the situation apart to evaluate it. But it's usually
nothing personal and "You Had'da be there."
Fraternally - Val (O.K. Guys, my turn to duck and run for cover.)
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
"In my mind I honestly believe the threat from the bureaucrats is 100 times
more of a risk to us than the threat from any radium that may or may not be
in your aircraft"
That is so true! At the Museum of Flight in Scotland, the
bureaucrats/health & safety stopped the very popular Open Cockpit day. This
event, as the name suggests, involved opening the cockpits of the less
accessible and more unusual aircraft for ONE day a year. Each person had
probably a maximum of 5 minutes in each cockpit, but because some of the
instruments registered on the H&S official's geiger counter, that was the
event shut down. Ignore the facts of living in a society that breathes in
exhaust fumes daily and eats food filled with crappy chemicals, etc, etc. I
think this epitomises an example of pc gone mad.
Once some pc bureaucrat gets it into their head that your plane is unsafe,
you're options are very few.
Good luck
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
>From: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>To: "Roger Baker" <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>, "Yak list"
><yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: RE: bureaucrats
>Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:53:28 -0800
>
>Roger, and all,
>I raised this point two years ago, and was poo hoo'ed with comments that
>ranged from "his BS meter has pegged" to "Gee whiz, isn't it nice that ol
>Doug is worried about us" (smirk, wink). So I backed off and decided to
>cover my own butt and let it alone. But after reading your article maybe
>it needs to be said again: Our problem is not quite the same, with the
>few radium dials that remain after "Americanization", the distance from the
>glass face and the amount of "emissions" measured when sitting in the
>cockpit (of the CJ6) both fall within the acceptable limits. Instrument
>dials aside, our problem may be very much worse.
>
>The fact is that most all of the early CJ's, Yak 18's, and I am sure some
>50's and maybe even 52's used radium on the throttle handles. This
>material is very soft and is easily eroded by sweaty hands and can easily
>find it's way into the body. Ever wiped the sweat off your brow or ate a
>sandwich in flight? Make you wonder?, it should. My suggestion is the
>same now as it was then, GET YOUR AIRCRAFT CHECKED WITH A GEIGER COUNTER.
>If it's hot, remove the handles, submerge them in water, wear long rubber
>gloves, remove all the "white stuff" from the groves on the knobs, dispose
>of the gloves, brushes, water and white stuff in the "proper manner",
>recheck the handles and re clean if necessary. Or throw them away ("in the
>proper manner") and buy the late model ones that are free of radium. If
>this ever does becomes an issue and your aircraft is checked you will be
>good to go. But if you do not then, well who knows. One last thing to
>consider, just because your aircraft is a later model doesn't mean much,
>handles and knobs are interchangeable from year one and they all look the
>same. Get it checked and then you will know. If enough guys want to get
>it done I'll try to make arrangements to have someone or at least the
>equipment on site at ARS to do the job. I have a very good friend who is a
>Yak 18, and Yak 52 owner and also tech rep for a atomic facilities repair
>outfit and he just might loan us the proper tools to do the job.
>
>As before, don't kill the messenger, I didn't invent the issue, I'm simply
>trying to quietly find a answer and head off a potential problem and I
>don't think sticking our heads in the sand and treating it like it never
>happened is the answer. In my mind I honestly believe the threat from the
>bureaucrats is 100 times more of a risk to us than the threat from any
>radium that may or may not be in your aircraft. But if they ever do check
>and find just one it may give them the impetus to continue on.
>
>As usual, some of your mileage may vary, it always does. And I fully
>expect long oratories from all the pundants out there, who will beat the
>issue to death and the final outcome will be confusion and the net result
>will be that very few if any will do anything about it. Frustrated????
>Not me!! Clean of all radium on my 1956 Yak 18 / CJ5 control knobs?, you
>bet!
>
>This will be my only "on list" post on the topic.
>
>
>Always Yakin,
>Doug Sapp
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Baker [mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM
> To: Roger Baker
> Subject: Fwd: bureaucrats
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
> ? ? ?The attached file is truly chilling.? It is quite long but needs to
>be read carefully by all of us.? It has immediate relevancy to us as it
>affects our avocation of flying for fun...and it also has frightening
>implications for our lives in general.
>
>
> ? ? ?The fellow that is the main subject of this story is the source of
>the "6 o'clock" alitmeters that I bought for our original pair of Yak
>52's.? Last spring, I called him to get a pair for the Yak I have now...and
>he has NOTHING!
>
>
> ? ? ?The attachment below, when double clicked, may open as an
>application rather that just a file.? I have previously clicked to open
>that as an application, and it worked just fine.? If you have any
>problem....just go the the url at the bottom of this page.
>
>
> Roger
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> Date: January 23, 2006 6:11:56 PM PST
> To: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> Subject: bureaucrats
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AYS Pictures |
Just adding my two cents worth, wonderful pics David, thanks.
- Val
Message 7
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| Subject: | Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
When I was stationed at Brooks in the mid-80s, there were some airmen who
were picking up $150 a month "hazardous duty pay" by riding the
centrifuge. What a way to pick up an extra few bucks!
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Walt,
> The centrifuge at Brooks USAF School of Aerospace medicine occassionally
> ask for volunteers for centrfuge rides. I have never heard of a civilian
> getting in the centrfuge unless there is a specific training or
> physiological profile that they want to look at. It being Fri @ 1800,
> there
> is no way for me to ask the question. The answer is most likely not! I
> know
> you are pulling some healthy G's with your Sukoi and all.
> I can promise you the centrifuge is not anything like G's in the plane.
> They hurt worse! After 2 trips to the "fuge", my fun meter has been pegged
> for life!
> Why two trips to the centrifuge you ask...A F 106 driver in my F-15
> squadron decided to put himself to sleep in a pitchback at FL210. He woke
> up at FL430 enough to respond to Rudy Youngman's call's to roll out. Seems
> the squadron CC felt that I needed to go to the "Fuge" so I could come
> back
> and better teach anti-G training to the B coursers. Go figure, I was
> already pulling 9 G's and doing damned fine at it in the 310th (my F-16
> squadron) at that time. Besides the aluminum aircraft carrier on goes
> there
> when they are scared shitless!
> The second time, seems the Guard in 1988 required you to go thru the
> "fuge"
> when converting to the F-16, A-10 or F-15. I had been in the 160th for 9
> mo
> at this time. We were converting from F4's to Vipers. Got to make the trip
> to Brooks once again, even though my flight records were anotated for the
> intial punishment and I had the VTR to prove it! Well, now I have two
> T-shirts and two video's to prove it..AGAIN! T-shirt reads "spun dry by
> USAFSAM department of PHYSIOLOGY!"
> Thanks but not thanks. They got all the cardiac and BP monitoring from me
> to last the rest of my Life! They had a hayday with me being a flt
> doc...medical science and knowledge an all!
> TMFI I know!
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 1/20/2006 4:13:43 PM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge)
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>>
>> Does the same thing exist for a centrifuge ?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:17 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Where to get Training:
>>
>> The FAA and the U.S. Air Force have a joint training agreement to offer
>> high-altitude, hypobaric chamber training to civilians for a nominal
> $35.00
>> fee. Applicants should contact FAA Aeromedical Education Division
> (AAM-400),
>> Airman Education Programs, Civil Aeromedical Institute, Oklahoma City,
> Okla.
>>
>> at (405) 954-4837 to schedule training sessions at any of the following
>> facilities:
>>
>> Beale AFB, Marysville, Calif.
>> Brooks AFB, San Antonio, Texas
>> Columbus AFB, Columbus, Mich.
>> Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.
>> Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N.M
>> Langley AFB, Norfolk, Va.
>> Laughlin AFB, Del Rio, Texas
>> Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
>> Mike Monroney Aeronautical Ctr., Okla.
>> Offutt AFB, Omaha, Neb.
>> Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, Colo.
>> Randolph AFB, San Antonio, Texas
>> Shaw AFB, Columbus, S.C.
>> Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, Texas
>> Tyndall AFB, Panama City, Fla.
>> Vance AFB, Enid, Okla.
>> Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio
>>
>> Note: All personnel must have a current flight physical and a current DA
>> Form 4186 (Medical Recommendation for Flying Duty) indicating FFD before
>> participating in any hypobaric chamber exercise.
>>
>>
>> Smash
>>
>>
>> >From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
>> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Yak-List: More sickness.
>> >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:05:14 -0800 (PST)
>> >
>> >--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >When the ViperDoc and Brain get done whizzing all over each other's
>> >shoes I would like some info as to who I can contact to get a chamber
>> >ride.
>> > Sure I'm not the only one wondering this... BTW sounds like if you
>> >fly a jet this should almost be mandatory.
>> > -Robert Starnes
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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Thanks to Forest Johnson below is the reservation form from WB. Please note
you need to FAX or mail it in.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
SUN =E2=80=98N FUN 2006 ROOM RESERVATIONS
The event starts on Tuesday, April 4th 2006; occupancy of reserved rooms may
start Saturday April 1st. You must be a Warbirds member; one room per
aircraft, and priority is given to pilots bringing warbird aircraft until January
26th. OUR CUT OFF DATE IS MARCH 5th. At that time any unused rooms will be
returned to the hotel. If we have not received your reservation by March 5th,
we
cannot give you a room. Please do not write for rooms after that date. You
must fill out the form completely! Do not leave blank spaces; we need this
information to reserve your room. All attempts will be made to accommodate
specific room and bed size requests; however, we cannot guarantee your requests.
NOTE: You will be charged one night deposit if you do not cancel by 3 pm on
your arrival date. Mail this form with credit card information or a check for
$77.28 per room (payable to EAA Warbirds of America) to the address below.=20If
using credit card, please ensure that all of the required credit card
information is completed.
PLEASE PRINT
Name__________________________________________________________________________
_______
Address_______________________________________________________________________
________
City/State/Zip______________________________________E-Mail____________________
__________
Home Phone_______________________________________Warbird
#___________________________
Arrival Date_______________________________________Departure
Date_______________________
Number of Nights________Number in Party________Room Type _____King
____Standard (2 Beds)
_________Smoking _________Non Smoking
Credit Card Information ______Mastercard _______Visa_______American
Express______Discover
Card Number________________________________________________Expiration
Date____________
Name as it appears on
Card______________________________________________________________
Comments______________________________________________________________________
_______
________
________
Hotel: Holiday Inn Winter Haven, FL., 1150 Third Street NW, Winter Haven,
FL. 33880 Phone: 863-294-4451
MAIL WITH A DEPOSIT OF $77.28 PER ROOM PAYABLE TO =E2=80=9CEAA WARBIRDS OF =20AMERICA=E2=80=9D
OR INCLUDE CREDIT CARD INFORMATION TO:
CHARLOTTE HARRISON
17037 E. 79TH ST N.
OWASSO, OK 74055
OR FAX TO (918) 272-5520 NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE
Message 9
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| Subject: | S&F Hotel Res form |
Here is the S&F room reservation form.
Ernie
Message 10
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| Subject: | Rear spar mounting |
This refers only to the Su-29 which is of different construction to 26 and 31.
I do not think any other aeroplane has been affected apart from the one Su-29.
I believe Sukhoi have now made a few stronger rear spar mountings, but I have
not succeeded in getting one for European customers as yet!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Yak-52 overhaul schedule |
Our problem in the UK was that we historically operated Yaks on the Russian or
Lithuanian registers. About four years ago our CAA decided that these were not
acceptable for international flight and said that those that were "ex-military"
- i.e. 50 / 52 (until the end of '92!) and 55 chould be operated on a UK "Permit
to Fly" - sort of equivalent to US "experimental".
However they then became aware of the 500/600 hour total overhaul requirement.
Initially they insisted on us doing this, which clearly is an economic impracticality,
but after long meetings with Yakolev in Moscow I got them to agree to
replace the total overhauls with a detailed inspection procedure, at 600 hours
(or 15 year intervals) in which wings are removed; tail removed; engine out
and all parts magnaflaxed /x-rayed etc.
Administratively it is still a nightmare since all results have to go back to Moscow,
and the processing very slow, but at least they do not have to have the
total overhauls.=20
For all 52 owners, and particularly the those who fly the aircraft hard I would
have thought it prudent to follow these inspection procedures, even in countries
where you do not have to!=20
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 12
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Cc: yak-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: RE: bureaucrats |
Hello Brian,
The original item that I forwarded to Doug (and others) was a
column from the "AVweb Flash", an online aviation newsletter. I
don't seem to be able to forward the actual column very successfully,
however I have included a hyperlink to that page. I will include
that hyperlink with this message.
The column in question concerns a fellow from whom I bought
some "6 o'clock" altimeters for the first two Yak 52's that I brought
into the U.S. back in 1999. I recently tried to buy a pair of them
from him for a 52 that I have now as my personal "keeper". He had
nothing, whereas in the past, he had tens of thousands of vintage
instruments of all kinds.
This column from AVweb tells the horrifying story of what
happened to him and his wonderful treasure of old instruments. It
does involve radium containing faces...but that issue becomes almost
incidental to the tale. This story is about our state and federal
bureaucracies truly run amok.
I think that the radium exposure that we have to face due to
our airplanes is probably not a serious health issue. Radium
exposure (radon) has become, however, a serious issue and the most
egregious example, of which I am aware, of unwarranted government
intrusion into ordinary citizens lives.
I am encouraging everybody with whom I enteract to read the
column carefully. I would hope that at some point that we can
engender an ordinary citizen culture of "intolerance of government"
that might throttle this type of thing....even just a bit. Probably
merely a wispy dream...but we should do what we can.
Best regards,
Roger
The link is: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191377-1.html
On Jan 24, 2006, at 8:24 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> doug sapp wrote:
>> Roger, and all,
>> I raised this point two years ago, and was poo hoo'ed with
>> comments that
>> ranged from "his BS meter has pegged" to "Gee whiz, isn't it nice
>> that
>> ol Doug is worried about us" (smirk, wink). So I backed off and
>> decided
>> to cover my own butt and let it alone. But after reading your
>> article
>> maybe it needs to be said again: Our problem is not quite the same,
>> with the few radium dials that remain after "Americanization", the
>> distance from the glass face and the amount of "emissions"
>> measured when
>> sitting in the cockpit (of the CJ6) both fall within the acceptable
>> limits. Instrument dials aside, our problem may be very much worse.
>
> I don't think we received the original article. Roger, could you
> please
> repost or summarize.
>
> I agree with Doug; Radium on the instrument faces is a non-issue, EPA
> not withstanding. I have had instrument shops refuse to overhaul
> gauges
> for me because they detected radioactive material on the dials. Many
> older WW-II vintage gauges that found their way into post WWII spam
> cans
> were like this. I found "radioactive" instruments in my Comanche
> and my
> Clipper. Mostly this was just annoying because, in one case, I really
> wanted to keep the instrument.
>
> I am less in agreement with Doug on the handles as a minuscule amount
> (read "no threat") of radioactive material will make a Geiger
> counter go
> nuts. You have to not just detect the material but also measure
> exactly
> how much radiation you are getting with a calibrated meter at a
> calibrated distance. That will tell you how much of the material is
> actually present, presuming you know what kind of material it is.
>
> Could it be a health hazard? Yes. Is it a health hazard? Don't
> know. We
> are exposed to radiation every day -- from cosmic rays to background
> radiation from the soil and building materials in our houses (granite
> usually surprises people). OTOH, Doug's approach is the safest way to
> deal with it.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
> things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
Being the professional gynecologist I must say the list may not be
familiar with kegels...but if if you can increase the circulation in
your head with the pelvic floor muscles you don't need to do
kegels !! Thats one hell of a PC muscle !!
I have had a couple of menopausal women in the back seat for mild
acro - maybe I should change my instructions from AGSM to kegels.
I'll publish some video to this google video site when I have some
time and figure it out.
I have about 75 mins of cockpit video with Sergei critiquing my spins
and vertical line. I also have him fly a short routine. I'll have
to put some of this soon.
Herb "doc"
On Jan 23, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Sarah Tobin wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
>
> I don't remember this story, but I will push the "i believe button"
> and go with it...
>
> apparently I didn't know the AGSM back then.
>
> Always good to practice your AGSM...it's like kegels! ;)
>
> Smash
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Shipping from UK |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Can any of you Brits out there tell me the most economical means for
shipping a box approx 3 ft square weighing about 75 lbs to the US.
Thanks
Ernie
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
I was dismayed at the Imperial war museum in London
that the Avro Lancaster bomber nose section has a
large and gaudy "Radiation" sign bolted to it.
Unneccesary further damage to the airplane, plus it
defeats any hope of taking a good picture of the
exhibit.
-Robert Starnes
--- Janet Davidson <gbvfx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson"
> <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
>
> "In my mind I honestly believe the threat from the
> bureaucrats is 100 times
> more of a risk to us than the threat from any radium
> that may or may not be
> in your aircraft"
>
> That is so true! At the Museum of Flight in
> Scotland, the
> bureaucrats/health & safety stopped the very popular
> Open Cockpit day. This
> event, as the name suggests, involved opening the
> cockpits of the less
> accessible and more unusual aircraft for ONE day a
> year. Each person had
> probably a maximum of 5 minutes in each cockpit, but
> because some of the
> instruments registered on the H&S official's geiger
> counter, that was the
> event shut down. Ignore the facts of living in a
> society that breathes in
> exhaust fumes daily and eats food filled with crappy
> chemicals, etc, etc. I
> think this epitomises an example of pc gone mad.
>
> Once some pc bureaucrat gets it into their head that
> your plane is unsafe,
> you're options are very few.
>
> Good luck
>
> Janet
>
> Ph: 920 232 9238
> email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >To: "Roger Baker" <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>, "Yak list"
>
> ><yak-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Yak-List: RE: bureaucrats
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:53:28 -0800
> >
> >Roger, and all,
> >I raised this point two years ago, and was poo
> hoo'ed with comments that
> >ranged from "his BS meter has pegged" to "Gee whiz,
> isn't it nice that ol
> >Doug is worried about us" (smirk, wink). So I
> backed off and decided to
> >cover my own butt and let it alone. But after
> reading your article maybe
> >it needs to be said again: Our problem is not
> quite the same, with the
> >few radium dials that remain after
> "Americanization", the distance from the
> >glass face and the amount of "emissions" measured
> when sitting in the
> >cockpit (of the CJ6) both fall within the
> acceptable limits. Instrument
> >dials aside, our problem may be very much worse.
> >
> >The fact is that most all of the early CJ's, Yak
> 18's, and I am sure some
> >50's and maybe even 52's used radium on the
> throttle handles. This
> >material is very soft and is easily eroded by
> sweaty hands and can easily
> >find it's way into the body. Ever wiped the sweat
> off your brow or ate a
> >sandwich in flight? Make you wonder?, it should.
> My suggestion is the
> >same now as it was then, GET YOUR AIRCRAFT CHECKED
> WITH A GEIGER COUNTER.
> >If it's hot, remove the handles, submerge them in
> water, wear long rubber
> >gloves, remove all the "white stuff" from the
> groves on the knobs, dispose
> >of the gloves, brushes, water and white stuff in
> the "proper manner",
> >recheck the handles and re clean if necessary. Or
> throw them away ("in the
> >proper manner") and buy the late model ones that
> are free of radium. If
> >this ever does becomes an issue and your aircraft
> is checked you will be
> >good to go. But if you do not then, well who
> knows. One last thing to
> >consider, just because your aircraft is a later
> model doesn't mean much,
> >handles and knobs are interchangeable from year one
> and they all look the
> >same. Get it checked and then you will know. If
> enough guys want to get
> >it done I'll try to make arrangements to have
> someone or at least the
> >equipment on site at ARS to do the job. I have a
> very good friend who is a
> >Yak 18, and Yak 52 owner and also tech rep for a
> atomic facilities repair
> >outfit and he just might loan us the proper tools
> to do the job.
> >
> >As before, don't kill the messenger, I didn't
> invent the issue, I'm simply
> >trying to quietly find a answer and head off a
> potential problem and I
> >don't think sticking our heads in the sand and
> treating it like it never
> >happened is the answer. In my mind I honestly
> believe the threat from the
> >bureaucrats is 100 times more of a risk to us than
> the threat from any
> >radium that may or may not be in your aircraft.
> But if they ever do check
> >and find just one it may give them the impetus to
> continue on.
> >
> >As usual, some of your mileage may vary, it always
> does. And I fully
> >expect long oratories from all the pundants out
> there, who will beat the
> >issue to death and the final outcome will be
> confusion and the net result
> >will be that very few if any will do anything about
> it. Frustrated????
> >Not me!! Clean of all radium on my 1956 Yak 18 /
> CJ5 control knobs?, you
> >bet!
> >
> >This will be my only "on list" post on the topic.
> >
> >
> >Always Yakin,
> >Doug Sapp
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Baker [mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net]
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM
> > To: Roger Baker
> > Subject: Fwd: bureaucrats
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?The attached file is truly chilling.? It is
> quite long but needs to
> >be read carefully by all of us.? It has immediate
> relevancy to us as it
> >affects our avocation of flying for fun...and it
> also has frightening
> >implications for our lives in general.
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?The fellow that is the main subject of this
> story is the source of
> >the "6 o'clock" alitmeters that I bought for our
> original pair of Yak
> >52's.? Last spring, I called him to get a pair for
> the Yak I have now...and
> >he has NOTHING!
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?The attachment below, when double clicked,
> may open as an
> >application rather that just a file.? I have
> previously clicked to open
> >that as an application, and it worked just fine.?
> If you have any
> >problem....just go the the url at the bottom of
> this page.
> >
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >
> > From: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> > Date: January 23, 2006 6:11:56 PM PST
> > To: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> > Subject: bureaucrats
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
>
=== message truncated ===
Message 16
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| Subject: | Shipping from UK |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Best bet would be the Royal Post. Get whoever is sending it to you via the
post office with insurance.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Shipping from UK
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Can any of you Brits out there tell me the most economical means for
shipping a box approx 3 ft square weighing about 75 lbs to the US.
Thanks
Ernie
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from UK |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I need to pre-pay for it.
Ernie
On 1/24/06, Fraser, Gus <gus.fraser@gs.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> Best bet would be the Royal Post. Get whoever is sending it to you via the
> post office with insurance.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:07 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Shipping from UK
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Can any of you Brits out there tell me the most economical means for
> shipping a box approx 3 ft square weighing about 75 lbs to the US.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ernie
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: S&F Hotel form |
Troops,
Evidently EAA WB has been having some troubles with their FAX machine.
Myself and others have had some trouble. Anyway use the form below and e-mail
to _Warbrd@aol.com_ (mailto:Warbrd@aol.com) . Note the spelling, it is
correct. You should be able to copy and paste and fill in the form in a new
e-mail.
Pappy
SUN =E2=80=98N FUN 2006 ROOM RESERVATIONS
The event starts on Tuesday, April 4th 2006; occupancy of reserved rooms may
start Saturday April 1st. You must be a Warbirds member; one room per
aircraft, and priority is given to pilots bringing warbird aircraft until January
26th. OUR CUT OFF DATE IS MARCH 5th. At that time any unused rooms will be
returned to the hotel. If we have not received your reservation by March 5th,
we
cannot give you a room. Please do not write for rooms after that date. You
must fill out the form completely! Do not leave blank spaces; we need this
information to reserve your room. All attempts will be made to accommodate
specific room and bed size requests; however, we cannot guarantee your requests.
NOTE: You will be charged one night deposit if you do not cancel by 3 pm on
your arrival date. Mail this form with credit card information or a check for
$77.28 per room (payable to EAA Warbirds of America) to the address below.=20If
using credit card, please ensure that all of the required credit card
information is completed.
PLEASE PRINT
Name__________________________________________________________________________
_______
Address_______________________________________________________________________
________
City/State/Zip______________________________________E-Mail____________________
__________
Home Phone_______________________________________Warbird
#___________________________
Arrival Date_______________________________________Departure
Date_______________________
Number of Nights________Number in Party________Room Type _____King
____Standard (2 Beds)
_________Smoking _________Non Smoking
Credit Card Information ______Mastercard _______Visa_______American
Express______Discover
Card Number________________________________________________Expiration
Date____________
Name as it appears on
Card______________________________________________________________
Comments______________________________________________________________________
_______
________
________
Hotel: Holiday Inn Winter Haven, FL., 1150 Third Street NW, Winter Haven,
FL. 33880 Phone: 863-294-4451
MAIL WITH A DEPOSIT OF $77.28 PER ROOM PAYABLE TO =E2=80=9CEAA WARBIRDS OF =20AMERICA=E2=80=9D
OR INCLUDE CREDIT CARD INFORMATION TO:
CHARLOTTE HARRISON
17037 E. 79TH ST N.
OWASSO, OK 74055
OR FAX TO (918) 272-5520 NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Altitude Chamber locations (Centrifuge) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Now Doc Herb...I do believe the cash cow in your practice is from blood
flowing to a head! I'm not sure that Kegels maneuvers will improve one's
anti-G Straining maneuvers but certainly the perinium maybe tighter for it.
But to enlighten, please explain how Kegel's maneuvers can decrease the
incidence of G lock from uterine/bladder protrussion under G? Considering
under 9 g's the aortic root can elongate as much as 1/2 (1.25 cm).
Interesting thought. Guess we will find out how the current generation of
female fast mover types fair from the gynecological end of the flying in
high G environments. Will they have a higher incidence of urterine prolapse
or cystoceol as they enter their 5th and 6th decades? Would seem
athrosclerosis has protected us ol' farts so far from the cardiovascular
effects of the high G environment.
Viperdoc
> [Original Message]
> From: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/24/2006 1:12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [CONTENT] RE: Yak-List: Altitude Chamber locations
(Centrifuge)
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
>
> Being the professional gynecologist I must say the list may not be
> familiar with kegels...but if if you can increase the circulation in
> your head with the pelvic floor muscles you don't need to do
> kegels !! Thats one hell of a PC muscle !!
>
> I have had a couple of menopausal women in the back seat for mild
> acro - maybe I should change my instructions from AGSM to kegels.
> I'll publish some video to this google video site when I have some
> time and figure it out.
>
> I have about 75 mins of cockpit video with Sergei critiquing my spins
> and vertical line. I also have him fly a short routine. I'll have
> to put some of this soon.
>
> Herb "doc"
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Sarah Tobin wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sarah Tobin" <vorchaser@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I don't remember this story, but I will push the "i believe button"
> > and go with it...
> >
> > apparently I didn't know the AGSM back then.
> >
> > Always good to practice your AGSM...it's like kegels! ;)
> >
> > Smash
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from UK |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Find a friend that has a son or daughter in England and have them ship is
back to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Shipping from UK
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Can any of you Brits out there tell me the most economical means for
> shipping a box approx 3 ft square weighing about 75 lbs to the US.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: S&F Hotel form |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I had no trouble, I received a hotel confirmation within 2 hours this afternoon.
Ernie
On 1/24/06, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Troops,
> Evidently EAA WB has been having some troubles with their FAX machine.
> Myself and others have had some trouble. Anyway use the form below and
> e-mail to Warbrd@aol.com. Note the spelling, it is correct. You should
> be able to copy and paste and fill in the form in a new e-mail.
>
> Pappy
>
>
> SUN 'N FUN 2006 ROOM RESERVATIONS
>
> The event starts on Tuesday, April 4th 2006; occupancy of reserved rooms may
> start Saturday April 1st. You must be a Warbirds member; one room per
> aircraft, and priority is given to pilots bringing warbird aircraft until
> January 26th. OUR CUT OFF DATE IS MARCH 5th. At that time any unused rooms
> will be returned to the hotel. If we have not received your reservation by
> March 5th, we cannot give you a room. Please do not write for rooms after
> that date. You must fill out the form completely! Do not leave blank spaces;
> we need this information to reserve your room. All attempts will be made to
> accommodate specific room and bed size requests; however, we cannot
> guarantee your requests. NOTE: You will be charged one night deposit if you
> do not cancel by 3 pm on your arrival date. Mail this form with credit card
> information or a check for $77.28 per room (payable to EAA Warbirds of
> America) to the address below. If using credit card, please ensure that all
> of the required credit card information is completed.
>
> PLEASE PRINT
>
>
>
> City/State/Zip______________________________________E-Mail______________________________
>
> Home Phone_______________________________________Warbird
> #___________________________
>
> Arrival
> Date_______________________________________Departure
> Date_______________________
>
> Number of Nights________Number in Party________Room Type _____King
> ____Standard (2 Beds)
>
> _________Smoking _________Non
> Smoking
>
> Credit Card Information ______Mastercard _______Visa_______American
> Express______Discover
>
> Card
> Number________________________________________________Expiration
> Date____________
>
> Name as it appears on
> Card______________________________________________________________
>
> Comments_____________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> Hotel: Holiday Inn Winter Haven, FL., 1150 Third Street NW, Winter Haven,
> FL. 33880 Phone: 863-294-4451
>
> MAIL WITH A DEPOSIT OF $77.28 PER ROOM PAYABLE TO "EAA WARBIRDS OF AMERICA"
> OR INCLUDE CREDIT CARD INFORMATION TO:
>
> CHARLOTTE HARRISON
> 17037 E. 79TH ST N.
> OWASSO, OK 74055
>
> OR FAX TO (918) 272-5520 NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from UK |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Great suggestion, but the thing is, I dont have a friend or relative
there. So my question still stands as to the best way that I can
arrange to have something shipped from an address in the UK to me
whereas I can pay for it from here.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ernie
On 1/24/06, cgalley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Find a friend that has a son or daughter in England and have them ship is
> back to you.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:07 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Shipping from UK
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Can any of you Brits out there tell me the most economical means for
> > shipping a box approx 3 ft square weighing about 75 lbs to the US.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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