Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:13 AM - Re: Chutes for sale (Daniel Fortin)
2. 04:39 AM - Re: Re Helmet Help: help wanted ! (cdustercc)
3. 04:42 AM - Yak 52 Fabric (Frank Haertlein)
4. 04:50 AM - Re: Yak 52 Fabric (cdustercc)
5. 05:15 AM - Re: Yak 52 Fabric (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 05:47 AM - Re: Yak 52 Fabric (George Coy)
7. 07:20 AM - Flight suits, again..... (Janet Davidson)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Fraser, Gus)
9. 08:14 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Jon Boede)
10. 08:14 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (ggg6@att.net)
11. 08:52 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Fraser, Gus)
12. 08:53 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Fraser, Gus)
13. 11:04 AM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Roger Kemp)
14. 11:17 AM - New RPA Website (Drew Blahnick)
15. 02:28 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (David McGirt)
16. 03:26 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
17. 03:56 PM - Re: help wanted ! (Jim Griffin)
18. 04:07 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Frank Haertlein)
19. 04:30 PM - Re: help wanted ! (Daniel Fortin)
20. 04:50 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
21. 05:00 PM - test (Frank Haertlein)
22. 05:02 PM - test (Frank Haertlein)
23. 06:02 PM - TICO (cjpilot710@aol.com)
24. 06:14 PM - Re: TICO (Ernest Martinez)
25. 06:37 PM - Flight Suits -The dead horse RISES (Roger Kemp)
26. 06:42 PM - TICO (FamilyGage@aol.com)
27. 07:38 PM - Wing Over Miami (cjpilot710@aol.com)
28. 08:37 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Brian Lloyd)
29. 08:50 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Brian Lloyd)
30. 08:50 PM - Re: Wing Over Miami (Ernest Martinez)
31. 08:54 PM - Re: Flight Suits -The dead horse RISES (Brian Lloyd)
32. 09:06 PM - Re: Wing Over Miami (Brian Lloyd)
33. 09:09 PM - Re: help wanted ! (Shinden33)
34. 10:34 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Sarah Tobin)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Jerome,
Unfortunately for you, the FAA doesn't see it that way. To the best of my
knowledge, unless it is TSO certified (and visualy indicated) they canot be
used in a US aircraft.
My 2cents.
Dan
>From: "Jerome van der Schaar" <jvds30@hotmail.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Chutes for sale
>Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:13:59 +0100 (West-Europa (standaardtijd))
>
>Dan,
>
>Chutes are JAA form 1 certified, which is pretty much the same.
>
>Jerome
>
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: Daniel Fortin
>Date: 02/12/06 12:59:46
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Chutes for sale
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
>Jerome,
>
>Are the perachute TSO certified?
>
>Dan
>
>
> >From: "Jerome van der Schaar" <jvds30@hotmail.com>
> >To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Yak-List: Chutes for sale
> >Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:57:26 +0100 (West-Europa (standaardtijd))
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >I've got two parachutes for sale:
> >
> >RE-5 L Series 5, emergency Parachute for jump master and crew members
> >Characteristics Series 5
> >Activation automatic
> >Operating speed 0 - 327 km/h
> >Gross weight 50 - 115 kg
> >Canopy area 42 sqm Rate of descent 6,5 m/s (100 kg)
> >Min. deployment altitude 60 m
> >Pack dimensions (cm) 55x37x9 Weight (kg) 7,5 Pack intervall 360 days
> >For images: http://www.spekon.de/fall_rettung_re-5l_eng.htm
> >
> >Any interest? please contact me at info@yakkes.com
> >
> >Ciao,
> >
> >Jerome
> ><< 350933_new.jpg >>
>
>
>====================================
>====================================
>====================================
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Re Helmet Help: help wanted ! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc" <craig@craftairservices.com>
I use the SPH 4 for ag flying and I love it. It has an air gap around your ears
that makes it much cooler than the HGU series helmets. A great ad on is a noise
canceling mod that is available from Ron Deck at Sky Tractor Supply. There
are a lot of surplus ones on ebay and a deal can be had from time to time.
It sounds like Clif got a great deal though. I have a lot of problems with the
screws loosening up though, so a little loc tite is nice to use when working
on Gentex products.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11794#11794
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
OH, Mike
Forgot to mention that instead of rib stitching you can use the fabric
rivets from Aircraft Spruce PN 09-18900.
I've had them on my ailerons and elevator for 4 years now and no problems.
Regards
Frank
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Fabric |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc" <craig@craftairservices.com>
I recently un-covered a bunch of control surfaces with the hard foam treatment
inside. They all had moisture damage. It was apparent that they had been primed
and painted before covering, but the foam held enough moisture to rust the
tubing severly. These were all in ag service so they were treated roughly and
they had been sealed up for an estimated twenty years. The foam was heavier
than you would think so ballancing would be a concern. I have read that on some
severe applications, instead of using tape, people have double covered surfaces
with success. I think they used a heavy grade to cover, followed by the
medium weight fabric all over instead of just where you overlap metal. A gentleman
at sun-n-fun told me that is how they used to cover the Howard DGA.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11798#11798
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Fabric |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
The best fix I've seen so far, (I have no knowledge of using the Styrofoam
technique), is to put two round "button patches" about 1.5" in diameter,
sewn between the surfaces of the rudder. One about 3-4" in front of the
trailing edge of the rudder midway between the ribs and the second one about
8-10" forward of that. This pulls the fabric taunt and helps eliminate the
resonant vibrations we experience from the prop and so much left rudder. If
I'm not mistaken, the first Yak 52W's which did not have the metalized
control surfaces, had these button patches from the Aerostar factory.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Fabric
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Mike
> The Russian primer is impervious to even paint stripper. I had to remove
> some from a few parts and I found a witches brew of MEK, 100LL, paint
> stripper, JET A and a few other things I can't remember did the
> job.....but
> not without allot of scrubbing :)
>
> Don't worry about the Russian primer...it's some of the best in the
> business. Your covering process won't touch it.
>
> As viewed from the rear, the upper left part of the rudder is prone to
> cracking on all YAKs due to pounding from the prop blast. Some people have
> put hard foam formers under this area to stiffen the fabric and help keep
> the paint from cracking due to the prop blast.
>
> Frank
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "George Coy" <george@gesoco.com>
Mike,
We use the Russian way of stitching. We also add a few "dollar" patches in
the middle of the span on the rudder and a few stitches between the sides at
the "dollar" patches. This helps keep the fabric from "drumming" and
cracking paints.
George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Bell
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:29 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Fabric
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Bell" <yakflyr@comcast.net>
I am about to recover my Yak 52 control surfaces and have a couple of
questions. I removed the rudder fabric and discovered the unusual way they
do their rib-stitching. The ribs are drilled and the stiches go chord-wise
instead of around the rib span-wise like most aircraft. Is this how others
are doing the stitching?
The yellow Russian primer is almost immune to MEK. That's supposed to mean
it's OK to use Stits products without re-priming everything. Anybody had
trouble with Stits being imcompatible with Russian primer?
I have read of several fixes for cracked paint on the rudder. One thing that
looks like it would help is to use 2 inch finishing tapes. The Russians use
one inch, and that leaves the fabric directly touching the forward edge of
the trailing edge metal with no reinforcement. My cracks seem to come from
that area and radiate forward. Two-inch tapes on the ribs would stiffen the
fabric too.
--------
Mike Bell
Yak 52
Elk Grove, CA
yakflyr@comcastdotnet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11743#11743
Message 7
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Does CarbonX make a thong?
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
> suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago
> I
> wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
> archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
> test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
> about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped
> over
> and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
> cockpit).
>
> Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
> getting
> lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in
> your
> green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
> underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to
> take
> to get that out of your skin ?
>
> I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
> and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
> all want to get lucky.
>
> This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy
> tail
> wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
> that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a
> device
> to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear
> (BTW
> Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
>
> My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
> get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
> hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon
> on
> any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
>
> Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
> www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
>
> After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
> interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
> Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
> If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is
> worth
> reading the article.
>
> Janet
>
>
> Ph: 920 232 9238
> email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but remember if your
cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of Halon will displace the oxygen,
and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly. That was always a big concern
in the big simulator bays at the airline training facilities when we were
taking check rides or training, as they have very large Halon tanks installed
in the simulator rooms, to flood the place with Halon. I always figured that
they wanted to save the Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators
cost the company money, pilots are expendable... Just a thought... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>: --------------
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
>
> Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
> suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
> wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
> archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
> test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
> about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
> and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
> cockpit).
>
> Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
> lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
> green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
> underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
> to get that out of your skin ?
>
> I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
> and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
> all want to get lucky.
>
> This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
> wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
> that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
> to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
> Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
>
> My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
> get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
> hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
> any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
>
> Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
> www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson"
>
> After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
> interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
> Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
> If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
> reading the article.
>
> Janet
>
>
>
> Ph: 920 232 9238
> email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but remember if your
cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of Halon will displace the oxygen,
and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly. That was always a big concern
in the big simulator bays at the airline training facilities when we were
taking check rides or training, as they have very largeHalon tanks installed
in the simulatorrooms, to flood the place with Halon. I always figured that they
wanted to save the Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators
cost the company money, pilots are expendable... Just a thought... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" gus.fraser@gs.com: --------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <GUS.FRASER@GS.COM>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar
, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need
to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <GBVFX@HOTMAIL.COM>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complime
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 11
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Banana hammocks are a thong of the past.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Does CarbonX make a thong?
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
>
> Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to
> make suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a
> year ago I wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think
> still in the archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to
> the people that test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800
> deg fire you get about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my
> aircraft has flipped over and catches I want about 10 to get out (also
> halon extinguisher in the cockpit).
>
> Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
> getting lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there
> you are in your green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and
> synthetic gear underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery
> it is going to take to get that out of your skin ?
>
> I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800
> deg and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets
> face it we all want to get lucky.
>
> This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy
> tail wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher
> now and if that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I
> now have a device to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my
> carbonX under wear (BTW Janet, the company I got my stuff from make
> ladies undergarments also).
>
> My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I
> need to get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit
> fire I am hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy
> spray halon on any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
>
> Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check
> out www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet
> Davidson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
>
> After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a
> really interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by
> Spencer Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and
explained why.
> If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is
> worth reading the article.
>
> Janet
>
>
> Ph: 920 232 9238
> email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
I know, I have thought about that and I will promise to try and break the
worlds record for holding my breath if the worst happens, I figure the trade
off with the effectiveness of Halon kind of evens out.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ggg6@att.net
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but remember if
your cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of Halon will displace the
oxygen, and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly. That was always a
big concern in the big simulator bays at the airline training facilities
when we were taking check rides or training, as they have very large Halon
tanks installed in the simulator rooms, to flood the place with Halon. I
always figured that they wanted to save the Simulators, and not concerned
with the pilots, Simulators cost the company money, pilots are expendable...
Just a thought... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>:
--------------
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
>
> Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
> suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago
I
> wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
> archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
> test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
> about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped
over
> and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
> cockpit).
>
> Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
getting
> lucky in the bar , and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in
your
> green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
> underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to
take
> to get that out of your skin ?
>
> I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
> and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
> all want to get lucky.
>
> This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy
tail
> wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
> that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a
device
> to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear
(BTW
> Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
>
> My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
> get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
> hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon
on
> any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
>
> Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
> www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson"
>
> After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
> interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
> Suderman. He was not overly complime
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I know, I have thought about that and I will promise to try
and break the worlds record for holding my breath if the worst happens, I figure
the trade off with the effectiveness of Halon kind of evens
out.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ggg6@att.net
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:14
AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List:
Flight suits, again.....
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but
remember if your cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of Halon
will displace the oxygen, and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly.
That was always a big concern in the big simulator bays at the airline
training facilities when we were taking check rides or training, as they have
very largeHalon tanks installed in the simulatorrooms, to flood
the place with Halon. I always figured that they wanted to save the
Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators cost the company
money, pilots are expendable... Just a thought... Gary
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message from "Fraser, Gus" gus.fraser@gs.com:
--------------
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser,
Gus" <GUS.FRASER@GS.COM>
Spencer has been working with a
few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots
rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article
for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I
sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test
racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in
the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does
nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar , and
even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit
wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX
underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all
means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all
want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got
the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping
in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not
sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the
glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an
event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any
in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with,
bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like
hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is
well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
To:
yak-list-digest@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits,
again.....
-- Yak-List message posted by: "Janet
Davidson" <GBVFX@HOTMAIL.COM>
After all the discussions
last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting
article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complime
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 13
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
What's a little Hypoxia in close places? It'll make you not care that your nuts
are roasting in the fire.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/13/2006 10:22:59 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but remember if your
cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of Halon will displace the oxygen,
and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly. That was always a big concern
in the big simulator bays at the airline training facilities when we were
taking check rides or training, as they have very large Halon tanks installed
in the simulator rooms, to flood the place with Halon. I always figured that
they wanted to save the Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators
cost the company money, pilots are expendable... Just a thought... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>: --------------
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus"
>
> Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
> suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
> wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
> archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
> test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
> about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
> and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
> cockpit).
>
> Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
> lucky in the bar , and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
> green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
> underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
> to get that out of your skin ?
>
> I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
> and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
> all want to get lucky.
>
> This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
> wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
> that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
> to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
> Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
>
> My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
> get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
> hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
> any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
>
> Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
> www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
> To: yak-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson"
>
> After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
> interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
> Suderman. He was not overly complime
Message 14
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|
Folks,
New website is up, search around, content modules are in place for about 80%
of it, here you will find:
More on the public side, if its members only, when that module/room is clicked,
it will simply prompt you to log in.
CFI database, entire FAST pilot database/currency record, RedStars Airshows schedule
and sign up form (I will be adding a form plug in for you to add a airshow
to the redstars schedule as well) , membership locator database, - all diplayed
on the site, no downloading a PDF - just click and look...bylaws are up,
treasury reports, over 30 flight training documents like Yak 50/52/CJ checklists,
training syllabuss', jet training docs, web page dedicated to putting you
member websites up as links (need to send them to admin@flyredstar.org ) and
more...
We will be cleaning up event registration module to make events easier to find
and register for next and expanding the Tactical formation section for tac,
wedge, fighting wing and other form types...
Membership Cards: You can see what the new cards look like under services-"about
us" where the association logo and patch designs are listed. Please note
- I need one more volunteer to help coordinate with our card vendor to get this
done - not a big job, couple emails, couple phone calls to get the system in
place, no mailing (cards are sent by vendors) big stuff already completed,
if you want to join the RPA staff as membership card program manager, 375 members
would be happy to welcome your assistance!
Thanks to all the volunteers who have come forward to make all the programs execute
- well done!
If you are overdue membership, the web coder must remove you from the rolls tonight
to put in place the new database system, the online store will have a "new
membership" product to join.
Drew
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
"Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
getting lucky in the bar"
DUH! Why the hell do you think we all wear them! Well, that , and the fact
that the RedStar group looks like a group at FunFly's.. call it an
unofficial uniform..
Seriously though, that is great information. Thank you for sharing it.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
I am sure there are those that are just WAITING for me to come out of the
woodwork on THIS issue, and are saying small prayers for me to just keep my
mouth shut.
Sorry...
Since the real truth about Flight Suits is finally out in the open (and may
I say it's about time?), would it be a sin to propose that the requirement
to wear a Flight Suit for any RPA FAST Card training be waived? That is, as
long as there is not a public audience at the training event?
My point being.... I can fully understand the desire to look good in front
of the public, and that the wearing of shorts and tea-shirts doesn't convey
the kind of professionalism that a worn out Flight Suit covered with "I've
been there and done that" patches does.... not to mention increasing the
chances of getting "Lucky". That said, calling the Flight Suit an
UNOFFICIAL (or even OFFICIAL) uniform actually makes sense.
Can I go even further and suggest that the organization adopt the same rules
concerning parachutes that the FAA does?
Probably not....
Oh well, never mind.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
"Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
getting lucky in the bar"
DUH! Why the hell do you think we all wear them! Well, that , and the fact
that the RedStar group looks like a group at FunFly's.. call it an
unofficial uniform..
Seriously though, that is great information. Thank you for sharing it.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: help wanted ! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Hi Doug
The HGU 33 with the single hidden visor is the most sought after and the
lightest especially if you get made of Kevlar instead of fiberglass. Next is
the HGU 55 which has a exposed single visor and is light. You can order an
ANR kit from Headsets Inc and change it over yourself for about 130 bucks.
That is who flightsuits INC uses.
The helo helmets are OK but are wider at the ear level and heavier. You will
notice it with acro. You don't need ANR with a well fitted helmet in a CJ.
Good luck.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: help wanted !
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Need some help to further my education of helmets, What is best,
> affordable,
> etc. Who can tell me about the usability of GENTEX SPH-4B helicopter
> helmets?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerome van der
> Schaar
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:09 AM
> To: undisclosed-recipients@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: help wanted !
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerome van der Schaar"
> <jvds30@hotmail.com>
>
> For next airshow season, we are rebuilding an old English Bus into a vip
> unit. If you could be of any help for us, please have a look at:
>
> http://www.yakkes.com
>
> Thanks..
>
> Jerome
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
Mark
Though I agree with ya' I think your pissin' in the wind........... For me
it's the one sore point with RedStars. Everything else about the
organization I can agree with.
One day, at a RedStars event someone is going to say "Frank, you can't fly
because you don't have a suit". To which I will respond....."OK, then I
won't fly".
Simple, isn't it?
Best Regards
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
I am sure there are those that are just WAITING for me to come out of the
woodwork on THIS issue, and are saying small prayers for me to just keep my
mouth shut.
Sorry...
Since the real truth about Flight Suits is finally out in the open (and may
I say it's about time?), would it be a sin to propose that the requirement
to wear a Flight Suit for any RPA FAST Card training be waived? That is, as
long as there is not a public audience at the training event?
My point being.... I can fully understand the desire to look good in front
of the public, and that the wearing of shorts and tea-shirts doesn't convey
the kind of professionalism that a worn out Flight Suit covered with "I've
been there and done that" patches does.... not to mention increasing the
chances of getting "Lucky". That said, calling the Flight Suit an
UNOFFICIAL (or even OFFICIAL) uniform actually makes sense.
Can I go even further and suggest that the organization adopt the same rules
concerning parachutes that the FAA does?
Probably not....
Oh well, never mind.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
"Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
getting lucky in the bar"
DUH! Why the hell do you think we all wear them! Well, that , and the fact
that the RedStar group looks like a group at FunFly's.. call it an
unofficial uniform..
Seriously though, that is great information. Thank you for sharing it.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
"
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
"
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: help wanted ! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Doug and all,
I just bought a new helmet (from Flight Suit) and opted for a modified
HGU55, modified in the sense that it is a 55 with the 33 visor on it.
My logic is as follow; At first, I was going for the HGU84, which is
basically a 55 but built for helicopters. Helicopters helmets are built much
stronger then their fix wing counterparts, which made me think I would be
better protected with the helo style. The problems with helo helmet are:
first the extra strength is on the side since most helo crash involve a side
impact and they are almost twice as heavy as a fix wing. I am a big guy, but
tough the extra weight on my neck while doing acro was to much a down fall
compare to the extra protection (that will most likely not help me in a fix
wing crash). So I went with a fix wing. Why the HGU55 with the 33 visor
instead of the strait HGU33? Simple, the HGU55 is designed for fighter
pilots and is cut much higher in the back of the head then the HGU33 is. The
difference is the 55 allows greater head movement freedom which in my
opinion is necessary for the type of flying I do.
Total cost for an XL Painted Kevlar HGU55 (with HGU33 visor) with the top of
the line microphone, ANR, Oxygen mask connector (I need those for my Fouga)
interchangeable communication cords (2) and installation kit for electrical
power(from aircraft to ANR) comes to $1600US.
Cheers,
Dan
>From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: help wanted !
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:53:31 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
>Hi Doug
>The HGU 33 with the single hidden visor is the most sought after and the
>lightest especially if you get made of Kevlar instead of fiberglass. Next
>is the HGU 55 which has a exposed single visor and is light. You can order
>an ANR kit from Headsets Inc and change it over yourself for about 130
>bucks. That is who flightsuits INC uses.
>The helo helmets are OK but are wider at the ear level and heavier. You
>will notice it with acro. You don't need ANR with a well fitted helmet in a
>CJ. Good luck.
>Jim Griffin
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:40 PM
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: help wanted !
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>>
>>Need some help to further my education of helmets, What is best,
>>affordable,
>>etc. Who can tell me about the usability of GENTEX SPH-4B helicopter
>>helmets?
>>
>>Always Yakin,
>>Doug Sapp
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerome van der
>>Schaar
>>Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:09 AM
>>To: undisclosed-recipients@matronics.com
>>Subject: Yak-List: help wanted !
>>
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerome van der Schaar"
>><jvds30@hotmail.com>
>>
>>For next airshow season, we are rebuilding an old English Bus into a vip
>>unit. If you could be of any help for us, please have a look at:
>>
>>http://www.yakkes.com
>>
>>Thanks..
>>
>>Jerome
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Flight suits, again..... |
Frank (and all),
What Redstar requires of their members at events is to me... a Redstar
member issue and one that I personally am NOT commenting on. And as you
said, every member has the right to simply refuse to fly.
My comment was directed 100% ONLY at receiving training. Nothing else. Not
air shows, not fly-in's, etc. Simply training events.
Best regards,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
Mark
Though I agree with ya' I think your pissin' in the wind........... For me
it's the one sore point with RedStars. Everything else about the
organization I can agree with.
One day, at a RedStars event someone is going to say "Frank, you can't fly
because you don't have a suit". To which I will respond....."OK, then I
won't fly".
Simple, isn't it?
Best Regards
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
I am sure there are those that are just WAITING for me to come out of the
woodwork on THIS issue, and are saying small prayers for me to just keep my
mouth shut.
Sorry...
Since the real truth about Flight Suits is finally out in the open (and may
I say it's about time?), would it be a sin to propose that the requirement
to wear a Flight Suit for any RPA FAST Card training be waived? That is, as
long as there is not a public audience at the training event?
My point being.... I can fully understand the desire to look good in front
of the public, and that the wearing of shorts and tea-shirts doesn't convey
the kind of professionalism that a worn out Flight Suit covered with "I've
been there and done that" patches does.... not to mention increasing the
chances of getting "Lucky". That said, calling the Flight Suit an
UNOFFICIAL (or even OFFICIAL) uniform actually makes sense.
Can I go even further and suggest that the organization adopt the same rules
concerning parachutes that the FAA does?
Probably not....
Oh well, never mind.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ]On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
"Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
getting lucky in the bar"
DUH! Why the hell do you think we all wear them! Well, that , and the fact
that the RedStar group looks like a group at FunFly's.. call it an
unofficial uniform..
Seriously though, that is great information. Thank you for sharing it.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make
suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I
wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the
archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that
test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get
about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over
and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the
cockpit).
Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting
lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your
green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear
underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take
to get that out of your skin ?
I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg
and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we
all want to get lucky.
This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail
wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if
that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device
to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW
Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).
My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to
get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am
hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on
any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.
Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out
www.beasafepilot.com his web site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Janet Davidson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
After all the discussions last year about flight suits, there was a really
interesting article in this month's Sport Aerobatic magazine by Spencer
Suderman. He was not overly complimentary about Nomex, and explained why.
If you are a flightsuit wearer, and have access to the magazine, it is worth
reading the article.
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
test
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Frank Haertlein <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Message 23
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On March 9-10-11-12 The Valiant Air Command is having their annual TICO
airshow at TIX.
The 9th is media day and a formation will take VIPs and media up to EVB for
lunch. That night will have a free open bar at a 'flight suit' party. (See
why we have you wearing flight suits :-D )
I just talked to Ken Terry about what they can offer in the way of
reinvestments.
$50.00 per night toward hotel.
Gas and oil, to and from TIX, up to a maxium of $500.00.
Gas and oil during the airshow.
Smoke oil.
However this is for VAC members only unfortunately.
If you wish to join the VAC in order to obtain all these great bennies, it
cost about $75.00.
If you are a non member, they may or may not let you fly in the show.
Please don't ask me how they will determine who does and who does not fly.
VAC is a 501-3c organization so all expenses are tax deductible.
This not an official RPA event although a number of the people there would
love to have us there. I've been a member and supporter for almost ten years
and am concern about the future of this airshow. It is suffering I feel from
poor management and deeply intrenched non aviators. But I always have a
good time. So if you want to fly, show-up and join-up.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
You can count me in if they pay for the room, I figure that'll cover
my membership fee.
Ernie
On 2/13/06, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> On March 9-10-11-12 The Valiant Air Command is having their annual TICO
> airshow at TIX.
> The 9th is media day and a formation will take VIPs and media up to EVB for
> lunch. That night will have a free open bar at a 'flight suit' party. (See
> why we have you wearing flight suits :-D )
>
> I just talked to Ken Terry about what they can offer in the way of
> reinvestments.
>
> $50.00 per night toward hotel.
> Gas and oil, to and from TIX, up to a maxium of $500.00.
> Gas and oil during the airshow.
> Smoke oil.
>
> However this is for VAC members only unfortunately.
>
> If you wish to join the VAC in order to obtain all these great bennies, it
> cost about $75.00.
>
> If you are a non member, they may or may not let you fly in the show.
> Please don't ask me how they will determine who does and who does not fly.
>
> VAC is a 501-3c organization so all expenses are tax deductible.
>
> This not an official RPA event although a number of the people there would
> love to have us there. I've been a member and supporter for almost ten
> years and am concern about the future of this airshow. It is suffering I
> feel from poor management and deeply intrenched non aviators. But I always
> have a good time. So if you want to fly, show-up and join-up.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Flight Suits -The dead horse RISES |
Gang,
Personally, I wear a flight suit some of the time and don't other times. Just depends
on do I plan on getting crazy or not. Not worried about getting lucky in
the bar. After 32 years with the same bride, I don't need the heartaches associated
with infidelity! I got LUCKY!
I look at the flight suit as a way to minimize the risk of something getting free
from my pockets and end up the bellcrank on the backside of a loop, Cuban 8,
Split S ect.. I also hate sitting on my wallet on that parachute for an hour
also. I know I could just dump my pockets before I go fly. In the summer down
here in LA, I fly with shorts that have zippered cargo pockets. Now that is
a lot of exposed skin to Bar-B-Q if something torches. Now, how many inflight
YAK / ChiJAK fires have occured here in the Colonies anyway? I can not recall
any in my limited association with the RPA community. Key word Brian, limited
association!
As Stitch has said in the past, myself included, cotton offers more protection
from polonged exposure to fire than Nomex. All Nomex offers if flash fire protection
when the bang seat ,as some call it, launches your little pink ass rudely
out into that 00 to 600+ kts slipstream! We are not talking about roasting
the duck in the cockpit just sitting there in a flaming pit. If that happens,
well it was just your unlucky day! Just hope you do not take to many deep breaths
frying your lungs and were not wearing your nylon/banlon party suit! It'll
be along time on the ventilator and hours spent in the OR/ Burn unit getting
a new skin attached! That's if you are worried about getting burned.
It all boils down to choices. It could be your chesnuts roasting in the fire. Maybe
mine if I have a bad day. When that day comes, I may or may not have a flight
suit on. Just depends ...just depends...just keep beat'n that horse...As
for the bar...Well some of the members need not need to worry about getting lucky
wearing a flight suit...A TRENCH COAT and a TENT would be more fitting!
Viperdoc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 26
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Gents:
What Pappy has said about the VAC is true. Ken Terry is the Operations
Officer. He is making every attempt to encourage the BOD to waive the membership
requirement for the Air Show.
We both feel that once a War bird owner gets to Titusville, meets some of
the people, and sees the operation at the museum; they may well join the VAC.
Like Pappy, I have been a member for many years. The leadership of the VAC
has changed, and a more positive attitude toward flying aircraft, as opposed
to static planes in the museum.
Ken hopes to have an answer soon as to inviting non-members to participate.
Put March 10-12th on your calendar, you will enjoy the people and the show.
As Pappy said the 9th is media day, however, we do not need everyone there
to fly the press. Some stay in Titusville motels, I usually fly back to the
Creek at night.
If fact, Pappy gave me my first check ride at a VAC formation clinic when I
was flying my scale P-51 which is now on display in the museum. The plane,
not Pappy!
My Best to All,
Ray Gage
Message 27
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This next week-end Feb. 17-18-19 is the Wings Over Miami airshow at Tamiami
airport. A number of RPA members are members of WOM and usually participate
in this show. The WOM usually takes care of fuel used during the show. This
year because of finances they are unable to provide rooms or transportation.
It is a 501-3c organization so all expenses are deductible.
You do not have to be a member of WOM to participate in the airshow, but
must have a commercial, current second class physical, and current FAST card.
I'll be going down there mid day on Friday (maybe earlier).
All aircraft are welcome. Sam Sax is the contact down there.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
David McGirt wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david@mcgirt.net>
>
> "Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of
> getting lucky in the bar"
Uh, that only works if your abs are a six pack. If you happen to have
had a few too many beers in your life you are probably sporting a keg
instead of a six pack. A Nomex flight suit does NOT help in that case.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, again..... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> Mark
>
> Though I agree with ya' I think your pissin' in the wind........... For
> me it's the one sore point with RedStars. Everything else about the
> organization I can agree with.
>
> One day, at a RedStars event someone is going to say "Frank, you can't
> fly because you don't have a suit". To which I will respond....."OK,
> then I won't fly".
No, to which I think you should reply, "this is a public use airfield. I
am a licensed pilot in an airworthy aircraft. All the documentation is
correct per FAA requirements. These are my friends. The airport is open
for normal operations. If I choose to fly in a formation training flight
and you don't like it, please by my guest and go pound sand up your ass."
It is my fervent desire that this annoy the hell out of those whose
desire it is to craft useless and annoying rules and cram them down
other people's throats. There are many government agencies that provide
this service. I do not need it from RPA, AOPA, EAA, or any other service
organization to which I belong.
But not like its important or anything. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Over Miami |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
You need a commercial, even if youre not being compsnsated???
Ernie
On 2/13/06, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> This next week-end Feb. 17-18-19 is the Wings Over Miami airshow at Tamiami
> airport. A number of RPA members are members of WOM and usually participate
> in this show. The WOM usually takes care of fuel used during the show.
> This year because of finances they are unable to provide rooms or
> transportation. It is a 501-3c organization so all expenses are deductible.
>
> You do not have to be a member of WOM to participate in the airshow, but
> must have a commercial, current second class physical, and current FAST
> card. I'll be going down there mid day on Friday (maybe earlier).
>
> All aircraft are welcome. Sam Sax is the contact down there.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Suits -The dead horse RISES |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> It all boils down to choices. It could be your chesnuts roasting in the
> fire. Maybe mine if I have a bad day. When that day comes, I may or may
> not have a flight suit on. Just depends ...just depends...just keep
> beat'n that horse...As for the bar...Well some of the members need not
> need to worry about getting lucky wearing a flight suit...A TRENCH COAT
> and a TENT would be more fitting!
With you 100% on this one doc.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Over Miami |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> You need a commercial, even if youre not being compsnsated???
If they buy your gas or give you a room, you are being compensated
insofar as the FAA is concerned.
Anyone who has the skill to fly in a four-ship has the skill necessary
to get their commercial rating. Just do it and chalk it up to recurring
training. Besides, it's good for your health. You will find that getting
violated by the FAA causes things like increased stress, high blood
pressure, loss of money, and that feeling of needing to choke the sh..
out of someone while not being able to.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 33
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Shinden33" <shinden33@earthlink.net>
Dan,
You can buy one of the 55 or 33's with both the boom mic and Oxygen mask? So
it is wired for a mic in both the boom and the mask or do you switch them
out?
Also you mentioned the 55 was designed for fighter pilots. What was the 33
designed for?
Can you use the military oxygen masks with civilan O2 systems?
Thanks
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Fortin
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: help wanted !
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Doug and all,
I just bought a new helmet (from Flight Suit) and opted for a modified
HGU55, modified in the sense that it is a 55 with the 33 visor on it.
My logic is as follow; At first, I was going for the HGU84, which is
basically a 55 but built for helicopters. Helicopters helmets are built much
stronger then their fix wing counterparts, which made me think I would be
better protected with the helo style. The problems with helo helmet are:
first the extra strength is on the side since most helo crash involve a side
impact and they are almost twice as heavy as a fix wing. I am a big guy, but
tough the extra weight on my neck while doing acro was to much a down fall
compare to the extra protection (that will most likely not help me in a fix
wing crash). So I went with a fix wing. Why the HGU55 with the 33 visor
instead of the strait HGU33? Simple, the HGU55 is designed for fighter
pilots and is cut much higher in the back of the head then the HGU33 is. The
difference is the 55 allows greater head movement freedom which in my
opinion is necessary for the type of flying I do.
Total cost for an XL Painted Kevlar HGU55 (with HGU33 visor) with the top of
the line microphone, ANR, Oxygen mask connector (I need those for my Fouga)
interchangeable communication cords (2) and installation kit for electrical
power(from aircraft to ANR) comes to $1600US.
Cheers,
Dan
>From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: help wanted !
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:53:31 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
>Hi Doug
>The HGU 33 with the single hidden visor is the most sought after and the
>lightest especially if you get made of Kevlar instead of fiberglass. Next
>is the HGU 55 which has a exposed single visor and is light. You can order
>an ANR kit from Headsets Inc and change it over yourself for about 130
>bucks. That is who flightsuits INC uses.
>The helo helmets are OK but are wider at the ear level and heavier. You
>will notice it with acro. You don't need ANR with a well fitted helmet in a
>CJ. Good luck.
>Jim Griffin
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:40 PM
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: help wanted !
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>>
>>Need some help to further my education of helmets, What is best,
>>affordable,
>>etc. Who can tell me about the usability of GENTEX SPH-4B helicopter
>>helmets?
>>
>>Always Yakin,
>>Doug Sapp
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerome van der
>>Schaar
>>Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:09 AM
>>To: undisclosed-recipients@matronics.com
>>Subject: Yak-List: help wanted !
>>
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerome van der Schaar"
>><jvds30@hotmail.com>
>>
>>For next airshow season, we are rebuilding an old English Bus into a vip
>>unit. If you could be of any help for us, please have a look at:
>>
>>http://www.yakkes.com
>>
>>Thanks..
>>
>>Jerome
>>
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>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, again..... |
I disagree with you guys that are saying that a flt suit is only good for picking
up chicks. Having worn a flight suit for the past 9 years, I have come to
know them quite well. Doc can probably back me up on this one...a viper dude
had his giblets roasted because he wore silk boxers on a flight that ended poorly,
but the rest of his body was fine. Point is, that it isn't fire *proof*,
but it is fire retardant. Had he been wearing cotton drawers the story would
be different.
I always wear cotton everything, and I mean everything when I fly my plane OR
when I am on any airliner. Why not give you the added chance of survival? I
don't wear a flt suit to acro competitions cuz I can't bring myself to look like
a dork wearing a flt suit when I am off duty....but I think in an org like
RPA that it isn't a bad idea. Go thru the smoke course in OKC if you get a chance.
They give you a gnd course on what happens in a survivable airline crash
and how the plastic melts on you. They show you what happens to ladies that
wear nylons on flights and dudes in polyester pants...ick. Then they fill the
cabin with 'chocolate smoke' and let you see the limited vis in such a situation.
Anyway, I go on, but the point is...never compromise on safety! :)
Smash
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