Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - New Nomex Flt Suits (Roger Kemp)
2. 05:32 AM - Inverted Spins in the YAK=52 (Roger Kemp)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: Horizon and Clock in the Yak 52 (Rob Rowe)
4. 05:47 AM - Deep breaths everybody.... (Tim Gagnon)
5. 12:22 PM - Re: Inverted Spins in the YAK=52 (Scooter)
6. 01:53 PM - Re: Flight suits, again..... (Ron Davis)
7. 02:33 PM - The best use for flight suits (Jorgen Nielsen)
8. 02:56 PM - IMPORTANT! CJ Weight and Balance calculator (DaBear)
9. 02:59 PM - Re: compensation (forrest johnson)
10. 03:05 PM - Re: The best use for flight suits (PeteAbbott@aol.com)
11. 03:09 PM - There is no level like low level (Tim Gagnon)
12. 03:11 PM - Re: compensation (Stephen Fox)
13. 03:20 PM - Re: CJ6 Weight and Balance Numbers clamav-milter version 0.80j on raptor.cscweb.net (DaBear)
14. 03:22 PM - Re: compensation (ByronMFox@aol.com)
15. 04:42 PM - Re: compensation (Frank Haertlein)
16. 04:58 PM - Re: compensation (Brian Lloyd)
17. 05:00 PM - Re: compensation (Brian Lloyd)
18. 05:00 PM - compensation issue, my second last try. (doug sapp)
19. 05:04 PM - Re: compensation (Brian Lloyd)
20. 05:18 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Ernest Martinez)
21. 05:50 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Frank Haertlein)
22. 05:52 PM - Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. (ByronMFox@aol.com)
23. 06:12 PM - Re: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. (Roger Kemp)
24. 06:16 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Brian Lloyd)
25. 06:55 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Jon Boede)
26. 07:29 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (A. Dennis Savarese)
27. 07:29 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Steve & Donna Hanshew)
28. 08:05 PM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Samuel Sax)
29. 08:48 PM - Degradattion (Ernest Martinez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New Nomex Flt Suits |
For those looking for new nomex flt suits in sizes for the full figured aviator...try www.BDU.com. They go as large a 50 long for $129.00. Just remember to not wash the suit in fabric softener, wear cotton underneath, keep it clean from oils, and wear a loose fitting flight suit, It is for flash fire protection mainly as stated before.
After all, those faded green almost brown ones you found in the surplus store
for a song got there for a reason. They were the ones turned back in for new ones.
This subject is officially declared a smoking hole...the HORSE IS DEAD>>>WE CAN'T
BEAT IT ANY DEADER!
Yeah, I know...Doc you just did!
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 2
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| Subject: | Inverted Spins in the YAK=52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Scooter,
You asked about power and pitch settings for inverted spins in the 52. Try
www.yak-52.com. Click on spins on the website. It has a fairly down and
dirty on what to expect.
Dennis can also send you the Univ of Tenn study on spin entry and recovery
for the YAK-52.
My off-list email got bounced back by Dameon...who ever that sick SOB is
that lives out there in somewhere electro land.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Horizon and Clock in the Yak 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rob Rowe" <yak-list@robrowe.plus.com>
[quote="PHCarter(at)AOL.COM"]Scooter
?
I have seen two versions of the clock's stop watch: One version has a second sweep
on the big dial working for the stopwatch (not the clock) and the sub-dail
for the stopwatch counting the minutes with a 30 minute face., the other version
has the second hand on the big dial working for the clock and the stopwatch?
sub-dial counting minutes with a 30 minute face.?
FYI - the two versions are the -1
-1 = second hand operates with clock, stopwatch sub-dial 60 minutes
-1M = second hand operates with stopwatch, stopwatch sub-dial 30 minutes
Rob R
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13067#13067
Message 4
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| Subject: | Deep breaths everybody.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Everybody, push yoursleves away from the keyboard, tilt your head back, close your
eyes and take some deep breaths....in....out....in...out.....
Let go of the flight suit issue......lets get back to something useful
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13068#13068
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Inverted Spins in the YAK=52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
i've done several inverted spins and haven't noticed any bad habits. i'll save
the flat spins until i have someone in the back who's flat spin proficient.
that or i'll just wear two layers of nomex and go for it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13144#13144
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, again..... |
If you are flying alone, the FAA doesn't require a chute no matter what manuevers
you do. It is written very clearly in the FAR.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
Aren't the words in 91.307 (c) "no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person
(other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds-
" the key wording as to whether you as the pilot flying solo; 1-must wear a
parachute if flying solo and 2- whether or not you can exceed the 60 degrees
of bank and 30 degrees of pitch without a parachute?
Looking for interpretations here.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Fox
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flight suits, again.....
On Feb 16, 2006, at 12:11 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
If I want to burn in my cockpit should there be a fire or not wear a
parachute during formation flight, that is my right to choose. It does
NOT affect your ability to fly your own airplane.
Ok I really wanted to stay out of this in the hopes it would just go away and
die a peaceful death, but like a insidious disease this subject does not seem
to want to die.
OK here's my question, first forget the RPA, are we sure that that wearing
a parachute would not be mandatory by FAR 91.307 paragraph c? I know most times
I have been in a form flight, especially in extended trail, we exceed 60 degrees
of bank and a nose up or nose down of greater than thirty degrees, which
according to the FAA requires you to wear a chute. This doesn't even bring up
whether the FAA looks a formation flying as normal flight.
Message 7
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| Subject: | The best use for flight suits |
Donate them to your r/c pals. (radio control, aka model aeroplanes)
I saw a bunch of them in a (US) magazine picture, all wearing flight suits
with patches as well. There was no text that explained the set-up. Must be
monster model aircraft over there, powered by plutonium or warpdrive or
something?
Glad I live in South Africa, the US seems like a real frightening dangerous
place.
Jorgen
Message 8
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| Subject: | IMPORTANT! CJ Weight and Balance calculator |
If you downloaded and are using the earlier version of my W&B
calculator, please delete it. It has an incorrect weight calculation
for oil. Please use this one attached. Also, the offer to change the
sheet to support your datum/stations is still open.
DaBear
DaBear wrote:
>Here is a version of what I use for W&B in the CJ. Note I use multiple
>stations for the baggage compartment because I have an extended
>compartment and control where the weight goes across those 3 stations.
>If someone needs it modified for their stations, let me know.
>
>DaBear
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
I am pvt. multi eng. inst. over 150 hr form, FAST wing,2500 Pic. The rules call
for Com.,2 Class .Does this make me a lesser stick? I dont think so. I would
like to sign up for the airshow form. pilots. BUT WHY SHOULD I ? Would sombody
please explane the reasoning behind this sort of rationational other than so
much POLITICAL B.S.
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compensation
Hi Doug, Yes You are correct , If You hold a commerical license, You must also
have a current 2nd class medical to be compensated as far as the FAA is concerned...
Gary G
-------------- Original message from "doug sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>: --------------
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "doug sapp"
>
> Am I incorrect in my recollection that it is a commercial AND a second class
> medical. Just having a commercial won't get the job done........right or
> wrong??
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:50 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Wing Over Miami
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez
>
> You need a commercial, even if youre not being compsns ated???
>
> Ernie
>
> On 2/13/06, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> > This next week-end Feb. 17-18-19 is the Wings Over Miami airshow at
> Tamiami
> > airport. A number of RPA members are members of WOM and usually
> participate
> > in this show. The WOM usually takes care of fuel used during the show.
> > This year because of finances they are unable to provide rooms or
> > transportation. It is a 501-3c organization so all expenses are
> deductible.
> >
> > You do not have to be a member of WOM to participate in the airshow, but
> > must have a commercial, current second class physical, and current FAST
> > card. I'll be going down there mid day on Friday (maybe earlier).
> >
> > All aircraft are welcome. Sam Sax is the contact down there.
> >
> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: The best use for flight suits |
Not if you have a flight suit.
Pete
Message 11
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| Subject: | There is no level like low level |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
http://www.atcbox.com/Downloads/Movi...ow%20Level.wmv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13181#13181
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
On Feb 18, 2006, at 5:59 PM, forrest johnson wrote:
> I am pvt. multi eng. inst. over 150 hr form, FAST wing,2500 Pic.
> The rules call for Com.,2 Class .Does this make me a lesser stick?
> I dont think so. I would like to sign up for the airshow form.
> pilots. BUT WHY SHOULD I ? Would sombody please explane the
> reasoning behind this sort of rationational other than so much
> POLITICAL B.S.
The reason is because the air shows will be compensating the
REDSTARS. And the FAA does not allow you to take compensation in any
form be it fuel, rooms or cash without a commercial ticket and a 2nd
class medical
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Weight and Balance Numbers clamav-milter version |
0.80j on raptor.cscweb.net
Jim,
Thanks for all numbers you gave me for W&B last year. Here is a copy of
my spreadsheet using your stations/datum. Looking at your numbers, I
came to a little more forward AFT CG number than you had. So you may or
may not want to use this but I'd like to give you back something for
your assistance. But it is up to you. Let me know if you have any
questions or feedback. Thanks
Dabear
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
While we all have a First Amendment Right to free speech, widely exercised on
this list, the FAA grants us "privileges" to fly. We have no rights of any
type where flight is concerned. So, the FAA says to receive so much as a
sandwich as compensation for appearing at an airshow, we must hold a commercial
ticket and a 2nd class medical. Thems the rules. Sorry, such is the nature of a
privilege. Don't you love semantics? ...Blitz
Message 15
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Byron
Just as food for though......if someone is going to bust my head in or kill
my family then don't I have a NATURAL right to defend myself?
Isn't it a NATURAL right to protect yourself and your family from those that
would do you harm?
Well, of course these are NATURAL rights.......few would argue you can't
protect yourself.
No one has the "privilege" to take these rights away from you.
Ask yourself............... "do I think I have a NATURAL right to do the
following"?
Eat?
Sleep?
Make a living?
Raise your children?
Teach your children as you see fit?
Build a roof over your head?
Transport yourself?
Make clothes?
Build an automobile?
Play a game of chess?
Work in your machine shop?
Research new inventions?
Help your fellow man?
Take a breath of air?
Walk?
Run?
Lift an object?
Skate on a lake?
Fish for your food?
Grow your own food?
Cook your own meals?
Read books?
Speak your mind?
Travel?
Worship your God?
Say a prayer?
Live a full life?
Do you think you have a right to do these things?
Or do you think government GIVES you these rights?
Walking, eating, flying, procreation, driving, talking, hunting, fishing,
home building are all a NATURAL right!
No government entity is "entitled" to GRANT me "privileges" to do these
things.......... because they are not privileges......they are NATURAL
rights!
Frank
PS Are you willing to give away your NATURAL rights to government
regulation? If so then let's start with your PRIVILEGE to free speech.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
forrest johnson wrote:
> I am pvt. multi eng. inst. over 150 hr form, FAST wing,2500 Pic. The
> rules call for Com.,2 Class .Does this make me a lesser stick? I dont
> think so. I would like to sign up for the airshow form. pilots. BUT WHY
> SHOULD I ? Would sombody please explane the reasoning behind this sort
> of rationational other than so much POLITICAL B.S.
Having the commercial rating implies a greater level of demonstrated
capability but the medical requirement is just 100% BS.
They whole medical thing is just so much BS. It tells you that, on the
day you got your exam, you were in reasonable health. You could drop
dead the next day.
Case in point, my father was out flying legally and still playing
basketball. He went in for some minor surgery and they discovered
something very minor in his ECG. They did further tests and decided to
do a triple-bypass. It was 100% successful. He had never suffered a
heart attack. So, with the problem with his heart, he was allowed to fly
with a valid medical certificate. After the problem was corrected and he
was even safer to fly, his medical certificate was revoked. Go figure.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
ByronMFox@aol.com wrote:
> While we all have a First Amendment Right to free speech, widely
> exercised on this list, the FAA grants us "privileges" to fly. We have
> no rights of any type where flight is concerned. So, the FAA says to
> receive so much as a sandwich as compensation for appearing at an
> airshow, we must hold a commercial ticket and a 2nd class medical. Thems
> the rules. Sorry, such is the nature of a privilege. Don't you love
> semantics? ...Blitz
Of course, that begs the question of the FAA's legitimacy. What gives
them the right to grant or not grant "privileges"?
More semantics.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 18
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| Subject: | compensation issue, my second last try. |
I am very aware of what the rules say, and of how the FAA currently
interprets them. My point was only that this poorly written reg will surly
effect us all at some point and I don't think it is in our best interest (as
a group) to just roll over without giving it our best shot. Which I might
add will cost you nothing. So, if you will give me that small point without
further list noise, I would like to see us proceed. I know from our past
history as a group we seem to be nearly incapable of coming to a consensus,
so I expect this will be a uphill fight even within our own ranks. But I am
sure that writing a well worded letter and sending it to the other various
other like minded groups which we believe would have an interest, just might
give us the numbers we need to effect a change in the verbiage of the reg
regarding compensation for static display. The change might be as simple as
moving the medical requirements from a second to a third class, or to a pvt
and a 3rd class. This is ONLY to accept compensation for the static display
of his/her experimental category aircraft. This would not effect performers
that fly for hire, again this is JUST to allow compensation for the the
static display of the aircraft.
And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who plunder
the list on a daily basis, most of you have already weighed in saying that I
am pissing in the wind, so OK please leave it at that, and now lets try to
do something as a group to help our community at large instead of
fragmenting the group with further negative comments. In short, if you
don't have something constructive to say about this issue just shut the hell
up! If we could find even half as much time to devote to this issue as was
spent on the list babbling about non productive issues we would be well on
the way to getting our thoughts into a form that we could present to the
other organizations, and from there to the AOPA and the EAA and hopefully if
we could demonstrate the numbers, they would carry the issue to the FAA.
I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this project, but I
will not do it without the help and co operation of the community at large.
Those of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish to
contribute their thoughts but don't like to use the list because of the
rancorous comments, feel free to contact me off list or call me at the
number below. If I don't get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the
idea.
Doug Sapp
phone 509-826-4610
rvfltd@televar.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:22 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compensation
While we all have a First Amendment Right to free speech, widely exercised
on this list, the FAA grants us "privileges" to fly. We have no rights of
any type where flight is concerned. So, the FAA says to receive so much as a
sandwich as compensation for appearing at an airshow, we must hold a
commercial ticket and a 2nd class medical. Thems the rules. Sorry, such is
the nature of a privilege. Don't you love semantics? ...Blitz
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: compensation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> Byron
> Just as food for though......if someone is going to bust my head in or
> kill my family then don't I have a NATURAL right to defend myself?
What is wrong Frank? I find myself in agreement with you again.
BTW, if you go to ARS, I will be happy to fly with you, provide
instruction, etc., even if you aren't wearing a flight suit. Maybe we
can get a whole cadre of non-flight-suit-wearing pilots to show up at
ARS to fly.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Doug,
I only bother reading posts by a select few people now, otherwise I
just hit the delete button based on topic or author. I have given up
on this list, hence my absence. I nominate you to draft this letter
which I will sign, since your literary prowness is beyond my
capabilities.
Ernie
Message 21
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| Subject: | compensation issue, my second last try. |
Doug
I'm on your side. What do you need to proceed? Money?.... You got it!
......Moral support? .....You got it!
To the other lurkers......... get off your dead asses and speak out to
regain your freedoms! Help Doug in his efforts to promote aviation! Let
those who are engaged in profit answer to the rules of the FAA.....in
keeping with the spirit of their rules. But those of us who do it for fun
shouldn't be hobbled with rules not designed for us. (personally. I despise
government regulation.....but I have to live with it or I'll find a gun to
my head by some well meaning but short sighted peace officer).
For cryin' out loud......let our expenses be covered so it will promote
aviation! We aren't making a profit off of this stuff! If you want to make a
profit then, hell, get your commercial.....I don't give a rats ass.
Look.......If I'm not making a profit, why shouldn't airshow organizers help
pay for the costs of our being there? This isn't a business! It's only to
help defray individual costs and help make aviation more available to
everyone.
Jezzus H Krist......don't get me started........
Frank
Message 22
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| Subject: | Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. |
In a message dated 2/18/2006 5:01:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rvfltd@televar.com writes:
If I don't get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the idea.
Lobbying for a change in the FAA's rules with respect to airshow
compensation, I can happily support, Doug. ...Blitz
Message 23
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| Subject: | Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. |
Doug,
You can add my name to the list also.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/18/2006 7:57:41 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules.
In a message dated 2/18/2006 5:01:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, rvfltd@televar.com
writes:
If I don't get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the idea.
Lobbying for a change in the FAA's rules with respect to airshow compensation,
I can happily support, Doug. ...Blitz
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Feb 18, 2006, at 5:00 PM, doug sapp wrote:
> And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who
> plunder the list on a daily basis,
I am glad to hear you like my posts Doug.
> I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this
> project, but I will not do it without the help and co operation of
> the community at large.
Why do you need the support of the community at large? If you want to
change it, you should try to change it.
> Those of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish
> to contribute their thoughts but don't like to use the list because
> of the rancorous comments, feel free to contact me off list or call
> me at the number below. If I don't get ample reaction to this
> posting I will drop the idea.
I will help if I can.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Unfortunately, the way to change this is to get the issue in front of a
federal judge who's of a mind to take a natural law approach to this... a
strict constitutionalist and someone who's not so fond of so much
government. What does it take to find a judge who's willing to say to the
FAA, "Aren't you supposed to be ENCOURAGING flying?" Which means that
we'll need both luck and money on our side.
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> On Feb 18, 2006, at 5:00 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
>> And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who
>> plunder the list on a daily basis,
>
> I am glad to hear you like my posts Doug.
>
>> I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this
>> project, but I will not do it without the help and co operation of
>> the community at large.
>
> Why do you need the support of the community at large? If you want to
> change it, you should try to change it.
>
>> Those of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish
>> to contribute their thoughts but don't like to use the list because
>> of the rancorous comments, feel free to contact me off list or call
>> me at the number below. If I don't get ample reaction to this
>> posting I will drop the idea.
>
> I will help if I can.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
Count me in Doug. You have my support.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: doug sapp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Yak-List: compensation issue, my second last try.
I am very aware of what the rules say, and of how the FAA currently interprets
them. My point was only that this poorly written reg will surly effect us
all at some point and I don't think it is in our best interest (as a group) to
just roll over without giving it our best shot. Which I might add will cost
you nothing. So, if you will give me that small point without further list noise,
I would like to see us proceed. I know from our past history as a group
we seem to be nearly incapable of coming to a consensus, so I expect this will
be a uphill fight even within our own ranks. But I am sure that writing a well
worded letter and sending it to the other various other like minded groups
which we believe would have an interest, just might give us the numbers we need
to effect a change in the verbiage of the reg regarding compensation for static
display. The change might be as simple as moving the medical requirements
from a second to a third class, or to a pvt and a 3rd class. This is ONLY to
accept compensation for the static display of his/her experimental category aircraft.
This would not effect performers that fly for hire, again this is JUST
to allow compensation for the the static display of the aircraft.
And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who plunder the
list on a daily basis, most of you have already weighed in saying that I am
pissing in the wind, so OK please leave it at that, and now lets try to do something
as a group to help our community at large instead of fragmenting the group
with further negative comments. In short, if you don't have something constructive
to say about this issue just shut the hell up! If we could find even
half as much time to devote to this issue as was spent on the list babbling
about non productive issues we would be well on the way to getting our thoughts
into a form that we could present to the other organizations, and from there
to the AOPA and the EAA and hopefully if we could demonstrate the numbers, they
would carry the issue to the FAA.
I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this project, but I
will not do it without the help and co operation of the community at large. Those
of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish to contribute
their thoughts but don't like to use the list because of the rancorous comments,
feel free to contact me off list or call me at the number below. If I don't
get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the idea.
Doug Sapp
phone 509-826-4610
rvfltd@televar.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:22 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compensation
While we all have a First Amendment Right to free speech, widely exercised
on this list, the FAA grants us "privileges" to fly. We have no rights of any
type where flight is concerned. So, the FAA says to receive so much as a sandwich
as compensation for appearing at an airshow, we must hold a commercial ticket
and a 2nd class medical. Thems the rules. Sorry, such is the nature of a privilege.
Don't you love semantics? ...Blitz
Message 27
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| Subject: | compensation issue, my second last try. |
Count me in. I couldn't agree more. I fly in the shows. Sometimes I sit
static. This has always been a bone of contention within the warbird
community at large. I understand they are protecting their turf, but in many
ways it runs up the overall costs of organizations trying to host shows.
Most airshows I've been acquainted with over the past two to three years
finish 10-15,000 dollars in the red, simply because of the price of the
heavy iron associated with pro-shows like "Planes of Fame". Don't get me
wrong, it costs a lot of money to get a Hellcat, Corsair, Wildcat, Avenger,
and Skyraider on site, but they still charge something like 50K for the
whole shebang. You have to sell a lot of tickets to cover that cost plus
fuel, cars and hotel. Most small shows can't handle it. I've found that they
like the Yak guys cause were cheap and get them a lot of bang for their
buck. The overall Gas bill is light and the folks come to see planes flying
and we can do that for dollars on the hour. Sadly, most don't know a Yak-52
from a P-47. They come to see planes and hear noise. Conversely, we are the
red-headed scum of WOA for that same reason. I can live with it. Sitting
static should not require anything more than a straight-up pilots license
and you should be comped' gas and oil. If you want to fly in the show and
get paid have a commercial, FAST (for formation), fire-retardant wonder bra,
lifetime prescription to viagra, and a picture of Hillary glued face up in
your seat pan as something that might provoke you to bail out in an
emergency.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Yak-List: compensation issue, my second last try.
I am very aware of what the rules say, and of how the FAA currently
interprets them. My point was only that this poorly written reg will surly
effect us all at some point and I don't think it is in our best interest (as
a group) to just roll over without giving it our best shot. Which I might
add will cost you nothing. So, if you will give me that small point without
further list noise, I would like to see us proceed. I know from our past
history as a group we seem to be nearly incapable of coming to a consensus,
so I expect this will be a uphill fight even within our own ranks. But I am
sure that writing a well worded letter and sending it to the other various
other like minded groups which we believe would have an interest, just might
give us the numbers we need to effect a change in the verbiage of the reg
regarding compensation for static display. The change might be as simple as
moving the medical requirements from a second to a third class, or to a pvt
and a 3rd class. This is ONLY to accept compensation for the static display
of his/her experimental category aircraft. This would not effect performers
that fly for hire, again this is JUST to allow compensation for the the
static display of the aircraft.
And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who plunder
the list on a daily basis, most of you have already weighed in saying that I
am pissing in the wind, so OK please leave it at that, and now lets try to
do something as a group to help our community at large instead of
fragmenting the group with further negative comments. In short, if you
don't have something constructive to say about this issue just shut the hell
up! If we could find even half as much time to devote to this issue as was
spent on the list babbling about non productive issues we would be well on
the way to getting our thoughts into a form that we could present to the
other organizations, and from there to the AOPA and the EAA and hopefully if
we could demonstrate the numbers, they would carry the issue to the FAA.
I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this project, but I
will not do it without the help and co operation of the community at large.
Those of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish to
contribute their thoughts but don't like to use the list because of the
rancorous comments, feel free to contact me off list or call me at the
number below. If I don't get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the
idea.
Doug Sapp
phone 509-826-4610
rvfltd@televar.com <mailto:rvfltd@televar.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compensation
While we all have a First Amendment Right to free speech, widely exercised
on this list, the FAA grants us "privileges" to fly. We have no rights of
any type where flight is concerned. So, the FAA says to receive so much as a
sandwich as compensation for appearing at an airshow, we must hold a
commercial ticket and a 2nd class medical. Thems the rules. Sorry, such is
the nature of a privilege. Don't you love semantics? ...Blitz
Message 28
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| Subject: | compensation issue, my second last try. |
Same holds true for me, Doug!
Sam Sax
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compensation issue, my second last try.
Count me in Doug. You have my support.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: doug sapp <mailto:rvfltd@televar.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Yak-List: compensation issue, my second last try.
I am very aware of what the rules say, and of how the FAA currently
interprets them. My point was only that this poorly written reg will surly
effect us all at some point and I don't think it is in our best interest (as
a group) to just roll over without giving it our best shot. Which I might
add will cost you nothing. So, if you will give me that small point without
further list noise, I would like to see us proceed. I know from our past
history as a group we seem to be nearly incapable of coming to a consensus,
so I expect this will be a uphill fight even within our own ranks. But I am
sure that writing a well worded letter and sending it to the other various
other like minded groups which we believe would have an interest, just might
give us the numbers we need to effect a change in the verbiage of the reg
regarding compensation for static display. The change might be as simple as
moving the medical requirements from a second to a third class, or to a pvt
and a 3rd class. This is ONLY to accept compensation for the static display
of his/her experimental category aircraft. This would not effect performers
that fly for hire, again this is JUST to allow compensation for the the
static display of the aircraft.
And please, those of you naysayers and self appointed pundants who plunder
the list on a daily basis, most of you have already weighed in saying that I
am pissing in the wind, so OK please leave it at that, and now lets try to
do something as a group to help our community at large instead of
fragmenting the group with further negative comments. In short, if you
don't have something constructive to say about this issue just shut the hell
up! If we could find even half as much time to devote to this issue as was
spent on the list babbling about non productive issues we would be well on
the way to getting our thoughts into a form that we could present to the
other organizations, and from there to the AOPA and the EAA and hopefully if
we could demonstrate the numbers, they would carry the issue to the FAA.
I have no problem devoting the time and trouble to chair this project, but I
will not do it without the help and co operation of the community at large.
Those of you that feel that this is a worth while project and wish to
contribute their thoughts but don't like to use the list because of the
rancorous comments, feel free to contact me off list or call me at the
number below. If I don't get ample reaction to this posting I will drop the
idea.
Doug Sapp
phone 509-826-4610
rvfltd@televar.com
Message 29
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info
about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people
who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought
it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has
become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy
of any attention at all.
I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list
to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a
few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an
argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a
source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes.
Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist
on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us.
Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While
you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
sick of this shit!
Ernie
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