Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:29 AM - Re: Degradattion (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_N._Iversen?=)
2. 04:30 AM - Thank You Ernie (MICHAEL ROEHR)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Craig Craft)
4. 08:07 AM - Re: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. (Valkyre1)
5. 08:30 AM - Re: Degradattion (Valkyre1)
6. 09:12 AM - Yak List Culture (ByronMFox@aol.com)
7. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (cgalley)
8. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Roger Kemp)
9. 09:47 AM - Re: Yak List Culture (Roger Kemp)
10. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 10:28 AM - Re: Yak List Culture (Stephen Fox)
12. 10:42 AM - Re: Degradattion (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
13. 11:58 AM - Re: Degradattion (Walter Lannon)
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (cgalley)
15. 12:03 PM - Re: Degradattion (Daniel Fortin)
16. 01:59 PM - Re: Degradattion (Brian Lloyd)
17. 02:26 PM - apology (Brian Lloyd)
18. 04:22 PM - Great Fun on the 'list (Craig Payne)
19. 04:33 PM - Alex Solo's this weekend (David McGirt)
20. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (John W. Cox)
21. 05:35 PM - Re: Alex Solo's this weekend (Ernest Martinez)
22. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (doug sapp)
23. 06:58 PM - Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) (Cliff Umscheid)
24. 07:10 PM - 2006 TICO for SE RPA members (cjpilot710@aol.com)
25. 07:16 PM - Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) (Brian Lloyd)
26. 08:05 PM - VAC Show (FamilyGage@aol.com)
27. 08:31 PM - Ernie (Frank Haertlein)
28. 08:34 PM - Re: Degradattion (Frank Haertlein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Degradattion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_N._Iversen?=" <haavard-iversen@c2i.net>
Totally agree with you, I joined last week to maybe have some inputs. The
first day I was bombed with 300 mails!
Daily I receive 50-80 mails. Thats no fun and no use....
Hvard N. Iversen
Televeien 14A
2020 skedsmokorset
mobil: +47 928 93 546
www.yaknorway.com
e-mail: haavard-iversen@c2i.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:45 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info
> about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people
> who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought
> it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has
> become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy
> of any attention at all.
>
> I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list
> to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a
> few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an
> argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a
> source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes.
> Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist
> on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us.
>
> Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While
> you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
> dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
>
> If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
> airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
> of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
> sick of this shit!
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
--
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Message 2
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Ernie, I agree with you. For three years of Yak ownership, I've looked forward
to good information from the group; the forum has been quite valuable to me.
Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the possibility
of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed people
on the list who are also true gentlemen. It would be nice to be able to profit
from their expertise. Ernie, thanks for being willing to say it.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing
expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation
is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form?
Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of
gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it
that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I
probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the
airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be
construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator
reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. |
I am also in support of Doug on this issue and emailing him off list. - Valkyrie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Degradattion |
Having a bad day Ernie? I'm sorry. Does anyone else see the irony in this? laughed
myself silly. - Val
Message 6
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| Subject: | Yak List Culture |
In a message dated 2/19/2006 4:31:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
beach@digitalexp.com writes:
Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the
possibility of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed
people on the list who are also true gentlemen
For reasons unknown, we seem to have an odd culture on the Yak list. When I
owned my Lancair, I read the Lancair list religiously. It was brimming with
useful information and advice from knowledable builders and owners. As a
non-builder, I couldn't have done without it.
Here, we get caught up in opinion only occasionally dealing with our
aircraft. Trigger words like Marvins Mystery Oil, flights suits, helmets and the
FAA
routinely set off a flurry invective. The same seemingly endless musings have
gone on for the four years I've had my CJ.
So, if I've got an airplane problem I call Doug Sapp, Jim Selby or Bill
Blackwell, men with a wonderful willingness to share their experience. I know that
Dennis Savarese, George Coy and Vladimir Yastremski do the same for Y52 owners.
The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish pub. Lots of
good natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally turns ugly. ...Blitz
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird
to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own
the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got
air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"?
How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is
beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches,
two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one
lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't
free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have
typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along
that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could
a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
If I own the warbird, am paying for the maintance, the fuel/oil and myself to fly
to the show, I'll fight it. Also I have not contacted the airshow coordinators
to request compensation, room and board or any form of compensation other
than for my bird to sit in the static display area,I'll fight it. First by wasting
my time with the FSDO and then it sounds like time for a congressional complaint
if they do not reverse their decision. Either way, they are wasting mine
and everyone else's time.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
Sent: 2/19/2006 11:29:34 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird
to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own
the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got
air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"?
How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond
me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches,
two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one
lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't
free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have
typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that
line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could
a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Yak List Culture |
Blitz,
Somewhat like banter in the squadron bar after the beer light is lite. Alot of
banter mixed in with aircraft information. More social with some technical on
the side.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/19/2006 11:17:57 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak List Culture
In a message dated 2/19/2006 4:31:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, beach@digitalexp.com
writes:
Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the possibility
of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed people
on the list who are also true gentlemen
For reasons unknown, we seem to have an odd culture on the Yak list. When I owned
my Lancair, I read the Lancair list religiously. It was brimming with useful
information and advice from knowledable builders and owners. As a non-builder,
I couldn't have done without it.
Here, we get caught up in opinion only occasionally dealing with our aircraft.
Trigger words like Marvins Mystery Oil, flights suits, helmets and the FAA routinely
set off a flurry invective. The same seemingly endless musings have gone
on for the four years I've had my CJ.
So, if I've got an airplane problem I call Doug Sapp, Jim Selby or Bill Blackwell,
men with a wonderful willingness to share their experience. I know that Dennis
Savarese, George Coy and Vladimir Yastremski do the same for Y52 owners.
The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish pub. Lots of good
natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally turns ugly. ...Blitz
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
Unbelievable! Don't misinterpret please. That's carrying it way too far. But,
as long as they have the power and know it, they will continue to usurp it
until someone of an even higher authority puts a stop to it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird
to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't
own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You
got air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing
expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is
beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches,
two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of
one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't
free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have
typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along
that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could
a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Yak List Culture |
On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:10 PM, ByronMFox@aol.com wrote:
> The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish
> pub. Lots of good natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally
> turns ugly. ...Blitz
And just like an Irish Pub every so often you walk through the door
and see a few people in the crowd, who from experience, you know are
going to drive you nuts. So you head home - you didn't need that pint
anyway.
POTUS
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Hilterman Jr." <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
Excellent post Ernie, agree with you 100%.
Hitman
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:45 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info
about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people
who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought
it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has
become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy
of any attention at all.
I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list
to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a
few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an
argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a
source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes.
Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist
on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us.
Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While
you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
sick of this shit!
Ernie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Degradattion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Ernie;
I also agree with you though not exactly 100 %. (Probably about 98.5%). I
think the majority of your comments are right on the money and I
congratulate you on having the balls to tell it like it is.
With regard to your comments on Brian I have to disagree. He does have a CJ6
and I find Brian's technical knowledge a great contribution to the list. I
do wish however that he would learn to "stuff a sock in it" when politics
rear their ugly head.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:45 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info
> about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people
> who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought
> it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has
> become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy
> of any attention at all.
>
> I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list
> to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a
> few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an
> argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a
> source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes.
> Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist
> on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us.
>
> Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While
> you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
> dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
>
> If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
> airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
> of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
> sick of this shit!
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
BUT that has been the past history.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
Unbelievable! Don't misinterpret please. That's carrying it way too far.
But, as long as they have the power and know it, they will continue to usurp it
until someone of an even higher authority puts a stop to it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a
warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't
own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You
got air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing
expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation
is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three
sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use
of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why
isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't
have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along
that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? .
Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Ernie,
I agree. I must admit that when I joined the list, I would read 80% of the
posts. Now, I delete 99% of them based on subjects and authors. Frankly, it
has come to a point where I find little use for it anymore.
Dan
>From: "John W. Hilterman Jr." <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Degradattion
>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:41:44 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Hilterman Jr."
><johnhilterman1@cox.net>
>
>Excellent post Ernie, agree with you 100%.
>
>Hitman
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
>Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:45 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
>This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info
>about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people
>who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought
>it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has
>become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy
>of any attention at all.
>
>I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list
>to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a
>few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an
>argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a
>source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes.
>Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist
>on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us.
>
>Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While
>you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
>dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
>
>If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
>airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
>of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
>sick of this shit!
>
>Ernie
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Degradattion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you.
Perhaps you are right. But I am paid up for the year so what the heck.
> While
> you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You
> dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else.
Uh, I own a CJ6A. I am contemplating the purchase of a Yak-52. I thought
they were Red Star airplanes. But perhaps not.
I also started this list. I like it here.
> If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our
> airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more
> of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm
> sick of this shit!
So am I Ernie. When all I want to do is fly and share with others of
like mind, along comes someone or something that says, "you can't do
that." Annoying as hell that is. It is usually the FAA but occasionally
it comes from another angle, like the RPA.
I get a fair bit of "I agree with you" email from other RPA members so
my point of view is not universally disagreed with. But there are a lot
of people happy with, "that's the way we did it in the military so that
is the way we are going to make people do it here," too. It is a
difference of opinion. I just happen to be pretty vociferous about
voicing my opinion.
But you are free to talk about what you want to talk about here. Go for it.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
You know something Ernie? You are right. I *was* doing exactly what I
was complaining about. I was trying to push my view that people should
be allowed to do what they want to do in their airplanes so long as it
is legal. (The legality thing is another point but I am not going to get
into it here.)
The RPA should be what its participants want it to be. If they want to
require nomex flight suits and prevent some people from participating,
that is their prerogative. I am a participant and I have paid my dues. I
was expressing my opinion but that is as far as it goes.
I was hoping I could convince the RPA not to be exclusionary but that
seems not to be the case. As politically-non-correct as it is, I think
groups *should* be able to exclude people they don't want, whether they
be blacks, women, jews, people without flight suits, or guys who talk
too much.
As for this list, it is the only completely open Yak and CJ forum out
there. The overlap is such that it is easy to get off on the RPA here
when this is not the RPA forum. My bad. I should have been doing this on
the RPA chat forum, not here.
I'll shut up now about flight suits. As doc says, the horse is well and
truly dead.
And I *really* am apologizing for getting carried away. I'm sorry.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 18
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| Subject: | Great Fun on the 'list |
Geez,
Leave for an airshow over the weekend and I miss all the fun on the 'list. Great
80 degree weather in Miami, good friends, good flying. Put the flight suit and
gloves on, fly the show, take off the suit and gloves. Real oppressive, eh?
Guess what, I'd rather be flying.
Craig Payne
Message 19
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| Subject: | Alex Solo's this weekend |
As some of you know, Alex "Gabby" Land turned 16 this weekend.. and , yes,
that means time for a solo!
And like everyone else out there, he solo'd a trainer..
Seriously, Here is a picture of his solo in the Archer today:
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-01.JPG
and
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-02.JPG
But, of course , this is Gabby, What to do next? so the next plane for
today was the Queen Air..
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-03.JPG
http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-04.JPG
And I forgot, he solo'd the Extra 300 and Skybolt, and the CJ-6 yesterday..
Happy Birthday , and Congratulations Alex!!
David McGirt
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
There was a precedent setting case adjudicated by the FAA legal division
in DC about 12 years ago that clarified and set this in motion.
There was a Private pilot operating a Cessna tow plane for his flying
club (back in Nebraska, I recall). He would fly without compensation,
(sandwich or gas) for the chance to provide assistance of other members
of his glider club seeking a tow to altitude. The final interpretation
was that those hours acquired by such action could not be used as logged
"Aeronautical Experience in the seeking of an additional rating... hence
Commercial". Conclusion - he would have had to expend monies to rent a
plane and acquire such additional experience. His reduction in
expenditure =3D more money in his pocket at the end, by not buying the
hours, so he was indirectly compensated and should not have used the
logged entries in pursuit of the next rating.
He filed a lawsuit and the outcome generated an IRS tax ruling and an
FAA policy change at the time that it was indeed a form of tangible
compensation. His attorney failed to prevail. The side note was that he
still got the Commercial many years later after paying to get the needed
hours.
A properly informed administrator and his/her agents can indeed
redirect, reinterpret or change such a legal department conclusion.
Marion Blakely had done a lot for GA but It has not happened since to my
knowledge. It had a big impact on some segments of GA activities.
Somewhere in my files I have the case law.
John Cox - former FAA DPE and now five years removed.
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cgalley
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying
a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if
you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd
class... Why? You got air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft <mailto:cduster@inteliport.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption
for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas
is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on
your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen
bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck
if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an
airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out
loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line
of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a
properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Alex Solo's this weekend |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Happy Birthday Gabby, and congrats!!!!
Ernie
On 2/19/06, David McGirt <david@mcgirt.net> wrote:
>
>
> As some of you know, Alex "Gabby" Land turned 16 this weekend.. and , yes,
> that means time for a solo!
>
>
> And like everyone else out there, he solo'd a trainer..
>
>
> Seriously, Here is a picture of his solo in the Archer today:
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-01.JPG
>
>
> and
>
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-02.JPG
>
>
> But, of course , this is Gabby, What to do next? so the next plane for
> today was the Queen Air..
>
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-03.JPG
>
>
> http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-04.JPG
>
>
> And I forgot, he solo'd the Extra 300 and Skybolt, and the CJ-6 yesterday..
>
>
> Happy Birthday , and Congratulations Alex!!
>
>
> David McGirt
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
John,
When you have time could you contact me off list please.
rvfltd@televar.com
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:24 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
There was a precedent setting case adjudicated by the FAA legal division
in DC about 12 years ago that clarified and set this in motion.
There was a Private pilot operating a Cessna tow plane for his flying club
(back in Nebraska, I recall). He would fly without compensation, (sandwich
or gas) for the chance to provide assistance of other members of his glider
club seeking a tow to altitude. The final interpretation was that those
hours acquired by such action could not be used as logged "Aeronautical
Experience in the seeking of an additional rating. hence Commercial".
Conclusion - he would have had to expend monies to rent a plane and acquire
such additional experience. His reduction in expenditure = more money in
his pocket at the end, by not buying the hours, so he was indirectly
compensated and should not have used the logged entries in pursuit of the
next rating.
He filed a lawsuit and the outcome generated an IRS tax ruling and an FAA
policy change at the time that it was indeed a form of tangible
compensation. His attorney failed to prevail. The side note was that he
still got the Commercial many years later after paying to get the needed
hours.
A properly informed administrator and his/her agents can indeed redirect,
reinterpret or change such a legal department conclusion. Marion Blakely
had done a lot for GA but It has not happened since to my knowledge. It had
a big impact on some segments of GA activities. Somewhere in my files I
have the case law.
John Cox - former FAA DPE and now five years removed.
--
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cgalley
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:24 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a
warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you
didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class...
Why? You got air time as compensation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for
"sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is
compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your
W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty
gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is
taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh
Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the
airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be
construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator
reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 23
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|
Cc: yak-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) |
REAL Pilots don't wear Bras and "undies"! What the hell is this world
coming to? I've never had a Split Tail in the cockpit except to scratch
my jiblets--gently, of course.
TRISTAR
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:16:57 -0600 "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
writes:
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Yeah, I agree. I always found a wool bra to be just way to scratchy
too.
>
> Still, wool is something to consider when flying in the winter.
Brian!
A wool BRA for you to fly in during winter! Way to much INFORMATION for
my niave Ol' MIND!
TMI...just WAY T FRECKING MI!
Viperdoc
Message 24
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| Subject: | 2006 TICO for SE RPA members |
Will non VAC members be able to fly at TICO this year? (TIX Titusville, Fla.
March 9-10-11-12 ,2006)
Yes, BUT ALL registrations MUST be sent to Ken Terry. Either contact him
direct, get a copy from a friend, or download a copy of the Pilot Registration
Form from the VAC web site:
vacwarbirds.org
Fill out and send ALL the info requested. One of the items that seems to
give everyone trouble is your personal
Physician, surely you know a least one Doctor. Just make sure you fill in
all the blanks.
Another big =E2=80=9Ckicker=E2=80=9D is to be sure to send a copy of your current
insurance
policy.
Also keep in mind, there will not be any sort of payment or reimbursement
for fuel, hotel room nor transportation for non-members.
Ken has got approval for non members to fly in the show for this year only.
Thanks ---- AND MOST OF ALL
WELCOME TO TICO
Ken Terry
Operations Officer
Valiant Air Command
6600 Tico Road
Titusville, Fl
32780
321 268 1941
Fax 321 268 5939
Home
2676 Slow Flight Drive
Daytona Beach, Fl
32128-6840
386 322 5378
cell 386 405 4822
email _kenterry@cfl.rr.com_ (mailto:kenterry@cfl.rr.com)
Return-Path: <kenterry@cfl.rr.com>
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From: "Ken Terry" <kenterry@cfl.rr.com>
Cc: <david@mcqirt.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: TICO
Importance: Normal
X-AOL-IP: 65.32.5.135
Yes, BUT ALL registrations MUST be sent to me and no one else.
Any other way will, in all likely hood, STOP the opportunity to do this,
FOREVER, so PLEASE guys, do it this way.
Either contact me direct, get a copy from a friend, or download a copy
of the Pilot Registration Form from the VAC web site:
vacwarbirds.org
Fill out and send ALL the info requested. One of the items that seems to
give everyone trouble is your personal
Physician, surely you know a least one Doctor.
Just make sure you fill in all the blanks.
Another big "kicker" is to be sure to send a copy of your current
insurance policy.
If you guys will help me, maybe, just maybe we can start getting a lot
better cooperation, just remember I DO NOT HAVE the final authority,
I have to keep a board of directors happy and that is not an easy task!
Also keep in mind, any question of any sort of payment for non-members
will also result in problems AND A BIG NO!
I have approval for this year only, so if you help me make it painless,
it will make it a lot easier next year.
Thanks ---- AND MOST OF ALL
WELCOME TO TICO
We will make things better!
Ken Terry
Operations Officer
Valiant Air Command
6600 Tico Road
Titusville, Fl
32780
321 268 1941
Fax 321 268 5939
Home
2676 Slow Flight Drive
Daytona Beach, Fl
32128-6840
386 322 5378
cell 386 405 4822
email kenterry@cfl.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:56 PM
Cc: david@mcqirt.net
Subject: Fwd: Yak-List: TICO
Pappy or Ray,
Was there resolution to having to be a VAC member to fly?
Ken, some of my folks would like to know diffidently if they can flyin
the show without being a member. I assume that they would not receive a
fuel reimbursement.
Jim Goolsby
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<font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial id=3D"role_document"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes,
BUT <st1:PersonName><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>ALL</st1:PersonName><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
registrations MUST be sent to me and no one else.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Any other way will,
in all likely hood, STOP the opportunity to do this,=20FOREVER, so PLEASE
guys, do it this way.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Either contact<span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> me direct, get a=20copy
from a friend, or download a copy of the
Pilot Registration Form from the VAC web site:
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>vacwarbirds.org
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Fill out and send
<st1:PersonName><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>ALL</st1:PersonName><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
the
info requested. One of the items that seems to give everyone trouble is your
personal
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Physician, surely
you know a least one
Doctor.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just make sure you
fill=20in all the blanks.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Another big kicker
is to be
sure to send a copy of your current insurance
policy.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If you guys will
help me, maybe, just
maybe we can start getting a lot better cooperation, just remember I DO NOT
HAVE the final authority,
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have to keep a
board of directors happy
and that is not an easy task!
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also keep in mind,
any question of any sort of payment for non-members will also result in
problems AND A BIG NO!
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have approval
for this year only, so if
you help me make it painless, it will make it a lot easier next year.
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks ---- AND
MOST OF <st1:PersonName><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>ALL</st1:PersonName><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>WELCOME TO TICO
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We will make things
better!
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ken Terry
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Operations Officer
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Valiant Air Command
<st1:Street><st1:address><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>6600
Tico Road</st1:address></st1:Street><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>
<st1:City><st1:place><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Titusville</st1:place></st1:City><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>, Fl
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>32780
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>321 268 1941
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Fax 321 268 5939
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Home
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>2676 Slow <st1:Street><st1:address><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Flight
Drive</st1:address></st1:Street><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>
<st1:City><st1:place><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Daytona
Beach</st1:place></st1:City><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>, Fl
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>32128-6840
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>386 322 5378
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>cell<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> 386 405 4822
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>email<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> kenterry@cfl.rr.com
<span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
[mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 16,=202006
9:56 PM
Cc: david@mcqirt.net
Subject: Fwd: Yak-List: TICO
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:white;font-weight:bold'>Pappy
or
Ray,
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:white;font-weight:bold'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:white;font-weight:bold'>
Was there resolution to having to be a VAC member to fly?
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:white;font-weight:bold'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><em><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:#80FF00;
font-weight:bold'>Ken, some of my folks would like
to know diffidently if they
can flyin the show without being a member. I assume that they would not
receive a fuel reimbursement. </em><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20color:navy;background:#80FF00;font-weight:bold'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><em><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;background:#80FF00;
font-weight:bold'>Jim Goolsby</em><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;background:#80FF00;font-weight:bold'>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Cliff Umscheid wrote:
> REAL Pilots don't wear Bras and "undies"! What the hell is this world
> coming to? I've never had a Split Tail in the cockpit except to scratch
> my jiblets--gently, of course.
Ah, remember the Lumberjack song from Monty Python? He he.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 26
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Gentlemen:
Am so pleased the Ken put himself on the line for us this year for
non-members to fly in the VAC Air Show.
I live in Spruce Creek, which is about 40 miles north of Titusville. I plan
to fly back and forth each day, only about a 30 minute trip.
Have several available beds for any Red Star pilots that would like to share
my home. Fuel here is very reasonable, and we have room to park your planes.
Contact me off line if you would like to stay here.
Ray Gage
_familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com)
386.304.6808
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Ernie, my name is FRANK HAERTLEIN and I'm calling you a piece of shit in
front of God and everybody!
My apologies to the list participants in general, but it is hard for me to
comprehend how some can be so negative toward the furtherance of aviation!
Frank
Message 28
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Brian
With all due respect you should not debate Ernie.....
There's an old saying that says "Do not argue with a fool as people may not
be able to tell the difference".
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