---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/19/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:29 AM - Re: Degradattion (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_N._Iversen?=) 2. 04:30 AM - Thank You Ernie (MICHAEL ROEHR) 3. 07:39 AM - Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Craig Craft) 4. 08:07 AM - Re: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. (Valkyre1) 5. 08:30 AM - Re: Degradattion (Valkyre1) 6. 09:12 AM - Yak List Culture (ByronMFox@aol.com) 7. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (cgalley) 8. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Roger Kemp) 9. 09:47 AM - Re: Yak List Culture (Roger Kemp) 10. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (A. Dennis Savarese) 11. 10:28 AM - Re: Yak List Culture (Stephen Fox) 12. 10:42 AM - Re: Degradattion (John W. Hilterman Jr.) 13. 11:58 AM - Re: Degradattion (Walter Lannon) 14. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (cgalley) 15. 12:03 PM - Re: Degradattion (Daniel Fortin) 16. 01:59 PM - Re: Degradattion (Brian Lloyd) 17. 02:26 PM - apology (Brian Lloyd) 18. 04:22 PM - Great Fun on the 'list (Craig Payne) 19. 04:33 PM - Alex Solo's this weekend (David McGirt) 20. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (John W. Cox) 21. 05:35 PM - Re: Alex Solo's this weekend (Ernest Martinez) 22. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (doug sapp) 23. 06:58 PM - Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) (Cliff Umscheid) 24. 07:10 PM - 2006 TICO for SE RPA members (cjpilot710@aol.com) 25. 07:16 PM - Re: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) (Brian Lloyd) 26. 08:05 PM - VAC Show (FamilyGage@aol.com) 27. 08:31 PM - Ernie (Frank Haertlein) 28. 08:34 PM - Re: Degradattion (Frank Haertlein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:43 AM PST US From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_N._Iversen?=" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_N._Iversen?=" Totally agree with you, I joined last week to maybe have some inputs. The first day I was bombed with 300 mails! Daily I receive 50-80 mails. Thats no fun and no use.... Hvard N. Iversen Televeien 14A 2020 skedsmokorset mobil: +47 928 93 546 www.yaknorway.com e-mail: haavard-iversen@c2i.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Martinez" Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:45 AM Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" > > This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info > about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people > who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought > it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has > become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy > of any attention at all. > > I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list > to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a > few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an > argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a > source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes. > Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist > on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us. > > Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While > you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You > dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else. > > If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our > airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more > of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm > sick of this shit! > > Ernie > > > -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 355 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:22 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL ROEHR" Subject: Yak-List: Thank You Ernie Ernie, I agree with you. For three years of Yak ownership, I've looked forward to good information from the group; the forum has been quite valuable to me. Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the possibility of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed people on the list who are also true gentlemen. It would be nice to be able to profit from their expertise. Ernie, thanks for being willing to say it. Mike Roehr beach@digitalexp.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:24 AM PST US From: "Craig Craft" Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:47 AM PST US From: "Valkyre1" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Loobying to change airshow compensation rules. I am also in support of Doug on this issue and emailing him off list. - Valkyrie ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:47 AM PST US From: "Valkyre1" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Degradattion Having a bad day Ernie? I'm sorry. Does anyone else see the irony in this? laughed myself silly. - Val ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:35 AM PST US From: ByronMFox@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: Yak List Culture In a message dated 2/19/2006 4:31:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, beach@digitalexp.com writes: Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the possibility of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed people on the list who are also true gentlemen For reasons unknown, we seem to have an odd culture on the Yak list. When I owned my Lancair, I read the Lancair list religiously. It was brimming with useful information and advice from knowledable builders and owners. As a non-builder, I couldn't have done without it. Here, we get caught up in opinion only occasionally dealing with our aircraft. Trigger words like Marvins Mystery Oil, flights suits, helmets and the FAA routinely set off a flurry invective. The same seemingly endless musings have gone on for the four years I've had my CJ. So, if I've got an airplane problem I call Doug Sapp, Jim Selby or Bill Blackwell, men with a wonderful willingness to share their experience. I know that Dennis Savarese, George Coy and Vladimir Yastremski do the same for Y52 owners. The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish pub. Lots of good natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally turns ugly. ...Blitz ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:10 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:09 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If I own the warbird, am paying for the maintance, the fuel/oil and myself to fly to the show, I'll fight it. Also I have not contacted the airshow coordinators to request compensation, room and board or any form of compensation other than for my bird to sit in the static display area,I'll fight it. First by wasting my time with the FSDO and then it sounds like time for a congressional complaint if they do not reverse their decision. Either way, they are wasting mine and everyone else's time. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley Sent: 2/19/2006 11:29:34 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:30 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak List Culture Blitz, Somewhat like banter in the squadron bar after the beer light is lite. Alot of banter mixed in with aircraft information. More social with some technical on the side. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 2/19/2006 11:17:57 AM Subject: Yak-List: Yak List Culture In a message dated 2/19/2006 4:31:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, beach@digitalexp.com writes: Now it hardly seems worth picking through 30 to 50 messages for the possibility of one useful tidbit of information. We have some very well-informed people on the list who are also true gentlemen For reasons unknown, we seem to have an odd culture on the Yak list. When I owned my Lancair, I read the Lancair list religiously. It was brimming with useful information and advice from knowledable builders and owners. As a non-builder, I couldn't have done without it. Here, we get caught up in opinion only occasionally dealing with our aircraft. Trigger words like Marvins Mystery Oil, flights suits, helmets and the FAA routinely set off a flurry invective. The same seemingly endless musings have gone on for the four years I've had my CJ. So, if I've got an airplane problem I call Doug Sapp, Jim Selby or Bill Blackwell, men with a wonderful willingness to share their experience. I know that Dennis Savarese, George Coy and Vladimir Yastremski do the same for Y52 owners. The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish pub. Lots of good natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally turns ugly. ...Blitz ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:59 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. Unbelievable! Don't misinterpret please. That's carrying it way too far. But, as long as they have the power and know it, they will continue to usurp it until someone of an even higher authority puts a stop to it. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:13 AM PST US From: Stephen Fox Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak List Culture On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:10 PM, ByronMFox@aol.com wrote: > The Yak List often, but thankfully not always, is like an Irish > pub. Lots of good natured, meaningless chatter that occassionally > turns ugly. ...Blitz And just like an Irish Pub every so often you walk through the door and see a few people in the crowd, who from experience, you know are going to drive you nuts. So you head home - you didn't need that pint anyway. POTUS ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:43 AM PST US From: "John W. Hilterman Jr." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Hilterman Jr." Excellent post Ernie, agree with you 100%. Hitman -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:45 PM Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy of any attention at all. I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes. Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us. Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else. If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm sick of this shit! Ernie ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:40 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" Ernie; I also agree with you though not exactly 100 %. (Probably about 98.5%). I think the majority of your comments are right on the money and I congratulate you on having the balls to tell it like it is. With regard to your comments on Brian I have to disagree. He does have a CJ6 and I find Brian's technical knowledge a great contribution to the list. I do wish however that he would learn to "stuff a sock in it" when politics rear their ugly head. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Martinez" Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" > > This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info > about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people > who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought > it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has > become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy > of any attention at all. > > I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list > to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a > few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an > argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a > source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes. > Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist > on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us. > > Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While > you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You > dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else. > > If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our > airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more > of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm > sick of this shit! > > Ernie > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:40 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. BUT that has been the past history. ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. Unbelievable! Don't misinterpret please. That's carrying it way too far. But, as long as they have the power and know it, they will continue to usurp it until someone of an even higher authority puts a stop to it. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:24 PM PST US From: "Daniel Fortin" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" Ernie, I agree. I must admit that when I joined the list, I would read 80% of the posts. Now, I delete 99% of them based on subjects and authors. Frankly, it has come to a point where I find little use for it anymore. Dan >From: "John W. Hilterman Jr." >To: >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Degradattion >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:41:44 -0600 > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Hilterman Jr." > > >Excellent post Ernie, agree with you 100%. > >Hitman > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:45 PM >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Yak-List: Degradattion > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" > >This list started (way before me) as a great way to exchange info >about like kind airplanes. It has degradted into a forum for people >who like to hear them self type. I for one have had enough. I thought >it would be enough to just filter by sunbject and author, but it has >become apparent that this list lacks any substance whatsoever worthy >of any attention at all. > >I feel sorry for the new CJ/Yak owners out there who joined this list >to LEARN about their aircraft only to be bombasted by the tirades of a >few selfish indiividuals who are more concerned about winning an >argument over the overall charter of this list which is to provide a >source of information to owners of Yaks and CJ type airplanes. >Megabytes of disk space have been wasted by the selfish few who insist >on planting their view of the world upon the rest of us. > >Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. While >you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You >dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else. > >If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our >airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more >of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm >sick of this shit! > >Ernie > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:40 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Ernest Martinez wrote: > Brian, I suggest you resign from RPA, Its obviously not for you. Perhaps you are right. But I am paid up for the year so what the heck. > While > you;re at it get off this list, you're pretty much ruined for me. You > dont even own a Red star airplane, go somewhere else. Uh, I own a CJ6A. I am contemplating the purchase of a Yak-52. I thought they were Red Star airplanes. But perhaps not. I also started this list. I like it here. > If anyone agrees that this should be an upbeat forum about our > airplanes, I want to see a show of hands,......If you want to see more > of this worthless banter then let us know. As far as I'm concerned I'm > sick of this shit! So am I Ernie. When all I want to do is fly and share with others of like mind, along comes someone or something that says, "you can't do that." Annoying as hell that is. It is usually the FAA but occasionally it comes from another angle, like the RPA. I get a fair bit of "I agree with you" email from other RPA members so my point of view is not universally disagreed with. But there are a lot of people happy with, "that's the way we did it in the military so that is the way we are going to make people do it here," too. It is a difference of opinion. I just happen to be pretty vociferous about voicing my opinion. But you are free to talk about what you want to talk about here. Go for it. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:53 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: apology --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd You know something Ernie? You are right. I *was* doing exactly what I was complaining about. I was trying to push my view that people should be allowed to do what they want to do in their airplanes so long as it is legal. (The legality thing is another point but I am not going to get into it here.) The RPA should be what its participants want it to be. If they want to require nomex flight suits and prevent some people from participating, that is their prerogative. I am a participant and I have paid my dues. I was expressing my opinion but that is as far as it goes. I was hoping I could convince the RPA not to be exclusionary but that seems not to be the case. As politically-non-correct as it is, I think groups *should* be able to exclude people they don't want, whether they be blacks, women, jews, people without flight suits, or guys who talk too much. As for this list, it is the only completely open Yak and CJ forum out there. The overlap is such that it is easy to get off on the RPA here when this is not the RPA forum. My bad. I should have been doing this on the RPA chat forum, not here. I'll shut up now about flight suits. As doc says, the horse is well and truly dead. And I *really* am apologizing for getting carried away. I'm sorry. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:34 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: Great Fun on the 'list Geez, Leave for an airshow over the weekend and I miss all the fun on the 'list. Great 80 degree weather in Miami, good friends, good flying. Put the flight suit and gloves on, fly the show, take off the suit and gloves. Real oppressive, eh? Guess what, I'd rather be flying. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:17 PM PST US From: "David McGirt" Subject: Yak-List: Alex Solo's this weekend As some of you know, Alex "Gabby" Land turned 16 this weekend.. and , yes, that means time for a solo! And like everyone else out there, he solo'd a trainer.. Seriously, Here is a picture of his solo in the Archer today: http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-01.JPG and http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-02.JPG But, of course , this is Gabby, What to do next? so the next plane for today was the Queen Air.. http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-03.JPG http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-04.JPG And I forgot, he solo'd the Extra 300 and Skybolt, and the CJ-6 yesterday.. Happy Birthday , and Congratulations Alex!! David McGirt ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. From: "John W. Cox" There was a precedent setting case adjudicated by the FAA legal division in DC about 12 years ago that clarified and set this in motion. There was a Private pilot operating a Cessna tow plane for his flying club (back in Nebraska, I recall). He would fly without compensation, (sandwich or gas) for the chance to provide assistance of other members of his glider club seeking a tow to altitude. The final interpretation was that those hours acquired by such action could not be used as logged "Aeronautical Experience in the seeking of an additional rating... hence Commercial". Conclusion - he would have had to expend monies to rent a plane and acquire such additional experience. His reduction in expenditure =3D more money in his pocket at the end, by not buying the hours, so he was indirectly compensated and should not have used the logged entries in pursuit of the next rating. He filed a lawsuit and the outcome generated an IRS tax ruling and an FAA policy change at the time that it was indeed a form of tangible compensation. His attorney failed to prevail. The side note was that he still got the Commercial many years later after paying to get the needed hours. A properly informed administrator and his/her agents can indeed redirect, reinterpret or change such a legal department conclusion. Marion Blakely had done a lot for GA but It has not happened since to my knowledge. It had a big impact on some segments of GA activities. Somewhere in my files I have the case law. John Cox - former FAA DPE and now five years removed. ________________________________ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cgalley Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:49 PM PST US From: "Ernest Martinez" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alex Solo's this weekend --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" Happy Birthday Gabby, and congrats!!!! Ernie On 2/19/06, David McGirt wrote: > > > As some of you know, Alex "Gabby" Land turned 16 this weekend.. and , yes, > that means time for a solo! > > > And like everyone else out there, he solo'd a trainer.. > > > Seriously, Here is a picture of his solo in the Archer today: > > http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-01.JPG > > > and > > > http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-02.JPG > > > But, of course , this is Gabby, What to do next? so the next plane for > today was the Queen Air.. > > > http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-03.JPG > > > http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/jland/Alex_Solo-04.JPG > > > And I forgot, he solo'd the Extra 300 and Skybolt, and the CJ-6 yesterday.. > > > Happy Birthday , and Congratulations Alex!! > > > David McGirt > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:25 PM PST US From: "doug sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. John, When you have time could you contact me off list please. rvfltd@televar.com Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:24 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. There was a precedent setting case adjudicated by the FAA legal division in DC about 12 years ago that clarified and set this in motion. There was a Private pilot operating a Cessna tow plane for his flying club (back in Nebraska, I recall). He would fly without compensation, (sandwich or gas) for the chance to provide assistance of other members of his glider club seeking a tow to altitude. The final interpretation was that those hours acquired by such action could not be used as logged "Aeronautical Experience in the seeking of an additional rating. hence Commercial". Conclusion - he would have had to expend monies to rent a plane and acquire such additional experience. His reduction in expenditure = more money in his pocket at the end, by not buying the hours, so he was indirectly compensated and should not have used the logged entries in pursuit of the next rating. He filed a lawsuit and the outcome generated an IRS tax ruling and an FAA policy change at the time that it was indeed a form of tangible compensation. His attorney failed to prevail. The side note was that he still got the Commercial many years later after paying to get the needed hours. A properly informed administrator and his/her agents can indeed redirect, reinterpret or change such a legal department conclusion. Marion Blakely had done a lot for GA but It has not happened since to my knowledge. It had a big impact on some segments of GA activities. Somewhere in my files I have the case law. John Cox - former FAA DPE and now five years removed. -- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cgalley Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:24 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. If you think that is bad, what do you think of getting busted for flying a warbird to an airshow without a 2nd class license? Feds take was if you didn't own the plane and was flying it to the show, you need a 2nd class... Why? You got air time as compensation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Craft To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"? How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches, two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs? ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:49 PM PST US Cc: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) From: Cliff Umscheid REAL Pilots don't wear Bras and "undies"! What the hell is this world coming to? I've never had a Split Tail in the cockpit except to scratch my jiblets--gently, of course. TRISTAR On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:16:57 -0600 "Roger Kemp" writes: > [Original Message] > From: Brian Lloyd > > Yeah, I agree. I always found a wool bra to be just way to scratchy too. > > Still, wool is something to consider when flying in the winter. Brian! A wool BRA for you to fly in during winter! Way to much INFORMATION for my niave Ol' MIND! TMI...just WAY T FRECKING MI! Viperdoc ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:49 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: 2006 TICO for SE RPA members Will non VAC members be able to fly at TICO this year? (TIX Titusville, Fla. March 9-10-11-12 ,2006) Yes, BUT ALL registrations MUST be sent to Ken Terry. Either contact him direct, get a copy from a friend, or download a copy of the Pilot Registration Form from the VAC web site: vacwarbirds.org Fill out and send ALL the info requested. One of the items that seems to give everyone trouble is your personal Physician, surely you know a least one Doctor. Just make sure you fill in all the blanks. Another big =E2=80=9Ckicker=E2=80=9D is to be sure to send a copy of your current insurance policy. Also keep in mind, there will not be any sort of payment or reimbursement for fuel, hotel room nor transportation for non-members. Ken has got approval for non members to fly in the show for this year only. Thanks ---- AND MOST OF ALL WELCOME TO TICO Ken Terry Operations Officer Valiant Air Command 6600 Tico Road Titusville, Fl 32780 321 268 1941 Fax 321 268 5939 Home 2676 Slow Flight Drive Daytona Beach, Fl 32128-6840 386 322 5378 cell 386 405 4822 email _kenterry@cfl.rr.com_ (mailto:kenterry@cfl.rr.com) Return-Path: Received: from rly-xl04.mx.aol.com (rly-xl04.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.53]) by air-xl03.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINXL33-5d143f7430a13; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:54:04 -0500 Received: from ms-smtp-05.tampabay.rr.com (ms-smtp-05-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com [65.32.5.135]) by rly-xl04.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXL49-5d143f7430a13; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:53:46 -0500 Received: from ken (30.156.204.68.cfl.res.rr.com [68.204.156.30]) by ms-smtp-05.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1IFrade001980; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Ken Terry" Cc: Subject: RE: Yak-List: TICO Importance: Normal X-AOL-IP: 65.32.5.135 Yes, BUT ALL registrations MUST be sent to me and no one else. Any other way will, in all likely hood, STOP the opportunity to do this, FOREVER, so PLEASE guys, do it this way. Either contact me direct, get a copy from a friend, or download a copy of the Pilot Registration Form from the VAC web site: vacwarbirds.org Fill out and send ALL the info requested. One of the items that seems to give everyone trouble is your personal Physician, surely you know a least one Doctor. Just make sure you fill in all the blanks. Another big "kicker" is to be sure to send a copy of your current insurance policy. If you guys will help me, maybe, just maybe we can start getting a lot better cooperation, just remember I DO NOT HAVE the final authority, I have to keep a board of directors happy and that is not an easy task! Also keep in mind, any question of any sort of payment for non-members will also result in problems AND A BIG NO! I have approval for this year only, so if you help me make it painless, it will make it a lot easier next year. Thanks ---- AND MOST OF ALL WELCOME TO TICO We will make things better! Ken Terry Operations Officer Valiant Air Command 6600 Tico Road Titusville, Fl 32780 321 268 1941 Fax 321 268 5939 Home 2676 Slow Flight Drive Daytona Beach, Fl 32128-6840 386 322 5378 cell 386 405 4822 email kenterry@cfl.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:56 PM Cc: david@mcqirt.net Subject: Fwd: Yak-List: TICO Pappy or Ray, Was there resolution to having to be a VAC member to fly? Ken, some of my folks would like to know diffidently if they can flyin the show without being a member. I assume that they would not receive a fuel reimbursement. Jim Goolsby Yes, BUT ALL registrations MUST be sent to me and no one else. Any other way will, in all likely hood, STOP the opportunity to do this,=20FOREVER, so PLEASE guys, do it this way. Either contact me direct, get a=20copy from a friend, or download a copy of the Pilot Registration Form from the VAC web site: vacwarbirds.org Fill out and send ALL the info requested. One of the items that seems to give everyone trouble is your personal Physician, surely you know a least one Doctor. Just make sure you fill=20in all the blanks. Another big kicker is to be sure to send a copy of your current insurance policy. If you guys will help me, maybe, just maybe we can start getting a lot better cooperation, just remember I DO NOT HAVE the final authority, I have to keep a board of directors happy and that is not an easy task! Also keep in mind, any question of any sort of payment for non-members will also result in problems AND A BIG NO! I have approval for this year only, so if you help me make it painless, it will make it a lot easier next year. Thanks ---- AND MOST OF ALL WELCOME TO TICO We will make things better! Ken Terry Operations Officer Valiant Air Command 6600 Tico Road Titusville, Fl 32780 321 268 1941 Fax 321 268 5939 Home 2676 Slow Flight Drive Daytona Beach, Fl 32128-6840 386 322 5378 cell 386 405 4822 email kenterry@cfl.rr.com

-----Original Message----- From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 16,=202006 9:56 PM Cc: david@mcqirt.net Subject: Fwd: Yak-List: TICO

Pappy or Ray,

Was there resolution to having to be a VAC member to fly?

Ken, some of my folks would like to know diffidently if they can flyin the show without being a member. I assume that they would not receive a fuel reimbursement.

Jim Goolsby ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:31 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: fire retardency, cotton, wool (was: Flight suits, again.....) --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Cliff Umscheid wrote: > REAL Pilots don't wear Bras and "undies"! What the hell is this world > coming to? I've never had a Split Tail in the cockpit except to scratch > my jiblets--gently, of course. Ah, remember the Lumberjack song from Monty Python? He he. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:09 PM PST US From: FamilyGage@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: VAC Show Gentlemen: Am so pleased the Ken put himself on the line for us this year for non-members to fly in the VAC Air Show. I live in Spruce Creek, which is about 40 miles north of Titusville. I plan to fly back and forth each day, only about a 30 minute trip. Have several available beds for any Red Star pilots that would like to share my home. Fuel here is very reasonable, and we have room to park your planes. Contact me off line if you would like to stay here. Ray Gage _familygage@aol.com_ (mailto:familygage@aol.com) 386.304.6808 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:52 PM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: Ernie --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" Ernie, my name is FRANK HAERTLEIN and I'm calling you a piece of shit in front of God and everybody! My apologies to the list participants in general, but it is hard for me to comprehend how some can be so negative toward the furtherance of aviation! Frank ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:05 PM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Degradattion --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" Brian With all due respect you should not debate Ernie..... There's an old saying that says "Do not argue with a fool as people may not be able to tell the difference".