Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Mark Jefferies-YAK UK)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: More nose art (Michael Bolton)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: More nose art (Fraser, Gus)
4. 07:00 AM - Yak-52 Bad Habits (Richard Goode)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Scooter)
6. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Brian Lloyd)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Fraser, Gus)
8. 09:36 AM - Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Jorgen Nielsen)
9. 10:00 AM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Scooter)
10. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Fraser, Gus)
11. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Fraser, Gus)
12. 10:21 AM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Scooter)
13. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Fraser, Gus)
14. 10:54 AM - Spinning Paper (Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?) (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 10:54 AM - Re: Deep breaths everybody.... (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Stephen Fox)
17. 11:32 AM - Re: Distraction of the Week (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
18. 11:47 AM - Re: Starting the -52 in cold weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
19. 11:51 AM - Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
20. 12:13 PM - Re: Starting the -52 in cold weather (Fraser, Gus)
21. 12:19 PM - [Interesting Duhh moment] Russian veterans day. (Fraser, Gus)
22. 12:24 PM - Re: Starting the -52 in cold weather (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
23. 12:27 PM - Re: Starting the -52 in cold weather (Stephen Fox)
24. 12:36 PM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (barry)
25. 12:41 PM - Re: [Interesting Duhh moment] Russian veterans day. (Robert Starnes)
26. 01:08 PM - [Barry post] Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Fraser, Gus)
27. 02:01 PM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Scooter)
28. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Roger Kemp)
29. 04:05 PM - Technical Thoughts; No Flight Suits Required (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
30. 04:37 PM - Re: Emailing: Vals Valkyrie Logo rights reserved (Valkyre1)
31. 04:41 PM - Re: Val's Valkyrie Vonder Voman (Valkyre1)
32. 04:46 PM - Re: Emailing: Vals Valkyrie Logo rights reserved (Valkyre1)
33. 04:56 PM - Re: More nose art (Valkyre1)
34. 05:01 PM - Re: Emailing: Val's Chang logo, rights reservedEmailing: Val's Chang logo, rights reserved (Valkyre1)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Well, nico timv told me to watch for the snap on a shallow down line where
the stick has been unloaded to about 2/3rd fwd and near triple gauge. The
gravitational pull and the rotation were in balance and recover input had no
effect, rotation was fast and held fast by the gravity pull. I think he said
many turns from 3000ft and recovered at 700.
Flat spin (power full, right rudder, left aileron unloaded then cut power it
will take up to 4.5 turns to stop. Correct recover is full power and in spin
aileron.
I had one owner showing me a loop and did negative snap at top by unloading
with a push.
Another one is stall on landing but 10ft up! I've had 2 customers do that
and scrape the wing tip.
BTW, no one picked up on my question.
Who has been saved by a NOMEX SUIT/ Or knows someone etc.
We can all assume that no one crashes and burns to walk away....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry but this has nothing at all to do with flight suits. In the
interests of
safety (and keeping Scooter alive) I'd like to hear any war stories
about Yak
52's doing unexpected things. Seems like I've heard a few things in
the past.
Are we just talking about accelerated stalls? Are we talking about a
normal
spin transitioning to a flat spin? So far I haven't seen anything
unexpected.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: More nose art |
Now Thats My Kind Of Nose Art!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Weidhaas
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Yak-List: More nose art
More fun for you guys.
How about this nose art for a Red Star T-shirt?
What a flightsuit!!!!
http://www.alternativesolar.com/images/dsc00318.jpg
Mark
Yak 52 "36"
Message 3
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Might me a bit distracting on finals though but what a hood ornament...
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bolton
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: More nose art
Now Thats My Kind Of Nose Art!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Weidhaas <mailto:mark@alternativesolar.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Yak-List: More nose art
More fun for you guys.
How about this nose art for a Red Star T-shirt?
What a flightsuit!!!!
http://www.alternativesolar.com/images/dsc00318.jpg
<http://www.alternativesolar.com/images/dsc00318.jpg>
Mark
Yak 52 "36"
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<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Might me a bit distracting on finals though but what a
hood
ornament...
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Bolton
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:09 AM
To:
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: More nose
art
Now Thats My Kind Of Nose Art!!
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----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=3Dmark@alternativesolar.com
">Mark Weidhaas
To: <A title=3Dyak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:02
PM
Subject: Yak-List: More nose art
More fun for you guys.
How about this nose art for a Red Star
T-shirt?
What a flightsuit!!!!
<A
">http://www.alternativesolar.com/images/dsc00318.jpg
Mark
Yak 52
"36"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Yak-52 Bad Habits |
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
So a developed spin will/can go flat? That could be considered a bad habit i suppose.
But not getting out of it (or not having enough altitude to recover)
would be a bad piloting habit.
I suggest you guys do the following to finally put this nomex issue to rest. Build
a big fire. Half of you dress in nomex and half in corduroy (or whatever
you wear when you fly). Then take turns jumping through the fire until somebody
bursts into flames. The losers will concede to the winners.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14350#14350
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Scooter wrote:
> I suggest you guys do the following to finally put this nomex issue to rest.
Build a big fire. Half of you dress in nomex and half in corduroy (or whatever
you wear when you fly). Then take turns jumping through the fire until somebody
bursts into flames. The losers will concede to the winners.
I volunteer to manage the experiment and keep the records!
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Scooter,
Even this I would not class as a bad habit. For recovery people often give
up too soon. When the recovery takes time they try something else. Here is
my take on recovery from flat and accelerated spins in a 52.
After the nose has come up the plane is shaking and the ailerons are in, now
comes time for recovery.
***** Close throttle ******
Full forward and in spin aileron at the same time as applying full rudder.
You may think that you have applied full control but keep pushing there is
more. The stick and pedals are real strong you wont break them, and keep
them there. When the rotation stops IMMEDIATELY remove the rudder and center
the aileron otherwise you will cross over to inverted real fast, center
elevator as needed. At about 200 kph start to recover to SAL flight. Best
tip on which rudder pedal to push (inverted or right side up) look at where
the ground is disappearing to that is the pedal to push. Now this is just my
attempt to put into words a method that I was taught, it is a lot more
interesting when doing it for real.
Gennady Elfimov (www.skytrace.co.uk) said that in Russia they experimented
with the standard Muller Beggs recovery and found this method above to be at
least 500 ft more efficient in altitude loss.
Now I really must say here again that email is not the way to learn
technique the only way to do that effectively and safely is to find someone
that knows what they are doing and learn from them. I asked you before which
state are you in there are numerous people out there that would show you
technique.
As for a developed spin going flat I would disagree. Sure a spin can get
very stable and inertia becomes a factor but it will not go flat without the
engine. If you do a flat you will be shocked by just how much the nose comes
up one mans flat is another mans stable.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
So a developed spin will/can go flat? That could be considered a bad habit
i suppose. But not getting out of it (or not having enough altitude to
recover) would be a bad piloting habit.
I suggest you guys do the following to finally put this nomex issue to rest.
Build a big fire. Half of you dress in nomex and half in corduroy (or
whatever you wear when you fly). Then take turns jumping through the fire
until somebody bursts into flames. The losers will concede to the winners.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14350#14350
Message 8
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Scooter, you ask about bad habits (which implies you are new to the Yak52)
but then say you doing inverted spins which implies you are experienced with
aeros.
So a cautionary word may be in order - in case you start stepping up the
range of aerobatics you flying before getting Serge or whoever to fly with
you and provide type specific info:
Get the dual type instruction before playing with any advanced spins and
ideally even before playing with verticals (as per DOSAAF procedure)
The Yak52 takes a long time with resultant altitude loss to get out of a
flat spin. You can't punch it out. Some (2 I have flown so far) will not
recover using the recomended methods and anti-spin inputs. This from either
a flat spin to the right or an accelerated aggravated spin to left. (outspin
aileron and stick forward). On the one aerie we dropped over 3000ft after
initiating recovery with no signs of recovery. She really winds up as well
and some people find this disorienting and may have difficulty thinking
about which anti-spin inputs to use. Compounding this is the time and
number of revolutions required before "stopping" the spin, I think some
people have after putting in the correct anti-spin inputs decided they did
the wrong thing and THEN do the wrong thing. The stick and rudder forces
are also quite high and you might think you have them to the stops when you
don't, and you may not recover. Also must check rigging for correct travel
before playing with these. During recovery you also never stop rolling so
may miss the point where the spin stops (but not the rotation) and do
crossover into inverted spin.
The Yak is great and has no bad habits in terms of departure or conventional
spins. But flat and accelerated spins need some prior training, forethought
and lots of altitude.
Bottom line: Do not play with these without excellent dual first.
Jorgen
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
i was afraid i would get this kind of cautionary response. i won't mention aerobatics
again... hey, let's talk about flight suits! :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14400#14400
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Scooter,
What's the problem with you. You asked for advice and that is what you got,
If you choose to not take the advice go ahead have a ball. It sounds
cautionary because that is exactly what it is. Once or twice a year I deal
with the fact that friends are no longer around. I am not sure what your
background is but personally I don't like to see anyone end up as a big
smoking hole in the ground, and Tom Johnson certainly does not like it
because it pushes the premiums up for the rest of us.
All the advice you have been given is based on years of experience with
these aircraft and I think that the posts on this subject are, and this is
rare for this list, to the point and informative. I would not try and tell
you how to fly that is up to you. You asked and people were kind enough to
respond. If you don't like the answer don't bitch about it.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
i was afraid i would get this kind of cautionary response. i won't mention
aerobatics again... hey, let's talk about flight suits! :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14400#14400
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
As a point of reference this link shows the skytrace training program.
http://www.skytrace.co.uk/program.html
This is based on the DOSAF system.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Scooter,
Even this I would not class as a bad habit. For recovery people often give
up too soon. When the recovery takes time they try something else. Here is
my take on recovery from flat and accelerated spins in a 52.
After the nose has come up the plane is shaking and the ailerons are in, now
comes time for recovery.
***** Close throttle ******
Full forward and in spin aileron at the same time as applying full rudder.
You may think that you have applied full control but keep pushing there is
more. The stick and pedals are real strong you wont break them, and keep
them there. When the rotation stops IMMEDIATELY remove the rudder and center
the aileron otherwise you will cross over to inverted real fast, center
elevator as needed. At about 200 kph start to recover to SAL flight. Best
tip on which rudder pedal to push (inverted or right side up) look at where
the ground is disappearing to that is the pedal to push. Now this is just my
attempt to put into words a method that I was taught, it is a lot more
interesting when doing it for real.
Gennady Elfimov (www.skytrace.co.uk) said that in Russia they experimented
with the standard Muller Beggs recovery and found this method above to be at
least 500 ft more efficient in altitude loss.
Now I really must say here again that email is not the way to learn
technique the only way to do that effectively and safely is to find someone
that knows what they are doing and learn from them. I asked you before which
state are you in there are numerous people out there that would show you
technique.
As for a developed spin going flat I would disagree. Sure a spin can get
very stable and inertia becomes a factor but it will not go flat without the
engine. If you do a flat you will be shocked by just how much the nose comes
up one mans flat is another mans stable.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
So a developed spin will/can go flat? That could be considered a bad habit
i suppose. But not getting out of it (or not having enough altitude to
recover) would be a bad piloting habit.
I suggest you guys do the following to finally put this nomex issue to rest.
Build a big fire. Half of you dress in nomex and half in corduroy (or
whatever you wear when you fly). Then take turns jumping through the fire
until somebody bursts into flames. The losers will concede to the winners.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14350#14350
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
gus. i put a smiley my post. chill out. scooter doesn't fight over the internet
- only in person and properly attired.
[quote="gus.fraser(at)gs.com"]Scooter,
What's the problem with you. You asked for advice and that is what you got,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14404#14404
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Sorry missed the smiley
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
gus. i put a smiley my post. chill out. scooter doesn't fight over the
internet - only in person and properly attired.
[quote="gus.fraser(at)gs.com"]Scooter,
What's the problem with you. You asked for advice and that is what you got,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14404#14404
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
For those that have not requested a personal copy of Richard Goode's paper
on spinning the Yak 52 it is available on my web site, www.yak-52.com, on
the SPINNING page.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> gus. i put a smiley my post. chill out. scooter doesn't fight over the
> internet - only in person and properly attired.
>
>
> [quote="gus.fraser(at)gs.com"]Scooter,
> What's the problem with you. You asked for advice and that is what you
> got,
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14404#14404
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Deep breaths everybody.... |
Tim,
The flight suit issue is a volatile one for sure.
I personally think the discussion is very useful. The first time around,
very little got accomplished other than the expression of personal opinions,
and there was nothing wrong with that (IMHO).
This time around, there are indeed some hard core expressions of opinion
(again), but also movement towards actually doing something about the rule.
That is not only new, it is indeed useful.
Anytime people feel very strongly about ANYTHING, there will always be
emotion included in the discussion. Most people who own and fly airplanes
seem to me to be rather emotional about their feelings. I know I am. That
said, because something turns into a "hot topic" does not mean it should not
be discussed... to me it means just the opposite. Better to let it out in
the open rather than to have it simmer under the surface.
The reason everybody needs to take "Deep Breaths" today is because it did
not get resolved last time. It's a safe bet that if it gets shelved again
now... it is going to come up once again in the future.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Deep breaths everybody....
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Everybody, push yoursleves away from the keyboard, tilt your head back,
close your eyes and take some deep breaths....in....out....in...out.....
Let go of the flight suit issue......lets get back to something useful
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13068#13068
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Bad Habits |
Richard,
How much do the spin characteristics change, if you don't have the
Russian radio in the back?
Steve Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
On Feb 23, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Richard Goode wrote:
> The 52 is a delightful aeroplane and a superb aerobatic trainer.
>
> HOWEVER if a spin is allowed to develop and go flat, recovery can
> be prolonged, which in turn CAN lead to confusion.
>
> Anyone doing aerobatics in a 52 and who has not read our short
> paper on 52 spinning should do so. Drop us a line off list, and we
> will send you a copy.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> -------
> dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
> and is believed to be clean.
> -------
Steve "SOB" Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
Message 17
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| Subject: | Distraction of the Week |
The answer to this question differs slightly if you are flying a YAK-50
instead of a 52. Any input from the 50 folks?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Linebaugh
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:04 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Distraction of the Week
Maybe you are right Brian, but I thought we did a leak on gear extension...
Anyways, the point I was trying to make with the air leak after takeoff is
that assuming...
1) that you checked that you were "making air" before takeoff and
2) that the air valve was open (Walt....good point also!)
...then chances are that the air leak is in the gear retract system. If you
put the gear handle down, chances are that you will stop the leak and start
making air again.
If this is the case I see no need to hurry back to land and/or use the
emergency system. In fact, I would wait for the compressor to recharge the
main system, and then land...
I have now done my part...you all can now return to dissing flight suits and
the FAA....
JL
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net <mailto:jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
<http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/>
Yakless with Elvis in Memphis, TN
<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=409&lang=9>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Starting the -52 in cold weather |
I have followed that same procedure since day one Dennis, except on the 50
the primer handle is turned to the left.
That said, Sergei Boriak recently advised me of the procedure he has used
for years (and came up with by himself) and it is sorta different from
anything anyone else has posted, so I will repeat it here for review and
comment. Everyone knows Sergei well enough to know how smart he is when it
comes to these airplanes and engines.
First, prime about 4-6 good shots and then ALWAYS pull the prop through a
few times.
Get back in and prime some more (amount depending on temp).
Turn prime handle to cylinder prime side (right on 52, left on 50). Do not
pull it out at this point.
Leave throttle closed. Completely closed. Never pump the throttle.
Turn MAGS on to position one. (This is really new)
Crank engine and when it fires switch MAGS to both.
Turn primer handle back to neutral and if engine starts to falter turn it
back to prime. No pumping unless really necessary. You may have to pump
some at first, but once engine is running, use the "turn it back and forth"
method to enrich engine as necessary to keep it running, and then back off
again. Everyone should understand that merely turning the prime handle to
the cylinder prime side enriches the engine quite a bit even without
pumping.
The idea to the above is very interesting. The Starting Doubler Coil wll be
firing the cylinders through the retarded rotor leg but... the other mag
will ALSO be firing through the standard timing leg on the rotor. Thus you
will be getting two sets of firing pulses. One plug retarded one plug
normal.
I heard the above and considered it with gross prejudice (against). After
all, it was contrary to everything I have ever read, or have ever done. I
am not a rookie starting M-14's. Then I watched Sergei perform this
starting method on a 30 degree day in his Sukhoi 31. Then in a YAK-52.
It worked perfectly. Hmmm.
I tried it myself. It takes a little getting used to, but it does indeed
work. Very well as a matter of fact.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
A couple of things you might want to try Mark.
1- After you pull the prime though and you have reseated yourself in the
cockpit and after you pump the second 3 shots of prime, stroke the throttle
(MP) twice from full back to full forward to full back. Then move the
throttle to approximately 1/4 to 1/3 open.
2- Now pull the primer out and turn to the right.
3- Press and hold the start button until the engine fires and then rotate
the mag switch to the 1+2 position
4- DO NOT STROKE THE THROTTLE. Leave it alone.
5- If the engine seems like it is going to die, stroke the primer pump while
it is turned to the right.
6- Keep the cooling louvers closed of course to expedite engine warm up.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: N7092A@aol.com <mailto:N7092A@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
Ok this may have been a topic earlier but I am new to the list and a fairly
new Yak owner.
Here is the deal,
When the weather dips below 45 degrees it seems it take several times to
start the Yak.
I am priming 7 times and pulling it through and another 3 just before start.
it Kicks over, sputters and then dies, I then have to prime again (not
pulling through) about 5 times and then it finally catches and goes after
the second to nth time. Then it will cycle about 5 - 10% for the first
minute or two after starting.
In hot weather it usually kicks over in the first rotation and runs fine.
Anybody seen this?
Mark Merrill
N7092A YAK-52
KPAO
Message 19
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| Subject: | Yak-52 Bad Habits |
Not much, other than your observer on the ground won't have to speak a
foreign language anymore.
Sorry........
mgb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Fox
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Bad Habits
Richard,
How much do the spin characteristics change, if you don't have the Russian
radio in the back?
Steve Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
<http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html>
On Feb 23, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Richard Goode wrote:
The 52 is a delightful aeroplane and a superb aerobatic trainer.
HOWEVER if a spin is allowed to develop and go flat, recovery can be
prolonged, which in turn CAN lead to confusion.
Anyone doing aerobatics in a 52 and who has not read our short paper on 52
spinning should do so. Drop us a line off list, and we will send you a
copy.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
-
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com <http://www.invictawiz.com>
and is believed to be clean.
-
Steve "SOB" Fox
Yak 52
N3043R
http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html
<http://homepage.mac.com/steve.fox/PhotoAlbum5.html>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Starting the -52 in cold weather |
Totally with you on that Mark Sergei Prolagayev told me the same with the
SP. It has separate switches for each mag so without a third hand it is
tough to start without switching the mags on before starting. Works like a
charm, another thing is that it may be just me but starts seem a lot better
with the champion conversion in, of course that may have something to do
with the cruddy old leads I used to have fitted. Anyone else seen an
improvement with the Dennis champion conversion ?
On starting these engines, in NJ we have the two lock rule. An aircraft on
the ground for more than 24 hours is required to be protected by two locks.
We had a state trooper at the airport a while ago and he asked me where my
locks were. I had them of course but could not resist "I tell you what, if
you can start it you can have it." Just treat the unwillingness to start as
a security feature, chances are it will be where you left it.
BTW Dennis, great job on the conversion kit it kicks.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
I have followed that same procedure since day one Dennis, except on the 50
the primer handle is turned to the left.
That said, Sergei Boriak recently advised me of the procedure he has used
for years (and came up with by himself) and it is sorta different from
anything anyone else has posted, so I will repeat it here for review and
comment. Everyone knows Sergei well enough to know how smart he is when it
comes to these airplanes and engines.
First, prime about 4-6 good shots and then ALWAYS pull the prop through a
few times.
Get back in and prime some more (amount depending on temp).
Turn prime handle to cylinder prime side (right on 52, left on 50). Do not
pull it out at this point.
Leave throttle closed. Completely closed. Never pump the throttle.
Turn MAGS on to position one. (This is really new)
Crank engine and when it fires switch MAGS to both.
Turn primer handle back to neutral and if engine starts to falter turn it
back to prime. No pumping unless really necessary. You may have to pump
some at first, but once engine is running, use the "turn it back and forth"
method to enrich engine as necessary to keep it running, and then back off
again. Everyone should understand that merely turning the prime handle to
the cylinder prime side enriches the engine quite a bit even without
pumping.
The idea to the above is very interesting. The Starting Doubler Coil wll be
firing the cylinders through the retarded rotor leg but... the other mag
will ALSO be firing through the standard timing leg on the rotor. Thus you
will be getting two sets of firing pulses. One plug retarded one plug
normal.
I heard the above and considered it with gross prejudice (against). After
all, it was contrary to everything I have ever read, or have ever done. I
am not a rookie starting M-14's. Then I watched Sergei perform this
starting method on a 30 degree day in his Sukhoi 31. Then in a YAK-52.
It worked perfectly. Hmmm.
I tried it myself. It takes a little getting used to, but it does indeed
work. Very well as a matter of fact.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
A couple of things you might want to try Mark.
1- After you pull the prime though and you have reseated yourself in the
cockpit and after you pump the second 3 shots of prime, stroke the throttle
(MP) twice from full back to full forward to full back. Then move the
throttle to approximately 1/4 to 1/3 open.
2- Now pull the primer out and turn to the right.
3- Press and hold the start button until the engine fires and then rotate
the mag switch to the 1+2 position
4- DO NOT STROKE THE THROTTLE. Leave it alone.
5- If the engine seems like it is going to die, stroke the primer pump while
it is turned to the right.
6- Keep the cooling louvers closed of course to expedite engine warm up.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: N7092A@aol.com <mailto:N7092A@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
Ok this may have been a topic earlier but I am new to the list and a fairly
new Yak owner.
Here is the deal,
When the weather dips below 45 degrees it seems it take several times to
start the Yak.
I am priming 7 times and pulling it through and another 3 just before start.
it Kicks over, sputters and then dies, I then have to prime again (not
pulling through) about 5 times and then it finally catches and goes after
the second to nth time. Then it will cycle about 5 - 10% for the first
minute or two after starting.
In hot weather it usually kicks over in the first rotation and runs fine.
Anybody seen this?
Mark Merrill
N7092A YAK-52
KPAO
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7>
Totally with you on that
Mark Sergei Prolagayev told me the same with the SP. It has separate switches
for each mag so without a third hand it is tough to start without switching the
mags on before starting. Works like a charm, another thing is that it may be
just me but starts seem a lot better with the champion conversion in, of course
that may have something to do with the cruddy old leads I used to have fitted.
Anyone else seen an improvement with the Dennis champion conversion
?
On starting these
engines, in NJ we have the two lock rule. An aircraft on the ground for more
than 24 hours is required to be protected by two locks. We had a state trooper
at the airport a while ago and he asked me where my locks were. I had them of
course but could not resist "I tell you what, if you can start it you can have
it." Just treat the unwillingness to start as a security feature, chances are it
will be where you left it.
BTW Dennis, great job on
the conversion kit it kicks.
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich
GS11 Mark G
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:47 PM
'yak-list@matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in
cold weather
I have followed that same procedure since
day one Dennis, except on the 50 the primer handle is turned to the
left.
That said, Sergei Boriak recently advised
me of the procedure he has used for years (and came up with by himself) and it
is sorta different from anything anyone else has posted, so I will repeat it
here for review and comment. Everyone knows Sergei well enough to know
how smart he is when it comes to these airplanes and engines.
First, prime about 4-6 good shots and then
ALWAYS pull the prop through a few times.
Get back in and prime some more (amount
depending ontemp).
Turn prime handle to cylinder prime side
(right on 52, left on 50). Do not pull it out at this point.
Leave throttle closed. Completely
closed. Never pump the throttle.
Turn MAGS on to position one. (This
is really new)
Crank engine and when it fires switch MAGS
to both.
Turn primer handle back to neutral and if
engine starts to falter turn it back to prime. No pumping unless really
necessary. You may have to pump some at first, but once engine is
running, use the "turn it back and forth" method to enrich engine as necessary
to keep it running, and then back off again. Everyone should understand
that merely turning the prime handle to the cylinder prime side enriches the
engine quite a bit even without pumping.
The idea to the above is very
interesting. The Starting Doubler Coil wll be firing the cylinders
through the retarded rotor leg but... the other mag will ALSO be firing
through the standard timing leg on the rotor. Thus you will be getting
two sets of firing pulses. One plug retarded one plug normal.
I heard the above and considered it with
gross prejudice (against). After all, it was contrary to everything I
have ever read, or have ever done. I am not a rookie starting
M-14's. Then I watched Sergei perform this starting method on a 30
degree dayin his Sukhoi 31. Then in a YAK-52.
It worked perfectly.
Hmmm.
I tried it myself. It takes a little
getting used to, but it does indeed work.Very well as a matter of
fact.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
<SPAN
class=326393819-23022006>
<FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:13 AM
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in
cold weather
A couple of things you might want to try Mark.
1- After you pull the prime though and you have reseated yourself in
the cockpit and after you pump the second 3 shots of prime, stroke the
throttle (MP) twice from full back to full forward to full back. Then
move the throttle to approximately 1/4 to 1/3 open.
2- Now pull the primer out and turn to the right.
3- Press and hold the start button until the engine fires and then
rotate the mag switch to the 1+2 position
4- DO NOT STROKE THE THROTTLE. Leave it alone.
5- If the engine seems like it is going to die, stroke the primer pump
while it is turned to the right.
6- Keep the cooling louvers closed of course to expedite engine warm
up.
Dennis
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=N7092A@aol.com ">N7092A@aol.com
To: <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:37
PM
Subject: Yak-List: Starting the -52
in cold weather
<FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000>
Ok this may have been a topic earlier but I am new to the list and a
fairly new Yak owner.
Here is the deal,
When the weather dips below 45 degrees it seems it take several times
to start the Yak.
I am priming 7 times and pulling it through and another 3 just before
start.
it Kicks over, sputters and then dies, I then have to prime again
(not pulling through) about 5 times and then it finally catches and goes
after the second to nth time. Then it will cycle about 5 - 10% for
the first minute or two after starting.
In hot weather it usually kicks over in the first rotation and runs
fine.
Anybody seen this?
Mark Merrill
N7092A YAK-52
KPAO
Message 21
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| Subject: | [Interesting Duhh moment] Russian veterans day. |
An interesting veterans story picked up by the BBC
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4743144.stm>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4743144.stm . Can anyone do a good
Homer Simpson impersonation. Good to see that they got the right kind of
aircraft. I would be interested to see what the crew of the Missouri have to
say.
Heehe
Gus
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4743144.stm>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode: space; khtml-line-break: after-white-space">
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>An interesting veterans story picked up by the
BBC<A
"><FONT
face=Arial><FONT
size=2>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4743144.stm<FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=802331420-23022006> . Can anyone do a good Homer
Simpson impersonation. Good to see that they got the right kind of aircraft. I
would be interested to see what the crew of the Missouri have to
say.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Heehe
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus
<FONT
face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial
size=2><A
"><FONT
face=Arial>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Starting the -52 in cold weather |
EVERY SINGLE AIRCRAFT THAT I KNOW THAT HAS USED THE AUTOMOTIVE SPARK PLUG
AND WIRE CONVERSION KIT SOLD BY DENNIS HAS RUN BETTER AFTERWARDS.
The above is in CAPS because it amounts to the cheapest and best bang for
the buck improvement to the M-14 engine that I am aware of. No, it is not
in my own engine yet, but it WILL be. The change PAYS FOR ITSELF after one
or two spark plug changes.
Sergei has it, as well as Hubie Tolson.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fraser, Gus
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
Totally with you on that Mark Sergei Prolagayev told me the same with the
SP. It has separate switches for each mag so without a third hand it is
tough to start without switching the mags on before starting. Works like a
charm, another thing is that it may be just me but starts seem a lot better
with the champion conversion in, of course that may have something to do
with the cruddy old leads I used to have fitted. Anyone else seen an
improvement with the Dennis champion conversion ?
On starting these engines, in NJ we have the two lock rule. An aircraft on
the ground for more than 24 hours is required to be protected by two locks.
We had a state trooper at the airport a while ago and he asked me where my
locks were. I had them of course but could not resist "I tell you what, if
you can start it you can have it." Just treat the unwillingness to start as
a security feature, chances are it will be where you left it.
BTW Dennis, great job on the conversion kit it kicks.
Gus
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starting the -52 in cold weather |
Gus -
Like you, Dennis's conversion has made life better all around. Starts
easier, seems to run a bit smoother and no plug fouling on long warm
ups or having to sit forever on a taxi way waiting on traffic.
Steve
On Feb 23, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> Totally with you on that Mark Sergei Prolagayev told me the same
> with the SP. It has separate switches for each mag so without a
> third hand it is tough to start without switching the mags on
> before starting. Works like a charm, another thing is that it may
> be just me but starts seem a lot better with the champion
> conversion in, of course that may have something to do with the
> cruddy old leads I used to have fitted. Anyone else seen an
> improvement with the Dennis champion conversion ?
>
> On starting these engines, in NJ we have the two lock rule. An
> aircraft on the ground for more than 24 hours is required to be
> protected by two locks. We had a state trooper at the airport a
> while ago and he asked me where my locks were. I had them of course
> but could not resist "I tell you what, if you can start it you can
> have it." Just treat the unwillingness to start as a security
> feature, chances are it will be where you left it.
>
> BTW Dennis, great job on the conversion kit it kicks.
>
> Gus
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:47 PM
> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
>
> I have followed that same procedure since day one Dennis, except on
> the 50 the primer handle is turned to the left.
>
> That said, Sergei Boriak recently advised me of the procedure he
> has used for years (and came up with by himself) and it is sorta
> different from anything anyone else has posted, so I will repeat it
> here for review and comment. Everyone knows Sergei well enough to
> know how smart he is when it comes to these airplanes and engines.
>
> First, prime about 4-6 good shots and then ALWAYS pull the prop
> through a few times.
> Get back in and prime some more (amount depending on temp).
> Turn prime handle to cylinder prime side (right on 52, left on
> 50). Do not pull it out at this point.
> Leave throttle closed. Completely closed. Never pump the throttle.
> Turn MAGS on to position one. (This is really new)
> Crank engine and when it fires switch MAGS to both.
> Turn primer handle back to neutral and if engine starts to falter
> turn it back to prime. No pumping unless really necessary. You
> may have to pump some at first, but once engine is running, use the
> "turn it back and forth" method to enrich engine as necessary to
> keep it running, and then back off again. Everyone should
> understand that merely turning the prime handle to the cylinder
> prime side enriches the engine quite a bit even without pumping.
>
> The idea to the above is very interesting. The Starting Doubler
> Coil wll be firing the cylinders through the retarded rotor leg
> but... the other mag will ALSO be firing through the standard
> timing leg on the rotor. Thus you will be getting two sets of
> firing pulses. One plug retarded one plug normal.
>
> I heard the above and considered it with gross prejudice
> (against). After all, it was contrary to everything I have ever
> read, or have ever done. I am not a rookie starting M-14's. Then
> I watched Sergei perform this starting method on a 30 degree day in
> his Sukhoi 31. Then in a YAK-52.
>
> It worked perfectly. Hmmm.
>
> I tried it myself. It takes a little getting used to, but it does
> indeed work. Very well as a matter of fact.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-
> server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:13 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
>
> A couple of things you might want to try Mark.
> 1- After you pull the prime though and you have reseated yourself
> in the cockpit and after you pump the second 3 shots of prime,
> stroke the throttle (MP) twice from full back to full forward to
> full back. Then move the throttle to approximately 1/4 to 1/3 open.
> 2- Now pull the primer out and turn to the right.
> 3- Press and hold the start button until the engine fires and then
> rotate the mag switch to the 1+2 position
> 4- DO NOT STROKE THE THROTTLE. Leave it alone.
> 5- If the engine seems like it is going to die, stroke the primer
> pump while it is turned to the right.
> 6- Keep the cooling louvers closed of course to expedite engine
> warm up.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: N7092A@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:37 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Starting the -52 in cold weather
>
> Ok this may have been a topic earlier but I am new to the list and
> a fairly new Yak owner.
>
> Here is the deal,
>
> When the weather dips below 45 degrees it seems it take several
> times to start the Yak.
>
> I am priming 7 times and pulling it through and another 3 just
> before start.
> it Kicks over, sputters and then dies, I then have to prime again
> (not pulling through) about 5 times and then it finally catches and
> goes after the second to nth time. Then it will cycle about 5 -
> 10% for the first minute or two after starting.
>
> In hot weather it usually kicks over in the first rotation and runs
> fine.
>
> Anybody seen this?
>
> Mark Merrill
> N7092A YAK-52
> KPAO
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barry" <barry@flyredstar.org>
Gang,
The -52, just like any other high performance plane, is to be respected. A little
over two years ago I had the opportunity to spend some time in Tom Johnson's
-52 (he now has a -50) getting some advanced instruction. I posted my experience
on the Yak-list...and may be useful in this discussion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DISCLAIMER, this is for entertainment only. It is in no way intended as
instruction or and endorsement to do these maneuvers on your own.
So, your humble correspondent finally got to fly a Yak-52, and was left
scratching his head as to what all the fuss is about....
"That thing is deadly in a spin"
"Lots of good pilots have died in that airplane"
and my personal favorite,
"It will kill you if you're not paying attention"
These are all things I've heard or read when it came to the Yak-52. For
two years now, my interest has been piqued by all this talk and
suggestion that the Yak-52 is a handful of airplane. This seems a harsh
contradiction to it's purpose...a primary aerobatic/military trainer.
About 3 weeks ago, Roger Baker included me in an email that gave the
times and dates of upcoming aerobatic training from some Russian dude
imported for a couple of weeks. I figured to fly with him would be an
awesome opportunity to see this Blood Thirsty Russian Beast put through
it's paces, and stand a chance of not letting it kill me. So, I called
Roger - whom I met at All Red Star last year and have trying to get
together ever since - and wondered out loud if there was anyone in the
area that would let me fly their -52. Roger graciously offered to give
me a front seat checkout in one of his Yak Flying Club airplanes based
out of Palomar, but a member needed to be in the airplane at all times
for insurance reasons (we'll get to that irony in a second). I figured
flying acro sitting in somebody's lap wasn't an option, so I asked if
anyone else was coming that might put me on their insurance for the
weekend. I found the PERFECT guy! Of all people, Tom Johnson of Cannon
Aviation Insurance was coming down! Well, Tom and I have become
friends over the past couple of years and I figured since I didn't have
a claim on record, he just might let me fly his Yellow Yak. :) Sure
'nough, Tom was as gracious as Roger....I was in!
So after a front seat checkout with Roger last Saturday. I drove the 80
miles to Ramona on Tuesday morning to fly the Yellow Yak with the
Russian dude. Turns out this dude is more than just a dude. He's Yuri
Yeltsov, head of the DOSAAF in Kazakhstan, with about, oh, a bazillion
hours of acro instructing in the -52. Vladimir Yastremski is a long
time friend of Yuri's and he and Roger arranged for his visit.
The one potential pitfall in all of this is the language barrier...but I
soon appreciated that there are two international languages, the other
one is aviation! During the preflight's and debrief's Vladimir stood by
the ready for any necessary interpretation, which was seldom needed
unless it was a technical question or discussion of the fine points.
Though his english was limited, phrases like "more push," "easy push,"
"left pedal," "right stick" and "Nyet, you idiot!" were very effective.
OK, he never called me an idiot...to my knowledge, anyway. :) Quite to
the contrary, he was always courteous and his reserved demeanor inspired
confidence in even a neophyte Yak driver (0 hours PIC, until last
Saturday) like me.
OK, Barry, enough window dressing... Right. I flew three times with
Yuri. The first hop consisted of the basic aerobatic maneuvers: rolls,
slow rolls, loop, Immelmans, Hammerheads. As Yuri would say, "No
problem? No problem." Occasionally, he would ask me "you normal?"....I
refrained from telling him about my latest psychotherapy session, and
instead just nodded. After awhile, my body started concurring with my
therapist's analysis of my mental state and we headed for home. On the
ground I learned why I was dishing out the last part of my slow rolls
(not enough nose high when inverted), and that I was very aggressive
with the stick...it brought a smile to Yuri's eyes when he told me
that. I guess there's hope for me yet.
With 18 hours to shake the aerobatic fuzz out of my skull that had not
seen more than 2 G's in the last six months, I was back on Wednesday for
a double dose. The first session was snap rolls, point rolls, spins,
and flat upright spins. All went well, except my aerobatic tolerance
was deteriorating after about 15 mintues and it was a real fight, but I
kept going. Anyway, after my head hitting the canopy about 4 times, I
finally got the hang of the snap roll. Point rolls were rewarding, and
then the moment that I had been waiting for arrived. Spins.
The first spins we did were just the garden variety, power off, upright
spins. No issues there. I did notice, interestingly enough, that the
Yak-52 spin recovery is not as quick as the CJ's. After 3 or 4
evolutions, though, I had compensated and we went to the flat, upright
spin. "First one, I do," came over the intercom. "First, normal entry,
zen stick left full, and power full." As we began to accelerate and the
world went whizzing past like a teacup ride with 3 body builders, I was
reminded of that oh so intellectual line from the movie Fast Times at
Ridgemont high when Spicolli says, "Ah-ah-ah-suh-uh-mmm!" Next thing I
know we had done 5 revolutions and recovered by 6 1/2. "Again, dis time
from Hammerhead," Yuri said. "I do, you follow"...uh, OK, "no problem?
No problem." So away we went again, with Yuri counting rotations and me
just sitting there with this big stuff eatin' grin on my face. This is
FUN!!!! My still unaccustomed to acro head was feeling a little
topsy-turvy, so we headed for the barn.
I was a little worried I wouldn't make it past the first round of this
final bout with the -52 as my brain was still sloshing about in my head
a bit. Hopefully the Cannon Aviation Insurance sponsored Excedrin would
do the trick. This time, it was loops with aileron rolls at the top,
Avalanches (loop with a snap at the top), upset recovery training "I go
in, you get out"...he was talking about the maneuver, not the
airplane...I don't think, vertical rolls, and more spins "dis time, you
do, I watch." Well, if I'm not carrying the left over bag buy then,
sure. As it turns out I got stronger as this flight went on...I guess
my brain was finally catching up with my eyes. Anyway, the two areas I
want to mention here are the upset recovery - 60 degrees of bank, and
exceed critical AoA. As we departed the plane would head towards
inverted. "Now you go!", said Yuri from the back, and I aggressively
stomped on top rudder and pushed the stick opposite the roll. The next
thing I knew we were straight and level. We did this from various
attitudes and in the end the result was the same....very predictable and
quick recovery.
Now it was finally time for "you do, I watch." So as we climbed up to
5000 AGL, Yuri went through the flat, upright spin procedure with me.
"Normal spin begin right, zen stick left full, and power full.
Recover...power off, off, stick forward right, left pedal full, wait for
stop spin, zen recover." Sure, Yuri, no problem, just like you did it,
right?
OK, crap, here we go.......normal right spin entry, stick full
left, power full, and....yeeeehaaaw! By this point I hear Yuri
"...sree, forh, five!" Uh, stick right forw...grrrrr, get over
there!..forward, anti-spin rudder (left), and "Power! Power off!" oh,
yeah, that helps! A little sloppy on my part, but Yuri stayed off the
controls and we recovered in reasonable fashion. "Again?!", I ask.
"OK," Mr. DOSAAF says, chuckling under his breath. Back up to 6000 MSL
again, and....wheeeeee! This time I'm actually keeping up with the spin
count, remember to get the power out, and she just happily recovers.
One more for posterity...Yuri must have been thinking "these crazy
Americans!"...and we went home. A nice overhead with a greaser capped
off a great flight and two eye opening, if not headache producing, days
of flying.
So with the pictures taken, the heartfelt handshakes exchanged, and
logbook signed, I was left with the four wheel solitude of my Ford F-150
to reflect on a very eye opening and confidence inspiring experience.
As Roger Baker so eloquently puts it, the Yak-52 "has a flair for the
dramatic, but behaves just wonderfully." I agree. I found the Yak to
be an extremely enjoyable aircraft for it's purpose. It will do acro
all day long and never complain. It is a capable performer in the hands
of an equally capable pilot, but also is nice enough to encourage you to
be better if you're not as good as a guy like Yuri. I found no bad
habits, no uncomfortable tendencies, and in the end, a totally
predictable airplane.
I also see how guys get killed in these things. The stick forces to
recover from the upright flat spin were significant. I'm a 6'2', 200
lb., guy who hits the gym a couple days a week, and I thought Yuri was
fighting me on the stick the first time I tried to get it out of the
bottom left corner...it was just the airplane fighting me. I managed to
move the stick out of the corner with one arm but it took some effort.
Also, Yuri said that if you leave the aileron out of spin (i.e. left of
center in a right spin), even a touch, the plane will stay in the spin.
So yes, if you don't have proper type specific training and/or panic
when you get into an unexpected accelerated spin, I could see ending up
in a force on force battle with Mother Earth. But it seems, like with
most airplanes, the myth far supersedes reality.
The Yak-52 is a great airplane and does what it was designed to do just
about as well as anything out there. Spins? Well, it certainly
commands respect, but with the proper training, like Yuri says, "No
problem? No problem."
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14441#14441
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: [Interesting Duhh moment] Russian veterans day. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
I get it! the SU-27 is BUZZING the yankee warship! at
least that's what I would have said to keep my job...
-Robert S
Message 26
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| Subject: | [Barry post] Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Barry, I enjoyed your description greatly, it is really great fun isn't it
and the amazing thing is these Russian guys just go up and down again and
again as if it were nothing.
Great description Barry thanks
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of barry
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barry" <barry@flyredstar.org>
Gang,
The -52, just like any other high performance plane, is to be respected. A
little over two years ago I had the opportunity to spend some time in Tom
Johnson's -52 (he now has a -50) getting some advanced instruction. I
posted my experience on the Yak-list...and may be useful in this discussion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DISCLAIMER, this is for entertainment only. It is in no way intended as
instruction or and endorsement to do these maneuvers on your own.
So, your humble correspondent finally got to fly a Yak-52, and was left
scratching his head as to what all the fuss is about....
"That thing is deadly in a spin"
"Lots of good pilots have died in that airplane"
and my personal favorite,
"It will kill you if you're not paying attention"
These are all things I've heard or read when it came to the Yak-52. For two
years now, my interest has been piqued by all this talk and suggestion that
the Yak-52 is a handful of airplane. This seems a harsh contradiction to
it's purpose...a primary aerobatic/military trainer.
About 3 weeks ago, Roger Baker included me in an email that gave the times
and dates of upcoming aerobatic training from some Russian dude imported for
a couple of weeks. I figured to fly with him would be an awesome
opportunity to see this Blood Thirsty Russian Beast put through it's paces,
and stand a chance of not letting it kill me. So, I called Roger - whom I
met at All Red Star last year and have trying to get together ever since -
and wondered out loud if there was anyone in the area that would let me fly
their -52. Roger graciously offered to give me a front seat checkout in one
of his Yak Flying Club airplanes based out of Palomar, but a member needed
to be in the airplane at all times for insurance reasons (we'll get to that
irony in a second). I figured flying acro sitting in somebody's lap wasn't
an option, so I asked if anyone else was coming that might put me on their
insurance for the weekend. I found the PERFECT guy! Of all people, Tom
Johnson of Cannon Aviation Insurance was coming down! Well, Tom and I have
become friends over the past couple of years and I figured since I didn't
have a claim on record, he just might let me fly his Yellow Yak. :) Sure
'nough, Tom was as gracious as Roger....I was in!
So after a front seat checkout with Roger last Saturday. I drove the 80
miles to Ramona on Tuesday morning to fly the Yellow Yak with the Russian
dude. Turns out this dude is more than just a dude. He's Yuri Yeltsov,
head of the DOSAAF in Kazakhstan, with about, oh, a bazillion hours of acro
instructing in the -52. Vladimir Yastremski is a long time friend of Yuri's
and he and Roger arranged for his visit.
The one potential pitfall in all of this is the language barrier...but I
soon appreciated that there are two international languages, the other one
is aviation! During the preflight's and debrief's Vladimir stood by the
ready for any necessary interpretation, which was seldom needed unless it
was a technical question or discussion of the fine points.
Though his english was limited, phrases like "more push," "easy push,"
"left pedal," "right stick" and "Nyet, you idiot!" were very effective.
OK, he never called me an idiot...to my knowledge, anyway. :) Quite to the
contrary, he was always courteous and his reserved demeanor inspired
confidence in even a neophyte Yak driver (0 hours PIC, until last
Saturday) like me.
OK, Barry, enough window dressing... Right. I flew three times with Yuri.
The first hop consisted of the basic aerobatic maneuvers: rolls, slow rolls,
loop, Immelmans, Hammerheads. As Yuri would say, "No problem? No problem."
Occasionally, he would ask me "you normal?"....I refrained from telling him
about my latest psychotherapy session, and instead just nodded. After
awhile, my body started concurring with my therapist's analysis of my mental
state and we headed for home. On the ground I learned why I was dishing out
the last part of my slow rolls (not enough nose high when inverted), and
that I was very aggressive with the stick...it brought a smile to Yuri's
eyes when he told me that. I guess there's hope for me yet.
With 18 hours to shake the aerobatic fuzz out of my skull that had not seen
more than 2 G's in the last six months, I was back on Wednesday for a double
dose. The first session was snap rolls, point rolls, spins, and flat
upright spins. All went well, except my aerobatic tolerance was
deteriorating after about 15 mintues and it was a real fight, but I kept
going. Anyway, after my head hitting the canopy about 4 times, I finally
got the hang of the snap roll. Point rolls were rewarding, and then the
moment that I had been waiting for arrived. Spins.
The first spins we did were just the garden variety, power off, upright
spins. No issues there. I did notice, interestingly enough, that the
Yak-52 spin recovery is not as quick as the CJ's. After 3 or 4 evolutions,
though, I had compensated and we went to the flat, upright spin. "First
one, I do," came over the intercom. "First, normal entry, zen stick left
full, and power full." As we began to accelerate and the world went
whizzing past like a teacup ride with 3 body builders, I was reminded of
that oh so intellectual line from the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont high
when Spicolli says, "Ah-ah-ah-suh-uh-mmm!" Next thing I know we had done 5
revolutions and recovered by 6 1/2. "Again, dis time from Hammerhead," Yuri
said. "I do, you follow"...uh, OK, "no problem?
No problem." So away we went again, with Yuri counting rotations and me
just sitting there with this big stuff eatin' grin on my face. This is
FUN!!!! My still unaccustomed to acro head was feeling a little
topsy-turvy, so we headed for the barn.
I was a little worried I wouldn't make it past the first round of this final
bout with the -52 as my brain was still sloshing about in my head a bit.
Hopefully the Cannon Aviation Insurance sponsored Excedrin would do the
trick. This time, it was loops with aileron rolls at the top, Avalanches
(loop with a snap at the top), upset recovery training "I go in, you get
out"...he was talking about the maneuver, not the airplane...I don't think,
vertical rolls, and more spins "dis time, you do, I watch." Well, if I'm
not carrying the left over bag buy then, sure. As it turns out I got
stronger as this flight went on...I guess my brain was finally catching up
with my eyes. Anyway, the two areas I want to mention here are the upset
recovery - 60 degrees of bank, and exceed critical AoA. As we departed the
plane would head towards inverted. "Now you go!", said Yuri from the back,
and I aggressively stomped on top rudder and pushed the stick opposite the
roll. The next thing I knew we were straight and level. We did this from
various attitudes and in the end the result was the same....very predictable
and quick recovery.
Now it was finally time for "you do, I watch." So as we climbed up to 5000
AGL, Yuri went through the flat, upright spin procedure with me.
"Normal spin begin right, zen stick left full, and power full.
Recover...power off, off, stick forward right, left pedal full, wait for
stop spin, zen recover." Sure, Yuri, no problem, just like you did it,
right?
OK, crap, here we go.......normal right spin entry, stick full left, power
full, and....yeeeehaaaw! By this point I hear Yuri "...sree, forh, five!"
Uh, stick right forw...grrrrr, get over there!..forward, anti-spin rudder
(left), and "Power! Power off!" oh, yeah, that helps! A little sloppy on my
part, but Yuri stayed off the controls and we recovered in reasonable
fashion. "Again?!", I ask.
"OK," Mr. DOSAAF says, chuckling under his breath. Back up to 6000 MSL
again, and....wheeeeee! This time I'm actually keeping up with the spin
count, remember to get the power out, and she just happily recovers.
One more for posterity...Yuri must have been thinking "these crazy
Americans!"...and we went home. A nice overhead with a greaser capped off a
great flight and two eye opening, if not headache producing, days of flying.
So with the pictures taken, the heartfelt handshakes exchanged, and logbook
signed, I was left with the four wheel solitude of my Ford F-150 to reflect
on a very eye opening and confidence inspiring experience.
As Roger Baker so eloquently puts it, the Yak-52 "has a flair for the
dramatic, but behaves just wonderfully." I agree. I found the Yak to be an
extremely enjoyable aircraft for it's purpose. It will do acro all day long
and never complain. It is a capable performer in the hands of an equally
capable pilot, but also is nice enough to encourage you to be better if
you're not as good as a guy like Yuri. I found no bad habits, no
uncomfortable tendencies, and in the end, a totally predictable airplane.
I also see how guys get killed in these things. The stick forces to
recover from the upright flat spin were significant. I'm a 6'2', 200 lb.,
guy who hits the gym a couple days a week, and I thought Yuri was fighting
me on the stick the first time I tried to get it out of the bottom left
corner...it was just the airplane fighting me. I managed to move the stick
out of the corner with one arm but it took some effort.
Also, Yuri said that if you leave the aileron out of spin (i.e. left of
center in a right spin), even a touch, the plane will stay in the spin.
So yes, if you don't have proper type specific training and/or panic when
you get into an unexpected accelerated spin, I could see ending up in a
force on force battle with Mother Earth. But it seems, like with most
airplanes, the myth far supersedes reality.
The Yak-52 is a great airplane and does what it was designed to do just
about as well as anything out there. Spins? Well, it certainly commands
respect, but with the proper training, like Yuri says, "No problem? No
problem."
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14441#14441
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
that was great. here's another good one. i especially like the quote, "You like
play Horsey horsey eh?"
http://www.skytrace.co.uk/jack.html
barry wrote:
> Gang,
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14455#14455
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Scooter,
Like I said..tremendous waste of energy and you are nothing more than an
easy target at that point.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Scooter <yakk52@verizon.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/23/2006 4:06:02 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> that was great. here's another good one. i especially like the quote,
"You like play Horsey horsey eh?"
>
> http://www.skytrace.co.uk/jack.html
>
>
> barry wrote:
> > Gang,
> >
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14455#14455
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Technical Thoughts; No Flight Suits Required |
Any YAK or CJ aircraft equipped with the air compressor has a pressure
relief valve. This pop-off valve pressure is adjusted by a cap that
tightens a spring, thus controlling the point where the valve will open and
vent excess pressure.
Over time, the pop-off valve seal will wear which will result in a constant
leak, and the systems inability to told pressure.
In the YAK-50, closing the main air valve stops this leak and you will keep
whatever happens to be left in the tank for later use. In the YAK-52, this
is NOT the case, and the air will leak until it is completely gone...
regardless of whether the main air valve is off or on.
Doug Sapp sells replacement pop-off valves for the CJ-6. The internal parts
of this valve assembly will interchange with the slightly different external
valve assemblies used on the YAK-50, 52, and 55, along with the Sukhoi
26,29, 31 series. The YAK-52W and TW use a different POP-OFF valve and are
not interchangeable with any other model listed above.
There is a very slick alternative to the above made by Circle Seal Controls.
A suitable part number would be something like:
M5132T2M(L)711 Check out their Web Site.
This American made pop-off valve can be ordered with a pull up manual
pressure relief control ring to allow bleeding of the air system, and is
totally rebuildable, and has a much better controlled set pressure. Price
is around $430 or so. Not cheap by any means, but a totally reliable
product. Of course, some American pipe thread to Russian 37 degree flare
fitting adaptation will be required.
On this note, the AN6 female flare >| fits the Russian air and smoke
fittings dead on. You can take a fitting such as an AN6, remove the B nut,
and put on the metric Russian B nut, and it will work perfectly.
Sergei Boriak showed me an idea he had where a piece of steel was machined
to give an AN6 female flare and on the other end was a male AN4 with
threads. Using this adapter, one simply slides on the Metric Russian B nut
to the AN6 side, and you have an instant converter going from Russian Air or
Smoke line to an AN4 male flare. With two of these a person can replace
most lines in the CJ-6 or YAK series of aircraft with an American made AN-4
hose line in seconds. I have made several of these in Stainless and in hard
Aluminum, and carry two of them with me at all times for emergency purposes.
(Doug Sapp, are you listening buddy?) I am throwing this idea out to the
public at large, even though a smart person would order a whole bunch of
these and sell them to people reading this list. You can have an American
AN-4 line made just about anywhere, any shape, any size, any length. With
converters such as the ones I have described here, you have an "out" when
you have a Russian line or hose fail on a cross country flight. Two of
these need to be in every flight bag out there. (Go for it Doug)
Another neat idea is the idea of the "compressor unloader". The most simple
method here is to simply run a telex type cable from the cockpit to the
engine compartment and mount it to an arm that you attach to the snot valve
"knob". Pulling on the control cable from the cockpit opens the snot valve,
and thus unloads the compressor. This not only increases the life of the
compressor, but it also gives you some horsepower back from what it took to
drive it. Don't laugh, it takes a few horses to turn this little jewel.
A REALLY slick method of accomplishing the above is to go to the snot valve
and unscrew the copper line that attaches to the bottom of it. Make a new
fitting with a line that then goes over to an electrically controlled 28
volt valve. Now you can open your snot valve // unload the compressor
ELECTRICALLY. Any number of electrically controlled 28 volt DC valves that
can handle 750-800 PSI are available surplus or new. Your choice. The only
trick is hooking to the bottom of the snot valve. Some folks have taken the
snot valve and retapped the bottom threads for this reason.
Another slick trick I have seen is to replace the standard three gage device
in our aircraft (oil temp/Fuel Pressure/Oil Pressure) with an American made
instrument that fits in the same hole and gives not only the original three,
but also manifold pressure. The Russian sensors have to be replaced, but it
opens a hole in a tight instrument panel if you need it.
Speaking of engine instruments, the TACH GENERATOR on the M-14 engine can in
many cases be a pain. If the Tachometer in the aircraft starts rotating
backwards, or is way out of place from where it is supposed to be, ALWAYS go
to the Tach Generator cannon plug and check for broken wires first. 9 times
out of 10, you will find your problem right here. However... keep in mind
that if you have more than one broken wire, reversing these wires will cause
the Tach to read in any number of ways. For the savvy electronic types,
this is a synchro hookup. Treat it accordingly. Also make sure... DARN
SURE... that you have the shield ground hooked up on this baby, or else
stand by for some HUGE whining noises in your radio. Lastly, unless the
Tach Generator itself is kept tightly snugged up to the engine, it can come
loose and then ruin the drive shaft. All this ends up being kind of a pain.
The Horizon Instruments P-1000 Electronic Tach is a SUPER replacement for
the above problem. You can install this tach and remove the existing
Russian Tach Generator and replace it with a cover plate. Abandon the
wiring or cut it out. The P-1000 attaches to the "P" leads on your MAG
CONTROL SWITCH and not only gives you RPM, but gives you TWO RPM sensors....
one for each MAG! This instrument will warn you if there is a difference
between rotational speeds of either MAG thus warning you instantly of a
total failure of either MAG in flight. It also automatically records engine
time, and maximum recorded RPM. The operator can also select either MAG to
output RPM, etc., etc. No, I do not have stock in this product, but I wish
I did. It is a marvelous replacement for the Russian Tach, and in the
end... cheaper.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
p.s. Sadly, I must inform everyone that only people that fly in shorts and
sneakers can apply these ideas.
Just kidding.... good ideas, like good training, should always be
shared without rancor or requirement.
And yes Ernie, in this case I very much indeed was trying to get in
the last word.... but I AM smiling.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Vals Valkyrie Logo rights reserved |
Good observation Doug.
"It's because she's enjoying herself." I'd apologize for my gender being so bloodthursty
if I didn't know that you guys are up there grinning from ear to ear
too as you get on each other's tail too. The "grin ratio" depends on whether
you're at the six O'clock position or the twelve.
Yep. I did all of the artwork myself. Glad you enjoyed it.- Valkyrie
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Val's Valkyrie Vonder Voman |
'Zank ewe werry much. I am tending to agree wiz ewe. Zee bluud tursty Valkyrie
voman eez zee owne. - der Valkyrie
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Vals Valkyrie Logo rights reserved |
First, vat eez an A2 Leather? Then if you like, just leave my signature on it
and that would be fine. Just don't let anyone else copy it. ( As long as the
A2 leather, whatever it is, doesn't go anywhere I wouldn't want to.) - Valkyrie
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: More nose art |
What V Speed does she fall off at? - V
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Val's Chang logo, rights reservedEmailing: Val's |
Chang logo, rights reserved
You are correct on both counts Sam. The great thing about nose art and artistic
license is that you can have it pretty much any way you want it. It's for fun.
I've done Kendo for years and collect Katanas, so I kind of like that, and I've
never met a Chinese or Japanese gentleman that looks like "Chang.
- V
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