Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: Yak-52 hydraulic lock? (Hans Oortman)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Yak-52 hydraulic lock? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Genzlinger, Reade)
4. 12:52 PM - IAR 823 (the wades)
5. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
6. 01:38 PM - Re: Yak-52 hydraulic lock? (Roger Kemp)
7. 02:34 PM - Greg Arnold (ByronMFox@aol.com)
8. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Ben Marsh)
9. 02:56 PM - Tipping line personnel (Scott Poehlmann)
10. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Ben Marsh)
12. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Jim Griffin)
13. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Brian Lloyd)
14. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Ben Marsh)
15. 06:40 PM - CJ6A overvoltage module (Brian Lloyd)
16. 06:46 PM - Fw: T-6's Water Skiing! (Walter Lannon)
17. 07:12 PM - Re: The best use for flight suits (Ron Davis)
18. 07:14 PM - CJ-6A Model (Jeff Linebaugh)
19. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (N13472@aol.com)
20. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: compensation issue, my second last try. (Ron Davis)
21. 07:44 PM - Re: Tin (Ron Davis)
22. 07:53 PM - Re: Tin (Ron Davis)
23. 09:02 PM - Re: Tin (Brian Lloyd)
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| Subject: | Yak-52 hydraulic lock? |
Dear H=E5vard,
I have never seen this with our Yak.
Do you run de engine at 60% for about 20 sec. before shutting down??
Hans Oortman
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens H=E5vard N. Iversen
Verzonden: maandag 27 februari 2006 8:09
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Yak-52 hydraulic lock?
Hello!
Me and my friend have been opertaing our Yak during wintertime now,
operating the engine below 5 degrees Celsius, even down to -5. STarting the
engine really hasn=B4t ben difficult, but have learned that you should not
without pre-heating. We have drained for oil every 3 days without a flight,
turning 20 blades before priming and another 10.
After the last flight at Saturday, we notice some oil dripping out of the
exhaust imediatly after shut down.(maybe a teaspoon full)
That we didn=B4t like much! How common is this? May this be a sign of a minor
hydraulic lock, with bent engine parts?
Please advise, and from only those serius guys!
Thanx!
H=E5vard N. Iversen
Televeien 14A
2020 skedsmokorset
mobil: +47 928 93 546
www.yaknorway.com
e-mail: haavard-iversen@c2i.net
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 hydraulic lock? |
Havard,
I do not think you have a real problem. I've seem my 1,200 hour M-14p do this
on a number of occactions. It might be that the ring gaps on one piston=20have
shifted around and line up, allowing some oil to seep by, or you may have a
small leak in your induction system seal. Anyway a "tea spoon" of oil=20is not
a big deal.
It sounds that you are taking good precaution during the pre-start which where
bending a rod would happened.
There are a number of ways you can check to see if you've bent a rod but this little
bit of oil is not (at least to me) not something to worry about.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:54:49 +0100
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 hydraulic lock?
Dear H=E5vard,
I have never seen this with our Yak.
Do you run de engine at 60% for about 20 sec. before shutting down??
Hans Oortman
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens H=E5vard N. Iversen
Verzonden: maandag 27 februari 2006 8:09
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Yak-52 hydraulic lock?
Hello!
Me and my friend have been opertaing our Yak during wintertime now, operating the
engine below 5 degrees Celsius, even down to -5. STarting the engine really
hasn=B4t ben difficult, but have learned that you should not without pre-heating.
We have drained for oil every 3 days without a flight, turning 20 blades
before priming and another 10.
After the last flight at Saturday, we notice some oil dripping out of the exhaust
imediatly after shut down.(maybe a teaspoon full)
That we didn=B4t like much! How common is this? May this be a sign of a minor hydraulic
lock, with bent engine parts?
Please advise, and from only those serius guys!
Thanx!
H=E5vard N. Iversen
Televeien 14A
2020 skedsmokorset
mobil: +47 928 93 546
www.yaknorway.com
e-mail: haavard-iversen@c2i.net
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 421 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc"
>
> I find it suprising that when you say "I wish you wouldn't
> require me to wear a flight suit" some people hear "It isn't
> a good idea to wear a flight suit". There is a huge
> difference in those two statements. The inability to
> distinguish the difference is why libertarian philosophy has
> such a hard road to travel.
BINGO!! Very well put.
> If you feel safer, by all means
> don your nomex. Heck, don't stop there, get a helmet,
> parachute, life jacket, and shark repellant. If, on the
> other hand, you intend to tell other people what to wear in
> their cockpit, be prepared to hear some bitching. Many
> freedoms have been eroded in the name of safety and "good
> ideas". I am sure that there are lots of people who would
> feel safer if pilots would quit flying those dangerous,
> military, aerobatic, experimental aircraft over their heads.
> Heck those things are from china and russia, they aren't even
> up to FAA standards!
Yep - as soon as you enter Class B the wings start to flap, the engine
sputters and the tail will fall off.
Thank you Craig Craft for the clarity - which Brian Lloyd has attempted to
convey many times.
Reade
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I know this is a Yak list and I seem to be inundated with e-mails from this list
over 2000 currently. But here goes just thought I'd let you guys & gals know
that I've just listed an IAR 823 on e-bay so if your interested in a four place
check it out if not pass it along to some one who might be interested. Thanks
Bill Wade
Yak 52 N4450Y
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you
square in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words,
it discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel
between their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and
burns very merrily turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex,
worn by military aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly
exposed to burning fluids for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted
a lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well
worth having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any
improvement over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were
worthless and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should
specify that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight
training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner
of ways, and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is
not an uncommon tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10%
truth, add in 90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later
credit the truth AND the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against
something he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired
of talking about it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest
tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call
them "savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the
time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been
turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how
you CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns.
Or... continue to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know
any better, but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE
GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to
receive FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for
such a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your
organization after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest
forever. Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality
due to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps.
Intensive research and development followed by installation of crashworthy
fuel systems and issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate
in survivable aviation rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743
Message 6
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| Subject: | Yak-52 hydraulic lock? |
The oil leaking from the exhaust after shutdown is not that uncommon. More than
likely you shut down with the exhaust valve on one of the lower 3 cylinders open
so that oil drained down and out the stack. I have the manifold drain kit
installed, so it is not uncommon to see oil drain out when I open the stop cock
after pushing the plane back into the hanger.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Hvard N. Iversen
Sent: 2/27/2006 1:15:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 hydraulic lock?
Hello!
Me and my friend have been opertaing our Yak during wintertime now, operating the
engine below 5 degrees Celsius, even down to -5. STarting the engine really
hasnt ben difficult, but have learned that you should not without pre-heating.
We have drained for oil every 3 days without a flight, turning 20 blades before
priming and another 10.
After the last flight at Saturday, we notice some oil dripping out of the exhaust
imediatly after shut down.(maybe a teaspoon full)
That we didnt like much! How common is this? May this be a sign of a minor hydraulic
lock, with bent engine parts?
Please advise, and from only those serius guys!
Thanx!
Hvard N. Iversen
Televeien 14A
2020 skedsmokorset
mobil: +47 928 93 546
www.yaknorway.com
e-mail: haavard-iversen@c2i.net
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 421 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!
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Please contact me off line. ...Blitz (byronmfox@aol.com)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
The whole flight suit discussion seems a bit more like justification of an
emotional need to dress like the military guys as opposed to a logical
rational. If that's the case, so be it. It doesn't blow my skirt up an
inch either way. Still, have you ever seen those T-28 guys strap in? Now
that's a maladjusted ego. I hope we Yak and CJ guys don't become another
group like that!
Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on Saturday
in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus. This was my
second flight in the airplane. This was unique in that we performed his
airbatic routine from the deck, including the vertical roll. Imagine flying
over the fence at 25' and 370 knots, pulling seven to the vertical for a
leisurely full roll. Over the top with a half loop well above 5000', he
established the vertical down line for the second roll.
This was an awesome experience. And, for the record, I wore my flight suit
(for the first time since test flying my -52 four years ago), complete with
my Boy Scout merit badge as my all important hero-pilot insignia. And
folks, it would not have made any difference if I wore it or not. I was
only the second hippest guy on the ramp, no matter what.
Cheers,
Ben
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you
square in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words,
it discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel
between their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and
burns very merrily turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex,
worn by military aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly
exposed to burning fluids for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted
a lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well
worth having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any
improvement over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were
worthless and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should
specify that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight
training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner
of ways, and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is
not an uncommon tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10%
truth, add in 90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later
credit the truth AND the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against
something he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired
of talking about it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest
tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call
them "savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the
time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been
turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how
you CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns.
Or... continue to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know
any better, but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE
GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to
receive FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for
such a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your
organization after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest
forever. Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality
due to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps.
Intensive research and development followed by installation of crashworthy
fuel systems and issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate
in survivable aviation rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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| Subject: | Tipping line personnel |
Hi Guys (and Gals),
I know that we are all fascinated by the on-going discussion on the relative
merits of flight suits and Nomex (I wear one, but wouldn't mandate it for
anyone else), but I have a much more mundane question: What do people do
about tipping line guys (and gals)? I have recently purchased a Yak 55M, and
have received nothing but stellar service from the line guys at the FBO
where I am based. They are excited about the plane, have been interested to
learn how to handle it correctly, and have gone out of their way to help me
with it (to the point of driving me to my house the evening that I brought
the plane home the first time.). In the past, I have had two-seat airplanes,
and handled the issue of tipping by just giving them rides. Obviously, in
the single seat -55M, that is no longer an option. What do most people here
do about tipping?
BTW, I can now say with some degree of authority, that a -55M really is
about 80-85% of a Sukhoi for about 1/3 of the price (since my last ride was
an Su29).
Thanks,
Scott Poehlmann
Yak 55M N155YK
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
So you're saying that it's the airplane coupled with the pilot's abilities
that determines how HIP you are?
A novel thought.
The Sea Fury sounds like a real hoot... you're a lucky son of a gun!
In the end though, power is all a matter of perspective. "Back in day", I
was in the back seat of a Marine RF-4B when we did a buzz job at Cubi Point.
50 feet over the numbers, over 500 knots downt the runway, light the
burners and pull vertical doing rolls all the way to 25,000 feet. Of
course, in all fairness.... we also did not have a "down line" :-)
The YAK-50 will do a half-cuban on take-off followed by a full stop on the
same runway...albeit... a 5000 foot runway. :-)
You're right though... the Sea Fury rules.
Take care,
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben Marsh
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
The whole flight suit discussion seems a bit more like justification of an
emotional need to dress like the military guys as opposed to a logical
rational. If that's the case, so be it. It doesn't blow my skirt up an
inch either way. Still, have you ever seen those T-28 guys strap in? Now
that's a maladjusted ego. I hope we Yak and CJ guys don't become another
group like that!
Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on Saturday
in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus. This was my
second flight in the airplane. This was unique in that we performed his
airbatic routine from the deck, including the vertical roll. Imagine flying
over the fence at 25' and 370 knots, pulling seven to the vertical for a
leisurely full roll. Over the top with a half loop well above 5000', he
established the vertical down line for the second roll.
This was an awesome experience. And, for the record, I wore my flight suit
(for the first time since test flying my -52 four years ago), complete with
my Boy Scout merit badge as my all important hero-pilot insignia. And
folks, it would not have made any difference if I wore it or not. I was
only the second hippest guy on the ramp, no matter what.
Cheers,
Ben
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you
square in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words,
it discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel
between their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and
burns very merrily turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex,
worn by military aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly
exposed to burning fluids for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted
a lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well
worth having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any
improvement over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were
worthless and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should
specify that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight
training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner
of ways, and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is
not an uncommon tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10%
truth, add in 90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later
credit the truth AND the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against
something he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired
of talking about it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest
tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call
them "savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the
time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been
turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how
you CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns.
Or... continue to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know
any better, but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE
GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to
receive FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for
such a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your
organization after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest
forever. Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality
due to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps.
Intensive research and development followed by installation of crashworthy
fuel systems and issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate
in survivable aviation rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743>
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Indeed, it ain't what we wear; it's what we do that counts.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
So you're saying that it's the airplane coupled with the pilot's abilities
that determines how HIP you are?
A novel thought.
The Sea Fury sounds like a real hoot... you're a lucky son of a gun!
In the end though, power is all a matter of perspective. "Back in day", I
was in the back seat of a Marine RF-4B when we did a buzz job at Cubi Point.
50 feet over the numbers, over 500 knots downt the runway, light the
burners and pull vertical doing rolls all the way to 25,000 feet. Of
course, in all fairness.... we also did not have a "down line" :-)
The YAK-50 will do a half-cuban on take-off followed by a full stop on the
same runway...albeit... a 5000 foot runway. :-)
You're right though... the Sea Fury rules.
Take care,
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben Marsh
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
The whole flight suit discussion seems a bit more like justification of an
emotional need to dress like the military guys as opposed to a logical
rational. If that's the case, so be it. It doesn't blow my skirt up an
inch either way. Still, have you ever seen those T-28 guys strap in? Now
that's a maladjusted ego. I hope we Yak and CJ guys don't become another
group like that!
Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on Saturday
in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus. This was my
second flight in the airplane. This was unique in that we performed his
airbatic routine from the deck, including the vertical roll. Imagine flying
over the fence at 25' and 370 knots, pulling seven to the vertical for a
leisurely full roll. Over the top with a half loop well above 5000', he
established the vertical down line for the second roll.
This was an awesome experience. And, for the record, I wore my flight suit
(for the first time since test flying my -52 four years ago), complete with
my Boy Scout merit badge as my all important hero-pilot insignia. And
folks, it would not have made any difference if I wore it or not. I was
only the second hippest guy on the ramp, no matter what.
Cheers,
Ben
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you
square in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words,
it discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel
between their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and
burns very merrily turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex,
worn by military aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly
exposed to burning fluids for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted
a lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well
worth having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any
improvement over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were
worthless and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should
specify that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight
training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner
of ways, and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is
not an uncommon tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10%
truth, add in 90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later
credit the truth AND the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against
something he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired
of talking about it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest
tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call
them "savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the
time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been
turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how
you CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns.
Or... continue to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know
any better, but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE
GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to
receive FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for
such a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your
organization after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest
forever. Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality
due to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps.
Intensive research and development followed by installation of crashworthy
fuel systems and issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate
in survivable aviation rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?Hey Ben, I've got a correction for you. I flew
a T-28 in the Osh Kosh airshow for 12 years and wore a flight suit about half
the time. It depends on the temp. That engine generates an enormous amount
of heat. Ralph Glasser, the 28 flight lead, flys the show in a floral cotton
scrub suit shirt. He does wear gloves. The RPA is a lot more ANAL about their
dress than any other warbird group.
Jim Griffin
CJ6-A, T-6D, former 28 driver
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Marsh
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
The whole flight suit discussion seems a bit more like justification of an emotional
need to dress like the military guys as opposed to a logical rational.
If that's the case, so be it. It doesn't blow my skirt up an inch either way.
Still, have you ever seen those T-28 guys strap in? Now that's a maladjusted
ego. I hope we Yak and CJ guys don't become another group like that!
Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on Saturday
in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus. This was my second
flight in the airplane. This was unique in that we performed his airbatic
routine from the deck, including the vertical roll. Imagine flying over the
fence at 25' and 370 knots, pulling seven to the vertical for a leisurely full
roll. Over the top with a half loop well above 5000', he established the vertical
down line for the second roll.
This was an awesome experience. And, for the record, I wore my flight suit (for
the first time since test flying my -52 four years ago), complete with my
Boy Scout merit badge as my all important hero-pilot insignia. And folks, it
would not have made any difference if I wore it or not. I was only the second
hippest guy on the ramp, no matter what.
Cheers,
Ben
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:58 PM
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you
square in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words,
it discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel between
their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and burns very
merrily turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex, worn by military
aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly exposed to burning fluids
for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted
a lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well worth
having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any improvement
over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were worthless
and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should specify
that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner of
ways, and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is not an
uncommon tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10% truth, add in
90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later credit the truth
AND the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against something
he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired of talking
about it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call
them "savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how you
CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns. Or...
continue to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know any better,
but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to receive
FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for such
a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your organization
after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest forever.
Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality due
to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps. Intensive research
and development followed by installation of crashworthy fuel systems and
issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate in survivable aviation
rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D14743#14743
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ben Marsh wrote:
> *Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on
> Saturday in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus.
> This was my second flight in the airplane.
Wow! You must be in the area. I haven't tried to get Brian to give me a
hop. Heck, I haven't been over to Eagle's Nest since I headed for the
islands.
If you are indeed in the area, let's get together and fly.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ben Marsh" <ben@designselect.net>
I've been working with Dennis on his N3N project for 3.5 year, nearly every
Saturday. I've been working on my -55 project in the shop for over a year.
And, I've crewed for Sanders at the races now for 8 years. The Sanders
family are kind and important friends. I am blessed.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ben Marsh wrote:
> *Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on
> Saturday in the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus.
> This was my second flight in the airplane.
Wow! You must be in the area. I haven't tried to get Brian to give me a
hop. Heck, I haven't been over to Eagle's Nest since I headed for the
islands.
If you are indeed in the area, let's get together and fly.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 15
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| Subject: | CJ6A overvoltage module |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
For those of you interested in the OV module for the CJ6A generator,
Bob Nuckols found some bugs in the bench testing that have now been
eradicated. He says the module is ready for flight testing. He is
sending me the first module this week. I hope to get it installed in
Blitz's airplane soon. (Blitz: when's a good time?)
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fw: T-6's Water Skiing! |
Thought you all may enjoy this. Don't try it with the CJ or any aircraft with a
training wheel - the brakes must be on!
T-6's Water Skiing!
Pilots Hone Their Skills For Upcoming Airshow Season.
Photography by Frans Dely/Aviationdimension.com
Early morning anglers are treated to the spectacle of four T6 Harvard
Aircraft from The Flying Lions Aerobatic Team waterskiing across the
Klipdrift Dam near Johannesburg South Africa.
Lead by Scully Levin, with wingmen Arnie Meneghelli, Stewart Lithgow and
Ellis Levin, this renowned airshow display team rehearse a sequence
for the newly launched "Aviation Action" television program on Supersport.
Arnie Meneghelli from Academy Brushware, owner of the aircraft, had this to
say, "What we did today I believe is a world first. It illustrates that
South African airshow pilots are amongst the best in the world".
This unusual act, approved by the South African Civil Aviation Authority
(CAA), and supported by Castrol Aviation, was meticulously planned and
took place under the watchfull eye of divers and paramedics that were on
site.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: The best use for flight suits |
Does the R/C association require flight suits, too?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorgen Nielsen
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:32 PM
Subject: Yak-List: The best use for flight suits
Donate them to your r/c pals. (radio control, aka model aeroplanes)
I saw a bunch of them in a (US) magazine picture, all wearing flight suits with
patches as well. There was no text that explained the set-up. Must be monster
model aircraft over there, powered by plutonium or warpdrive or something?
Glad I live in South Africa, the US seems like a real frightening dangerous place.
Jorgen
Message 18
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I was just given a 1:32 Scale plastic model kit of the CJ-6....and it is
very cool! Good detail...to include the engine and the cockpits...even has
the fuse boxes behind the front seat! I have not started yet, so can't
comment on the fit yet, but sure looks nice! I highly recommend it to all.
It is a Trumpeter kit, and my buddy Jay says he saw it on the Horizon
website for $29...
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
with Val's CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil writes:
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS
Which month?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: compensation issue, my second last try. |
The exemption is for passengers to share expenses. IMHO the FAA is on shaky legal
ground as far as compensation for static display. You don't need any license
to own a plane and all of the FARs on commercial operations refer to carrying
passengers or cargo for hire or a flight for hire (delivering a plane, towing
a glider, etc).
Museums charge people to look at their planes. Does the person selling the tickets
have commercial license? Does the guy who owns the museum? It started out
to be a policy of not giving fuel to Private pilots who flew in the show and
spiraled out of control to include sandwiches.
Sadly, my opinion doesn't count. You need to find a judge that feels this way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for "sharing expenses"?
How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is
beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form? Three sandwiches,
two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one
lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why isn't
free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't have
typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well along
that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe? . Could
a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the regs?
Message 21
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So do you guys have to wear flight suits over there?
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Jefferies-YAK UK
To: 'YAK USA LIST'
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Tin
http://www.fuelcat.co.uk/history.html
can Brian or would Ernie like to comment on this subject. About =BD way down
the page is the interesting stuff ref Russian a/c. I know there are experts on
this list ref Ethanol additives in fuel.
Cheers, mj
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
3) vapor pressure
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tin
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Mark Jefferies-YAK UK wrote:
>> http://www.fuelcat.co.uk/history.html
>>
>>
>>
>> can Brian or would Ernie like to comment on this subject. About way
>> down the page is the interesting stuff ref Russian a/c. I know there
>> are experts on this list ref Ethanol additives in fuel.
>
> I don't see any references to alcohol in your link but will comment
> anyway as I suspect that the US is going to go in for ethanol in a big
> way here very soon. We have the ability to produce it in quantities that
> make it attractive.
>
> Ethanol has two strikes against it as a replacement fuel for aircraft:
>
> 1. It tends to be more corrosive. You have to go through your fuel
> system and replace things that are prone to attack by alcohols.
>
> 2. It has only about 1/2 the energy density of gasoline. Here:
>
> Ethanol: 26.8 MJ/Kg (megajoules per kilogram)
> Gasoline: ~45 MJ/Kg
>
> That means, to produce the same horsepower for the same length of time,
> you will need to carry almost double the weight of gasoline in alcohol.
> Either that or cut your range in half.
>
> The only good thing about alcohol is that it has such a high octane
> rating that detonation is almost impossible. This lends itself to very
> high power-to-weight ratio high-compression supercharged engines or
> engines that are much more efficient.
>
> If you just want an airplane to play with locally, alcohol might be an
> acceptable fuel. If you want an airplane to go cross-country with,
> alcohol sucks.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Feb 27, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Ron Davis wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> 3) vapor pressure
Good point. I was thinking that the RVP of ethanol was lower than
gasoline. Even so, that is just a minor engineering problem. You
can't engineer away lower energy density.
>> Ethanol has two strikes against it as a replacement fuel for
>> aircraft:
>>
>> 1. It tends to be more corrosive. You have to go through your fuel
>> system and replace things that are prone to attack by alcohols.
>>
>> 2. It has only about 1/2 the energy density of gasoline. Here:
>>
>> Ethanol: 26.8 MJ/Kg (megajoules per kilogram)
>> Gasoline: ~45 MJ/Kg
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
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