Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Tipping line personnel (cdustercc)
2. 05:07 AM - T-6 water skiing (Roger Kemp)
3. 05:13 AM - CJ-6A Model Kit Source (Jeff Linebaugh)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Roger Kemp)
5. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Roger Kemp)
6. 05:34 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Michael Bolton)
7. 05:41 AM - Russina aero types, was tipping line personnel. (Fraser, Gus)
8. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Stephen Fox)
9. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Fraser, Gus)
10. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Stephen Fox)
11. 06:04 AM - Airshow Compensation and comm lic req. (Drew Blahnick)
12. 07:04 AM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Scooter)
13. 07:11 AM - Russian aero types (Richard Goode)
14. 07:27 AM - Re: T-6 water skiing (Ben Marsh)
15. 07:44 AM - Re: Russian aero types (Fraser, Gus)
16. 07:55 AM - Re: T-6 water skiing (Brian Lloyd)
17. 08:02 AM - water skiing (Brian Lloyd)
18. 08:16 AM - Re: water skiing (cdustercc)
19. 10:55 AM - Re: water skiing (Herb Coussons)
20. 11:02 AM - Re: T-6 water skiing (Roger Kemp)
21. 11:49 AM - Re: water skiing (Genzlinger, Reade)
22. 01:40 PM - Re: Tipping line personnel (Tim Gagnon)
23. 01:41 PM - Re: Desert Tan Flight Suits (Tim Gagnon)
24. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
25. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: Desert Tan Flight Suits (Roger Kemp)
26. 02:28 PM - FW: toilet cleaning instructions for the dead horse (Roger Kemp)
27. 02:28 PM - Re: CJ6A overvoltage module (ByronMFox@aol.com)
28. 02:33 PM - Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? (Scooter)
29. 03:39 PM - Flight Suit Discussion (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
30. 03:41 PM - Re: CJ6A overvoltage module (Brian Lloyd)
31. 06:54 PM - Re: CJ-6A Model Kit Source (Gene Stansbery)
32. 09:06 PM - Re: CJ6A overvoltage module (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tipping line personnel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc" <craig@craftairservices.com>
Its a shame the yak 54 didn't get produced in large numbers. I've never seen one
but it has to be a great combination. It would definetely solve your "tipping"
problem. Where were folks like you when I was pumping gas twenty years ago?
My biggest tip was "hey kid, you missed a spot on my windshield!"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18371#18371
Message 2
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| Subject: | T-6 water skiing |
Don't believe they are the first to try that. Think there are some Cub acts around
that have done this on the show circuits in the past.
Not exactly my cup of tea, but each to his own. They maybe the first to do this
in formation now.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 3
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| Subject: | CJ-6A Model Kit Source |
Here is the website to order a CJ-6A Plastic Model kit...I was incorrect in
the price...it is $39.95 from this source...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=3DTSM2240
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
With Val's CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
-------Original Message-------
From: MFilucci@aol.com
Subject: website
Jeff,
What is the address of the Horizon website you mentioned with regard to the
CJ model?
Mike
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Well,
See the flt suit issue is still alive. Damned horse won't stay in the hole!
Ok, since it was brought up..one other reason to wear something with secure pockets,
itsto keep unwanted objects from wondering around in the empenage.
Flight suits have nice pockets that do that. Of course, the other option is empty
all your pockets out before you fly. Lastly, the leg pocket is a great place
for a wallet so you do not have to sit on it cross country or during your hour
or so sortie for whatever. Now for those of you that carry a purse, well that
is another matter.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Griffin
Sent: 2/27/2006 6:49:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
Hey Ben, I've got a correction for you. I flew a T-28 in the Osh Kosh airshow for
12 years and wore a flight suit about half the time. It depends on the temp.
That engine generates an enormous amount of heat. Ralph Glasser, the 28 flight
lead, flys the show in a floral cotton scrub suit shirt. He does wear gloves.
The RPA is a lot more ANAL about their dress than any other warbird group.
Jim Griffin
CJ6-A, T-6D, former 28 driver
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Marsh
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
The whole flight suit discussion seems a bit more like justification of an emotional
need to dress like the military guys as opposed to a logical rational.
If thats the case, so be it. It doesnt blow my skirt up an inch either way.
Still, have you ever seen those T-28 guys strap in? Now thats a maladjusted ego.
I hope we Yak and CJ guys dont become another group like that!
Incidentally, I had occasion to fly with my friend Brian Sanders on Saturday in
the only flying T-MK-20 Sea Fury with a Bristol Centaurus. This was my second
flight in the airplane. This was unique in that we performed his airbatic routine
from the deck, including the vertical roll. Imagine flying over the fence
at 25 and 370 knots, pulling seven to the vertical for a leisurely full roll.
Over the top with a half loop well above 5000, he established the vertical
down line for the second roll.
This was an awesome experience. And, for the record, I wore my flight suit (for
the first time since test flying my -52 four years ago), complete with my Boy
Scout merit badge as my all important hero-pilot insignia. And folks, it would
not have made any difference if I wore it or not. I was only the second hippest
guy on the ramp, no matter what.
Cheers,
Ben
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
It was a good whack Scooter, but the horse just turned around and kicked you square
in the chest.
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT AEROBATICS.
It does a very good job of NOT comparing apples to oranges. In other words, it
discusses people who fly Aerobatic aircraft (like us), who have fuel between
their legs (like some of us) and how Nomex soaks up that fuel and burns very merrily
turning you into toast. It also discusses how Nomex, worn by military
aviators with ejection seats, and who are not directly exposed to burning fluids
for too long, do very well with them.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the man who wrote the article and conducted a
lot of very good testing in order to do so.
His bottom line conclusion was that Fire Retardant Flight Suits were well worth
having, but that a simple Nomex flight suit offered little if any improvement
over a set of jeans and a tea shirt. His words, not mine.
Interestingly enough.... my point all along was NOT that Flight Suits were worthless
and should never be worn, but rather that no organization should specify
that flight suits be worn in order to receive any kind of flight training.
Others, (in their exuberance) have turned what I said around in any manner of ways,
and then have attacked what I never said to begin with. This is not an uncommon
tactic really. The formula works like this: "Take 10% truth, add in
90% stupid nonsense, and then point out the obvious. Later credit the truth AND
the 90% nonsense to the person you disagree with".
By the time "the other guy" finishes trying to defend himself against something
he never said... he looks pretty stupid and everybody gets tired of talking about
it, and wants to hang the original poster from the nearest tree.
The above tactic is used regularly by a few savvy folk on this list. I call them
"savvy" because they are... it works on EVERYBODY 99.99999% of the time.
Well, this time... and by mere coincidence only .... the tables have been turned.
Go read the article. Become a smarter, and more informed pilot on just how you
CAN help to protect yourself from cockpit fires and possible burns. Or... continue
to rant about how good Nomex is, not because you really know any better,
but because the military wears them, and therefore, they MUST BE GOOD.
As for RPA still requiring a person to wear a nomex flight suit in order to receive
FAST training, this article removes any last shred of rationale for such
a rule. Require them for your events and membership if you like (your organization
after all), but NEVER for training Mr. New Guy Wanna Be.
As it turns out... Sport Aerobatics gets in the last word.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sorry, i'm going to take one more good whack at this horse then let it rest forever.
Here's an interesting bit:
"Post-crash Fire
Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality due
to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps. Intensive research
and development followed by installation of crashworthy fuel systems and
issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate in survivable aviation
rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%. "
- OPERATIONAL ARMY AVIATION MEDICINE - Chapter 26
Isn't google a wonderful thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14743#14743
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
support!
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Can anyone just scan it and include it on the list. Since I am not an sport aerobatics
subscriber.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil
writes:
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT AEROBATICS
Which month?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Great Idea Doc, somebody get busy so Doc and I can read it!
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
Can anyone just scan it and include it on the list. Since I am not an sport
aerobatics subscriber.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil
writes:
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT AEROBATICS
Which month?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 7
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| Subject: | Russina aero types, was tipping line personnel. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
I have flown the Yak 54, 55M, and the SP 91. I think the SP-91/E-3 is by far
the most effective aircraft. Add to that that it is convertible from single
seat to two seat in very little time. I now own an SP-91 not surprisingly it
flies a lot like a Sukhoi, hell it was designed by the same guys. It's roll
rate is awesome and has very good vertical penetration. I am impressed with
it on an MTV-3 but next year I am thinking of upgrading to the MTV-9, the
big one. It's not fast, it cruises about the same as a 52 but wow does it
know how to climb. I think there is still one for sale in Florida being sold
by Bill Dorris. Remember the old saying, courtesy of Cliff Coy, friends
don't let friends fly plastic airplanes, so I have a Sukhoi with metal wings
(Sorry Rick, only joking).
Alternatively there is the new Sukhoi 31 which to the best of my knowledge
does not really exist. Bang seats and everything for a mere $500,000 fitted
with the mythical M9F engine :))
That said If I win the lottery tonight I am right on the phone to get one.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cdustercc
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Tipping line personnel
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc" <craig@craftairservices.com>
Its a shame the yak 54 didn't get produced in large numbers. I've never
seen one but it has to be a great combination. It would definetely solve
your "tipping" problem. Where were folks like you when I was pumping gas
twenty years ago? My biggest tip was "hey kid, you missed a spot on my
windshield!"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18371#18371
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
I've emailed IAC to see if they can email me an electronic version of
the article or post it on IAC web site.
Steve
On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:33 AM, Michael Bolton wrote:
> Great Idea Doc, somebody get busy so Doc and I can read it!
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> Can anyone just scan it and include it on the list. Since I am not
> an sport aerobatics subscriber.
> Doc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil writes:
> ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
> AEROBATICS
> Which month?????
>
> Tom Elliott
> CJ-6 NX63727
> Sandy Valley NV
> 3L2
> 702-723-1223
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Take a look here http://www.beasafepilot.com/equipment.htm
<http://www.beasafepilot.com/equipment.htm> Spencer posts basically the
same information. He also, and I know I am going to regret this, but he also
tackles the flight helmet issue on the same page.
If the flight suits are the dead horse then the helmets are the
Hyracotherium (see picture).
Alternatively you could join IAC.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bolton
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
Great Idea Doc, somebody get busy so Doc and I can read it!
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com> Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
Can anyone just scan it and include it on the list. Since I am not an sport
aerobatics subscriber.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:N13472@aol.com>
Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil <mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
writes:
ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS
Which month?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7>
Take a look here <A
">http://www.beasafepilot.com/equipment.htmSpencer
posts basically the same information. He also, and I know I am going to regret
this, but he also tackles the flight helmet issue on the same page.
If the flight suits are
the dead horse then the helmets are the Hyracotherium (see
picture).
Alternatively you could
join IAC.
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Bolton
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:33 AM
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad
Habits?
Great Idea Doc, somebody get busy so Doc and I can read it!
Michael
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=viperdoc@mindspring.com ">Roger
Kemp
To: <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:26
AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad
Habits?
Can anyone just scan it and include it
on the list. Since I am not an sport aerobatics subscriber.
Doc
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=N13472@aol.com ">
To: <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad
Habits?
<FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000>
In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, <A
">BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil
writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000>ALL OF
YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
AEROBATICS
Which month?????
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley
NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
The flight suit portion of this piece is pretty much the same article
word for word.
Steve
On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> Take a look here http://www.beasafepilot.com/equipment.htm Spencer
> posts basically the same information. He also, and I know I am
> going to regret this, but he also tackles the flight helmet issue
> on the same page.
>
> If the flight suits are the dead horse then the helmets are the
> Hyracotherium (see picture).
>
> Alternatively you could join IAC.
>
> Gus
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bolton
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> Great Idea Doc, somebody get busy so Doc and I can read it!
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> Can anyone just scan it and include it on the list. Since I am not
> an sport aerobatics subscriber.
> Doc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: 2/27/2006 9:22:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits?
>
> In a message dated 2/27/2006 2:47:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil writes:
> ALL OF YOU "FLIGHT SUIT OR DIE" folks, GO READ THE ARTICLE IN SPORT
> AEROBATICS
> Which month?????
>
> Tom Elliott
> CJ-6 NX63727
> Sandy Valley NV
> 3L2
> 702-723-1223
> <DKMMNature-HorseEvolution01-Hyracotherium[1].gif>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Airshow Compensation and comm lic req. |
Folks,
I just got back from the National Warbird Operators Conference ('NWOC'), where
we had a FAST National BoD meeting (the RPA makes up one signatory and board
seat, all other warbird organizations who are FAST signatories make up the rest),
which was attended by Jeff Weller from the FAA in Wash DC. I spoke about
the compensation and commercial licensing issue with Jeff, who works in the general
av. and commercial division and is the FAA National Airshow Coordinator.
He is working closely with FAST National on several issues concerning formation
standardization (the national president is Mike Filucci by the way). This
issue of compensation effects every FAST pilot without a commercial ticket,
and effects the RPA (and volunteers who are setting up) RedStars mass formation
teams (see flyredstar.org 'airshow center'). I write the following with the
personal belief that this is strictly a compensation issue; the commercial ticket
does not reflect a qualitative differance in avi
ators
holding the FAST card, it is, in the end, simply a rule on the books dealing with
commercial services/compensation and thus having an appropriate commercial
rating - and it's my belief it is overly restrictive and has a negative effect
on the ability of FAST, and other approved formation certification bodies, to
support the airshow industry and the general public interest.
The following are his statements in response to my questions:
Q: Where do we find what is defined as compensation or catagories that may not
apply?
A: There are some compensation catagories that do not require a commercial license,
they are quite limited, they can be researched through FAR 91.500 (or)
501.
Q: How do we petition to gain a waiver/exemption/change to this regulation/rule?
A: No easy task, this would have to be taken up with general counsel (FAA legal
dept. chock full of Lawyers) in Washington DC.
Please note that Jeff is close to the puzzle palace and a good source of information,
but we are dealing with compensation issues, we have no idea if the FAA
rule is impacted by IRS regulations/rulings requiring their involvement! I
have no idea, and it shouldn't stop citizens from taking action regardless...
It wasn't a hopeful discussion, however, you have to start somewhere - now, our
current volunteers in the assoc. are loaded up, if someone effected by this
ruling would like to help, here is my suggestion.
1. Research the regulation and rule extensively, the best way to argue the merits
of your position is to have an equal command of that regulation as the does
the enforcer/interpreter. Jeff mentioned the details could be found in 91.500
or 501 which should be online - warning, I've never met a FSDO who could remember
every regulation, but take a look.
2. In requesting a waiver or rule change, be extremely specific, if its contractually
provided hotel rooms on the dates that FAST pilots performing formation
in waivered airspace and/or replacement of used aviation fuel in the process
of operating a US registered aircraft in waivered airspace during the airshow
or aerial event, then that should be clear, with clear limits; No other form
of compensation in lieu of ....can or will be accepted...you get the idea.
3. Author a letter to the FAST National Board of Directors through the RPA that
professionally lays out the issues and requests/proposed action (#2). The
RPA is an equal signatory to FAST National and a member of the Board and the letter
can be presented to all other board members for consideration and endorsement
- the idea being if their membership is negatively effected, we want the
endorsement of the entire FAST formation community that serves the US Airshow
Industry. If this had even a snowballs chance in hell, in my opinion it has
even less if it just shows up as a request from 60 pilots who fly imported eastern
block aircraft.
4. A waiver package/request for rule change (don't ask for more than they can
give, a waiver is an FAA word, a rule change is probably not in their vocabulary)
with the letter then heads to the FAA (General Counsel, Airshow Coordinator
and other parties in the FAA).
Of course, thats just presenting the issue and solution with some backing and
in a format the Legal Department (and other parties) would at least be pressed
to read/review - no doubt, someone would need to face to face or via phone meeting
emphasize the numbers of professionally FAST trained-qualified pilots,
and airshows, negatively effected by the current regulation/ruling and the merits
of such a waiver/rule change suggestion, etc.
These steps are just a suggestion, and I did not address this to the static displays.
I suspect someone has a very differant view on approaching the subject,
if you would like to contact the FAA in DC that's certainly your right;here's
the address:
800 Independance Ave. S.W.
Washington DC 20591
Hope this helps,
Drew
Drew Blahnick
President
RedStar Pilots Association
Time: 07:26:57 PM PST US
From: "Ron Davis" <L39parts@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
The exemption is for passengers to share expenses. IMHO the FAA is on
shaky legal
ground as far as compensation for static display. You don't need any
license
to own a plane and all of the FARs on commercial operations refer to
carrying
passengers or cargo for hire or a flight for hire (delivering a plane,
towing
a glider, etc).
Museums charge people to look at their planes. Does the person selling
the tickets
have commercial license? Does the guy who owns the museum? It started
out
to be a policy of not giving fuel to Private pilots who flew in the
show and
spiraled out of control to include sandwiches.
Sadly, my opinion doesn't count. You need to find a judge that feels
this way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Craft
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: compensation issue, my second last try.
I think I am missing something here. Isn't there an exemption for
"sharing expenses"?
How they can think that a sandwich and some gas is compensation is
beyond me. What do the airshow organizers put on your W-1099 form?
Three sandwiches,
two cokes, one room with a queen bed, thirty gallons of gas, use of one
lawn chair with shade, etc. Heck if the FAA is taking it that far, why
isn't
free admittance to an airshow compensation? Uh Oh, I probably shouldn't
have
typed that out loud. Did the FAA get into the airshow for free? Well
along
that line of reason, couldn't that be construed as accepting a bribe?
. Could
a properly informed administrator reverse the interpretation of the
regs?
Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Well, I read the article and it doesn't cite any studies - whereas the USAF states
the following:
"Prior to the early 1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality due
to post-crash fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps. Intensive research
and development followed by installation of crashworthy fuel systems and
issue of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate in survivable aviation
rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%."
Who do you trust more?
Furthermore the article seems to focus on a fuel-soaked flight suit from a fuel
tank rupture in the cockpit (in a Pitts or similar aircraft). In this case there
is no difference between nomex and cotton.
There is however a big difference in how they behave in a high temperature environment.
Ask any firefighter about that.
Bottom line is that you're better off with your $15 eBay nomex flight suit than
your $55 worth of cotton jeans and t-shirt.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18414#18414
Message 13
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| Subject: | Russian aero types |
Message 14
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| Subject: | T-6 water skiing |
Maybe, but I bet they wear wet suits with hero patches.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:07 AM
Subject: Yak-List: T-6 water skiing
Don't believe they are the first to try that. Think there are some Cub acts
around that have done this on the show circuits in the past.
Not exactly my cup of tea, but each to his own. They maybe the first to do
this in formation now.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 15
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| Subject: | Russian aero types |
Richard,
Thanks for the update what are the specs for the R engine ?
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Russian aero types
For today the new Su-31 does NOT exist. HOWEVER IF the French National Team
get political permission to buy Russian, then a new batch will be made.
The M9F is not mythical - it does exist, as demonstrated by the Russian
Team. However it is a bit difficult persuading the Russians to make them,
and at a sensible price. However we are almost there.
The M14R from Vedeneyev is coming out, albeit very slowly, and we are just
taking delivery of engine numbers six and seven.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
-
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Richard,
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thanks for the update what are the specs for the R engine
?
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:10 AM
USA LIST
Subject: Yak-List: Russian aero types
For today the new Su-31 does NOT
exist. HOWEVER IF the French National Team get political permission to
buy Russian, then a new batch will be made.
The M9F is not mythical - it does exist,
as demonstrated by the Russian Team. However it is a bit difficult
persuading the Russians to make them, and at a sensible price. However
we are almost there.
The M14R from Vedeneyev is coming out,
albeit very slowly, and we are just taking delivery of engine numbers six and
seven.
Richard Goode <FONT
face=3D"Bookman Old Style">
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds
Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768
610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
<A
">www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by
http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: T-6 water skiing |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ben Marsh wrote:
> Maybe, but I bet they wear wet suits with hero patches.
"Skiing" on tires is not all that uncommon. Turns out that bush pilots
use that technique to shorten their landing and takeoff run. If landing
on a short sand-bar they will do the initial touch down on water. Big
tundra tires ski well. They can slow substantially before they start to
sink. You just time your touch down so that you slow to minimum skiing
speed just as you reach the sand bar.
Likewise on take off they can get to skiing speed before they get to
flying speed. They start their take-off roll on the sandbar and finish
their take-off "roll" on the water.
There is a video out about bush flying that demonstrates this technique.
I have a couple of bush-pilot friends who pointed me at the video. They
have an example from the video on-line you can preview that shows this
very technique. My first reaction when I saw the super cub on final for
the water was, "you gotta be s------g me!"
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ah, found it. Here is the link to the video on bush flying with the
example of a super-cub landing on water using its tundra tires.
http://www.bigrockslongprops.com/
My father said that he used to do it in the SNJ, SBD, and later with the
F8F. He says that, at speed, it is almost impossible to get the tires to
sink into the water. I guess it is just like practicing wheel landings.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: water skiing |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cdustercc" <craig@craftairservices.com>
It sure is rough on a plane though. I ran an agtruck on water a few years ago
and you could see the wing flexing outboard of the strut attach point. The water
wasn't quite glassy but it wasn't what you would consider rough either. Other
planes might do better without the spring landing gear.
I saw a video similar to the one you described where the bush pilot would
land on water, fast taxi up to a sand bar and then cut the power right at the
shoreline. Those guys could land a supercub on about 100 feet of solid surface
like that. Then they would take off the same way!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18446#18446
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: water skiing |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
I've got some pics of the Wilga on frozen lake Winnebago this winter
- right off the end of 27 at OSH. I had never landed on the ice with
wheels before, just skis, so after several passes I touched the
mains, like a wheel landing but not enough to compress the trailing
shocks. If you know anything about Wilgas - they really are not
meant for wheel landings - they really are designed for 3 point
landings. I "drove" the Wilga about a mile on the ice with the
tailwheel up and the trailing link mains extended - quite fun and
very stable. Of course you can keep your direction into the wind
which was about 25 knots that day. Groundspeed with full flaps was
about 35 knots. I'll try to get the pic's scanned into the
computer. It was fun and all the ice sailors and sturgeon fisherman
seemed to enjoy it !!
I must admit I would not do it on "soft" water !! But can see the
technique being quite the same and not too difficult.
I have also seen the supercubs landed that way. In fact during OSH
last year I spent half a day with the Wilga and a flight of 8
supercubs flying up Door County on the Lake Michigan side going to
Washington Island. They spend quite amount of time enjoying the
water and the sand bars - a few of these guys touch on the water
first. The supercubs base at NewHolstein - between MTW and OSH -
they also party like crazy and have a nice group of guys. They like
Yaks alot. Maybe a combined cook out next year ? Any thoughts ?
I also have some cockpit video of Sergei "critiquing" my flight, I am
editing it down to a managable size for web posting and he just
emailed me to OK it. You'll enjoy and with some of the discussion
lately about bad habits it will convince you to get some instruction
with a pro. I plan on having him come to MTW/OSH again this year.
Herb
On Feb 28, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Ah, found it. Here is the link to the video on bush flying with the
> example of a super-cub landing on water using its tundra tires.
>
> http://www.bigrockslongprops.com/
>
> My father said that he used to do it in the SNJ, SBD, and later
> with the
> F8F. He says that, at speed, it is almost impossible to get the
> tires to
> sink into the water. I guess it is just like practicing wheel
> landings.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
> things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | T-6 water skiing |
And big watches too!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Marsh
Sent: 2/28/2006 9:35:56 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: T-6 water skiing
Maybe, but I bet they wear wet suits with hero patches.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:07 AM
Subject: Yak-List: T-6 water skiing
Don't believe they are the first to try that. Think there are some Cub acts around
that have done this on the show circuits in the past.
Not exactly my cup of tea, but each to his own. They maybe the first to do this
in formation now.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
Aint no sound like a Radial
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Herb and Others -
The water landing clips are great - when I really learn how to fly I'd like
to try that! Please post the pics and any clips you have.
I've been appeasing the masses here on the east coast giving rides in the
Wilga - everyone wants a ride in the flying grasshopper.
I didn't realize until recently that the AI-14 was the original engine (or
some variant) in the CJ's. That explains why we were able to get a new air
distribution valve from Doug. I also flew one with an M-14P conversion -
talk about climb - what fun.
Reade
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Tipping line personnel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
As a former line guy (awesome learning experience), I can attest to the effects
of a tip. It will get you a long way when the day comes when you really need
some help that line is not normally not supposed to do..and at all hours.
Rides are cool and a very welcome gesture (MiG, T-33, P-51, T-6, T-28, Stearman,
TS-ll...just to name a few airplanes I flew in while line) but some folks just
like working unique airplanes. Since you have a single holer, slip them a few
bucks or buy them dinner while they are working. Just let them know you appreciate
their efforts!
There are some real tools out there who roll up in their airplanes, hop out and
say "Dont touch it". Those guys what they gave. We would treat them like they
were just a regular run of the mill airplane (which were still worthy of our
efforts), but to these guys, since they were flying cool iron, the thought people
would trip over themselves. When we did not, it drove them nuts.
I have tons of people wanting to help me with the -50, because the think it is
cool which I think is cool. Plus it lets people know that these really are great
airplanes and not "Russian Junk". I take care of those who take care of me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18517#18517
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Desert Tan Flight Suits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Barry,
The USAF, USMC, and the Navy have tons of them!! Only thing is you have to join
to get one.
What size are you looking for? I can ask our life support folks.
Tim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18518#18518
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
Ok... I'm an idiot. Just thought I would save everyone else the trouble of
saying so.
Scooter, ("Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>) said:
Scooter: Well, I read the article and it doesn't cite any studies -
mgb replies: Excuse me, it cited studies that gave the specific safety
rating of every single type of material used, and how long they would
prevent a person from receiving a second degree burn. It showed how the
degree of fire protection could be vastly increased by the use of modern day
and available materials.
Scooter says: whereas the USAF states the following: "Prior to the early
1970's, there was a 40% thermal morbidity and mortality due to post-crash
fire in otherwise survivable rotary-wing mishaps. Intensive research and
development followed by installation of crashworthy fuel systems and issue
of Nomex clothing has reduced the thermal injury rate in survivable aviation
rotary-wing mishaps to nearly 0%."\
mgb replies: First, I do not fly a helicopter. And excuse my sarcasm, but I
am not aware of anyone on this list that owns a YAK or CJ helicopter.
Scooter says: Who do you trust more?
mgb replies: I trust the most recent article that discusses the best method
of protecting myself in the type of aircraft I fly. I also admit that I
never put blanket trust in anyone or anything, least of all articles written
by the Air Force that discuss findings from rotary wing accidents, when I am
not flying a rotary wing aircraft.
Scooter says: Furthermore the article seems to focus on a fuel-soaked flight
suit from a fuel tank rupture in the cockpit (in a Pitts or similar
aircraft). In this case there is no difference between nomex and cotton.
mgb replies: You took the words right out of my mouth. I do fly an
aircraft with the fuel directly between my legs. Thus, I am concerned about
the difference between urban legend and real world situations identical to
the ones I experience.
Scooter says: There is however a big difference in how they behave in a
high temperature environment. Ask any firefighter about that.
mgb replies: I am not fighting fires. I am not a firefighter. Thus I do
not need to ask them anything. If the need for protection from heat becomes
a factor in my airplane, it is not because the cockpit heating system "ran
away". The YAK-50 does not even have cockpit heat. Instead it is because
there is a source of heat from fire. If there is a fire, there is a 99%
chance that it is coming from fuel.. which is flowing all over me.
Scooter says: Bottom line is that you're better off with your $15 eBay nomex
flight suit than your $55 worth of cotton jeans and t-shirt.
mgb replies: It amazes me how the price of Nomex Flight Suits are
continuing to drop on ebay as this whole discussion continues. Scooter,
find me a flight suit on EBAY that fits me for $15, and I will pay you
$150... and you can keep the difference. That's a public statement and you
have my word on it. Let me know when you need my measurements.
And... my bottom line is that you are actually wrong. My $55 cotton jeans
and tea-shirt will protect me just as well as a Nomex Flight Suit from 30
gallons of fuel that burst into flame in my cockpit. My jeans and tea-shirt
will also go a lot further to prevent thermal stress and dehydration.
And the only bottom line that really matters: You and I and everyone else
will continue to wear whatever we want when flying our own airplanes in
these United States of America, and I think that is a good thing. It is
not my place OR YOURS, or ANYONE ELSE'S to point fingers at other people and
imply they are less intelligent than the next guy or gal when it comes to
what they wear when flying their own airplane.
I will continue to reject any person or organization that tries to impose
their will upon me (or anyone else) and then excuse their own behavior in
the name of "safety", when legitimate direct published examples prove
otherwise.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Desert Tan Flight Suits |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yep, Ol' Bdogg could use some military indoctrination/ experience in his
life. I can put him in touch with the ANG recruiters in Lower California.
May even be able to get him in the Ca Guard in Jimmy Stuart's old outfit.
I'm sure Drew has tried to recruit him. Just need to keep hitting him up.
The perks, he gets access to his own Nomex flight suits assuming of
course....
Sorry, Bdogg, all mine are spoken for...something about Sandbox III.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/28/2006 3:46:55 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Desert Tan Flight Suits
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> The USAF, USMC, and the Navy have tons of them!! Only thing is you have
to join to get one.
>
> What size are you looking for? I can ask our life support folks.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18518#18518
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | FW: toilet cleaning instructions for the dead horse |
Subject: toilet cleaning instructions
Ok, the flight suit issue/dead horse is crawling out of the hole we need something
to smile about. So here is how we clean the toilet with this topic!
Doc
Note the pictures at the end.
Toilet Cleaning Instructions:
1. Put both lids of the toilet up and add 1/8 cup of pet shampoo to the water in
the bowl.
2. Pick up the cat and soothe him while you carry him towards the bathroom.
3. In one smooth movement, put the cat in the toilet and close both lids.
You may need to stand on the lid.
4. The cat will self agitate and make ample suds. Never mind the noises that come
from the toilet, the cat is actually enjoying this.
5. Flush the toilet three or four times. This provides a "power-wash" and "rinse".
6. Have someone open the front door of your home. Be sure that there are no people
between the bathroom and the front door.
7. Stand behind the toilet as far as you can, and quickly lift both lids.
8. The cat will rocket out of the toilet, streak through the bathroom, and run
outside where he will dry himself off.
9. Both the commode and the cat will be sparkling clean.
Sincerely,
The Dog
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A overvoltage module |
In a message dated 2/28/06 12:24:04 AM, brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
> I hope to get it installed in=A0
> Blitz's airplane soon. (Blitz: when's a good time?)
>
This week looks bad weatherwise. Let's try Thursday 3/9 or Friday 3/10. The
following Thursday it's off to Desert Thunder, Barry Hancock's and the San
Diego Escadrille's event which cannot be missed. Why? Because I've promised=20Buck
Bender that this year I will not (a) become separated from my wingman, nor (b)
again wander blindly into NAF El Centro's restricted airspace. If for no
other reason, it's too expensive at the bar. ...Blitz
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 Bad Habits? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Hey, this is fun. I can't help but envision RPA events divided into two groups
of combatants. Little guys in nomex fighting big guys in "tea shirts" (whatever
they are) who are ripping off their patches and trying to light their nomex
on fire. :)
First off, I read the article in the link that was posted which gave no evidence
supporting his assertion that nomex and cotton gave equal protection. He seems
to think that the only post crash fire scenario involves a fuel-soaked pilot.
This is just not the case. It's not the case in aircraft or in helicopters.
It's more likely in a Yak-50, etc. so why don't we just forget about them
and focus on Yak-52's and CJ6's? A Yak-50 pilot should probably wear additional
protection like Gus in his Sukhoi.
Second, your cotton clothing is going to ignite at 482 degrees. In a post crash
fire (that doesn't engulf you) it might take you a few seconds to get away from
the heat source. You will burst into flames at 482 degrees whereas the guy
in the nomex (with patches and cute nametag) will not. Seems simple to me.
Of course, there are a million scenarios. But if it works for the armed services
then it works for me. And in the interest of promoting safety I don't think
we should belittle pilots who wear flight suits - or trash organizations that
enforce the wearing of flight suits. As much as you hate to admit it a bunch
of PHDs and statisticians working for Uncle Sam say it's a good thing. If you
can prove otherwise then I'll accept it. If you can't then I won't. We're
not top gun wannabes; we just don't want to burst into flame at 482 degrees.
There are a bunch of flight suits on ebay for cheap for any of you that want them.
Search on "Flight suit". You can get a decent used suit for $10 to $15 (might
have an ink stain or a rip) - $40 for a premium suit. The trick is to start
bidding about ten seconds before the auction ends.
Now, let's be friends, I never called anyone an idiot.
BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi wrote:
> Ok... I'm an idiot. Just thought I would save everyone else the trouble of saying
so.
> Scooter, ("Scooter" ) said:
> en legitimate direct published examples prove otherwise. [/b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18540#18540
Message 29
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| Subject: | Flight Suit Discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
--> Responded to by: "Mark Bitterlich" <bitterlichmg@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>Hey, this is fun. I can't help but envision RPA events divided into two
groups of combatants.
>Little guys in nomex fighting big guys in "tea shirts" (whatever they are)
who are ripping off
>their patches and trying to light their nomex on fire. :)
What you do at RPA events is obviously your business and not mine. Not one
comment I have ever made was directed at an RPA "event".
>First off, I read the article in the link that was posted which gave no
evidence supporting his assertion that
>nomex and cotton gave equal protection.
His comment was based on situations where the wearer was covered in fuel and
where the flight suit acted as a sponge for that fuel. I have experienced
that effect myself, haven't you?
>He seems to think that the only post crash fire scenario involves a
fuel-soaked pilot.
>This is just not the case. It's not the case in aircraft or in
helicopters.
>It's more likely in a Yak-50, etc.
>so why don't we just forget about them and focus on Yak-52's and CJ6's?
Because I fly a YAK-50. That to me is a darn good reason. Because I have
been covered in fuel in flight. That's an even better reason. Because the
Sukhoi 26 and the Sukhoi 31 fall into the same category as well (among
others).
>A Yak-50 pilot should probably wear additional protection like Gus in his
Sukhoi.
Good suggestion.
>Second, your cotton clothing is going to ignite at 482 degrees. In a post
crash fire (that doesn't engulf you)
Excuse me. How am I going to be in a post crash fire that does not engulf
me?
>it might take you a few seconds to get away from the heat source.
NOMEX will give me 3 seconds. Cottom clothing about 1.5 In just the exact
right circumstance... if you ignore odds and statistics and put all your
marbles into one very unlikely set of circumstances (at least in MY
AIRPLANE).. you could be right.
>You will burst into flames at 482 degrees whereas the guy in the nomex
(with patches and cute nametag) will not.
>Seems simple to me.
Ok.. I am not going to debate perspective.
>Of course, there are a million scenarios.
And therein lies the full truth of the matter.
>But if it works for the armed services then it works for me.
I became a Marine in 1969, and have served in every war from them until now.
I retired in 1990 and continued to serve as a civilian. So.. that's about
36 years and counting. The reason for mentioning the above is very simple.
Over that whole period of time the one thing I have learned is to NEVER
trust what ANYONE in the Govt. says is "good for me", but to ALWAYS look for
a better answer. I mean no personal slight, but I would suggest that you
reconsider your opinion in that regard. What "works" for the Armed Services
is usually a matter of money, and rarely a matter of what is best.
>And in the interest of promoting safety I don't think we should belittle
pilots who wear flight suits
> - or trash organizations that enforce the wearing of flight suits.
I agree completely. I only belittle organizations that require flight suits
to obtain TRAINING by NON-MEMBERS.
>As much as you hate to admit it a bunch of PHDs and statisticians working
for Uncle Sam say it's a good thing.
As much as you may hate to admit it, people who care enough about their own
lives to spend their own money on finding out what is best have found out
that it (Nomex alone) does very very little and there is a lot better out
there if SAFETY is really your main concern. I know a lot of PhD's and
statisticians that work for Uncle Sam up close and personal. I'll follow
the lead of NASCAR drivers every time over those folks.
>If you can prove otherwise then I'll accept it. If you can't then I won't.
>We're not top gun wannabes; we just don't want to burst into flame at 482
degrees.
I don't have to prove anything, and I am not trying to get you to change
YOUR habits. Wear what you want, but don't sit there and deny safety of
flight training to people because they did not bring a flight suit to a
training event.
Riddle me this:
What are the chances of your flight suit saving you from injury while
performing formation flight?
Now... what are the chances of untrained pilots having an accident by trying
to learn formation flight on their own, with no one helping them avoid the
hazards?
>There are a bunch of flight suits on ebay for cheap for any of you that
want them. Search on "Flight suit".
>You can get a decent used suit for $10 to $15 (might have an ink stain or a
rip) - $40 for a premium suit.
>The trick is to start bidding about ten seconds before the auction ends.
Scooter.... my previous offer stands. I'll sweeten the pot. You find me
ANY military flight suit on EBAY that fits, and I will pay you TWO HUNDRED
dollars. I admit... it's a trick. I am so big that you simply will never
find one that fits. It has to be custom made. Sorry... that was unfair of
me I guess.
>Now, let's be friends, I never called anyone an idiot.
In case there was any confusion... I sincerely apologize... I was calling
MYSELF an idiot. Not you!
I am sure others will agree with my self-description for continuing to
discuss this issue. Of course we're friends... I would never think
otherwise.
Mark
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A overvoltage module |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
ByronMFox@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/28/06 12:24:04 AM, brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
>
>
>> I hope to get it installed in
>> Blitz's airplane soon. (Blitz: when's a good time?)
>
>
> This week looks bad weatherwise. Let's try Thursday 3/9 or Friday 3/10.
> The following Thursday it's off to Desert Thunder, Barry Hancock's and
> the San Diego Escadrille's event which cannot be missed. Why? Because
> I've promised Buck Bender that this year I will not (a) become separated
> from my wingman, nor (b) again wander blindly into NAF El Centro's
> restricted airspace. If for no other reason, it's too expensive at the
> bar. ...Blitz
Gotcha. Sounds good.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-6A Model Kit Source |
It's $29.95 at Great Models webstore.
http://www.greatmodels.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
To: MFilucci@aol.com ; yak-list@matronics. com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:13 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6A Model Kit Source
Here is the website to order a CJ-6A Plastic Model kit...I was incorrect
in the price...it is $39.95 from this source...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=3DTSM2240
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh/
With Val's CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
-------Original Message-------
From: MFilucci@aol.com
Date: 02/28/06 06:52:14
To: jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Subject: website
Jeff,
What is the address of the Horizon website you mentioned with regard to
the CJ model?
Mike
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A overvoltage module |
Blitz,
Try a Garmin 295 or better yet a 396 handheld. It has all the bells and whistles.
It will tell you when you are about to or have stepped in it. In the Yak, I
just used a RAM strap mount and mounted it to that ugly ventilation hose. Sits
right in front of the flat faced air deflector putting a gps navigation instrument
in easy eyesight. It puts a useful instrument between the legs and the
brake on the stick clears it easily.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 2/28/2006 4:34:16 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6A overvoltage module
In a message dated 2/28/06 12:24:04 AM, brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
I hope to get it installed in
Blitz's airplane soon. (Blitz: when's a good time?)
This week looks bad weatherwise. Let's try Thursday 3/9 or Friday 3/10. The following
Thursday it's off to Desert Thunder, Barry Hancock's and the San Diego
Escadrille's event which cannot be missed. Why? Because I've promised Buck Bender
that this year I will not (a) become separated from my wingman, nor (b) again
wander blindly into NAF El Centro's restricted airspace. If for no other
reason, it's too expensive at the bar. ...Blitz
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