Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:06 AM - Re: Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) (Hans Oortman)
2. 04:09 AM - SNF Training and Arrival (Craig Payne)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) (Brian Lloyd)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) (Brian Lloyd)
6. 06:52 AM - English Language (Kevin Pilling)
7. 07:15 AM - Re: English Language (Brian Lloyd)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: English Language (Fraser, Gus)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: Cedar Key (forrest johnson)
10. 08:59 AM - Re: Cedar Key (David McGirt)
11. 09:03 AM - Formation knee cards (David McGirt)
12. 10:00 AM - Re: Max X-wind (Valkyre1)
13. 10:32 AM - Re: Max X-wind (Fraser, Gus)
14. 11:12 AM - Re: Formation knee cards (Roger Kemp)
15. 12:13 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20Max=20X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com (ByronMFox@aol.com)
16. 12:33 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:32:38 -0600 (ROBERT SCHWARTZ)
17. 12:48 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:48:06 -0500 (Fraser, Gus)
18. 12:51 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:51:08 -0500 (Genzlinger, Reade)
19. 02:17 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 03/27/06 (susanne Romaine)
20. 03:18 PM - Radios (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
21. 03:42 PM - Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
22. 04:02 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:02:09 -0600 (A. Dennis Savarese)
23. 05:45 PM - Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
24. 05:46 PM - Re: Radios (Brian Lloyd)
25. 05:49 PM - Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
26. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Max X-wind (Craig Payne)
27. 06:14 PM - Re: Radios (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
28. 06:15 PM - Re: Max X-wind (A. Dennis Savarese)
29. 06:19 PM - Re: Max X-wind (A. Dennis Savarese)
30. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Re: Max X-wind (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
31. 06:27 PM - Re: Radios (Brian Lloyd)
32. 06:35 PM - Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
33. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
34. 07:59 PM - You've seen the stills. Here's the movies (ByronMFox@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) |
OhOh, the worst breed there is,...Yak pilot AND ham..
Hans
Yak pilot AND ham
Pa3arw
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens John W. Cox
Verzonden: woensdag 29 maart 2006 4:31
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: RE: Yak-List: Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads)
Mark, as a fellow ham W7COX the idea of a pigtail to adapt improved coax to
the existing avionics in a classic aircraft is a great idea but isn't there
a clearly known Db loss with the addition of a male and female connector to
complete the task?
John Cox
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads)
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>Heck, if you want real performance you might want to look at LMR-195. ;-)
Mark Bitterlich Replies:
Aw heck, let's go with Inch and 5/8 Heliax where the connectors alone cost
$250 ... each! And, let's use a nitrogen/air dielectric so we can REALLY
get that velocity factor up there! (When are you going to suggest a
balanced line?)
>And I am certain that we have gone way beyond what anyone else cares
>about. ;-)
Yes, obviously we both know a fair amount about coaxial transmission lines.
It is also obvious that we are both ham radio operators. I wonder how many
more are out there?
Mark
WA3JPY
Message 2
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| Subject: | SNF Training and Arrival |
While there is no RPA formation training this weekend before Sun 'n Fun, the NATA
group will have a clinic in Arcadia (X06) on Friday/Saturday, then fly up to
Sebring (SEF) on Sunday. On Monday, the assembled group will fly up to Lakeland
for the Warbird arrival.
Last year the RPA flew in about 2 hours before NATA and grabbed the local front
page. Not I'm not suggesting that the Cedar Key flight arrive before lunch,
but ....
About 3 Yaks/CJs participated in the NATA clinic last year and 2 guys got wing
patches. This year I'm flying down on Friday and Sunday to help out with Yak/CJ
training so newly minted wingies don't fly their Yaks like a gaggle of T-6's.
Anyone else needing a formation "tune-up" are welcome to drop in. I could use
some help from you other Leads & Check Pilots for sure. Contact me off list
please.
Craig Payne
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) |
RE: Yak-List: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads)Sounds to me like Mark's suggestion
of replacing the antenna, (which I completely agree with), with a off-the-shelf
VHF antenna would not only resolve the radio problem, but would also shut
down this thread. -) Personally, I like the KISS method of resolving problems.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads)
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>Antenna impedance is a function of physics, not nationality. If the
>Russian antenna is a whip type (1/4 wave monopole -- about 24" long) it
>will have an impedance of about 35 ohms and will work just fine when fed
>with RG-142 (50 ohms).
It does. Been there and done that. I also removed the matching circuit that
was in mine, and noticed no change to the VSWR across the range. The best idea
though is to replace it (the Russian antenna) with something like a COMINT
version. I personally like the one that combines a GPS antenna with a VHF Com
antenna. You can expect below a 2:1 VSWR across the whole aircraft VHF spectrum
with one of these. You'll see them used on the newer Sukhoi's.
>Dennis' suggestion of using a VSWR meter is a good one. If you use that,
>check the VSWR at the bottom (118 MHz), center (127 MHz), and top (136
>MHz) of the band. VSWR should be under 3:1 across the band. A VSWR of
>1:1 is perfect but a VSWR of up to 3:1 is acceptable.
I concur...Great suggestion(s). The problem is in finding a fairly accurate
VSWR meter for the 108 to 138 Mhz. range. That one you have laying around for
the ole CB radio is not up to the task. That leaves using a wattmeter and checking
for forward and reflected power and then applying the formula: SWR =3D (1+(SQR(PR/PF)))
/ (1-(SQR(PR/PF))) But then, finding a good wattmeter is not an
easy task either. My Bird 4410 kit was $1800.
A great solution here is to purchase a good antenna analyzer such as the MFJ
series. Expect to pay between $150 to $250 dollars. That may sound like a lot,
but consider this. These devices will check coax, connectors, filters, ...
well, pretty much everything from 1-170 Mhz. What is even better about them is
that you don't need to have the radio connected and you do not need to "transmit"
on your radio to make measurements. Now $250 might seem like a LOT of money.
But think carefully... how many people need to make tests on their aircraft
antenna system because they think something might not be just right? How
much does an Avionics Facility charge for such a test? I use mine for a lot
more than aircraft radios, but taking it to the airport was where I used it enough
to buy the next best model within a year. The Avionics Shop folks are pretty
much unaware of this product.. and you can really put them to shame in short
order with this puppy.
There are other companies that make them, but the MFJ versions seem to work well
for me. Here is some product information for the $250 model.. and no, I do
not own stock in this company, but sure wish that I did. Realize that 99% of
what this thing can do, are things you will probably never use. Just checking
aircraft antennas alone paid for mine.
The World's most popular SWR/RF analyzer just got incredibly better and gives
you more value than ever!
MFJ-259B gives you a complete pictures of your antenna's performance. You can
read antenna SWR and Complex Impedance 1.8 to 170MHz
Read Complex Impedance as series resistance and reactance (R+jX) or as magnitude
(Z) and phase (degrees). You can determine velocity factor, coax cable loss
in dB, length of coax and distance to a short or open in feet. You can read
SWR, return loss and reflection coefficient at any frequency simultaneously at
a single glance. Also read inductance in UH and capacitance in pF at RF frequencies.
Large easy-to-read two line LCD screen and side-by-side meters clearly
display your information. Built-in frequency counter, Ni-Cad charger circuit,
battery saver, low battery warning and smooth re-duction drive tuning and much
more. Super easy to use! Just set the bandswitch and tune the dial -- just like
you transceiver. SWR and Complex Impedance are displayed instantly!
Here's what you can do
Find your antenna's true resonant frequency. Trim dipoles and verticals.
Adjust your Yagi, quad, loop and other antennas, change antenna spacing and height
and watch SWR, resistance and reactance change instantly. You'll know exactly
what to do by simply watching the display. Perfectly tune critical HF mobile
antennas in seconds for super DX -- without subjecting your transceiver to
high SWR. Measure your antenna's 2:1 SWR bandwidth on one band, or analyze multiband
performance from 1.8 to 170Mhz! Check SWR outside the ham bands without
violating FCC rules. Take the guesswork out of building and adjusting matching
networks and baluns. Measure distance in feet to a short or open in faulty
coax. Measure length of a roll of coax, coax loss, velocity factor, impedance.
Measure inductance and capacitance. measure resonant frequency and approximate
Q of traps, stubs, transmission lines, RF chokes, tuned circuits and baluns.
Adjust your antenna tuner for a perfect 1:1 match without creating QRM. And
this is only the beginning! the MFJ-259B is a complete ham radio test station
including -- frequency counter, RF signal generator, SWR Analyzer, RF resistance
and Reactance Analyzer, Coax Analyzer, Capacitance and Inductance Meter and
more!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Hans Oortman wrote:
> OhOh, the worst breed there is,..Yak pilot AND ham
Wow, that makes at least four of us! The radios in our airplanes had
better work perfectly, eh? We need some kind of joke about Yak-ing in
the air and Yak-ing on the air.
English is such a silly language. :-)
> Hans
>
> Yak pilot AND ham
>
> Pa3arw
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN (extra)
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)
+1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Sounds to me like Mark's suggestion of replacing the antenna, (which I
> completely agree with), with a off-the-shelf VHF antenna would not only
> resolve the radio problem, but would also shut down this thread. -)
> Personally, I like the KISS method of resolving problems.
Mounting a new antenna strikes me as a more complex solution than just
crafting an adapter cable on the bench. It would take me about 5 minutes
to create the adapter cable and more than that to remove the old antenna
and install a new one. (Actually, it would take longer than 5 minutes
because the soldering iron would have to warm up.)
While perhaps less of an issue for people with Yak-52s, there may be
some who want to maintain the lines of their CJ6A by using the stock
Chinese antenna. This certainly applies to them too.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 6
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| Subject: | English Language |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Silly maybe........but also very clever..
In what other language can you do this..............
"First we chop the trees down and then we chop the trees up !"
That's clever !
kp
>
> English is such a silly language. :-)
>
>> Hans
>>
>> Yak pilot AND ham
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: English Language |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Kevin Pilling wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Silly maybe........but also very clever..
>
> In what other language can you do this..............
>
> "First we chop the trees down and then we chop the trees up !"
>
> That's clever !
Yes, it is very flexible and wonderful for making puns and double
entendres.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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| Subject: | English Language |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Yes and you can be reading a book in Reading.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Pilling
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Yak-List: English Language
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling"
--> <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Silly maybe........but also very clever..
In what other language can you do this..............
"First we chop the trees down and then we chop the trees up !"
That's clever !
kp
>
> English is such a silly language. :-)
>
>> Hans
>>
>> Yak pilot AND ham
>>
Message 9
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Will arrive Sat afternoon 1 to2pm. Forrest
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Cedar Key
All,
The list of people coming to Cedar Key the weekend before Sun-n-Fun seems to
be growing even more.. Looks like we will have ~ 9-10 airplanes there now.
If you are definitely coming to Cedar Key, could you please email me off list,
so we can make sure we know about everyone. We are hoping to get some better
fuel prices over that was if possible if we know how many we have..
The list I have so far: (excluding better half's)
Robert Langford
Bill Walker
David McGirt
Tim Williams
BJ Kennamore
Shane Golden?
Terry Callaway
Terry's wingman
Jimmy Fordham
Who am I missing?
David
Message 10
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Love to have you, also - did you see the FAST training that Craig posted as
well?
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of forrest johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cedar Key
Will arrive Sat afternoon 1 to2pm. Forrest
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Cedar Key
All,
The list of people coming to Cedar Key the weekend before Sun-n-Fun seems
to be growing even more.. Looks like we will have ~ 9-10 airplanes there
now. If you are definitely coming to Cedar Key, could you please email me
off list, so we can make sure we know about everyone. We are hoping to get
some better fuel prices over that was if possible if we know how many we
have..
The list I have so far: (excluding better half's)
Robert Langford
Bill Walker
David McGirt
Tim Williams
BJ Kennamore
Shane Golden?
Terry Callaway
Terry's wingman
Jimmy Fordham
Who am I missing?
David
Message 11
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| Subject: | Formation knee cards |
I have seen several flavors of "FAST" kneeboard cards with the blanks and
forms to be filled in during a briefing.. can some one email me there latest
versions?
I know about is one.. but I have seen better ones out there..
http://www.flyredstar.org/Documents/FAST/RPA_FAST_Knee_Board2.pdf
Message 12
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Hey guys,
Silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum crosswind/tailwind component
for a CJ6? - Val
Message 13
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Not sure but for a Yak 52 it is
CROSSWIND
Maximum crosswind component 6m/sec (12kt)
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valkyre1
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
Hey guys,
Silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum crosswind/tailwind
component for a CJ6? - Val
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Not sure but for a Yak 52 it is
CROSSWIND
Maximum crosswind component
6m/sec (12kt)
<SPAN
class=911383118-29032006><FONT
size=2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valkyre1
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:59 PM
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max
X-wind
Hey guys,
Silly question, but does anyone know the official
maximum crosswind/tailwind component for a CJ6? -
Val
Message 14
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| Subject: | Formation knee cards |
Talon,
Have to go to another computer in my office to get them. They are what I bastardized
from the squadron and adapted for Red Air.
Will send it in a little bit.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt
Sent: 3/29/2006 11:10:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Formation knee cards
I have seen several flavors of FAST kneeboard cards with the blanks and forms to
be filled in during a briefing.. can some one email me there latest versions?
I know about is one.. but I have seen better ones out there..
http://www.flyredstar.org/Documents/FAST/RPA_FAST_Knee_Board2.pdf
Message 15
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I'm not sure either, Val. At Gnoss Field, infamous for its summer afternoon
90 degree cross, where Dave King, John Zecherle and I are based we seem to run
out of rudder in our CJs around 17 -- 18 knots.
Brian Lloyd will know....... ...Blitz
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Yak-List:=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:32:38 |
-0600
does the larger rudder mod for Yak 52, allow for a greater crosswind component??
Bob Schwartz
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
This information is intended for the use of individual named above. If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the content of this
information is strictly prohibited.
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
I'm not sure either, Val. At Gnoss Field, infamous for its summer afternoon 90
degree cross, where Dave King, John Zecherle and I are based we seem to run
out of rudder in our CJs around 17 -- 18 knots.
Brian Lloyd will know....... ...Blitz
Message 17
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| Subject: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 |
Mar 2006 15:48:06 -0500
Not sure but I bet putting caster wheels on the wing tips would help :))
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT SCHWARTZ
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
does the larger rudder mod for Yak 52, allow for a greater crosswind
component??
Bob Schwartz
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
<mailto:schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net>
This information is intended for the use of individual named above. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the
content of this information is strictly prohibited.
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com <mailto:ByronMFox@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
I'm not sure either, Val. At Gnoss Field, infamous for its summer afternoon
90 degree cross, where Dave King, John Zecherle and I are based we seem to
run out of rudder in our CJs around 17 -- 18 knots.
Brian Lloyd will know....... ...Blitz
Message 18
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| Subject: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 |
Mar 2006 15:51:08 -0500
_____
From: ROBERT SCHWARTZ [mailto:schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
{SPAM?} Header
does the larger rudder mod for Yak 52, allow for a greater crosswind
component??
[Genzlinger, Reade]
Great question - Just a week ago I landed a 52 in 90 degree crosswind at 18
knots steady and had full right rudder in. Never done that before - but it
was very stable and I was still able to keep the upwind wing low. Not sure
I would try it in gusting conditions.
Reade
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 03/27/06 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "susanne Romaine" <susiecr@worldnet.att.net>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:58 AM
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Message 20
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If there are any ham/pilots out there, I'd recommend looking around for the
ARC-182 radio. They are becoming more and more common on the marketplace (I
own 3). They cover the standard VHF civil aeronautical band, plus the
military 225-399.975 Mhz band, plus 6 meter and 2 meter FM. All in one
radio. In fact, they also cover the Maritime Mobile Band.. and MORE. A lot
of which is not legal to use, but a lot that is ..... with the right
license.
Mark Bitterlich
wa3jpy/N50yk
Message 21
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| Subject: | Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads) |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Antenna impedance (was: HT Leads)
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> Sounds to me like Mark's suggestion of replacing the antenna, (which I
>> completely agree with), with a off-the-shelf VHF antenna would not only
>> resolve the radio problem, but would also shut down this thread. -)
>> Personally, I like the KISS method of resolving problems.
Brian Lloyd replied:
>Mounting a new antenna strikes me as a more complex solution than just
>crafting an adapter cable on the bench. It would take me about 5 minutes
>to create the adapter cable and more than that to remove the old antenna
>and install a new one. (Actually, it would take longer than 5 minutes
>because the soldering iron would have to warm up.)
>While perhaps less of an issue for people with Yak-52s, there may be
>some who want to maintain the lines of their CJ6A by using the stock
>Chinese antenna. This certainly applies to them too.
Mark Bitterlich adds:
Complexity can also be a matter of perspective. While it might seem complex
to make a new mounting plate, drilling it to match the bulb-angle or metal
doubler in the aircraft, and then mounting a new COMINT (for example)
antenna to it, it also means that you are never going to have a connector
fail that you can not find a replacement for, I.E. you can replace
EVERYTHING with commonly available material, and in a hurry AND and away
from home on a cross country.
In my mind, the more things that are commonly broken or "used up" on our
aircraft (and IMHO radios and antennas fall directly into that catagory)that
we can replace with American or "locally procurable" items when they fail,
the less complex it makes it to maintain the aircraft in the future.
Take for example.... spark plug wires. Putting in Taylor 8mm automotive
racing wires really tends to ruin the neat and overall contained appearance
of the engine when viewed up close. Of course they work better, last
longer, and are easier to repair from locally available material... but ...
what the heck, some people want to maintain the lines of their engines too,
and to them I wish... good luck and God Speed with that Russian insulated
wire in a contained metal ring that is a nightmare to work on. After all,
it is much more complex to yank out the whole ignition harness and relace
it, rather than just threading one new wire through the ring. Right?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: ?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Yak-List:=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:02:09 |
-0600
Although the book says 12 knots on the 52, I have made crosswind landings with
a direct, 90 degree crosswind blowing steadily at approximately 16-17 knots and
did not run out of rudder.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ROBERT SCHWARTZ
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
does the larger rudder mod for Yak 52, allow for a greater crosswind component??
Bob Schwartz
Email: schwartzcompany@worldnet.att.net
This information is intended for the use of individual named above. If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the content of
this information is strictly prohibited.
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
I'm not sure either, Val. At Gnoss Field, infamous for its summer afternoon
90 degree cross, where Dave King, John Zecherle and I are based we seem to run
out of rudder in our CJs around 17 -- 18 knots.
Brian Lloyd will know....... ...Blitz
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Valkyre1 wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum
> crosswind/tailwind component for a CJ6? - Val
I have landed in a direct 17 kt crosswind before. I don't know if there
is an official number tho'.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> If there are any ham/pilots out there, I'd recommend looking around for
> the ARC-182 radio. They are becoming more and more common on the
> marketplace (I own 3). They cover the standard VHF civil aeronautical
> band, plus the military 225-399.975 Mhz band, plus 6 meter and 2 meter
> FM. All in one radio. In fact, they also cover the Maritime Mobile
> Band.. and MORE. A lot of which is not legal to use, but a lot that is
> ..... with the right license.
Sounds like a slick radio. Do they do FM as well as AM? Aviation, both
VHF and UHF, uses AM while VHF maritime mobile is FM.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Although the book says 12 knots on the 52, I have made crosswind
> landings with a direct, 90 degree crosswind blowing steadily at
> approximately 16-17 knots and did not run out of rudder.
Remember that DEMONSTRATED crosswind capability does not mean that the
airplane can't land in a greater crosswind, only that it has only been
tested to the demonstrated value.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Max X-wind |
Val wrote:
>
>Hey guys,
>
>silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum crosswind/tailwind component
>for a CJ6? - Val
>
Not a silly question. The answer is "depends". Right crosswind is tougher than
the left when carrying power on to the runway. I have done 25+ Knots direct x-wind
component out of a 35 Kt total but it wasn't pretty. Use some crab with that
full rudder and *all* of the runway width available. I wouldn't recommend
skinny runways in gusty x-winds for the CJ...or Piper, or Beech. or cessna, etc.
Having sailboat training helped me :>)
Craig Payne
Message 27
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Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
>> If there are any ham/pilots out there, I'd recommend looking around for
>> the ARC-182 radio. They are becoming more and more common on the
>> marketplace (I own 3). They cover the standard VHF civil aeronautical
>> band, plus the military 225-399.975 Mhz band, plus 6 meter and 2 meter
>> FM. All in one radio. In fact, they also cover the Maritime Mobile
>> Band.. and MORE. A lot of which is not legal to use, but a lot that is
>> ..... with the right license.
Brian Lloyd then asked:
>Sounds like a slick radio. Do they do FM as well as AM? Aviation, both
>VHF and UHF, uses AM while VHF maritime mobile is FM.
Mark Bitterlich answered:
Actually Brian yes... it does both AM and FM, BUT is NOT switchable in
certain areas. For example it will NOT do AM in the Marine Band. It will
not do FM in the VHF AIR band. In other words, it tries to keep you from
making stupid mistakes. It is a little hard to set up for
repeaters...actually it is a pain in the tail to set up for repeaters! It
also does not like things with 5 Khz offsets. BUT... for a single radio
that you can put into an airplane... it's pretty cool. Has a remote head of
course and the radio mounts in a rack. It's not HUGE though. Smaller than
the Russian YAK-52 radio, and would fit right into the place that thing
currently sits.
All of the new military radios do this now (AM and FM with large frequency
ranges)... the ARC-210 series being the current newest and best in the
lot... but those puppies are very hard to find used.... if not impossible.
All of the 182's however are coming out, as the new ARC-210's go in.
Mark Bitterlich
Message 28
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
That sounds pretty "official" to me! -)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
>
> Valkyre1 wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum
>> crosswind/tailwind component for a CJ6? - Val
>
> I have landed in a direct 17 kt crosswind before. I don't know if there
> is an official number tho'.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I do not necessarily agree with you. The term "demonstrated crosswind" does
apply to US certified aircraft. But are you 100% confident the same testing
terminology is used in Russia or for that matter, China?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> Although the book says 12 knots on the 52, I have made crosswind landings
>> with a direct, 90 degree crosswind blowing steadily at approximately
>> 16-17 knots and did not run out of rudder.
>
> Remember that DEMONSTRATED crosswind capability does not mean that the
> airplane can't land in a greater crosswind, only that it has only been
> tested to the demonstrated value.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Max X-wind |
Val wrote:
>>Hey guys,
>>
>>silly question, but does anyone know the official maximum
crosswind/tailwind component
>>for a CJ6? - Val
Craig Payne replied
>Not a silly question. The answer is "depends".
>Right crosswind is tougher than the left when carrying
>power on to the runway. I have done 25+ Knots direct
>x-wind component out of a 35 Kt total but it wasn't
>pretty. Use some crab with that full rudder and *all*
>of the runway width available. I wouldn't recommend
>skinny runways in gusty x-winds for the CJ...or Piper,
>or Beech. or cessna, etc. Having sailboat training helped me :>)
Which brings up an interesting question. I fly a YAK-50 and the listed
crosswind component on that thing is in the single digit range. The gear
legs on a 50 are anything but "robust". Landing on narrow runways in ANY
kind of wind condition is an exercise in this aircraft, which is why I have
sometime landed on taxiways, intersections, and centermats. I've always
wondered about the legality of that... not that it matters... I'll always
take a violation over an accident... any day! Never-the-less, what do the
legal eagles have to say in that regard? I've asked to do it at a tower
controlled airport and they denied it. The wind was intense.. gusting to
over 30 some knots... so I lined up on the runway intersection and landed
into the wind on it. Tower guy was not very happy about that either. No
violation, but the way he acted he was being nice by not turning me in. I
just kept my mouth shut and decided not to belabor the point. Any input
here?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
Message 31
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> All of the new military radios do this now (AM and FM with large
> frequency ranges)... the ARC-210 series being the current newest and
> best in the lot... but those puppies are very hard to find used.... if
> not impossible.
>
> All of the 182's however are coming out, as the new ARC-210's go in.
Sounds slick. I want one. Let's take this off list.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 32
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> I do not necessarily agree with you. The term "demonstrated crosswind"
> does apply to US certified aircraft. But are you 100% confident the
> same testing terminology is used in Russia or for that matter, China?
I cannot comment because I don't know how the Russians determined the
number. I am not aware of any published number for the CJ6A so I can
only comment on *my* experience. I do find it interesting that Dave
King's experience is similar to mine so I would say that we have a
couple of good data points here.
The only other point I was making is that an airplane *may* be capable
of landing safely in a crosswind component greater than the published
"demonstrated crosswind component". I didn't say that I would want to go
find out some dark and stormy night on a narrow, slick, runway.
But I do know that the CJ6A is fully controllable in a direct 17 kt
crosswind (both sides -- I tried it). I strongly recommend being up on
your crosswind landing technique and that your brakes be in good condition.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Max X-wind |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> Never-the-less, what do the legal eagles have to say in that regard?
> I've asked to do it at a tower controlled airport and they denied it.
> The wind was intense.. gusting to over 30 some knots... so I lined up on
> the runway intersection and landed into the wind on it. Tower guy was
> not very happy about that either. No violation, but the way he acted he
> was being nice by not turning me in. I just kept my mouth shut and
> decided not to belabor the point. Any input here?
You got away with it. I wouldn't push my luck too often tho'.
And I have done the same thing but only at an uncontrolled field. 60 mph
direct crosswind (Van Horn, TX, in 1984 on the flight home after I
bought my Commanche) so I landed on the crossing taxiway. I think my
ground roll was about 100'.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 34
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| Subject: | You've seen the stills. Here's the movies |
http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/harvards.wmv
Sound up. ...Blitz
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