Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: Max X-wind (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:57 AM - Looking or helpers! (Num1Pilot@aol.com)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Valkyre1)
4. 08:15 AM - Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20Max=20X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com (Valkyre1)
5. 08:20 AM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Fraser, Gus)
6. 08:31 AM - Max X-wind (Kevin Pilling)
7. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Max X-wind (Valkyre1)
8. 08:37 AM - Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:48:06 -0500 Max X-wind Max X-wind (Valkyre1)
9. 09:14 AM - Spring and Oshkosh (Fraser, Gus)
10. 09:28 AM - Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
11. 09:53 AM - ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! (Barry Hancock)
12. 10:03 AM - Re: Spring and Oshkosh (Herb Coussons)
13. 10:23 AM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Roger Kemp)
14. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com (Roger Kemp)
15. 10:31 AM - Re: Max X-wind (cjpilot710@aol.com)
16. 10:54 AM - Sun&Fun (cjpilot710@aol.com)
17. 12:02 PM - SNF Schedule Update (Craig Payne)
18. 12:13 PM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Fraser, Gus)
19. 12:14 PM - Re: Spring and Oshkosh (Fraser, Gus)
20. 12:48 PM - Really severe cross wind. (Fraser, Gus)
21. 01:03 PM - Re: Sun&Fun (Bill Mills)
22. 01:27 PM - Re: Sun&Fun (Craig Payne)
23. 02:35 PM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Brian Lloyd)
24. 02:46 PM - Re: SNF Schedule Update (Roger Kemp)
25. 02:54 PM - Re: Max X-wind (Brian Lloyd)
26. 03:05 PM - Re: Sun&Fun (doug sapp)
27. 03:38 PM - Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax (Roger Kemp)
28. 08:09 PM - Re: ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! (ByronMFox@aol.com)
29. 09:07 PM - Re: ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! (barry)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
And so is the 52 completely controllable in direct crosswinds of greater
than 12 knots. I have "demonstrated" that to myself on several occasions.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> I do not necessarily agree with you. The term "demonstrated crosswind"
>> does apply to US certified aircraft. But are you 100% confident the same
>> testing terminology is used in Russia or for that matter, China?
>
> I cannot comment because I don't know how the Russians determined the
> number. I am not aware of any published number for the CJ6A so I can only
> comment on *my* experience. I do find it interesting that Dave King's
> experience is similar to mine so I would say that we have a couple of good
> data points here.
>
> The only other point I was making is that an airplane *may* be capable of
> landing safely in a crosswind component greater than the published
> "demonstrated crosswind component". I didn't say that I would want to go
> find out some dark and stormy night on a narrow, slick, runway.
>
> But I do know that the CJ6A is fully controllable in a direct 17 kt
> crosswind (both sides -- I tried it). I strongly recommend being up on
> your crosswind landing technique and that your brakes be in good
> condition.
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Looking or helpers! |
Come one, come all. The All Red Star staff is looking for a few good men
and women to help with little (and big) jobs at All Red Star V in Porterville,
CA (PVT) on May 3-7th, 2006.
This year's event is going to be loads of fun, but it will be better if you
can help pitch in to make it the best year ever. If you are interested,
please contact me off list and I will sign you up for a few hours of work or a
few days - your choice!
You don't have to have any experience, just the desire to be around the most
fun Americans on the planet!
HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE with this year's event. GIBs and airport bums are
also welcome to volunteer!
-Hartley "Postal" Postlethwaite,
Air Boss/Volunteer Coordinator ARS V 2006
KD6KWA (yep, another HAM as well as Yak/CJ driver)
_http://www.allredstar.com/_ (http://www.allredstar.com/)
_HAP1995@yahoo.com_ (mailto:HAP1995@yahoo.com)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax |
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component of landing
speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
Message 4
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Thanks Blitz. That sounds about right for less tail surface but I expect to hear
from Brian with the "real-deal" soon as you said. -Val
Message 5
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| Subject: | Max X-windMax X-windMax |
Val the real test is find a real windy day and go play, When I first got the
SP, my first tail wheel, I specifically went out with my coach and we found
the most hideous crosswind runways we could find. Really popular were those
surrounded by hills to make it even more fun with turbulence. When I was
flying the Yak 52 I always used the crab until the last minute then kick
straight. Obviously timing is key but I think the 52 flies better like this.
Obviously the sp flies better wing up. With the 52, because of the high wing
loading (compared to a Cessna or piper) it takes a second or so to decide to
change the direction of travel. Even then it just continues to sink on
through to the runway. It does really like full into wind aileron on
touchdown but that is just normal. The one thing I always remember about the
52 is that on high turbulence days my buddy in his PA140 was getting bounced
around and banging his head while in the 52 tranquility reigned. When we
landed I would have to ask if it was rough. I am sure it must be the same in
the CJ (same weight and wing profile).
The limitation of the crab on the 52 is the rudder but if you put in full
rudder when flying along you can basically travel 35-40 deg from the thrust
line. In a REALLY strong wind a bit of wing dipping will help on a REALLY
REALLY windy day you may need the casters on the wing tips :))))
Get windy and I don't mean beans.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component of
landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Val the real test is find a real windy day and go play,
When I first got the SP, my first tail wheel, I specifically went out with my
coach and we found the most hideous crosswind runways we could find. Really
popular were those surrounded by hills to make it even more fun with turbulence.
When I was flying the Yak 52 I always used the crab until the last minute then
kick straight. Obviously timing is key but I think the 52 flies better like
this. Obviously the sp flies better wing up. With the 52, because of the high
wing loading (compared to a Cessna or piper) it takes a second or so to decide
to change the direction of travel. Even then it just continues to sink on
through to the runway. It does really like full into windaileron on
touchdown but that is just normal. The one thing I always remember about the 52
is that on high turbulence days my buddy in his PA140 was getting bounced around
and banging his head while in the 52 tranquility reigned. When we landed I would
have to ask if it was rough. I am sure it must be the same in the CJ (same
weight and wing profile).
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The limitation of the crab on the 52 is the rudder but if
you put in full rudder when flying along you can basically travel 35-40 deg from
the thrust line. In a REALLY strong wind a bit of wing dipping will help on a
REALLY REALLY windy day you may need the casters on the wing tips
:))))
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Get windy and I don't mean beans.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:01 AM
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax
X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very
similar in a CJ and a component of landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer
surface. Just guessing. - Val
Message 6
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You know it was too much x-wind for your CJ when both gear legs retract in the
same direction on roll out.!...or in a 50/52 left-right instead of forward-backward..........kp
----- Original Message -----
From: Valkyre1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component of landing
speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
Message 7
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Yup, you're right there. I had a new captain insist that I land our 767 in Seattle
when the winds were down the runway at 90 gusting to 105 kts. ( Yes you heard
that right.) He was determined to have me do it because he was new to the
machine and I had been flying it as co-pilot for six years. That was the only
good decision he made that night. We also had moderate to severe turbulence.
When I objected, his rational was the we had no maximum headwind limit in the books
for the 767 and Seattle was still shooting approaches and hadn't closed the
airport down. My objection was that it just didn't seem like the smart thing
to do but.... "oh well" he had me on the semantics.
Needless to say, we made it, but we were the last airplane to land before they
shut Seattle down at the request of the next airliner who made a missed approach
and said "You shut this @!#!! airport DOWN! There IS no moderate turbulence
out here...just severe! We can't control the aircraft!"
Once we got on the taxiway I told the captain that if he EVER tried to do that
to us again I would slap him silly. He was white as a sheet and had pretty much
just held on and left me on my own during the approach. A missed approach attempt
would have put us in more jeopardy because I was already using full control
deflection just to keep us upright and on the ILS. One more configuration
change would have been, in my opinion, the last straw.
The captain looked at me and just said, "Next time I'd appreciate it if you DID
slap some sense into me."
Point being, as you said, even if the book numbers look OK, it's legal, and everybody
else is apparently doing it but you have a bad feeling about something....don't
do it. Just my philosophy.
- Val
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Yak-List=3A=A0_Max_X-wind?Date: Wed, |
29 Mar 2006 15:48:06 -0500 Max X-wind Max X-wind
It worked for the U2 spy plane. (LOL) "Hoo-Boy! Something else to buy for our
Red Star airplanes.Stttoppittt! " - Valkyrie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Spring and Oshkosh |
It is Spring time, plans for Sun'NFun are all made and underway. This time
of year a young mans fancy turns to competition and Oshkosh. Those of you
with non-military types, ie aerobatic, any of you planning on flying your
beasts to Osh this year ? I am going to take the SP. Last year I parked in
the IAC parking which they will do if you book early. Last year I was the
only Russian plane in there. There were some S12s but my bird got kinda
lonely as nobody else spoke Russian :))
So, how about it Rick, smash et al.
If a group of us go we could plan on spending a day at Manitowoc with our G
challenged brethren.
Gus
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>It is Spring time, plans for Sun'NFun are all made and
underway. This time of year a young mans fancy turns to competition and Oshkosh.
Those of you with non-military types, ie aerobatic, any of you planning on
flying your beasts to Osh this year ? I am going to take the SP. Last year I
parked in the IAC parking which they will do if you book early. Last year I was
the only Russian plane in there. There were some S12s but my bird got kinda
lonely as nobody else spoke Russian :))
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>So, how about it Rick, smash et al.
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>If a group of us go we could plan on spending a day at
Manitowoc with our G challenged brethren.
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>
<SPAN
class=905500817-30032006>Gus
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Valkyre1 wrote:
> "HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component
> of landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
Contributing factors are:
1. Speed at touchdown determines how much bank angle you will need for a
given cross-wind. Fast touch-down speeds require less bank angle to
control the same amount of lateral drift.
Since the flaps on the CJ do not make an appreciable difference in stall
speed you aren't going to gain much by doing a no-flap landing. The
extra drag of the split flaps slowing the airplane is probably of more
help to you than the 2-kt reduction in stall speed.
2. Bank angle available is dependent on how much wingtip clearance you
have at touchdown (or how much you are willing to use).
3. Acceptable gear side loads will also determine the available bank
angle. My gut feel is that the gear on the CJ6A can handle greater
side-loads than can the gear of the Yak-52 but I am guessing here.
4. How much rudder authority do you have at touchdown speed? It needs to
be sufficient to align the aircraft longitudinal axis with the axis of
the runway. If you are short on rudder authority you can use the "crab
it in then kick is straight" method but that may involve higher gear
side loads at the moment of touchdown as the aircraft will have started
to drift laterally.
Does this help?
Brian Lloyd
brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
Message 11
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| Subject: | ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! |
Dear Fellow Red Star Aviators,
The online registration module is now open! Simply go to
www.allredstar.com and click on the "registration" tab.
The prices listed are for early registration, fees go up 10% beginning
April 15th....so register now!
If you have any questions, or problems registering, please contact me
directly at barry@allredstar.com, or on my cell phone (listed below).
Thanks!
Barry and the ARS V Staff
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spring and Oshkosh |
Also we are working on OSH / MTW plans now. There will continue to
be more RPA visability in the warbird area. Maybe some evening
events combined with the MTW crowd.
Look for details coming
Herb
On Mar 30, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
> It is Spring time, plans for Sun'NFun are all made and underway.
> This time of year a young mans fancy turns to competition and
> Oshkosh. Those of you with non-military types, ie aerobatic, any of
> you planning on flying your beasts to Osh this year ? I am going to
> take the SP. Last year I parked in the IAC parking which they will
> do if you book early. Last year I was the only Russian plane in
> there. There were some S12s but my bird got kinda lonely as nobody
> else spoke Russian :))
>
> So, how about it Rick, smash et al.
>
> If a group of us go we could plan on spending a day at Manitowoc
> with our G challenged brethren.
>
> Gus
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Max X-windMax X-windMax |
Well Gus!
As you spoke, finished my tailwheel endorsement this past week with 15 gusting
20 kts@ 45 to 50 deg X winds. Started out in a L-3, Champ (I now know what follow
on airplane I DO NOT WANT), and then back seat landings in the 52. Seems my
wimpy 52 TW brothern would not come out to play. All of this in prep to go pickup
my 50.
Did pavement and grass. Threw in a barrier of trees with a cutover area about 1/3
down the grass runway just to get that 20 kt increase from the venturi effect.
Saw my first PIO due to wind gusts and thinking I finally had the little
under powered kit at full stall for a stall landing. Endured the 85hp spit, sputter
and cough in an attempt to spoil up so I could break the roller coaster
ride! By the time this POS decided to spoil up, I had slowed it down to a walk
( more like bounced it down!). At that time I got to experience a ground loop!
Thanks to the venturi thru the 10-15 ft cutover!
Needless to say, it was crappy weather to learn tail dragging in, but it paid off
when coming into Greenwood, Miss. (KGWO) with my new toy. There the winds had
the uncanny ability to be 45 deg to all three runways as I attempted to land!
Got down with a crab, arrested a wind driven intial PIO (from my buffooned
landing attempt) as the tail stalled and caught the beginings of ground loop because
my tailwheel had come unlocked as I pushed the stick forward to try to
stick the nose to arrest the PIO! And just think if it had not been for that @#$%@7$#!!!
Champ, I would not have had the experience to react to all that at
once! OBTW, the winds at GWO were called for 300 @ 15 gusting 25 on AWOS. The
weather geeksearlier in the day had called for 5 KTS for the entire day. Yep,
Rich the "Weather Bitch" failed again!
Yes, I now know what that stupid ass moto I see on T-shirts and aviation coffee
cups means now! "The second greatest thing man does is FLYING." The first is
LANDING!" That dude was a TAIL DRAGGER!
Well could have be a TAIL HOOKER too! But, I refuse to give the NAVY credit for
any consideration that what they call a landing is anything other than a CONTROLLED
CRASH that they get to use the airplane again after!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Fraser, Gus
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:26:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
Val the real test is find a real windy day and go play, When I first got the SP,
my first tail wheel, I specifically went out with my coach and we found the
most hideous crosswind runways we could find. Really popular were those surrounded
by hills to make it even more fun with turbulence. When I was flying the
Yak 52 I always used the crab until the last minute then kick straight. Obviously
timing is key but I think the 52 flies better like this. Obviously the sp
flies better wing up. With the 52, because of the high wing loading (compared
to a Cessna or piper) it takes a second or so to decide to change the direction
of travel. Even then it just continues to sink on through to the runway. It
does really like full into wind aileron on touchdown but that is just normal.
The one thing I always remember about the 52 is that on high turbulence days my
buddy in his PA140 was getting bounced around and banging his head while in
the 52 tranquility reigned. When we landed I would ha
ve to ask if it was rough. I am sure it must be the same in the CJ (same weight
and wing profile).
The limitation of the crab on the 52 is the rudder but if you put in full rudder
when flying along you can basically travel 35-40 deg from the thrust line. In
a REALLY strong wind a bit of wing dipping will help on a REALLY REALLY windy
day you may need the casters on the wing tips :))))
Get windy and I don't mean beans.
Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component of landing
speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
Message 14
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Shack! Two's off dry!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Valkyre1
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:24:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Thanks Blitz. That sounds about right for less tail surface but I expect to hear
from Brian with the "real-deal" soon as you said. -Val
Message 15
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You might not want to use flap in a real cross wind. You are adding additional
surface area for the wind to act on and thus cause more drift. Also as one gets
into ground effect with flap out the airplane will be lighter on the gear
and the airplane will drift easier after touch down. A "firm" landing is also
preferred, a "greaser" will only cause you to expose the airplane to the wind
longer and thus increasing drift as you slow down.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:27:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Valkyre1 wrote:
> "HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component
> of landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
Contributing factors are:
1. Speed at touchdown determines how much bank angle you will need for a
given cross-wind. Fast touch-down speeds require less bank angle to
control the same amount of lateral drift.
Since the flaps on the CJ do not make an appreciable difference in stall
speed you aren't going to gain much by doing a no-flap landing. The
extra drag of the split flaps slowing the airplane is probably of more
help to you than the 2-kt reduction in stall speed.
2. Bank angle available is dependent on how much wingtip clearance you
have at touchdown (or how much you are willing to use).
3. Acceptable gear side loads will also determine the available bank
angle. My gut feel is that the gear on the CJ6A can handle greater
side-loads than can the gear of the Yak-52 but I am guessing here.
4. How much rudder authority do you have at touchdown speed? It needs to
be sufficient to align the aircraft longitudinal axis with the axis of
the runway. If you are short on rudder authority you can use the "crab
it in then kick is straight" method but that may involve higher gear
side loads at the moment of touchdown as the aircraft will have started
to drift laterally.
Does this help?
Brian Lloyd
brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
Message 16
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Troops,
Still out with bombers but should head home tomorrow.
Just talked to Wayne Boggs who will the airboss at S&F. They are planning a mass
warbird arrival (like at OSH) on Tuesday (April 4th around 1400L) for that
part of the airshow. This is the very first I've heard of it.
What I know at this point is that the NATA guys are planning to come up from thier
formation clinic down in Seabring to the show. Since the RPA members elected
not to stay at Zeferhills this year and instead stay at LAL that precludes
us from arriving in mass to the show.
However I'd like to plan the following. All those participating in the show be
at Zeferhills as early as possible on Tuesday morning. There we can plan we
can a mass formation for a fly over and arrival back into LAL as part of the warbird
part of the show. That will be the only part of the show that day, the
arrival.
The rest of the show days will be flown from LAL.
My cell phone is 386-559-1943.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:23:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Shack! Two's off dry!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Valkyre1
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:24:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Thanks Blitz. That sounds about right for less tail surface but I expect to hear
from Brian with the "real-deal" soon as you said. -Val
Message 17
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| Subject: | SNF Schedule Update |
Word is that the Night airshow will be held Friday night. This means those who
wish to attend my hanger party may do so without skipping the Saturday Warbirds
Banquet and miss out on an opportunity to "bond" with folks that have REAL warbirds,
not cheap Chinese Junk like I fly :
<
Apparently the Leeward flyout will be Friday also; should be a laid back, fun kinda
day.
Craig Payne
Message 18
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| Subject: | Max X-windMax X-windMax |
A friend told me before I started tail wheel "It's like riding a kids
tricycle down a highway at 100 mph in reverse"
:)))
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
Well Gus!
As you spoke, finished my tailwheel endorsement this past week with 15
gusting 20 kts@ 45 to 50 deg X winds. Started out in a L-3, Champ (I now
know what follow on airplane I DO NOT WANT), and then back seat landings in
the 52. Seems my wimpy 52 TW brothern would not come out to play. All of
this in prep to go pickup my 50.
Did pavement and grass. Threw in a barrier of trees with a cutover area
about 1/3 down the grass runway just to get that 20 kt increase from the
venturi effect. Saw my first PIO due to wind gusts and thinking I finally
had the little under powered kit at full stall for a stall landing. Endured
the 85hp spit, sputter and cough in an attempt to spoil up so I could break
the roller coaster ride! By the time this POS decided to spoil up, I had
slowed it down to a walk ( more like bounced it down!). At that time I got
to experience a ground loop! Thanks to the venturi thru the 10-15 ft
cutover!
Needless to say, it was crappy weather to learn tail dragging in, but it
paid off when coming into Greenwood, Miss. (KGWO) with my new toy. There the
winds had the uncanny ability to be 45 deg to all three runways as I
attempted to land! Got down with a crab, arrested a wind driven intial PIO
(from my buffooned landing attempt) as the tail stalled and caught the
beginings of ground loop because my tailwheel had come unlocked as I pushed
the stick forward to try to stick the nose to arrest the PIO! And just think
if it had not been for that @#$%@7$#!!! Champ, I would not have had the
experience to react to all that at once! OBTW, the winds at GWO were called
for 300 @ 15 gusting 25 on AWOS. The weather geeksearlier in the day had
called for 5 KTS for the entire day. Yep, Rich the "Weather Bitch" failed
again!
Yes, I now know what that stupid ass moto I see on T-shirts and aviation
coffee cups means now! "The second greatest thing man does is FLYING." The
first is LANDING!" That dude was a TAIL DRAGGER!
Well could have be a TAIL HOOKER too! But, I refuse to give the NAVY credit
for any consideration that what they call a landing is anything other than a
CONTROLLED CRASH that they get to use the airplane again after!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Fraser, Gus <mailto:gus.fraser@gs.com>
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:26:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
Val the real test is find a real windy day and go play, When I first got the
SP, my first tail wheel, I specifically went out with my coach and we found
the most hideous crosswind runways we could find. Really popular were those
surrounded by hills to make it even more fun with turbulence. When I was
flying the Yak 52 I always used the crab until the last minute then kick
straight. Obviously timing is key but I think the 52 flies better like this.
Obviously the sp flies better wing up. With the 52, because of the high wing
loading (compared to a Cessna or piper) it takes a second or so to decide to
change the direction of travel. Even then it just continues to sink on
through to the runway. It does really like full into wind aileron on
touchdown but that is just normal. The one thing I always remember about the
52 is that on high turbulence days my buddy in his PA140 was getting bounced
around and banging his head while in the 52 tranquility reigned. When we
landed I would have to ask if it was rough. I am sure it must be the same in
the CJ (same weight and wing profile).
The limitation of the crab on the 52 is the rudder but if you put in full
rudder when flying along you can basically travel 35-40 deg from the thrust
line. In a REALLY strong wind a bit of wing dipping will help on a REALLY
REALLY windy day you may need the casters on the wing tips :))))
Get windy and I don't mean beans.
Gus
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar in a CJ and a component of
landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer surface. Just guessing. - Val
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>A friend told me before I started tail wheel "It's like riding a
kids tricycle down a highway at 100 mph in reverse"
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>:)))
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Kemp
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:22 PM
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Max X-windMax
X-windMax
Well Gus!
As you spoke, finished my tailwheel endorsement this past week with 15
gusting 20 kts@ 45 to 50 deg X winds. Started out in a L-3, Champ (I now know
what follow on airplane I DO NOT WANT), and then back seat landings in the 52.
Seems my wimpy 52 TW brothern would not come out to play. All of this in prep
to go pickup my 50.
Did pavement and grass. Threw in a barrier of trees with a cutover area
about 1/3 down the grass runway just to get that 20 kt increase from the
venturi effect. Saw my first PIO due to wind gusts and thinking I finally had
the littleunder powered kit at full stall for a stall landing.
Endured the 85hp spit, sputter and cough in an attempt to spoil up so I could
break the roller coaster ride! By the time this POS decided to spoil up, I had
slowed it down to a walk ( more like bounced it down!). At that time I got to
experience a ground loop! Thanks to the venturi thru the 10-15 ft cutover!
Needless to say, it was crappy weather to learn tail dragging in, but it
paid off when coming into Greenwood, Miss. (KGWO) with my new toy. There the
winds had the uncanny ability to be 45 deg to all three runways as I attempted
to land! Got down with a crab, arrested a wind driven intial PIO (from my
buffooned landing attempt) as the tail stalled and caught the beginings of
ground loop because my tailwheel had come unlocked as I pushed the stick
forward to try to stick the nose to arrest the PIO! And just think if it had
not been for that @#$%@7$#!!! Champ, I would not have had the experience to
react to all that at once! OBTW, the winds at GWO were called for 300 @ 15
gusting 25 on AWOS. The weather geeksearlier in the dayhad called for 5
KTS for the entire day. Yep, Rich the "Weather Bitch" failed again!
Yes, I now know what that stupid ass moto I see on T-shirts and aviation
coffee cups means now! "The second greatest thing man does is FLYING."
The first is LANDING!" That dude was a TAIL DRAGGER!
Well could have be a TAIL HOOKER too! But, I refuse to give the NAVY
credit for any consideration that what they call a landing is anything other
than a CONTROLLED CRASH that they get to use the airplane again after!
Doc
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A title=gus.fraser@gs.com ">Fraser, Gus
To: <A title=yak-list@matronics.com
">yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:26:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Max X-windMax
X-windMax
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Val the real test is find a real windy day and go play, When
I
first got the SP, my first tail wheel, I specifically went out with my coach
and we found the most hideous crosswind runways we could find. Really
popular were those surrounded by hills to make it even more fun with
turbulence. When I was flying the Yak 52 I always used the crab until the
last minute then kick straight. Obviously timing is key but I think the 52
flies better like this. Obviously the sp flies better wing up. With the 52,
because of the high wing loading (compared to a Cessna or piper) it takes a
second or so to decide to change the direction of travel. Even then it just
continues to sink on through to the runway. It does really like full into
windaileron on touchdown but that is just normal. The one thing I
always remember about the 52 is that on high turbulence days my buddy in his
PA140 was getting bounced around and banging his head while in the 52
tranquility reigned. When we landed I would have to ask if it was rough. I
am sure it must be the same in the CJ (same weight and wing
profile).
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>The limitation of the crab on the 52 is the rudder but if you
put in full rudder when flying along you can basically travel 35-40 deg from
the thrust line. In a REALLY strong wind a bit of wing dipping will help on
a REALLY REALLY windy day you may need the casters on the wing tips
:))))
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Get windy and I don't mean beans.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Gus
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:01
AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List:
Max X-windMax X-windMax
"HAH!" Thanks Gus. It's probably very similar
in a CJ and a component of landing speeds and rudder/ vert. stabilizer
surface. Just guessing. -
Val
Message 19
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| Subject: | Spring and Oshkosh |
Herb will there be a box ?
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spring and Oshkosh
Also we are working on OSH / MTW plans now. There will continue to be more
RPA visability in the warbird area. Maybe some evening events combined with
the MTW crowd.
Look for details coming
Herb
On Mar 30, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:
It is Spring time, plans for Sun'NFun are all made and underway. This time
of year a young mans fancy turns to competition and Oshkosh. Those of you
with non-military types, ie aerobatic, any of you planning on flying your
beasts to Osh this year ? I am going to take the SP. Last year I parked in
the IAC parking which they will do if you book early. Last year I was the
only Russian plane in there. There were some S12s but my bird got kinda
lonely as nobody else spoke Russian :))
So, how about it Rick, smash et al.
If a group of us go we could plan on spending a day at Manitowoc with our G
challenged brethren.
Gus
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR>
<BODY
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; khtml-nbsp-mode: space; khtml-line-break: after-white-space">
<FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Herb will there be a box ?
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Coussons
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:57 PM
To:
yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spring and
Oshkosh
Also we are working on OSH / MTW plans now. There will
continue to be more RPA visability in the warbird area. Maybe some
evening events combined with the MTW crowd.
Look for details coming
Herb
On Mar 30, 2006, at 11:13 AM, Fraser, Gus wrote:<BR
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<SPAN class=3DApple-style-span
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal;
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It is
Spring time, plans for Sun'NFun are all made and underway. This time of year
a young mans fancy turns to competition and Oshkosh. Those of you with
non-military types, ie aerobatic, any of you planning on flying your beasts
to Osh this year ? I am going to take the SP. Last year I parked in the IAC
parking which they will do if you book early. Last year I was the only
Russian plane in there. There were some S12s but my bird got kinda lonely as
nobody else spoke Russian :))
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span>
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So, how
about it Rick, smash et al.
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span>
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If a group
of us go we could plan on spending a day at Manitowoc with our G challenged
brethren.
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN
class=3DApple-style-span>
<SPAN
class=3D905500817-30032006><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Gus<BR
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Really severe cross wind. |
Hey Val,
I think your captain was flying this aircraft (see link). It sounds like he
had a really bad cross wind this time :)))
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68003dd20/nb/09012da68
003df21_16x9_nb.asx
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68003dd20/nb/09012da6
8003df21_16x9_nb.asx>
Gus
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2658.34">
Really severe cross wind.
Hey Val,
I think your captain was flying this aircraft (see link). It sounds like he had
a really bad cross wind this time :)))
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68003dd20/nb/09012da68003df21_16x9_nb.asx
Gus
Message 21
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Hey Jim,
Thanx for the offer of Saturday. It turns out that the stainless wont be
here in time, so Doug Sapp is sending me just that one piece, and I can get
that on no problem myself.
See you next week
Bill Mills
Regional Sales Manager
Total Tec Systems
South East US
386 447 1118
bill.mills@totaltec.com <mailto:bill.mills@totaltec.com>
" Because I fly.... I envy no man "
_____
From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:54 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Sun&Fun
Troops,
Still out with bombers but should head home tomorrow.
Just talked to Wayne Boggs who will the airboss at S&F. They are planning a
mass warbird arrival (like at OSH) on Tuesday (April 4th around 1400L) for
that part of the airshow. This is the very first I've heard of it.
What I know at this point is that the NATA guys are planning to come up from
thier formation clinic down in Seabring to the show. Since the RPA members
elected not to stay at Zeferhills this year and instead stay at LAL that
precludes us from arriving in mass to the show.
However I'd like to plan the following. All those participating in the show
be at Zeferhills as early as possible on Tuesday morning. There we can plan
we can a mass formation for a fly over and arrival back into LAL as part of
the warbird part of the show. That will be the only part of the show that
day, the arrival.
The rest of the show days will be flown from LAL.
My cell phone is 386-559-1943.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:23:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Shack! Two's off dry!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: <javascript:parent.ComposeTo('Valkyre1@comcast.net');> Valkyre1
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo('yak-list@matronics.com');>
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:24:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Thanks Blitz. That sounds about right for less tail surface but I expect to
hear from Brian with the "real-deal" soon as you said. -Val
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</style>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey=20Jim,
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanx=20for=20the=20offer=20of=20Saturday.=20It=20turns
out=20that=20the=20stainless=20wont=20be=20here=20in=20time,=20so=20Doug=20Sapp=20is=20sending=20me=20just
that=20one=20piece,=20and=20I=20can=20get=20that=20on=20no=20problem=20myself.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>See=20you=20next=20week
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
<em><span
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Imprint=20MT=20Shadow";color:navy'>Bill=20Mills</em><font
color=3Dnavy>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regional=20Sales=20Manager<font
color=3Dnavy>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Total=20Tec=20Systems<font
color=3Dnavy>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>South=20<st1:place=20w:st=3D"on">East=20US</st1:place><font
color=3Dnavy>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>386=20447=201118<font
color=3Dnavy>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>bill.mills@totaltec.com<font
color=3Dnavy>
<span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>
<em><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Stencil;color:black'>=20Because=20I
fly....=20I=20envy=20no=20man=20</em><em><font=20size=3D2
color=3Dblue=20face=3DStencil><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Stencil;
color:blue'>=20</em>
<font=20size=3D3
face=3D"Times=20New=20Roman"><span=20style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:<font=20size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
cjpilot710@aol.com=20[mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent:=20Thursday,=20March=2030,=202006
1:54=20PM
To:=20<st1:PersonName=20w:st=3D"on">yak-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName>
Subject:=20Yak-List:=20SunFun
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Troops,
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Still=20out=20with=20bombers=20but=20should=20head=20home=20<span
class=3Dcorrection>tomorrow.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Just=20talked=20to=20Wayne=20<span
id=3D"">Boggs=20who=20will=20the=20<span
id=3D"">airboss=20at=20SF.=20They=20are=20planning=20a=20<font
face=3DVerdana>mass=20<span
id=3D""><span=20style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>warbird<span
style=3D'font-family:Verdana'>=20arrival=20(like=20at=20<span
id=3D""><st1:City=20w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20w:st=3D"on"><span
=20=20id=3D"">OSH</st1:place></st1:City>)=20on=20Tuesday=20(April=204th
around=201400L)for=20that=20part=20of=20the=20<span
id=3D"">airshow.=20This=20is=20the=20very=20first=20I've=20heard=20of
it.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>What=20I=20know=20at=20this=20point=20is=20that=20the=20<span
class=3Dcorrection>NATA=20guys=20are
planning=20to=20come=20upfrom=20thier
formation=20clinic=20down=20in=20Seabring
to=20the=20show.=20Since=20the=20RPA
members=20elected=20not=20to=20stay=20at
Zeferhills
this=20year=20and=20instead=20stay=20at=20LAL
that=20precludes=20us=20from=20arriving=20in=20mass=20to=20the=20show.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>However=20I'd=20like=20to=20plan=20the=20following.=20All=20those=20<span
class=3Dcorrection>participating=20in=20the=20show=20be=20at=20<span
class=3Dcorrection>Zeferhills=20as
early=20as=20possible=20on=20Tuesday
morning.=20There=20we=20can=20plan=20we=20can=20a=20mass=20formation=20for=20a=20fly=20over=20and
arrival=20back=20into=20LAL
as=20part=20of=20the=20warbird
part=20of=20the=20show.=20That=20will=20be=20the=20only=20part=20of=20the=20show=20that=20day,=20the
arrival.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>The=20rest=20of=20the=20show=20days=20will=20be=20flown=20from=20LAL.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>My=20cell=20phone=20is=20386-559-1943.
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Jim=20Pappy=20Goolsby
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<p=20class=3DMsoNormal=20style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20Roger=20Kemp=20viperdoc@mindspring.com
To:=20<st1:PersonName=20w:st=3D"on">yak-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName>
Sent:=20Thu,=2030=20Mar=202006=2012:23:20=20-0600
Subject:=20Re:=20Yak-List:=20Re:=20Yak-List:=20Max=20X-wind?To:=20<st1:PersonName=20w:st=3D"on">yak-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName>
<div=20id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_c7826061-70f0-4691-aae4-6c53daa94c16">
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Shack!=20Two's=20off=20dry!
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Doc
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<blockquote=20style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid=20black=201.5pt;padding:0in=200in=200in=204.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
<span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:<font
size=3D2=20face=3DArial><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20<a
');"
title=3D"Valkyre1@comcast.net">Valkyre1
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:=20<font=20size=3D2
face=3DArial><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a
');"
title=3D"yak-list@matronics.com">yak-list@matronics.com
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:<font=20size=3D2
face=3DArial><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=203/30/2006=2010:24:38
AM
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:<font=20size=3D2
face=3DArial><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20Re:=20Yak-List:=20Re:
Yak-List:=20Max=20X-wind?To:=20<st1:PersonName=20w:st=3D"on">yak-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>
<span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks=20Blitz.=20That=20sounds=20about=20right=20for=20less=20tail=20surface
but=20I=20expect=20to=20hear=20from=20Brian=20with=20the=20real-deal=20soon=20as=20you
said.=20-Val<font
size=3D2=20face=3DVerdana><span=20style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>
<!--=20end=20of=20AOLMsgPart_2_c7826061-70f0-4691-aae4-6c53daa94c16=20-->
<span=20style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>
This=20email=20has=20been=20scanned=20by=20the=20MessageLabs=20Email=20Security=20System.
For=20more=20information=20please=20visit=20http://www.messagelabs.com/email
This=20e-mail=20message=20and=20any=20documents=20accompanying=20this=20e-mail=20transmission=20contain=20proprietary=20information=20of=20Bell=20Microproducts=20or=20one=20or=20more=20of=20its=20subsidiaries,=20the=20contents=20of=20which=20may=20be=20legal
Message 22
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Jim,
Why not stage out of LAL just like NATA will? They will do their mass arrival on
Monday from Sebring. Tuesday would require them launching from LAL as well.
Maybe Wayne is still fuzzy on the schedule??
Craig Payne
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> Yes, I now know what that stupid ass moto I see on T-shirts and aviation
> coffee cups means now! "The second greatest thing man does is FLYING."
> The first is LANDING!" That dude was a TAIL DRAGGER!
Congratulations and welcome to the club. The only time a student has had
me in fear is when I have been teaching tail-wheel transition.
Now you know why they turn the boat into the wind too. ;-)
Brian
Message 24
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| Subject: | SNF Schedule Update |
Craig,
Sorry I did not plan accordingly and am going to miss it. Had an interesting experience
at the AUO fly-in though. Seems the heavy iron was kind of uh should
I say grounded because they were not going to be given enough fuel by their "sponors"
to cover them flying while there and getting home! Some of the guys were
asking alot of questions about our "cheap" warbirds.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
Sent: 3/30/2006 2:09:09 PM
Subject: Yak-List: SNF Schedule Update
Word is that the Night airshow will be held Friday night. This means those who
wish to attend my hanger party may do so without skipping the Saturday Warbirds
Banquet and miss out on an opportunity to "bond" with folks that have REAL warbirds,
not cheap Chinese Junk like I fly :
<
Apparently the Leeward flyout will be Friday also; should be a laid back, fun kinda
day.
Craig Payne
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> You might not want to use flap in a real cross wind. You are adding
> additional surface area for the wind to act on and thus cause more
> drift. Also as one gets into ground effect with flap out the airplane
> will be lighter on the gear and the airplane will drift easier after
> touch down.
I figured that comment would be controversial because it goes against
normally taught procedure. Normally I would agree with you that one
should reduce the amount of flaps for a crosswind landing and indeed
that is what I teach in other aircraft. Simple, slotted, and fowler
flaps substantially reduce stall speed and require greater bank angle at
touchdown.
Since the flaps in the CJ6A do not decrease the stall speed by any
appreciable amount you aren't going to have any appreciable difference
in bank angle at touchdown. The increased drag gives me better speed
control while still in the air and slows the airplane more quickly when
on the ground thus getting the weight on the wheels.
I treat the CJ6A as a special case in this respect.
> A "firm" landing is also preferred, a "greaser" will only
> cause you to expose the airplane to the wind longer and thus increasing
> drift as you slow down.
Agreed. The real key is to keep flying the airplane until it is stopped
AND tied down. Once I actually had an airplane I was taxiing (about 15
kts ground speed) lift off in a strong gust. Since I was already
"flying" the airplane it turned out to be a non event.
Brian Lloyd
brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
Message 26
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Bill,
Drove the upper left hand exhaust piece to the airport myself. Shipped via
Fed Ex priority overnight. Sure wish I could be there too, give my best to
all. Tracking number is 805162194516
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Mills
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:51 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sun&Fun
Hey Jim,
Thanx for the offer of Saturday. It turns out that the stainless wont be
here in time, so Doug Sapp is sending me just that one piece, and I can get
that on no problem myself.
See you next week
Bill Mills
Regional Sales Manager
Total Tec Systems
South East US
386 447 1118
bill.mills@totaltec.com
" Because I fly.... I envy no man "
--
From: cjpilot710@aol.com [mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:54 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Sun&Fun
Troops,
Still out with bombers but should head home tomorrow.
Just talked to Wayne Boggs who will the airboss at S&F. They are planning
a mass warbird arrival (like at OSH) on Tuesday (April 4th around 1400L) for
that part of the airshow. This is the very first I've heard of it.
What I know at this point is that the NATA guys are planning to come up
from thier formation clinic down in Seabring to the show. Since the RPA
members elected not to stay at Zeferhills this year and instead stay at LAL
that precludes us from arriving in mass to the show.
However I'd like to plan the following. All those participating in the
show be at Zeferhills as early as possible on Tuesday morning. There we can
plan we can a mass formation for a fly over and arrival back into LAL as
part of the warbird part of the show. That will be the only part of the
show that day, the arrival.
The rest of the show days will be flown from LAL.
My cell phone is 386-559-1943.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:23:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To: yak-list@matronics.com
Shack! Two's off dry!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Valkyre1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 3/30/2006 10:24:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List: Max X-wind?To:
yak-list@matronics.com
Thanks Blitz. That sounds about right for less tail surface but I expect
to hear from Brian with the "real-deal" soon as you said. -Val
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Max X-windMax X-windMax |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Brian,
Thanks. After skating on my nose for all my career, I made the jump to
dragging my tail.
A new set of muscle memories to develope and a new challenge. One thing for
sure, when you sit that far aft, you sure can feel the direction change
before you see nose begin to drift!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/30/2006 4:45:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Max X-windMax X-windMax
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Roger Kemp wrote:
>
> > Yes, I now know what that stupid ass moto I see on T-shirts and aviation
> > coffee cups means now! "The second greatest thing man does is FLYING."
> > The first is LANDING!" That dude was a TAIL DRAGGER!
>
> Congratulations and welcome to the club. The only time a student has had
> me in fear is when I have been teaching tail-wheel transition.
>
> Now you know why they turn the boat into the wind too. ;-)
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! |
Hi Barry,
Neither my brother, Steve, nor I could get our reservations for 5days/4nights
to go through. Suggestions. Thanks, Blitz
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: ARS V Update - REGISTRATION OPEN!!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barry" <barry@flyredstar.org>
Kill the web administrator! [Wink] Contact Deon, he's in control of the registration
module...
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25495#25495
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