Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - Craig Payne (Stephen Fox)
2. 08:09 AM - email problems (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 08:26 AM - SunNfun (Hans Oortman)
4. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: [INFO]ACM possible issues (Brian Lloyd)
5. 01:28 PM - Re: ACM possible issues (Sarah Tobin)
6. 01:45 PM - Matronics Email List Wiki! (Matt Dralle)
7. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: ACM possible issues (Brian Lloyd)
8. 03:57 PM - Re: Matronics Email List Wiki! (Brian Lloyd)
9. 05:40 PM - Re: ACM/first x-cntry (Sarah Tobin)
10. 06:24 PM - CJ6A history article (Brian Lloyd)
11. 11:32 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
12. 11:35 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
Craig Or anyone -
Could you contact me off list with your contact info. Steve Johnson
(Yak driver) is down @ Sun 'n' Fun and is trying to reach you.
Thanks,
Steve Fox
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Anyone that has emailed me and not received a reply, I have been
experiencing email problems for about 3 days. Please resend your emails to
me at my Hotmail account, adsavarese@hotmail.com, and I will reply ASAP.
Thanks very much.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-2141 (office)
334-546-8182 (cell)
www.yak-52.com
Message 3
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Wishing everybody going to Sun & Fun beautifull weather and lots of fun.
Next year I will be there as well.
Hans
Yak driver from Holland!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: [INFO]ACM possible issues |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sarah Tobin wrote:
I am replying to this because it was in reply to a message I sent. OTOH,
I am not sure you were specifically addressing this to me.
> Point to be had is: take a reality check and know your limitations.
> Pre-brief all form flights, even if they have been done a million
> times. Pretend there is a nebie in the group all the time and if not,
> laugh about the good times later after a brewskie.
Seems reasonable to me. Anything we can do to *help* others to fly
safely seems to me to be a good thing.
I think I have said this before but most people still seem to read me
wrong. I think people should be able to do what the way to do in their
own airplane. That includes acro, ACM, form, ground attack, spot
landings, wearing flowered tropical shirts, or whatever floats your
boat. I think that other people should then leave them alone. As long as
it doesn't cause risk to those around you then, what the hey, knock
yourself out!
What I just don't understand is why this attitude gives heartburn to so
many people on this list? Is this an ex-military thing that somehow I am
against you if I'm not with you or what? I agree, my approach to a lot
of what we take for granted is unorthodox. I like to think that it is
because I think about it and then go try it out to see. (Kind of like
the crosswind landing thing with flaps in a CJ6A -- unorthodox but it
works.)
So I would really like to understand how this works before I give up.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: ACM possible issues |
I am with you Brian, that is why I said what I said, seems to be so many people
placing so many rules on these issues when the basic foundation of knowing where
you are supposed to be when is the really important thing. I hear ya on doing
whatever you want to in your own a/c but in formation...you can come over
and swap paint with me anytime you feel like it, ya know what I mean?
I just felt like putting in my two cents to focus on what is important that is
all. Sorry. I am just really safety conscience and at times on this list it
seems that there is an occasional lackadaisical attitude toward activities that
are inherently dangerous and it has worried me.
Smash
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
Sarah Tobin wrote:
I am replying to this because it was in reply to a message I sent. OTOH,
I am not sure you were specifically addressing this to me.
> Point to be had is: take a reality check and know your limitations.
> Pre-brief all form flights, even if they have been done a million
> times. Pretend there is a nebie in the group all the time and if not,
> laugh about the good times later after a brewskie.
Seems reasonable to me. Anything we can do to *help* others to fly
safely seems to me to be a good thing.
I think I have said this before but most people still seem to read me
wrong. I think people should be able to do what the way to do in their
own airplane. That includes acro, ACM, form, ground attack, spot
landings, wearing flowered tropical shirts, or whatever floats your
boat. I think that other people should then leave them alone. As long as
it doesn't cause risk to those around you then, what the hey, knock
yourself out!
What I just don't understand is why this attitude gives heartburn to so
many people on this list? Is this an ex-military thing that somehow I am
against you if I'm not with you or what? I agree, my approach to a lot
of what we take for granted is unorthodox. I like to think that it is
because I think about it and then go try it out to see. (Kind of like
the crosswind landing thing with flaps in a CJ6A -- unorthodox but it
works.)
So I would really like to understand how this works before I give up.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Matronics Email List Wiki! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I have added a new feature to the Email List Forums at Matronics called a Wiki. What's "Wiki" you ask? A Wiki is a website. You go to it and browse just like you would any other web site. The difference is, you can change it. You can put anything you want on this web site without having to be a web designer or even being the owner. You can write a new page just like writing an email message on the BBS. You don't need to send it off to anyone to install on the site. It is kind of like a Blog (weblog) in which anyone can post. Here is a great page on where the term Wiki came from and what it means in the context of a website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki
So on to the new Matronics Email List Wiki... I've created this site for anyone
from any of the Email Lists to use. I envision that there are a great many
things that can be added to this new Wiki since there are always new and interesting
tidbits of useful information traversing the Lists.
Off the main Matronics Email List Wiki page, you will find a link called "Community
Portal". Here you will find more links to stubs for all the various Lists
found at Matronics (and a few other links). Brian Lloyd and others from the
Yak-List have already begun adding content in a number of areas. Bob Nuckolls
of AeroElectric fame has added a great article on "Ageing Aircraft".
I have discussed the new Matronics Email List Wiki with Tedd McHenry and Dwight Frye of the RV Wiki Site and they have decided to merge their site over onto the new Matronics Wiki server giving everyone a single source for information on RV building and flying! This migration will begin today and you should be able to find all of the content currently found at www.rvwiki.org moved over to the Matronics Wiki within a few days.
To make edits to the Matronics Wiki, you will need to have a login account on the
Matronics Wiki and I have disabled anonymous edits. This protects the Wiki
site from automated spam engines and other nuisances that could compromise the
data at the site.
Signing up for an account is fast and easy and begins by clicking on the "create
an account or log in" link in the upper right hand corner of any page. Note
that you do not have to have a login or be logged in to view any of the content.
The Matronics Email List Wiki is YOUR Wiki! It is only as useful as the content
found within. The concept of the Wiki is that the people the use it and update
it. If you've got an interesting procedure for doing something, MAKE A WIKI
PAGE ON IT! You can even upload pictures. Saw something interesting at a
flyin? MAKE A WIKI PAGE ON IT! Don't be shy, this is YOUR site to share information
with others with similar interests.
Here is a users guide on using the Wiki implemented at Matronics: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents This gives a lot of great information on how to get started editing pages.
And finally, here is the URL for the Matronics Email List Wiki:
http://wiki.matronics.com
Brian Lloyd has written an excellent introduction to Wikis on the front page.
I encourage you to read it over, then drill into the "Community Portal" and HAVE
FUN!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ACM possible issues |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sarah Tobin wrote:
> I am with you Brian, that is why I said what I said, seems to be so many
> people placing so many rules on these issues when the basic foundation
> of knowing where you are supposed to be when is the really important
> thing. I hear ya on doing whatever you want to in your own a/c but in
> formation...you can come over and swap paint with me anytime you feel
> like it, ya know what I mean?
Yeah? Works for me -- all except for the swapping paint part. :-) I
believe that it is a mortal sin to hurt an airplane. God created man so
there would be airplanes. It is our duty to love them and care for them.
> I just felt like putting in my two cents to focus on what is important
> that is all. Sorry. I am just really safety conscience and at times on
> this list it seems that there is an occasional lackadaisical attitude
> toward activities that are inherently dangerous and it has worried me.
And I agree with you 100%. Every individual's goal should be to Do No
Harm. I know we want to make sure no one does harm to themselves but I
just don't see how you can force it. Sure, in a military organization
you can enforce it through the chain of command but we aren't military.
The best I see us doing is to Do It Right and be inviting and inclusive
so that the noobs will want to Do It Right too. I just don't see how
anyone can "enforce" anything.
Well, whatever.
Y'all be careful out there, y'hear?
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Matronics Email List Wiki! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Well, Matt has finally announced it. I have been working on it and Gus
Fraiser has put the manual for the SP-91.
The original purpose was to organize the good information that flies by
on the mailing lists and give it a good, permanent home. If you recall,
I offered to organize the Jeff Linebaugh's EP series and the information
that came back from it. This is where I intend to do that.
But the real key is that anyone can add anything they think is important
or useful. For example, there is a "current events" section. If you and
some buds are going out flying tomorrow afternoon, put it on the current
events page. Then others can see and join in. You can always take it
back off again tomorrow night.
If you want information about something, put up a placeholder and then
holler. That way someone can come along and fill in something. Someone
else can come in and add more information.
Perhaps the biggest concern I have heard about this has been, "what if I
put up information and someone changes it to put up wrong information?"
Valid point. I have two responses to this:
1. people already do that on the mailing list and it just gets corrected;
2. you can go back and fix it, perhaps adding more information to
clarify why the other information was wrong.
I am hoping that people will dive in and start fleshing this out. I
would like to see it turn into the comprehensive on-line aviation
encyclopedia. And it has the advantage that, if YOU think it is
important YOU can put it up there. You don't have to convince someone
else that they should put in time to put something up there for you.
Bon apetit'!
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ACM/first x-cntry |
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
God created man so there would be airplanes. It is our duty to love them and
care for them.
-Great attitude! I love that! :)
I just don't see how anyone can "enforce" anything.
-True enough, I guess we have to trust each other, what a thought!
Oh, on a happier note...Yesterday, I flew my Yak 55 from Ricky B's hangar to
his new home in Oklahoma (at least for the next couple years until the AF decides
to move me again). First x-cntry in him and it was full of adventure. My
air to ground comms went out, I was txmitting but not receiving, that made me
change my mid course destination to a non-towered airport (Dodge City vice Garden
City), didn't feel like dealing with light gun signals and sqk'n nordo, etc.
Did a go-around there, didn't like the winds on my chosen rnwy when I got
down low...hey gimme a break it's like my 3rd landing in the a/c. Haha. Landed
perfectly after that, refueled then apparently I didn't use enough brut force
to start him back up and was only engaging the starter half way...shit didn't
know you had to be a body builder to start an airplane, haha, where is my
key?!?! So, I depleted the air supply. This is where the fun began, had to get
the mx dude to come over with some Nitro to
refill me and he couldn't find the right adapter, etc. Well, about an hour later
I was full and rarin' to go. Did find out though from the mx dude that apparently
there is a guy on the field there at DDC that has 3 Yaks. He wasn't
certain what type, but he knew they were round motors and he described what sounded
like a 55, a 52 and a 50. Anyone know who that is? I was pleasantly surprised
that someone in Kansas had quite the collection of Russian a/c. Anyway,
I made it home to El Reno safe and sound and with a little bit too much smash
on the final landing, oh well, I am still learning, and there is a reason I
got that call sign! Thank God it's a forgiving a/c! :)
Smash
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | CJ6A history article |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
I just finished loading Pappy's great article on the history of the CJ6A
on the Wiki.
You can find it but going to the Wiki, clicking on the Community Portal
link, selecting "Nanchang CJ6A", and then clicking on the link under
"History".
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 11
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
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- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Other Matronics Email List Services
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