Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:39 AM - Re: glide ratios (Fraser, Gus)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: A pilots view (Valkyre1)
3. 06:56 AM - Re: glide ratios (Valkyre1)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: glide ratios (Brian Lloyd)
5. 08:09 AM - Re: glide ratios (Kevin Pilling)
6. 08:37 AM - Re: glide ratios (Roger Kemp)
7. 08:43 AM - Re: glide ratios (Scooter)
8. 08:58 AM - Re: glide ratios (Kevin Pilling)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: glide ratios (Brian Lloyd)
10. 09:53 AM - Re: glide ratios (Kevin Pilling)
11. 10:28 AM - Throttle stuck (Barry Hancock)
12. 10:42 AM - Re: glide ratios (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 10:42 AM - Re: glide ratios (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 10:50 AM - Re: glide ratios (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: glide ratios (Roger Kemp)
16. 12:34 PM - Re: glide ratios (Brian Lloyd)
17. 12:51 PM - Re: glide ratios (A. Dennis Savarese)
18. 01:24 PM - Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Brian Lloyd)
19. 02:42 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (A. Dennis Savarese)
20. 03:02 PM - Re: glide ratios (Roger Kemp)
21. 03:28 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Dave Laird)
22. 03:34 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Brian Lloyd)
23. 04:39 PM - Re: glide ratios (Cliff Umscheid)
24. 07:37 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Roger Bieberdorf)
25. 08:08 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (JOE HOWSE)
26. 08:18 PM - Re: glide ratios (Brian Lloyd)
27. 08:22 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Roger Kemp)
28. 08:22 PM - Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser@gs.com>
Return to Sopwith Camel days and pump the mag switch. Stay lower than normal
on power. Switch off the mag then climb to pattern hopefully you will be at
the right final speed after your boost climb. At that point a combination of
mag and side slip to make the runway. Does anyone have an idea at what speed
the prop stops turning ?
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Yak-List: glide ratios
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Tim, Dennis, Brian et al--
Here's one to try (maybe) next time you're out flying, just for fun and
training:"
You are flying along and its time to land. Problem--the throttle linkage
separates itself from the carburetor leaving the throttle stuck wide open.
Otherwise, everything is operating normally. You are near the runway. How to
get down?
This actually happened to Bud Granley a couple of years ago while he was
flying the Unlimited racer "Furias" at Reno and lapping at over 400 mph.
Nice little Hawker Sea Fury with a great big PW 4360 strapped on the front.
BTW he landed with no damage and gas in the tank and, no, he didn't just
pull the mixture, speaking of manhole covers.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
wild.blue@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0cs5r/index.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: A pilots view |
Thank you Tim.
What a beautiful and accurate tribute to a profession and a group of people that
I will always love. Currently under fire and fighting for it's life, it's always
seemed to raise a dichotomy of emotions from those who don't understand
it.. respect-resentment, envy-antipathy. Where everything is expected of pilots,
little credit is given for a continueous and almost spotless record of delivering
those expectations. Little acknowledgement is asked by us either, only
that we be given the tools to continue to do our jobs well and safely.
Pilots sometimes lose sight of the fact that we are priviledged to live in a world
and share experiences that most of humanity will never know, much less understand.
We give them a taste of it however, when we go roaring by at airshows,
shoot a base to final to the airport, unaware of being observed, while some
overworked ground pounder sits in their car on the freeway as we fly overhead
and says "WOW! What was THAT?!" We wake up their sense of wonder. We open their
minds to an awareness of endless possibility and an excitement about life that
they may have lost.
Most fledgling pilots are born when some veteren sees a gawky kid hanging on an
airport fence with a hungry look in their eyes. Inevitably the "old pro" will
stop their machine, slide the canopy back and yell "Hey kid, what are you waiting
for? Get in here and let's go flying!" We recognize each other, even if
we've never met. After all, some old veteran pilot probably did the same for
us when we were the one hanging on the fence.
Fly on guys and ladys, fly on -
-Val
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded? Sounds like it would if it's stuck
wide open and immediate action isn't taken.
What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by the on/off
approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even an option here.)
- Val
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Valkyre1 wrote:
> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag
in the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That
is why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or
the primer.
> Sounds like it would if it's
> stuck wide open and immediate action isn't taken.
Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by the
> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even an
> option here.)
This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground in
one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the engine
at that point.
And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage
during pre-flight, hmmm?
One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that
moved the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
easy whilst in the air.
Stick to the Mags.
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> Valkyre1 wrote:
>> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
>
> The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag in
> the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That is
> why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or the
> primer.
>
>> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action isn't
>> taken.
>
> Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
>
>> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by the
>> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even an
>> option here.)
>
> This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground in
> one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
> possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
> landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the engine
> at that point.
>
> And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage during
> pre-flight, hmmm?
>
> One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that moved
> the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
This is new information. I always close the fuel shutoff in the cockpit
when I am pulling the fuel filter screen. Open it back up after the screen
is re-inserted and safety wired. I have not seen a reset mechanism under
the cowl for the shut off. Just the mechanical linkage is all I have seen.
We test it every year at the time of annual.
What am I missing?
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Kevin Pilling <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/6/2006 10:16:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
> easy whilst in the air.
>
> Stick to the Mags.
>
> kp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > Valkyre1 wrote:
> >> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
> >
> > The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag
in
> > the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That is
> > why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or the
> > primer.
> >
> >> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action
isn't
> >> taken.
> >
> > Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
> >
> >> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by
the
> >> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even
an
> >> option here.)
> >
> > This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground
in
> > one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
> > possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
> > landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the
engine
> > at that point.
> >
> > And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage
during
> > pre-flight, hmmm?
> >
> > One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that
moved
> > the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >
> > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > http://wiki.matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Is this true? You talking about the red fuel shutoff handle in the Yak-52? Or
is this a Yak-50 thing?
pilling.k(at)btconnect.co wrote:
> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
> easy whilst in the air.
>
> Stick to the Mags.
>
> kp
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=26744#26744
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Dunno......I'm going by the Russian Pilot Notes as supplied with my
a/c.........is it possibly the colloquial translation.....but if so...why
safety wire it open ?
Until I'm proved wrong, or have an in-flight fire, I'll leave its safety
wire intact.
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> This is new information. I always close the fuel shutoff in the cockpit
> when I am pulling the fuel filter screen. Open it back up after the screen
> is re-inserted and safety wired. I have not seen a reset mechanism under
> the cowl for the shut off. Just the mechanical linkage is all I have seen.
> We test it every year at the time of annual.
> What am I missing?
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Kevin Pilling <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 4/6/2006 10:16:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>
>> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
>> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
>> easy whilst in the air.
>>
>> Stick to the Mags.
>>
>> kp
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Valkyre1 wrote:
>> >> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
>> >
>> > The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag
> in
>> > the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That is
>> > why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or the
>> > primer.
>> >
>> >> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action
> isn't
>> >> taken.
>> >
>> > Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
>> >
>> >> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by
> the
>> >> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even
> an
>> >> option here.)
>> >
>> > This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground
> in
>> > one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
>> > possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
>> > landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the
> engine
>> > at that point.
>> >
>> > And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage
> during
>> > pre-flight, hmmm?
>> >
>> > One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that
> moved
>> > the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>> > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>> >
>> > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>> > .
>> > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> > http://wiki.matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Kevin Pilling wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to
> dead stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the
> cowl. Not easy whilst in the air.
In the CJ6A it is just an on/off valve. Are you sure it is a "once you
turn it off you are screwed" type valve? That just doesn't make any
sense as having someone accidentally pull it guarantees an immediate
emergency landing with no recovery from the error.
> Stick to the Mags.
I want to find out about the fuel shut-off first.
Brian Lloyd
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
I'll dig out the weighty tomb and read again.
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Kevin Pilling wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>
>> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to
>> dead stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the
>> cowl. Not easy whilst in the air.
>
> In the CJ6A it is just an on/off valve. Are you sure it is a "once you
> turn it off you are screwed" type valve? That just doesn't make any
> sense as having someone accidentally pull it guarantees an immediate
> emergency landing with no recovery from the error.
>
>> Stick to the Mags.
>
> I want to find out about the fuel shut-off first.
>
> Brian Lloyd
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> You are flying along and its time to land. Problem--the throttle
> linkage
> separates itself from the carburetor leaving the throttle stuck wide
> open.
> Otherwise, everything is operating normally. You are near the runway.
> How to
> get down?
Speaking of Sun n Fun and this post, it harkened me back to a similar
problem that I faced. I was in tight formation with Walt Fricke and
Jeff Linebaugh climbing out of our final pass at Leeward (still one of
my fondest flying memories) when my prop control seemed to not respond.
As we climbed out of the area to begin our trek north (heading home)
we went to cruise and sure enough I confirmed that my that I did not
have any governing capability from the cockpit. Not a huge deal as we
were headed to an airport 20 miles away and the engine was running
fine, just locked at 74%.
I radioed Walt and Jeff to tell them my problem and we decided to press
ahead to an airport where there would be better support and a hotel
should I have to spend the night.
Well, bad turned to worse when I went to adjust my throttle and got NO
response there, either! I looked down to the friction knob and much to
my horror there it lay on the floor of the cockpit....without the
friction assembly in the throttle quadrant levers, it had no fulcrum or
leverage and was just bowing up and down without moving the
linkage....no prop control, no throttle control...G-R-E-A-T, just
great! Good thing was the engine was making good power and the wings
were still on, but the airplane now had my full freakin' attention.
What to do?
Well, with the M14P, pulling the mixture isn't an option, so just how
was I going to get this thing on the ground....and off the runway? I
separated from Walt and Jeff and came in as a single ship behind them,
told the tower I had a stuck throttle but thought I could manage
getting her down the overhead would be best/safest. The rest is pretty
simple, really. Break mid-field, pull some G's to get some of the
speed off, kill the engine with the mag switch, and play the landing to
arrive about 1/3 down the runway dead sticked. All worked just fine
and I popped the mags for a heartbeat in the flare to help arrest the
sink rate and touched down. From there I was like the driver who
really annoys you on the freeway....mags on when I needed a boost of
thrust to taxi, to off...kept that rolling all the way to the FBO ramp
where I squarely had the attention of anyone with hearing. ;)
That trip was memorable for many reasons, Murphy was my best friend for
nearly all of the trip...but at least now I have stories to tell my
grandkids. ;)
Barry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Kevin,
Why do you say it needs resetting under the cowl? You should be able to
move the red fire control handle in either cockpit from on (forward) to off
(back) and vice versa without having to open the cowling. If you can shut
the fuel off from the cockpit but not back on and as you say, you have to
open the cowling to reset it, something is definitely not rigged properly.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
> easy whilst in the air.
>
> Stick to the Mags.
>
> kp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> Valkyre1 wrote:
>>> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
>>
>> The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag in
>> the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That is
>> why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or the
>> primer.
>>
>>> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action isn't
>>> taken.
>>
>> Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
>>
>>> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by the
>>> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even an
>>> option here.)
>>
>> This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground in
>> one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
>> possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
>> landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the engine
>> at that point.
>>
>> And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage during
>> pre-flight, hmmm?
>>
>> One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that moved
>> the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Nothing Doc.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> This is new information. I always close the fuel shutoff in the cockpit
> when I am pulling the fuel filter screen. Open it back up after the screen
> is re-inserted and safety wired. I have not seen a reset mechanism under
> the cowl for the shut off. Just the mechanical linkage is all I have seen.
> We test it every year at the time of annual.
> What am I missing?
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Kevin Pilling <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 4/6/2006 10:16:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>
>> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to dead
>> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
>> easy whilst in the air.
>>
>> Stick to the Mags.
>>
>> kp
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>
>>
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Valkyre1 wrote:
>> >> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
>> >
>> > The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag
> in
>> > the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That is
>> > why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or the
>> > primer.
>> >
>> >> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action
> isn't
>> >> taken.
>> >
>> > Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
>> >
>> >> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by
> the
>> >> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even
> an
>> >> option here.)
>> >
>> > This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground
> in
>> > one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
>> > possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
>> > landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the
> engine
>> > at that point.
>> >
>> > And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage
> during
>> > pre-flight, hmmm?
>> >
>> > One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that
> moved
>> > the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>> > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>> > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>> >
>> > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>> > .
>> > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> > http://wiki.matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I strongly suggest you test it to make sure you CAN shut the fuel off. I
had one 52 where it could not be shut down because of two things happening
simultaneously. 1- A P-lead had come off the right mag and 2 - the fuel
shut off/fire control handle would not shut the fuel off because the
adjustment on the over center arm by the coarse fuel screen was improperly
adjusted. The only way I was able to shut it down was to stuff a towel into
the carburetor intake scoop. I was behind the nose wheel and reached
forward to stuff the towel in the intake. I also turned the primer pump to
the right (or it could have been left - but that doesn't matter) to force
the engine to suck more air and lean itself out. It finally choked itself
off.
Try shutting the engine down at idle by pulling the fire control/fuel shut
off. If it doesn't shut down, you need to adjust the over center arm and
control rod.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Dunno......I'm going by the Russian Pilot Notes as supplied with my
> a/c.........is it possibly the colloquial translation.....but if so...why
> safety wire it open ?
> Until I'm proved wrong, or have an in-flight fire, I'll leave its safety
> wire intact.
>
> kp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> This is new information. I always close the fuel shutoff in the cockpit
>> when I am pulling the fuel filter screen. Open it back up after the
>> screen
>> is re-inserted and safety wired. I have not seen a reset mechanism under
>> the cowl for the shut off. Just the mechanical linkage is all I have
>> seen.
>> We test it every year at the time of annual.
>> What am I missing?
>> Doc
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Kevin Pilling <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: 4/6/2006 10:16:13 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling"
>>> <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>>
>>> Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to
>>> dead
>>> stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl. Not
>>> easy whilst in the air.
>>>
>>> Stick to the Mags.
>>>
>>> kp
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:21 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>>>
>>>
>>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Valkyre1 wrote:
>>> >> Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded?
>>> >
>>> > The prop governor should prevent that but there is a response time lag
>> in
>>> > the governor that might allow for a momentary engine overspeed. That
>>> > is
>>> > why I would probably control engine power with the fuel shut-off or
>>> > the
>>> > primer.
>>> >
>>> >> Sounds like it would if it's stuck wide open and immediate action
>> isn't
>>> >> taken.
>>> >
>>> > Well, that is the scenario -- throttle stuck wide open.
>>> >
>>> >> What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by
>> the
>>> >> on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even
>> an
>>> >> option here.)
>>> >
>>> > This is an emergency procedure to get the airplane back on the ground
>> in
>>> > one piece. We are talking about an engine tear-down and inspection vs.
>>> > possible loss of the aircraft and pilot in the case of an off-airport
>>> > landing. I wouldn't be worrying about the possible effects on the
>> engine
>>> > at that point.
>>> >
>>> > And when was the last time anyone inspected their throttle linkage
>> during
>>> > pre-flight, hmmm?
>>> >
>>> > One of the things I recall on a spam can (Cessna?) is a spring that
>> moved
>>> > the throttle to about 1/2 if the linkage came off.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>>> > brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>>> > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>> >
>>> > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . .
>>> > .
>>> > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>> > http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Scooter,
Its a YAK 52 issue that I have never seen. We do not safety wire our fuel
shut off valves. There surely is a Russian pilot running around with a call
sign like Handles, IQ ('quisitive Queer), Cg (Curious George), or Switches.
That would be the one that pulled the leaver to see what it would do!!
That would probably be the reason for someone safety wiring the fuel shut
off lever.
But that was just a thought on my part!
Have you ever tried priming your YAK with the fuel shutoff lever closed?
That will get your attention also.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Scooter <yakk52@verizon.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/6/2006 10:52:57 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: glide ratios
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> Is this true? You talking about the red fuel shutoff handle in the
Yak-52? Or is this a Yak-50 thing?
>
>
> pilling.k(at)btconnect.co wrote:
> > Not a good idea to use the fuel shut-off in a Yak unless you want to
dead
> > stick it in. Its a once only use and needs resetting under the cowl.
Not
> > easy whilst in the air.
> >
> > Stick to the Mags.
> >
> > kp
> > ---
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=26744#26744
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Kevin Pilling wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> Dunno......I'm going by the Russian Pilot Notes as supplied with my
> a/c.........is it possibly the colloquial translation.....but if
> so...why safety wire it open ?
My answer to this would be, "To keep someone from trying to take off
with the fuel turned off." OTOH, I doubt there would be enough fuel in
the strainer to get the airplane on the runway and airborne even if you
turned it off just as you turned onto the runway for take-off.
Perhaps a better reason would be to prevent someone from turning off the
fuel when they are trying to activate the alternate air (at least in the
CJ6A that is a more likely scenario).
> Until I'm proved wrong, or have an in-flight fire, I'll leave its safety
> wire intact.
It isn't that hard to check on the ground. Cut the safety wire, turn the
emergency shut-off to the off position, turn it back on, and verify fuel
flow. If the fuel is back on, redo the safety wire. If the fuel is off
and must be reset under the cowl (which I doubt), reset it, redo the
safety wire, and then tell the Yak-50 users here that their aircraft is
different from the Yak-52 and CJ6A. Cost? about 1 minute of time and a
piece of safety wire.
It is probably not a good idea to make assumptions about aircraft
systems. It is much better to know for sure by testing them. As you say,
even errors in translation could be a problem.
This is a really interesting point about documentation. A fair amount of
what has been written is in error (including newspapers, text books, and
operating manuals). The only way to know for sure that something is the
way we think it is, is to try it and see. Sure, take care to make sure
that testing will not involve any risk to aircraft or pilot but make
sure you understand how it works.
Brian Lloyd
brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Brian,
On the 52 the emergency air is on the opposite side of the cockpit. Not
chance of messing up there.
A great way to check and see if the fire control/fuel shutoff is functioning
properly without running the engine is to pull the fire control/fuel shut
off back, then turn the primer pump to the left (system side) and attempt to
pressurize the fuel system. After a few strokes, if the fuel shut off is
properly adjusted, it will be virtually impossible to push the primer pump
in. Now move the fuel shut off forward and pump the primer pump at the same
time you are doing this. The primer pump should now pump normally
immediately. If after pulling the fuel shut off closed and you begin to
pump the primer to the system side and it never feels any different than
usual, your fuel shut off arm and cable are improperly adjusted.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Kevin Pilling wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>>
>> Dunno......I'm going by the Russian Pilot Notes as supplied with my
>> a/c.........is it possibly the colloquial translation.....but if
>> so...why safety wire it open ?
>
> My answer to this would be, "To keep someone from trying to take off
> with the fuel turned off." OTOH, I doubt there would be enough fuel in
> the strainer to get the airplane on the runway and airborne even if you
> turned it off just as you turned onto the runway for take-off.
>
> Perhaps a better reason would be to prevent someone from turning off the
> fuel when they are trying to activate the alternate air (at least in the
> CJ6A that is a more likely scenario).
>
>> Until I'm proved wrong, or have an in-flight fire, I'll leave its safety
>> wire intact.
>
> It isn't that hard to check on the ground. Cut the safety wire, turn the
> emergency shut-off to the off position, turn it back on, and verify fuel
> flow. If the fuel is back on, redo the safety wire. If the fuel is off
> and must be reset under the cowl (which I doubt), reset it, redo the
> safety wire, and then tell the Yak-50 users here that their aircraft is
> different from the Yak-52 and CJ6A. Cost? about 1 minute of time and a
> piece of safety wire.
>
> It is probably not a good idea to make assumptions about aircraft
> systems. It is much better to know for sure by testing them. As you say,
> even errors in translation could be a problem.
>
> This is a really interesting point about documentation. A fair amount of
> what has been written is in error (including newspapers, text books, and
> operating manuals). The only way to know for sure that something is the
> way we think it is, is to try it and see. Sure, take care to make sure
> that testing will not involve any risk to aircraft or pilot but make
> sure you understand how it works.
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Brian,
> On the 52 the emergency air is on the opposite side of the cockpit. Not
> chance of messing up there.
>
> A great way to check and see if the fire control/fuel shutoff is
> functioning properly without running the engine is to pull the fire
> control/fuel shut off back, then turn the primer pump to the left
> (system side) and attempt to pressurize the fuel system. After a few
> strokes, if the fuel shut off is properly adjusted, it will be virtually
> impossible to push the primer pump in. Now move the fuel shut off
> forward and pump the primer pump at the same time you are doing this.
> The primer pump should now pump normally immediately. If after pulling
> the fuel shut off closed and you begin to pump the primer to the system
> side and it never feels any different than usual, your fuel shut off arm
> and cable are improperly adjusted.
With the firewall fuel shut-off closed you can't pump fuel to the carb.
Makes sense to me.
Brian
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
But if it won't shut off with the fire control handle at the rear position,
in an emergency you won't be able shut the fuel off to the carb either.
That's why it's a great little test that's easily done.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:23 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios)
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> Brian,
>> On the 52 the emergency air is on the opposite side of the cockpit. Not
>> chance of messing up there.
>>
>> A great way to check and see if the fire control/fuel shutoff is
>> functioning properly without running the engine is to pull the fire
>> control/fuel shut off back, then turn the primer pump to the left
>> (system side) and attempt to pressurize the fuel system. After a few
>> strokes, if the fuel shut off is properly adjusted, it will be virtually
>> impossible to push the primer pump in. Now move the fuel shut off
>> forward and pump the primer pump at the same time you are doing this.
>> The primer pump should now pump normally immediately. If after pulling
>> the fuel shut off closed and you begin to pump the primer to the system
>> side and it never feels any different than usual, your fuel shut off arm
>> and cable are improperly adjusted.
>
> With the firewall fuel shut-off closed you can't pump fuel to the carb.
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Same with the 50. It is just on opposite sides of the instrument panel. ER
AIR on right and Fuel Shut Off on the left.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/6/2006 2:57:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Brian,
> On the 52 the emergency air is on the opposite side of the cockpit. Not
> chance of messing up there.
>
> A great way to check and see if the fire control/fuel shutoff is
functioning
> properly without running the engine is to pull the fire control/fuel shut
> off back, then turn the primer pump to the left (system side) and attempt
to
> pressurize the fuel system. After a few strokes, if the fuel shut off is
> properly adjusted, it will be virtually impossible to push the primer
pump
> in. Now move the fuel shut off forward and pump the primer pump at the
same
> time you are doing this. The primer pump should now pump normally
> immediately. If after pulling the fuel shut off closed and you begin to
> pump the primer to the system side and it never feels any different than
> usual, your fuel shut off arm and cable are improperly adjusted.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: glide ratios
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> >
> > Kevin Pilling wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling"
<pilling.k@btconnect.com>
> >>
> >> Dunno......I'm going by the Russian Pilot Notes as supplied with my
> >> a/c.........is it possibly the colloquial translation.....but if
> >> so...why safety wire it open ?
> >
> > My answer to this would be, "To keep someone from trying to take off
> > with the fuel turned off." OTOH, I doubt there would be enough fuel in
> > the strainer to get the airplane on the runway and airborne even if you
> > turned it off just as you turned onto the runway for take-off.
> >
> > Perhaps a better reason would be to prevent someone from turning off the
> > fuel when they are trying to activate the alternate air (at least in the
> > CJ6A that is a more likely scenario).
> >
> >> Until I'm proved wrong, or have an in-flight fire, I'll leave its
safety
> >> wire intact.
> >
> > It isn't that hard to check on the ground. Cut the safety wire, turn the
> > emergency shut-off to the off position, turn it back on, and verify fuel
> > flow. If the fuel is back on, redo the safety wire. If the fuel is off
> > and must be reset under the cowl (which I doubt), reset it, redo the
> > safety wire, and then tell the Yak-50 users here that their aircraft is
> > different from the Yak-52 and CJ6A. Cost? about 1 minute of time and a
> > piece of safety wire.
> >
> > It is probably not a good idea to make assumptions about aircraft
> > systems. It is much better to know for sure by testing them. As you say,
> > even errors in translation could be a problem.
> >
> > This is a really interesting point about documentation. A fair amount of
> > what has been written is in error (including newspapers, text books, and
> > operating manuals). The only way to know for sure that something is the
> > way we think it is, is to try it and see. Sure, take care to make sure
> > that testing will not involve any risk to aircraft or pilot but make
> > sure you understand how it works.
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>>
>> Brian,
>> On the 52 the emergency air is on the opposite side of the
>> cockpit. Not
>> chance of messing up there.
It's the same on the CJ, Brain said "alternate air", not "emergency
air".
It's the carb heat air, or alternate air, lever that in the CJ is
right next to the fuel cutoff lever...
I was under the impression that yak 50's and Sukhoi's don't have carb
heat/alternate air control....I'm not sure about -52's.
comments?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> But if it won't shut off with the fire control handle at the rear
> position, in an emergency you won't be able shut the fuel off to the
> carb either. That's why it's a great little test that's easily done.
> Dennis
Oh, I understand why you might want to ensure that it not only turns on
but also shuts off. I bet hardly anyone has tested this on their airplane.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 23
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Cc: yak-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
VAL,
In ref to the M-14P
If the throttle is stuck wide open, with prop in full low pitch and the
mags are turned to the "FF" position for even a brief time--if the mag
switches are turned back to "BOTH", I guarantee the instant acceleration
and torque will get your attention when that engine comes back to life.
With the instant application of torsional forces on the engine mount an
even bigger shock may await you if the engine package leaves the
airframe. Think you can modulate the power by tweaking the mag switch?
Maybe not! Look at Dennis' report of a DUALl failure involving the loss
of the "P " lead concurrently with the malfunction of the fuel shutoff
actuator. The problem presented here points out that it is damned
difficult to shut one of these Bangers down when engine controls decide
they wont work anymore.
True, the M14P is not a P/W 3350 or an R 2800 but the engine mount
in our YAKs is a limit design calibrated proportionately to the forces
produced by the normal operation of our now 25 year old airframes,
which, in many cases, have been exposed to some extreme maneuvers as
well as changes in the molecular structure of the metal during the aging
process. My YAK 50 was flown by Victor Smolens in the World Aerobatic
Championship held in Sydney, Australia. Victor was a great pilot but his
first concern was not for the structure of the airplane. That's the
reason the Russians replaced the wings periodically on these YAK 50s
Metal fatigue is insideous and often takes place out of sight so, who
knows how much life is left in these engine mounts? And how much
torsional stress can they stand? Tweak the mags on final? If you're
slow enough and low enough, that would be an inconvenient time to
explore the parameters of the torque roll when that engine comes back to
life. Yet, we work with what we have and hope to use the airplane again
after this next landing.
CLIFF
On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:55:01 -0600 "Valkyre1" <Valkyre1@comcast.net>
writes:
Question.... would the max rpm be exceeded? Sounds like it would if it's
stuck wide open and immediate action isn't taken.
What kind of engine damage in the M14P, if any, could be expected by the
on/off approaches with fuel or mags? ( Not that doing nothing is even an
option here.)
- Val
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
The previous posts got me to questioning.....why do we shut down the CJ engine
with the mag switch while we shut down Cessnas with the fuel shut off?
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote: --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian
Lloyd
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
>
> But if it won't shut off with the fire control handle at the rear
> position, in an emergency you won't be able shut the fuel off to the
> carb either. That's why it's a great little test that's easily done.
> Dennis
Oh, I understand why you might want to ensure that it not only turns on
but also shuts off. I bet hardly anyone has tested this on their airplane.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
---------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
We do not shut down the Cessna by shutting off the fuel,
We stop, the engine with the mixture control idle cut-off.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Bieberdorf
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios)
The previous posts got me to questioning.....why do we shut down the CJ engine
with the mag switch while we shut down Cessnas with the fuel shut off?
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
>
> But if it won't shut off with the fire control handle at the rear
> position, in an emergency you won't be able shut the fuel off to the
> carb either. That's why it's a great little test that's easily done.
> Dennis
Oh, I understand why you might want to ensure that it not only turns on
but also shuts off. I bet hardly anyone has tested this on their airplane.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: glide ratios |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Cliff Umscheid wrote:
> torsional stress can they stand? Tweak the mags on final? If you're
> slow enough and low enough, that would be an inconvenient time to
> explore the parameters of the torque roll when that engine comes back
> to life. Yet, we work with what we have and hope to use the airplane
> again after this next landing.
So you experiment with the mags when you have a little altitude so you
know how the airplane is going to respond when you turn the mags on and off.
I guess I tend to be the devil's advocate here. The engine produces only
so much torque. When you switch the mags on that torque is there but it
is the same torque that the engine mount is under any other time you are
at full-throttle and high RPM. I don't think the mount is going to give way.
OTOH, if you turn the mag switch on and off rapidly you might be able to
set up a resonance that could cause a problem with the airframe or
engine mount.
So you pull the prop control all the way back. That isn't going to
change the torque much but it is going to reduce the power output of the
engine. This will make the power changes when you turn the mags on and
off less abrupt and will make the glide a bit better as the prop in
coarse-pitch/low-RPM is going to produce less drag when the engine is
not producing power and less power when the engine IS producing power.
Now your mag cuts will have less of an effect.
I still think you can modulate the power output with the fuel cut-off
lever if you are careful.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
It can be shut down with the fuel cutoff lever. The problem comes when you get
ready to light her off for the next flight. You cavitated the fuel pump and it
relies to some extent on the fuel passing by the impreller to lubricate it along
with probably cooling it to Also your start time is prolonged by the amount
of priming you have to do to get enought fuel back into the system to light
it off. You will find you are pumping that primer for a while too.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Bieberdorf
Sent: 4/6/2006 9:49:06 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios)
The previous posts got me to questioning.....why do we shut down the CJ engine
with the mag switch while we shut down Cessnas with the fuel shut off?
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>
>
> But if it won't shut off with the fire control handle at the rear
> position, in an emergency you won't be able shut the fuel off to the
> carb either. That's why it's a great little test that's easily done.
> Dennis
Oh, I understand why you might want to ensure that it not only turns on
but also shuts off. I bet hardly anyone has tested this on their airplane.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall fuel shut-off (was: glide ratios) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Bieberdorf wrote:
> The previous posts got me to questioning.....why do we shut down the CJ
> engine with the mag switch while we shut down Cessnas with the fuel shut
> off?
We don't shut off the spam cans with the fuel shut-off. We shut them off
with the idle cut-off feature of the mixture control.
But shutting off the engine with the firewall fuel shut off should be
pretty quick. I am not sure how good it is for the fuel pump to be
sucking hard against that valve. The fuel in the line should vaporize
with the low pressure but will the fuel line collapse? I am not sure it
is all that good for the fuel system.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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