Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Raptors Rule (Craig Payne)
2. 05:27 AM - Re: BFM/ACM (Tim Gagnon)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Roger Kemp)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Sarah Tobin)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Sarah Tobin)
7. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
9. 09:25 AM - Whirl Wind V-530 Blade Overhaul (Tim Gagnon)
10. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Brian Lloyd)
11. 12:33 PM - ARS V - Deadline approaching! EXTENSION (Barry Hancock)
12. 01:27 PM - [ Barry Hancoock ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
13. 01:38 PM - [ Elmar Hegenauer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
14. 01:44 PM - Re: BFM/ACM (Tim Gagnon)
15. 01:45 PM - Re: BFM/ACM (Tim Gagnon)
16. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Roger Kemp)
17. 02:06 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
18. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Brian Lloyd)
19. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Brian Lloyd)
20. 03:38 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (A. Dennis Savarese)
21. 03:51 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Brian Lloyd)
22. 04:19 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Stan Siry)
23. 05:06 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (DaBear)
24. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Daniel Fortin)
25. 06:30 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Roger Kemp)
26. 06:37 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
27. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
28. 07:16 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
29. 07:21 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (John W. Hilterman Jr.)
30. 07:42 PM - UCAVs make the jump to lightspeed (was: Raptors Rule) (Brian Lloyd)
31. 07:55 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Tim Gagnon)
32. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: Raptors Rule (Brian Lloyd)
33. 09:26 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (N13472@aol.com)
34. 10:54 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the airlifters.
Then there is always your constant need for gas......
By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and you
can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip lock bag).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28688#28688
Message 3
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Craig,
You are correct on all 3. Su, F-22, and UCAVS are going to be the next bad boys
on the block. Don't short the Block 30 & 50 Vipers, nor the Super Hornet, and
lastly the Mud Hen. They are still strong performers and air doctrine is being
rethought on the basis of all of the above. All being driven by economics. Unless
we solve our energy problems and stop our economic hemorrhaging across the
pond, we are going to have trouble funding the new weapon systems. But I diverge
to other social ills that do not need to discussed here.
Happy Easter,
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
Sent: 4/16/2006 6:28:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Tim,
It is all part of the big picture!
Happy Easter. Yourself, your family and especially your daughter are in our
prayers,
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/16/2006 7:32:04 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call
the airlifters. Then there is always your constant need for gas......
>
> By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb
and you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip
lock bag).
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28688#28688
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Oh, since we are all bowing out our chests, haha....
Here's a plug for the AWACS directed at all the fighter bubbas...
If we don't get up
You don't get off!
:)
smash
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention.
Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's
object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for the
guns kill!
Hitman
---------------------------------
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Tobin
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am tending
to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys are able
to do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance they will
unbury one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to fly
the bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers :-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
The new Suk will only be a threat to the US and Brits if US and/or Brit pilots
are flying them. Russia does not have the resourses to fly and train the way
we do and are therefore not effective with their technology.
Ask Jj or Hitman how much they would like to get their hands on a little Mig 29/look
down shoot down capability! Sweet stuff in the hands of competent fliers,
not so much in under trained ones.
Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
---------------------------------
Message 7
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Agree but you know as well as I do..."there's no kill like a guns kill!"
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's
attention. Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become
someone's object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnhilterman1@cox.net> Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for
the guns kill!
Hitman
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah <mailto:aerobaticgirl@yahoo.com> Tobin
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am
tending to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys
are able to do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance
they will unbury one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good
luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to
fly the bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers
:-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
_____
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt
=3D39663/*http:/voice.yahoo.com> call rates.
Message 8
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Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAV's. Days of
the manned fighter are numbered.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then
dart away in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway
kill, Hornets become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a
threat, if it's targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping
homework for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 9
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| Subject: | Whirl Wind V-530 Blade Overhaul |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
I would be remiss in not singing the praises of the folks at Whirl Wind and thier
overhaul of V-530 blades. Mine were in need of recondition and the airplane
was down for its first thorough annual since arriving in the US, so I sent them
off. Three weeks later (they apologized for being late on them) and they were
back swinging on my rebuilt hub. They look absolutely beautiful and were well
worth the $2100.00! I considered an MT three blade but really enjoy the V-530
pulling me around.
If your on the fence about having your blades redone or they NEED to be redone,
send them to Whirl Wind. You will not be disappointed.
(http://www.whirlwindpropellers.com/html/refinishing/refinish.shtml)
I would post a photo but for some reason something is not working.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28742#28742
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Tim Gagnon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the airlifters.
Don't you mean "trash haulers?"
> Then there is always your constant need for gas......
Yo quiero Taco Bell.
> By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and
you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip lock bag).
But it takes for f'in ever to get anywhere. I am no longer in need of
more hours for the next rating.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 11
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| Subject: | ARS V - Deadline approaching! EXTENSION |
**NOTE: DUE TO AN EMAIL SENDING ERROR, THE DEADLINE FOR ADVANCED
REGISTRATION HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO TUESDAY, APRIL 18TH**
Dear fellow Red Star Aviators:
I know many of you are busy getting your tax returns together and
otherwise toiling in the grind of life. If you anything like me you
have to schedule your fun...and I can't think of a better time to
schedule it than May 3-7... ;)
The advanced registration deadline is *Tuesday*! Sign up now for ARS V
and save yourself 10% over the full rate registration fees. Full
registration fees will now begin this Tuesday, April 18th, (previously
was Sunday, April 16th). Register now at www.allredstar.com!
FLYING EVENTS
In addition to all the formation and tactical formation training you
get at ARS, this year we're introducing a bunch of new flying events
that promise lots of good times both in the air and from an observers
standpoint - with the runway being much closer to the ramp at PTV, it
will be a much more enjoyable spectator venue.
1) Formation Challenge. Well with 3 years of great formation work in
the book, the ARS planning cell decided It is time put the "challenge"
back into the 4th annual Formation Challenge and put all your skills to
the test. Think Treasure Hunt meets TOT meets crowd pleasing formation
passes. ;) Gone are many of the subjective ground elements. Added
are rejoins, dead reckoning, TOT's, altitude separation blocks,
etc....all the things you'd be expected to do in an air show
environment. Start on time, take off on time, join up, make a photo
pass, head out, break up and find 4 undisclosed landmarks using
bearing/distance and a riddle for the landmark, rejoin, hit the TOT at
the hold point above the airport, make one pass (configuration at your
discretion), and recover using the break of your choice.
2) Carrier Landings No, we are not talking about Pappy rubmlin',
stumblin', fumblin' and flopping on a ping pong table. Were talking
about "Splash 12, call the ball!" "Roger, Ball!" Spot landings....with
a twist. Fly a carrier pattern with a 1/4 mile final, talk to the LSO,
make sure not to hit the back of the boat (yellow boards, laid flat),
and catch the 3 wire (all 4 wires simulated by flour lines). Complete
with a "Landing on the Boat" brief, "Paddles" will be out there giving
you corrections and we'll have it all on video for the Saturday night
banquet! ;)
3) CAS Demo We had such a blast doing this down in the desert that we
are hoping to put on a demo Friday night as well. This will be
dependent on our active duty guys being able to get the time off to
play the GFAC role, but the comms are interesting, and this will be a
fun primer for our Desert Thunder III in the Fall.
GROUND EVENTS
1) Lead Pilot Seminar - Are you a FAST lead pilot or planning to be?
Then this is a don't miss presentation for you! The RPA's LPS sets the
standard in the warbird world for giving lead and aspiring lead pilots
all the tools you'll need to be a more effective lead pilot.
2) Poker Night - Thursday evening we'll fire up the aviation videos
as a backdrop for our first Poker Night. The ARS staff will deal you
merchandise, and more....
3) Cinco de Mayo Ramp Party - Friday night is the annual Ramp
Party/BBQ. Impromptu formation fly-bys, a CAS demo, an upscale Taco
Bar, the ARS girls blending margaritas and a few surprises promise
another memorable Friday night...
4) Saturday Awards Banquet - A fine meal, a few awards, and one of
the best presentations in all of aviation are on tap. Brian Shul,
SR-71 pilot and author will cap off a great evening with a riveting
presentation about flying the world's fastest air breathing jet, the
SR-71 Blackbird. Sharing the world's largest private collection of
Blackbird photos, Brian takes you behind the scenes of the plane that
played a major role in winning the Cold War - a victory we enjoy every
time we mount our Red Star steeds.
HOTEL
Also, if you have not made hotel reservations, now is the time as our
block of rooms at the Best Western are filling up fast! If you call to
make a reservation without mentioning All Red Star, they will tell you
the hotel is sold out! This is because we have 80 rooms reserved!
When someone calls to make a reservation, use "All Red Star" as the
group name, which is in their computer. The confusion comes because
there are codes based on the number of days that people are staying...
3rd - 7th: CGRED
4th - 7th: CGSTAR
5th - 7th: CGREDS
6ht - 7th: CGRED1
The front desk person will ask how many days and then the code will go
along with their confirmation number. OR you can reserve your room
using these
codes...either way it is under All Red Star. The CG is Best Western's
group code...nothing to do with us; something they have to use. If you
have any questions, please contact our Event Coordinator, Amy Rose, at
bomberamy@yahoo.com.
For reservations, DO NOT use the internet. Call them at 559-781-7411.
RENTAL CARS
We will have a 15 passenger van, plus a few other vehicles on a
schedule to shuttle people back and forth from the hotel. If you would
like more flexibility, we have arranged a very convenient system for
you to rent a car for the event.
Cars INC.
1-(559) 781-9900
They will have your car at the airport when you arrive and check you in
there. When you leave, they will make arrangements for you to leave the
car and keys at the airport. (Including Sunday drop off)
Here's what the renter needs to do:
1) Inform them you are calling for the REDSTAR Discount.
2) Tell them which date and approx time you will arrive.
3 Tell them which date and approx. time you will leave.
3) Which car or van you want:
(Note: The 50 mile per day limit is the cheapest deal. The airport is
approx 7 miles from the hotel.)
SMALL:=A0=A0 FORD Escort.=A0 $22.50=A0 (50 miles per day)
Medium: FORD Taurus.=A0=A0 $27.00=A0 (50 miles per day)
Large:=A0=A0 Grand Prix.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 $31.50=A0 (50 miles per day)
SUV:=A0 Buick Rendezvous.=A0 $40.50=A0 (50 miles per day)
VAN:=A0 8 pax.=A0=A0=A0 $49.50=A0 (50 miles per day)
VAN:=A0 15 pax.=A0 $72.00=A0 (50 miles per day),=A0=A0 $90.00=A0 (100 miles per
day)
4) Have your credit card ready.
SCHEDULE AND POSTER
The ARS V daily schedule and new poster is now available for download
on the "Invitation" page of the web site.
Again, register now and save on the gas money! We hope you'll join us
and we look forward to seeing you for ARS V!
Cheers,
Barry and the ARS staff
(for the real scoop on the ARS V staff, click the "staff" button on the
web site...LOL!)
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
Message 12
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| Subject: | [ Barry Hancoock ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Barry Hancoock <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
Lists: Yak-List
Subject: Photos from Desert Thunder II CAS Mission
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com.04.16.2006/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | [ Elmar Hegenauer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Elmar Hegenauer <tamara_b@telus.net>
Lists: Yak-List
Subject: Fun in a CJ
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tamara_b@telus.net.04.16.2006/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us
whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and
I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have
carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical
supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have
seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.
We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's
that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the airframe
and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service since
1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future.
You may be able to replace a fighter with a UAV, try that with airlift.
brian wrote:
> Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > And when you fighter pukes need to get somewhere....dont forget to call the
airlifters.
> >
> >
>
> Don't you mean "trash haulers?"
>
>
> > Then there is always your constant need for gas......
> >
> >
>
> Yo quiero Taco Bell.
>
>
> > By the way, the C-130 carries the biggest gun and drops the biggest bomb and
you can also cook your own dinner and take a piss (and not in a zip lock bag).
> >
> >
>
> But it takes for f'in ever to get anywhere. I am no longer in need of
> more hours for the next rating.
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28801#28801
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
To LtCol Van Wickler:
Sir,
I am DJ Baker and I would appreciate it if you could tell me what it takes to be
an F-16 fighter pilot of the USAF. What classes should I take in high school
to help the career I want to take later in my life? What could I do to get in
the academy?
Sincerely
DJ Baker
From: VanWickler Kenneth, Lt Col, HQ AETC
Anybody want to help this poor kid from Cyberspace?
"Vee Dub"
Dear DJ,
Obviously, through no fault of your own, your young, impressionable brain has been
poisoned by the superfluous, hyped-up, "Top Gun" Media portrayal of fighter
pilots. Unfortunately, this portrayal could not be further from the truth. In
my experience, I've found most fighter pilots pompous, back-stabbing, momma's
boys with inferiority complexes, as well as being extremely over-rated aeronautically.
However, rather than dash your budding dreams of becoming a USAF pilot, I offer
the following alternative: What you REALLY want to aspire to is the exiting,
challenging, and rewarding world of TACTICAL AIRLIFT. And this, young DJ, means
one thing....the venerable workhorse, THE C-130! I can guarantee no fighter
pilot can brag that he has led a 12-ship formation down a valley at 300 ft above
the ground, while trying to interpret a 9-line to a new DZ, avoiding pop-up
threats, and coordinating with AWACS, all while eating a box lunch, with the
engineer in the back taking a piss and the navigator puking in his trash can!
I tell you, DJ, TAC Airlift is where it's at!
Where else is it legal to throw tanks, HMMWVs, and other crap out the back of an
airplane, and not even worry about it when the chute doesn't open and it torpedoes
the General's staff car! No where else can you land on a 3000' dirt strip,
kick a bunch of ammo and stuff off the ramp without even stopping, then take
off again before range control can call to tell you you've landed on the wrong
LZ! And talk about exotic travel-when C-130s go somewhere, they GO somewhere
(usually for 3 months, unfortunately). This gives you the opportunity to immerse
yourself in the local culture enough to give any natives a bad taste in
their mouths re the USAF and Americans in general, not something those strat-lift
pilots can do from their airport hotel rooms!
As far as recommendations for your course of study, I offer these:
Take a lot of math courses. You will need all the advanced math skills you can
muster to enable you to calculate per diem rates around the world, when trying
to split up the crew's bar tab so that the co-pilot really believes he owes 85%
of the whole thing and the nav believing he owes the other 20.
Health sciences are important, too. You will need a thorough knowledge of biology
to make those educated guesses of how much longer you can drink beer before
the tremendous case of the shits catches up to you from that meal you ate at
that place that had the belly dancers in some God-forsaken foreign country whose
name you can't even pronounce!
Social studies are also beneficial. It is important for a good TAC Airlifter to
have the cultural knowledge to be able to ascertain the exact location of the
nearest titty bar in any country in the world, then be able to convince the local
authorities to release the loadmaster after he offends every sensibility
of the local religion and culture.
A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to pronounce
the names of the NAVAIDs in France, and it's much easier to ignore them
and go where you want to anyway. As a rule of thumb: Waiters and bellhops in France
are always called "Pierre", in Spain it's "Hey, Pedro" and in Italy, of
course, it's "Mario." These terms of address also serve in other countries interchangeably,
depending upon the level of swarth of the addresee.
A study of geography is also paramount. You will need to know the basic location
of all the places you've been when you get back from your TDY and are ready
to stick those little pins in that huge world map you've got taped to you living
room wall, right next to that gigantic wooden giraffe statue and beer stein
collection.
Well, DJ, I hope this little note inspires you. And by the way, forget about that
Academy thing. All TAC Airlifters know that there are waaay too few women and
too little alcohol there to provide a well-balanced
education. A nice, big state college would be a much better choice. Good luck and
see you on the SKE scope!
Maj. Hunter Mills
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28802#28802
Message 16
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Absolutely! Aint no kill like a guns kill! 'Cept maybe with a Bow! Then it is closer
and even more personal. But, that is a differnt form of hunting.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:57:48 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Agree but you know as well as I do..theres no kill like a guns kill!
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention.
Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's
object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for the
guns kill!
Hitman
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Tobin
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am tending
to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys are able to
do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance they will unbury
one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to fly the
bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers :-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
Message 17
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That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us fossiles
left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAVs. Days of the
manned fighter are numbered.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Tim Gagnon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us
whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and
I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have
carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical
supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have
seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.
Ah, I struck a nerve I guess. I guess it all depends on whose ox is
being gored. ;-)
> We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's
that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the
airframe and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service
since 1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future.
No matter how good it is, it is painful to sit in back for 15 hours.
Why don't you just make fun of my callsign? It will make you feel better.
--
Brian "Pinky" Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Tim Gagnon wrote:
> A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to pronounce
the names of the NAVAIDs in France,
Hoo ha! That one is sooooo true! I was flying my Comanche from London to
Tousous le Noble, just outside of Versailles, so I could get to the
Paris Airshow. I was IFR and they kept giving me these names that bore
NO FRIGGIN' RESEMBLANCE to what was printed on the charts. I had to ask
for them to read the phixes to me phonetically. And when I got all done
I found out they had just given me a STAR, which I had. Now if they had
only told me that when they took the handoff from London ...
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go Air Force
where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home to your
family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us fossiles
left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAV's. Days of
the manned fighter are numbered.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
To: yak-list
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart
away in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill,
Hornets become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if
it's targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go!
> "Go Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and
> go home to your family every night!"
Well, not quite. Just ask any local "gamer" (you know, the kid next door
who has a $5000 super-fast computer upon which he plays
internet-connected games for 10 hours per day) and he will tell you that
low-latency is life (forget the "speed" thing). The UCAV operators are
going to be as close as they can get to keep latency well below human
reaction time. You can't even do that across the US.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
The F-22 is a great air superiority fighter, but who is it going to fight?
UAV's are good for recon, eyes on target, and Predator strikes.
But from a Marines perspective, where does close air support enter the
planning.
JDAM's are great, but a grunt needs it up close and personal.
Remember close air support doesn't mean dropping ordnance from 8,000 feet
and above.
You can't call it CAS at those altitudes.
Thanks God for Harriers, F-18's, A-10's, Cobras, and Apaches.
On 4/16/06, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go
> Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home
> to your family every night!"
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>
>
> That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us
> fossiles left that remember the art of manned flight.
> Doc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John W. Hilterman Jr. <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>
>
> Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAV's. Days
> of the manned fighter are numbered.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig Payne
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
> *To:* yak-list
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>
>
> Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then
> dart away in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway
> kill, Hornets become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a
> threat, if it's targeting system improves.
>
>
> But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping
> homework for video games is going to eat your lunch.
>
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Yes for the "gamer" latency is life. Take it from someone who has flown
Airwarrior, Warbirds, Ace's High, etc. Trying to fly form off someone
who has dropped packets, it sucks. There are enough birds in geo and
non geo orbit to support the control information for a few squadrons of
UAVs. The big thing will be putting a few more up for the <meter video
that the planes would "see."
However, I can say it doesn't require the controller to be in the same
theater as the global hawk. I'm guessing that they are already
controlling the UAVs from sat links rather than direct RF. Since you
are already bouncing the signal off a geo sat, adding a second geo sat
by direct sight would not add much more latency. If the birds support
that today, image what happens in version 10 of the bird. Remember, we
are already well past version 3.
The folks could be sitting on the carrier or sitting in the base at DG
to support the UAVs. But you can bet that in the future recon missions,
SpecOps missions, and bombing missions, the controller will be sitting
in the basement at the pentagon or down at the base in FL :-). Of
course at this time, the big problem will be where to but all of the
tractor trailers since each larger UAV comes with 2 rather big trailers
each. They could all share the same dish's for uplinks, though.
The real time control and video/SA required for ACM will require the
folks to be closer. Maybe in theater, but I bet we get it to geo sat
based control, which means they could be anywhere. As long as they are
not using direct RF, they could be anywhere.
DaBear
I know nothing about this, but I'm just guessing.
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go!
>> "Go Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner
>> and go home to your family every night!"
>
>
> Well, not quite. Just ask any local "gamer" (you know, the kid next
> door who has a $5000 super-fast computer upon which he plays
> internet-connected games for 10 hours per day) and he will tell you
> that low-latency is life (forget the "speed" thing). The UCAV
> operators are going to be as close as they can get to keep latency
> well below human reaction time. You can't even do that across the US.
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Brian,
Don't feel left out. I learnt to speak french long before I gave English a
shot and still can't pronounce the names of certain France NAVAIDS. Come to
think of it, most of the time I speak to a French controller, it is in
english to avoid any confusion...
D
>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
>Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:17:12 -0700
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
>>A foreign language is helpful, but not required. You will never be able to
>>pronounce the names of the NAVAIDs in France,
>
>Hoo ha! That one is sooooo true! I was flying my Comanche from London to
>Tousous le Noble, just outside of Versailles, so I could get to the Paris
>Airshow. I was IFR and they kept giving me these names that bore NO
>FRIGGIN' RESEMBLANCE to what was printed on the charts. I had to ask for
>them to read the phixes to me phonetically. And when I got all done I found
>out they had just given me a STAR, which I had. Now if they had only told
>me that when they took the handoff from London ...
>
>--
>Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
>I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 25
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It's all part of the BIG picture!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Tobin
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:17:41 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Oh, since we are all bowing out our chests, haha....
Here's a plug for the AWACS directed at all the fighter bubbas...
If we don't get up
You don't get off!
:)
smash
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention.
Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's
object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for the
guns kill!
Hitman
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Tobin
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am tending
to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys are able to
do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance they will unbury
one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to fly the
bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers :-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
Currently happening! Seems in the 60's we were going to fight all of our battles
with missles. So out came the gun!
Damned here we go again.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 4/16/2006 5:42:56 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go Air Force
where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home to your
family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us fossiles
left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAVs. Days of the
manned fighter are numbered.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 27
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Here, here! November and the rut can't come fast enough.
Hitman
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Absolutely! Aint no kill like a guns kill! 'Cept maybe with a Bow! Then it
is closer and even more personal. But, that is a differnt form of hunting.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnhilterman1@cox.net> Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:57:48 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Agree but you know as well as I do..=14there=12s no kill like a guns kill!=14
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's
attention. Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become
someone's object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnhilterman1@cox.net> Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for
the guns kill!
Hitman
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah <mailto:aerobaticgirl@yahoo.com> Tobin
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am
tending to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys
are able to do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance
they will unbury one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good
luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to
fly the bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers
:-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
_____
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt
=3D39663/*http:/voice.yahoo.com> call rates.
Message 28
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Cross into the Blue baby!
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go
Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home
to your family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com> Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us
fossiles left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnhilterman1@cox.net> Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAV's. Days of
the manned fighter are numbered.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then
dart away in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway
kill, Hornets become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a
threat, if it's targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping
homework for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 29
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The tide has changed amongst the youngsters in the Air Force. Not more than
6-8 months ago there was one dude for ten UAV slots...nobody wanted them.
Now there are 10 dudes for one slot.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Currently happening! Seems in the 60's we were going to fight all of our
battles with missles. So out came the gun!
Damned here we go again.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis <mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> Savarese
Sent: 4/16/2006 5:42:56 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go
Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home
to your family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com> Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us
fossiles left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnhilterman1@cox.net> Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAV=12s. Days of
the manned fighter are numbered.
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then
dart away in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway
kill, Hornets become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a
threat, if it's targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping
homework for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 30
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| Subject: | UCAVs make the jump to lightspeed (was: Raptors Rule) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
DaBear wrote:
> Yes for the "gamer" latency is life. Take it from someone who has flown
> Airwarrior, Warbirds, Ace's High, etc. Trying to fly form off someone
> who has dropped packets, it sucks. There are enough birds in geo and
> non geo orbit to support the control information for a few squadrons of
> UAVs. The big thing will be putting a few more up for the <meter video
> that the planes would "see."
OK, given two aircraft of the same capability and two pilots of the same
capability, how much time does it take to gain an unrecoverable
advantage over your adversary?
A hop to GEO and back is 250ms. For the UCAV driver to see his adversary
do something and then get the proper response back to the UCAV is going
to take 500ms just for the data to go both ways. That doesn't even count
the human reaction time.
So boyz and girlz who fight in the sky, what are you going to do to an
adversary who has a built-in 1/2 second delay? My guess is that it is
going to keep him from being able to press home an attack and make him
meat-on-the-table.
> The real time control and video/SA required for ACM will require the
> folks to be closer. Maybe in theater, but I bet we get it to geo sat
> based control, which means they could be anywhere. As long as they are
> not using direct RF, they could be anywhere.
We don't know of anything that goes faster than light and you are 1/2
second away if you are going through a GEOsat. Nothing in the universe
can fix that with the exception of in-theatre direct LoS control or
local autonomy in the UCAV.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Actually, the Predators are launched in Iraq by local controllers but the mission
is flown by someone at Nellis AFB. So yeah, you could be flying a combat mission
in your underwear if you wanted. It has already begun.
I am not sure who is doing the flying on CIA armed missions and where they are
flying from.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28854#28854
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Tim Gagnon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> Actually, the Predators are launched in Iraq by local controllers but the mission
is flown by someone at Nellis AFB. So yeah, you could be flying a combat
mission in your underwear if you wanted. It has already begun.
Sure you are going to be able to fly a preprogrammed mission that way.
You aren't going to fly ACM that way. When someone tries to do
air-to-air with a UCAV, you can bet your ass they are going to have to
solve the latency problem.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
In a message dated 4/16/2006 3:52:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go!
> "Go Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and
> go home to your family every night!"
Well, not quite. Just ask any local "gamer" (you know, the kid next door
who has a $5000 super-fast computer upon which he plays
internet-connected games for 10 hours per day) and he will tell you that
low-latency is life (forget the "speed" thing). The UCAV operators are
going to be as close as they can get to keep latency well below human
reaction time. You can't even do that across the US.
Dennis you much more correct than Brian, One of my neighbors a LC at Nellis
fly's armed combat missions over the middle east on a regular basis from his
chair on base ( I do not think it is leather) and is home every night.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
N13472@aol.com wrote:
> Dennis you much more correct than Brian,
Actually, no, Dennis is not more correct than Brian.
Recon and delivering ordinance to the ground can be preprogrammed.
Getting the UAV to exactly the right point is easy. A good autopilot
with GPS will put whatever you have where you want it to go. You can fly
that mission from the moon if you like. The man is just there to make
the long-term mission decisions, not the split-second responses.
Likewise, flying against a stupid foe, i.e. one that doesn't react, is
not going to take rocket science on the part of your air-to-air UCAV.
But if you ever hope to do *real* air-to-air with a fluid foe you need
instantaneous adaptability. A 1/2 second delayed reaction will prevent
that from happening. No, air-to-air UCAVs will not be driven by guys
sitting in an armchair 10,000 nm away through a GEOsat link ... unless
they want to lose.
So you have two choices:
1. If you really want to do air-to-air from 10,000 nm away you have to
make the flight systems smart enough to initiate during an aerial
encounter and then let the human element catch up.
2. Alternatively you can reduce latency by getting your pilots close
enough that speed-of-light doesn't interfere with performance.
Please show me how you can do it any other way.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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