Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Brian Lloyd)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Brian Lloyd)
6. 06:11 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
7. 06:33 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Roger Kemp)
8. 07:26 AM - Adios (Brian Lloyd)
9. 07:28 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (DaBear)
10. 07:30 AM - Anyone Seen or heard about this? (DaBear)
11. 07:31 AM - The Scud Running CJ6 (Scooter)
12. 08:15 AM - Brian- Stick Around (NapeOne@aol.com)
13. 09:56 AM - Re: Brian- Stick Around (Brian Lloyd)
14. 10:26 AM - Re: Brian- Stick Around (Roger Kemp)
15. 10:50 AM - Re: Raptors Rule (Greg Young)
16. 11:36 AM - Re: Photo Share (Barry Hancock)
17. 05:31 PM - Smoke oil at ARS V? (ByronMFox@aol.com)
18. 07:55 PM - Re: Smoke oil at ARS V? (the wades)
19. 08:00 PM - Re: Smoke oil at ARS V? (Stephen Fox)
20. 08:14 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Sarah Tobin)
21. 08:27 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Sarah Tobin)
22. 08:30 PM - Re: Raptors Rule (Sarah Tobin)
23. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: BFM/ACM (Sarah Tobin)
24. 08:58 PM - mini air bottles (Sarah Tobin)
25. 09:15 PM - Re: ARS V - Deadline approaching! EXTENSION (Shinden33)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Brian, with no disrespect intended, you've moved way off the subject of my
lighthearted post about the Air Force recruiting effort. All I was saying
was how different it is and will be recruiting "fighter" pilots. I really
could care less about being more or less right on the subject.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> N13472@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Dennis you much more correct than Brian,
>
> Actually, no, Dennis is not more correct than Brian.
>
> Recon and delivering ordinance to the ground can be preprogrammed. Getting
> the UAV to exactly the right point is easy. A good autopilot with GPS will
> put whatever you have where you want it to go. You can fly that mission
> from the moon if you like. The man is just there to make the long-term
> mission decisions, not the split-second responses.
>
> Likewise, flying against a stupid foe, i.e. one that doesn't react, is not
> going to take rocket science on the part of your air-to-air UCAV.
>
> But if you ever hope to do *real* air-to-air with a fluid foe you need
> instantaneous adaptability. A 1/2 second delayed reaction will prevent
> that from happening. No, air-to-air UCAVs will not be driven by guys
> sitting in an armchair 10,000 nm away through a GEOsat link ... unless
> they want to lose.
>
> So you have two choices:
>
> 1. If you really want to do air-to-air from 10,000 nm away you have to
> make the flight systems smart enough to initiate during an aerial
> encounter and then let the human element catch up.
>
> 2. Alternatively you can reduce latency by getting your pilots close
> enough that speed-of-light doesn't interfere with performance.
>
> Please show me how you can do it any other way.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> So you have two choices:
>
> 1. If you really want to do air-to-air from 10,000 nm away you have to
> make the flight systems smart enough to initiate during an aerial
> encounter and then let the human element catch up.
>
> 2. Alternatively you can reduce latency by getting your pilots close
> enough that speed-of-light doesn't interfere with performance.
>
> Please show me how you can do it any other way.
>
Brian,
All things will be known in time.
Drop this line/topic.
Doc
Message 3
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Shack! Only down here in LA, the Rut comes in late Dec to 1st week of Jan. So the
last two weeks of the season is prime for us. Gotta get this ANG thing behind
me. It has interfered with way to many hunting weekends since 911!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:26:06 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Here, here! November and the rut cant come fast enough.
Hitman
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Absolutely! Aint no kill like a guns kill! 'Cept maybe with a Bow! Then it is closer
and even more personal. But, that is a differnt form of hunting.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:57:48 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Agree but you know as well as I do..theres no kill like a guns kill!
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Rule # 1 Speed is life!
Rule #2 If you get slow you will become the object of someone else's attention.
Questions, see rule #1.
Rule #3 If your fight exceeds a 180 degrees, you are or about to become someone's
object of attention. See rule #1.
Vipers only do knife fights in the phone both for fun.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/15/2006 8:04:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Until your AOA limiter kicks in and the Hornet goes nose on at 70 knots for the
guns kill!
Hitman
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Vipers forever, everything else is a target!
doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Tobin
Sent: 4/15/2006 11:01:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: BFM/ACM
Hey Pappy, after what I saw the BONES do in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am tending
to agree with you. That Time Sensitive Targetting that those guys are able to
do know...wow, what do we need fighters for? For the off chance they will unbury
one of their antiquitated former soviet union jets. Good luck!
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
You guys can go ahead and fire away at me. I shan't be here. I'm off to fly the
bombers. And yes I am a better pilot than you because I fly bombers :-)
Pappy (just a hair from logging 500 hours of formation time) nite nite
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Brian, with no disrespect intended, you've moved way off the subject of
> my lighthearted post about the Air Force recruiting effort. All I was
> saying was how different it is and will be recruiting "fighter" pilots.
> I really could care less about being more or less right on the subject.
And I didn't care if you were more or less right either. I cared that I
was told I was wrong when I wasn't.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Kemp wrote:
> Brian,
> All things will be known in time.
> Drop this line/topic.
Yes sir!
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 6
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Hitman,
It's coming to a carrier near you to! Gives a whole new meaning to the Ramp Monster!
No one is safe from this UCAV thing where killing is just a video game with
real consequences. The X generation is primed for this mission! They will
never know the joy of a 3 deminsional barrel roll at Mach! They will only see
it on a video screen!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 9:22:33 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Cross into the Blue baby!
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort is going to go! "Go Air Force
where you fly and fight right from a leather recliner and go home to your
family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
That's why we need to keep our YAKs operational. So there are a few of us fossiles
left that remember the art of manned flight.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Hilterman Jr.
Sent: 4/16/2006 10:01:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Yup. Take a look at how many guard/reserve units are going UAVs. Days of the
manned fighter are numbered.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
Saw the F-22 hover, kick turn 180 in 2-3 seconds, fly sideways, and then dart away
in burner. Vipers are obsolete hood ornaments, Eagles are runway kill, Hornets
become windscreen splatter. Only the new Sukhoi could be a threat, if it's
targeting system improves.
But then there are the new combat UAV's. Some kid who grew up skipping homework
for video games is going to eat your lunch.
Craig Payne
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Brian,
I am not trying to be a smart ass on this one. Really, though there things
in this story line that just can't be talked about in a world wide forum
like this list.
Like I said, as things will be known in time.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/17/2006 8:08:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Roger Kemp wrote:
> > Brian,
> > All things will be known in time.
> > Drop this line/topic.
>
> Yes sir!
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Something has become very clear to me. I don't really enjoy this list
any more. I get annoyed and then I annoy everyone else in return. I
think it is time to retire from this list and spend my time working on
other things.
I may retire the "brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com" email address as it
has become a SPAM magnet. If you need to reach me and it bounces, try
"brianl AT lloyd DOT com", "brian DOT lloyd AT lloyd DOT com" or "brain
AT lloyd DOT com" (thanks for the latter moniker Pappy).
Good luck and good flying to all of you. I will continue to work on the
CJ6A stuff on the wiki.
--
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
While none of what has been discussed is classified, and all has been
discussed in Aviation Week I can see that we should move off the topic.
It makes for interesting discussion for those folks in data networking
who have an aviation passion. Funny thing is, there are standards
issues that can't be broken (speed of light, latency due to distance)
and the theoretical ways to account for this in real life applications
is challenging and interesting to those in the field.
Dabear
Roger Kemp wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>Brian,
>I am not trying to be a smart ass on this one. Really, though there things
>in this story line that just can't be talked about in a world wide forum
>like this list.
>Like I said, as things will be known in time.
>Doc
>
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>Date: 4/17/2006 8:08:31 AM
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>>Roger Kemp wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Brian,
>>>All things will be known in time.
>>>Drop this line/topic.
>>>
>>>
>>Yes sir!
>>
>>--
>>Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
>>brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>>- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Anyone Seen or heard about this? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
www.avweb.com/news/columns/191863-1.html
So, why would someone clip the wings of a CJ for racing? I do like the
idea of modified to fly solo from the back.
DaBear
Message 11
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| Subject: | The Scud Running CJ6 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Story on Avweb:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191863-1.html
Note the aircraft also. It had 3.5' removed from each wing for air racing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28909#28909
Message 12
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| Subject: | Brian- Stick Around |
Don't be thin skinned. I, for one, very much enjoy your insightful and well
thought out comments. I have particularly been enlightened by your comments
regarding latency and ucavs.
David H.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brian- Stick Around |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
NapeOne@aol.com wrote:
> Don't be thin skinned. I, for one, very much enjoy your insightful and
> well thought out comments. I have particularly been enlightened by your
> comments regarding latency and ucavs.
Well, I really am not being thin-skinned. I have been contemplating
whether I am getting anything out of the Yak-list besides lost time for
some time. As I told Jim Bernier, I get annoyed and then I become
annoying. That doesn't help anybody. So I will focus on what is
productive to me (the wiki) and work on other stuff that needs my time.
These include:
1. new job teaching 4th-8th grade science;
2. new job starting a flight school;
3. getting married again;
4. buying a house at Cameron Airpark;
5. moving The Project to the new house;
6. finishing the project;
7. figuring out how to get a bunch of people together in the Virgin
Islands for my son's HS graduation;
8. getting ready for a performance of my vocal jazz ensemble.
There are probably more but that is what comes immediately to mind. ;-)
> David H.
Brian
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Brian- Stick Around |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Brian,
There are not enough hours in the day for all we want to do. Stick around
though. I'm to stupid to figure this Winki (WiKi) thing out! But am working
on it.,
Congratulations on all your changes. That in itself should about max out
your stress scale on the ol' pyschological index (life scale). Dude, you
need a vacation! Not sure I could handle teaching 4-8th graders, get
married (again, not done with the first one yet) and start a flt school
too! Man, your plate is full!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/17/2006 12:04:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Brian- Stick Around
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> NapeOne@aol.com wrote:
> > Don't be thin skinned. I, for one, very much enjoy your insightful and
> > well thought out comments. I have particularly been enlightened by your
> > comments regarding latency and ucavs.
>
> Well, I really am not being thin-skinned. I have been contemplating
> whether I am getting anything out of the Yak-list besides lost time for
> some time. As I told Jim Bernier, I get annoyed and then I become
> annoying. That doesn't help anybody. So I will focus on what is
> productive to me (the wiki) and work on other stuff that needs my time.
>
> These include:
>
> 1. new job teaching 4th-8th grade science;
> 2. new job starting a flight school;
> 3. getting married again;
> 4. buying a house at Cameron Airpark;
> 5. moving The Project to the new house;
> 6. finishing the project;
> 7. figuring out how to get a bunch of people together in the Virgin
> Islands for my son's HS graduation;
> 8. getting ready for a performance of my vocal jazz ensemble.
>
> There are probably more but that is what comes immediately to mind. ;-)
>
> > David H.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
No need for the web, just pick up a techno-thriller. Dale Brown's
megafortress series is a good example. He's got tactical UAV's launched
and controlled from an aircraft and capable of autonomous, coordinated
ACM. About the only thing technically out of reach (right now) is the
thought control interface. His book Storming Heaven is a chillingly
familiar description of an attack on our National Airspace System...
Copyrighted 5 years before 9/11. That's just one guy.
At Boeing in 1975 we could do aerodynamic FEA on about 1 inch grids. Now
they can track molecules and I can do smaller grids on my desktop. We
have reached the point where almost anything technical we can conceive
is possible, limited only by our desire and money.
Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Raptors Rule
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Brian,
> I am not trying to be a smart ass on this one. Really, though
> there things in this story line that just can't be talked
> about in a world wide forum like this list.
> Like I said, as things will be known in time.
> Doc
>
>
Message 16
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Gang,
Since the recce photos from DT II were posted, I just want to mention
that what you see is the current/unclassified photos from the Portable
Flight Planning Software (PFPS) system employed by our military. We
use this for our briefing, flight planning, and bomb hits scoring
during Desert Thunder events. We may be flying 150 knot airplanes, but
these exercises get a civilian pilot as close to current real world
military flying as you're ever gonna get....it's just a friggin' hoot!
Thanks again to Mo and GED (active duty Marines and Navy) for their
support in this event! For us civilian pukes, it just don't get any
bettah than dis!
Barry
DT III coming this October!
Message 17
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| Subject: | Smoke oil at ARS V? |
Barry, will the sponsor again provide? ...Blitz
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Smoke oil at ARS V? |
Does anyone know of a source for Texaco Cannopus Corvus oil #13 ?
Thanks Bill Wade
N4450Y
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: radialpower@cox.net ; yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Smoke oil at ARS V?
Barry, will the sponsor again provide? ...Blitz
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Smoke oil at ARS V? |
On Apr 17, 2006, at 10:50 PM, the wades wrote:
> Does anyone know of a source for Texaco Cannopus Corvus oil #13 ?
> Thanks Bill Wade
> N4450Y
Bill -
No source for Texaco but you may want to try Super-Dri Smoke Oil from
MDW
http://mdw-aviation.com/
Steve
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
Brain -
I think the point is, is just that...that there isn't a need for ACM anymore.
Being on the AWACS now for many years, and trained for 2v2s, 2v4s, packages,
etc. and never actually employing that knowledge....it's a dying art. There
just isn't an adversary that is capable of going air to air with the US or Brits.
We rule the sky!
I was in Afghanistan and then my crew went off to Iraq and our main mission was
passing TST (Time Sensitive Targeting) to the BONEs and Dark Greys and then
relaying to the Hawgs the TOO (Targets of Opportunity) from the Army FACs on
the ground. Our vision of an air-to-air war, while super fun to practice, is
just not the reality of today. Those days have passed, at least for now.
You are 100% correct that no UAV will EVER be able to do ACM, nor are they designed
for it. They are RECCE mostly, then soon, COMM relay, then a few (like
the Global Hawks that are no kidding controlled from Cali can employ the Hell
Fire missile). We, as the DOD are not sanctioned to do that. You will all remember
the bombing of the Paki camp that was from a Predator with a Hell Fire
missile??? Well that was CIA....they are the only ones authorized to carry and
employ that missile from any UAV platform at this time. I suppose that is
a political move on our part, but it's reality.
So, let the record show...I actually agreed with Brain!
That was a joke, please take it that way :)
Smash
Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote
Sure you are going to be able to fly a preprogrammed mission that way.
You aren't going to fly ACM that way. When someone tries to do
air-to-air with a UCAV, you can bet your ass they are going to have to
solve the latency problem.
---------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
Double S -
You are spot on my brother....CAS...Hawgs...that is the way it's going. After
I vectored in those Hawgs and handed them off to the ground FACs, I just sat
back and listened, 10 meters to the South...shack, now 10 meters North...shack.
It was an awesome thing to witness (audio only of course). But the Marines
that were getting schwacked every night from insurgents were sure glad to see
those cluster bombs falling from the sky! That night, I was creditted with
assisting in the kills of 28 Afghanis. Not sure what I did to get that credit
other that direct the Hawg on target and pass him off to the boys that were
protecting their B hinds, but hey...that night, we saved a shit load of Marines
and that is what I care about! God bless the Corps! :)
JDAMs...woooheee! You talk about an amazing weapon....in Red Flag scenarios,
we always have guys on the ground that are scoring the bombing runs. They have
made a sweeping decision it's not worth their time to score JDAMs, they are
spot on 99% of the time and the boys in the back of the BONEs sure know how to
corral the target and destroy it.
Hate to beat the perverbial dead horse, but this goes back to the difference
in war fighting of today....not only are the Apaches supporting the bubbas on
the ground, but now, the AF is taking up that role. No longer are we the air
superiority Gods that we self proclaim to be, we are now, instead, here to sweep
the air space and provide cover for the boys that are fighting the *real* war
on the ground!
thanks to all those that dare to brave the ground!
Smash
Stan Siry <sasiry@gmail.com> wrote:
The F-22 is a great air superiority fighter, but who is it going to fight?
UAV's are good for recon, eyes on target, and Predator strikes.
But from a Marines perspective, where does close air support enter the planning.
JDAM's are great, but a grunt needs it up close and personal.
Remember close air support doesn't mean dropping ordnance from 8,000 feet and
above.
You can't call it CAS at those altitudes.
Thanks God for Harriers, F-18's, A-10's, Cobras, and Apaches.
---------------------------------
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Raptors Rule |
One would think that this is such a stupid/anti flying job that no one would want
to do it, but...Hitman hit the nail on the cranium....there are more of us
than you think that seriously want a piece of this action.
I applied the last 3 years...why?
1. I get to deploy again and get back in the action
2. Any possible chance to drop one of those Hell Fire missiles, even in test
would be a sweet prospect.
Smash
"A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
} w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
} Just think about how the Air Force recruiting effort
is going to go! "Go Air Force where you fly and fight right from a leather
recliner and go home to your family every night!"
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
---------------------------------
Message 23
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TG
I understand your frustrations. So many times in my relatively short career,
I have seen my heavy driver buds bagged on. You know...the slow fat kids *do*
always get killed at Red Flag scenarios...sorry for that, but there is a reason,
it's survival of the most important, and in the initial sweep, that is the
boys with the biggest BOTOT.
We both know that realistically, we are not going to employ that way, we will
sweep the area, get SEAD on station, then bring in the boys with the bombs.
THEN, we will bring in the heavies with the supplies etc.
Talking with several of my buds that have weathered this last war, you will all
be surprised to know that I think the "trash haulers" took the most anti-aircraft
fire than any other platform the military owns. I have two really close
buds that escaped by the hair of their chinny chin chin.
We all talk alot of smack and that is what makes us who we are. But there is
no doubt in my mind that the boys that had the hardest time since 9-11 are the
ones that we call trash haulers. I have a g'friend from OTS and UPT that bought
a house near Pope. In the 3 years she was stationed there, she Literally
spent 4 weeks there. Why? Because she was hauling troops and mail and supplies
and everything you can imagine from every remote base in the middle east you
can imagine. You talk about sacrifice...think about it...4 weeks out of 3
years you are home with your family? I don't think any AAMRAM shooter/G pullin/ACM
doing SOB can say the same. I know they can't. Yes, 200 days a year,
but NOT 4 weeks in 3 years.
Okay, so I go on and on, point is....we all need each other and I will tell you
what, if it weren't for the trash haulers (and I use that affectionately)
I wouldn't have had my gym or chow in the desert, so thank you for that!
Smash
non <NiftyYak50@msn.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon"
Logistics DRIVEs warfare, plain and simple. Airlift helps that happen. Call us
whatever you want...we are the air bridge. I have been called trash hauler and
I have been called Freedom Bird. I have taken folks in country and out. I have
carried the living and I have carried the dead. I have dropped food, medical
supplies, and Special Forces. I have been to 52 countries in ten years. I have
seen a lot of the world. All, in a C-130.
We may take forever to get anywhere but remember we can also go ANYWHERE (C-130's
that is and a some places open to the C-17). Look at the variants of the airframe
and remember the airplane has been in constant production and service since
1954. It is the DC-3 of today and for the near future.
You may be able to replace a fighter with a UAV, try that with airlift.
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | mini air bottles |
Having gone thru this in the last month myself, I will share.
Sure....pony bottles are ideal, assuming you have the SCUBA bottle attachment
for your air hose.
Unfortunately, most places want you to have a dive card...I don't. So if you
don't, you have to go thru long discussions on why you are not diving with the
bottle and why you should be able to fill it. Some times, if you are lucky,
you will find a dive shop that services paint ballers. They need the air for
their guns apparently. ( I did that stupid sport ONCE and walked away with a
crap load of bruises...don't recommend it and hate to be associated with it).
Anyway, it's possible to find them.
This is what I *finally* decided. I found the main place in my city that services
all the hospitals/welders, etc. and asked them about all sorts of bottles.
They went thru all the prices for new and used...
best I found for a SCUBA pony bottle was 90 bucks and an 80 cf was 185. Then
started asking about those big ass bottles you see at the mx shops full of nitro.
Guess what...they are only 150 bucks fully hydro tested, etc. Catch is,
you need to find the US plug that fits the hose they give you.
But, to fill a pony bottle it was 7.50 to fill this HUGE cylinder it's 17 bucks!!
It's over 4xs the size and only a little over twice the price. I am off
to Harbor Freight tomorrow to buy a small dolly to haul that sucker around the
hangar, but I am telling you, it's gonna be worth it.
Everyone in the world will fill the industrial tank with no questions asked,
but when you move around like I do, you can't find dive shops that will give you
the time of day if you aren't a diver.
Oh, back to the small/pony bottles. I found a 20cf one that is bigger than the
pony bottles that Ricky B and others have, but, it has the same fitting as
my big ass bottle and it still fits inside the Yak. So, this sucker at Harbor
Freight was 60 bucks as opposed to the 85/120 quotes I was getting on the SCUBA
pony bottles. I checked with the place that is filling my air and they had
the same price on that bottle.
It pays to look around and if necessary buy/weld a fitting to your current air
hook up.
Smash
---------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | ARS V - Deadline approaching! EXTENSION |
Barry,
What is the difference between full registration and day only registration?
I am planning on flying back to Tehachapi most nights. Which should I sign
up for? Also, I read mention of a campground. Is this a place where I can
pitch a tent for the nights I do want to stay?
Scott Glaser
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:33 PM
To: 'Yak List'
Subject: Yak-List: ARS V - Deadline approaching! EXTENSION
**NOTE: DUE TO AN EMAIL SENDING ERROR, THE DEADLINE FOR ADVANCED
REGISTRATION HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO TUESDAY, APRIL 18TH**
Dear fellow Red Star Aviators:
I know many of you are busy getting your tax returns together and
otherwise toiling in the grind of life. If you anything like me you have to
schedule your fun...and I can't think of a better time to schedule it than
May 3-7... ;)
The advanced registration deadline is *Tuesday*! Sign up now for ARS V and
save yourself 10% over the full rate registration fees. Full registration
fees will now begin this Tuesday, April 18th, (previously was Sunday, April
16th). Register now at www.allredstar.com!
FLYING EVENTS
In addition to all the formation and tactical formation training you get
at ARS, this year we're introducing a bunch of new flying events that
promise lots of good times both in the air and from an observers
standpoint - with the runway being much closer to the ramp at PTV, it will
be a much more enjoyable spectator venue.
1) Formation Challenge. Well with 3 years of great formation work in the
book, the ARS planning cell decided It is time put the "challenge" back into
the 4th annual Formation Challenge and put all your skills to the test.
Think Treasure Hunt meets TOT meets crowd pleasing formation passes. ;) Gone
are many of the subjective ground elements. Added are rejoins, dead
reckoning, TOT's, altitude separation blocks, etc....all the things you'd be
expected to do in an air show environment. Start on time, take off on time,
join up, make a photo pass, head out, break up and find 4 undisclosed
landmarks using bearing/distance and a riddle for the landmark, rejoin, hit
the TOT at the hold point above the airport, make one pass (configuration at
your discretion), and recover using the break of your choice.
2) Carrier Landings No, we are not talking about Pappy rubmlin',
stumblin', fumblin' and flopping on a ping pong table. Were talking about
"Splash 12, call the ball!" "Roger, Ball!" Spot landings....with a twist.
Fly a carrier pattern with a 1/4 mile final, talk to the LSO, make sure not
to hit the back of the boat (yellow boards, laid flat), and catch the 3 wire
(all 4 wires simulated by flour lines). Complete with a "Landing on the
Boat" brief, "Paddles" will be out there giving you corrections and we'll
have it all on video for the Saturday night banquet! ;)
3) CAS Demo We had such a blast doing this down in the desert that we are
hoping to put on a demo Friday night as well. This will be dependent on our
active duty guys being able to get the time off to play the GFAC role, but
the comms are interesting, and this will be a fun primer for our Desert
Thunder III in the Fall.
GROUND EVENTS
1) Lead Pilot Seminar - Are you a FAST lead pilot or planning to be? Then
this is a don't miss presentation for you! The RPA's LPS sets the standard
in the warbird world for giving lead and aspiring lead pilots all the tools
you'll need to be a more effective lead pilot.
2) Poker Night - Thursday evening we'll fire up the aviation videos as a
backdrop for our first Poker Night. The ARS staff will deal you the chance
to win prizes such as $20 off your fuel bill, RPA and ARS merchandise, and
more....
3) Cinco de Mayo Ramp Party - Friday night is the annual Ramp Party/BBQ.
Impromptu formation fly-bys, a CAS demo, an upscale Taco Bar, the ARS girls
blending margaritas and a few surprises promise another memorable Friday
night...
4) Saturday Awards Banquet - A fine meal, a few awards, and one of the
best presentations in all of aviation are on tap. Brian Shul, SR-71 pilot
and author will cap off a great evening with a riveting presentation about
flying the world's fastest air breathing jet, the SR-71 Blackbird. Sharing
the world's largest private collection of Blackbird photos, Brian takes you
behind the scenes of the plane that played a major role in winning the Cold
War - a victory we enjoy every time we mount our Red Star steeds.
HOTEL
Also, if you have not made hotel reservations, now is the time as our
block of rooms at the Best Western are filling up fast! If you call to make
a reservation without mentioning All Red Star, they will tell you the hotel
is sold out! This is because we have 80 rooms reserved! When someone calls
to make a reservation, use "All Red Star" as the group name, which is in
their computer. The confusion comes because there are codes based on the
number of days that people are staying...
3rd - 7th: CGRED
4th - 7th: CGSTAR
5th - 7th: CGREDS
6ht - 7th: CGRED1
The front desk person will ask how many days and then the code will go
along with their confirmation number. OR you can reserve your room using
these
codes...either way it is under All Red Star. The CG is Best Western's
group code...nothing to do with us; something they have to use. If you have
any questions, please contact our Event Coordinator, Amy Rose, at
bomberamy@yahoo.com.
For reservations, DO NOT use the internet. Call them at 559-781-7411.
RENTAL CARS
We will have a 15 passenger van, plus a few other vehicles on a schedule
to shuttle people back and forth from the hotel. If you would like more
flexibility, we have arranged a very convenient system for you to rent a car
for the event.
Cars INC.
1-(559) 781-9900
They will have your car at the airport when you arrive and check you in
there. When you leave, they will make arrangements for you to leave the car
and keys at the airport. (Including Sunday drop off)
Here's what the renter needs to do:
1) Inform them you are calling for the REDSTAR Discount.
2) Tell them which date and approx time you will arrive.
3 Tell them which date and approx. time you will leave.
3) Which car or van you want:
(Note: The 50 mile per day limit is the cheapest deal. The airport is
approx 7 miles from the hotel.)
SMALL: FORD Escort. $22.50 (50 miles per day)
Medium: FORD Taurus. $27.00 (50 miles per day)
Large: Grand Prix. $31.50 (50 miles per day)
SUV: Buick Rendezvous. $40.50 (50 miles per day)
VAN: 8 pax. $49.50 (50 miles per day)
VAN: 15 pax. $72.00 (50 miles per day), $90.00 (100 miles per day)
4) Have your credit card ready.
SCHEDULE AND POSTER
The ARS V daily schedule and new poster is now available for download on
the "Invitation" page of the web site.
Again, register now and save on the gas money! We hope you'll join us and
we look forward to seeing you for ARS V!
Cheers,
Barry and the ARS staff
(for the real scoop on the ARS V staff, click the "staff" button on the
web site...LOL!)
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
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