Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:02 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 07/19/06 (Norm Davis)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: FOD covers (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: OSH Yak Forum (Roger Kemp)
4. 03:07 PM - Mark the Calendar (Daniel Fortin)
5. 03:13 PM - Re: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / (Francis Butler)
6. 05:01 PM - Re: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 07:24 PM - Vinyl word source! (Larry Pine)
8. 07:56 PM - Re: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / (Roger Kemp)
9. 08:27 PM - Re:LET'S NOT SCARE ANYBODY (Cliff Umscheid)
10. 10:36 PM - Re: Re:LET'S NOT SCARE ANYBODY (Francis Butler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 07/19/06 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Norm Davis <davisn@xtra.co.nz>
Thanks for the inputs re camera mounts. We now have enough info to
follow up. An outfit in Wellington is helping and we may end up with a
pencil lens. Once we have something I'll let you know to close the loop.
Re high power tail draggers, I am reminded of my first experience in a
Skyraider as a Student Navy Pilot back in 1956, Cabaniss Field, Texas.
Our first experience after all the ground school prep was to start up,
taxi out to the runway, line up on the center line and pour the herbs to
the 2700 hp Wright Cyclone R3350. As the airspeed increased, stick
forward to lift the tail - then pull power off and abort the take off.
Felt like I was on top of a locomotive, the tail came up and, before I
knew it, I was airborne. There was plenty of runway left ahead, so I
slowly reduced throttle, kept it straight and settled back onto the runway.
The instructor, in a chase aircraft, had anticipated and was already on
the runway to follow. He needn't have bothered. I suspect it was
actually easier for me to control direction after the touch down than it
would have been if I had just cut the throttle from full while still on
the runway.
Funny how the memories surge back. Sure did love the flying - still do.
Cheers
Norm
Message 2
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Steve,
Although you are correct about the forward bellcrank, the rear bellcrank
is much more susceptible to FOD jamming because of its close proximity
to the rear bulkhead. Accidents and incidents that have occurred with
Yak 52's were due to FOD jamming between the rear bellcrank and the
sheet metal. The objective of the FOD cover is to prevent FOD from
finding its way into the aft-most compartment by sealing off the
aft-most compartment.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: sajdds@comcast.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: FOD covers
I am curious what your FOD cover covers. I have protection for the
rear bell crank but it always seemed to me that the forward bell crack
was the more suseptable of the two. Has anyone built a cover for the
area under the rear seat?
--
Steve Johnson
Yak 52
9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
more:
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Yak Forum |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Cliff,
I would say you have summed up all the FoPa's in learning to fly a 50 quit
succeintly! If you think you can do hi speed taxi and pull the power back
as a novice (which is what I still consider myself) think again! She will
fly off the runway in a 3 point heartbeat at 100 percent!
Some of the best advice I got from Scottie Patterson (an experienced early
50 owner with tons more TD experience than I ever will have) was bring the
power in slowly. Count 3 potataos or 4 and you do not need 100% to get her
off the ground at 110 kmph. She flies quite nicely off the runway at 85-90%
giving your novice brain a chance to get ahead of this airplane! Use quick
rudder left jabs to correct those early excursions to the right. My first
experience with the 50 is one could write a book for an aviation comedy!
But, hey, survived and am still able to still use the airplane after that!
The 50 handbook calls for 170 kmph off the perch and 150 over the fence for
landing. For a 2 point, those numbers are reasonable. Just have to be
patient on inching the wheels down and then do that unnatural act of
pushing forward on the stick to pin the mains when they kiss. The fun is
not over yet! Let the angle of incidence on the leading edge of that main
wing change to pitchup by lowering the tail before it is ready fall and you
are off to the rodeo with a whale of a PIO. You make it worse by trying to
fly the wing with the stick! All you do is make the PIO worse. As another
wise ol' Sage said, power corrects all. Just not to much of it! You have to
fly her all the way to the chocks!
For the 3 point those numbers are a bit high, IMHO, 150 on the perch and
130 over the fence while holding that TO picture in the flair as you get
1-2 feet off the runway is more comfortable to me. By the way, that TO
picture is 15 deg nose high and with about 25-30 deg view of the side of
the runway out the left and right side of the windscreen! I prefer the left
side since I can sneak peaks at the AS indicator while inching down toward
the runway. There is nothing to see over the nose except sky above you and
nothing infront of you. The 3 point to me, the novice, is still the
sweetest. Once you run her out of energy at 100 kmph, she is done flying,
now you have to manage the rollout! Controlling drift before arriving at
the runway is key also. If you have been lulled into the 52 can handle any
X Wind almost way of thinking, do not think that with the 50. If you want
to use her again after the last X wind landing. Her max X Wind is 10 m/s.
not much for those spindly little gear. The novice may want to hunt for
runway that is more oriented to X wind or not fly that day. Bummer. And
last, she loves grass and grass is more forgiving of the novice's
buffoonery than pavement.
I can second all Cliff has said. The 50 is a blast to fly! Slick, fast,
quick, manueverable, and there is not much that can match her under 10000
ft for the price we pay for this toy! I was lucky (still am) to have an
experience 50 driver nearby that was willing to give me the benefit of his
experience as my mentor! Not that I have progressed beyond novice by any
degree of experience yet! But everyday is a chance to learn and master! But
as another seasoned TD'er said, a Tail dragger can eat your lunch at any
moment if your are not flying her from the engine start until the engine is
shut down in back in the chocks!
After flying the 50, I now understand that saying I occassionally see on
aviation coffee cups and hanging in dusty old FBO's, "The second greatest
thing man does is fly. The first is to land!" Danged, and here I was
thinking it was sex all the time!
Doc Kemp
> [Original Message]
> From: Cliff Umscheid <netmaster15@juno.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>; <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 7/19/2006 11:51:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: OSH Yak Forum
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Umscheid <netmaster15@juno.com>
>
> Barry,
>
> The following is just a suggestion--subject to your judgement as to its
> relevance and its value-- for inclusion in your presentation.
> Under the heading of checking yourself out in a high powered tailwheel
> airplane in which your first ride is solo and everything turns in the
> opposite direction, For example, in the case of the YAK 50, where you
> don't see very much over the nose. Be guided by these cardinal rules;
> First: Have a substantial amount of tailwheel experience in aircraft
> with high H.P.
>
> Second: Seek out and heed the advice of those who have flown the
> airplane before.
>
> Third: Read everything you can lay your hands on and KNOW the airplane
> and its systems.
>
> Fourth: Forget about making high speed taxi runs before making the first
> flight. If that sounds strange--Trust me on that one. History
> has,unfortunately, been made by one adventurous YAK 50 purchaser known
> to many early YAK owners. In this case the result was extensive damage
> to the aircraft resulting in expensive repairs. Once you start down the
> runway on takeoff, do not pull the power off when the tail comes up and
> you are NOT heading in the desired direction. You will be off the ground
> before you can finish saying "H SHIT" . You can straighten it out in the
> air when you can see over the nose.
>
> Fifth: If there's a voice in your ear saying you are NOT ready for
> this excursion, LISTEN to it and get some more training. Our
> adventurous, would -be YAK 50 pilot made three attempts to solo his
> airplane and each time found an excuse to postpone the exercise
> when timidity overcame courage . Worse, he had been warned not to engage
> in his planned high speed taxi tests. High speed taxi is just another
> phrase for aborted takeoff . A YAK 50, in the hands of a novice, can get
> squirly in a hurry if you do not know what to expect the first time out;
> that's when the learning curve is the steepest. Torque is to the right
> and requires LEFT rudder to correct. Brakes are pneumatic and are applied
> with a hand brake located on the stick, there are no toe brakes. That's a
> lot of strange stuff to sort out when you are heading for the boonies and
> the view blocking nose comes up as forward speed decays.. Oh yes, don't
> forget, when you pull the stick back to plant the tailwheel , you are
> LOCKING the tailwheel for straight ahead trajectory.
> Note: Once you get used to the differences the YAK 50 is a dream to fly
> and the rate of climb will knock your socks off. 3600 FPM is easily
> obtained and the wing continues to fly long into the vertical. It also
> continues to fly long into the rollout after landing. That can surprise
> you if landing with even a slight crosswind. Beware of lifting of the
> upwind wing during ground rollout.
> Hope you find this useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> CLIFF
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:40:03 -0700 Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> writes:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> >
> > Gang,
> >
> > Yours truly has been invited back to do a forum on Yaks and CJ's
> > Friday the 28th at 10:30 a.m. in the Warbird building. I am putting
> >
> > together a presentation now and welcome any input at to what topics
> >
> > would be of interest for new and prospective Yak and CJ owners. I'm
> >
> > headed to Hungary tonight to inspect several L-39's but will keep my
> >
> > eyes open and ears to the ground for anything Yak as well.... I'll
> >
> > be back on Wednesday, so any lack of response on my part will be due
> >
> > to that and the impending jet lag.. >:}
> >
> > Thanks in advance...please send suggestions to me directly at
> > barry@flyredstar.com
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Mark the Calendar |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Fellow Yak enthusiasts,
Once again this year Sean Carroll and his crew at Kimble Aviation have
invited us to fly to their facility in Georgetown Delaware for a weekend of
formation flying and all around good fun. The dates set for this fall's
event is October 12th to 15th. These dates will also coincide with the
annual Georgetown Car show held each fall at the airport.
So far the plan is very basic; arrival are scheduled anytime Thursday,
Friday, Saturday and Sunday will be filled with opportunities to spread your
wings.
A FAST ground school and check airman can be arranged should they be
required. If you are planning to be in KGED and need either a ground school
or a check ride, let us know in advance. Without prior arrangements, there
are no guaranties individuals needs can be tailored to. To make arrangements
for either, just drop me a private email
Hotel, transportation, food and beer details are still in the process of
being worked out, but rest assure all will be ready for our anticipated
arrival.
cheers,
Dan Fortin
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
Lets not scare anybody with limited tail-wheel time from buying a Yak 50. Any
competent pilot can easily make the transition. I bought mine when I had Zero
tail-wheel time. Two hours dual in a Champ, another half dozen hours of champ
solo time and I was off flying my 50. A little intimidating first time taxiing
out, but the aircraft does not have any hidden surprises.
On another note, any Yakkers transitioning through North Dakota To or From Oshkosh
are welcome to stop in Fargo. Have room for one maybe two yaks in my hanger
and probably more space available over at the Fargo Air Museum. Or just stop
for lunch, my hanger has large deck, grill and have refreshments in the fridge.
Advance notice of arrival would be appreciated. Located on the South-East
corner of Fargo (FAR) directly North of Fargo Air Museum. Even you CJ guys
are welcome.
Regards,
Francis Butler
hanger 701 239-4532
cell 701 238-1826
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Francis, possibly you did so well in the 50 with so little tail dragger experience
simply because you did not have any past bad (or even GOOD) habits to re-learn!
The other possibility is that you are exceptionally skilled.
That said, let's also remember that you had the advantage of having a heck of a
lot of YAK-52 time before you ever set foot in a 50. Thus you were already used
to the round motor, you were already used to the pneumatic brakes, you were
already used to left rudder instead of right rudder on take-off, the pneumatic
starting system, snot valves, well... everyone knows how long this list is.
I don't think anyone was trying to SCARE anyone from buying a 50. What they were
trying to do was to warn any unsuspecting pilot that the YAK-50 demands respect.
You can give it respect before you fly it, and make the transition easily...
as a competent pilot should... or you can give it the respect it deserves
AFTER it has scared the crap out of you. Your choice, but one way or the other,
you ARE going to learn to respect a YAK-50, and that is all anyone is really
trying to say.
I now have 600 hours in YAK-50's... my absolutely perfect 3 point landings, made
exactly where I wanted them to be, where all the judges roared their approval
in awe ..... STILL number less than my total of fingers and toes. I learned
to wheel land the 50 very well LONG before a perfect 3 point.. and that is just
not normal in the world of tail draggers. For example in most other tail draggers
after you 3 point, you pull the stick all the way back... do that in a
50 and you will lift the aircraft right off the ground and balance it on the
tail wheel. As mentioned, the forward vision is less than most other tail draggers,
not including other extremely high performance models.
In the end, clearly I was not as good a pilot as you were. I walked into the YAK-50
with 100 hours of low performance tail dragger time, although I had lots
of tricycle high performance complex hours. The story of my flight home after
the purchase has left people laughing for hours. It's funny to recount now...
it was not very funny at the time.
So bottom line, I have to comment that the YAK-50 has been the most challenging
aircraft I have ever flown in my life. Not so much as in taking off and landing
ALIVE, but in order to fly WELL. It is strong, well made and as long as you
can keep it pointed in a straight line, it will indeed allow very novice pilots
to fly it without damage. Land it with the nose pointed in a crab on a hard
surface and you can BEND those landing legs very easily. I have seen that
with my own eyes.
The 50 is the only airplane I have ever flown that always talks to me after my
last flight and reminds me that my skills as a pilot have yet to match its abilities
as an airplane.
Take care,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Francis Butler
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 18:13
--> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
Lets not scare anybody with limited tail-wheel time from buying a Yak 50. Any
competent pilot can easily make the transition. I bought mine when I had Zero
tail-wheel time. Two hours dual in a Champ, another half dozen hours of champ
solo time and I was off flying my 50. A little intimidating first time taxiing
out, but the aircraft does not have any hidden surprises.
On another note, any Yakkers transitioning through North Dakota To or From Oshkosh
are welcome to stop in Fargo. Have room for one maybe two yaks in my hanger
and probably more space available over at the Fargo Air Museum. Or just stop
for lunch, my hanger has large deck, grill and have refreshments in the fridge.
Advance notice of arrival would be appreciated. Located on the South-East
corner of Fargo (FAR) directly North of Fargo Air Museum. Even you CJ guys
are welcome.
Regards,
Francis Butler
hanger 701 239-4532
cell 701 238-1826
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Vinyl word source! |
After paint I'd like to reinstall all the original markings. Can anyone tell me
if there is a vinyl letter source for the Chinese words on the CJ??
Thanks
Larry
Larry Pine
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 / |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Francis,
I had limited tailwheel time when I checked out in my 50. There are some
gotcha's for sure and it can be handled with limited time, just think that
the more tailwheel time you got in a complex tailwheel will be of benefit.
The T-6 is not the answer for this airplane for sure. Did not fly the TW
before picking up my 50. Would have liked to have done that but things just
did not workout that way. I did do about a day of backseat landings in my
52 after completing my check out in a Champ and a L13 in 25 kt xwinds last
March. Got the sign off after 3 hours but then went and flew the 52 from
the trunk to get more of the sight picture for final/landing. That helped
some but I would not say it made a great deal of difference. Flying a
glider for a couple of years probably helped too as far as having clues in
the clue bag before jumping in the 50. Taking off and flying around was
like any other airplane. It was the landings that got the pucker factor up
on those first sorties!
50 is a blast no matter how you cut it. Love it and I thought I loved the
52!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 7/20/2006 5:21:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: OSH Yak Forum/ yak 50 /
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
>
>
> Lets not scare anybody with limited tail-wheel time from buying a Yak 50.
Any competent pilot can easily make the transition. I bought mine when I
had Zero tail-wheel time. Two hours dual in a Champ, another half dozen
hours of champ solo time and I was off flying my 50. A little intimidating
first time taxiing out, but the aircraft does not have any hidden
surprises.
>
> On another note, any Yakkers transitioning through North Dakota To or
yaks in my hanger and probably more space available over at the Fargo Air
Museum. Or just stop for lunch, my hanger has large deck, grill and have
refreshments in the fridge. Advance notice of arrival would be
appreciated. Located on the South-East corner of Fargo (FAR) directly
North of Fargo Air Museum. Even you CJ guys are welcome.
>
> Regards,
> Francis Butler
> hanger 701 239-4532
> cell 701 238-1826
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re:LET'S NOT SCARE ANYBODY |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Umscheid <netmaster15@juno.com>
Francis,
Have you sold your YAK 50 yet? An acquaintance has asked me "will Mr
Butler allow me to fly the aircraft before I put up earnest money"?
He has no tailwheel time but is willing to acquire 2 hours of dual in a
Piper cub before he sets out for North Dakota , He is a competent ,low
time Cessna 152 pilot with approximately 200 hours of flight time. I
told him that was YOUR decision, however, the least he should expect is
to
have you crouch on the wing and give him a gentle, non-alarming ,
pre-start, pre-taxi,pre-flight briefing.
Now, Francis, I must tell you that I love MY YAK 50 so much, I am
thinking of buying a second copy to keep at my summer time No. Carolina
home. That way I can avoid the necessity of a multi-stop, round trip
from Florida to N.C. each year. Would you be so kind as to send me the
specs --component times and equipment plus spares --applicable to your
aircraft .When were the control surfaces recovered last?
Warm Regards,
Cliff
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:12:50 -0500 Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
writes:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler
> <francisbutler@mac.com>
>
>
> Lets not scare anybody with limited tail-wheel time from buying a
> Yak 50. Any competent pilot can easily make the transition. I
> bought mine when I had Zero tail-wheel time. Two hours dual in a
> Champ, another half dozen hours of champ solo time and I was off
> flying my 50. A little intimidating first time taxiing out, but the
> aircraft does not have any hidden surprises.
>
> On another note, any Yakkers transitioning through North Dakota To
> or From Oshkosh are welcome to stop in Fargo. Have room for one
> maybe two yaks in my hanger and probably more space available over
> at the Fargo Air Museum. Or just stop for lunch, my hanger has
> large deck, grill and have refreshments in the fridge. Advance
> notice of arrival would be appreciated. Located on the South-East
> corner of Fargo (FAR) directly North of Fargo Air Museum. Even you
> CJ guys are welcome.
>
> Regards,
> Francis Butler
> hanger 701 239-4532
> cell 701 238-1826
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re:LET'S NOT SCARE ANYBODY |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
Do not archive
Cliff
Have not sold my 50 yet. Kind of why I don't want to many stories out there intimidating
prospective buyers. Yes, the 50 could be a challenge for the unaware,
but any competent Yak 52 pilot can catch on quickly, not sure of the CJ guys
though. (kidding, just kidding)
I recently reduced the price to a very attractive level considering the equipment
that goes with the aircraft and the Hoffman 3 blade prop upgrade ($12,000).
Sorry, cant let your buddy fly the aircraft before the sale. Even if it was
a 152, I would not let a prospective buyer fly solo. Be glad to demonstrate
starting, taxi, and will fly it around the patch so he can see it fly. Someone
is going to get a very nice 50 at a very fair price. I can deliver it if
need be.
I to love this airplane. Every time I taxi in from a flight, I tell myself to
pull it off the market. Actually kind of hope it doesn't sell for awhile as I
would like to fly it down to the Yak deal in Selma this Fall. When I had my
52, I was in Selma a couple of times for instruction from Gennady E. and ended
up buying Scott Patterson's 50 as well a few years back.
Selma's a great place for flying and Scott and Buddy have always been very gracious
host's.
The following link will get you to a web page with all the information on my Yak
50.
http://homepage.mac.com/francisbutler/
Regards,
Francis
On Thursday, July 20, 2006, at 10:49PM, Cliff Umscheid <netmaster15@juno.com> wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Cliff Umscheid <netmaster15@juno.com>
>
>Francis,
>
>Have you sold your YAK 50 yet? An acquaintance has asked me "will Mr
>Butler allow me to fly the aircraft before I put up earnest money"?
>He has no tailwheel time but is willing to acquire 2 hours of dual in a
>Piper cub before he sets out for North Dakota , He is a competent ,low
>time Cessna 152 pilot with approximately 200 hours of flight time. I
>told him that was YOUR decision, however, the least he should expect is
>to
>have you crouch on the wing and give him a gentle, non-alarming ,
>pre-start, pre-taxi,pre-flight briefing.
> Now, Francis, I must tell you that I love MY YAK 50 so much, I am
>thinking of buying a second copy to keep at my summer time No. Carolina
>home. That way I can avoid the necessity of a multi-stop, round trip
>from Florida to N.C. each year. Would you be so kind as to send me the
>specs --component times and equipment plus spares --applicable to your
>aircraft .When were the control surfaces recovered last?
>
>Warm Regards,
>
>Cliff
>
>On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:12:50 -0500 Francis Butler <francisbutler@mac.com>
>writes:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Francis Butler
>> <francisbutler@mac.com>
>>
>>
>> Lets not scare anybody with limited tail-wheel time from buying a
>> Yak 50. Any competent pilot can easily make the transition. I
>> bought mine when I had Zero tail-wheel time. Two hours dual in a
>> Champ, another half dozen hours of champ solo time and I was off
>> flying my 50. A little intimidating first time taxiing out, but the
>> aircraft does not have any hidden surprises.
>>
>> On another note, any Yakkers transitioning through North Dakota To
>> or From Oshkosh are welcome to stop in Fargo. Have room for one
>> maybe two yaks in my hanger and probably more space available over
>> at the Fargo Air Museum. Or just stop for lunch, my hanger has
>> large deck, grill and have refreshments in the fridge. Advance
>> notice of arrival would be appreciated. Located on the South-East
>> corner of Fargo (FAR) directly North of Fargo Air Museum. Even you
>> CJ guys are welcome.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Francis Butler
>> hanger 701 239-4532
>> cell 701 238-1826
>>
>> do not archive
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