Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 AM - CJ Air Filter (Craig Payne)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 07:00 AM - Re: Wilga (Genzlinger, Reade)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: My CJ is up for Auction on EBAY-Motors (Ernie)
5. 08:14 AM - Yak 55 Part Needed - New or Used (Jill Gernetzke)
6. 02:18 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 02:47 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 08:02 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Roger Kemp)
9. 08:09 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Herb Coussons)
Message 1
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Brackett BA197E. You can order direct from the company at 928-757-4009. On my "cheese
grater". I unsoldered that fine brass wire and the slipped the foam sock
over it. Hurts MAP some but OTHO, the silicon readings on oil analysis run in
single digit PPM.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kimball Clean Kit |
I'd try either Doug Sapp first, Carl/Jill Hays or George/Cliff Coy.
Lastly, try Robb Kent in the UK.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: David McGirt
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
<!--[if !ms o]> <![endif]-->
Ok, if I wanted to order one of these springs, where would I find one?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 8:18 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Kimball Clean Kit
It's under the cap where the oil pressure adjustment screw is on the
right side of the oil pump. The adjustment screw applies the pressure
to the spring that pushes on the pressure relief valve. Remove the cap
on the right side of the oil pump. Before you remove the adjuster screw
etc., rotate the screw counterclockwise and count the number of turns
until it comes out. That way you'll have a starting point to resetting
the oil pressure. Loosen and remove the large nut and pull out the
spring and valve. Check the spring carefully. If it is bent in
anyway, replace it because the bent spring will not allow the valve to
seat properly. The valve itself will have a groove in it from where it
seats against the valve seat. The valve seat is not like a normal valve
seat which mates perfectly to the valve. It is nothing more than a
machined hole. That is why there is a groove around the valve. So
don't try polishing the seat. Just make sure there is no buildup of any
kind on the seat and it feels smooth to the touch.
You can polish the valve to remove the groove and reinstall it. If
the spring is in tact, flip it 180 degrees and reassemble everything
except leave the cap off because you will have to adjust the oil
pressure. Turn the screw in the number of turns you counted when you
removed it. Then run the engine and reset the oil pressure to the
desired level.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
Dennis,
Where can I find that relief valve?? I know it's on the oil pump but
do you have a picture or something??? Since about the last 100 hour
check up we have this problem..it looks like it's worth looking in to.
Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese
Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2006 2:34
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
The oil pressure relief valve in the oil pump and the spring that
applies the pressure on the valve are the primary problem with excessive
oil drain. I have seen the spring bent and also broken. Both caused
the valve not to seat. I have pulled the valve out, polished out the
groove, reinstalled it and stopped the excessive oil drain. Fix the
pressure relief valve and/or the spring and you will basically eliminate
the problem.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
And the oil safety valve will work perfectly UNLESS:
1. You are out of air and decide to prop the engine, which
sooner or later all of us will do.
2. Use the manual selector valve handle on the start solanoid.
Please do not misunderstand me. I think Kevin's product is
noteworthy and I will eventually buy one myself and install it. PLUS,
the current installation methods include safety designs to prevent
engine damage/loss, (such as the mentioned oil safety switch) but they
are not fool-proof.
The ONLY method I can think of that would be 100% effective would
be to tie the MAG P-Leads into this switch, would would automatically
ground them if the oil valve was closed, thus totally preventing engine
start... and of course that adds the potential of other things going
wrong.
Just being the Devil's Advocate here... as I said, I think the
valve is great.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KJKimball@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:13
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Kimball Clean
[LashBack] Kit
David,
Here is a link to the page on our website which shows the various
items we have developed and offer for the M14 engine. All these items
were originally developed for the Pitts model 12. As you can see, the
page is listed as the moose support page because we offer these items to
Murphy Moose builders as well. Yes, you can use the oil safety switch
on an electric start engine to prevent starting without the oil valve
fully open.
moose support page
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
www.pittsmo del12.com
.com/Navigator?Yak-List .com/Navigator?Yak-List
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Francis:
I have a 1993 104-80. Feel free to call any time.
215-914-0370
Reade Genzlinger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francis Butler [mailto:francisbutler@mac.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:05 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Wilga
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: My CJ is up for Auction on EBAY-Motors |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thanks,
I've got too many airplanes, and I cant give the Jet away. I'm not really flying
the CJ as much anymore since there is no one local to fly with, except for 1
neigbor of mine, but he works a lot.
Additionally, I've come to a personal decision not to fly mass formations any more,
I feel that I'm pushing my personal risk threshold. The crash of those 2
RV's just pushed me over the edge.
I still plan on attending the local RPA events but in my jet instead.
I have all info on my blog site. http://commiewarbird.blogspot.com
Ernie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57976#57976
Message 5
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| Subject: | Yak 55 Part Needed - New or Used |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
Group,
I have a customer in need of 2 of the plastic windows for the
wing-mounted fuel gauges on the Yak 55, Part number 556101-203.
Please contact me off list. Thank you!
Jill Gernetzke
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Kimball Clean Kit |
I am just playing Devil's advocate here like I said.
1. The start solenoid can be activated manually, and like I said
before, someone might also prop the aircraft.
2. Not everyone can prop a YAK or Suke with a qualified man in the
cockpit. I own a YAK-50 that was totaled that proves that point. It
was run out of air, the man propped it, and it then ran away and smashed
into a hanger. So .... respectfully... lights, buzzers, sirens, or
whistles.. nothing is 100% for sure and there are a lot of wrecked
airplanes to prove it.
All I am saying is that any system that allows any possibility of an
engine to start with a valve closed that shuts off the oil totally to
that engine, raises the possibility that it could actually some day be
started without that valve open causing the loss of that engine. Of
course the opposite is also true... we have an M-14 right here that
threw a rod in flight due to it being cranked with a hyd lock condition
that could have been prevented with the oil shut off valve!
Truthfully... one of the best systems I have seen was on a Russian
modified SU-31 that incorporated a oil shut off valve, but also had a
big red metal rod that then stuck out of the cowl right in front of the
eyes of the pilot's eyes. But even that could be over-looked.
In my mind it really is a tradeoff... risk in one direction versus risk
in another.
R/S,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Shafer
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 20:00
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
And the oil safety valve will work perfectly UNLESS:
1. You are out of air and decide to prop the engine, which sooner or
later all of us will do.
2. Use the manual selector valve handle on the start solanoid.
If you wire it like Bill Blackwell does, the power to the start solenoid
is interrupted as well. Besides we always have a pilot in the cockpit
to hit the start switch, pump the primer and hold the brakes while
someone props the plane. The pilot will recognise that the oil switch
has not been moved or he will see the big red light on the panel.
Jim Shafer
Message 7
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| Subject: | Kimball Clean Kit |
Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have
said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at
least some of them, myself.
That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut
off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the
valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small
minority.
If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one
thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates
produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas
(relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come
across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories
without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry,
but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just
as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches
pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing
Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board.
We're lucky to have someone like him around.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
KJKimball@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
Mark,
You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in
airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any
kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots
are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component
developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not
use, and abuse systems.
Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut
off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be
checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being
installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles,
etc., still land gear up.
I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve
and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this
to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock.
The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing
the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft
systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full
cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or
canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the
proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make
sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the
airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of
course, then there is no need for the pilot, right?
We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with
each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world
absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots,
politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money?
Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway....
Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user
friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in
order to be safe.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
www.jimkimballenterprises.com <http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/>
www.pittsmodel12.com <http://www.pittsmodel12.com/>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Kimball Clean Kit |
Saying all that, it still seems the Russians pretty well thought of everything
with the oil shut off valve in the oil pump. Had to clean mine about two years
ago and have not had any problems with it since. I realize the Kimballs have
some good stuff. Their intake drain being one. I have noticed that my drain valve
on the 50 does leak some after the valve is close and have seen it doing it
after engine shut down. Yes it is fully closed too. So nothing is perfect.
It is up to us the pilot in charge to make sure our steads are airworthy.
10 to 1 the hydraulic lock occured because some one shorted the pull through.
8 blades being the minimum. I prefer 14. If there is oil draining from the intake
or and exhaust stack, I pull more. If there is resistance to pulling the blade
forward, I do not pull any farther. If it is solid, then rocking the blade
back slightly will usually open a valve and the oil will puke out. If it is
not moving, the off comes the cowling and the spark plugs are pulled. Since I
already have a drain kit I do not pull the intake plugs.
Early on I asked why there was not a manual oil cutoff valve to prevent an overflow
that occures when the check valve is grunged up and allowing oil to overflow.
After seeing that the check valve that the Russians invented was so efficient
at keeping oil in my tank (particularly, I a little preventative maintenance
was done regularly), I decided not to break a system that was not broke. If
it is broke, then fix it.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: 8/28/2006 4:59:58 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I
believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them,
myself.
That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve,
sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right
now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority.
If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly
clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of
the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about
anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft,
his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds
like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise,
they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know
THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single
thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board.
We're lucky to have someone like him around.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
Mark,
You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I
am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including
Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best
efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still
find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems.
Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve
does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine
start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle
switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up.
I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean
kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am
aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock.
The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot
to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose
this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that
they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract
and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel
tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover
is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered.
Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right?
We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration.
Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct,
there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then
what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal
by then anyway....
Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly
and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
www.pittsmodel12.com
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kimball Clean Kit |
Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side
of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil
in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on
the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop
through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank.
When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil
siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod?
It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak
52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the
starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have
never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis'
Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it?
Herb
On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you
> have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing
> them, or at least some of them, myself.
>
> That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the
> shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start
> one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the
> valve are a very small minority.
>
> If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make
> one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his
> associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some
> of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything)
> that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his
> products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this
> sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone
> deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a
> crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a
> strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company
> stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to
> have someone like him around.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-
> server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit
>
> Mark,
>
> You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in
> airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of
> any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why?
> Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and
> component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to
> misuse, not use, and abuse systems.
>
> Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil
> shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which
> should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit
> system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers,
> barber poles, etc., still land gear up.
>
> I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off
> valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific
> data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to
> hydraulic lock.
>
> The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and
> forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using
> various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until
> airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will
> automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power,
> retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps,
> switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps
> are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the
> hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is
> no need for the pilot, right?
>
> We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad
> with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the
> world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers,
> pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn
> grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then
> anyway....
>
> Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more
> user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used
> properly in order to be safe.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering
> Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
> PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
> Zellwood, FL 32798
> 407-889-3451 phone
> 407-889-7168 fax
> www.jimkimballenterprises.com
> www.pittsmodel12.com
>
> .com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
>
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