---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/29/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (A. Dennis Savarese) 2. 05:25 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Bill Walker) 3. 05:38 AM - SIGHT GLASS for M14 type2 (was Kimball Clean Kit) (David McGirt) 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (David McGirt) 5. 06:03 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (A. Dennis Savarese) 6. 06:37 AM - Re: SIGHT GLASS for M14 type2 (was Kimball Clean Kit) (Rob Kent) 7. 09:13 AM - Yak 55m rudder pedal position adjustment (John Nafziger) 8. 09:42 AM - Uneven Fuel Feed (Scooter) 9. 09:54 AM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (KJKimball@aol.com) 10. 10:09 AM - Re: Yak 55 Part Needed - New or Used (Drew Hurley) 11. 10:20 AM - M14 oil & taps etc (Richard Goode) 12. 02:51 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 13. 03:37 PM - Props and blades (JOE HOWSE) 14. 04:02 PM - Re: Uneven Fuel Feed (A. Dennis Savarese) 15. 04:58 PM - Re: Uneven Fuel Feed (Craig Payne) 16. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Uneven Fuel Feed (A. Dennis Savarese) 17. 07:54 PM - Re: Kimball Clean Kit (Roger Kemp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:46 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Herb, There are many M14's out there, typically Type 1's, that do not have the access plate on the nose case that you speak of. Since there really isn't a crankshaft per sae, I would be interested in knowing how "he can see the position of the crank." and what he specifically looks for "When the crank stops in the highest 12 o'clock position". Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Coussons To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean =ashBack] Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-List ntribution y Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:55 AM PST US From: "Bill Walker" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Dennis, Yurgis had made a white mark on the gear underneath the cover at a point when the master rod crank bearing was at the twelve o'clock position. He would rotate the engine after shut down until he could see his mark. Apparently, having the master rod crank bearing at the twelve o'clock position prevents the posibility of siphoning out of the oil tank that can occur occasionally when a piece of carbon or whatever prevents the check valve from closing completely. BW ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Herb, There are many M14's out there, typically Type 1's, that do not have the access plate on the nose case that you speak of. Since there really isn't a crankshaft per sae, I would be interested in knowing how "he can see the position of the crank." and what he specifically looks for "When the crank stops in the highest 12 o'clock position". Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Coussons To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean =ashBack] Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-List ntribution y Browse, Chat, FAQ, .com/Navigator?Yak-List ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:49 AM PST US From: "David McGirt" Subject: Yak-List: SIGHT GLASS for M14 type2 (was Kimball Clean Kit) Here is the picture of what Herb was talking about on Jergis's SU31 _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-List ntribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:00 AM PST US From: "David McGirt" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Here is a picture of it.. http://www.mcgirt.net/yak/dmcgirt/IMGP4193%20(Large).JPG _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Walker Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Dennis, Yurgis had made a white mark on the gear underneath the cover at a point when the master rod crank bearing was at the twelve o'clock position. He would rotate the engine after shut down until he could see his mark. Apparently, having the master rod crank bearing at the twelve o'clock position prevents the posibility of siphoning out of the oil tank that can occur occasionally when a piece of carbon or whatever prevents the check valve from closing completely. BW ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Herb, There are many M14's out there, typically Type 1's, that do not have the access plate on the nose case that you speak of. Since there really isn't a crankshaft per sae, I would be interested in knowing how "he can see the position of the crank." and what he specifically looks for "When the crank stops in the highest 12 o'clock position". Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Coussons Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean =ashBack] Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-List ntribution y Browse, Chat, FAQ, .com/Navigator?Yak-List .com/Navigator?Yak-List ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:24 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Thanks Bill. Very helpful. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Walker To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Dennis, Yurgis had made a white mark on the gear underneath the cover at a point when the master rod crank bearing was at the twelve o'clock position. He would rotate the engine after shut down until he could see his mark. Apparently, having the master rod crank bearing at the twelve o'clock position prevents the posibility of siphoning out of the oil tank that can occur occasionally when a piece of carbon or whatever prevents the check valve from closing completely. BW ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball =ashBack] Clean Kit Herb, There are many M14's out there, typically Type 1's, that do not have the access plate on the nose case that you speak of. Since there really isn't a crankshaft per sae, I would be interested in knowing how "he can see the position of the crank." and what he specifically looks for "When the crank stops in the highest 12 o'clock position". Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Herb Coussons To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball =ashBack] Clean =ashBack] Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-List ntribution y Browse, Chat, FAQ, .com/Navigator?Yak-List .com/Navigator?Yak-List ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:16 AM PST US From: "Rob Kent" Subject: Re: Yak-List: SIGHT GLASS for M14 type2 (was Kimball Clean Kit) Herb, The part pictured is from kit similar to Kimballs clean. The kit was made by Sergio Dallan. I've got a couple here, I'll try to dig out some pics and info and post it to the list. Regards Rob Kent Stores Manager WLAC - Russian Engineering www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk Tel: +44 1628 829 165 Mob: +44 7866 438 293 Fax: +44 1628 828 961 ----- Original Message ----- From: David McGirt To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:38 PM Subject: Yak-List: SIGHT GLASS for M14 type2 (was Kimball Clean Kit) Here is the picture of what Herb was talking about on Jergis's SU31 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 11:08 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Anyone know where to get the case acess that goes on the right side of the case when facing the engine? We had a discussion about oil in the cylinders and fluid lock at OSH. Yeargis has a glass cover on the case that if I understood correctly allows him to pull the prop through after shutdown - while he can see the position of the crank. When the crank stops in the highest 12 oclock position then no oil siphons down into the case. Does anyone in the US know of this mod? It seems simple and easy to install - 3 bolts unless you have a Yak 52TW with electric starter - then this cover is used to mount the starter. It also solves the problem of starting with no oil. I have never heard of it or seen it discussed, yet there it was on Yeargis' Sukhoi and Sergei knew of it too. Any Euro's on the list know of it? Herb On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List com/Navigator?Yak-Listntribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:12 AM PST US From: John Nafziger Subject: Yak-List: Yak 55m rudder pedal position adjustment --> Yak-List message posted by: John Nafziger The rudder pedals on the 55m look to be adjustable in the fore/aft postion. The way the pedal assembly mounts to the horizontal tube (parallel to the longitudinal axis) looks like it's intended to slide fore/aft on this tube. Is the adjustment as simple as removing bolt, reposition pedal assembly, drill new hole, hope long legs fit better? My seach of the archives didn't turn up any info. Thanks, John __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Uneven Fuel Feed From: "Scooter" --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" I'm about to tackle the mysterious Yak-52 fuel feed problem. Figured I'd first remove the caps and drain five or ten gallons to see if it was a blocked vent problem. Then, if still a problem, I'd check the lines and one-way valve. Are the fuel lines and valve easily accessable? I think there are inspection panels on either side of the sump drain. Will these give me access to the one-way valves and fuel lines? I've read in the archives about dimpling the flap in the valve. Any other advice would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58248#58248 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:06 AM PST US From: KJKimball@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Dennis, I have seen the kit on Jurgis' SU31. He assembled the airplane here at our shop when it came into the US earlier this year. There are marks made on the gears to help you align the crank to a certain position. In that position, the valves and pistons on the lower jugs are set such that the amount of oil that can get into the lowers is minimized. It doesn't really stop any flow potential. He says it doesn't really do the trick as evident by the mess on the floor. He has some of our kits to install on his 3 airplanes this winter. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax _www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/) _www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:34 AM PST US From: "Drew Hurley" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 55 Part Needed - New or Used --> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Hurley" Jill, I've got a '93 55M in New Jersey with underside damage from off airport landing last summer. However, wings, tail feathers, top, canopy and cockpit are fine, and engine is okay for core. I'd like to get rid of as a project if you know of anyone. Drew Hurley >From: Jill Gernetzke >To: Yak-List Digest List >Subject: Yak-List: Yak 55 Part Needed - New or Used >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:13:43 -0700 > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Jill Gernetzke > >Group, > >I have a customer in need of 2 of the plastic windows for the wing-mounted >fuel gauges on the Yak 55, Part number 556101-203. >Please contact me off list. Thank you! > >Jill Gernetzke >M-14P, Incorporated >4905 Flightline Drive >Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417 >(928)-681-4400 >Fax(928)681-4404 >www.m-14p.com > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:50 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Yak-List: M14 oil & taps etc M14 oil/taps etc=0A =0A 1.. The crank shaft position indicator concept came from Sergio Dallan in Italy. For a while he sold a kit combining that with an oil tap, very sim ilar to the Kimball's. In it's final version the access to the tap goes th rough a small door on the side of the engine cowling, and an additional saf ety factor was a "barbers pole" protruding through the top of the cowling, when the tap is shut. =0A 2.. Vedeneyev themselves came up with an ingenious (and very simple) solu tion to oil in the in-take tubes. It has similar drains, but rather than d ripping outside or into cans, the system was fully automatic, draining inta ke tube oil into a one litre container mounted as part of the engine. Af ter start up, a separate pipe slowly took the oil from the tank through man ifold vacuum and into the cylinders. An additional advantage is the extra oil provided on start up. It had a series of small check valves which aut omatically shut the system off during normal running. It worked well, but Vedeneyev are desperately conservative, and would not sell it because it is not certificated, and in Europe we cannot use stuff that is not. =0A 3.. In passing we have just received the first two of ten M9F (430hp) eng ines from the Veronezh Mechanical Plant, as used by the Russian Team Su-26M 3's.=0A Richard Goode Aerobatics=0A Rhodds Farm=0A Lyonshall=0A Herefordshire=0A HR5 3LW=0A United Kingdom=0A =0A Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120=0A Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389=0A Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129=0A www.russianaeros.com=0A =0A --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --=0A This message has been scanned for viruses and=0A dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com=0A MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.=0A --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:19 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Just to address the hyd lock issue that happened here. You win the bet Doc. There appears to be strong proof that the pilot didn't even bother to pull the prop through at all. The 52 did not belong to him, but in fact to two other fellas. They being "Good ole Boys" allowed this guy to fly their 52. The pilot just hopped in and cranked the thing right up. Apparently he had been doing this for some time... the first time by accident.... but when nothing happened THAT time, he decided that it was all a waste of time anyway. He actually got away with it longer than any of us might imagine. On the day in question, there was oil blown back 10 feet in a spray pattern from the exhaust from the initial start. Imagine that. 10 minutes after takeoff the engine started shaking... rather violently. He managed to get back to the airport safely. Piston rod broken, damage all over the place... too much for any chance of repair. Wait.. it gets better. This same gent wrecked a Pitts S-1 when he took it up on his first flight after purchase (without any kind of checkout what-so-ever) and then tried to land it with an 18 knot crosswind. He slid off the runway, then tried to take it around, hit a runway marker, then cartwheeled down the runway. He walked away with a few scratches. Pitts was totalled. By the way, there was another runway facing directly into the wind, but his girlfriend would not have been able to watch him land on THAT runway. He had never flown a Pitts before, and his last tailwheel time was 2 years earlier... in a Skybolt. Of course, then he was violated from the tower for doing aerobatics within the Class D. He still has his ticket, and he still is flying... a twin now. All this in less than one year. Truth is more bizarre than fiction folks. Mark Bitterlich N50YK ________________________________ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 23:01 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Saying all that, it still seems the Russians pretty well thought of everything with the oil shut off valve in the oil pump. Had to clean mine about two years ago and have not had any problems with it since. I realize the Kimballs have some good stuff. Their intake drain being one. I have noticed that my drain valve on the 50 does leak some after the valve is close and have seen it doing it after engine shut down. Yes it is fully closed too. So nothing is perfect. It is up to us the pilot in charge to make sure our steads are airworthy. 10 to 1 the hydraulic lock occured because some one shorted the pull through. 8 blades being the minimum. I prefer 14. If there is oil draining from the intake or and exhaust stack, I pull more. If there is resistance to pulling the blade forward, I do not pull any farther. If it is solid, then rocking the blade back slightly will usually open a valve and the oil will puke out. If it is not moving, the off comes the cowling and the spark plugs are pulled. Since I already have a drain kit I do not pull the intake plugs. Early on I asked why there was not a manual oil cutoff valve to prevent an overflow that occures when the check valve is grunged up and allowing oil to overflow. After seeing that the check valve that the Russians invented was so efficient at keeping oil in my tank (particularly, I a little preventative maintenance was done regularly), I decided not to break a system that was not broke. If it is broke, then fix it. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: 8/28/2006 4:59:58 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:31 PM PST US From: JOE HOWSE Subject: Yak-List: Props and blades Anyone interested I have two J9G1 props overhauled and yellow tagged by a Canadian shop, 2250 each New J9G1 prop blades 600 per pair. Contact me off list or phone Joe Howse joeh@shaw.ca ph. 250 748 2203 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:34 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Uneven Fuel Feed --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Scooter, The uneven fuel feed is perfectly normal in the 52. Most feed from the left tank first down to about 40-45 liters and then the right starts to come down. First try flying the airplane with your feet off the rudder pedals and see if the airplane is yawing left or right. First correct the yaw problem before you go digging into any fuel feed problem. BTW, the inspection panels under the wing root panels will not give you access to the fuel valves. They are under the front seat in the junction where the fuel lines from the left and right tanks come together. The fuel lines coming into this junction connect directly to the main fuel tanks. You'll have to remove the lower wing panels to get to these fittings. You can easily check the vent lines by removing the fuel cap on one tank and blowing hard into the fuel vent line under the fuselage or you can use regular shop air. Have someone listen at the tank opening. They should hear the air bubbling through the tank. Repeat the procedure for the other tank. As I said earlier, unequal fuel feeding is very common and it is because we tend to use a lot of left rudder. So please don't overreact to the unequal fuel feed. Now if it goes down to 20 liters on one side before the other side starts to feed, you may want to inspect the valves at the junction under the seat. Hope this helps. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scooter" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: Yak-List: Uneven Fuel Feed > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" > > I'm about to tackle the mysterious Yak-52 fuel feed problem. Figured I'd > first remove the caps and drain five or ten gallons to see if it was a > blocked vent problem. Then, if still a problem, I'd check the lines and > one-way valve. Are the fuel lines and valve easily accessable? I think > there are inspection panels on either side of the sump drain. Will these > give me access to the one-way valves and fuel lines? I've read in the > archives about dimpling the flap in the valve. Any other advice would be > appreciated. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58248#58248 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:02 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: Re: Uneven Fuel Feed Scooter, I would agree with what Dennis said but add that it is worthwhile to level the airplane side-to-side on the jacks with a level across the canopy rails. Once that is done, tweek the adjustable ball levels on the T&B and AH. Helps to know whether the error is out-of-rig or just misadjusted guages. I admit to finding skid/slip balls out of whack on my airplane, causing me to hold some rudder. Happens often after periods of acro. Craig Payne cpayne@joimail.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:58 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Uneven Fuel Feed Good point Craig. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: yak-list Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Uneven Fuel Feed Scooter, I would agree with what Dennis said but add that it is worthwhile to level the airplane side-to-side on the jacks with a level across the canopy rails. Once that is done, tweek the adjustable ball levels on the T&B and AH. Helps to know whether the error is out-of-rig or just misadjusted guages. I admit to finding skid/slip balls out of whack on my airplane, causing me to hold some rudder. Happens often after periods of acro. Craig Payne cpayne@joimail.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:16 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Living proof, God protects fools and drunks. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: 8/29/2006 5:06:29 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Just to address the hyd lock issue that happened here. You win the bet Doc. There appears to be strong proof that the pilot didn't even bother to pull the prop through at all. The 52 did not belong to him, but in fact to two other fellas. They being "Good ole Boys" allowed this guy to fly their 52. The pilot just hopped in and cranked the thing right up. Apparently he had been doing this for some time... the first time by accident.... but when nothing happened THAT time, he decided that it was all a waste of time anyway. He actually got away with it longer than any of us might imagine. On the day in question, there was oil blown back 10 feet in a spray pattern from the exhaust from the initial start. Imagine that. 10 minutes after takeoff the engine started shaking... rather violently. He managed to get back to the airport safely. Piston rod broken, damage all over the place... too much for any chance of repair. Wait.. it gets better. This same gent wrecked a Pitts S-1 when he took it up on his first flight after purchase (without any kind of checkout what-so-ever) and then tried to land it with an 18 knot crosswind. He slid off the runway, then tried to take it around, hit a runway marker, then cartwheeled down the runway. He walked away with a few scratches. Pitts was totalled. By the way, there was another runway facing directly into the wind, but his girlfriend would not have been able to watch him land on THAT runway. He had never flown a Pitts before, and his last tailwheel time was 2 years earlier... in a Skybolt. Of course, then he was violated from the tower for doing aerobatics within the Class D. He still has his ticket, and he still is flying... a twin now. All this in less than one year. Truth is more bizarre than fiction folks. Mark Bitterlich N50YK From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 23:01 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Saying all that, it still seems the Russians pretty well thought of everything with the oil shut off valve in the oil pump. Had to clean mine about two years ago and have not had any problems with it since. I realize the Kimballs have some good stuff. Their intake drain being one. I have noticed that my drain valve on the 50 does leak some after the valve is close and have seen it doing it after engine shut down. Yes it is fully closed too. So nothing is perfect. It is up to us the pilot in charge to make sure our steads are airworthy. 10 to 1 the hydraulic lock occured because some one shorted the pull through. 8 blades being the minimum. I prefer 14. If there is oil draining from the intake or and exhaust stack, I pull more. If there is resistance to pulling the blade forward, I do not pull any farther. If it is solid, then rocking the blade back slightly will usually open a valve and the oil will puke out. If it is not moving, the off comes the cowling and the spark plugs are pulled. Since I already have a drain kit I do not pull the intake plugs. Early on I asked why there was not a manual oil cutoff valve to prevent an overflow that occures when the check valve is grunged up and allowing oil to overflow. After seeing that the check valve that the Russians invented was so efficient at keeping oil in my tank (particularly, I a little preventative maintenance was done regularly), I decided not to break a system that was not broke. If it is broke, then fix it. Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: 8/28/2006 4:59:58 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Kevin, you are absolutely correct and I agree with every word you have said. I believe in your system(s), and plan on purchasing them, or at least some of them, myself. That said, I am sure that if every M-14 equipped aircraft had the shut off valve, sooner or later some yahoo would manage to start one with the valve off. Right now, the ones equipped with the valve are a very small minority. If after this discourse, anyone has any doubt at all, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I believe that Kevin Kimball and his associates produce some of the finest parts and come up with some of the best ideas (relating to just about anything and everything) that I have ever come across. I recommend his aircraft, his products and his accessories without doubt or question. If this sounds like a commercial.... sorry, but I believe when someone deserves praise, they ought to get it, just as when someone is a crook, the world needs to know THAT... no punches pulled. I am a strong advocate and supporter of every single thing Kevin's company stands for, has made, or has on the drawing board. We're lucky to have someone like him around. Mark Bitterlich N50YK -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KJKimball@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 19:45 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Kimball Clean Kit Mark, You are correct to point out a lack of 100% fool proof systems in airplanes. I am not aware of a single 100% fool proof system of any kind in an airplane including Yaks and Pitts Model 12s. Why? Pilots are human and despite the best efforts of designers and component developers, these flawed human pilots still find ways to misuse, not use, and abuse systems. Your 2 bulleted points are valid but it should be noted that an oil shut off valve does not eliminate the oil pressure gauge which should be checked at engine start with or without a clean kit system being installed. Airplanes with throttle switches, buzzers, barber poles, etc., still land gear up. I am not aware of any M14 engine loss related to an oil shut off valve and clean kit, ours or others. Maybe someone has specific data on this to share. I am aware of many engine losses due to hydraulic lock. The only real method we have today is the use of check lists and forcing the pilot to be a creature of trained habit in using various aircraft systems. I suppose this will have to do until airplanes have full cognitive reasoning so that they will automatically latch the door or canopy properly, set the power, retract and extend the gear at the proper times, handle the flaps, switch fuel tanks, fill the tanks, make sure the gas and oil caps are secure, the pilot cover is off and the airplane is clear of the hangar door before the door is lowered. Of course, then there is no need for the pilot, right? We can't make everything perfect....only progressively less bad with each iteration. Besides, once we humans get everything in the world absolutely correct, there would be no work for engineers, pilots, politicians, doctors, etc. Then what will I do to earn grocery money? Airplanes will most likely be illegal by then anyway.... Shut off valves and scavenge systems do make the M14 engine more user friendly and less messy. However, they have to be used properly in order to be safe. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com www.pittsmodel12.com .com/Navigator?Yak-List .com/Navigator?Yak-List