Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic balan (Kregg Victory)
2. 07:47 AM - [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Request for Info (flir47)
3. 11:48 AM - Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic balan (Scooter)
4. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Request for Info (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: gills (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 02:08 PM - Re: Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 04:49 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Request for Info (Roger Kemp)
8. 05:15 PM - Re: Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting (Roger Kemp)
9. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic balan (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 05:50 PM - F-16 out turning an F-4 picture (Drew Blahnick)
11. 06:24 PM - Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture (cjpilot710@aol.com)
12. 07:02 PM - Yak 55 midair (Jeff Linebaugh)
13. 07:11 PM - Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture (Roger Kemp)
14. 08:33 PM - Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture (David McGirt)
15. 08:40 PM - Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture (Tim Gagnon)
16. 08:48 PM - THIS IS NOT A ACM THREAD....No Guts No Glory...Boots Blesse (Tim Gagnon)
17. 10:29 PM - Re: Mag coil (Jason Bialek)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic |
balan
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kregg Victory" <kregg@balancemyprop.com>
Where are you? I may be able to recommend someone closer than I am. Also
when checking your blade angles use a digital level, and check it 8" in from
the tip of the blades.
Kregg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent
vibration-dynamic balan
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
thanks. i plan on double checking (to several decimal places) the prop
angle. i'm on the opposite coast from you and i am not flying this thing to
california :)
kregg(at)balancemyprop.co wrote:
> The only way to really reduce the vibration of the prop is to make sure
that
> the blade angles are correct and making sure the hub serviceable too.
Once
> that is done you should have it dynamically balanced. I specialize in
> dynamic balancing and vibration analysis. Every yak I balanced made a
> significant improvement in the vibration level. This is especially good
for
> the gear reduction as well.
>
> Where are you located?
>
> You can also read more about balancing at www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
> Thanks
> Kregg Victory
> 408-836-5122
> www.balancemyprop.com
>
>
>
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61053#61053
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Request for Info |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Ya I know ...I was rolling with it too... you seem like a real nice guy....
--------
Dont own a Yak unless you can afford to be married to a maintenance schedule!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61179#61179
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic balan |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
thanks, i'm in the DC area.
does anyone know the torque values for the hub bolts? also, it doesn't look like
there's a way to get a torque wrench in there without some disassembly or creativity.
kregg(at)balancemyprop.co wrote:
> Where are you? I may be able to recommend someone closer than I am. Also
> when checking your blade angles use a digital level, and check it 8" in from
> the tip of the blades.
>
> Kregg
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61227#61227
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Request for Info |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Thanks Mike.... And everyone else too.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bell
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 22:28
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Request for Info
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Bell" <yakflyr@comcast.net>
Mark, the guy who used to make radial engine exhaust systems in Jumping
Branch, WV was quite expert at bending tubing. I believe he retired and
sold the radial engine exhaust business to either Kimball or Culp. Maybe
that kind of expertise could do the job?
--------
Mike Bell
Yak 52
Elk Grove, CA
yakflyr@comcastdotnet
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Hey Jason, just curious. I have never seen a Sukhoi that has "gills".
They use an IRIS arangement instead of a gill setup. The YAK gills are
CLOSE to the same between the 50 and the 52, the only real difference
being in the shafts that go inside the gills, so they are pretty much
interchangable. The YAK-55 uses a completely difference arrangement.
The YAK-54 is also unique to the best of my knowledge.
My opinion is that you are asking for trouble if you replace the gill
system on a YAK with the IRIS system used on a Sukhoi. Some people
disagree, but none of them have 700 hours on their aircraft either.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jason Bialek
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:08
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: gills
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jason Bialek" <jandhbialek@hotmail.com>
Does anyone have any Sukhoi gills they can part with? I'd prefer the
Sukhoi gills given some previous advice I got but if anyone has any Yak
gills I could use those also.
Thank you,
Jason
Message 6
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| Subject: | Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Harry, I do not have a 50 electrical diagram (Doc if you have one, I'd
dearly love to get a copy), but I have traced out a lot of it, and most
of what I have seen duplicates the 52 in many ways. I am going to need
the full electrical diagram to help you out further, but I have a lot of
comments to make here. Also, please excuse my lack of tact, I am an
EA-6B Avionics Tech Rep by profession and I work on problems like this
ALL the time. There are a few general rules that you always go by when
dealing with this type of nonsense.
A. Always suspect what was last worked on as the FIRST place you should
look for a problem. If human hands have recently been involved anywhere
near wiring, and you now have an electrical problem that you never had
before... GO WHERE PEOPLE RECENTLY PUT THEIR HANDS AND LOOK THERE FIRST.
You'd be amazed at how often that rule is ignored out of simple ego, but
boy is it accurate!
B. If you are dealing with a system of wires, switches, lights, etc.,
always suspect any part that moves, like switches, as being the first
thing you check for failure.
C. NEVER EVER reset a circuit breaker more than once if it pops. You
NEVER, EVER EVER troubleshoot a problem like this by pulling this wire,
or that wire, and then turning on the breaker again to see if it pops.
There are many reasons for this, but the most obvious is that you can
easily end up starting an electrical fire, and please keep in mind where
the fuel tanks are in your YAK-50. For example, let's say a wire was
arcing out against your fuel tank. Not hard to imagine since it is only
inches away from your wiring. Each time you reset that breaker you get
an ARC. Eventually the arc actually cuts a hole in the tank and now you
have gas fumes adding into the mess. Explosion, fire, you name it. You
can also generate a wiring fire, even without gas involved. Bottom
line, stop doing that and never do it again... Please. Anyone that says
I am wrong in this regard is an idiot.... Avoid them.
Ok. So you now ask... How do I troubleshoot this problem WITHOUT doing
that? The answer requires you to have a grasp of the basics of
electrically, which you admitted that you do not have, but here we go, I
am going to teach you one trick now and anyone else who bothers to read
this.
You did exactly the right thing when you took the wires off the circuit
breaker/switch. You need to get an electrical meter and learn how to
read DC VOLTS with it. It's pretty easy. Set it to DC VOLTS, hook the
black wire to aircraft ground (any good bonding point in the aircraft
itself to the frame) and then use the red wire to touch a wire and read
voltage. Turn on your electrical master.. The one marked BATTERY. Now
look at the switch going to the gear. With the switch turned off, one
side will have 28 volts on it, and the other side will have NO volts on
it. The side with NO volts on it will be the one we want to mess with
first. In this case, you have already done that part... You have
located a wire that if you pull it off, it stops the problem. Luckily
nothing that we know of blew up in the process. God loves you.
What you need to do now is to learn how to troubleshoot to the next
step. One good way to accomplish this is by rigging the aircraft so
that it limits the current draw to this wire. The wire that you found
is going to a short circuit, and that is why the breaker is popping.
You need to locate some 28 volt light bulbs. If you do not have any, I
will send you some. Let me know. You get about a 25 watt bulb rated at
28 volts (again, I will be glad to give you as many as you need). You
solder two wires to this light bulb. Now, hook one wire of the bulb (it
does not matter which one) to the terminal on the switch. Hook the
other wire soldered to the light bulb to the wire that you have hanging
that used to connect to the switch.
Now when you turn on your switch, your light bulb will come on, because
you have a short to ground in the aircraft wiring SOMEPLACE. But the
circuit breaker/switch will NOT blow anymore, because the light bulb
that you just installed in series between the wire you pulled off, and
the switch itself, will limit the current to ONE AMP (plus or minus a
tiny bit). All the wiring and crap in the aircraft can handle one amp
with ease. If you want to lower the amount of current, just use a
smaller bulb... For example a 12 watt bulb would give you a maximum
current draw of about 1/2 amp. Current in this case will be equal to
the wattage of the bulb divided by the voltage.
You can now start trying to find the problem by tracing and removing
other wires, as you were doing before, or simply by jiggling things
around.
Some might recommend that instead of doing it this way, you simply use
an OHM METER connected to your wire that you pulled OFF the switch.
This will also work if you know exactly what you are doing, but the
light bulb trick makes finding a problem like this easier and it is an
ACTIVE versus a PASSIVE check. If the bulb is brightly lit, you have a
short circuit involved. Which is of course what you DO have. When the
bulb goes out, or gets very dim... You just located the problem.
You need to be more detailed with your explanation if you could please.
There are NO SQUAT switches in the YAK-50. A SQUAT switch is one that
closes when you LAND THE AIRPLANE and put weight on the landing gear.
The YAK-50 does not have anything like that.
Instead there are FOUR switches that control the landing gear lights on
the 50. One switch for each light on the dash. There are two switches
on the left side, and two switches on the RIGHT side. ONE SWITCH FOR
EACH LIGHT! You are only seeing the switch back behind the gear
actuator where the wheels go into the hole. There is ANOTHER switch
that is located underneath a panel right behind the gear leg itself.
The panel right behind that landing gear fiberglass shroud.
I do not know of any electrical motors behind the instrument panel.
There is of course the electrical inverter for the attitude indicator
(if you still have it installed) behind the seat. At this point, I
would not waste a lot of time looking for the weird noise... Since you
already have enough other weird crap already happening.
You took the fairings off the wing root(s) and have access to the wiring
connections going out to the pitot probe and the switches. REMEMBER
AGAIN... Two switches on each landing gear! Anyway, that is a good
thing. You might want to do the same for the other side too, so that
you can access that wiring, but I suspect the wiring short circuit is
not out there.
QUESTIONS:
What happens in the cockpit when you leave the instrument breaker OFF
and just turn on the landing gear breaker?
What happens when you turn on the instrument breaker and leave the
landing gear breaker off?
REALLY NEED TO KNOW THE ABOVE ANSWERS.
What is obvious here is that when you apply voltage to wire 05-cw2-01 by
connecting it to the switch and turning it on, the voltage through this
wire is shorting to some other WIRE that it should not be doing. The
problem is that this wire is also obviously the main voltage feed for
the landing gear circuits. The voltage on this wire feeds to all four
of the landing gear switches... The two UP switches and the two DOWN
switches. Wires coming back from these switches then go to the light
bulbs in the cockpit themselves and make them come on. So picture that
in your mind.... Voltage comes out this wire (the one hooked to the
switch), and someplace goes to a terminal board and splits to go out to
all four switches. It then comes BACK from those switches and goes BACK
into the instrument panel and to the lights themselves.
Next, consider that you have had a problem on the LEFT side of the
aircraft for quite some time. This has been a case where the landing
gear DOWN switch has probably gone bad or is out of adjustment. Again,
you need to locate that switch, because that is yet another problem,
probably not related to this current mess.
The short circuit you are dealing with is probably NOT in the wings.
When you pressed the switch on the right landing gear, and then the
light for the left gear lit up, this is not a case of a wire switched
around, this is a case of some wires that are SHORTED TOGETHER.
So some advice.
When describing what switches you are pushing in the future, make sure
you name them correctly. One is for right gear down and locked. One is
for right gear UP and locked. Same thing for the left side. No squat
switches ok?
It appears that the wire that is shorted is one of the wires coming BACK
from one of the switches TO the lights on the instrument panel. One of
THOSE wires has shorted to another wire or wires causing all the other
lights to come on. Most likely it is a short to the TEST SWITCH that
causes all those other lights to come on. So to repeat, this is
probably a dead short between one of the wires coming back from the
landing gear position switches, that is shorted to the TEST switch
WIRING.
To repeat again, the way I would try to find this would be to pull the
05-CW2-01 wire off the switch as you already had done. The install the
28 volt light bulb with the wires connected to it in series. It will
go: switch, wire, bulb, wire, then hooked to the 05-CW2-01 wire itself.
In SERIES. You will then limit the current draw and will pose little
to zero risk of blowing anything up any further. When you turn on the
switch, this light will come on brightly. If you want, you can put
plenty of wire on the bulb and remote it out of the cockpit so it does
not get in the way. Have someone watch this bulb like a hawk. Now get
your hands back in the wiring and start moving wires and wire bundles
around... All over the place. When you see that light bulb start
flickering wildly, you are on top of the problem.
A complete wiring diagram will be really handy. I do not have one.
HOWEVER... This is not a case of a failed component. This is a case of
some wires shorting together that were never meant to be. Wire
CHAFFING, or rubbing under a clamp, etc.
There is a very VERY small chance of a relay failing internally ...
Literally falling apart inside, and shorting everything out that could
cause this. This would be the light bulb TEST RELAY that is turned on
with the light test push button, and we would definitely need the
schematics to identify which relay this is. It is also possible that
this relay got fried during this failure. So other than wiring, this
would be the first component I would spot light for sure.
Harry.. You're out on the west coast aren't you?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
P.s. Rewiring the aircraft is a do-able thing, but man oh man, it would
cost a small fortune.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harry
Hirschman
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 14:38
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting
--> Yak-List message posted by: Harry Hirschman <hairball192@yahoo.com>
All:
I'd appreciate any assistance people are willing to provide to assist me
in troubleshooting my Yak-50's electrical system.
Symptoms:
1. Chronic problem of the left gear down indicator light on or off-on
when landing gear is up (with two red up-and-locked lights also on)
2. Recently all annunciator lights (all four gear indicators,
generator, Over-G, chip, all cells on fuel
ladder) flashing on-off; Last flight all annunciator lights were on and
steady (same look as pushing the press-to-test by the gear handle)
3. My electrical switches are labeled "Gear" and "Inst"; The "Inst"
switch controls the proper reading of the fuel ladder (ie: it reads the
correct amount of fuel with this switch on), generator annunciator light
and engine instruments; The "gear" switch controls the landing gear
position indicator lights, all the light cells on the fuel ladder (same
as pushing the "k"
button to test the fuel indicator), the chip light and the over-G light
In troubleshooting over the weekend, I performed the following steps and
got the following results:
1. Turned on the following switches: Battery, inst, and gear; All
annunciator lights came on, I heard what I think is some kind of
electrical motor wind up for a few seconds, then the "Gear"
switch-breaker flipped itself off and the associated annunciator lights
went off and the sound ceased
2. After cycling the switch a half dozen times with my head under the
panel to try to locate the noise, the motor stopped coming on with the
gear switch, but it continues to break to the off position after several
seconds in the on position; There is about a 2 amp draw with the "gear"
switch on as indicated by the aircraft guage; The noise was coming from
behind the instrument panel, but I couldn't locate the component
3. There are two wires attached to the "gear" switch; Removed the wire
labeled 05-CW1 and turned on the batt, inst and gear switches with the
same result -- 2 amp draw and gear switch breaks to off after several
seconds
4. Removed the wire labeled 05-CW2-01 and turned on the batt, inst and
gear switches and now the gear switch does not break, the elec system
remains on; The landing gear indicator lights, fuel ladder lights, chip
light, and over-G light do not illuminate (proper fuel indication,
generator light on, and engine instruments are powered) -- so the bad
wire is this one, I think
5. Re-installed both wires and verified that the system fails in the
same way as before
6. Friends manually held both landing gear position squat switches in
the "gear-up" position and turned the electrical switches off with the
same result -- Gear switch breaks to off after several seconds
7. Disconnected the left gear position squat switch at the bus bar in
the wing root by removing the lower three of the four wires (I believe
the top wire is for pitot heat) and turned on the batt, inst and gear
switches -- GOT IT -- Same result as step 4 above -- Gear switch does
not break, the elec system remains on with a right gear down green
light; I'm fuzzy on this part, but I believe I did the push-to-test for
the annunciator lights and all worked EXCEPT the chip light and over-G
light
8. And then the plot thickens -- With the electrical system on,
manually depressed the RIGHT landing gear squat switch -- The RIGHT gear
down light went out and the LEFT gear up light went on (hopefully a
simple crossed wire) AND got a 2.5 amp draw and the gear switch broke to
the off position after several seconds
Only two things scare me and both of them are electricity, so I wouldn't
have been able to do any of this without the able help of some airport
buds (Ken and John). I hope I've given those who know something about
this enough information to narrow things down for me.
I've got a couple of specific questions in addition to the overall
recommendations I hope will be
forthcoming:
- What electrical component do you think was making the noise described
in troubleshooting steps 1 and 2?
- It looks like there are separate parts for the left and right landing
gear squat switches; Is that true?
- From anyone out there has removed the entire Russian electrical system
and rewired new, how much time and money did that take? Do you have a
parts list for the new system?
- Does anyone out there have an electrical diagram for the Yak-50?
Many thanks in advance to everyone who's read this far and to those who
take the time to respond.
Regards,
Harry
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Request for Info |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Most of the time. My wife may not always agree but... Today the OR staff
may not feel that way since they have me 3 hours behind now and I'm having
to cancel the afternoon office. Seems a instrument I need has been lost,
found and now has to be sterilized for 45 mins. Oh well, roll with the
punches and press on.
Have a good one and keep doing what we really makes us smile! Flying
YAKs/CJ's!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: flir47 <me262pilot@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/12/2006 10:02:32 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Request for Info
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
>
> Ya I know ...I was rolling with it too... you seem like a real nice
guy....
>
> --------
> Dont own a Yak unless you can afford to be married to a maintenance
schedule!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61179#61179
>
>
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Good discription Mark, I am not an electrician/avionics guy by any sense of
the word. Took in physics and remember a thimb full. I will send you the
wiring diagram I currently have courtesy of Tim Gagnon. Credit be given
where due. Send me a fax # offline and when I get back to the office
tomorrow.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>.
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/12/2006 4:18:49 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Harry, I do not have a 50 electrical diagram (Doc if you have one, I'd
> dearly love to get a copy), but I have traced out a lot of it, and most
> of what I have seen duplicates the 52 in many ways. I am going to need
> the full electrical diagram to help you out further, but I have a lot of
> comments to make here. Also, please excuse my lack of tact, I am an
> EA-6B Avionics Tech Rep by profession and I work on problems like this
> ALL the time. There are a few general rules that you always go by when
> dealing with this type of nonsense.
>
> A. Always suspect what was last worked on as the FIRST place you should
> look for a problem. If human hands have recently been involved anywhere
> near wiring, and you now have an electrical problem that you never had
> before... GO WHERE PEOPLE RECENTLY PUT THEIR HANDS AND LOOK THERE FIRST.
> You'd be amazed at how often that rule is ignored out of simple ego, but
> boy is it accurate!
>
> B. If you are dealing with a system of wires, switches, lights, etc.,
> always suspect any part that moves, like switches, as being the first
> thing you check for failure.
>
> C. NEVER EVER reset a circuit breaker more than once if it pops. You
> NEVER, EVER EVER troubleshoot a problem like this by pulling this wire,
> or that wire, and then turning on the breaker again to see if it pops.
> There are many reasons for this, but the most obvious is that you can
> easily end up starting an electrical fire, and please keep in mind where
> the fuel tanks are in your YAK-50. For example, let's say a wire was
> arcing out against your fuel tank. Not hard to imagine since it is only
> inches away from your wiring. Each time you reset that breaker you get
> an ARC. Eventually the arc actually cuts a hole in the tank and now you
> have gas fumes adding into the mess. Explosion, fire, you name it. You
> can also generate a wiring fire, even without gas involved. Bottom
> line, stop doing that and never do it again... Please. Anyone that says
> I am wrong in this regard is an idiot.... Avoid them.
>
> Ok. So you now ask... How do I troubleshoot this problem WITHOUT doing
> that? The answer requires you to have a grasp of the basics of
> electrically, which you admitted that you do not have, but here we go, I
> am going to teach you one trick now and anyone else who bothers to read
> this.
>
> You did exactly the right thing when you took the wires off the circuit
> breaker/switch. You need to get an electrical meter and learn how to
> read DC VOLTS with it. It's pretty easy. Set it to DC VOLTS, hook the
> black wire to aircraft ground (any good bonding point in the aircraft
> itself to the frame) and then use the red wire to touch a wire and read
> voltage. Turn on your electrical master.. The one marked BATTERY. Now
> look at the switch going to the gear. With the switch turned off, one
> side will have 28 volts on it, and the other side will have NO volts on
> it. The side with NO volts on it will be the one we want to mess with
> first. In this case, you have already done that part... You have
> located a wire that if you pull it off, it stops the problem. Luckily
> nothing that we know of blew up in the process. God loves you.
>
> What you need to do now is to learn how to troubleshoot to the next
> step. One good way to accomplish this is by rigging the aircraft so
> that it limits the current draw to this wire. The wire that you found
> is going to a short circuit, and that is why the breaker is popping.
> You need to locate some 28 volt light bulbs. If you do not have any, I
> will send you some. Let me know. You get about a 25 watt bulb rated at
> 28 volts (again, I will be glad to give you as many as you need). You
> solder two wires to this light bulb. Now, hook one wire of the bulb (it
> does not matter which one) to the terminal on the switch. Hook the
> other wire soldered to the light bulb to the wire that you have hanging
> that used to connect to the switch.
>
> Now when you turn on your switch, your light bulb will come on, because
> you have a short to ground in the aircraft wiring SOMEPLACE. But the
> circuit breaker/switch will NOT blow anymore, because the light bulb
> that you just installed in series between the wire you pulled off, and
> the switch itself, will limit the current to ONE AMP (plus or minus a
> tiny bit). All the wiring and crap in the aircraft can handle one amp
> with ease. If you want to lower the amount of current, just use a
> smaller bulb... For example a 12 watt bulb would give you a maximum
> current draw of about 1/2 amp. Current in this case will be equal to
> the wattage of the bulb divided by the voltage.
>
> You can now start trying to find the problem by tracing and removing
> other wires, as you were doing before, or simply by jiggling things
> around.
>
> Some might recommend that instead of doing it this way, you simply use
> an OHM METER connected to your wire that you pulled OFF the switch.
> This will also work if you know exactly what you are doing, but the
> light bulb trick makes finding a problem like this easier and it is an
> ACTIVE versus a PASSIVE check. If the bulb is brightly lit, you have a
> short circuit involved. Which is of course what you DO have. When the
> bulb goes out, or gets very dim... You just located the problem.
>
> You need to be more detailed with your explanation if you could please.
>
>
> There are NO SQUAT switches in the YAK-50. A SQUAT switch is one that
> closes when you LAND THE AIRPLANE and put weight on the landing gear.
> The YAK-50 does not have anything like that.
>
> Instead there are FOUR switches that control the landing gear lights on
> the 50. One switch for each light on the dash. There are two switches
> on the left side, and two switches on the RIGHT side. ONE SWITCH FOR
> EACH LIGHT! You are only seeing the switch back behind the gear
> actuator where the wheels go into the hole. There is ANOTHER switch
> that is located underneath a panel right behind the gear leg itself.
> The panel right behind that landing gear fiberglass shroud.
>
> I do not know of any electrical motors behind the instrument panel.
> There is of course the electrical inverter for the attitude indicator
> (if you still have it installed) behind the seat. At this point, I
> would not waste a lot of time looking for the weird noise... Since you
> already have enough other weird crap already happening.
>
> You took the fairings off the wing root(s) and have access to the wiring
> connections going out to the pitot probe and the switches. REMEMBER
> AGAIN... Two switches on each landing gear! Anyway, that is a good
> thing. You might want to do the same for the other side too, so that
> you can access that wiring, but I suspect the wiring short circuit is
> not out there.
>
> QUESTIONS:
>
> What happens in the cockpit when you leave the instrument breaker OFF
> and just turn on the landing gear breaker?
> What happens when you turn on the instrument breaker and leave the
> landing gear breaker off?
>
> REALLY NEED TO KNOW THE ABOVE ANSWERS.
>
> What is obvious here is that when you apply voltage to wire 05-cw2-01 by
> connecting it to the switch and turning it on, the voltage through this
> wire is shorting to some other WIRE that it should not be doing. The
> problem is that this wire is also obviously the main voltage feed for
> the landing gear circuits. The voltage on this wire feeds to all four
> of the landing gear switches... The two UP switches and the two DOWN
> switches. Wires coming back from these switches then go to the light
> bulbs in the cockpit themselves and make them come on. So picture that
> in your mind.... Voltage comes out this wire (the one hooked to the
> switch), and someplace goes to a terminal board and splits to go out to
> all four switches. It then comes BACK from those switches and goes BACK
> into the instrument panel and to the lights themselves.
>
> Next, consider that you have had a problem on the LEFT side of the
> aircraft for quite some time. This has been a case where the landing
> gear DOWN switch has probably gone bad or is out of adjustment. Again,
> you need to locate that switch, because that is yet another problem,
> probably not related to this current mess.
>
> The short circuit you are dealing with is probably NOT in the wings.
> When you pressed the switch on the right landing gear, and then the
> light for the left gear lit up, this is not a case of a wire switched
> around, this is a case of some wires that are SHORTED TOGETHER.
>
> So some advice.
>
> When describing what switches you are pushing in the future, make sure
> you name them correctly. One is for right gear down and locked. One is
> for right gear UP and locked. Same thing for the left side. No squat
> switches ok?
>
> It appears that the wire that is shorted is one of the wires coming BACK
> from one of the switches TO the lights on the instrument panel. One of
> THOSE wires has shorted to another wire or wires causing all the other
> lights to come on. Most likely it is a short to the TEST SWITCH that
> causes all those other lights to come on. So to repeat, this is
> probably a dead short between one of the wires coming back from the
> landing gear position switches, that is shorted to the TEST switch
> WIRING.
>
> To repeat again, the way I would try to find this would be to pull the
> 05-CW2-01 wire off the switch as you already had done. The install the
> 28 volt light bulb with the wires connected to it in series. It will
> go: switch, wire, bulb, wire, then hooked to the 05-CW2-01 wire itself.
> In SERIES. You will then limit the current draw and will pose little
> to zero risk of blowing anything up any further. When you turn on the
> switch, this light will come on brightly. If you want, you can put
> plenty of wire on the bulb and remote it out of the cockpit so it does
> not get in the way. Have someone watch this bulb like a hawk. Now get
> your hands back in the wiring and start moving wires and wire bundles
> around... All over the place. When you see that light bulb start
> flickering wildly, you are on top of the problem.
>
> A complete wiring diagram will be really handy. I do not have one.
> HOWEVER... This is not a case of a failed component. This is a case of
> some wires shorting together that were never meant to be. Wire
> CHAFFING, or rubbing under a clamp, etc.
>
> There is a very VERY small chance of a relay failing internally ...
> Literally falling apart inside, and shorting everything out that could
> cause this. This would be the light bulb TEST RELAY that is turned on
> with the light test push button, and we would definitely need the
> schematics to identify which relay this is. It is also possible that
> this relay got fried during this failure. So other than wiring, this
> would be the first component I would spot light for sure.
>
> Harry.. You're out on the west coast aren't you?
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Rewiring the aircraft is a do-able thing, but man oh man, it would
> cost a small fortune.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harry
> Hirschman
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 14:38
> To: Yaklist Yaklist
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak-50 Electrical System Troubleshooting
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Harry Hirschman <hairball192@yahoo.com>
>
> All:
>
> I'd appreciate any assistance people are willing to provide to assist me
> in troubleshooting my Yak-50's electrical system.
>
> Symptoms:
> 1. Chronic problem of the left gear down indicator light on or off-on
> when landing gear is up (with two red up-and-locked lights also on)
>
> 2. Recently all annunciator lights (all four gear indicators,
> generator, Over-G, chip, all cells on fuel
> ladder) flashing on-off; Last flight all annunciator lights were on and
> steady (same look as pushing the press-to-test by the gear handle)
>
> 3. My electrical switches are labeled "Gear" and "Inst"; The "Inst"
> switch controls the proper reading of the fuel ladder (ie: it reads the
> correct amount of fuel with this switch on), generator annunciator light
> and engine instruments; The "gear" switch controls the landing gear
> position indicator lights, all the light cells on the fuel ladder (same
> as pushing the "k"
> button to test the fuel indicator), the chip light and the over-G light
>
> In troubleshooting over the weekend, I performed the following steps and
> got the following results:
>
> 1. Turned on the following switches: Battery, inst, and gear; All
> annunciator lights came on, I heard what I think is some kind of
> electrical motor wind up for a few seconds, then the "Gear"
> switch-breaker flipped itself off and the associated annunciator lights
> went off and the sound ceased
>
> 2. After cycling the switch a half dozen times with my head under the
> panel to try to locate the noise, the motor stopped coming on with the
> gear switch, but it continues to break to the off position after several
> seconds in the on position; There is about a 2 amp draw with the "gear"
> switch on as indicated by the aircraft guage; The noise was coming from
> behind the instrument panel, but I couldn't locate the component
>
> 3. There are two wires attached to the "gear" switch; Removed the wire
> labeled 05-CW1 and turned on the batt, inst and gear switches with the
> same result -- 2 amp draw and gear switch breaks to off after several
> seconds
>
> 4. Removed the wire labeled 05-CW2-01 and turned on the batt, inst and
> gear switches and now the gear switch does not break, the elec system
> remains on; The landing gear indicator lights, fuel ladder lights, chip
> light, and over-G light do not illuminate (proper fuel indication,
> generator light on, and engine instruments are powered) -- so the bad
> wire is this one, I think
>
> 5. Re-installed both wires and verified that the system fails in the
> same way as before
>
> 6. Friends manually held both landing gear position squat switches in
> the "gear-up" position and turned the electrical switches off with the
> same result -- Gear switch breaks to off after several seconds
>
> 7. Disconnected the left gear position squat switch at the bus bar in
> the wing root by removing the lower three of the four wires (I believe
> the top wire is for pitot heat) and turned on the batt, inst and gear
> switches -- GOT IT -- Same result as step 4 above -- Gear switch does
> not break, the elec system remains on with a right gear down green
> light; I'm fuzzy on this part, but I believe I did the push-to-test for
> the annunciator lights and all worked EXCEPT the chip light and over-G
> light
>
> 8. And then the plot thickens -- With the electrical system on,
> manually depressed the RIGHT landing gear squat switch -- The RIGHT gear
> down light went out and the LEFT gear up light went on (hopefully a
> simple crossed wire) AND got a 2.5 amp draw and the gear switch broke to
> the off position after several seconds
>
> Only two things scare me and both of them are electricity, so I wouldn't
> have been able to do any of this without the able help of some airport
> buds (Ken and John). I hope I've given those who know something about
> this enough information to narrow things down for me.
>
> I've got a couple of specific questions in addition to the overall
> recommendations I hope will be
> forthcoming:
>
> - What electrical component do you think was making the noise described
> in troubleshooting steps 1 and 2?
>
> - It looks like there are separate parts for the left and right landing
> gear squat switches; Is that true?
>
> - From anyone out there has removed the entire Russian electrical system
> and rewired new, how much time and money did that take? Do you have a
> parts list for the new system?
>
> - Does anyone out there have an electrical diagram for the Yak-50?
>
> Many thanks in advance to everyone who's read this far and to those who
> take the time to respond.
>
> Regards,
> Harry
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent vibration-dynamic |
balan
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Gorilla tight.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Prop seal replacement and subsequent
vibration-dynamic balan
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
>
> thanks, i'm in the DC area.
>
> does anyone know the torque values for the hub bolts? also, it doesn't
> look like there's a way to get a torque wrench in there without some
> disassembly or creativity.
>
>
> kregg(at)balancemyprop.co wrote:
>> Where are you? I may be able to recommend someone closer than I am.
>> Also
>> when checking your blade angles use a digital level, and check it 8" in
>> from
>> the tip of the blades.
>>
>> Kregg
>>
>> --
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61227#61227
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | F-16 out turning an F-4 picture |
Folks, here's a long shot -
I need to locate the rather famous picture shot from the ground of the F-16 out
turning the F-4 via their contrails,
Its for the RPA manual subject chapter on turn circles, if anyone has this picture,
could you email me?
Thanks,
Drew
RPA
---------------------------------
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture |
Drew,
I remember seeing that picture. It was a long time ago in Aviation Week
magazine. Maybe you can check with them.
Pappy
Folks, here's a long shot -
I need to locate the rather famous picture shot from the ground of the F-16
out turning the F-4 via their contrails,
Its for the RPA manual subject chapter on turn circles, if anyone has this
picture, could you email me?
Thanks,
Drew
RPA
Message 12
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Check out the link below.you all be careful out there please!
Jeff
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/viewer/index.php?pid=16598&rn=49750&cl=8
31109&ch=68276&src=warbirdinformationexchange.org
<http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/viewer/index.php?pid=16598&rn=49750&cl
831109&ch=68276&src=warbirdinformationexchange.org>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture |
There is also one of the F-8 Crusader turning inside the F-4! Now I have that
one on video. I do not have the Viper out turning Ol' Double Ugly...well maybe
I do. I will have to dig out some old videos from the early 80's. Yes I was around
for the birth of the Viper and the Twin Tail Sissy too for the Eagle drivers
lurking in electron town.
Will let you know what I find. I think it is on the one that the prototype did
the gear up in the infield and broke its main stringer breaking it's back.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 9/12/2006 8:32:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture
Drew,
I remember seeing that picture. It was a long time ago in Aviation Week magazine.
Maybe you can check with them.
Pappy
Folks, here's a long shot -
I need to locate the rather famous picture shot from the ground of the F-16 out
turning the F-4 via their contrails,
Its for the RPA manual subject chapter on turn circles, if anyone has this picture,
could you email me?
Thanks,
Drew
RPA
Message 14
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| Subject: | F-16 out turning an F-4 picture |
http://www.afa.org/magazine/Jan2004/0104viper.asp
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture
There is also one of the F-8 Crusader turning inside the F-4! Now I have
that one on video. I do not have the Viper out turning Ol' Double
Ugly...well maybe I do. I will have to dig out some old videos from the
early 80's. Yes I was around for the birth of the Viper and the Twin Tail
Sissy too for the Eagle drivers lurking in electron town.
Will let you know what I find. I think it is on the one that the prototype
did the gear up in the infield and broke its main stringer breaking it's
back.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com>
Sent: 9/12/2006 8:32:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture
Drew,
I remember seeing that picture. It was a long time ago in Aviation Week
magazine. Maybe you can check with them.
Pappy
Folks, here's a long shot -
I need to locate the rather famous picture shot from the ground of the F-16
out turning the F-4 via their contrails,
Its for the RPA manual subject chapter on turn circles, if anyone has this
picture, could you email me?
Thanks,
Drew
RPA
<>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: F-16 out turning an F-4 picture |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
The Viper is a cool ride but you have to admit that old double ugly was/is an impressive
airplane. A true classic...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61314#61314
Message 16
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| Subject: | THIS IS NOT A ACM THREAD....No Guts No Glory...Boots Blesse |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
For those of you with an interest in ACM..I have No Guts, No Glory as a PDF file.
It is pretty large at 8mb. Anyway, any buff of the art should have this and
it is rare!!!!!!!!
Tim
http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=4712
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61315#61315
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jason Bialek" <jandhbialek@hotmail.com>
Is there an easy way to replace the paper capacitor in the coil without
pulling the mag and sending it for overhaul as a preventive measure? I had
one of those single quarter second "engine's off" and back on type incidents
without recurrence about 30 minutes into a flight recently and would like to
eliminate that as a factor without trying to reproduce the problem for hours
on end and without a mag overhaul that may not be necessary.
Thank you,
Jason
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