Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:41 AM - Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:35 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] ()
4. 06:17 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] ()
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running (JOE HOWSE)
6. 06:53 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] (ScottA)
8. 11:48 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Venting (Scooter)
9. 12:55 PM - CJ6 Vent (PSalter@aol.com)
10. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Venting (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 01:11 PM - Re: CJ6 Vent (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 03:34 PM - Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] (Terry Lewis)
13. 04:55 PM - Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
14. 06:17 PM - Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. (N13472@aol.com)
15. 07:44 PM - Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. (KingCJ6@aol.com)
16. 07:59 PM - Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. (ggg6@att.net)
17. 08:55 PM - Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. (Dave Laird)
18. 09:08 PM - Re: Anyone know who this is? (Ron Davis)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during this period.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux
server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to
the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a
remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard
drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded
to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade
uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are
available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much
electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer,
I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house
the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the
first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It
is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
Scott,
If you would like to resolve the Russian ignition wiring harness
forever, please contact me off-list at dsavarese@elmore.rr.com.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead tester,
it sounds like the leads may be breaking down under a load... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail 2)"
<shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover using a
laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9 cylinders seem
not to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust stacks just after
shut down and all were 220+ deg except those three which were 112ish. We
also did the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the exhaust just aft of each
cylinder). Again it showed that these 3 cylinders were not operating
properly (WD40 did not vaporize). I have pulled and checked all the
plugs, checked the left mag (another suspected problem), checked all the
wires, checked the fine fuel filter, checked the carb fuel filter,
compression checked all the cylinders (all 69+/80) and have not found
the problem. I've consulted with local mechanics who seem to be out of
ideas. I'm about ready to call in an M14 mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know
if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the yellow
sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of the
black canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27 mm
nut and extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming out.
Clean the screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the inside of
the cap you removed for debris. Make very sure the small rubber O-ring
is on the top end of the screen when it comes out and when it goes back
in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to
my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then
click the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page.
By comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2
per plug when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost
almost as much as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the
world and I have kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs. Thanks
for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the fine
fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough [LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean if
necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go
regardless of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
You did not say you tried isolating the problem to one mag or the other?
Have you looked inside the magnetos under the mag caps and checked for
adequate lubrication on the cam? Also look for obvious binding at the
points. Verify the point gap is between .25 mm and .35 mm or .010 to
.14. Ideally, .3 mm or .012. Look inside the mag cap for carbon
tracks. Gary's suggestion is also very sound and highly recommended.
Check the timing on both mags. Let me know what you did or found.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead tester,
it sounds like the leads may be breaking down under a load... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail 2)"
<shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover using a
laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9 cylinders seem
not to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust stacks just after
shut down and all were 220+ deg except those three which were 112ish. We
also did the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the exhaust just aft of each
cylinder). Again it showed that these 3 cylinders were not operating
properly (WD40 did not vaporize). I have pulled and checked all the
plugs, checked the left mag (another suspected problem), checked all the
wires, checked the fine fuel filter, checked the carb fuel filter,
compression checked all the cylinders (all 69+/80) and have not found
the problem. I've consulted with local mechanics who seem to be out of
ideas. I'm about ready to call in an M14 mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know
if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the yellow
sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of the
black canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27 mm
nut and extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming out.
Clean the screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the inside of
the cap you removed for debris. Make very sure the small rubber O-ring
is on the top end of the screen when it comes out and when it goes back
in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to
my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then
click the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page.
By comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2
per plug when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost
almost as much as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the
world and I have kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs. Thanks
for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the fine
fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough [LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean if
necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go
regardless of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
Message 3
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| Subject: | Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
Dennis,
We've done all tests/run-ups on both mags and each mag separately with
identical results. I did pull the cap on the left mag and checked
everything that you mentioned below and checked out good. It would have to
be spectacular luck (good or bad your choice of words) to have identical
ignition failures on both mags at the same time or to have the time go out
the same amount. Unless of course, there is some form of crossover I am not
aware of. Thanks for the advice though.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:47 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
You did not say you tried isolating the problem to one mag or the other?
Have you looked inside the magnetos under the mag caps and checked for
adequate lubrication on the cam? Also look for obvious binding at the
points. Verify the point gap is between .25 mm and .35 mm or .010 to .14.
Ideally, .3 mm or .012. Look inside the mag cap for carbon tracks. Gary's
suggestion is also very sound and highly recommended. Check the timing on
both mags. Let me know what you did or found.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead tester,
it sounds like the leads may be breaking down under a load... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail 2)"
<shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover using a
laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9 cylinders seem not
to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust stacks just after shut
down and all were 220+ deg except those three which were 112ish. We also did
the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the exhaust just aft of each cylinder). Again
it showed that these 3 cylinders were not operating properly (WD40 did not
vaporize). I have pulled and checked all the plugs, checked the left mag
(another suspected problem), checked all the wires, checked the fine fuel
filter, checked the carb fuel filter, compression checked all the cylinders
(all 69+/80) and have not found the problem. I've consulted with local
mechanics who seem to be out of ideas. I'm about ready to call in an M14
mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the yellow
sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of the black
canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27 mm nut and
extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming out. Clean the
screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the inside of the cap you
removed for debris. Make very sure the small rubber O-ring is on the top
end of the screen when it comes out and when it goes back in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to my
web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then click
the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page. By
comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2 per plug
when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost almost as much
as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the world and I have kits
in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs. Thanks
for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the fine
fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough [LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean if
necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go regardless
of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Yak-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Yak-List
Message 4
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| Subject: | Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
Can you "paint that Yak for $99.95." as well???
Sorry Dennis - just a joke. I do appreciate all the advice.
Oh but wait a minute - does Savarese have a new call sign??
Dennis "Earl" Savarese
Dennis "Schieb" Savarese
I leave that open to discussion.
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:35 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Scott,
If you would like to resolve the Russian ignition wiring harness
forever, please contact me off-list at dsavarese@elmore.rr.com.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead tester,
it sounds like the leads may be breaking down under a load... Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail 2)"
<shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover using a
laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9 cylinders seem not
to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust stacks just after shut
down and all were 220+ deg except those three which were 112ish. We also did
the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the exhaust just aft of each cylinder). Again
it showed that these 3 cylinders were not operating properly (WD40 did not
vaporize). I have pulled and checked all the plugs, checked the left mag
(another suspected problem), checked all the wires, checked the fine fuel
filter, checked the carb fuel filter, compression checked all the cylinders
(all 69+/80) and have not found the problem. I've consulted with local
mechanics who seem to be out of ideas. I'm about ready to call in an M14
mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the yellow
sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of the black
canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27 mm nut and
extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming out. Clean the
screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the inside of the cap you
removed for debris. Make very sure the small rubber O-ring is on the top
end of the screen when it comes out and when it goes back in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to my
web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then click
the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page. By
comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2 per plug
when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost almost as much
as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the world and I have kits
in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs. Thanks
for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the fine
fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough [LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean if
necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go regardless
of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running |
I had similar experiences with both the Huosai and M14 P engines,
Turned out to be breakdown of the mag coils ( the condenser is built
into the coil ) so that part can break down
but the mag still produces a spark, but erratic.
Cured by changing the mag coils.
Joe
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
That was uncalled for.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: shinden33@earthlink.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Can you "paint that Yak for $99.95." as well???
Sorry Dennis - just a joke. I do appreciate all the advice.
Oh but wait a minute - does Savarese have a new call sign??
Dennis "Earl" Savarese
Dennis "Schieb" Savarese
I leave that open to discussion.
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:35 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 =ashBack] Rough
Running[LashBack]
Scott,
If you would like to resolve the Russian ignition wiring harness
forever, please contact me off-list at dsavarese@elmore.rr.com.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: =ashBack] Shinden33 Rough
Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead
tester, it sounds like the leads may be breaking down und er a load...
Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail
2)" <shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover
using a laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9
cylinders seem not to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust
stacks just after shut down and all were 220+ deg except those three
which were 112ish. We also did the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the
exhaust just aft of each cylinder). Again it showed that these 3
cylinders were not operating properly (WD40 did not vaporize). I have
pulled and checked all the plugs, checked the left mag (another
suspected problem), checked all the wires, checked the fine fuel filter,
checked the carb fuel filter, compression checked all the cylinders (all
69+/80) and have not found the problem. I've consulted with local
mechanics who seem to be out of ideas. I'm about ready to call in an
M14 mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: =ashBack] Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the
yellow sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of
the black canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27
mm nut and extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming
out. Clean the screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the
inside of the cap you removed for debris. Make very sure the small
rubber O-ring is on the top end of the screen when it comes out and when
it goes back in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to
my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then
click the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page.
By comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2
per plug when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost
almost as much as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the
world and I have kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: =ashBack] Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough
Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the
fine fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: [LashBack] Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough
[LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean
if necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go
regardless of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
The joke wasn't very funny. What will be funny is when it turns out to be the
ignition wires..
SA
[quote="shinden33(at)earthlink.ne"][quote] Can you "paint that Yak for $99.95."
as well???
Sorry Dennis - just a joke. I do appreciate all the advice.
Oh but wait a minute - does Savarese have a new call sign??
Dennis "Earl" Savarese
Dennis "Schieb" Savarese
I leave that open to discussion.
S
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77638#77638
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Venting |
Thanks again. Did that and found no obstructions.
dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co wrote:
> Scooter,
> Attach a piece of hose to the vent tube under the belly and make it long
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77647#77647
Message 9
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I would like to clean my fuel vent system on my CJ. What is the best
procedure?
Also, does anyone have M14P intake tubes they would part with. I am hoping
there is a derelict M14 sitting around with tubes( hopefully the bottom tubes
with drains) I can experiment with.
Thanks
Phil Salter
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Venting |
There is a possibility the one way check valve at the T connection below the
front seat might be the problem. Put about 8 oz of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil)
in both tanks per 15 gallons and do this religiously for the near future and
see if it changes the fuel feeding from the left tank. The left tank on
most Yak 52's feeds first, then the right tank starts feeding, according to
the fuel instrument. My personal airplane feeds down to about 45 liters
(sometimes 40 liters) on the left tank before the right one comes off of 60
liters. Been that way for 7 years now and the airplane fly's perfectly
straight with no yawing, hands off.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Venting
>
> Thanks again. Did that and found no obstructions.
>
>
> dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co wrote:
>> Scooter,
>> Attach a piece of hose to the vent tube under the belly and make it long
>> ---
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77647#77647
>
>
>
Message 11
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Phil, if I remember correctly, your lower 3 intake tubes have a small
plug in them. I've installed the Kimball intake drain kit on these type
of intake tubes many times. You just order the kit from Kimball without
the large SS intake plugs that go on the larger intake tube drains on an
M14. Use the #4 blue anodized fittings that come in the kit; remove the
plugs and drill and tap the tube with a 1/8 NPT thread tap. Then screw
the #4 fittings into them. If you press the drill bit and tap into a
toilet ring wax seal (about $2 at the hardware store) before you start
drilling and tapping, the wax will grab the metal shavings.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: PSalter@aol.com
To: Yak-List@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:54 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Vent
I would like to clean my fuel vent system on my CJ. What is the best
procedure?
Also, does anyone have M14P intake tubes they would part with. I am
hoping there is a derelict M14 sitting around with tubes( hopefully the
bottom tubes with drains) I can experiment with.
Thanks
Phil Salter
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack] |
Did you run a compression test on these three cylinders?
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: shinden33@earthlink.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Dennis,
We've done all tests/run-ups on both mags and each mag separately
with identical results. I did pull the cap on the left mag and checked
everything that you mentioned below and checked out good. It would have
to be spectacular luck (good or bad your choice of words) to have
identical ignition failures on both mags at the same time or to have the
time go out the same amount. Unless of course, there is some form of
crossover I am not aware of. Thanks for the advice though.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:47 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
You did not say you tried isolating the problem to one mag or the
other? Have you looked inside the magnetos under the mag caps and
checked for adequate lubrication on the cam? Also look for obvious
binding at the points. Verify the point gap is between .25 mm and .35
mm or .010 to .14. Ideally, .3 mm or .012. Look inside the mag cap for
carbon tracks. Gary's suggestion is also very sound and highly
recommended. Check the timing on both mags. Let me know what you did
or found.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: ggg6@att.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running[LashBack]
Have you checked the spark plug leads with a high tension lead
tester, it sounds like the leads may be breaking down under a load...
Gary
-------------- Original message from "Scott T Glaser (E-mail
2)" <shinden33@earthlink.net>: --------------
Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried everything short of
installing the plug kit. I'm not sure that's the issue.
The roughness seems to be getting worse & I did discover
using a laser thermometer and the WD40 test that the #5, 7 and 9
cylinders seem not to be firing. We measured the temps of the exhaust
stacks just after shut down and all were 220+ deg except those three
which were 112ish. We also did the WD40 test (sprayed WD40 on the
exhaust just aft of each cylinder). Again it showed that these 3
cylinders were not operating properly (WD40 did not vaporize). I have
pulled and checked all the plugs, checked the left mag (another
suspected problem), checked all the wires, checked the fine fuel filter,
checked the carb fuel filter, compression checked all the cylinders (all
69+/80) and have not found the problem. I've consulted with local
mechanics who seem to be out of ideas. I'm about ready to call in an
M14 mechani c.&nbs p; Let me know if anyone has any suggestions.
Scott
8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:36 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
The fine fuel filter is the black canister above the
yellow sphere on the right side of the firewall. On the bottom side of
the black canister is a 27 mm nut, usually safety wired. Remove the 27
mm nut and extract the fuel screen. It will be a little tight coming
out. Clean the screen with a tooth brush and be sure to inspect the
inside of the cap you removed for debris. Make very sure the small
rubber O-ring is on the top end of the screen when it comes out and when
it goes back in.
The American Champion REL37B's are not the plugs in the
conversion kit. If you'd like to read about the conversion kit, go to
my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on the MODIFICATIONS button, then
click the PLUG CONVERSION button. Or click on the link on the home page.
By comparison, the plugs in the conversion kit will cost you about $2
per plug when you have to replace them. ONE Champion REL37B will cost
almost as much as 18 plugs. The kits have been shipped all over the
world and I have kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Shinden33
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough Running
[LashBack]
To all ye salesman - already have the american plugs.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Working on the load testing of the system. Where is the
fine fuel filter?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MICHAEL ROEHR
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:08 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Shinden33 Rough [LashBack] Running
[LashBack]
Suggest you also check the fine fuel filter and clean
if necessary. The spark plug conversion is definitely the way to go
regardless of this problem.
Mike Roehr
beach@digitalexp.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. |
Well I found out what the problem was. The QS-1 valve was the culprit. It
was full of rust and corruption. I started the search by pressurizing the
system with nitrogen to replenish the system tank since it was to low for a
start. In doing so I could hear air escaping from somewhere in the belly. I
traced it to the QS-1. I replaced it with one I already had on the shelf.
Bingo problem solved. Test flight with some acro thrown in, showed all back to
"normal".
I can replace the rubber seal in the valve and the steel springs inside and
she'll be put on the parts shelf, well oiled and greased in a baggy.
Before this week-end I want to put her up on jacks. Retract the landing
gear, than turn off the main air valve. I'll than note the time and gage
pressure it takes before the gear starts to fall. Somewhere I remember reading
that the minimum pressure for gear operation was 25 atmospheres and minimum
pressure for brakes was 10 atmospheres. How quickly the pressure comes down will
depend on seal wear and condition but it'll give me some idea anyway.
It's kind-a nice going into the holidays knowing I don't have to change a
compressor (knock on wood). ;-)
Tomorrow I plan to take her on a short trip to New Smyrna to check on the
B-24. Maybe take a look at those parts you never get to see unless the
mechanics have the lady (Witchcraft) all apart working on her. Of course I'll
have
to take their beefs about how us pilots always break things.
God help me! I do love it so.
Jim (Pappy) Goolsby
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. |
In a message dated 11/28/2006 4:57:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
Somewhere I remember reading that the minimum pressure for gear operation
was 25 atmospheres and minimum pressure for brakes was 10 atmospheres. How
quickly the pressure comes down will depend on seal wear and condition but it'll
give me some idea anyway.
Pappy with my plane on the jacks I have retracted in to the locks and
extended the gear to
the down and locked position using shop air at 130 Psi or approx 9
atmospheres.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. |
Jim - for those of us without immediate access to the manual, what/where is
the "QS-1" valve?
Thanks, Dave
In a message dated 11/28/2006 4:57:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
Well I found out what the problem was. The QS-1 valve was the culprit. It
was full of rust and corruption. I started the search by pressurizing the
system with nitrogen to replenish the system tank since it was to low for a start.
In doing so I could hear air escaping from somewhere in the belly. I traced
it to the QS-1. I replaced it with one I already had on the shelf. Bingo
problem solved. Test flight with some acro thrown in, showed all back to
"normal".
I can replace the rubber seal in the valve and the steel springs inside and
she'll be put on the parts shelf, well oiled and greased in a baggy.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. |
I'am not sure wheather this schmatic of the air system will come thur on the site,
but will try to forward it. It shows what and where the QS-1 Valve is in the
Sys.... Gary
-------------- Original message from KingCJ6@aol.com: --------------
Jim - for those of us without immediate access to the manual, what/where is the
"QS-1" valve?
Thanks, Dave
In a message dated 11/28/2006 4:57:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, cjpilot710@aol.com
writes:
Well I found out what the problem was. The QS-1 valve was the culprit. It was
full of rust and corruption. I started the search by pressurizing the system
with nitrogen to replenish the system tank since it was to low for a start.
In doing so I could hear air escaping from somewhere in the belly. I traced it
to the QS-1. I replaced it with one I already had on the shelf. Bingo problem
solved. Test flight with some acro thrown in, showed all back to "normal".
I can replace the rubber seal in the valve and the steel springs inside and she'll
be put on the parts shelf, well oiled and greased in a baggy.
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV></DIV>I'am not sure wheather this schmatic of the air system will come thur
on the site, but will try to forward it. It shows what and where the QS-1 Valve
is in the Sys.... Gary<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message from KingCJ6@aol.com: --------------
<BR><BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2995" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV>
<DIV>Jim - for those of us without immediate access to the manual, what/where is
the "QS-1" valve?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/28/2006 4:57:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, cjpilot710@aol.com
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well I found out what the problem was. The QS-1
valve was the culprit. It was full of rust and corruption. I started
the search by pressurizing the system with nitrogen to replenish the system
tank since it was to low for a start. In doing so I could hear air
escaping from somewhere in the belly. I traced it to the QS-1. I replaced
it with one I already had on the shelf. Bingo problem solved.
Test flight with some acro thrown in, showed all back to "normal".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can replace the rubber seal in the valve and the
steel springs inside and she'll be put on the parts shelf, well oiled and greased
in a baggy.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Hmmmmmmmmm That ain't right. |
On the CJ6 the QS-1 is the brake pressure reducing valve... pull the
brake handle and the cable feeds down under the front cockpit and
pulls a lever attached to this valve... the air comes out of this and
goes to the QS-2 differential braking valve. The position of the
rudder pedals moves an arm on this valve which allows air to go to
the left, both, or right brakes. Center the Pedals: air equally to
both brakes. Full Left Pedal: air only to left brake, etc.
I had a similar leak to Pappy's last month, but it was my QS-2, not
my QS-1, that was going bad. My initial symptoms were loss of
pressure during taxi and run-up... but ONLY if I had a lot of left
pedal in... if I taxied/turned to the right I had no loss of
pressure! Well, maybe a small loss.... afterall....we do kind of
dance on the pedals on these birds, so any jab of left rudder would
leak some air out. At first I didn't notice it because by the time
you did a run-up the gauge would be back to 55 again...but after a
time, the problem got progressively worse until I DID notice it!
I isolated the problem by opening the main air valve prior to start
and pulling the brake handle and moving the rudder to full left
deflection... you could hear the air go into the brake circuit...but
unlike the right side, which would give a whoosh then the satisfying
little "squeal" followed by silence when the right brake/line was
full of air, the left side would go whoosh and it would keep gushing
air out of the valve as long as you had left rudder held in...if you
held it in long enough, all air from the main system would be
exhausted in this manner.
You'd hear it under your seat, because that is where the sucker lives!
If you centered the rudder amidship, or pushed right rudder, the
nasty hissing sound would go away.
I then opened up the access panel and with a helper, could feel the
air coming out of the QS-2's front side.
So I bought a new unit ( actually a QS-2B) from Doug, installed it
and all is well.
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ-6A "Betty"
Dallas
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone know who this is? |
Turns in the vertical are one dimensional and turns in the horizontal
involve two dimensional lift because you have to oppose gravity AND have a
horizontal "lift" component, so the manuvers are quite different. The
engineering term for cornering is P of S and it's a function of speed and g.
For each aircraft there is ONE speed that will produce the smallest radius
(with a given weight and density altitude), just like there is one speed
that will produce the best rate of climb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Anyone know who this is?
>
> Any over the top maneuver is dangerous when you miss your altitude and/ or
> airspeed at the top. Or if you forget to zero the altimeter, hence
> missing
> your altitude over the top. Turn radius is still turn radius in the
> vertical or the horizontal. Still requires energy to complete. Your lift
> vector depends on your energy state and that dictates your turn rate.
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ben Marsh <ben@designselect.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 11/27/2006 9:55:56 AM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Anyone know who this is?
>>
>>
>> All jokes aside, that was a chilling display. The lesson in this is
>> to have your energy headed away from Mother Earth. Reverse Cuban Eights
> are
>> one of the more dangerous maneuvers close to the ground. If you blow it,
>> you are dead, or extremely lucky.
>>
>> Take a look and Dennis and Brian Sander's routine in the Sea Fury.
>> Each maneuver is sequenced to built momentum and take them away from the
>> unforgiving. Incidentally, having gone through the routine with Brien in
> a
>> TMK 20, I can tell you it is awesome. And, the question becomes one of
> why.
>> Does the crowd really know the difference between and Cuban Eight and a
>> reverse? We do, but who's paying the airshow bill?
>>
>> Some say, I'd rather be lucky than good. However, if you've got
>> your choice, take'm both.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Fortin
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:13 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Anyone know who this is?
>>
>>
>> Here are some first hand facts from the pilot himself.
>>
>> He did loose his concentration for 1/2 a second. I believe his exacts
> words
>> were "I had a juvenile moment". He did recover the airplane without
> touching
>>
>> the planet. He completed his display and flew again the next day (without
>> the juvenile part...). He was spoken to by the Base commander and told
> NEVER
>>
>> to do this again. He was put in the penalty box by ICAS for his action
> and
>> decided to quit his ACE duties. He never lost his card and still flies
>> Warbirds with a unlimited card.
>>
>> Only to prove it can happen to any one, he has been flying airshow for
>> nearly 30 years and has over 35 000 hrs in his logbook (yes you read
> right,
>> 35 000hrs)
>>
>> D
>>
>> >From: Sarah Tobin <aerobaticgirl@yahoo.com>
>> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Anyone know who this is?
>> >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:03:19 -0800 (PST)
>> >
>> >Losin a waiver card is a whole lot better than the alternative.
>> >
>> >cjpilot710@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/23/2006 1:34:50
> P.M.
>>
>> >Eastern Standard Time, aerobaticgirl@yahoo.com writes:
>> >
>> > Yea wryly I do believe I heard he lost his low altitude waiver card.
>> >They found green grass stains on the prop tips (most likely found brown
>> >stains in his underwear too) and if it weren't for a depression between
> the
>>
>> >runways, he wouldn't have cleared the ground at all.
>> >
>> > Pappy
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2PvcG4Vmyw
>> >
>> > This guy was pancaking there are the end....had it been an Extra 300,
> it
>>
>> >wouldn't have climbed out of that.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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