Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: King KY97a for sale (david stroud)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? (Roger Kemp)
3. 07:03 AM - Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? (kp)
4. 03:27 PM - RPA FAST Cards (Shane Golden)
5. 03:33 PM - Re: RPA FAST Cards (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 07:31 PM - Re: RPA FAST Cards (David McGirt)
7. 07:36 PM - Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? (Jim Griffin)
8. 08:24 PM - Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: King KY97a for sale |
I'll likely buy it David. How old is it please? Thanks.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
and on the gear...
----- Original Message -----
From: "napeone" <napeone@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: Yak-List: King KY97a for sale
>
> King flipflop radio, 10 memory channels, mounting tray, 12 volts.
> Working fine when it came out of airplane and bench checks fine.
> $500 plus shipping
> David Harcourt
> 205-936-9502
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89410#89410
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? |
Rich was correct. Your were rebreathing your own air. Approximately 19% of the
exhaled air is O2. 40% is C02. The rest is nitrogen and inert gases. Without
having a fresh air source, you were entraining about 15-20% of your exhaled air.
If you had taken your blood gas during this exercise you would have seen a
minimal drop in your Pa02 (partial pressure of oxygen) and a increase in your
PaC02. Ovetime, you will increase your PaC02 from a normal of 40 to 58 to 60%
in an hour of doing this rebreathing. Yes the Air Force and Navy Aviators mask
have a flapper valve that pops open when you exhale increasing the ambient pressure
in the mask. The problem is some of that exhaled air is vented into the
fresh air line. Without a fresh gas source you will rebreath a precentage of
your concentrated exhaled air. The fresh air source dilutes that concentration.
The problem with accumulation of CO2 is that it eventually acts as a narcotic
along with cause some other bad physiological th
ings like dysrythemias, siezures, and generalized system hypoxia at high enough
concentration. We actually do closed circuit anesthesia to preserve the loss
of body heat, on long cases. We use soda lime (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide,
and an indicator, calcium and sodium silica in small amounts) or Baralyme
as a scrubber to absorb the C02 from the circuit. We supply fresh 02 to the
circuit though so that the O2 concentration does not drop to low. We follow
serial blood gases to monitor the Pa02 and PaC02 along with other things during
the surgery. While you are sucking on rubber, none of that monitoring is taking
place nor is it practical.
But to finish this episle, breathing your own exhaled air for a period of time
is not good for you. I personally would not recommend just using the aviators
mask and hose without a fresh air source. Particularly if you smoke, have smoked,
or have a respiratory disease like asthma or COPD. And yes, the FAA does let
people with respiratory diseases fly based on certain tests that I am not going
into now. but sucking rubber without a fresh air source is not good for you.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 1/21/2007 10:54:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/21/2007 11:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dsavarese@elmore.rr.com
writes:
A number of years, before I got my present helmet and mask. I had a standard USAF
helmet and oxygen mask - including hose. The hose was not connected to anything
and just hung free. Looked really cool at the airshows. I took a lot
of very unsavory ribbing from those who shall be unnamed. Rich Williams, NASA's
#2 doctor, was a little concerned for me because he theorized I would be re-breathing
my own air since the hose might not allow a total clean air exchange
because of its length. But I could fly with the canopy open and with the mike
in the mask, there was no air noise when I transmitted. Occasionally I would
take the free end of the hose and stick it in the airstream. The effect was
like pressure breathing! Air was literally shoved into my lungs! I could not
do it for very long. It was surprising how much air would come up that little
3/4 hose.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent in the UK. I
do not know of any pattern available.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Davis
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dennis,
Are the flap actuator tube covers available for the YAK 52 or does someone
have a picture or pattern?
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
On the original Yak 52's, many of them do not have the flap actuator covers installed.
These covers were originally riveted inside the rear cockpit covering
the flap rod openings through the fuselage. They had flexible, cloth covers
on the end of the metal cover which was clamped around the flap actuator rods.
You'll know if you have them or not without even looking because the cold air
can be felt down at your feet in the rear cockpit.
Possibly longer exhaust extensions, putting the exhaust stack further down into
the slip stream would help eliminate the smoke in the cockpit.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Walker
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Pappy,
Before putting too much effort into this, standard Yaks already have this identical
arrangement - an approx 1 1/4" tube between the front of the louvres, passing
through an adjustable heat muff, and exiting the outlets in the front and
rear cockpits. When I turn on the smoke, it still comes in and seems to be mostly
comming in the rear cockpit along with the exhaust fumes which are constantly
comming in. I hav'nt tried an exhaust vent, maybe you have one and your
system will work better.
Wild Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david@mcgirt.net
writes:
My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a alternator, I no longer need to
use the cooling air intake off the louvers. I plan is to take this clean high
pressure area air, and route it though some kind variable heater (yet to be
designed) around the exhaust stack than route it to the cockpit. I would never
be able to shut off the air but vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in
the cockpit. I believe that this will increase the pressure in the cockpit,
keeping the exhaust from being sucked in by the low pressure around the cockpit.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dave,
I don't think you are looking at it correctly. The air will pass easily down through
the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical
stab and add a scat tube adapter and your all set. You will of course have
to cover/cap off all the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.
Once done I would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.
Always Yakin,
Doug
David McGirt wrote:
Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough room
inside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran a
video cable through there, and THAT was a pain.. but on the fiberglass on
the front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
I had a similar idea, but was going to put a NACA duct near the top of
the tail to bring in fresh air. haven't done it yet.
DaBear
David McGirt wrote:
Good points, the other thought I had was to create a new fresh air
duct out on the wing , and route that into the cockpit to feed a mask
or at least the cabin area.. I have done several 6+ hour trips in my
bird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued than I should have
been.. so I would really like to find a better solution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Roger Kemp
*Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59 PM
*To:* yak-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* RE: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Yes I have thought of it. The problem is the scrubbers are activated
by heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2. There are a couple of
companies that make facemask for the woodlands fire fighters. Again
activated by hot air as I can deduce from their literature. It uses
your expired gases from respiration to activate the porous gel pelets.
The mask is a real attention getter! It would take doing PFT's on
someone using the mask to see what their work of breathing is
exercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers.
Whiffs is the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. They
will not even talk to me. Guess, I do not represent enough income for
them!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
*From:* David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.net>
*To: *yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
*Sent:* 1/19/2007 3:03:26 PM
*Subject:* Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Masks?
Ok,
I am sure I am not the only one to think about this, so I will ask
the group.
Has anyone thought about attaching a mask to an air scrubber to
clean the air we are breathing in the cockpits? Say using a O2
mask for our helmets, and finding something for the other end?
I know Pappy has done a lot of studies on the amount of CO2 and
Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I hope to borrow his monitor in
Waycross next week to monitor my A/C.
David
Date: 1/18/2007
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? |
So now ya'll know !=AC
Phew.....................
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Rich was correct. Your were rebreathing your own air. Approximately
19% of the exhaled air is O2. 40% is C02. The rest is nitrogen and
inert gases. Without having a fresh air source, you were entraining
about 15-20% of your exhaled air. If you had taken your blood gas during
this exercise you would have seen a minimal drop in your Pa02 (partial
pressure of oxygen) and a increase in your PaC02. Ovetime, you will
increase your PaC02 from a normal of 40 to 58 to 60% in an hour of doing
this rebreathing. Yes the Air Force and Navy Aviators mask have a
flapper valve that pops open when you exhale increasing the ambient
pressure in the mask. The problem is some of that exhaled air is vented
into the fresh air line. Without a fresh gas source you will rebreath a
precentage of your concentrated exhaled air. The fresh air source
dilutes that concentration. The problem with accumulation of CO2 is
that it eventually acts as a narco tic along with cause some other bad
physiological things like dysrythemias, siezures, and generalized system
hypoxia at high enough concentration. We actually do closed circuit
anesthesia to preserve the loss of body heat, on long cases. We use soda
lime (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and an indicator, calcium
and sodium silica in small amounts) or Baralyme as a scrubber to absorb
the C02 from the circuit. We supply fresh 02 to the circuit though so
that the O2 concentration does not drop to low. We follow serial blood
gases to monitor the Pa02 and PaC02 along with other things during the
surgery. While you are sucking on rubber, none of that monitoring is
taking place nor is it practical.
But to finish this episle, breathing your own exhaled air for a period
of time is not good for you. I personally would not recommend just using
the aviators mask and hose without a fresh air source. Particularly if
you smoke, have smoked, or have a respiratory disease like asthma or
COPD. And yes, the FAA does let people with respiratory diseases fly
based on certain tests that I am not going into now. but sucking rubber
without a fresh air source is not good for you.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 1/21/2007 10:54:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/21/2007 11:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com writes:
A number of years, before I got my present helmet and mask. I had a
standard USAF helmet and oxygen mask - including hose. The hose was not
connected to anything and just hung free. Looked really cool at the
airshows. I took a lot of very unsavory ribbing from those who shall be
unnamed. Rich Williams, NASA's #2 doctor, was a little concerned for me
because he theorized I would be re-breathing my own air since the hose
might not allow a total clean air exchange because of its length. But I
could fly with the canopy open and with the mike in the mask, there was
no air noise when I transmitted. Occasionally I would take the free end
of the hose and stick it in the airstream. The effect was like pressure
breathing! Air was literally shoved into my lungs! I could not do it
for very long. It was surprising how much air would come up that little
3/4 hose.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent
in the UK. I do not know of any pattern available.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Davis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dennis,
Are the flap actuator tube covers available for the YAK 52
or does someone have a picture or pattern?
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air -
Masks?
On the original Yak 52's, many of them do not have the flap
actuator covers installed. These covers were originally riveted inside
the rear cockpit covering the flap rod openings through the fuselage.
They had flexible, cloth covers on the end of the metal cover which was
clamped around the flap actuator rods. You'll know if you have them or
not without even looking because the cold air can be felt down at your
feet in the rear cockpit.
Possibly longer exhaust extensions, putting the exhaust stack
further down into the slip stream would help eliminate the smoke in the
cockpit.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Walker
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air -
Masks?
Pappy,
Before putting too much effort into this, standard Yaks
already have this identical arrangement - an approx 1 1/4" tube between
the front of the louvres, passing through an adjustable heat muff, and
exiting the outlets in the front and rear cockpits. When I turn on the
smoke, it still comes in and seems to be mostly comming in the rear
cockpit along with the exhaust fumes which are constantly comming in. I
hav'nt tried an exhaust vent, maybe you have one and your system will
work better.
Wild Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing
Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, david@mcgirt.net writes:
My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a
alternator, I no longer need to use the cooling air intake off the
louvers. I plan is to take this clean high pressure area air, and route
it though some kind variable heater (yet to be designed) around the
exhaust stack than route it to the cockpit. I would never be able to
shut off the air but vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in the
cockpit. I believe that this will increase the pressure in the cockpit,
keeping the exhaust from being sucked in by the low pressure around the
cockpit.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing
Clean Air - Masks?
Dave,
I don't think you are looking at it correctly. The air
will pass easily down through the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap
off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube adapter and your
all set. You will of course have to cover/cap off all the inspection
holes in the trailing edge of the vertical. Once done I would agree I
would agree that this location may be the best.
Always Yakin,
Doug
David McGirt wrote:
point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough
roominside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just
ran avideo cable through there, and THAT was a pain.. but on the
fiberglass onthe front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to
route from there.. -----Original Message-----From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com] On Behalf Of DaBearSent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:34 PMTo:
yak-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
<dabear@damned.org> I had a similar idea, but was going to put a NACA
duct near the top ofthe tail to bring in fresh air. haven't done it yet.
DaBear David McGirt wrote: Good points, the other thought I had was to
create a new fresh airduct out on the wing , and route that into the
cockpit to feed a maskor at least the cabin area.. I have done several
6+ hour trips in mybird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued
than I should havebeen.. so I would really like to find a better
solution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com] *On Behalf Of *Roger Kemp*Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59
PM*To:* yak-list@matronics.com*Subject:* RE: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks? Yes I have thought of it. The problem is
the scrubbers are activatedby heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2.
There are a couple ofcompanies that make facemask for the woodlands fire
fighters. Againactivated by hot air as I can deduce from their
literature. It usesyour expired gases from respiration to activate the
porous gel pelets.The mask is a real attention getter! It would take
doing PFT's onsomeone using the mask to see what their work of breathing
isexercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers. Whiffs is
the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. Theywill not even
talk to me. Guess, I do not represent e
nough income forthem! Doc ----- Original Message ----- *From:*
David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.ne
t> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
*Sent:* 1/19/2007 3:03:26 PM *Subject:* Yak-List: Breathi
ng Clean Air - =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Masks? Ok, I am sure I am not the only one to think about this,
so I will ask the group. Has anyone thought about attaching a
mask to an air scrubber to clean the air we are breathing in the
cockpits? Say using a O2 mask for our helmets, and finding something
for the other end? I know Pappy has done a lot of studies on the
amount of CO2 and Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I hope to borrow
his monitor in
Waycross next week to monitor my A/C. David
----------------------------------------------------------------Date:
1/18/2007
Message 4
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Y'all should be receiving your FAST cards any day if you haven't already.
Several folks have gotten cards and had questions about the ratings and
aircraft not being listed.
The decision was made not to list the wing, lead, or check pilot rating or
the aircraft type. All that is required are credentials for the FAA to
allow you to fly non-aerobatic formation in waivered airspace.
Shane
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RPA FAST Cards |
In a message dated 1/22/2007 6:29:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
scgsmg@bellsouth.net writes:
Got mine today! Very official looking.
Pappy
Y=99all should be receiving your FAST cards any day if you haven
=99t already.
Several folks have gotten cards and had questions about the ratings and
aircraft not being listed.
The decision was made not to list the wing, lead, or check pilot rating or
the aircraft type. All that is required are credentials for the FAA to all
ow
you to fly non-aerobatic formation in waivered airspace.
Shane
Message 6
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Same here.. look good
See you all in Waycross
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Golden
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:25 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RPA FAST Cards
Y'all should be receiving your FAST cards any day if you haven't already.
Several folks have gotten cards and had questions about the ratings and
aircraft not being listed.
The decision was made not to list the wing, lead, or check pilot rating or
the aircraft type. All that is required are credentials for the FAA to
allow you to fly non-aerobatic formation in waivered airspace.
Shane
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? |
Hey Roger
Do you think we could use the soda lime in the air desiccators on our
planes? It removes water too doesn't it?
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Rich was correct. Your were rebreathing your own air. Approximately
19% of the exhaled air is O2. 40% is C02. The rest is nitrogen and
inert gases. Without having a fresh air source, you were entraining
about 15-20% of your exhaled air. If you had taken your blood gas during
this exercise you would have seen a minimal drop in your Pa02 (partial
pressure of oxygen) and a increase in your PaC02. Ovetime, you will
increase your PaC02 from a normal of 40 to 58 to 60% in an hour of doing
this rebreathing. Yes the Air Force and Navy Aviators mask have a
flapper valve that pops open when you exhale increasing the ambient
pressure in the mask. The problem is some of that exhaled air is vented
into the fresh air line. Without a fresh gas source you will rebreath a
precentage of your concentrated exhaled air. The fresh air source
dilutes that concentration. The problem with accumulation of CO2 is
that it eventually acts as a narco tic along with cause some other bad
physiological things like dysrythemias, siezures, and generalized system
hypoxia at high enough concentration. We actually do closed circuit
anesthesia to preserve the loss of body heat, on long cases. We use soda
lime (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and an indicator, calcium
and sodium silica in small amounts) or Baralyme as a scrubber to absorb
the C02 from the circuit. We supply fresh 02 to the circuit though so
that the O2 concentration does not drop to low. We follow serial blood
gases to monitor the Pa02 and PaC02 along with other things during the
surgery. While you are sucking on rubber, none of that monitoring is
taking place nor is it practical.
But to finish this episle, breathing your own exhaled air for a period
of time is not good for you. I personally would not recommend just using
the aviators mask and hose without a fresh air source. Particularly if
you smoke, have smoked, or have a respiratory disease like asthma or
COPD. And yes, the FAA does let people with respiratory diseases fly
based on certain tests that I am not going into now. but sucking rubber
without a fresh air source is not good for you.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 1/21/2007 10:54:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/21/2007 11:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com writes:
A number of years, before I got my present helmet and mask. I had a
standard USAF helmet and oxygen mask - including hose. The hose was not
connected to anything and just hung free. Looked really cool at the
airshows. I took a lot of very unsavory ribbing from those who shall be
unnamed. Rich Williams, NASA's #2 doctor, was a little concerned for me
because he theorized I would be re-breathing my own air since the hose
might not allow a total clean air exchange because of its length. But I
could fly with the canopy open and with the mike in the mask, there was
no air noise when I transmitted. Occasionally I would take the free end
of the hose and stick it in the airstream. The effect was like pressure
breathing! Air was literally shoved into my lungs! I could not do it
for very long. It was surprising how much air would come up that little
3/4 hose.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent
in the UK. I do not know of any pattern available.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Davis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dennis,
Are the flap actuator tube covers available for the YAK 52
or does someone have a picture or pattern?
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air -
Masks?
On the original Yak 52's, many of them do not have the flap
actuator covers installed. These covers were originally riveted inside
the rear cockpit covering the flap rod openings through the fuselage.
They had flexible, cloth covers on the end of the metal cover which was
clamped around the flap actuator rods. You'll know if you have them or
not without even looking because the cold air can be felt down at your
feet in the rear cockpit.
Possibly longer exhaust extensions, putting the exhaust stack
further down into the slip stream would help eliminate the smoke in the
cockpit.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Walker
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air -
Masks?
Pappy,
Before putting too much effort into this, standard Yaks
already have this identical arrangement - an approx 1 1/4" tube between
the front of the louvres, passing through an adjustable heat muff, and
exiting the outlets in the front and rear cockpits. When I turn on the
smoke, it still comes in and seems to be mostly comming in the rear
cockpit along with the exhaust fumes which are constantly comming in. I
hav'nt tried an exhaust vent, maybe you have one and your system will
work better.
Wild Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing
Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, david@mcgirt.net writes:
My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a
alternator, I no longer need to use the cooling air intake off the
louvers. I plan is to take this clean high pressure area air, and route
it though some kind variable heater (yet to be designed) around the
exhaust stack than route it to the cockpit. I would never be able to
shut off the air but vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in the
cockpit. I believe that this will increase the pressure in the cockpit,
keeping the exhaust from being sucked in by the low pressure around the
cockpit.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing
Clean Air - Masks?
Dave,
I don't think you are looking at it correctly. The air
will pass easily down through the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap
off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube adapter and your
all set. You will of course have to cover/cap off all the inspection
holes in the trailing edge of the vertical. Once done I would agree I
would agree that this location may be the best.
Always Yakin,
Doug
David McGirt wrote:
point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough
roominside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just
ran avideo cable through there, and THAT was a pain.. but on the
fiberglass onthe front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to
route from there.. -----Original Message-----From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com] On Behalf Of DaBearSent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:34 PMTo:
yak-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
<dabear@damned.org> I had a similar idea, but was going to put a NACA
duct near the top ofthe tail to bring in fresh air. haven't done it yet.
DaBear David McGirt wrote: Good points, the other thought I had was to
create a new fresh airduct out on the wing , and route that into the
cockpit to feed a maskor at least the cabin area.. I have done several
6+ hour trips in mybird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued
than I should havebeen.. so I would really like to find a better
solution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronic
s.com] *On Behalf Of *Roger Kemp*Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59
PM*To:* yak-list@matronics.com*Subject:* RE: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks? Yes I have thought of it. The problem is
the scrubbers are activatedby heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2.
There are a couple ofcompanies that make facemask for the woodlands fire
fighters. Againactivated by hot air as I can deduce from their
literature. It usesyour expired gases from respiration to activate the
porous gel pelets.The mask is a real attention getter! It would take
doing PFT's onsomeone using the mask to see what their work of breathing
isexercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers. Whiffs is
the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. Theywill not even
talk to me. Guess, I do not represent e
nough income forthem! Doc ----- Original Message ----- *From:*
David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.ne
t> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
*Sent:* 1/19/2007 3:03:26 PM *Subject:* Yak-List: Breathi
ng Clean Air - =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Masks? Ok, I am sure I am not the only one to think about this,
so I will ask the group. Has anyone thought about attaching a
mask to an air scrubber to clean the air we are breathing in the
cockpits? Say using a O2 mask for our helmets, and finding something
for the other end? I know Pappy has done a lot of studies on the
amount of CO2 and Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I hope to borrow
his monitor in
Waycross next week to monitor my A/C. David
----------------------------------------------------------------Date:
1/18/2007
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks? |
The formulation we use actually releases some water. It does dry the airway out
though particularly the Baralyme. Soda Lime is not as bad. The final answer
is yes you could.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Griffin
Sent: 1/22/2007 9:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Hey Roger
Do you think we could use the soda lime in the air desiccators on our planes? It
removes water too doesn't it?
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Rich was correct. Your were rebreathing your own air. Approximately 19% of the
exhaled air is O2. 40% is C02. The rest is nitrogen and inert gases. Without
having a fresh air source, you were entraining about 15-20% of your exhaled air.
If you had taken your blood gas during this exercise you would have seen a
minimal drop in your Pa02 (partial pressure of oxygen) and a increase in your
PaC02. Ovetime, you will increase your PaC02 from a normal of 40 to 58 to 60%
in an hour of doing this rebreathing. Yes the Air Force and Navy Aviators mask
have a flapper valve that pops open when you exhale increasing the ambient pressure
in the mask. The problem is some of that exhaled air is vented into the
fresh air line. Without a fresh gas source you will rebreath a precentage of
your concentrated exhaled air. The fresh air source dilutes that concentration.
The problem with accumulation of CO2 is that it eventually acts as a narco
tic along with cause some other bad physiological t
hings like dysrythemias, siezures, and generalized system hypoxia at high enough
concentration. We actually do closed circuit anesthesia to preserve the loss
of body heat, on long cases. We use soda lime (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide,
and an indicator, calcium and sodium silica in small amounts) or Baralyme
as a scrubber to absorb the C02 from the circuit. We supply fresh 02 to
the circuit though so that the O2 concentration does not drop to low. We follow
serial blood gases to monitor the Pa02 and PaC02 along with other things during
the surgery. While you are sucking on rubber, none of that monitoring is taking
place nor is it practical.
But to finish this episle, breathing your own exhaled air for a period of time
is not good for you. I personally would not recommend just using the aviators
mask and hose without a fresh air source. Particularly if you smoke, have smoked,
or have a respiratory disease like asthma or COPD. And yes, the FAA does let
people with respiratory diseases fly based on certain tests that I am not going
into now. but sucking rubber without a fresh air source is not good for you.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 1/21/2007 10:54:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/21/2007 11:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dsavarese@elmore.rr.com
writes:
A number of years, before I got my present helmet and mask. I had a standard USAF
helmet and oxygen mask - including hose. The hose was not connected to anything
and just hung free. Looked really cool at the airshows. I took a lot
of very unsavory ribbing from those who shall be unnamed. Rich Williams, NASA's
#2 doctor, was a little concerned for me because he theorized I would be re-breathing
my own air since the hose might not allow a total clean air exchange
because of its length. But I could fly with the canopy open and with the mike
in the mask, there was no air noise when I transmitted. Occasionally I would
take the free end of the hose and stick it in the airstream. The effect was
like pressure breathing! Air was literally shoved into my lungs! I could not
do it for very long. It was surprising how much air would come up that little
3/4 hose.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent in the UK. I
do not know of any pattern available.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Davis
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dennis,
Are the flap actuator tube covers available for the YAK 52 or does someone
have a picture or pattern?
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
On the original Yak 52's, many of them do not have the flap actuator covers installed.
These covers were originally riveted inside the rear cockpit covering
the flap rod openings through the fuselage. They had flexible, cloth covers
on the end of the metal cover which was clamped around the flap actuator rods.
You'll know if you have them or not without even looking because the cold air
can be felt down at your feet in the rear cockpit.
Possibly longer exhaust extensions, putting the exhaust stack further down into
the slip stream would help eliminate the smoke in the cockpit.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Walker
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Pappy,
Before putting too much effort into this, standard Yaks already have this identical
arrangement - an approx 1 1/4" tube between the front of the louvres, passing
through an adjustable heat muff, and exiting the outlets in the front and
rear cockpits. When I turn on the smoke, it still comes in and seems to be mostly
comming in the rear cockpit along with the exhaust fumes which are constantly
comming in. I hav'nt tried an exhaust vent, maybe you have one and your
system will work better.
Wild Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david@mcgirt.net
writes:
My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a alternator, I no longer need to
use the cooling air intake off the louvers. I plan is to take this clean high
pressure area air, and route it though some kind variable heater (yet to be
designed) around the exhaust stack than route it to the cockpit. I would never
be able to shut off the air but vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in
the cockpit. I believe that this will increase the pressure in the cockpit,
keeping the exhaust from being sucked in by the low pressure around the cockpit.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack] =ashBack] Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Dave,
I don't think you are looking at it correctly. The air will pass easily down through
the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical
stab and add a scat tube adapter and your all set. You will of course have
to cover/cap off all the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.
Once done I would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.
Always Yakin,
Doug
David McGirt wrote:
Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough room
inside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran a
video cable through there, and THAT was a pain.. but on the fiberglass on
the front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
I had a similar idea, but was going to put a NACA duct near the top of
the tail to bring in fresh air. haven't done it yet.
DaBear
David McGirt wrote:
Good points, the other thought I had was to create a new fresh air
duct out on the wing , and route that into the cockpit to feed a mask
or at least the cabin area.. I have done several 6+ hour trips in my
bird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued than I should have
been.. so I would really like to find a better solution.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Roger Kemp
*Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59 PM
*To:* yak-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* RE: Yak-List: =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
Yes I have thought of it. The problem is the scrubbers are activated
by heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2. There are a couple of
companies that make facemask for the woodlands fire fighters. Again
activated by hot air as I can deduce from their literature. It uses
your expired gases from respiration to activate the
porous gel pelets.
The mask is a real attention getter! It would take doing PFT's on
someone using the mask to see what their work of breathing is
exercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers.
Whiffs is the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. They
will not even talk to me. Guess, I do not represent e
nough income for
them!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
*From:* David McGirt <mailto:david@mcgirt.ne
t>
*To: *yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
*Sent:* 1/19/2007 3:03:26 PM
*Subject:* Yak-List: Breathi
ng Clean Air - =ashBack]
=ashBack]
Masks?
Ok,
I am sure I am not the only one to think about this, so I will ask
the group.
Has anyone thought about attaching a
mask to an air scrubber to
clean the air we are breathing in the cockpits? Say using a O2
mask for our helmets, and finding something for the other end?
I know Pappy has done a lot of studies on the amount of CO2 and
Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I hope to borrow his monitor in
Waycross next week to monitor my A/C.
David
Date: 1/18/2007
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