Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:54 AM - Oxygen (Jill Gernetzke)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: ARS VI Registration now open! (Roger Kemp)
3. 07:33 AM - Re: Oxygen (Roger Kemp)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Oxygen (Mark Davis)
5. 12:43 PM - CGA standards....Compressed Gas Assoc....Re: Oxygen (Craig Schneider)
6. 01:45 PM - Re: Oxygen (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 03:30 PM - Re: Oxygen (Herb Coussons)
8. 05:06 PM - Footnote Re: CGA standards....Compressed Gas Assoc....Re: Oxygen (Ron Davis)
9. 08:15 PM - Re: Oxygen (Roger Kemp)
10. 08:22 PM - Re: Oxygen (Roger Kemp)
11. 08:30 PM - Re: Oxygen (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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Group,
We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
homebuiders and not Russian.)
He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
host of internal damage.
Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When I
asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green. I
urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
else. Disaster avoided.
A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
know conclusively.
Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster avoided.
As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen. To
me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
learning, preferably not the hard way!
I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system on
our website next week.
Jill
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ARS VI Registration now open! |
Ah another future Darwinian at play! One could only hope he strapped down
the rear seat before being ejected! Something can be learned from that
though. Notice how he managed to do about three flips before stablizing.
One could only wounder how disorienting that was. Probably really uncaged
his eyeballs. It is good to see that the bunt does get you pretty clear of
the tail and as the Russians say in their flight manuals, push up and stand
in the seat before exiting over the side in a tuck.
Always thought the roll on your back and push/fall out during a controlled
ejection (bail out) was a better choice when forced to exit this airplane
though. Hope I never have to ops check that theory. It is nice to see
someone has tested the waters though. Definately shoot him clear of the
tail. Now if we can see that done with the squadron seat pack, I'll feel
even more reasured. Reacon this Bubba is up for another fling?!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Scooter <yakk52@verizon.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/30/2007 3:02:40 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: ARS VI Registration now open!
>
>
> Unrelated but here's another short yak-52 youtube clip that you will get
a kick out of:
>
> http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=h_60TLO6Zpo
>
>
> mark(at)alternativesolar. wrote:
> > Hello Barry and fellow Red Star Pilots:
> > Here is a quick video clip to get everyones juices flowing!!!!!
> > --
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103960#103960
>
>
Message 3
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Gill,
Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and international
standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a GREEN
bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some Darwinian
from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer their way
around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a BLUE tank,
Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK tank when
sold commercially.
So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or blue tank
in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle is for
breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to have the line
boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
> Group,
>
> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
> homebuiders and not Russian.)
> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
> had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
> host of internal damage.
>
> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When I
> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green. I
> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
> else. Disaster avoided.
>
> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
>
> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
> know conclusively.
>
> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster avoided.
>
> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen. To
> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
> learning, preferably not the hard way!
>
>
> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system on
> our website next week.
>
> Jill
> M-14P, Incorporated
> 4905 Flightline Drive
> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
> (928)-681-4400
> Fax(928)681-4404
> www.m-14p.com
>
>
Message 4
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My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly labeled
"Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company. There may not be a
"standard" color for compressed air.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
> Gill,
> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and international
> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a GREEN
> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some Darwinian
> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer their way
> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a BLUE
> tank,
> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK tank when
> sold commercially.
> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or blue
> tank
> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle is for
> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to have the
> line
> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
>>
>>
>> Group,
>>
>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
>> host of internal damage.
>>
>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When I
>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green. I
>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
>> else. Disaster avoided.
>>
>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
>>
>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
>> know conclusively.
>>
>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster avoided.
>>
>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen. To
>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
>>
>>
>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system on
>> our website next week.
>>
>> Jill
>> M-14P, Incorporated
>> 4905 Flightline Drive
>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
>> (928)-681-4400
>> Fax(928)681-4404
>> www.m-14p.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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CGA Standards
PRODUCTION, STORAGE AND DELIVERY OF GASES
Gases and Symbols
Oxygen 02
Nitrogen N2
Helium He
Ethylene C2H4
Carbon Dioxide C02
Nitrous Oxide N20
Cyclopropane (CH2)3
Common Mixtures
Oxygen/Nitrogen 21%02: 79% N2
Oxygen/ Carbon Dioxide (no more than 10% CO2)
Helium/ Oxygen (Oxygen @ 21-60% with the remainder Helium) Referred to as "
Heliox"
Gas Hazards
Ethylene and Cyclopropane readily burn (flammable)
Gases Which Support Combustion
Oxygen
Helium/Oxygen
Oxygen/C02
Oxygen/ Nitrogen
Nitrous Oxide
Non-Flammable Gases
Nitrogen
Carbon Dioxide
Helium
Production
Fractional Distillation
Compress Air ( 100 Atm)
Cooled to liquid state
Rewarm to critical temp of each specific gas
Draw off each gas at critical temp.
Standards of Purity
Set by the FDA
Example: Oxygen must be >99% pure for medical use
(In comparison: industrial oxygen for welding much lower)
OXYGEN
Colorless
Odorless
Tasteless
Transparent
Density: 1.43 g/L @ 0oC and 1 atm
Boils @ -183o
Most abundant element in Earth crust
Compressed Air
Air contains all the gases of our natural atmosphere
Provided by tanks or through piping systems from compressors within the hos
pital
Carefully filtered and provided oil free
Used as oxygen dilutant or as propellant
Carbon Dioxide: CO2
Colorless
Odorless
1 1/2 x heavier than air
FDA purity standard 99.9%
Helium
Second lightest element ( low density)
Odorless
Tasteless
Inert
Used therapeutically as Heliox for airway obstruction ( Will pass through s
maller spaces than air or pure 02)
Nitrous Oxide: N2O
Colorless
Faintly sweet smell
Anesthetic agent
Must be blended properly with oxygen and usually combined with other anesth
etics
CYLINDERS
Cylinders
Commonly referred to as "tanks"
Provide a way to contain separate gases and transport them
Seamlessly constructed
Steel alloy - often chrome-molybdenum
Made by spinning or stamping in a single piece
Cylinders Con't
Special markings on "shoulders" to designate:
DOT specified materials
Example: 3AA: seamless, high strength, heat treated alloy
Service Pressure: 2015 psi
Serial # for that cylinder
Manufacturer's mark
Owner's Mark
Reverse side:
Hydrostatic testing date
Inspectors mark
Retest date(s) : star indicates 10 yr cycle
Cylinder Sizes
Medical cylinders are typically E
used for transport, 22 cu. ft gas, 4 1/2" in diameter and 30" tall.
there are 28.3 liters in each cubic ft.
Cylinder Sizes
H/K
contains 244 cu. ft.
9 in. diameter and 55 in. high
used for home care or running equipment
Identify Cylinder Gas By:
LABEL! Required by FDA
USP sets purity standards
Color code: set by Compressed Gas Association (CGA)
Cylinder Codes
Oxygen - green
CO2 - gray
Nitrous oxide - light blue
Cyclopropane - orange
Helium - brown
CO2/ O2 - gray/green
Helium/O2 - brown/green
Air - yellow or green/black
Ethylene - red
Cylinder Pressure Safety System
Full assumed 2200 psi ( E,H,K,M)
Safety valve E: fusible plug, melts @ 150-170oF
Safety valve H: frangible disk, ruptures @ 5% below max test pressure
Storage Guidelines
Stored according to NFPA
Secured, no movement, safety signs posted, no smoking signs
Dry, Cool, Well ventilated
Anesthetics stored separately away from oxygen
Cylinder Valve Safety System
Similar sized cylinders can contain dissimilar gases. To avoid misuse:
CGA developed special valve attachments
E and smaller:Pin Index Safety System
Larger than E: American Standard Safety System
Pin Index Safety System
Specific placement of TWO holes drilled into valve stem.
Placement defines which gas in cylinder
Paired #s for each
Example:
2-5 Oxygen, 1-5 Air, 3-5 N2O
American Standard System
Threaded connections which vary in thread number and thread angle
Connectors will not thread onto dissimilar gases.
REGULATORS
Two sections:
1) Reducing valve: allows 2200 psi to be reduced to a safe pressure of 50 p
si
2) A flow device
E or smaller, YOKE style
Larger than E, threaded regulators
Read pressure within tank off regulator pressure gauge
Pressure Gauge Readings
Open the valve of the tank and read the pressure on the gauge
Full should be 2200
Use conversion factor to find out how many liters of gas available
Conversion Factors
E factor: 0.28 L/psi
Example: 1000 psi x 0.28 = 280 Liters
H factor: 3.14 L/psi
Example: 1000 psi x 3.14 = 3140 Liters
The difference occurs because the tanks are very different in volume
Recall E is 22 ft3, H is 244 ft3
TANK DURATION FORMULA
minutes = pressure x factor
flowrate
EXAMPLE
minutes = 2200 psi x 0.28 L/psi
5 L/min
min. = 616 L = 123
5 L/min
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Message 6
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Yellow is the international standard for compressed air tanks or sometimes
called "breathing air". My local welding shop's compressed air tanks have
always been yellow.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
> My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly labeled
> "Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company. There may not be a
> "standard" color for compressed air.
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
>>
>> Gill,
>> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and international
>> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a GREEN
>> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some Darwinian
>> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer their
>> way
>> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a BLUE
>> tank,
>> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK tank when
>> sold commercially.
>> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or blue
>> tank
>> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle is for
>> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to have the
>> line
>> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
>> Doc
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
>>>
>>>
>>> Group,
>>>
>>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
>>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
>>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
>>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
>>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
>>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
>>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
>>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
>>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
>>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
>>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
>>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
>>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
>>> host of internal damage.
>>>
>>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
>>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
>>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When I
>>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
>>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
>>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green. I
>>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
>>> else. Disaster avoided.
>>>
>>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
>>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
>>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
>>>
>>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
>>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
>>> know conclusively.
>>>
>>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
>>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
>>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
>>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
>>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
>>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster avoided.
>>>
>>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen. To
>>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
>>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
>>>
>>>
>>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system on
>>> our website next week.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>> M-14P, Incorporated
>>> 4905 Flightline Drive
>>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
>>> (928)-681-4400
>>> Fax(928)681-4404
>>> www.m-14p.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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and nitrogen is black,
yes oxygen is green and nitrous is blue -
The other doc just mixed up compressed air and nitrogen
compressed air can be in any color (scuba tank) but when obtained
from a gas supplier it is yellow.
Herb (the other doc)
On Mar 31, 2007, at 3:44 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Yellow is the international standard for compressed air tanks or
> sometimes called "breathing air". My local welding shop's
> compressed air tanks have always been yellow.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
>>
>> My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly
>> labeled "Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company.
>> There may not be a "standard" color for compressed air.
>>
>> Mark Davis
>> N44YK
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
>>
>>
>>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> Gill,
>>> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and
>>> international
>>> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a
>>> GREEN
>>> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some
>>> Darwinian
>>> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer
>>> their way
>>> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a
>>> BLUE tank,
>>> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK
>>> tank when
>>> sold commercially.
>>> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or
>>> blue tank
>>> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle
>>> is for
>>> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to
>>> have the line
>>> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
>>> Doc
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
>>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
>>>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Group,
>>>>
>>>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-
>>>> off
>>>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
>>>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
>>>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
>>>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop
>>>> the
>>>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air.
>>>> Yes, they
>>>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit
>>>> reluctant
>>>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell
>>>> him it
>>>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a
>>>> bang. He
>>>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had
>>>> happened at
>>>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered
>>>> that
>>>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
>>>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body
>>>> plus a
>>>> host of internal damage.
>>>>
>>>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed
>>>> at an
>>>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
>>>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures.
>>>> When I
>>>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went
>>>> further
>>>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used.
>>>> No, it
>>>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was.
>>>> Green. I
>>>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did
>>>> anything
>>>> else. Disaster avoided.
>>>>
>>>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was
>>>> ferrying
>>>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
>>>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
>>>>
>>>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
>>>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would
>>>> like to
>>>> know conclusively.
>>>>
>>>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there
>>>> was a
>>>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
>>>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic,
>>>> all big
>>>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
>>>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
>>>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster
>>>> avoided.
>>>>
>>>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not
>>>> happen. To
>>>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
>>>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air
>>>> system on
>>>> our website next week.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>> M-14P, Incorporated
>>>> 4905 Flightline Drive
>>>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
>>>> (928)-681-4400
>>>> Fax(928)681-4404
>>>> www.m-14p.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | ootnote RE: CGA standards....Compressed Gas Assoc....RE: Yak-List: |
Oxygen
SCUBA cylinders, which many people use for filling Eastern block air
systems, come in all colors.
>From: Craig Schneider <craig@ustek.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: CGA standards....Compressed Gas Assoc....RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:43:12 -0400
>
> CGA Standards
>PRODUCTION, STORAGE AND DELIVERY OF GASES
>Gases and Symbols
>Oxygen 02
>Nitrogen N2
>Helium He
>Ethylene C2H4
>Carbon Dioxide C02
>Nitrous Oxide N20
>Cyclopropane (CH2)3
>
>Common Mixtures
>Oxygen/Nitrogen 21%02: 79% N2
>Oxygen/ Carbon Dioxide (no more than 10% CO2)
>Helium/ Oxygen (Oxygen @ 21-60% with the remainder Helium) Referred to as
>"Heliox"
>
>Gas Hazards
>Ethylene and Cyclopropane readily burn (flammable)
>
>Gases Which Support Combustion
>Oxygen
>Helium/Oxygen
>Oxygen/C02
>Oxygen/ Nitrogen
>Nitrous Oxide
>
>Non-Flammable Gases
>Nitrogen
>Carbon Dioxide
>Helium
>
>Production
>Fractional Distillation
>Compress Air ( 100 Atm)
>Cooled to liquid state
>Rewarm to critical temp of each specific gas
>Draw off each gas at critical temp.
>
>Standards of Purity
>Set by the FDA
>Example: Oxygen must be >99% pure for medical use
>(In comparison: industrial oxygen for welding much lower)
>
>OXYGEN
>Colorless
>Odorless
>Tasteless
>Transparent
>Density: 1.43 g/L @ 0oC and 1 atm
>Boils @ -183o
>Most abundant element in Earth crust
>
>Compressed Air
>Air contains all the gases of our natural atmosphere
>Provided by tanks or through piping systems from compressors within the
>hospital
>Carefully filtered and provided oil free
>Used as oxygen dilutant or as propellant
>
>Carbon Dioxide: CO2
>Colorless
>Odorless
>1 1/2 x heavier than air
>FDA purity standard 99.9%
>
>Helium
>Second lightest element ( low density)
>Odorless
>Tasteless
>Inert
>Used therapeutically as Heliox for airway obstruction ( Will pass through
>smaller spaces than air or pure 02)
>
>Nitrous Oxide: N2O
>Colorless
>Faintly sweet smell
>Anesthetic agent
>Must be blended properly with oxygen and usually combined with other
>anesthetics
>
>CYLINDERS
>Cylinders
>Commonly referred to as "tanks"
>Provide a way to contain separate gases and transport them
>Seamlessly constructed
>Steel alloy - often chrome-molybdenum
>Made by spinning or stamping in a single piece
>
>Cylinders Con't
>Special markings on "shoulders" to designate:
>
>DOT specified materials
>Example: 3AA: seamless, high strength, heat treated alloy
>
>Service Pressure: 2015 psi Serial # for that cylinder
>Manufacturer's mark
>Owner's Mark
>Reverse side: Hydrostatic testing date
>Inspectors mark
>Retest date(s) : star indicates 10 yr cycle
>
>
>Cylinder Sizes
>Medical cylinders are typically E used for transport, 22 cu. ft gas, 4 1/2"
>in diameter and 30" tall.
>there are 28.3 liters in each cubic ft.
>
>
>Cylinder Sizes
>H/K
>contains 244 cu. ft. 9 in. diameter and 55 in. high used for home care or
>running equipment
>
>
>Identify Cylinder Gas By:
>LABEL! Required by FDA
>USP sets purity standards
>Color code: set by Compressed Gas Association (CGA)
>
>Cylinder Codes
>Oxygen - green
>CO2 - gray
>Nitrous oxide - light blue
>Cyclopropane - orange
>Helium - brown
>CO2/ O2 - gray/green
>Helium/O2 - brown/green
>Air - yellow or green/black
>Ethylene - red
>
>Cylinder Pressure Safety System
>Full assumed 2200 psi ( E,H,K,M)
>Safety valve E: fusible plug, melts @ 150-170oF
>Safety valve H: frangible disk, ruptures @ 5% below max test pressure
>
>Storage Guidelines
>Stored according to NFPA
>Secured, no movement, safety signs posted, no smoking signs
>Dry, Cool, Well ventilated
>Anesthetics stored separately away from oxygen
>
>Cylinder Valve Safety System
>Similar sized cylinders can contain dissimilar gases. To avoid misuse:
>CGA developed special valve attachments
>E and smaller:Pin Index Safety System
>Larger than E: American Standard Safety System
>
>Pin Index Safety System
>Specific placement of TWO holes drilled into valve stem. Placement defines
>which gas in cylinder Paired #s for each Example: 2-5 Oxygen, 1-5 Air, 3-5
>N2O
>
>
>American Standard System
>Threaded connections which vary in thread number and thread angle
>Connectors will not thread onto dissimilar gases.
>
>
>REGULATORS
>Two sections:
>1) Reducing valve: allows 2200 psi to be reduced to a safe pressure of 50
>psi
>2) A flow device
>E or smaller, YOKE style
>Larger than E, threaded regulators
>Read pressure within tank off regulator pressure gauge
>
>Pressure Gauge Readings
>Open the valve of the tank and read the pressure on the gauge
>Full should be 2200
>Use conversion factor to find out how many liters of gas available
>
>Conversion Factors
>E factor: 0.28 L/psi
>Example: 1000 psi x 0.28 = 280 Liters
>H factor: 3.14 L/psi
>Example: 1000 psi x 3.14 = 3140 Liters
>The difference occurs because the tanks are very different in volume
>Recall E is 22 ft3, H is 244 ft3
>
>TANK DURATION FORMULA
>minutes = pressure x factor
>flowrate
>
>EXAMPLE
>minutes = 2200 psi x 0.28 L/psi
>5 L/min
>
>min. = 616 L = 123
>5 L/min
><< Unit4_1.gif >>
><< Unit4_2.gif >>
><< Unit4_3.gif >>
><< Unit4_4.gif >>
><< Unit4_5.gif >>
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get
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Message 9
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Correct, I crossed it up. Sorry.
Doc Kemp
> [Original Message]
> From: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/31/2007 5:35:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
> and nitrogen is black,
> yes oxygen is green and nitrous is blue -
>
> The other doc just mixed up compressed air and nitrogen
>
> compressed air can be in any color (scuba tank) but when obtained
> from a gas supplier it is yellow.
>
> Herb (the other doc)
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2007, at 3:44 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > Yellow is the international standard for compressed air tanks or
> > sometimes called "breathing air". My local welding shop's
> > compressed air tanks have always been yellow.
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >
> >
> >>
> >> My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly
> >> labeled "Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company.
> >> There may not be a "standard" color for compressed air.
> >>
> >> Mark Davis
> >> N44YK
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kemp"
> >> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
> >> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >>
> >>
> >>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >>>
> >>> Gill,
> >>> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and
> >>> international
> >>> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a
> >>> GREEN
> >>> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some
> >>> Darwinian
> >>> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer
> >>> their way
> >>> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a
> >>> BLUE tank,
> >>> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK
> >>> tank when
> >>> sold commercially.
> >>> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or
> >>> blue tank
> >>> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle
> >>> is for
> >>> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to
> >>> have the line
> >>> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
> >>> Doc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> [Original Message]
> >>>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
> >>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >>>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
> >>>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Group,
> >>>>
> >>>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-
> >>>> off
> >>>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
> >>>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
> >>>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
> >>>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop
> >>>> the
> >>>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air.
> >>>> Yes, they
> >>>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit
> >>>> reluctant
> >>>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell
> >>>> him it
> >>>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a
> >>>> bang. He
> >>>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had
> >>>> happened at
> >>>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered
> >>>> that
> >>>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
> >>>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body
> >>>> plus a
> >>>> host of internal damage.
> >>>>
> >>>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed
> >>>> at an
> >>>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
> >>>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures.
> >>>> When I
> >>>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went
> >>>> further
> >>>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used.
> >>>> No, it
> >>>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was.
> >>>> Green. I
> >>>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did
> >>>> anything
> >>>> else. Disaster avoided.
> >>>>
> >>>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was
> >>>> ferrying
> >>>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
> >>>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
> >>>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would
> >>>> like to
> >>>> know conclusively.
> >>>>
> >>>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there
> >>>> was a
> >>>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
> >>>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic,
> >>>> all big
> >>>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
> >>>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
> >>>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster
> >>>> avoided.
> >>>>
> >>>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not
> >>>> happen. To
> >>>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
> >>>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air
> >>>> system on
> >>>> our website next week.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jill
> >>>> M-14P, Incorporated
> >>>> 4905 Flightline Drive
> >>>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
> >>>> (928)-681-4400
> >>>> Fax(928)681-4404
> >>>> www.m-14p.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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|
Black and yellow also (black overall tank with a yellow band around the
top).
Sorry, I forgot about the yellow band around the top when I wrote black.
doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/31/2007 3:55:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Yellow is the international standard for compressed air tanks or
sometimes
> called "breathing air". My local welding shop's compressed air tanks
have
> always been yellow.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
> >
> > My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly
labeled
> > "Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company. There may not be
a
> > "standard" color for compressed air.
> >
> > Mark Davis
> > N44YK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Gill,
> >> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and international
> >> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a GREEN
> >> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some Darwinian
> >> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer their
> >> way
> >> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a BLUE
> >> tank,
> >> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK tank
when
> >> sold commercially.
> >> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or blue
> >> tank
> >> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle is for
> >> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to have the
> >> line
> >> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
> >> Doc
> >>
> >>
> >>> [Original Message]
> >>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
> >>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
> >>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Group,
> >>>
> >>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
> >>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
> >>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
> >>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
> >>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
> >>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
> >>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
> >>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
> >>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
> >>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
> >>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
> >>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
> >>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
> >>> host of internal damage.
> >>>
> >>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
> >>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
> >>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When
I
> >>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
> >>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
> >>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green.
I
> >>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
> >>> else. Disaster avoided.
> >>>
> >>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
> >>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
> >>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
> >>>
> >>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
> >>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
> >>> know conclusively.
> >>>
> >>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
> >>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
> >>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
> >>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
> >>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
> >>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster
avoided.
> >>>
> >>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen.
To
> >>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
> >>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system
on
> >>> our website next week.
> >>>
> >>> Jill
> >>> M-14P, Incorporated
> >>> 4905 Flightline Drive
> >>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
> >>> (928)-681-4400
> >>> Fax(928)681-4404
> >>> www.m-14p.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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|
One should never reply to anything after two Margaritas and Japanese
supper. Disreguard Yellow and Black. It should read green and black for
compressed air. That is what we get in our OR to drive our drills for Ortho
guys. Me, I prefer a Bard Parker but I do not have to cut or drill bones
either. Our H tanks of compressed air come in Black and Green.
Make it the 3 sorry...I'm done.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/31/2007 3:55:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Yellow is the international standard for compressed air tanks or
sometimes
> called "breathing air". My local welding shop's compressed air tanks
have
> always been yellow.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oxygen
>
>
> >
> > My local Co-op leases me compressed air in a yellow bottle clearly
labeled
> > "Compressed Air" which is serviced by Airgas Company. There may not be
a
> > "standard" color for compressed air.
> >
> > Mark Davis
> > N44YK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:32 AM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Gill,
> >> Answer: NO! Oxygen is always in a GREEN bottle (by US and international
> >> standards). Commercially sold compressed air should never be in a GREEN
> >> bottle. The yokes for the tanks are different to prevent some Darwinian
> >> from crossing them up. Not to say that they do not afro engineer their
> >> way
> >> around that safety system because they do. Nitrous Oxide is in a BLUE
> >> tank,
> >> Nitrogen is in a YELLOW tank, and Compressed air is in a BLACK tank
when
> >> sold commercially.
> >> So if you see some boozo coming toward your plane with a green or blue
> >> tank
> >> in his hand tell him thanks but no thanks. O2 in a GREEN bottle is for
> >> breathing not smoking! Tell the FBO operator that he needs to have the
> >> line
> >> boy with the blue tank in his hand drug tested.
> >> Doc
> >>
> >>
> >>> [Original Message]
> >>> From: Jill Gernetzke <jill@m-14p.com>
> >>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >>> Date: 3/31/2007 9:00:41 AM
> >>> Subject: Yak-List: Oxygen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Group,
> >>>
> >>> We just had a Moose customer who was putting his 40 hours of fly-off
> >>> time on the airplane. The pressure relief valve took a dump and
> >>> relieved all of the air. (This is a unit supplied by Kimballs to
> >>> homebuiders and not Russian.)
> >>> He landed at a small strip. Rather than attempting to hand prop the
> >>> airplane, he asked if they had a bottle of compressed air. Yes, they
> >>> did! Out they come with a green bottle. Again, he is a bit reluctant
> >>> and asks if they are sure it is not oxygen. Again, they tell him it
> >>> is compressed air. He started the airplane and there was a bang. He
> >>> had the airplane started and may not have known what had happened at
> >>> that point. After returning to his home base it was discovered that
> >>> the starter hose blew apart, the filter blew through and the air
> >>> distributor stripped three of its studs out of the mating body plus a
> >>> host of internal damage.
> >>>
> >>> Last month, I received a call from a ferry pilot. He had landed at an
> >>> airport and couldn't get the airplane started. The local FBO had
> >>> serviced the air system. He called to verify start procedures. When
I
> >>> asked him what they had used, he said compressed air. I went further
> >>> and asked if he was sure it wasn't oxygen that they had used. No, it
> >>> was compressed air. I then asked what color the bottle was. Green.
I
> >>> urged him to purge the air system of the oxygen before he did anything
> >>> else. Disaster avoided.
> >>>
> >>> A Pitts Model 12 guy wasn't so lucky last summer when he was ferrying
> >>> his airplane and landed in Phoenix. He had similar results as the
> >>> Moose guy, but had to fix the airplane in 112 degree heat.
> >>>
> >>> My question to the group is, will oxygen ever be in any other color
> >>> bottle, except green? I really don't think so, but I would like to
> >>> know conclusively.
> >>>
> >>> Years ago, when I worked at Kay Larkin in Palatka, Florida there was a
> >>> line guy with little aviation experience who fueled a DC-3 with jet
> >>> fuel because it was a big airplane and according to his logic, all big
> >>> airplanes used jet fuel. This DC-3 was going to take a load of
> >>> skydivers up. The pilot noticed the jet fuel smell and queried the
> >>> line guy. The fuel was immediately drained. Another disaster
avoided.
> >>>
> >>> As PIC, we are responsible to make sure these things do not happen.
To
> >>> me, the worst thing is to not know what we don't know. I am always
> >>> learning, preferably not the hard way!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I will post a short article with photos on oxygen and the air system
on
> >>> our website next week.
> >>>
> >>> Jill
> >>> M-14P, Incorporated
> >>> 4905 Flightline Drive
> >>> Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
> >>> (928)-681-4400
> >>> Fax(928)681-4404
> >>> www.m-14p.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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