Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:51 AM - Smoking Airplanes...a follow-up (Jeff Linebaugh)
2. 08:59 AM - Warbird Fly in 5-12-07 at KMRT Union County Airport Marysville Ohio (Craig Schneider)
3. 09:16 AM - Brake cable housing (Tom Johnson)
4. 12:24 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 02:20 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Roger Kemp)
6. 04:51 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Yak Pilot)
7. 06:32 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Smoking Airplanes...a follow-up |
Guys,
A few months ago, I posted concerning troubles I had with a Smoking
Airplanes smoke system in my new red star mount. I had a split in a
plastic fitting resulting in a large leak of smoke oil in the guts of my
brand new airplane. At the time, I didnt get much satisfaction from the
owner on a remedy to the plastic parts in the kit.
Well, I must report that I received a call from John last week. To his
credit, he offered to replace all fittings with AN fittings upgrading the
kit to what I would consider aircraft grade! It took a while, but he
followed up. I wouldnt feel right about not reporting this to the group
I am once again a happy smoker
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Original Message:
Doc and all,
I know some people dont care for smoke (Dennis!), but I cant live without
it. I cant tell you how many times it has come in essential to either avoid
other aircraft, or have someone find me to effect a rejoin.
I had a great smoke system in the CJ that Val is now care takingthe best
around. I just put a smoke system in my new airplane and I would not,
repeat NOT, recommend it to anyone. It was a smokingairplanes.com system.
It was touted as easy to install (it was) and convenient since it is a
complete kit (it is.) Having said that, IMHO, I found that the system
components were not aviation gradelots of cheap plastic parts. I was very
reluctant to tighten down the fittings much for fear they would crackand
that is exactly what they did after my first flight I had a quart of smoke
oil in the belly of the new airplane due to a cracked plastic fitting. (and
yes it was leak tested on the ground prior to the first flight). This system
has easily cost me twice the purchase price already. When I told the owner
that we were going to have to re-plumb the whole system, he apologized, and
then cautioned me not to over-tighten any fitting going to the smoke
pumpyou guessed it, another plastic fitting (Also, in a service bulletin,
he stated that there have been two in-flight fires as a result of broken
welds in the smoke injector fittings in his smoke systems. The remedy?
Safety wire them to the exhaust?!) I know that there are Yak owners with
his systemsI hope you have better luck than I did. Please be careful, and
frequently inspect the system, fittings and smoke injectors.
Given that smoke oil WILL burn, and fires are generally bad, dont go cheap
on your smoke system.
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh(at)earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Warbird Fly in 5-12-07 at KMRT Union County Airport Marysville |
Ohio
Yak Pilots, CJ Pilots, RedStar Pilots and to all other Pilots:
Mark your calendar, Saturday MAY 12th 2007 will be the 1st Warbird Fly
In at the Union County Airport in Marysville, Ohio (KMRT). 27/9 4218' x
75' paved http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMRT
http://www.primeaeroinc.com/
EVENT sponsored by EAA Chapter 9 http://www.eaa9.org/
Pancake breakfest at 9am followed by FAA Wings Seminars by Aviation
Attorney Jerry Eichenberber " Co-Ownership of Aircraft" and Aviation
Medical Examiner Dr. Robert Lewis "Getting High at Altitude"
All aircraft are invited to Fly In and enjoy the breakfest, listen to
the speakers and of course admire the Warbirds. There will be plenty
of local pilots and kids attending that would love to see your "Warbird"
Notes:
1.) If you're a FAST IP and can attend, please let me know, classroom
space is available for formation training.
2.) A fuel discount will be available for all Warbirds flying in, amount
is unknown at this time.
3.) Pray for decent weather.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Brake cable housing |
The bicycle brake cable housing works for both Yaks and Nanchangs.
There are 2 types of bicycle cable housing, use the one for brakes, not
the
one for derailer (or d=E9railleur.. if you believe the French...)
Anyways, the bicycle BRAKE housing is Teflon lined and fits perfectly in
the
stock Yak / CJ adjustment ends.
The combination of new cable and the Teflon lined housing makes for very
nice braking.
Go one step further and rebuild your Reducing valve and Differential
valve.
Doug Sapp has the special little seal for the inside (called a QS1 and
QS2
on a Nanchang).
Part is the same for Yak and Nanchang.
Tj
P.S.:
1) For those concerned about using bicycle parts on an airplane, see
the
following link: http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/wright/
2) If the government of your country will not allow you to improve your
airplane: Sorry.
---------------------------
Thomas Johnson
Airpower Insurance, LLC
36 West Ocotillo Road
Phoenix, AZ 85013-1235
Toll Free: 866-475-9199
Tel: 602-628-2701
Fax: 623-321-5843
www.airpowerinsurance.com <http://www.airpowerinsurance.com/>
E: tomjohnson@cox.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even
Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC?
Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
Smash
Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
Y'all--
I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
50 bar (735PSI)".
P.S.
For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
the benefit of inquiring minds.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
http://www.FlyWBA.com <http://www.flywba.com/>
Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
shrapnel.
Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
"compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
time.
Dennis
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
> --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
>
> Just got the following e mail from a friend.
>
>
>> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
>> perhaps not.
>>
>> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
>> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
>>
>> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
>> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
>> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
>> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
started.
>>
>> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
>>
>> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
>> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
engine.
>>
>> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
>> adapter that the air distributor sits on.
>>
>> Moral of this story, if you need an air fill, be sure that it is air,
>> or nitrogen, not oxygen.
>>
>
>
> Are the O2 transfill adapters compatible with the fill connector on
> the
________________________________
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail> and
always stay connected
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail> to
friends.
Message 5
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of
that pimplely assed lineboy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com <http://www.flywba.com/>
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> >>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
> >> adapter that the air distributor sits on.
> >>
> >> Moral of this story, if you need an air fill, be sure that it is air,
>
> >> or nitrogen, not oxygen.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Are the O2 transfill adapters compatible with the fill connector on
> > the
> ________________________________
>
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail> and
> always stay connected
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail> to
> friends.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
Hi Doc.
I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a "good ole boy".
The color on the high pressure bottles around here are the color that happened
to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the trigger that released the mist.
There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air instead of
nitrogen. A yellow and green that is filled with CO2. An argon tank that who
knows WHAT is inside of it.
So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled that bottle last,
you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.
mgb
p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air that you bring
in as long as it has a valid test stamp. They could care less what color
it is... after all, diving tanks come in any color that you want, starting with
blue. The only people I have seen get really serious about tank color are
people that work in the local hospital, but hey.. they are not good ole boys.
p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas in it's face
and see what happens! Worked for the coal miners! :-)
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of
that pimplely assed lineboy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> To:
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
MALS-14 64E"
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V"
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> >>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
> >> adapter that the air distributor sits on.
> >>
> >> Moral of this story, if you need an air fill, be sure that it is air,
>
> >> or nitrogen, not oxygen.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Are the O2 transfill adapters compatible with the fill connector on
> > the
> ________________________________
>
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
> and
> always stay connected
> to
> friends.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
MGB,
On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive tanks and used it
for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I took it to the dive shop to have it
filled. I made the schrader valve conversion on my YAK. I bought a first stage
manifold from my dive shop, high pressure hose, a 5000 psi pressure gauge,
and an air fitting so I could refill my tank if it leaked down for some reason.
I also bought a pony tank that fits nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold
for when I go on road trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts
at a start with the amount of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is painted
yellow by the way. That is the way that I know for sure what is going into my
plane provided I trust my dive shop operator. Now that could be another ball
of wax too I guess.
We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more comfortable taking my
own spare air on the road with me than asking a good ol' boy if they have any
spare air around I can use to fill my tanks to start my plane.
I sure as heck am not going to do the flammable gas test with a lighter. Now
I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove with the gas from that questionable
tank and light it off with that lighter or a flaming stick from a distance.
There will be a nice bang when the balloon goes up just have to dodge the
melted plastic fragments. We could also check with the local chemistry lab to
see who has a mass spectrometer. They could burn the gas in a controlled combustion
and analyze the gas for us. We would know for sure then what was in the
tank.
I believe this tread started with the question of what color is an oxygen tank.
Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town happens in Bubba town. With all
the lawyers standing behind the bushes just waiting for a personal injury lawsuit
if I were a FBO operator in the business of servicing aircraft on my ramp,
I would think twice about being a good ol boy an just put air in what ever
I could find that would hold it. Just mort one aircraft owner from filling his
airplane's air tank with 02 and see how fast the $1 million liability policy
will be eaten up if he even has liability coverage.
So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call after all it's your
rosey pink that is risk here.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
Sent: 4/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Hi Doc.
I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a "good ole boy".
The color on the high pressure bottles around here are the color that happened
to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the trigger that released the mist.
There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air instead of nitrogen.
A yellow and green that is filled with CO2. An argon tank that who
knows WHAT is inside of it.
So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled that bottle last,
you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.
mgb
p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air that you bring
in as long as it has a valid test stamp. They could care less what color it
is... after all, diving tanks come in any color that you want, starting with
blue. The only people I have seen get really serious about tank color are people
that work in the local hospital, but hey.. they are not good ole boys.
p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas in it's face and
see what happens! Worked for the coal miners! :-)
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of
that pimplely assed lineboy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> To:
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
MALS-14 64E"
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V"
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> >>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
> >> adapter that the air
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