Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: filling air tanksfilling air tanks (Mark Jefferies YAK UK)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: filling air tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:46 AM - Re: filling air tanks (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:51 AM - Re: filling air tanks (Roger Baker)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: filling air tanks (Mark Davis)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: filling air tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 07:42 AM - Re: filling air tanks (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 07:47 AM - Re: filling air tanks-testing for O2 (John A. Nielsen)
9. 08:32 AM - Yak 52 Pressure relief valve???? RFS (Zjopa)
10. 09:05 AM - Re: filling air tanks (Herb Coussons)
11. 10:44 AM - Re: filling air tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 12:41 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 12:50 PM - Re: Yak 52 Pressure relief valve???? RFS (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 01:01 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Doug Sapp)
15. 01:09 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 07:08 PM - Re: filling air tanks (Sarah Tobin)
17. 08:29 PM - Re: filling air tanks (cjpilot710@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanksfilling air tanks |
The fuselage decal is a very good idea and one that the RPA could commission
and sell from the site. Just like the rescue etc decals.
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop your
airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into the
main air tank.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
MGB,
On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive tanks and
used it for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I took it to the dive
shop to have it filled. I made the schrader valve conversion on my YAK.
I bought a first stage manifold from my dive shop, high pressure hose, a
5000 psi pressure gauge, and an air fitting so I could refill my tank
if it leaked down for some reason. I also bought a pony tank that fits
nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold for when I go on road
trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts at a start with the amount
of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is painted yellow by the way.
That is the way that I know for sure what is going into my plane
provided I trust my dive shop operator. Now that could be another ball
of wax too I guess.
We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more comfortable
taking my own spare air on the road with me than asking a good ol' boy
if they have any spare air around I can use to fill my tanks to start my
plane.
I sure as heck am not going to do the flammable gas test with a
lighter. Now I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove with the
gas from that questionable tank and light it off with that lighter or a
flaming stick from a distance. There will be a nice bang when the
balloon goes up just have to dodge the melted plastic fragments. We
could also check with the local chemistry lab to see who has a mass
spectrometer. They could burn the gas in a controlled combustion and
analyze the gas for us. We would know for sure then what was in the
tank.
I believe this tread started with the question of what color is an
oxygen tank. Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town happens in
Bubba town. With all the lawyers standing behind the bushes just waiting
for a personal injury lawsuit if I were a FBO operator in the business
of servicing aircraft on my ramp, I would think twice about being a good
ol boy an just put air in what ever I could find that would hold it.
Just mort one aircraft owner from filling his airplane's air tank with
02 and see how fast the $1 million liability policy will be eaten up if
he even has liability coverage.
So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call after all
it's your rosey pink that is risk here.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 4/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
[LashBack]
Hi Doc.
I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a "good
ole boy". The color on the high pressure bottles around here are the
color that happened to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the
trigger that released the mist.
There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air
instead of nitrogen. A yellow and green that is filled with CO2. An
argon tank that who knows WHAT is inside of it.
So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled that
bottle last, you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.
mgb
p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air
that you bring in as long as it has a valid test stamp. They could care
less what color it is... after all, diving tanks come in any color that
you want, starting with blue. The only people I have seen get really
serious about tank color are people that work in the local hospital, but
hey.. they are not good ole boys.
p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas in
it's face and see what happens! Worked for the coal miners! :-)
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle
is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking
for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle,
say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or
had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane
or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your
airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the
mercy of
that pimplely assed line boy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn
your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> To:
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E"
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any
way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked
to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may
be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well.
BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or
ev[LashBack] en
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some
day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later.
In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for
pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR
SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is
connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is
actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who
is PIC[LashBack] ?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to
bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it
worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this
might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with
your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts
about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel
(like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the
Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51
had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an
oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight,
nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be
careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air
supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum
pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade,
King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at
ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally
ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else.
If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it
because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar
with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some
point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V"
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14[LashBack] PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already
know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have
in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen
in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not
aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired
violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home.
The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> > ;>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream
that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting
on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off
the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out
of the
> >> adapter that the air
e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Forgot one thing. One could also buy a 02 analyzer. The last unit I priced from
Drager was $1500 or you could buy their 5 gas analyzer for around $5000. That
way you'll know if that unknow gas is C02, 02, C0, He, Ar, or N20. There are
a whole sprectrum of analyzer wafers one could place in this portable system.
It even comes with it's own carrying case, charger, and computer hookup soft/hardware.
Guess you could go to your friendly anesthesiologist and ask him to stick his 02
analyzer into your bag of unknown gas. If it reads 98-100% then you probably
have pure 02. If you don't then you have something else. Either way I'm not putting
it in my air tank without knowing what it is.
As for hand propping, without the aircraft chocked,tied securely down, and the
brakes locked if I am doing this by myself I am not even going to think about
it. Without someone sitting in the cockpit that has a reasonable clue as to what
to do agian I am not even considering it. Others may, but not me. I can get
air from a dive shop if my pony tank leaked down because I have my stage one
regulator with me on the road. We can always ask our friend over at Tallassee
that hand propped his 50 when it was out of air. Not a happy camper after it taxied
through his hanger and a couple of other aircraft too! So much for chocks!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 4/5/2007 7:00:10 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop your airplane.
Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into the main air tank.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
MGB,
On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive tanks and used it
for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I took it to the dive shop to have it
filled. I made the schrader valve conversion on my YAK. I bought a first stage
manifold from my dive shop, high pressure hose, a 5000 psi pressure gauge,
and an air fitting so I could refill my tank if it leaked down for some reason.
I also bought a pony tank that fits nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold
for when I go on road trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts
at a start with the amount of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is painted
yellow by the way. That is the way that I know for sure what is going into my
plane provided I trust my dive shop operator. Now that could be another ball
of wax too I guess.
We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more comfortable taking my
own spare air on the road with me than asking a good ol' boy if they have any
spare air around I can use to fill my tanks to start my plane.
I sure as heck am not going to do the flammable gas test with a lighter. Now
I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove with the gas from that questionable
tank and light it off with that lighter or a flaming stick from a distance.
There will be a nice bang when the balloon goes up just have to dodge the
melted plastic fragments. We could also check with the local chemistry lab to
see who has a mass spectrometer. They could burn the gas in a controlled combustion
and analyze the gas for us. We would know for sure then what was in the
tank.
I believe this tread started with the question of what color is an oxygen tank.
Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town happens in Bubba town. With all
the lawyers standing behind the bushes just waiting for a personal injury lawsuit
if I were a FBO operator in the business of servicing aircraft on my ramp,
I would think twice about being a good ol boy an just put air in what ever
I could find that would hold it. Just mort one aircraft owner from filling his
airplane's air tank with 02 and see how fast the $1 million liability policy
will be eaten up if he even has liability coverage.
So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call after all it's your
rosey pink that is risk here.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
Sent: 4/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
[LashBack]
Hi Doc.
I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a "good ole boy".
The color on the high pressure bottles around here are the color that happened
to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the trigger that released the mist.
There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air instead of nitrogen.
A yellow and green that is filled with CO2. An argon tank that who
knows WHAT is inside of it.
So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled that bottle last,
you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.
mgb
p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air that you bring
in as long as it has a valid test stamp. They could care less what color it
is... after all, diving tanks come in any color that you want, starting with
blue. The only people I have seen get really serious about tank color are people
that work in the local hospital, but hey.. they are not good ole boys.
p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas in it's face and
see what happens! Worked for the coal miners! :-)
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of
that pimplely assed line boy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> To:
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
MALS-14 64E"
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or ev[LashBack] en
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC[LashBack]
?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V"
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14[LashBack] PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> > ;>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
> >> adapter that the air
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P is, if done
properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
Roger__________________________________________________________________
On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop
> your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes
> into the main air tank.
> Dennis
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Don't forget about a strut pump with appropriate adaptors. Takes a long
time to pump it up and an air compressor which makes at least 130 psi,
but you know what you're getting out of the end of the hose.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop your
airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into the
main air tank.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
MGB,
On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive tanks
and used it for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I took it to the
dive shop to have it filled. I made the schrader valve conversion on my
YAK. I bought a first stage manifold from my dive shop, high pressure
hose, a 5000 psi pressure gauge, and an air fitting so I could refill
my tank if it leaked down for some reason. I also bought a pony tank
that fits nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold for when I
go on road trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts at a start with
the amount of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is painted yellow by
the way. That is the way that I know for sure what is going into my
plane provided I trust my dive shop operator. Now that could be another
ball of wax too I guess.
We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more
comfortable taking my own spare air on the road with me than asking a
good ol' boy if they have any spare air around I can use to fill my
tanks to start my plane.
I sure as heck am not going to do the flammable gas test with a
lighter. Now I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove with the
gas from that questionable tank and light it off with that lighter or a
flaming stick from a distance. There will be a nice bang when the
balloon goes up just have to dodge the melted plastic fragments. We
could also check with the local chemistry lab to see who has a mass
spectrometer. They could burn the gas in a controlled combustion and
analyze the gas for us. We would know for sure then what was in the
tank.
I believe this tread started with the question of what color is an
oxygen tank. Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town happens in
Bubba town. With all the lawyers standing behind the bushes just waiting
for a personal injury lawsuit if I were a FBO operator in the business
of servicing aircraft on my ramp, I would think twice about being a good
ol boy an just put air in what ever I could find that would hold it.
Just mort one aircraft owner from filling his airplane's air tank with
02 and see how fast the $1 million liability policy will be eaten up if
he even has liability coverage.
So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call after
all it's your rosey pink that is risk here.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: 4/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
[LashBack]
Hi Doc.
I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a
"good ole boy". The color on the high pressure bottles around here are
the color that happened to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the
trigger that released the mist.
There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air
instead of nitrogen. A yellow and green that is filled with CO2. An
argon tank that who knows WHAT is inside of it.
So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled
that bottle last, you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.
mgb
p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air
that you bring in as long as it has a valid test stamp. They could care
less what color it is... after all, diving tanks come in any color that
you want, starting with blue. The only people I have seen get really
serious about tank color are people that work in the local hospital, but
hey.. they are not good ole boys.
p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas
in it's face and see what happens! Worked for the coal miners! :-)
Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Guys,
There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green
bottle is pure
O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it
is
compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking
for a
Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green
bottle, say "that
is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has
or had 02
in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane
or me if I
put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your
airplane is
to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the
mercy of
that pimplely assed line boy or that crusty ol FBO manager!
Learn your
airplanes and know what is being done to them.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> To:
> Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E"
>
> Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in
any way be
> serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly
marked to
> prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one
may be
> missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well.
BUT.....Do you
> know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or
ev[LashBack] en
> Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some
day, but
> for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later.
In other
> words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for
pure oxygen
> being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR
SURE (I
> repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is
connected to
> your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be
100%
> absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that
is actually
> filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sarah Tobin
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who
is PIC[LashBack] ?
> Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had
to bum air
> at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it
worked
> fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this
might be
> just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do
with your
> ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous
posts about
> dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
> Smash
>
> Jerry Painter wrote:
>
> Y'all--
>
> I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel
(like
> onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at
the Reno
> races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty)
P-51 had a
> very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an
oxygen tank.
> Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
> Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight,
nobody hurt.
>
> We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be
careful out
> there, especially if you let somebody else service your air
supply.
> Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed
air
> only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum
pressure
> 50 bar (735PSI)".
>
> P.S.
> For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind
3-blade, King,
> Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold
here
> new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at
ARS for
> the benefit of inquiring minds.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
> Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> This same situation happened a few years back and literally
ejected the
> pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything
else. If
> someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it
because of the
> shrapnel.
>
> Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar
with the
> airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
> conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
> "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some
point in
> time.
>
> Dennis
>
> "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "N395V"
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
>
>
> > --> M14[LashBack] PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
> >
> > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> >
> >
> >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already
know,
> >> perhaps not.
> >>
> >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you
have in the
> >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> >>
> >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
> >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen
in. This
> >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not
aware of
> >> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired
violently, but
> started.
> >>
> >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew
home. The next
>
> >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> > ;>
> >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream
that it
> >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting
on a hard
>
> >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off
the
> engine.
> >>
> >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out
of the
> >> adapter that the air
e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of particular
importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in
your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it. A
full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air start
system occur.
Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that have the electric
start on them. :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Baker
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P is, if done properly,
among the easiest of engines to prop.
Roger__________________________________________________________________
On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop
your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into
the main air tank.
Dennis
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
In a message dated 4/5/2007 10:18:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com writes:
A small flat blade screw driver, inserted in one of the small rectangular
holes on the Chinese start valves, will work the same way. However knowing how
to hand prop these engine is a very handy thing in a real pinch. The strut
pump is a very good idea and is usually around most maintenance shops.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of particular importance
should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in your particular
airplane does not have the manual release tab it. A full tank of air will do
you no good should any failure of the air start system occur.
Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that have the electric
start on them. :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: _Roger Baker_ (mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net)
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P is, if done properly, among
the easiest of engines to prop.
Roger__________________________________________________________________
On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop your
airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into the main air
tank.
Dennis
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks-testing for O2 |
You are making too much of the testing for O2. In 9th grade Physics, we
still have the students explore the reactions of oxygen by introducing a
glowing ember from a wood strip to the gas. O2 causes the glowing ember
to ignite into flames. For you smokers, simply place your cancer stick
in front of the hose end, crack the valve open just a smidge, and see if
your ash begins to glow white hot. If so, you are asperating it with
oxygen. There will be no explosion.
John Nielsen
Roger Kemp wrote:
> Forgot one thing. One could also buy a 02 analyzer. The last unit I
> priced from Drager was $1500 or you could buy their 5 gas analyzer for
> around $5000. That way you'll know if that unknow gas is C02, 02, C0,
> He, Ar, or N20. There are a whole sprectrum of analyzer wafers one could
> place in this portable system. It even comes with it's own carrying
> case, charger, and computer hookup soft/hardware.
> Guess you could go to your friendly anesthesiologist and ask him to
> stick his 02 analyzer into your bag of unknown gas. If it reads 98-100%
> then you probably have pure 02. If you don't then you have something
> else. Either way I'm not putting it in my air tank without knowing what
> it is.
> As for hand propping, without the aircraft chocked,tied securely down,
> and the brakes locked if I am doing this by myself I am not even going
> to think about it. Without someone sitting in the cockpit that has a
> reasonable clue as to what to do agian I am not even considering it.
> Others may, but not me. I can get air from a dive shop if my pony tank
> leaked down because I have my stage one regulator with me on the road.
> We can always ask our friend over at Tallassee that hand propped his 50
> when it was out of air. Not a happy camper after it taxied through his
> hanger and a couple of other aircraft too! So much for chocks!
> Doc
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: 4/5/2007 7:00:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop
> your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes
> into the main air tank.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 8:31 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> MGB,
> On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive
> tanks and used it for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I
> took it to the dive shop to have it filled. I made the schrader
> valve conversion on my YAK. I bought a first stage manifold
> from my dive shop, high pressure hose, a 5000 psi pressure
> gauge, and an air fitting so I could refill my tank if it
> leaked down for some reason. I also bought a pony tank that fits
> nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold for when I go
> on road trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts at a start
> with the amount of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is
> painted yellow by the way. That is the way that I know for sure
> what is going into my plane provided I trust my dive shop
> operator. Now that could be another ball of wax too I guess.
> We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more
> comfortable taking my own spare air on the road with me than
> asking a good ol' boy if they have any spare air around I can
> use to fill my tanks to start my plane.
> I sure as heck am not going to do the flammable gas test with a
> lighter. Now I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove
> with the gas from that questionable tank and light it off with
> that lighter or a flaming stick from a distance. There will be a
> nice bang when the balloon goes up just have to dodge the melted
> plastic fragments. We could also check with the local chemistry
> lab to see who has a mass spectrometer. They could burn the gas
> in a controlled combustion and analyze the gas for us. We would
> know for sure then what was in the tank.
> I believe this tread started with the question of what color is
> an oxygen tank. Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town
> happens in Bubba town. With all the lawyers standing behind the
> bushes just waiting for a personal injury lawsuit if I were a
> FBO operator in the business of servicing aircraft on my ramp, I
> would think twice about being a good ol boy an just put air in
> what ever I could find that would hold it. Just mort one
> aircraft owner from filling his airplane's air tank with 02 and
> see how fast the $1 million liability policy will be eaten up if
> he even has liability coverage.
> So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call
> after all it's your rosey pink that is risk here.
> Doc
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Yak Pilot <mailto:yakplt@yahoo.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: 4/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
> [LashBack]
>
> Hi Doc.
>
> I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as
> a "good ole boy". The color on the high pressure bottles
> around here are the color that happened to be in the spray
> gun when the guy pulled the trigger that released the mist.
>
> There is a grey and black tank that is filled with
> compressed air instead of nitrogen. A yellow and green that
> is filled with CO2. An argon tank that who knows WHAT is
> inside of it.
>
> So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who
> filled that bottle last, you are STILL at the mercy of the
> folks at the FBO.
>
> mgb
>
>
> p.s. The local dive shop will fill any bottle with
> compressed air that you bring in as long as it has a valid
> test stamp. They could care less what color it is... after
> all, diving tanks come in any color that you want, starting
> with blue. The only people I have seen get really serious
> about tank color are people that work in the local hospital,
> but hey.. they are not good ole boys.
>
> p.p.s. We could always put a canary in a box and spray some
> gas in it's face and see what happens! Worked for the coal
> miners! :-)
>
> Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Guys,
> There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the
> green bottle is pure
> O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle!
> You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02.
> If it is
> compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!
> I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not
> looking for a
> Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid.
> Now a more common sense way would be to look at the
> green bottle, say "that
> is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the
> it has or had 02
> in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my
> airplane or me if I
> put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes
> in your airplane is
> to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are
> at the mercy of
> that pimplely assed line boy or that crusty ol FBO
> manager! Learn your
> airplanes and know what is being done to them.
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E
>
> > To:
> > Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: filling air tanks
> >
> CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E"
> >
> > Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that
> could in any way be
> > serviced by line personnel should be labeled and
> clearly marked to
> > prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one
> where one may be
> > missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK
> >
> > P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as
> well. BUT.....Do you
> > know for sure which ones are legal for you to
> actually do, or e v[LashBack] en
> > Supervise? That list would make an interesting
> question some day, but
> > for me... I just do it and worry about the
> consequences later. In other
> > words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly.
> As for pure oxygen
> > being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to
> know FOR SURE (I
> > repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle
> that is connected to
> > your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way
> to be 100%
> > absolutely positive is for you to have filled the
> tank, that is actually
> > filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
> >
> > My question for everyone is ... why do you need a
> placard ? Who is PIC[LashBack] ?
> > Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I
> have had to bum air
> > at airports I got the maintainers to donate their
> nitro and it worked
> > fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I
> think this might be
> > just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what
> you do with your
> > ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the
> previous posts about
> > dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and
> self-critiquing!
> > Smash
> >
> > Jerry Painter wrote:
> >
> > Y'all--
> >
> > I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized
> vessel (like
> > onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall
> that at the Reno
> > races last year a very expensive (and formerly very
> pretty) P-51 had a
> > very large hole blown in it because somebody
> overfilled an oxygen tank.
> > Didn't happen right away either--took a while after
> the fill.
> > Fortunate ly (?), it happened on the ground, not in
> flight, nobody hurt.
> >
> > We gotta worry about both the contents and the
> pressure. Be careful out
> > there, especially if you let somebody else service
> your air supply.
> > Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous
> label--"compressed air
> > only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add
> "maximum pressure
> > 50 bar (735PSI)".
> >
> > P.S.
> > For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW,
> Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
> > Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and
> sold here
> > new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
> > website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to
> have her at ARS for
> > the benefit of inquiring minds.
> >
> > Jerry Painter
> > Wild Blue Aviation
> > 425-876-0865
> > JP@FlyWBA.com
> > http://www.FlyWBA.com
> >
> >
> > Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
> > From: "A. De nnis Savarese"
> > Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
> >
> >
> > This same situation happened a few years back and
> literally ejected the
> > pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and
> everything else. If
> > someone was in the back seat, they would not have
> made it because of the
> > shrapnel.
> >
> > Although there is no clear way to prevent someone
> unfamiliar with the
> > airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2,
> putting a
> > conspicuous label at/around the external air fill
> port saying
> > "compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help
> at some point in
> > time.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "N395V"
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
> > Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
> >
> >
> > > --> M14[LashBack] PEngines-List message posted by:
> "N395V"
> > >
> > > Just got the following e mail from a friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you
> already know,
> > >> perhaps not.
> > >>
> > >> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same
> engine you have in the
> > >> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
> > >>
> > >> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded
> engine.
> > >> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone
> put oxygen in. This
> > >> happened at another airport, not his home, and he
> was not aware of
> > >> the problem.When he started the engine, it
> backfired violently, but
> > started.
> > >>
> > >> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he
> flew home. The next
> >
> > >> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
> > > ;>
> > >> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so
> extream that it
> > >> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as
> another fitting on a hard
> >
> > >> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor
> apx 3" off the
> > engine.
> > >>
> > >> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the
> studs out of the
> > >> adapter that the air
>
>
>
>
>
>
> e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> <>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Pressure relief valve???? RFS |
Hi there...
Does anyone have spares of this part of the pressure relief valve on the front
firewall???
My seal was mangled.
Thanks
Ron
(Hope the attach works..)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105140#105140
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_105.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This happened to
me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand prop. I
had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared to
the yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too
bad. BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE
PROP. GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!-
when the m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your
helper has only hand propped cubbies.
Herb
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of particular
> importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve
> in your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab
> it. A full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of
> the air start system occur.
>
> Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that have the
> electric start on them. :-)
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Baker
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P is, if done
> properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
>
> Roger_________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop
>> your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes
>> into the main air tank.
>> Dennis
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://
> forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
You are right on the money Herb. ALWAYS hand prop from behind the prop.
Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for sure. With no air,
tying the airplane down is and absolute must.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb Coussons
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This happened to
me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand prop. I had
a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared to the yak -
but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too bad. BE SURE
YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE PROP. GOOD
COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when the m-14
fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has only hand
propped cubbies.
Herb
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of particular
importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in
your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it. A
full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air start
system occur.
Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that have the
electric start on them. :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Baker
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P is, if done
properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
Roger__________________________________________________________________
On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
There is one other alternative. Learn how to properly hand prop
your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into
the main air tank.
Dennis
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.com - The Yak-List Email Forum -
class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List - NEW MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
Brings up another point.
Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a
tab on it for manual operation. If you replace this valve, the newer
model valve lacks this tab. So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE. The lower
case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement
valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.
My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never
know what part inside of it might become essential someday.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 13:43
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
You are right on the money Herb. ALWAYS hand prop from behind the prop.
Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for sure. With no air,
tying the airplane down is and absolute must.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This
happened to me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand
prop. I had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared
to the yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too
bad. BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE
PROP. GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when
the m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has
only hand propped cubbies.
Herb
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of
particular importance should the air start valve fail and the air start
valve in your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab
it. A full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the
air start system occur.
Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that
have the electric start on them. :-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Baker <mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P
is, if done properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
Roger__________________________________________________________________
On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
wrote:
There is one other alternative. Learn
how to properly hand prop your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only
compressed air goes into the main air tank.
Dennis
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.com
- The Yak-List Email Forum -
class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List> - NEW
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Yak 52 Pressure relief valve???? RFS |
Except for the "W" models of Yaks (52TW for example) and some of the
very late model Sukes, the guts that are INSIDE of the pressure relief
valves in CJ's, YAK's and Sukes are all the same.
You can purchase a CJ pressure relief valve from Doug Sapp ... And all
the parts INSIDE of the valve, along with the part that screws on and
regulates the pressure will work.
The OTHER method is to purchase this little kit, that allows you to GLUE
a new piece of rubber on the top of your old brass slider valve seal end
and get it to work THAT way.
Personally, I went with the valve from Doug.
The BEST solution .... Which is WAY WAY pricey... Is to purchase an
American made pressure relief valve and replace the Russian one...
Price.... $750. But... It lasts pretty much forever.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zjopa
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:32
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Pressure relief valve???? RFS
Hi there...
Does anyone have spares of this part of the pressure relief valve on the
front firewall???
My seal was mangled.
Thanks
Ron
(Hope the attach works..)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
Mark,
I can only speak to the Chinese start valves but they seem to be fond of
removing the tab but oddly enough they seem to do it upon installation.
I say this because 100% of the new valves received from China have the
tabs in place.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
>Brings up another point.
>
>Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a
>tab on it for manual operation. If you replace this valve, the newer
>model valve lacks this tab. So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE. The lower
>case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement
>valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.
>
>My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never
>know what part inside of it might become essential someday.
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>N50YK
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
>Savarese
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 13:43
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
>You are right on the money Herb. ALWAYS hand prop from behind the prop.
>Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for sure. With no air,
>tying the airplane down is and absolute must.
>Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This
>happened to me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand
>prop. I had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared
>to the yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too
>bad. BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE
>PROP. GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when
>the m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has
>only hand propped cubbies.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of
>particular importance should the air start valve fail and the air start
>valve in your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab
>it. A full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the
>air start system occur.
>
> Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that
>have the electric start on them. :-)
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Baker <mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
><mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P
>is, if done properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
>
>
>Roger__________________________________________________________________
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>wrote:
>
>
>
> There is one other alternative. Learn
>how to properly hand prop your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only
>compressed air goes into the main air tank.
> Dennis
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
>com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
>atronics.com
>
> - The Yak-List Email Forum -
>class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List> - NEW
>MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
>http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
>com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
I'd be curious to know whether the CJ start valve is identical to the
Russian one.
I need to send you a few digital images.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 16:01
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Mark,
I can only speak to the Chinese start valves but they seem to be fond of
removing the tab but oddly enough they seem to do it upon installation.
I say this because 100% of the new valves received from China have the
tabs in place.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
>--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>Brings up another point.
>
>Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a
>tab on it for manual operation. If you replace this valve, the newer
>model valve lacks this tab. So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE. The lower
>case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement
>valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.
>
>My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never
>know what part inside of it might become essential someday.
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>N50YK
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
>Savarese
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 13:43
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
>You are right on the money Herb. ALWAYS hand prop from behind the
prop.
>Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for sure. With no air,
>tying the airplane down is and absolute must.
>Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This
happened to
>me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand prop. I
>had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared to the
>yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too bad.
>BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE PROP.
>GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when the
>m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has only
>hand propped cubbies.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of
particular
>importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in
>your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it. A
>full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air
>start system occur.
>
> Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that
have the
>electric start on them. :-)
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Baker <mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
><mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P
is, if done
>properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
>
>
>Roger__________________________________________________________________
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>wrote:
>
>
>
> There is one other alternative. Learn
how to properly hand prop
>your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into
>the main air tank.
> Dennis
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.
>com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.
>m
>atronics.com
>
> - The Yak-List Email Forum -
class="Apple-converted-space">
>--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List> - NEW
>MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> -->
>http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.
>com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | filling air tanks |
Me personally, I bought an industrial size tank (4' tall) and filled it myself
at a local air distributer, so I know when I fill my tank, yes. That is my technique...and
when I bought the tank I asked them to paint it yellow to preclude
any confusion.
Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be
serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to
prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be
missing is unquestionably sound judgement.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you
know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even
Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but
for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other
words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen
being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I
repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to
your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%
absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually
filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 18:16
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard? Who is PIC?
Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air
at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked
fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in. I think this might be
just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your
ride. Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about
dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!
Smash
Jerry Painter wrote:
Y'all--
I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like
onboard air tanks) can be dangerous. You may recall that at the Reno
races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a
very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.
Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill.
Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.
We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure. Be careful out
there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.
Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air
only"--by the fill port is a good one. I'd also add "maximum pressure
50 bar (735PSI)".
P.S.
For sale: beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King,
Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc. Imported and sold here
new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW. See my
website/Barnstormers or call for details. Hope to have her at ARS for
the benefit of inquiring minds.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
http://www.FlyWBA.com
Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Yak-List: O2 in air tank??????
This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the
pilot from the Yak 52. It blew lines, tank and everything else. If
someone was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the
shrapnel.
Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the
airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a
conspicuous label at/around the external air fill port saying
"compressed air only" in big, bold, letters may help at some point in
time.
Dennis
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V"
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: M14PEngines-List: O2 in air tank??????
> --> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
>
> Just got the following e mail from a friend.
>
>
>> Just a word of caution-----perhaps something you already know,
>> perhaps not.
>>
>> A friend with Murphy Moose that has the same engine you have in the
>> Gryphon, just had a strange and costly mishap -----
>>
>> He ran the air tank down trying to start a flooded engine.
>> Apparently, when the tank was recharged, someone put oxygen in. This
>> happened at another airport, not his home, and he was not aware of
>> the problem.When he started the engine, it backfired violently, but
started.
>>
>> Not being aware that there was anything wrong, he flew home. The next
>> time he tried to start, no air pressure.
>>
>> Seems that when it backfired, the pressure was so extream that it
>> blew a 3000# line at the engine, as well as another fitting on a hard
>> line, and lastly, blew the air start distributor apx 3" off the
engine.
>>
>> Bent the lines to the cylinders, and stripped the studs out of the
>> adapter that the air distributor sits on.
>>
>> Moral of this story, if you need an air fill, be sure that it is air,
>> or nitrogen, not oxygen.
>>
>
>
> Are the O2 transfill adapters compatible with the fill connector on
> the
________________________________
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: filling air tanks |
In a message dated 4/5/2007 4:13:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
They are exactly the same except that the Russian one has the little manual
tab that you Yak guys move with your toe.
Pappy
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I'd be curious to know whether the CJ start valve is identical to the
Russian one.
I need to send you a few digital images.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 16:01
Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
Mark,
I can only speak to the Chinese start valves but they seem to be fond of
removing the tab but oddly enough they seem to do it upon installation.
I say this because 100% of the new valves received from China have the
tabs in place.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
>--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>Brings up another point.
>
>Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a
>tab on it for manual operation. If you replace this valve, the newer
>model valve lacks this tab. So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE. The lower
>case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement
>valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.
>
>My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never
>know what part inside of it might become essential someday.
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>N50YK
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
>Savarese
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 13:43
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
>You are right on the money Herb. ALWAYS hand prop from behind the
prop.
>Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for sure. With no air,
>tying the airplane down is and absolute must.
>Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Or if the sissy electric start is not working also. This
happened to
>me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand prop. I
>had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared to the
>yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too bad.
>BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP. AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE PROP.
>GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when the
>m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has only
>hand propped cubbies.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>
>
> Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of
particular
>importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in
>your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it. A
>full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air
>start system occur.
>
> Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that
have the
>electric start on them. :-)
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Baker <mailto:f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
><mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: filling air tanks
>
> Dennis suggestion is a very good one. The M-14P
is, if done
>properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.
>
>
>Roger__________________________________________________________________
>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
>wrote:
>
>
>
> There is one other alternative. Learn
how to properly hand prop
>your airplane. Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into
>the main air tank.
> Dennis
>
>
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