Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:35 AM - Air System (NapeOne@aol.com)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: Air System (Jim Bernier)
3. 07:12 AM - Re: Air System (viperdoc)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: Air System (Tim Gagnon)
5. 09:51 AM - Re: Air System (flir47)
6. 10:19 AM - Thanks Jill for the report (Drew Blahnick)
7. 12:23 PM - 52 Mag compass (stuart.goodridge@goodridge.net)
8. 01:40 PM - dynamic balancing Yak52 prop (Hans Oortman 1)
9. 02:00 PM - Re: dynamic balancing Yak52 prop (Mark Weidhaas)
10. 02:03 PM - Re: dynamic balancing Yak52 prop (flir47)
11. 04:20 PM - Re: Air System (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Air System (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
Message 1
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Mark- My thoughts exactly. Be very careful what you put in the air system.
David H.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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There are those oils that can degrade the seals used in the air system.
With that in mind, I have been using sewing machine oil. I place about two
ounces in the tank once a year. I have been using it for almost two years
with no seal leak. I assumed that since this oil lubricates a sewing
machine without the problem of soiling cloth it must be good with any
synthetic. So far so good. I had the tank out of the plane for inspection
recently and found no rust. Just a little oil remaining. On my conditional
inspentions I remove the tank, inspect, and add another two ounces.
Just another avenue to the same place.
Jim B.
>>> <NapeOne@aol.com> 5/24/2007 8:33:57 AM >>>
Mark- My thoughts exactly. Be very careful what you put in the air system.
David H.
See what's free at AOL.com.
===================
Message 3
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Now this might be another place for MMO for sure! In the quest to find 101
uses for MMO, this might be #89.
Seriously, we have been adding 6 oz of machine oil along with removing,
draining, and drying the tanks at annual. Have not seen any rust in the
tanks to date. We generally get about 3 oz of the oil back and a few
droplets of water that is less that a couple of ccs'.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of NapeOne@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Air System
Mark- My thoughts exactly. Be very careful what you put in the air system.
David H.
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 4
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Good to hear people are taking steps to prevent failure. I suffered two tank failures
due to lack of proper care in my airplanes earlier life. We have replaced
both tanks but not without a great deal of trouble. If you are a -50 owner,
you better start thinking of an alternative to the current setup. I have and
it will turn out quite nice and will add some needed cargo space.
The 52 owners have a better outlook.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114578#114578
Message 5
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My 2 cents:
Oil in the system is a good thing. Also, I suppose that logically the wrong oil
is going to be a determent.
But what ticks me of the most is my seal guy says this and my oil guy says that
I have noticed this more in the Yak community than with any other. I have been
involved with.
How about the seal guy telling us what the seal is composed of????? Is it Nytrile???
HNBR???? Or discarded Latex from behind the Trojan plant????
This kind of information will tell us what oil to use or not for sure!
I have read more than my share of B.S here about motor oil too!
I used air tool oil for more than 5 years and with no issues because of oil.
Mark B: Your idea for desiccant is a very good one! You seem to be the factory
for good ideas here on the boards. For the record, I agree with about 99% of
what you have to say.
Except for the Nitrogen. That is a waste of time and money. My 2 cents and Im not
going to debate it.
BTW: got the tail wheel shimmy (50) fixed too. Moved the cable like you suggested
and works like a dream! Thanks!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114583#114583
Message 6
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| Subject: | Thanks Jill for the report |
Great synopsis Jill,
Loaded your website on our members links page and this post was loaded on the
website under communications - RPA News for our random web surfers, great info!
Engine manufacturing returns to the M-14P and US fuel prices moderate...wishful
thinking I know....
Drew
Drew A. Blahnick
RPA President
www.flyredstar.org
V.954.636.7560
F.305.675.3940
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Message 7
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Unfortunately both the Liquid Mag compasses on my 52 have packed up -
anyone have one or two they don't need or know where the original type can
be obtained ?
Regards
Stuart Goodridge
G-HYAK
Exeter UK
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Message 8
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| Subject: | dynamic balancing Yak52 prop |
Guys,
Does anyone have a protocol to dynamically balance the prop of a Yak52, i.e
where to put the sensors etc.??
Have had a new prop installed but she still shakes too much in my opinion
and certainly in comparison with the previous prop.
If during run-up test the prop is tested the vibration gets worse when the
prop is in course position which doesn't feel right.
Who can help?
Hans
Yak52 driver
Message 9
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| Subject: | dynamic balancing Yak52 prop |
Hello Hans,
Here is a quick link to prop balancing written by Jim Falkner of JF
Dynamics.
HYPERLINK
"http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/balance.html"http://home.earthlin
k.n
et/~yak52driver/balance.html
He is one of the best in the business.
Thank you,
Mark J. Weidhaas
Yak 52 =9336=94
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman 1
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Yak-List: dynamic balancing Yak52 prop
Guys,
Does anyone have a protocol to dynamically balance the prop of a Yak52,
i.e
where to put the sensors etc.??
Have had a new prop installed but she still shakes too much in my
opinion
and certainly in comparison with the previous prop.
If during run-up test the prop is tested the vibration gets worse when
the
prop is in course position which doesn=92t feel right.
Who can help?
Hans
Yak52 driver
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
iga
tor?Yak-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
3:59 PM
3:59 PM
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: dynamic balancing Yak52 prop |
Hans,
I did my 52 prop last November. Put the sensor on the right side of the ring (cooling
gills) where the support rod meets. There were, I think, 2 small bolts
that attach the rod to the mounting ring. It was very stable. I didnt get pics
unfortunately. Then put the reflector on the back of the blade to match.
My prop took 113 grams on one side to counter the crappy Russian blades.
Hope you have different ones than Russian made.
Dont forget to set the angle first!
Good luck and it is worth the effort .mine was smooooooth
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114613#114613
Message 11
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Doc,
Rust is "issue A".
Seals crumbling apart is: "Issue B".
There are at least two types of landing gear actuator seals "out there"
for the YAK-50 that I know of alone. The original Russian seal, and a
replacement that is made here in the United States. The actual material
used in each of them is quite different. The American made seal is more
tolerant of oil. The Russian one will harden, yet still work perfectly
for many years without a problem. However, if it has hardened, and you
add oil, it will crumble and break apart like a piece of burnt wood in
your hands. This is not conjecture speaking here, this is experience.
When making broad, across the board suggestions like "adding oil to the
air system is a good thing", one has to be careful. There is nothing in
any Russian manual about adding oil into the air system. This is a case
of owners of these aircraft seeing rust ... Which is a bad thing.... And
then thinking: "Well, I will just add some oil to this problem which
will help solve that old corrosion issue".
Some of the worst corrosion is seen in the actuators, and there is a
reason for this. The actuators are in fact expansion chambers. Think
what happens when you allow compressed air to expand rapidly.
So we come back to the original problem. Corrosion. In the actuators,
you have several choices. On the 50, you can take them apart, blast off
any and all corrosion, and then paint them with the best epoxy polyamide
paint money can buy. Or you can have them made out of stainless steel
(one gent actually did that). The same thing goes for the air bottles.
Another "good idea" is to mount the air bottles upside down. When you
do that, any water that is in there will come right back out when you
release air for brakes or landing gear actuation.
If you can manage to eliminate the water, you can really slow down the
corrosion process "no matter what". The snot valve is one attempt
towards this. Adding a desiccant filter is yet another.
However, if you want to start adding oil into the air system, I would
strongly suggest you find out the exact type of seal in use on your
aircraft, get one in hand, and cover it with some of the oil you intend
on using. Wait a few months and then take another look at that seal.
Bottom line, if you have brand new landing gear and flap actuator seals,
you are a lot safer adding "oil" or whatever...to your air lines. If
you have an OLD Yak aircraft that has not had the seals replaced since
Christ was a Corporal, I would not rush right in and start squirting oil
all over creation.
I "rushed in".... I also then learned how to blow the gear and remove
and replace the seals in those actuators.
Your milage may vary,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:11
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air System
Now this might be another place for MMO for sure! In the quest to find
101 uses for MMO, this might be #89.
Seriously, we have been adding 6 oz of machine oil along with removing,
draining, and drying the tanks at annual. Have not seen any rust in the
tanks to date. We generally get about 3 oz of the oil back and a few
droplets of water that is less that a couple of ccs'.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NapeOne@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Air System
Mark- My thoughts exactly. Be very careful what you put in the air
system.
David H.
________________________________
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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I elaborated on the issue of the oil in a subsequent posting, which I should have
done when I first wrote, sorry. Your interest in the exact composition of
the seals in use is of course the central issue. The answer to that is: "I don't
know". Jill and Carl do sell REPLACEMENT seals, and I would encourage someone
to ask them what they are made of. EXACTLY.
When I purchased my 50, the landing gear worked perfectly. 1984 model. I then
read about adding air tool oil. I did that. One week later, I heard air gushing
out of the landing gear actuator valve in the cockpit when ever the gear
was lowered and left down. For those not in the know... Air continuously coming
out of your landing gear selector valve is a sure sign of seal failure in the
landing gear actuators of the 50 (remember, the 50 has no flaps).
Of course, I did not know this, and took every darn thing in the airplane apart
trying to figure out why this was happening. This was my first HARD LEARNING
EXPERIENCE with Yaks. It was also the first article I ever wrote on Yak-50's.
Long story short, I managed to take the actuator out of the aircraft.... NOT
FUN..... Then learned how to take it apart, and almost ruined it in the process.....and
then actually managed to get seals and rebuild it. Being lazy, and
also very tired and VERY frustrated, I did not bother to replace the actuator
on the OTHER side of the aircraft at the same time. Another bad move on my
part.
One year later, next Conditional Inspection, I added more air oil to both sides
again.
One week later, I was replacing the OTHER landing gear actuator. After having
to blow the gear down. Lesson to be learned there too about how fast to open
the emergency gear valve. Another lesson to be learned there is what to do AFTER
you have lowered the gear. Hint: This differs from a 50 to a 52 in a BIG
way.
Point of fact: Both actuators needed new seals.
Point of fact: Adding air tool oil made it no longer an "option".
Nitrogen:
We use dry water pumped nitrogen to purge radar waveguides of moisture in the military.
High powered waveguides and even coaxial hardlines are always pressurized
with nitrogen. A common variation is to use a compressor and regular air,
but running it through a few desiccant containers. So, it was not really my
idea.
As to how well it works in my application... No argument. It might not work at
all. You mileage may vary.
Thanks for the compliments. There are other who have contributed far more.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:50
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air System
My 2 cents:
Oil in the system is a good thing. Also, I suppose that logically the wrong oil
is going to be a determent.
But what ticks me of the most is my seal guy says this and my oil guy says that
I have noticed this more in the Yak community than with any other. I have been
involved with.
How about the seal guy telling us what the seal is composed of????? Is it Nytrile???
HNBR???? Or discarded Latex from behind the Trojan plant????
This kind of information will tell us what oil to use or not for sure!
I have read more than my share of B.S here about motor oil too!
I used air tool oil for more than 5 years and with no issues because of oil.
Mark B: Your idea for desiccant is a very good one! You seem to be the factory
for good ideas here on the boards. For the record, I agree with about 99% of
what you have to say.
Except for the Nitrogen. That is a waste of time and money. My 2 cents and Im not
going to debate it.
BTW: got the tail wheel shimmy (50) fixed too. Moved the cable like you suggested
and works like a dream! Thanks!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114583#114583
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