Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Tim Gagnon)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Tim Gagnon)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Terry Lewis)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Yaks Wanted..KMWO (Tim Gagnon)
5. 06:23 AM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (flir47)
6. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (fish@aviation-tech.com)
7. 06:49 AM - Re: Fw: pix (Joe Howse)
8. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 08:05 AM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (flir47)
10. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Jan Mevis)
12. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Roger Kemp)
13. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Roger Kemp)
14. 11:22 AM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (flir47)
15. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Jan Mevis)
16. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Roger Kemp)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (A. Dennis Savarese)
18. 01:15 PM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (flir47)
19. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (A. Dennis Savarese)
20. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
21. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (A. Dennis Savarese)
22. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
23. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
24. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: WARBIRD (ROBERT SCHWARTZ)
25. 04:35 PM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Zeman)
26. 06:24 PM - dead horse (Terry Lewis)
27. 06:48 PM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Scooter)
28. 07:08 PM - Flirs Big Deal (david stroud)
29. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Jim Griffin)
30. 07:40 PM - Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Zeman)
31. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
There is only one person that I care about who needs to keep thinking this is a
warbird, and that is my insurance man. As long as I get "cheaper" premiums, then
you can call it whatever you want.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117976#117976
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
> You seem to add nothing to the content of the list so you are now on my
> deleat list.
> good by.
> Terry
Who was that directed towards? (I guess I will know if it was me if he does not
respond due being on the delete list.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117977#117977
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
flir47
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:59 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
>
>> You seem to add nothing to the content of the list so you are now on my
>> deleat list.
>> good by.
>> Terry
>
>
> Who was that directed towards? (I guess I will know if it was me if he
> does not respond due being on the delete list.)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117977#117977
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yaks Wanted..KMWO |
Last word I got was that they are expecting 50+ airplanes. Not many Yaks.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117990#117990
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Tim,
My guess is.. he is referring to me.
Here is the question: Do we really save money on insurance by being in the warbird
category? That is my point with all of this. What is the benefit of being
in with the big guns or heavy iron as it is put.
I had a Yak 52 with a really nice paint job on it. Not-military type but still
cool. Kind of like yours. BTW Your 50 is REALLY nice looking!
At fly-ins and such with this aircraft, I received far less questions about is
this a real warbird. I never thought too much about it until, I bought the 50
I have now. Its painted in full military drag.
Now all I get Is this from WWII? Answer: NO it was made in 1977! Is it a war bird?
Answer: Im not sure. Nothing. I find on the net says so.
Upon researching of searching the web, I found no info stating that the 52 or 50
are nothing more than aerobatic training and demonstration aircraft.
The bottoms painted red and the tops white or other bright colors. Reason: So the
judges on the ground could grade them. The new Yaks come right from the plant
to the Civilian owner now. Is it still a military warbird?
Remember after 9-11? Some idiot wanted to ground all Military type aircraft as
is could be a threat to security. This is BS of coursebut are we really doing
ourselves a favor by being included in this group? Not that that either group
is a lesser being.
Why get so defensive when someone calls it to the carpet playing devils advocate?
When someone does why get angry and pick up your toys and go home? Tons more
of questions thrown at mefrom other pilots that I have no real clear answer
for.
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117993#117993
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Group,
If you want to get down to it: A real warbird is one that
has fired shots at or taken shots in combat.
Very few aircraft(including big iron), has been shot at or
received shots in combat!
With that said, I will still consider my BT-13's, L-5's,
T-33 (sold last year), PT-19, PT-26 and Yak-52 as a warbird!
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
> <mark@pld.com>
>
> I guess "warbird" just always meant military aircraft to
> me (and possibly some others as well). What conflict was
> a -52 in? Easy answer. Mine and two others were engaged
> over Bull Shoals Reservoir last weekend at Gaston's Great
> Weekend Getaway in a little 1v1 and a nice 2v1 furball.
> Probably sounded like the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot to
> boaters below. No shots fired, but a few pipper burns
> requiring chilled liquid medication afterward for all.
>
> Mark Davis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:56 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
>
> <me262pilot@comcast.net> >
> >
> > MarkWDavis wrote:
> >> Using hardpoints or guns as a determining factor, an
> SR-71 isn't a >> warbird
> >> and a C-47 gunship is. Nor was an RF-8G Crusader or
> RA-5C Vigilante, but >> a
> >> C-130 they can shove a MOAB out of the back would be.
> Now I'm really >> confused! I'm going to have to take my
> YAK "poser" in for therapy >> before I
> >> have 25w-60 tears all over the floor of my hangar.....
> >>
> >> Mark Davis
> >>
> >> ---
> >
> >
> > None of these are primary trainers??.
Dressed up to
> > look like a warbird.
> >
> > You have a Yak? then you already have oil on the
floor
> in your hanger >
> > What conflict was the 52 used in again????? I?Tm a
> > little hazy on that?.
> >
> > --------
> > You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117904#117904
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Use the
Archive
Photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ==
>
>
Message 7
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Hi Bruce
Great paint job.
I am just starting an 18T project, any tips for parts availability?
Joe Howse, Duncan BC Canada
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
This photo was taken at a Lithuania air force training base by me in 2005.
Note the Cross of Lorraine national marking on the tail.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Tim,
>
> My guess is?.. he is referring to me.
>
> Here is the question: Do we really save money on insurance by being in the
> warbird category? That is my point with all of this. What is the benefit
> of being in with the big gun?Ts or heavy iron as it is put.
>
> I had a Yak 52 with a really nice paint job on it. Not-military type but
> still cool. Kind of like yours. BTW Your 50 is REALLY nice looking!
>
> At fly-ins and such with this aircraft, I received far less questions
> about ?ois this a real warbird?. I never thought too much about it
> until, I bought the 50 I have now. It?Ts painted in full military drag.
>
> Now all I get ?oIs this from WWII?? Answer: NO it was made in 1977! Is
> it a war bird? Answer: I?Tm not sure. Nothing?. I find on the net
> say?Ts so.
>
> Upon researching of searching the web, I found no info stating that the 52
> or 50 are nothing more than aerobatic training and demonstration aircraft.
>
> The bottoms painted red and the tops white or other bright colors. Reason:
> So the judges on the ground could grade them. The new Yaks come right from
> the plant to the Civilian owner now. Is it still a military warbird?
>
> Remember after 9-11? Some idiot wanted to ground all Military type
> aircraft as is could be a threat to security. This is BS of course?but
> are we really doing ourselves a favor by being included in this group? Not
> that that either group is a lesser being.
>
> Why get so defensive when someone calls it to the carpet playing devils
> advocate? When someone does ?why get angry and pick up your toys and go
> home? Tons more of questions thrown at me?from other pilots that I have
> no real clear answer for.
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117993#117993
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Dennis,
Here is a pic of my 50 tail. Please explain what this confirms.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/88turboGT/50flag.jpg
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118011#118011
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
I really don't know what it might confirm. One thing for sure, it displays
the official insignia seen on Lithuanian military aircraft as are the green
and gray. The reason for sending the photo of the 52 on the pedestal was
because the 52's were and still are used by the Lithuanian air force for
training purposes. Plus, it was so unique to me to see a 52 on a pedestal
at the entrance to an airfield. That's why I took the picture in the first
place.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Dennis,
>
> Here is a pic of my 50 tail. Please explain what this confirms.
>
> http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/88turboGT/50flag.jpg
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118011#118011
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
It's a Christian orthodox symbol, going back to the 15th century. That's
probably the reason why it's used by the Lituanians after the fall of the
Soviet empire. For your information, it was also used by the French
Vichy-regime during the second World War (reason why you might see it on
some french airplanes).
Jan Mevis
RA2005K
YK50
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: dinsdag 12 juni 2007 17:21
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I really don't know what it might confirm. One thing for sure, it displays
the official insignia seen on Lithuanian military aircraft as are the green
and gray. The reason for sending the photo of the 52 on the pedestal was
because the 52's were and still are used by the Lithuanian air force for
training purposes. Plus, it was so unique to me to see a 52 on a pedestal
at the entrance to an airfield. That's why I took the picture in the first
place.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Dennis,
>
> Here is a pic of my 50 tail. Please explain what this confirms.
>
> http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/88turboGT/50flag.jpg
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118011#118011
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Well danged. Its' a YAK on a Stick!
Gate guards.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
This photo was taken at a Lithuania air force training base by me in 2005.
Note the Cross of Lorraine national marking on the tail.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Tim,
>
> My guess is?.. he is referring to me.
>
> Here is the question: Do we really save money on insurance by being in the
> warbird category? That is my point with all of this. What is the benefit
> of being in with the big gun?Ts or heavy iron as it is put.
>
> I had a Yak 52 with a really nice paint job on it. Not-military type but
> still cool. Kind of like yours. BTW Your 50 is REALLY nice looking!
>
> At fly-ins and such with this aircraft, I received far less questions
> about ?ois this a real warbird?. I never thought too much about it
> until, I bought the 50 I have now. It?Ts painted in full military drag.
>
> Now all I get ?oIs this from WWII?? Answer: NO it was made in 1977! Is
> it a war bird? Answer: I?Tm not sure. Nothing?. I find on the net
> say?Ts so.
>
> Upon researching of searching the web, I found no info stating that the 52
> or 50 are nothing more than aerobatic training and demonstration aircraft.
>
> The bottoms painted red and the tops white or other bright colors. Reason:
> So the judges on the ground could grade them. The new Yaks come right from
> the plant to the Civilian owner now. Is it still a military warbird?
>
> Remember after 9-11? Some idiot wanted to ground all Military type
> aircraft as is could be a threat to security. This is BS of course?but
> are we really doing ourselves a favor by being included in this group? Not
> that that either group is a lesser being.
>
> Why get so defensive when someone calls it to the carpet playing devils
> advocate? When someone does ?why get angry and pick up your toys and go
> home? Tons more of questions thrown at me?from other pilots that I have
> no real clear answer for.
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117993#117993
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Where's the ACLU? This is clearly a violation of the Church and State Rule
they are such champions of. Christian symbols on the tails of military
aircraft?!
Sorry, that is Lithuania. They can do as they like since they are just
finding out what it means to determine your own destiny.
Anyway, this does prove we are the proud owners of economical war birds! Far
cheaper to operate than their T-6 and T-34 cousins (well distant that is). I
dare say, having flown each of the others that ours are way more fun for
sure! Now granted, they are not YAK-3's, 9', 11's, F4U's, P-51's, P-47's,
F-86's, ect, but saying that, I get to go home after a day of flying with
money still left in the checking account knowing I could fly 3.33 hours for
what it would have cost me for one hour had I bought that YAK-9 I was
thinking about. Or 40 hours for one had I had I gone all visceral for that
L-39! I almost bit off on both ( my bride would have probably bitten off
both too had I done so)! The only thing that saved me...runway length! 08A
has 3500 ft with no plans for lengthening and that is where my hanger is.
Yep, just plan to keep enjoying my economical war bird all the way from the
bank!
May just have to paint a Cross of Lorraine on the tail to tweak the liberals
though.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
It's a Christian orthodox symbol, going back to the 15th century. That's
probably the reason why it's used by the Lituanians after the fall of the
Soviet empire. For your information, it was also used by the French
Vichy-regime during the second World War (reason why you might see it on
some french airplanes).
Jan Mevis
RA2005K
YK50
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: dinsdag 12 juni 2007 17:21
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
I really don't know what it might confirm. One thing for sure, it displays
the official insignia seen on Lithuanian military aircraft as are the green
and gray. The reason for sending the photo of the 52 on the pedestal was
because the 52's were and still are used by the Lithuanian air force for
training purposes. Plus, it was so unique to me to see a 52 on a pedestal
at the entrance to an airfield. That's why I took the picture in the first
place.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Dennis,
>
> Here is a pic of my 50 tail. Please explain what this confirms.
>
> http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/88turboGT/50flag.jpg
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118011#118011
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Doc
Dont get too excited here. Someone sent this explanation to me on the side.
I think it is really good.
It has nothing to do with 50s or 52s being warbirds..they are not.
It is in reference to actual warbirds. You should have gone for the 3..
The "double" white cross is the Cross of Lorraine - obviously French.
Also on your 50 you will see the red, white and blue of the French flag. The reason
for these on a Russian aeroplane is simple. A group of French pilots ended
up in Russia, and the Russians were delighted to accept a new squadron, being
very short of pilots.
The French were given a choice of any Allied aircraft, and chose the Yak-3, and
indeed flew with great distinction.
In 1945 the pilots were then each given their Yak-3's, and they flew them back
to France.
Sadly only one remains in the Museum Le Bourget!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118051#118051
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
I made a big mistake, I am verry sorry. Of course the Croix de Lorraine was NOT
used by the French Vichy regime, but by the FREE FRENCH. The vice admiral Muselier,
born in the region of Lorraine, escaped to England, joined Charles de Gaulle.
He ordered the use of the Croix de Lorraine on the allied French airplanes
and ships.
And it's absolutely correct that French pilots preferred the Yak 3 for combat on
the Russian front.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: dinsdag 12 juni 2007 20:21
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
Doc
Dont get too excited here. Someone sent this explanation to me on the side.
I think it is really good.
It has nothing to do with 50s or 52s being warbirds..they are not.
It is in reference to actual warbirds. You should have gone for the 3..
The "double" white cross is the Cross of Lorraine - obviously French.
Also on your 50 you will see the red, white and blue of the French flag. The reason
for these on a Russian aeroplane is simple. A group of French pilots ended
up in Russia, and the Russians were delighted to accept a new squadron, being
very short of pilots.
The French were given a choice of any Allied aircraft, and chose the Yak-3, and
indeed flew with great distinction.
In 1945 the pilots were then each given their Yak-3's, and they flew them back
to France.
Sadly only one remains in the Museum Le Bourget!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118051#118051
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Very true. One of those French Aces lives near here. One of the YAK 9 owners (at
Tallassee, Ala) has his 9 painted in the scheme of that squadron.
I have not met the gentleman but Jim Cook has on more than one occasion. Jim is
the owner of the YAK 9 I mentioned.
That was another reason for considering owning a 9.
As a mil trainer, the 52 does fall in the war bird category.
Not that we need to split hairs and it really does not make any difference as to
will be flying my YAK as a warbird or for what I fly it for now...fun.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
Doc
Dont get too excited here. Someone sent this explanation to me on the side.
I think it is really good.
It has nothing to do with 50s or 52s being warbirds..they are not.
It is in reference to actual warbirds. You should have gone for the 3..
The "double" white cross is the Cross of Lorraine - obviously French.
Also on your 50 you will see the red, white and blue of the French flag. The reason
for these on a Russian aeroplane is simple. A group of French pilots ended
up in Russia, and the Russians were delighted to accept a new squadron, being
very short of pilots.
The French were given a choice of any Allied aircraft, and chose the Yak-3, and
indeed flew with great distinction.
In 1945 the pilots were then each given their Yak-3's, and they flew them back
to France.
Sadly only one remains in the Museum Le Bourget!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118051#118051
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Yes, obviously French origin. But in case you did not know, it is also the
national markings for the Lithuanian air force.
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/lith/lithaf2.htm
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:21 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> Doc
>
> Don?Tt get too excited here. Someone sent this explanation to me on the
> side.
> I think it is really good.
>
> It has nothing to do with 50?Ts or 52?Ts being warbirds..they are not.
>
> It is in reference to actual warbirds. You should have gone for the 3?..
>
>
> The "double" white cross is the Cross of Lorraine - obviously French.
>
> Also on your 50 you will see the red, white and blue of the French flag.
> The reason for these on a Russian aeroplane is simple. A group of French
> pilots ended up in Russia, and the Russians were delighted to accept a new
> squadron, being very short of pilots.
>
> The French were given a choice of any Allied aircraft, and chose the
> Yak-3, and indeed flew with great distinction.
>
> In 1945 the pilots were then each given their Yak-3's, and they flew them
> back to France.
>
> Sadly only one remains in the Museum Le Bourget!
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118051#118051
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
DOSSAF:
This was a military run organization oriented toward preparing interested Soviet
teenage youth for military service.
mil trainer??? Sounds like a strech to me....
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118083#118083
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
What does the DOSSAF have to do with the Lithuanian air force today?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:14 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
> DOSSAF:
>
> This was a military run organization oriented toward preparing interested
> Soviet teenage youth for military service.
>
> mil trainer??? Sounds like a strech to me....
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118083#118083
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
If I followed my own advice I would stay out of this one.......
But......
Your definition of the DOSSAF is fairly accurate. Members of the DOSSAF
that showed any skill generally went from there into one of two
different directions. One was competition aerobatics, the other was
military service. Only the very best of them flew the YAK-50, it was
not available for any Tom, Dick or Harry that came along.
The DOSSAF was not aimed towards the "youth" of the society, but at
anyone at all that was interested and desired to learn how to fly. If
you could pass the physical, you were in. All training from then point
on was free of charge. The training was fast and furious and not a "joy
ride". One could easily argue that the DOSSAF was more like the start
of military service rather than saying "preparing them for it". In a
way, close to the ROTC of our country.
That said, the YAK-52 trainer was built to a military specification that
called for it to be the primary trainer for all military pilots. Ever
notice the way the brakes work on a YAK-52? Go look at almost every
Russian military fighter jet built. Guess what? It has the same type
of braking system. This is not coincidence, this is due to a well
thought out plan.
So here you have an aircraft built to military specification, by a
Russian firm well known for building military attack and fighter
aircraft, being used as initial and primary training for the majority of
all military pilots. Yes indeed, I would call the YAK-52 a military
trainer, that was sometimes used to train those that become aerobatic
team members as well. Comparing the number of pilots who flew it that
went on to fly jet fighters, compared to the number that went into the
aerobatic teams, it CLEARLY was a military trainer.
That said, on the same token, the YAK-50 would indeed be a STRETCH to
call a military trainer. A military "anything" for that matter. Not
too many of the upcoming jet jocks flew it, mostly just the top
aerobatic team members.
The Soviet military was not set up exactly as was our military. If you
focus on those very exact differences, you could indeed argue that the
YAK-52 was not "exactly" a military trainer by OUR definitions. Make no
mistake though, it clearly was a military trainer by THEIR definitions,
no stretch at all.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
References: Sergei Boriak; SPETSNAZ and Russian Aerobatic Champion,
Vladimir Yastremski; Master Mechanic, pilot, and Russian Paratrooper.
Of note, Sergei flew my YAK-50 when on the Aerobatic Team out of
Kazakhstan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 16:15
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
DOSSAF:
This was a military run organization oriented toward preparing
interested Soviet teenage youth for military service.
mil trainer??? Sounds like a strech to me....
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118083#118083
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Thanks Mark. Very well put too!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> If I followed my own advice I would stay out of this one.......
> But......
>
> Your definition of the DOSSAF is fairly accurate. Members of the DOSSAF
> that showed any skill generally went from there into one of two
> different directions. One was competition aerobatics, the other was
> military service. Only the very best of them flew the YAK-50, it was
> not available for any Tom, Dick or Harry that came along.
>
> The DOSSAF was not aimed towards the "youth" of the society, but at
> anyone at all that was interested and desired to learn how to fly. If
> you could pass the physical, you were in. All training from then point
> on was free of charge. The training was fast and furious and not a "joy
> ride". One could easily argue that the DOSSAF was more like the start
> of military service rather than saying "preparing them for it". In a
> way, close to the ROTC of our country.
>
> That said, the YAK-52 trainer was built to a military specification that
> called for it to be the primary trainer for all military pilots. Ever
> notice the way the brakes work on a YAK-52? Go look at almost every
> Russian military fighter jet built. Guess what? It has the same type
> of braking system. This is not coincidence, this is due to a well
> thought out plan.
>
> So here you have an aircraft built to military specification, by a
> Russian firm well known for building military attack and fighter
> aircraft, being used as initial and primary training for the majority of
> all military pilots. Yes indeed, I would call the YAK-52 a military
> trainer, that was sometimes used to train those that become aerobatic
> team members as well. Comparing the number of pilots who flew it that
> went on to fly jet fighters, compared to the number that went into the
> aerobatic teams, it CLEARLY was a military trainer.
>
> That said, on the same token, the YAK-50 would indeed be a STRETCH to
> call a military trainer. A military "anything" for that matter. Not
> too many of the upcoming jet jocks flew it, mostly just the top
> aerobatic team members.
>
> The Soviet military was not set up exactly as was our military. If you
> focus on those very exact differences, you could indeed argue that the
> YAK-52 was not "exactly" a military trainer by OUR definitions. Make no
> mistake though, it clearly was a military trainer by THEIR definitions,
> no stretch at all.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> References: Sergei Boriak; SPETSNAZ and Russian Aerobatic Champion,
> Vladimir Yastremski; Master Mechanic, pilot, and Russian Paratrooper.
> Of note, Sergei flew my YAK-50 when on the Aerobatic Team out of
> Kazakhstan.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 16:15
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
>
> DOSSAF:
>
> This was a military run organization oriented toward preparing
> interested Soviet teenage youth for military service.
>
> mil trainer??? Sounds like a strech to me....
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118083#118083
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Ditto.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:58
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
There is only one person that I care about who needs to keep thinking
this is a warbird, and that is my insurance man. As long as I get
"cheaper" premiums, then you can call it whatever you want.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117976#117976
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
You see, this posting clearly defines the issue at hand, which is: WHAT DEFINES
A WARBIRD? (Thanks John)
The answer is simply that there are MANY definitions, and only your own point of
view legitimizes ANY of them.
ERGO: In order to become the WINNER, or being clearly RIGHT about this topic will
require every OTHER person to give in to some single person or group vis--vis
the way "they" define the word.
The chance of that happening? ..... Not likely.
Moving on, I was dared to say this: "Clearly, without regard to warbird status,
the YAK-50 makes all your other aircraft look like poop anyway".
That said: DON'T EVER DARE ME DOUG! Hopefully the readership will take it for
what it was worth! :-) We'll see!
MGB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fish@aviation-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:20
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
--> <fish@aviation-tech.com>
Group,
If you want to get down to it: A real warbird is one that has fired shots at or
taken shots in combat.
Very few aircraft(including big iron), has been shot at or received shots in combat!
With that said, I will still consider my BT-13's, L-5's,
T-33 (sold last year), PT-19, PT-26 and Yak-52 as a warbird!
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
> <mark@pld.com>
>
> I guess "warbird" just always meant military aircraft to me (and
> possibly some others as well). What conflict was a -52 in? Easy
> answer. Mine and two others were engaged over Bull Shoals Reservoir
> last weekend at Gaston's Great Weekend Getaway in a little 1v1 and a
> nice 2v1 furball.
> Probably sounded like the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot to
> boaters below. No shots fired, but a few pipper burns
> requiring chilled liquid medication afterward for all.
>
> Mark Davis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:56 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
>
> <me262pilot@comcast.net> >
> >
> > MarkWDavis wrote:
> >> Using hardpoints or guns as a determining factor, an
> SR-71 isn't a >> warbird
> >> and a C-47 gunship is. Nor was an RF-8G Crusader or
> RA-5C Vigilante, but >> a
> >> C-130 they can shove a MOAB out of the back would be.
> Now I'm really >> confused! I'm going to have to take my
> YAK "poser" in for therapy >> before I
> >> have 25w-60 tears all over the floor of my hangar.....
> >>
> >> Mark Davis
> >>
> >> ---
> >
> >
> > None of these are primary trainers??.
Dressed up to
> > look like a warbird.
> >
> > You have a Yak? then you already have oil on the
floor
> in your hanger >
> > What conflict was the 52 used in again????? I?Tm a little hazy on
> > that?.
> >
> > --------
> > You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117904#117904
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Use the
Archive
Photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ==
>
>
Message 24
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thought I better get my 2 cents in on this warbird definition. I would
agree the YAK 52 belongs in the warbird arena.. However, although a really
nice aircraft there is no way the YAK 52TW can be classified as a warbird.
It is a totally civilian designed and built aircraft for that market and as
such really does not belong in this category.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> If I followed my own advice I would stay out of this one.......
> But......
>
> Your definition of the DOSSAF is fairly accurate. Members of the DOSSAF
> that showed any skill generally went from there into one of two
> different directions. One was competition aerobatics, the other was
> military service. Only the very best of them flew the YAK-50, it was
> not available for any Tom, Dick or Harry that came along.
>
> The DOSSAF was not aimed towards the "youth" of the society, but at
> anyone at all that was interested and desired to learn how to fly. If
> you could pass the physical, you were in. All training from then point
> on was free of charge. The training was fast and furious and not a "joy
> ride". One could easily argue that the DOSSAF was more like the start
> of military service rather than saying "preparing them for it". In a
> way, close to the ROTC of our country.
>
> That said, the YAK-52 trainer was built to a military specification that
> called for it to be the primary trainer for all military pilots. Ever
> notice the way the brakes work on a YAK-52? Go look at almost every
> Russian military fighter jet built. Guess what? It has the same type
> of braking system. This is not coincidence, this is due to a well
> thought out plan.
>
> So here you have an aircraft built to military specification, by a
> Russian firm well known for building military attack and fighter
> aircraft, being used as initial and primary training for the majority of
> all military pilots. Yes indeed, I would call the YAK-52 a military
> trainer, that was sometimes used to train those that become aerobatic
> team members as well. Comparing the number of pilots who flew it that
> went on to fly jet fighters, compared to the number that went into the
> aerobatic teams, it CLEARLY was a military trainer.
>
> That said, on the same token, the YAK-50 would indeed be a STRETCH to
> call a military trainer. A military "anything" for that matter. Not
> too many of the upcoming jet jocks flew it, mostly just the top
> aerobatic team members.
>
> The Soviet military was not set up exactly as was our military. If you
> focus on those very exact differences, you could indeed argue that the
> YAK-52 was not "exactly" a military trainer by OUR definitions. Make no
> mistake though, it clearly was a military trainer by THEIR definitions,
> no stretch at all.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
> References: Sergei Boriak; SPETSNAZ and Russian Aerobatic Champion,
> Vladimir Yastremski; Master Mechanic, pilot, and Russian Paratrooper.
> Of note, Sergei flew my YAK-50 when on the Aerobatic Team out of
> Kazakhstan.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 16:15
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
>
>
> DOSSAF:
>
> This was a military run organization oriented toward preparing
> interested Soviet teenage youth for military service.
>
> mil trainer??? Sounds like a strech to me....
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118083#118083
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
It comes down to if someone/organization defines military trainers as
warbirds. The Yak-52 is definitely a military trainer (only need one
example)
Romanian Air Force
http://www.roaf.ro/en/dotare/iak52_en.php
Message 26
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I think it is about time that the newsboys on the list look at the "
dead horse" heading on the search engine on this yak list.
This subject will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.
Give me a break!
Terry
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Just saw the following on a classifieds website: CESSNA 150J "WARBIRD" $29,000
FOR SALE OR TRADE A Cessna 150 you can be proud of at any fly-in. Excellent
attention to detail. New paint, New interior. This airplane gets attention on
any ramp.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118155#118155
Message 28
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Flir...just for the record...and for real, no one builds an
RV and flies it...they assemble and fly it. There is a
big difference, but why shout about it? Just curious.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
and on the gear...
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
The easiest definition of a warbird? Can you park in the warbird section at
OshKosh. A yak 52 with civilian paint scheme can. A Cessna 150 with military
paint cannot.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:48 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
Just saw the following on a classifieds website: CESSNA 150J "WARBIRD" ?
$29,000 ? FOR SALE OR TRADE ? A Cessna 150 you can be proud of at any
fly-in. Excellent attention to detail. New paint, New interior. This
airplane gets attention on any ramp.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118155#118155
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
It seems to come down to something like Oshkosh. The term warbird has
probably evolved over time. Once it may have only included the ones who
"fired shots". However over time it has come to cover all aircraft used by
a military. No one would think to exclude the T33, T34, L39, BT13, liasons
etc and force them to part in GA at Osh. If so (if military trainers are
included), there is no way the Yak-52 can be excluded, period.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod |
Does this mean that the Cessena 182 Mescalero can?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Griffin
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
The easiest definition of a warbird? Can you park in the warbird section at
OshKosh. A yak 52 with civilian paint scheme can. A Cessna 150 with military
paint cannot.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scooter" <yakk52@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:48 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bear 360 / Radial engine pod
Just saw the following on a classifieds website: CESSNA 150J "WARBIRD" ?
$29,000 ? FOR SALE OR TRADE ? A Cessna 150 you can be proud of at any
fly-in. Excellent attention to detail. New paint, New interior. This
airplane gets attention on any ramp.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118155#118155
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