Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: the Memphis 100 (Craig Payne)
2. 04:41 AM - locking tabs (HodgeJW@aol.com)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: locking tabs (Scooter)
4. 06:02 AM - Re: locking tabs (Cliff Coy)
5. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: the Memphis 100 (Genzlinger, Reade)
6. 07:21 AM - Illinois 52 crash (Roger Baker)
7. 07:49 AM - Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Craig Schneider)
8. 07:50 AM - Re: Illinois 52 crash (Scooter)
9. 07:51 AM - more video reports including the pilot and passenger info: Illinois 52 crash (Craig Schneider)
10. 09:17 AM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Terry Lewis)
11. 11:46 AM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (viperdoc)
12. 12:24 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Mark Scrivener)
13. 12:48 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Mark Davis)
14. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Roger Kemp)
15. 01:25 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Tim Gagnon)
16. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Lynn Allen)
17. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Roger Kemp)
18. 02:11 PM - FW: Too hot and too heavy (viperdoc)
19. 02:54 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Tim Gagnon)
20. 03:26 PM - Steve Fossett (Jim Selby)
21. 03:41 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Mark Scrivener)
22. 04:13 PM - Re: Too hot and too heavy (Mark Scrivener)
23. 06:21 PM - Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Tim Gagnon)
24. 11:42 PM - Re: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash (Brian Lloyd)
25. 11:49 PM - Re: FW: Too hot and too heavy (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: the Memphis 100 |
Questions:
Cash and/or merchandise awards? Gas provided? Housing and transpo? Appearance money
for "famous luminaries" and winners of the Sport 100 and Sport 60 races at
Sun 'n Fun?
Would a Yak-52 even go 100 miles at the 80% power rating? In the same day? Should
be a perfect event for nearby Yak-50 owners to show their stuff....
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 2
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Does anybody have those dog bone shaped locking tabs that go under the vt
530 prop nuts?
Thanks
Jay Hodge
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: locking tabs |
Contact www.m-14p.com. They've got them and just about everything else.
[quote="HodgeJW(at)aol.com"]Does anybody have those dog bone shaped locking tabs
that go under the vt 530 prop nuts?
Thanks
Jay Hodge
AOL.com (http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982).
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132643#132643
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: locking tabs |
Yep. Got lots of them. How many do you need?
Cheers,
Cliff
HodgeJW@aol.com wrote:
> Does anybody have those dog bone shaped locking tabs that go under the
> vt 530 prop nuts?
>
> Thanks
> Jay Hodge
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>.
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: the Memphis 100 |
Craig:
I think a 52 can do it. From personal experience it only take 15 fuel
stops to fly across the country and from Philly to Jackson Hole is only
11 stops!! However, that was upside down so just imagine what it could
do with the dirty side down -
Have fun -
Reade
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com <mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com>
215.914.0370
Would a Yak-52 even go 100 miles at the 80% power rating? In the same
day? Should be a perfect event for nearby Yak-50 owners to show their
stuff....
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Illinois 52 crash |
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago
suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff,
NBC 5 reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s
crashed near Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field
near Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the
county conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and
another person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in
Barrington. However, a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't
have any patients from a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing
story.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=172079
5
&at1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=25
000&red
irUrl=http://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage
&play
erVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/p
op_
playerLaunch.asp%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3Dv%26h1%3DTwo+k
illed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUrl%3Dhttp%3A//w
ww.wgntv.com%26activePane%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepage&rnd=25740
7
20
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago
suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff, NBC 5
reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed near
Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field near
Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county
conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and another
person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington. However,
a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any patients from
a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing
story.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Illinois 52 crash |
Here's more info. They describe it as going in "nose first" but the aircraft appears
to be very intact:
http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/local_story_246193257.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132674#132674
Message 9
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| Subject: | more video reports including the pilot and passenger info: Illinois |
52 crash
http://cbs2chicago.com/video?id=35319@wbbm.dayport.com
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago
suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff, NBC 5
reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed near
Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field near
Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county
conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and another
person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington. However,
a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any patients from
a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing
story.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
The pilots name was reported this morning by the Chicago Tribune as
Steve Hildebrand. He is a member of RPA.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Schneider
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=172079
5&at1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=2
5000&redirUrl=http://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=
homepage&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/
video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3
Dv%26h1%3DTwo+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUr
l%3Dhttp%3A//www.wgntv.com%26activePane%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepa
ge&rnd=25740720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Yak List
Subject: Yak-List: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
_________________________________________________________________________
______________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago
suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff, NBC
5 reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed near
Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field near
Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county
conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and another
person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington. However,
a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any patients from
a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing
story.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
This is the second fatal A/C crash I have heard of today. One from the RPA
and the other a Bonanza. Not a good day for aviating!
Fly safe and make sure the bird along with yourselves are ready to aviate!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
The pilots name was reported this morning by the Chicago Tribune as Steve
Hildebrand. He is a member of RPA.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Schneider <mailto:craig@ustek.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=1720795
<http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=1720795&at
1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=25000&redirUrl=h
ttp://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage&playerVersion=1
&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.as
p%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3Dv%26h1%3DTwo+killed+in+Chicago+su
burb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUrl%3Dhttp%3A//www.wgntv.com%26activePa
ne%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepage&rnd=25740720>
&at1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=25000&redirUr
l=http://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage&playerVersio
n=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch
.asp%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3Dv%26h1%3DTwo+killed+in+Chicago
+suburb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUrl%3Dhttp%3A//www.wgntv.com%26activ
ePane%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepage&rnd=25740720
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
____________________________________________________________________________
___________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago suburb
of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff, NBC 5
reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed near Lake
In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field near
Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county
conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and another
person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington. However, a
hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any patients from a
plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing story.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhref="ht
tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
My condolences to the families. Very sad.
The news report (which could be inaccurate) says the plane banked hard left after
takeoff and dove. This sounds somewhat consistent with engine failure as you
would have lots of left rudder in, so when the power stopped (assuming you were
too astonished to take your foot out) you would find yourself turning left.
Looking at the pic of the airplane in the video you can see a large buckle in the
fuse just below the canopy. They must have impacted pretty hard. I wonder if
trees prevented making a safe landing?
RECOMENDED READING: several months back the AOPA had an article on engine failures
during takeoff. The big take away was the stall happens very fast - you are
slow, heavy, and high AOA. To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push
the nose down. The article recommended simulating these emergencies at high altitude
. Apparently in a 172 the stall came in just a few seconds after removing
power. Engine fails, pilot goes "oh S&!t, what just happened?" Right after
he gets past the denial and starts going through the mental check list "nose forward,
fuel, mags, etc, the plane is already in a stall.
Remember - complacancy kills.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132734#132734
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
Steve Fossett is also missing south of Reno in a Citabria. No hits on
an ELT yet according to Fox News.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: viperdoc
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
This is the second fatal A/C crash I have heard of today. One from the
RPA and the other a Bonanza. Not a good day for aviating!
Fly safe and make sure the bird along with yourselves are ready to
aviate!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:16 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
The pilots name was reported this morning by the Chicago Tribune as
Steve Hildebrand. He is a member of RPA.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Schneider
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=172079
5&at1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=2
5000&redirUrl=http://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=
homepage&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/
video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3
Dv%26h1%3DTwo+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUr
l%3Dhttp%3A//www.wgntv.com%26activePane%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepa
ge&rnd=25740720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Yak List
Subject: Yak-List: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
_________________________________________________________________________
______________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest
Chicago suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff,
NBC 5 reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed
near Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field
near Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county
conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and
another person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington.
However, a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any
patients from a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing
story.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhre
f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
Having experienced two engine failures on TO. You are dead on! I highly
recommend 20 or so hours in a glider to round out your flight experience. I
strongly suspect I could have been a mort without it. Fly the airplane first
and manage the emergency second. That means getting the nose down the
heartbeat that all does not appear well. I fly with some nose down trim to
help with that instinct all the time.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Scrivener
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
My condolences to the families. Very sad.
The news report (which could be inaccurate) says the plane banked hard left
after takeoff and dove. This sounds somewhat consistent with engine failure
as you would have lots of left rudder in, so when the power stopped
(assuming you were too astonished to take your foot out) you would find
yourself turning left.
Looking at the pic of the airplane in the video you can see a large buckle
in the fuse just below the canopy. They must have impacted pretty hard. I
wonder if trees prevented making a safe landing?
RECOMENDED READING: several months back the AOPA had an article on engine
failures during takeoff. The big take away was the stall happens very fast -
you are slow, heavy, and high AOA. To avoid the stall you have to
aggressively push the nose down. The article recommended simulating these
emergencies at high altitude . Apparently in a 172 the stall came in just a
few seconds after removing power. Engine fails, pilot goes "oh S&!t, what
just happened?" Right after he gets past the denial and starts going through
the mental check list "nose forward, fuel, mags, etc, the plane is already
in a stall.
Remember - complacancy kills.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132734#132734
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
> To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in deep shit quick
and also eat up some precious altitude! I would rather release some back pressure
(not jam the stick forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start
looking for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your ALT)
if at possible. Turns will kill you!
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of control authority.
I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course! Best money I
have ever spent on training and learned way more than I thought I would!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132750#132750
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
First I would like to offer my condolences to both familes. As Bob Hoover says,
you fly it all the way to the crash...
Lynn
Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net> wrote:
> To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in deep shit quick
and also eat up some precious altitude! I would rather release some back pressure
(not jam the stick forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start
looking for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your ALT)
if at possible. Turns will kill you!
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of control authority.
I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course! Best money I
have ever spent on training and learned way more than I thought I would!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132750#132750
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
Tim,
You are correct for the 50, she will fly at 60 knots but not the 52. At
nearly 1/2 ton more in wt., you need to get the nose down. You cannot make a
180 back to the field in a 52 at or below 700 ft. A 1000 ft is closer to
getting you there. The "deuce" has a glide ratio of a rock! You have to
convert PE to KE by dropping the nose so you have to convert altitude to
airspeed.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
> To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in deep shit
quick and also eat up some precious altitude! I would rather release some
back pressure (not jam the stick forward...remember you can stall at any
speed) and start looking for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD
(depending on your ALT) if at possible. Turns will kill you!
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of control
authority.
I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course! Best
money I have ever spent on training and learned way more than I thought I
would!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132750#132750
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| Subject: | FW: Too hot and too heavy |
The below is a link to the recent Bonanza that augured in. Not pretty and
it shows the stall as well as the ditch the gear caught in flipping her. The
rest of the story has not been published yet.
Doc
Subject: Too hot and too heavy
Gang,
Below is a news video link of a Bonanza departure crash. It is not pretty.
The first part is of interest to us, followed by the usual "grab somebody to
interview" crap. I have not checked the accident report, but it appears to
be a density altitude incident with additional pilot error. Maybe not, but
it still serves as a none-too-gentle reminder. I like all my friends alive.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i-6_1188732892
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
Doc,
Lowering the nose is key...not slamming the stick forward. In a lot of the airplanes
I have flown from jets to props, a slight chnage in AOA will help tons.
A big change in AOA, either way, will normally get you in trouble.
By the way, this discussion has NOTHING to do with what happened in IL...no one
knows yet so I will not even begin to speculate. I too, offer up my prayers to
the family.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132766#132766
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> AVIATION RECORD HOLDER STEVE FOSSETT MISSING
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> Steve Fossett, who was reported missing in his Citabria Super
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>
> Nevada Civil Air Patrol spokeswoman Maj. Cynthia Ryan said three crews
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> A check of neighboring airports apparently came up empty. The aircraft
> Fossett was seen taking off in is blue and white and the terrain in
> the area of the Hilton ranch is rugged and sparsely populated. Fossett
> is best known for his around-the-world flight in a balloon and another
> unrefueled flight in a single-engine jet aircraft. He was in Nevada
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
Tim,
Agreed, we have no idea what happened in IL. But what we do know is enough to remind
us that loss of power on takeoff can be one of the more deadly emergencies.
(This is not to say they lost power, just the accident profile begs the question).
"Aggressively" pushing the nose over was the wording I recalled from the AOPA article
- which was based on a 172. Obviously "aggressive" is a subjective term,
and different aircraft will require different reaction times. However, the point
is airspeed can bleed quickly in this situation, and lowering the nose to
obtain best glide must be done promptly.
Again, my thoughts and prayers are with the families. Hopefully the NTSB report
will shed further light on what went wrong and how others can avoid this fate.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132774#132774
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| Subject: | Re: Too hot and too heavy |
Very sobering video.
Don't think this could happen to you? Well said to say this reminds me of a very
poor takeoff I committed just this Saturday. It was hot, high field elevation
(4900 ft), near max gross, and a direct cross wind. Other factors were the photographer
sitting in the back seat (front right seat empty, making the CG more
aft than normal, but still within limits) and a dip in the runway (that I failed
to account for).
As we rolled down the runway I was shocked to discover becoming airborne too soon
due to the dip. We were too slow to fly, but fast enough for ground effect.
Complicating matters was the cross wind which made the airplane want to crab
immediately. I was caught off guard and allowed a wing to dip dangerously low.
Fortunately the wing did not strike anything and I was able to keep it in ground
effect until we had a safe flying speed. We dodged that bullet and proceeded
to have an uneventful flight. However, the takeoff served as a stern reminder
that takeoffs are serious.
Be careful out there!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132780#132780
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
AOA can be controlled smoothly in most airplanes. In the jet that I fly, when we
do stall in the sim, we do not lower the nose at all..just push the levers up.
In the Extra-300, same thing. Yak-50...same same. These airplanes have some
excess power. A C-172 is a typical GA pig..it needs more power to begin with.
Get to your best glide speed as soon and as SMOOTHLY as you can. Do it to abruptly,
and I think you create a new set of problems. I see new hire FO's horse the
airplane around all the time...big inputs mean big corrections..big corrections
can lead to bigger corrections the opposite way....and it becomes cyclic.
Another tip, is when you fly, look around for places to set her down in and around
the airport in the event the engine takes a nap. The -50 uses little runway
so straight ahead on my field works fine (depending on alit). I now climb out
steeper for altitude that I can trade for AS if I need it. I am trying to keep
my patterns tight and come off the perch at idle. (But idle is NOT the same
as a windmilling prop). I have escape routes in the event something goes wrong.
When you are flying into a new field, look around while you are in the pattern...or
come in a 500 or 1000 feet above pattern ALT and do some airport FAM.
These motors are bullet proof but not immune to simple and fatal failures. Take
care of them and they will take care of you. When they talk to you...listen!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132799#132799
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| Subject: | Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
On Sep 4, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
>
>> To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
>
>
> I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in
> deep shit quick and also eat up some precious altitude! I would
> rather release some back pressure (not jam the stick
> forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start looking
> for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your
> ALT) if at possible. Turns will kill you!
You just have to go out and try it and see what it is really like.
Get some altitude, put the airplane in take-off configuration, and
yank the power. At altitude it is not dangerous and actually
experiencing what the airplane does is about 1,000,000x better than
listening to others tell you about it.
Personally I find that it is very natural to maintain an approximate
AoA when the power goes away. It isn't a push -- it is more of an
"unload". But none of what I say means a thing until you go try it
out yourself.
>
> The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of
> control authority.
Any airplane will fly at any airspeed if you stay under critical AoA.
> I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course!
> Best money I have ever spent on training and learned way more than
> I thought I would!
I agree with this 100%. I would also do a whole spin sequence with a
qualified instructor in type.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Too hot and too heavy |
On Sep 4, 2007, at 2:10 PM, viperdoc wrote:
>
>
> The below is a link to the recent Bonanza that augured in. Not
> pretty and it shows the stall as well as the ditch the gear caught
> in flipping her. The rest of the story has not been published yet.
>
> Doc
>
>
> Subject: Too hot and too heavy
This happened at my airport. The media was there to take pictures of
airplanes because one of those dangerous experimental KitFoxes from
Cameron Park crashed at nearby Placerville earlier in the day. (It
was a bad aviation day at Cameron Park.)
As for the Banana, the bone-head loaded four big, fat guys into the
airplane, loaded up with a couple of cases of water, filled the tanks
and then took off on a 100F day *DOWNWIND*! Even so he probably would
have made it if he kept his head but I suspect that the gently rising
terrain at the N end of the runway (the runway and overrun slope up
there) panicked him and he tried to make the plane climb more
steeply. <sigh> We don't need this kind of help here.
>
>
> Gang,
>
> Below is a news video link of a Bonanza departure crash. It is not
> pretty. The first part is of interest to us, followed by the usual
> "grab somebody to interview" crap. I have not checked the accident
> report, but it appears to be a density altitude incident with
> additional pilot error. Maybe not, but it still serves as a none-
> too-gentle reminder. I like all my friends alive.
>
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i-6_1188732892
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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