Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:21 AM - Re: Snot valve storage (kp)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Snot valve storage (Cliff Coy)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Snot valve storage (Jim Bernier)
4. 09:02 AM - MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
5. 09:30 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Roger Kemp)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 10:18 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
11. 10:53 AM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
12. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
13. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 01:39 PM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Scooter)
15. 02:11 PM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
16. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
19. 05:04 PM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
20. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
21. 05:49 PM - hydro lock (HodgeJW@aol.com)
22. 06:01 PM - Fw: OSH AeirVenture 2008 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
23. 06:04 PM - Any CJ activity in the Detroit area (Blake and Sue Lancaster)
24. 06:09 PM - Re: hydro lock (cjpilot710@aol.com)
25. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (bill wade)
26. 06:13 PM - OSH AirVenture 2008 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
27. 06:17 PM - Re: hydro lock (David McGirt)
28. 06:31 PM - Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Tim Gagnon)
29. 06:51 PM - Cockpit bulbs (John Graham)
30. 06:59 PM - Yak-50 fly-by.... (Tim Gagnon)
31. 07:06 PM - Re: Cockpit bulbs (Doug Sapp)
32. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
33. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Roger Kemp)
34. 07:54 PM - Re: hydro lock (Roger Kemp)
35. 08:13 PM - Re: hydro lock (Roger Kemp)
36. 08:21 PM - Re: Cockpit bulbs (Roger Kemp)
37. 09:24 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
38. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 (Brian Lloyd)
39. 10:05 PM - Re: hydro lock (Shinden33)
40. 11:32 PM - Re: hydro lock (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Snot valve storage |
But will "Spoil your day" if you forget to close in before next flight !
For my 2 cents leave it closed...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Snot valve storage
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Won't hurt a thing.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
> To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:07 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Snot valve storage
>
>
>>
>> When storing my Yak-52 in my hangar, I was told to
>> leave the snot valve open so as to avoid any
>> condensation from remaining trapped in the system. Is
>> this recommended? Will this hurt anything?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John P. Graham
>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not
>> web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Snot valve storage |
The only condensation you could drain out would come from 6' of pipe
from the compressor to the pop-off valve. So leaving the drain open
doesn't make a lot of sense.
Cheers,
Cliff
John Graham wrote:
>
>When storing my Yak-52 in my hangar, I was told to
>leave the snot valve open so as to avoid any
>condensation from remaining trapped in the system. Is
>this recommended? Will this hurt anything?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John P. Graham
>CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>
>
>
>Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
>that gives answers, not web links.
>http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Snot valve storage |
Won't hurt a thing.
I leave mine open and flag it, just as I do with the pitot tube and oil
cooler intake. Remove flag and close valve.
The constant change in atmospheric pressure keeps the snot bottle empty
and the air dryer clean of snot. At one time I didn't have a flag for the
pitot cover and forgot it. With the flag, I have never forgot to take the
cover off or close the valve.
A tip on the air dryer. My dryer had just started to oxidize. I cleaned it
with a Dremmel tool and coated the inside with JB Weld. Problem gone.
Stainless is better, but when on a budget simple is good.
Jim B
>>> "kp" <pilko2@btinternet.com> 9/13/2007 2:21 AM >>>
But will "Spoil your day" if you forget to close in before next flight !
For my 2 cents leave it closed...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Snot valve storage
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Won't hurt a thing.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
> To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 7:07 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Snot valve storage
>
>
>>
>> When storing my Yak-52 in my hangar, I was told to
>> leave the snot valve open so as to avoid any
>> condensation from remaining trapped in the system. Is
>> this recommended? Will this hurt anything?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John P. Graham
>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers,
not
>> web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
I was having some problems with my air system and found a leak on my right gear
actuator. Both were sent for overhaul and the right cap was found to have had
a crack in the cap. Not the first time this had been found either. There was
JB weld on it....wonder where that came from??
Anyway, I had two new caps machined by the fine folks in Phoenix and got the actuators
back. They came back tested, were installed, leak tested, gear was swung,
and nothing was found. Good stuff.
Fire up the airplane, take off, put the gear up and I use about 20+ ATM and they
go up a bit slower than normal. In the past, you knew they came up and when
they went down. Now, they take what seems an eternity and have (a few times) taken
some help for some +/- G's to get them to lock.
I had to make a major change to the system when my primary bottle went TU. I had
to use a -52 main which is 11 liters compared to six liters on the -50. It also
had to be mounted aft of my seat instead of the aft side of the firewall.
Before the bottle issue, the gear would swing nicely. There are no leaks around
the bottle. The compressor does a nice job of refilling the system.
I am no engineer but I am getting very frustrated. Should I look somewhere else
for a leak? Could this be the larger bottle causing problems. Bad seals in the
actuators?
I am at a loss...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134218#134218
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Tim,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
>
> I was having some problems with my air system and found a leak on my right
> gear actuator. Both were sent for overhaul and the right cap was found to
> have had a crack in the cap. Not the first time this had been found
> either. There was JB weld on it....wonder where that came from??
>
> Anyway, I had two new caps machined by the fine folks in Phoenix and got
> the actuators back. They came back tested, were installed, leak tested,
> gear was swung, and nothing was found. Good stuff.
>
> Fire up the airplane, take off, put the gear up and I use about 20+ ATM
> and they go up a bit slower than normal. In the past, you knew they came
> up and when they went down. Now, they take what seems an eternity and have
> (a few times) taken some help for some +/- G's to get them to lock.
>
> I had to make a major change to the system when my primary bottle went TU.
> I had to use a -52 main which is 11 liters compared to six liters on
> the -50. It also had to be mounted aft of my seat instead of the aft side
> of the firewall. Before the bottle issue, the gear would swing nicely.
> There are no leaks around the bottle. The compressor does a nice job of
> refilling the system.
>
> I am no engineer but I am getting very frustrated. Should I look somewhere
> else for a leak? Could this be the larger bottle causing problems. Bad
> seals in the actuators?
>
> I am at a loss...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134218#134218
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Neither am I, Tim. Time to put it back on the jacks and swing the gear
again. It may be as simple as a crush washer or as major as a leak in one of
your air lines. What is the pressure in the system at the time you drop the
gear. At least on the jacks you can listen for air escaping from the system.
A ultrasonic air leak testor would help a bunch in tracking down a leak in
the lines or the fittings.
My 2 cents,
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Yak-List: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
I was having some problems with my air system and found a leak on my right
gear actuator. Both were sent for overhaul and the right cap was found to
have had a crack in the cap. Not the first time this had been found either.
There was JB weld on it....wonder where that came from??
Anyway, I had two new caps machined by the fine folks in Phoenix and got the
actuators back. They came back tested, were installed, leak tested, gear was
swung, and nothing was found. Good stuff.
Fire up the airplane, take off, put the gear up and I use about 20+ ATM and
they go up a bit slower than normal. In the past, you knew they came up and
when they went down. Now, they take what seems an eternity and have (a few
times) taken some help for some +/- G's to get them to lock.
I had to make a major change to the system when my primary bottle went TU. I
had to use a -52 main which is 11 liters compared to six liters on the -50.
It also had to be mounted aft of my seat instead of the aft side of the
firewall. Before the bottle issue, the gear would swing nicely. There are no
leaks around the bottle. The compressor does a nice job of refilling the
system.
I am no engineer but I am getting very frustrated. Should I look somewhere
else for a leak? Could this be the larger bottle causing problems. Bad seals
in the actuators?
I am at a loss...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134218#134218
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Tim,
Why not put the airplane back on the jacks and do another gear retraction
test to see if there is a leak somewhere. You said all was normal right
after overhauling the actuators and doing the gear retraction test. Then
after you flew it, the gear used up 20+ ATM during retraction in flight.
That is definitely abnormal. I suspect there is a leak around the seals in
one or both of the overhauled actuators or one of the flexible hoses going
to the UP side of the actuator is either loose or split.
If an actuator is leaking around the internal seals, the air will exhaust
for a long period of time through the gear handle. You typically can't hear
that in flight. But I'll bet you can on the ground. Normal operation
should use about 5-7 ATM's to retract the gear.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
>
> I was having some problems with my air system and found a leak on my right
> gear actuator. Both were sent for overhaul and the right cap was found to
> have had a crack in the cap. Not the first time this had been found
> either. There was JB weld on it....wonder where that came from??
>
> Anyway, I had two new caps machined by the fine folks in Phoenix and got
> the actuators back. They came back tested, were installed, leak tested,
> gear was swung, and nothing was found. Good stuff.
>
> Fire up the airplane, take off, put the gear up and I use about 20+ ATM
> and they go up a bit slower than normal. In the past, you knew they came
> up and when they went down. Now, they take what seems an eternity and have
> (a few times) taken some help for some +/- G's to get them to lock.
>
> I had to make a major change to the system when my primary bottle went TU.
> I had to use a -52 main which is 11 liters compared to six liters on
> the -50. It also had to be mounted aft of my seat instead of the aft side
> of the firewall. Before the bottle issue, the gear would swing nicely.
> There are no leaks around the bottle. The compressor does a nice job of
> refilling the system.
>
> I am no engineer but I am getting very frustrated. Should I look somewhere
> else for a leak? Could this be the larger bottle causing problems. Bad
> seals in the actuators?
>
> I am at a loss...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134218#134218
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Tim,
Another thought. Did you know the internal condition of the 52 air tank you
installed in your airplane? If there was any junk, rust or corrosion inside
that air tank and it exited the tank after the first couple of uses, that
could have easily caused one of the seals in an actuator to go T.U.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Tim,
> Why not put the airplane back on the jacks and do another gear retraction
> test to see if there is a leak somewhere. You said all was normal right
> after overhauling the actuators and doing the gear retraction test. Then
> after you flew it, the gear used up 20+ ATM during retraction in flight.
> That is definitely abnormal. I suspect there is a leak around the seals
> in one or both of the overhauled actuators or one of the flexible hoses
> going to the UP side of the actuator is either loose or split.
>
> If an actuator is leaking around the internal seals, the air will exhaust
> for a long period of time through the gear handle. You typically can't
> hear that in flight. But I'll bet you can on the ground. Normal
> operation should use about 5-7 ATM's to retract the gear.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:01 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
>
>
>>
>> I was having some problems with my air system and found a leak on my
>> right gear actuator. Both were sent for overhaul and the right cap was
>> found to have had a crack in the cap. Not the first time this had been
>> found either. There was JB weld on it....wonder where that came from??
>>
>> Anyway, I had two new caps machined by the fine folks in Phoenix and got
>> the actuators back. They came back tested, were installed, leak tested,
>> gear was swung, and nothing was found. Good stuff.
>>
>> Fire up the airplane, take off, put the gear up and I use about 20+ ATM
>> and they go up a bit slower than normal. In the past, you knew they came
>> up and when they went down. Now, they take what seems an eternity and
>> have (a few times) taken some help for some +/- G's to get them to lock.
>>
>> I had to make a major change to the system when my primary bottle went
>> TU. I had to use a -52 main which is 11 liters compared to six liters on
>> the -50. It also had to be mounted aft of my seat instead of the aft side
>> of the firewall. Before the bottle issue, the gear would swing nicely.
>> There are no leaks around the bottle. The compressor does a nice job of
>> refilling the system.
>>
>> I am no engineer but I am getting very frustrated. Should I look
>> somewhere else for a leak? Could this be the larger bottle causing
>> problems. Bad seals in the actuators?
>>
>> I am at a loss...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134218#134218
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 9:38 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Normal operation should use about 5-7 ATM's to retract the gear.
And if he has replaced the -50 tank with a tank from a -52 the
pressure drop will be even less as there is more volume in the system.
Hmm, if something blocked access to the tank then system volume would
be really low and the volume change in the actuators would make for a
big pressure drop.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Brian,
Can you break that down...I think I know what you are saying...but!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134237#134237
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
The problem exist extending AND retracting the gear.
System pressure of about 35-45 ATM before takeoff. Gear retraction, I lose about
20 ATM. Compressor works as advertised and hits the 50 mark pretty quickly.
Time to drop the gear, system pressure of 50 ATM or so. Handle down, again, big
drop in pressure. So the pressure drop is both up and down.
The bottle came from Steve Culp...I assume it was unused or nearly so. It was NOT
out of another airplane....to the best of my knowledge.
Like I said before, all was well UNTIL my primary bottle died. The gear would come
up and go down with a nice thud. New bigger bottle, slow gear and pressure
drop. Are there some physics involved here?
Thanks for all your input. I will check what you guys have mentioned...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134239#134239
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> Can you break that down...I think I know what you are saying...but!
The system has volume to hold all the air. Every line, hose, and
valve has a small but finite volume. All that taken together is the
volume of the system with the exception of the storage tank.
Typically the volume of the storage tank is several times that of the
rest of the system.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that the volume of the
system exclusive of the storage tank is 1/2L and that the volume
change of the actuators is 1/2L. If the storage tanks was somehow cut
off from the rest of the system then extending or retracting the gear
would cause a temporary doubling of the volume so that pressure drop
would be 1/2 of the total pressure. That would easily explain a huge
pressure change. Also, the pressure change would slow down the rate
of extension or retraction. Eventually you get down to the point
where the compressor (slowly) makes up for the difference.
So I would check the lines, valves, and check-valves going to the
storage tank as well. If something somehow blocked the path from the
rest of the system to/from the storage tank you would see the
symptoms you are describing.
OTOH, leaky seals are a more likely explanation. The other advice you
have received is good and you should act on that too.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Your additional wording in answer to Brian's comments allows me to agree
completely with what Brian was telling you Tim.
The big clue is when you said that there is a 20 ATM drop in pressure
and then you said: "The compressor works as advertised and hits the 50
ATM mark pretty quickly."
Here's the reason:
There is no stock compressor on a M-14 that makes up that kind of loss
quickly. Just does not happen. Of course I am guessing by quickly,
that you mean a few minutes or even less. That indicates that you have
a VOLUME issue and not a PRESSURE issue. Bear with me here.
Just think what would happen if you had a perfectly working system, and
then put a RESTRICTION IN THE LINE between the bottle and the gear
handle. Remember too that just like in electronics, if there is no
current flow, there is no drop in voltage. Same with this. If you have
no movement of air in the system, even with a HUGE restriction in the
line, the pressure will be the same everywhere along the line. UNTIL
you raise or lower the gear, and THEN you have MOVEMENT.
At that point, (gear going up or going down) you will need the FLOW of
air to make things happen. If there is a big restriction in the line,
the pressure will drop quickly, because the restriction keeps the air
being able to flow through the line in order to make up for the loss in
pressure. Thus like Brian said, you have a air VOLUME issue. Once the
gear is either fully down or fully up, the flow of air is greatly
reduced, and the pressure will then build rather rapidly because it is
still IN THE TANK and is not having to be built back up by the
compressor, it just has to make it past the restriction and
re-pressurize the air lines and fittings.
Since the gage in the 50 is connected right next to the landing gear
handle, and since the behavior of the landing gear is being mirrored by
the indications on the pressure gage, this gives solid basis for
pointing to an area from the bottle TO the pressure gage // gear handle.
Since this problem started right after you added the new bottle, then
the logical place to look is from the bottle outlet itself, to the lines
running to where they attach to the OLD lines.
The simple answer: You don't have a leak. You have a restriction in
one of the air lines going from the bottle TO the cockpit gage // gear
handle area.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 13:53
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
The problem exist extending AND retracting the gear.
System pressure of about 35-45 ATM before takeoff. Gear retraction, I
lose about 20 ATM. Compressor works as advertised and hits the 50 mark
pretty quickly. Time to drop the gear, system pressure of 50 ATM or so.
Handle down, again, big drop in pressure. So the pressure drop is both
up and down.
The bottle came from Steve Culp...I assume it was unused or nearly so.
It was NOT out of another airplane....to the best of my knowledge.
Like I said before, all was well UNTIL my primary bottle died. The gear
would come up and go down with a nice thud. New bigger bottle, slow gear
and pressure drop. Are there some physics involved here?
Thanks for all your input. I will check what you guys have mentioned...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134239#134239
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
If I follow the logic here correctly then you could check for either a leak or
a restriction by cycling the gear on the ground. Put it up, verify the 20 drop
on the gauge then if the pressure slowly creeps up to where it normally would
be then you have a restriction.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134263#134263
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Anyone have a schematic for the -50 air system or does one even exist?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134265#134265
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Got one in my head Tim!
Suggestion: Go get a high pressure bottle... Scuba, nitrogen, whatever
you can lay your hands on. Put aircraft on jacks. Hook bottle up right
at the blow off pressure relief valve on the left side above snot valve.
Adjust pressure to just where the pop-off valve starts to vent pressure.
Check your landing gear operation. Speed, force, etc. Then hook it
back to the original aircraft tank (your new one). See if there is a
difference. My bet is that you will see a HUGE change. With the
external bottle it will work as it used to.
Move the external pressure source back towards your new bottle one step
at a time to find the restriction.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 17:11
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
Anyone have a schematic for the -50 air system or does one even exist?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134265#134265
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
That is absolutely correct. However, if the engine is not running
(which it will not be on jacks), then if there is a restriction, the
pressure should drop dramatically when the gear is cycled, the gear will
move more slowly than normal, the pressure gage will reach a LOW READING
and then once the gear has stopped moving, THE PRESSURE GAGE WILL
INCREASE BY SOME DEGREE. It will not go all the way back to where it
was of course, air has been used. However, if it goes to a low point,
then the gear stops moving, and then it creeps back up to a higher
value, there is no question ... There is a restriction.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scooter
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 16:39
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
If I follow the logic here correctly then you could check for either a
leak or a restriction by cycling the gear on the ground. Put it up,
verify the 20 drop on the gauge then if the pressure slowly creeps up to
where it normally would be then you have a restriction.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134263#134263
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
> Like I said before, all was well UNTIL my primary bottle died. The
> gear would come up and go down with a nice thud. New bigger bottle,
> slow gear and pressure drop. Are there some physics involved here?
Look for crud blocking the line to the bottle and keeping it from
feeding air to the rest of the system.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Let me ask this..would a smaller diameter line than original cause enough a restriction
to explain the problems I am having.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134285#134285
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
In a message dated 9/13/2007 6:38:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
brian-1927@lloyd.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd _brian-1927@lloyd.com_
(mailto:brian-1927@lloyd.com)
Perhaps one of the flow restrictors (that keep the gear from slamming up) i
n
the lines at the "B" nut, has gotten crap on it or corroded up.
Pappy
On Sep 13, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
> Like I said before, all was well UNTIL my primary bottle died. The
> gear would come up and go down with a nice thud. New bigger bottle,
> slow gear and pressure drop. Are there some physics involved here?
Look for crud blocking the line to the bottle and keeping it from
feeding air to the rest of the system.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
=94 Antoine de Saint-Exup=C3=A9ry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 21
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Hey Guys,
I was flying friends Yak 50 today (Tim G). I parked it for about 15 min.
when I went back to start it, I debated about whether to pull the prop thru or
not. I mean it was only 15 min. right? I only pull my 52 thru first flight of
the day. Well good thing I did, it was locked SOLID. Pulled the cowls, and
bottom plugs, and you wouldn't believe the amount of oil that came out. From
now on, if I walk away from it, I'll pull it thru. On another note, man will a
50 tumble!!!! Damn, I love that plane. Here lately I've been flying some
hotrods (Pitts S2C Suk 29 Extra 300) but this 50 has some serious personality.
I
cant thank Tim enough for letting me have access to this beast. Thanks man.
Jay
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| Subject: | Fwd: OSH AeirVenture 2008 |
-----------------------------1189648789--
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| Subject: | Any CJ activity in the Detroit area |
I'm looking at various airplanes with an eye to buying something like a CJ
or Yak or something in that category. Are there any of them based in SE
Michigan? I'm also looking for a mechanic that could do pre-buys on these
airplanes.
Any help would be welcome.
Message 24
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Why is it, these -50 and TWs seem to have "oil events"? At OSH this year, I
notice you could tell where a TW or 50 had been parked. A huge oil stain on
the grass where these guys pulled their props though before starting. Its
seen the straight 52s don't have that habit or at least not as bad. Of course
my CJ with it's M-14p does not seem to do nasty things like that. Smirk-
smirk - ;>}
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Hi Tim you mentioned that the actuators were rebuilt also, what if the rubber seals
were put on the piston backwards? it would be a simple mistake and allow
the air to bypass the first seal and go to the second seal I think at the point
of almost lock up or down it would back bleed to the other line. The fix would
probably require that the actuators come back out and be taken apart but I
think its a possibility. Good luck
Let me ask this..would a smaller diameter line than original cause enough a restriction
to explain the problems I am having.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134285#134285
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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| Subject: | OSH AirVenture 2008 |
Troops,
50 year anniversaries only come once.
Next year is RPA's first big 50 celebration year. The CJ-6 celebrates its
50th year since it's first flight (August 28, 1958).
The committee has been looking at ideas and some sponsors have already
stepped forward.
What we need now is to know how many folks - you - are going to show up. We
don't need to know the exact number but just how many of you have the
inclination about coming.
We are looking for 50 CJ's and as many Yaks guys who want to celebrate too.
We are planning a number of events at OSH. One big week long party. CJ-6s
doing acro (first time ever) during the WB part of the show! Group rates. Plus
a number of special items that formation pilots and other participants will
receive that mark this significant event ONLY IF YOU ARE THERE. AND IT WILL
NOT BE GOTTEN ANYWHERE ELSE EVER AGAIN.
So to give us an idea if you're really interested. The further ahead we can
figure the numbers the better we can plan our sponsor's resources. Also
EAA AirVenture planning meetings start the first of November. I need these
numbers to show what kind of commitment we have from you, our members, so they
can see how important our requests are. We need this also to show perspective
sponsors.
We are trying to keep the costs to you, down. It will not be zero, but it
will be worth the trip.
Start planning to attend this event next year. Get your formation stuff
up-to-date. If you're not formation rated yet - get cracking-chop-chop!
Go to the RPA web site. _http://www.flyredstar.org/_
(http://www.flyredstar.org/) and than go to the Fly-Ins section and sign-up.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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Solved my problem with a oil scavenger pump, but it is valid point..
Something about sitting at that angle ( tail dragger ) seems to be part of
the =B3feature=B2
On 9/13/07 9:09 PM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> Why is it, these -50 and TWs seem to have "oil events"? At OSH this year
, I
> notice you could tell where a TW or 50 had been parked. A huge oil stain
on
> the grass where these guys pulled their props though before starting. It
s
> seen the straight 52s don't have that habit or at least not as bad. Of c
ourse
> my CJ with it's M-14p does not seem to do nasty things like that. Smirk-
smirk
> - ;>}
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
> Se69" target="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
>
> Hi Tim you mentioned that the actuators were rebuilt also, what if the rubber
seals were put on the piston backwards? it would be a simple mistake and allow
the air to bypass the first seal and go to the second seal I think at the point
of almost lock up or down it would back bleed to the other line. The fix would
probably require that the actuators come back out and be taken apart but
I think its a possibility. Good luck
They were shipped to someone who does quite a few overhauls. That is not to say
that this could not happen....if I had done them....we would more than likely
be talking about a gear up accident. Thanks for that thought though...now I
really will not sleep!!! ;)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134305#134305
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May I ask for a reference as to where I might procure
some extra cockpit bulbs?
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
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| Subject: | Yak-50 fly-by.... |
This airplane looks very familiar......I think I know whose it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7bl9AeS00Q
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134310#134310
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit bulbs |
John,
Don't know what your driving but I carry all bulbs (in the cockpit and
on the airframe) for the CJ.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Graham wrote:
>
>May I ask for a reference as to where I might procure
>some extra cockpit bulbs?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John P. Graham
>CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>
>
>Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
>http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 5:03 PM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> Let me ask this..would a smaller diameter line than original cause
> enough a restriction to explain the problems I am having.
Probably not. It would take a restriction that takes the line down to
something like a pinhole to really cause a problem. OTOH, if you made
a new flex line you might have cut a flap in the rubber interior that
could block the line. The flap of rubber could potentially function
as a one-way valve.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
Answer...quit possible. This being based on Bernolli's principle. A small
line introduces a venture effect. There will be a drop in pressure at the
point that the smaller line is connected to the larger line. There is an
increase in pressure at the point of constriction with resistance to flow.
At the point of dilation past the point of constriction there is a drop in
pressure with a decrease in flow. The pressure will be lower in the system
past the point of restriction. The density of air is also a factor too, but
for this agreement you can assume that number is constant.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50
Let me ask this..would a smaller diameter line than original cause enough a
restriction to explain the problems I am having.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134285#134285
Message 34
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Jay,
I had a similar experience. I even had the intake drain open and got a loc.
Rocked the prop a couple of times and it cleared. I to pull blades each and
every time before flying he 50. I think it has to do with the fact that
those intake tubes are sitting on an incline of 15 degrees vs the 52 with it
intakes being pretty much parallel to the ground. Even with the 52 if she
has sat for a few minutes I will pull a minimum of 8 blades.
She does have a serious personality!
My 2 cents.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HodgeJW@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Yak-List: hydro lock
Hey Guys,
I was flying friends Yak 50 today (Tim G). I parked it for about 15 min.
when I went back to start it, I debated about whether to pull the prop thru
or not. I mean it was only 15 min. right? I only pull my 52 thru first
flight of the day. Well good thing I did, it was locked SOLID. Pulled the
cowls, and bottom plugs, and you wouldn't believe the amount of oil that
came out. From now on, if I walk away from it, I'll pull it thru. On another
note, man will a 50 tumble!!!! Damn, I love that plane. Here lately I've
been flying some hotrods (Pitts S2C Suk 29 Extra 300) but this 50 has some
serious personality. I cant thank Tim enough for letting me have access to
this beast. Thanks man.
Jay
_____
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 35
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It's all in the angle of the dangle!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: hydro lock
Why is it, these -50 and TWs seem to have "oil events"? At OSH this year, I
notice you could tell where a TW or 50 had been parked. A huge oil stain on
the grass where these guys pulled their props though before starting. Its
seen the straight 52s don't have that habit or at least not as bad. Of
course my CJ with it's M-14p does not seem to do nasty things like that.
Smirk- smirk - ;>}
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
_____
Se69" target="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 36
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Gill Hayes at M14. 928-681-4400. A small piece of trivia for the 50 drivers.
Did you know that the 28 v instrument panel bulbs use in fire trucks can be
used to replace the burnt out gear actuator lights? I found mine at Auto
Zone.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Graham
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Cockpit bulbs
May I ask for a reference as to where I might procure
some extra cockpit bulbs?
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 7:44 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Answer...quit possible. This being based on Bernolli's principle. A
> small
> line introduces a venture effect. There will be a drop in pressure
> at the
> point that the smaller line is connected to the larger line. There
> is an
> increase in pressure at the point of constriction with resistance
> to flow.
> At the point of dilation past the point of constriction there is a
> drop in
> pressure with a decrease in flow. The pressure will be lower in the
> system
> past the point of restriction. The density of air is also a factor
> too, but
> for this agreement you can assume that number is constant.
<sigh> There is no venturi effect. It is a simple restriction.
Pressure is higher on the upstream side and lower on the downstream
side. Flow is limited by the restriction and nothing else ... if
there is indeed a restriction.
Time for Time to go look. Nothing else means a thing at this point.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: MF'ing air system! Yak-50 |
On Sep 13, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2007, at 7:44 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Answer...quit possible. This being based on Bernolli's principle.
>> A small
>> line introduces a venture effect. There will be a drop in pressure
>> at the
>> point that the smaller line is connected to the larger line. There
>> is an
>> increase in pressure at the point of constriction with resistance
>> to flow.
>> At the point of dilation past the point of constriction there is a
>> drop in
>> pressure with a decrease in flow. The pressure will be lower in
>> the system
>> past the point of restriction. The density of air is also a factor
>> too, but
>> for this agreement you can assume that number is constant.
>
> <sigh> There is no venturi effect. It is a simple restriction.
> Pressure is higher on the upstream side and lower on the downstream
> side. Flow is limited by the restriction and nothing else ... if
> there is indeed a restriction.
>
> Time for Time to go look. Nothing else means a thing at this point.
I wish I could type. That was supposed to read, "Time for Tim to go
look."
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 39
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I concure. I always pull my '52 through before starting no matter how long
since it ran. The time is well worth it considering the possible
consequences.
Scott
N8252
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:53 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: hydro lock
Jay,
I had a similar experience. I even had the intake drain open and got a
loc. Rocked the prop a couple of times and it cleared. I to pull blades
each and every time before flying he 50. I think it has to do with the fact
that those intake tubes are sitting on an incline of 15 degrees vs the 52
with it intakes being pretty much parallel to the ground. Even with the 52
if she has sat for a few minutes I will pull a minimum of 8 blades.
She does have a serious personality!
My 2 cents.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HodgeJW@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 7:49 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: hydro lock
Hey Guys,
I was flying friends Yak 50 today (Tim G). I parked it for about 15 min.
when I went back to start it, I debated about whether to pull the prop thru
or not. I mean it was only 15 min. right? I only pull my 52 thru first
flight of the day. Well good thing I did, it was locked SOLID. Pulled the
cowls, and bottom plugs, and you wouldn't believe the amount of oil that
came out. From now on, if I walk away from it, I'll pull it thru. On another
note, man will a 50 tumble!!!! Damn, I love that plane. Here lately I've
been flying some hotrods (Pitts S2C Suk 29 Extra 300) but this 50 has some
serious personality. I cant thank Tim enough for letting me have access to
this beast. Thanks man.
Jay
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Message 40
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Me too, I always have to pull the prop, whereas my friends with their 52's
have less oil coming out AFTER flying. AND I do the scavenging as it should
be done. AND I'm quite certain that my engine is in as good a shape as
theirs. Maybe it's a coincidence. There are not enough YK50's to have
significant statistical data :-)
Jan
RA2005K YK50
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: vrijdag 14 september 2007 3:17
Subject: Re: Yak-List: hydro lock
Solved my problem with a oil scavenger pump, but it is valid point..
Something about sitting at that angle ( tail dragger ) seems to be part of
the "feature"
On 9/13/07 9:09 PM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
Why is it, these -50 and TWs seem to have "oil events"? At OSH this year, I
notice you could tell where a TW or 50 had been parked. A huge oil stain on
the grass where these guys pulled their props though before starting. Its
seen the straight 52s don't have that habit or at least not as bad. Of
course my CJ with it's M-14p does not seem to do nasty things like that.
Smirk- smirk - ;>}
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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