Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: Yak (Jerry Painter)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted (Tim Gagnon)
3. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted (ONTHEGOSA@aol.com)
4. 11:19 AM - Re: Flap storage (Brian Lloyd)
5. 12:10 PM - Re: Flap storage (Jorgen Nielsen)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: Flap storage (Bill Tally)
7. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and Flight (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 05:20 PM - Yak-50 pneumatic system and nothing to do with Bernoulli. (Brian Lloyd)
9. 05:40 PM - Re: Yak-50 pneumatic system and nothing to do with Bernoulli. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 06:12 PM - Re: yak18T project (Joe Howse)
11. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Flap storage (Walter Lannon)
12. 06:18 PM - Re: yak18T project (Chanock Richka)
13. 07:28 PM - Re: Flap storage (Bill Tally)
14. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Flap storage (Chanock Richka)
15. 08:12 PM - Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted (Tim Gagnon)
16. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: Flap storage (Walter Lannon)
17. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and Flight (Jon Boede)
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted |
Check with Steve Culp, I got one from him. If he does not have one right now and
you are stuck, I have one that you can borrow to get you back airborne. It is
nice to have as a spare so I am not interested in selling it.
Hope that helps...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136307#136307
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted |
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the offer! I've been trying to call Steve but can only leave
messages for now.
Scott
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
On Sep 24, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Hans Oortman 1 wrote:
> John. Ref Pappys comment:
>
>
> Especially the bold part by looking at it is important.I knowI
> found out the hard way
It is funny how so many people have made the same mistake of thinking
they are raising the flaps and instead raise the gear. You would
think that, since there are nowhere near each other, this failure
mode would be infrequent but for some reason it is not. The best
insurance is to ensure that you slide the gear-lock slide in place as
soon as you place the gear lever in the down position regardless of
the reason.
(I *KNOW* that religious use of the gear slide-lock *WILL* save your
airplane's belly. Please do not ask me how I know this.)
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 5
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My buddy and I hangar together (2 x Yak52) - we have a standing arrangement
that if ever we see the gear slide lock not engaged, a case of beer is
purchased by the culprit...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: 25 September 2007 08:17 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flap storage
On Sep 24, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Hans Oortman 1 wrote:
> John. Ref Pappys comment:
>
>
> Especially the bold part by looking at it is important.I knowI
> found out the hard way
It is funny how so many people have made the same mistake of thinking
they are raising the flaps and instead raise the gear. You would
think that, since there are nowhere near each other, this failure
mode would be infrequent but for some reason it is not. The best
insurance is to ensure that you slide the gear-lock slide in place as
soon as you place the gear lever in the down position regardless of
the reason.
(I *KNOW* that religious use of the gear slide-lock *WILL* save your
airplane's belly. Please do not ask me how I know this.)
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
I have to agree with Dennis on this one. The flaps come down very forcefully.
(And this is true despite the presence of orfices in each connection to the shuttle
valves mounted on the flap actuator.) Having some opposing pressure in
the actuating cylinder helps mitigate that.
Also, I would think that there might be some value in maintaining pressure to keep
the flaps locked in the up position. There are ball locks inside the actuator
to do that, but it seems to me that they will do their job better when the
chuck is under pressure, forcing the balls into the groove. (Of course nobody
is going to do any tail slides anyway, right? )
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136403#136403
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and Flight |
Tim take note: Downstream leaks that are not apparent on the deck means
that they are happening only when putting the gear handle up right?
Keep in mind that you can take the landing gear handle on the 50 and
after raising the gear, move it back down to the MIDDLE POSITION. This
will totally isolate the landing gear from the air system. After doing
that, take a look at how fast your air gage gains pressure and holds it.
If there is a difference, then there is probably a up side only leak.
This is a much different test than just shutting off your air tank
itself. EVERY Yak-50 will see a rapid increase in pressure once you
shut off the air tank simply because you are just filling the lines
themselves and not a tank any longer. I ferried a YAK-50 to California
using this method, so it works... Perfectly.
ONE WARNING. You MUST move the handle back to the UP POSITION before
then putting it back to the DOWN position to lower the gear. If you
fail to do this, the landing gear is going to come down a lot faster
than you've ever seen, and with possible damage.
Another factor here... In flight once stabilized, if you put the landing
gear handle in the middle and then come back to the UP position and you
lose a bunch of air immediately, this is again an indication of an UP
side leak.
It is entirely possible to have a one way leak on a YAK-50 actuator.
Of course, if it were me, that aircraft would have been jacked and
cycled 5 times by now. What's the hold up?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann, CFI
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 21:36
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and
Flight
--> <capav8r@gmail.com>
My vote is for a downstream leak. With main off, tank fills to 55
easily. With main open, in flight, etc, can only get to 40 so
compressor is working but can't keep up with the leaking air to get tank
to 55. 40 is enough to move gear but excessive loss of pressure is from
a leak when you are moving more air through the system by activating the
gear (leak plus air needed to move gear).
BTW, Tim says emergency air pressure is rock solid at 60.
Does this make sense to Mark and others?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136239#136239
Message 8
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| Subject: | Yak-50 pneumatic system and nothing to do with Bernoulli. |
On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> It is entirely possible to have a one way leak on a YAK-50 actuator.
>
> Of course, if it were me, that aircraft would have been jacked and
> cycled 5 times by now. What's the hold up?
Additional comments:
If you are looking for both behavior and leaks, jack up the airplane,
remove the air line from the compressor, and feed it from a
compressed gas source like a separate air/N2 bottle. That way you can
pressurize the system to a known value, shut off the source, and put
the gear down or up. This will let you see just how much pressure is
used in each mode starting from a known value. (If you know the
volume change in the actuators you can even figure out ahead of time
what it should be -- after you calculate the overall system volume.)
In addition you can leave the gear or flap handle in any position and
see how fast the system leaks down with the respective handle in the
up, neutral (isolated), and down positions. That will let you find
where you have leak(s).
All you need is an adaptor from your scuba or N2 bottle to the input
of your snot valve.
In some of the aircraft you can use the ground refill port but
remember that the CJ6A and (I think -- not sure) the Yak-50 refill
the emergency system from the ground fill port. The Yak-52 may refill
the emergency side from the ground fill port too but I know it
doesn't refill the emergency system from the compressor. Verify this
and then decide if you want to pressurize the system from the ground-
fill port or by breaking the line from the compressor.
This will get you a lot more information than anything more we are
going to say here.
BTW, if you have a small tank of known volume and pressure, you can
connect it to the system and let the pressures equalize. From that
you can calculate the volume of the rest of the system, e.g. P1*V1 =
P2 * (V1 + V2). You know P1 and V1 from your small tank. You measure
P2 (new pressure). Solve for V2. (Don't forget to use absolute
pressure, not gauge pressure.)
If we knew all this stuff ahead of time, we could use the numbers as
a pneumatic system "health-o-meter".
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 9
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| Subject: | Yak-50 pneumatic system and nothing to do with Bernoulli. |
Of course you can also just turn on the air and listen for a hissing noise.
HEH HEH..... :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 20:19
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-50 pneumatic system and nothing to do with Bernoulli.
On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> It is entirely possible to have a one way leak on a YAK-50 actuator.
>
> Of course, if it were me, that aircraft would have been jacked and
> cycled 5 times by now. What's the hold up?
Additional comments:
If you are looking for both behavior and leaks, jack up the airplane, remove the
air line from the compressor, and feed it from a compressed gas source like
a separate air/N2 bottle. That way you can pressurize the system to a known value,
shut off the source, and put the gear down or up. This will let you see just
how much pressure is used in each mode starting from a known value. (If you
know the volume change in the actuators you can even figure out ahead of time
what it should be -- after you calculate the overall system volume.)
In addition you can leave the gear or flap handle in any position and see how fast
the system leaks down with the respective handle in the up, neutral (isolated),
and down positions. That will let you find where you have leak(s).
All you need is an adaptor from your scuba or N2 bottle to the input of your snot
valve.
In some of the aircraft you can use the ground refill port but remember that the
CJ6A and (I think -- not sure) the Yak-50 refill the emergency system from the
ground fill port. The Yak-52 may refill the emergency side from the ground
fill port too but I know it doesn't refill the emergency system from the compressor.
Verify this and then decide if you want to pressurize the system from the
ground- fill port or by breaking the line from the compressor.
This will get you a lot more information than anything more we are going to say
here.
BTW, if you have a small tank of known volume and pressure, you can connect it
to the system and let the pressures equalize. From that you can calculate the
volume of the rest of the system, e.g. P1*V1
P2 * (V1 + V2). You know P1 and V1 from your small tank. You measure
P2 (new pressure). Solve for V2. (Don't forget to use absolute pressure, not gauge
pressure.)
If we knew all this stuff ahead of time, we could use the numbers as a pneumatic
system "health-o-meter".
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: yak18T project |
Chanock
Yes, I could send direct to you.
Joe Howse
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak18T project
HI Joe;
Do you have some photos?????????
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:14:30 -0700
From: joeh@shaw.ca
Subject: Yak-List: yak18T project
To: yak-list@matronics.com
yak18T project for sale, any interest?
Joe for details
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Gear up for Halo=AE 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It=92s our way
of saying thanks for using Windows Live=99. Get it now!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
I too agree with Dennis regarding flap handle position. I see no advantage
in moving to the center after flap retraction.
The flap actuator does not contain nor does it require a ball lock system.
Above comments apply to the CJ6, other models may differ though I doubt it.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Tally" <wtally@scottsboro.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:57 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flap storage
>
> I have to agree with Dennis on this one. The flaps come down very
> forcefully. (And this is true despite the presence of orfices in each
> connection to the shuttle valves mounted on the flap actuator.) Having
> some opposing pressure in the actuating cylinder helps mitigate that.
>
> Also, I would think that there might be some value in maintaining pressure
> to keep the flaps locked in the up position. There are ball locks inside
> the actuator to do that, but it seems to me that they will do their job
> better when the chuck is under pressure, forcing the balls into the
> groove. (Of course nobody is going to do any tail slides anyway, right? )
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136403#136403
>
>
>
Message 12
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Please do that. My email: crichka@hotmail.comChanockBorn to fly, Forced to
work
t: yak18T projectTo: yak-list@matronics.com
Chanock
Yes, I could send direct to you.
Joe Howse
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: yak18T project
HI Joe;Do you have some photos?????????ChanockBorn to fly, Forced to work
ak18T projectTo: yak-list@matronics.com
yak18T project for sale, any interest?
Joe for details
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
Gear up for Halo=AE 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It=92s our way of s
aying thanks for using Windows Live=99. Get it now!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
Not to make a big deal of it, but I beg to differ with Walt on the ball lock issue.
I have disassembled the flap actuator on my 52, and there is most assuredly
a ball lock assembly in there. See also pages 36 and 37 (section 5.6) in
Book 3 of the Yak 52 Aircraft Performance Data Specifications, etc. book.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136471#136471
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
I agree with you, Just service my 52 flap actuator and It have 6 locking ba
lls 5mm dia. and it is a locking unitChanockBorn to fly, Forced to work> Su
bject: Yak-List: Re: Flap storage> From: wtally@scottsboro.org> Date: Tue,
25 Sep 2007 19:26:20 -0700> To: yak-list@matronics.com> > --> Yak-List mess
age posted by: "Bill Tally" <wtally@scottsboro.org>> > Not to make a big de
al of it, but I beg to differ with Walt on the ball lock issue. I have disa
ssembled the flap actuator on my 52, and there is most assuredly a ball loc
k assembly in there. See also pages 36 and 37 (section 5.6) in Book 3 of th
e Yak 52 Aircraft Performance Data Specifications, etc. book.> > > > > Read
this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=1
==================> > >
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Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf
=E9.
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Air Compressor Wanted |
He will get back to you...
If he needs to order it and it may take a while...mine is available as a loaner.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136479#136479
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
Then I humbly stand corrected. The CJ6 manual text and cut-away drawing with
parts list show no ball lock.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Tally" <wtally@scottsboro.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:26 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flap storage
>
> Not to make a big deal of it, but I beg to differ with Walt on the ball
> lock issue. I have disassembled the flap actuator on my 52, and there is
> most assuredly a ball lock assembly in there. See also pages 36 and 37
> (section 5.6) in Book 3 of the Yak 52 Aircraft Performance Data
> Specifications, etc. book.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136471#136471
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and Flight |
Be it known, Ernie... that your gift for summing things up does not go
unnoticed or unappreciated.
>From: "Ernie" <erniel29@gmail.com>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: Re: Bernoilli, His Equation, Air Moving in Pipes and
>Flight
>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:55:46 -0700
>
>
>Magnus has no effect on the burrple destrofunkenspicthen, when bernouli
>tickles his testicular nipplefricker. Now on the other hand, if you
>diassemble the pooter evector during a combined molecular fusion
>butterjamtoastgotshitonmyshirt event, then you may ripp the goddam wings
>off of the plane.
>
>Ernie
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135747#135747
>
>
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