Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Aircraft acquisition and FAA (Ira Saligman)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:10 AM - Re: Flap storage (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 05:10 AM - Re: Aircraft acquisition and FAA (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 05:41 AM - Re: Chicago area accident? (Jim Bernier)
6. 06:01 AM - Re: Chicago area accident? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 06:23 AM - Re: Chicago area accident? (Stephen Fox)
8. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F (Genzlinger, Reade)
9. 09:04 AM - Events (Jill Gernetzke)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F ()
11. 10:12 AM - Re: Engine Monitor (Barry Hancock)
12. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Brian Lloyd)
13. 12:02 PM - Re: Engine Monitoring (Mark Scrivener)
14. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Roger Kemp)
15. 02:24 PM - Re: Engine Monitoring (Denis Ischenko)
16. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 03:21 PM - The Memphis 100 Air Race (Jeff Linebaugh)
19. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Brian Lloyd)
20. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Brian Lloyd)
21. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Roger Kemp)
22. 07:21 PM - Marooned in Wilmington, NC (ByronMFox@aol.com)
23. 08:05 PM - Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC (viperdoc)
24. 10:04 PM - Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC (KingCJ6@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aircraft acquisition and FAA |
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F |
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium" aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area? There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
> Savarese
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:34 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flap storage |
Another simple mod for the ball on the flap handle is to remove it and put 4
flats around the ball at the 0, 90, 180, 270 degree positions. This makes
the ball feel completely different than the gear handle. Easy to do on a
bench grinder and takes less than 5 minutes.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bolton" <mjbjhf@truvista.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flap storage
>
> Glad to see that I am not alone in this Club
>
> Michael
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flap storage
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Hans Oortman 1 wrote:
>>
>>> John. Ref Pappy's comment:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Especially the bold part "by looking at it" is important..I know.I
>>> found out the hard way.
>>
>> It is funny how so many people have made the same mistake of thinking
>> they are raising the flaps and instead raise the gear. You would think
>> that, since there are nowhere near each other, this failure mode would
>> be infrequent but for some reason it is not. The best insurance is to
>> ensure that you slide the gear-lock slide in place as soon as you place
>> the gear lever in the down position regardless of the reason.
>>
>> (I *KNOW* that religious use of the gear slide-lock *WILL* save your
>> airplane's belly. Please do not ask me how I know this.)
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>>
>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft acquisition and FAA |
MessageIra,
An aircraft remains under the "guidance" of the FSDO which has
jurisdiction over the aircraft's home base airport until such time as
the aircraft's Operating Limitations are updated to reflect a new home
base airport and a new Special Airworthiness Certificate is issued.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Ira Saligman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:11 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not under
the "guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Chicago area accident? |
Pappy
Sorry to say that it is true.
See attached article from the Chicago Tribune.
Jim B
>>> <cjpilot710@aol.com> 9/26/2007 8:39 PM >>>
Troops
I pass this on to the list. Anyone hear about a accident around Chicago
area??
Pappy
___________________________________________________________________________
____________
I have heard from a couple of different sources that a Yak crashed near
Chicago last month with 2 fatalities. Please ask around the Red Star
community and if you get confirmation, let me know. This is something the
RPA needs to be on top of, if its true.
Alan
-------------- Original message from cjpilot710@aol.com: --------------
In a message dated 9/25/2007 11:05:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yakpilot@bellsouth.net writes:
Alan,
Not at all. This is the first I've heard of it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Jim
Do you have any details on the recent Yk-52 crash in Illionois?
Alan
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
=====================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Chicago area accident? |
In a message dated 9/27/2007 8:45:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
JBernier@dart.org writes:
I must have missed this while out flying the bombers. To bad.
Does anyone have any verified info on what caused the engine to quit?
Pappy
Pappy
Sorry to say that it is true.
See attached article from the Chicago Tribune.
Jim B
>>> <cjpilot710@aol.com> 9/26/2007 8:39 PM >>>
Troops
I pass this on to the list. Anyone hear about a accident around Chicago
area??
Pappy
______________________________________________________________________________
_________
I have heard from a couple of different sources that a Yak crashed near
Chicago last month with 2 fatalities. Please ask around the Red Star community
and if you get confirmation, let me know. This is something the RPA needs to
be on top of, if its true.
Alan
-------------- Original message from cjpilot710@aol.com: --------------
In a message dated 9/25/2007 11:05:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yakpilot@bellsouth.net writes:
Alan,
Not at all. This is the first I've heard of it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Jim
Do you have any details on the recent Yk-52 crash in Illionois?
Alan
____________________________________
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
nics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Chicago area accident? |
Not yet.
Steve
On Sep 27, 2007, at 8:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone have any verified info on what caused the engine to quit?
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F |
Thanks, Dennis - I recall reading about the "pre-moratorium" status
aircraft on the list several years ago but since my Yak is 1996 I never
really paid any attention to it. The letter on this particular aircraft
is one page long and as you said, it seems to be a very lucky situation.
Frankly, it is a much more reasonable letter than today's letters
although the rescission of the proficiency area restriction is a great
leap forward.
So it is my understanding that a "pre-moratorium" certificated aircraft
is treated like a normal category aircraft in a change of ownership i.e.
the Airworthiness Cert. and Op. Limit Letter go with the aircraft.
Other than re-registering is there anything else one would need to do?
Reade
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
215.914.0370
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating
limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are
no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium"
aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's
were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
Message 9
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Group,
A couple of items:
The Kingman Air & Auto Show will be held October 6th and 7th. Any
Yak/CJ owner coming in to the show is welcome to come on over for
burgers, brats and dogs on Saturday for lunch. We are located across
from Straube's paint shop.
Some may recall that in June 2005 I sponsored a group of Russian WWII
lady air veterans to this country. This was hands down the most
rewarding event in my life. If any of you missed meeting these
extraordinary women, you have another chance. Galina Brok-Beltsova
(Pe-2 navigator/bombadier), Yelena Kulkova-Malutina (Pe-2 pilot) and
Anna Kirilina (Pe-2 armament mechanic) are scheduled to appear at the
Museum of Flight in Seattle on October 13th/ They will be there for
the premiere of the new book, Flying for Her Country - a book about the
WASPs and the Russian air veterans. For those of you that may not
know, there were 3 female air regiments during WWII. These women were
combat pilots, radio operators, aircraft mechanics, armament mechanics,
whatever it took. I could go on for pages. The WASPs will also be in
attendance at this event.
Jill Gernetzke
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F |
Actually there is a line in the current order that says that for any aircraft licensed
before a date in 1992, this order does not apply. There was no previous
order relating to experimental exhibition aircraft.
EB
---- "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Reade,
> Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
> proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating limitations.
> My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are no
> restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium" aircraft.
> Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's were
> written under a different FAA Order.
> Dennis
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitor |
I have done a LOT of reserach on this for customers and for my own CJs.
Here is my take:
JPI does make a 9 cyl unit, but it's graphical and user interface are
at least 2 generations behind other units available. It is also very
expensive.
Electronics International makes a nice unit. They will adapt to
whatever you want (including 9 cyl., pneumatic pressure, etc.).
http://www.buy-ei.com/
We've worked with Blue Mountain to fully develop their engine pod to
adapt to our engines, including figuring out all the sensors required
for our engines, developing a CHT probe and mounting location (under
air shower port), etc. If you are looking to combine an engine monitor
with substantial EFIS capability (they have a really slick auto pilot
now, too), BMA is now our first choice in the "best value" department.
Yes, BMA has had performance and reliability issues with earlier units,
but their G4 has corrected all of those issues and is very robust and
reliable from our experience. www.bluemountainavionics.com
The cutting edge unit is from Vertical Power. It would take me too
long to describe, but it is truly the next step in aircraft monitoring.
Check it out at www.verticalpower.com.
There are a dozen other choices out there, but we've determined the
above to provide the best combination of quality, value, capability,
and user friendliness. There are other units out there that you may
like better...
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (909) 606-4444
cell - -(949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
(NEW sites coming in October)
On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any
> experience with
> it though.
> Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd cylinder
> head
> temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
> Doc
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
On Sep 26, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any
> experience with
> it though.
> Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd
> cylinder head
> temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
Well, I think I would open the gills some more, enrichen the mixture,
and possibly reduce power to keep the hottest CHTs in the green.
And as for Dynon, well, you could monitor six of the nine cyclinders.
If you are using the stock instrumenation, right now you are only
monitoring two (one for the front seat and one for the rear seat) and
no EGT at all. So even if the Dynon is not perfect, you could monitor
more.
And if you feel like doing more of a hack, you could add a 4-cyl CHT/
EGT switch and use it to select one of the remaining four cylinders
and feed that into the sixth thermocouple channel.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
I've used the JPI for several years now on my Mooney 231. Very nice to have, esp
on a fuel injected Turbo and the fact that it has fuel flow tied in with my
GPS. Oh, and you can set an alarm on any parameter (both high and low limits)
- which helps if miss something in your scan.
That said, I'm not sure how useful it would be on my Yak 52. I can't adjust mixture
(at least in flight), so I'm not going to lean with it, I don't have fuel
injectors, so it won't tell me about a clogged injector, and I tend to fly with
the vents 100% open most of the time (to keep CHT down) - so about all it will
tell me is to lower the nose or reduce power - which I can tell from the single
gauge.
I guess it would give you indication of a stuck valve or other conditions resulting
in sub-par cylinder performance - which would be nice, but you are going
to wire 18 temp probes just for CHT/EGT on each cylinder. Seems like a lot of
work for little gain...
-Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136839#136839
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Daammmnnnneeeedddd! Did not think of jiving up the Dynon (I have a D10 in
the 50). Mixture is pretty well set. Opening the gills, pulling the power
back, leveling off or descending (diving) is about all can be done in the 50
or 52 to lower the cylinder head temps. (Along with making sure that the oil
cooler door is wide open also). My point was, we monitor the cylinder with
the master crank but it tends to be 20 to 30 degrees cooler than 9 through
3. I can take laser temp measurements as soon as I shut down and see 20-30
degree differences between 1 and 4. Those 3 cylinders on top run hotter than
the others universally.
It would be nice to see the temp from one of those cylinders during flight
but still monitor the #4 too. That is easily doable I know. Just have to
many other projects going on to worry with that right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
On Sep 26, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any
> experience with
> it though.
> Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd
> cylinder head
> temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
Well, I think I would open the gills some more, enrichen the mixture,
and possibly reduce power to keep the hottest CHTs in the green.
And as for Dynon, well, you could monitor six of the nine cyclinders.
If you are using the stock instrumenation, right now you are only
monitoring two (one for the front seat and one for the rear seat) and
no EGT at all. So even if the Dynon is not perfect, you could monitor
more.
And if you feel like doing more of a hack, you could add a 4-cyl CHT/
EGT switch and use it to select one of the remaining four cylinders
and feed that into the sixth thermocouple channel.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
I have now flown some 60 hours behind a Grand Rapids Technologies EFIS/EIS
Horizon 1 system in an 18T. Thought I'd throw my 2 cents-worth, although my
situation is different to that of most other listers' -- I use the plane
primarily as a tourer (IFR capable, albeit I am not yet) and its panel is
huge compared to that of other Yaks and CJs. The size of the panel allowed
me to put in a two-screen system and to leave all native Russian engine
gauges plus most of the Russian flight instruments as a backup. However, I
feel even one screen would be great.
First, the 9-cylinder issue. The GRT 9-cyl model is adapted from a 6-cyl one
and therefore can only display 12 temperatures. 9 are allocated to EGT's and
3 to CHTs. There is a selector that allows to switch the CHTs between
cylinders 1/2/3, 4/5/6 and 7/8/9. What is really handy is that you can
toggle between a page with usual bar charts and one with time-graphs (and
several other pages). The time graphs display two sets of lines (3 CHTs and
9 EGTs), all of different color, over the last 120 seconds (time is
selectable). So when I approach the water (I am in England) or the mountains
this is where I look before committing. I am not an expert but I've been
told that a bad plug and many other problems should promptly show on the EGT
graph.
Another "peace of mind" feature is what any engine monitor has -- alarms.
The limits for each parameter are easily programmable (including things like
max difference between EGTs and max rate of CHT cooling), and when a
parameter hits its limit a warning starts flashing on the screen (impossible
not to notice, but not so intrusive as to alert my passengers). My pilot
experience is on the rookie side, and I have to admit that I would have
probably cooked my engine by now if I did not have these alarms.
Other things I like: can test my mags in flight by switching the EIS RPM
feed between mags; can check air pressure in the air cylinder without
pressurizing the system; fuel flow feature is indispensable for a tourer
(although watching that low miles-per-liter number can be depressing,
especially at European avgas prices). And the graphics is pretty cool imho,
especially since GRT revamped the engine monitor pages. By the way, at my
request GRT added the functionality to use Russian units, so what I see on
the EIS agrees with the native gauges (and even all labels have been
converted to metric, if not into Russian:).
Now the bad news (which I suspect would kill it for many): the needles on
manifold pressure and RPM dials on the screen take some fraction of a second
longer to react than the corresponding native gauges. I find myself looking
at the native gauges rather than the EIS when changing manifold/prop,
especially at critical flight stages...
Overall though I am very pleased with the system. There are lots of other
cool and very useful features, and the flight instrumentation and nav sides
are truly amazing (it comes with terrain; HITS synthetic approaches -- GRT
even programmed in the small airfield I am based at which was not in the
standard database; wind indicator; g-meter; flight path vector; lots of
other good stuff).
Hope this helps...
Denis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Doc, Hubie Tolson put a single EGT gage in his Sukhoi-31 with a switch that allows
you to switch to any one of the 9 and see what is going on. This is "almost"
what Brian was talking about. I've talked to him and he says that the amazing
thing is that the cylinders that run hot on the ground are NOT the ones that
run hot while in the air! I do not have any more details than that... But
I found that fact rather interesting!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 16:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
Daammmnnnneeeedddd! Did not think of jiving up the Dynon (I have a D10 in the 50).
Mixture is pretty well set. Opening the gills, pulling the power back, leveling
off or descending (diving) is about all can be done in the 50 or 52 to lower
the cylinder head temps. (Along with making sure that the oil cooler door
is wide open also). My point was, we monitor the cylinder with the master crank
but it tends to be 20 to 30 degrees cooler than 9 through 3. I can take laser
temp measurements as soon as I shut down and see 20-30 degree differences between
1 and 4. Those 3 cylinders on top run hotter than the others universally.
It would be nice to see the temp from one of those cylinders during flight but
still monitor the #4 too. That is easily doable I know. Just have to many other
projects going on to worry with that right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
On Sep 26, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any
> experience with it though.
> Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd cylinder
> head temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
Well, I think I would open the gills some more, enrichen the mixture, and possibly
reduce power to keep the hottest CHTs in the green.
And as for Dynon, well, you could monitor six of the nine cyclinders.
If you are using the stock instrumenation, right now you are only monitoring two
(one for the front seat and one for the rear seat) and no EGT at all. So even
if the Dynon is not perfect, you could monitor more.
And if you feel like doing more of a hack, you could add a 4-cyl CHT/ EGT switch
and use it to select one of the remaining four cylinders and feed that into
the sixth thermocouple channel.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Just a comment.
I'd be curious what others have to say about Cylinder Head temps. I
personally am a strong believer that they should be kept "medium hot".
Meaning, a minimum of middle to above middle of green. I've found that
the Russian piston rings expand quite significantly with heat. Running
the engine .. Not hot... But "warmish" (to coin a new word) keeps the
oil cleaner, and also reduces lead deposits on the exhaust valves. I'd
be curious as to other peoples experiences. Of course, this also opens
the door to discussing the merits of MARVEL MYSTERY OIL! :-)
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Scrivener
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 15:01
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
--> <mark_scrivener@yahoo.com>
I've used the JPI for several years now on my Mooney 231. Very nice to
have, esp on a fuel injected Turbo and the fact that it has fuel flow
tied in with my GPS. Oh, and you can set an alarm on any parameter (both
high and low limits) - which helps if miss something in your scan.
That said, I'm not sure how useful it would be on my Yak 52. I can't
adjust mixture (at least in flight), so I'm not going to lean with it, I
don't have fuel injectors, so it won't tell me about a clogged injector,
and I tend to fly with the vents 100% open most of the time (to keep CHT
down) - so about all it will tell me is to lower the nose or reduce
power - which I can tell from the single gauge.
I guess it would give you indication of a stuck valve or other
conditions resulting in sub-par cylinder performance - which would be
nice, but you are going to wire 18 temp probes just for CHT/EGT on each
cylinder. Seems like a lot of work for little gain...
-Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136839#136839
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| Subject: | The Memphis 100 Air Race |
The Memphis 100 is coming! Come join us for the fun!
When: October 27th
Where: DeWitt Spain Airport (M01), Memphis, TN
What: The Memphis 100 is an Official Sport Air Racing League sanctioned
eventIt is for ALL aircraft, from Cubs to Unlimiteds, run on a 100 mile
triangular course, with staggered starts. No formation experience required!
Racers are split into categories for fair, friendly competition. Come run
hard, or enjoy the scenery and camaraderie!
Who: You! Hosted by the Memphis CAF. Breakfast by the Memphis EAA.
For more information or registration contact:
Rick Pellicciotti: rick@rocket-boys.com <mailto:rick@rocket-boys.com> 901
481-1934
Jeff Linebaugh: jeff@rocket-boys.com <mailto:jeff@rocket-boys.com> 901
606-6735
Hope to see you all there!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Daammmnnnneeeedddd! Did not think of jiving up the Dynon (I have a
> D10 in
> the 50).
I don't understand what you just wrote.
> Mixture is pretty well set.
In an M14, right. In a Huosai you do have a mixture control to fiddle
with. My comment was meant to be generic.
> Opening the gills, pulling the power
> back, leveling off or descending (diving) is about all can be done
> in the 50
> or 52 to lower the cylinder head temps. (Along with making sure
> that the oil
> cooler door is wide open also).
Right.
> My point was, we monitor the cylinder with
> the master crank but it tends to be 20 to 30 degrees cooler than 9
> through
> 3. I can take laser temp measurements as soon as I shut down and
> see 20-30
> degree differences between 1 and 4. Those 3 cylinders on top run
> hotter than
> the others universally.
Then that is where the CHT probe(s) should be.
> It would be nice to see the temp from one of those cylinders during
> flight
> but still monitor the #4 too. That is easily doable I know. Just
> have to
> many other projects going on to worry with that right now.
When all you have is one probe, the goal is to get it on the hottest
cylinder. Since the M14P does not have a mixture control, there isn't
a lot of use for an EGT.
So, yeah, I would put one CHT on the cylinder that the manufacturer
uses, and then I would try to instrument the cylinders known to be
hottest.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
On Sep 27, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Doc, Hubie Tolson put a single EGT gage in his Sukhoi-31 with a
> switch that allows you to switch to any one of the 9 and see what
> is going on. This is "almost" what Brian was talking about. I've
> talked to him and he says that the amazing thing is that the
> cylinders that run hot on the ground are NOT the ones that run hot
> while in the air! I do not have any more details than that... But
> I found that fact rather interesting!
The problem with EGT is that it tells you a LOT less than you think
it does. First, it is a relative indication. Comparing absolute EGT
numbers from two cylinders is totally meaningless. There are only two
things that are meaningful in an EGT:
1. when the EGT peaks tells you when the cylinder has reached best
stoichiometric mixture;
2. a sudden change in EGT that does not correspond to you fiddling
with some engine control tells you something has happened in your
engine (but not what).
Relative changes in EGT can let you know which cylinders are leaner
or richer. And seeing sudden changes in EGT only works if you are
monitoring them all.
OTOH, CHT tells you how long your cylinders are going to last. Run
them cool and they will live longer. I find CHT to be much more
meaningful to how I run my engine than EGT. If I had a choice of
monitoring all my CHT -or- all my EGT, I would want full CHT
monitoring. So with a monitor with 12 thermocouple inputs for a 9-cyl
radial I would have 9 CHT and an EGT for each exhaust manifold.
But that's just me.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Brian/Mark,
Copy both. It is a project for a lousy winter day when I have not got
anything else to do. Since the EGT probe is on the #4 cylinder (master
crank) I'll leave that one alone. As you said Mark, it would be nice to see
what cylinders are hottest in the air. Anyone have that trend.
I can tell you which ones are hot on the ground after a ground runup for
maintenance or after taxiing in with a misfire. The thermal laser temp gauge
does come in handy for finding you cool cylinder then it becomes easier to
chase down the reason for the misfire by looking at all the usual suspects.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Daammmnnnneeeedddd! Did not think of jiving up the Dynon (I have a
> D10 in
> the 50).
I don't understand what you just wrote.
> Mixture is pretty well set.
In an M14, right. In a Huosai you do have a mixture control to fiddle
with. My comment was meant to be generic.
> Opening the gills, pulling the power
> back, leveling off or descending (diving) is about all can be done
> in the 50
> or 52 to lower the cylinder head temps. (Along with making sure
> that the oil
> cooler door is wide open also).
Right.
> My point was, we monitor the cylinder with
> the master crank but it tends to be 20 to 30 degrees cooler than 9
> through
> 3. I can take laser temp measurements as soon as I shut down and
> see 20-30
> degree differences between 1 and 4. Those 3 cylinders on top run
> hotter than
> the others universally.
Then that is where the CHT probe(s) should be.
> It would be nice to see the temp from one of those cylinders during
> flight
> but still monitor the #4 too. That is easily doable I know. Just
> have to
> many other projects going on to worry with that right now.
When all you have is one probe, the goal is to get it on the hottest
cylinder. Since the M14P does not have a mixture control, there isn't
a lot of use for an EGT.
So, yeah, I would put one CHT on the cylinder that the manufacturer
uses, and then I would try to instrument the cylinders known to be
hottest.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 22
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| Subject: | Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron from an
elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby? ...Blitz
Message 23
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| Subject: | Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Feel your pain! You are just 3 states away! Mark Bitterlich is up at Cherry
Point but that is one of those 50's though. Shane Golden is in Aiken, S.C.
That's roughly 150 away.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron from an
elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby? ...Blitz
_____
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Blitz - check with your personal PR hack, I'm sure he/she can get you on the
local TV station to plead your case.
D
In a message dated 9/27/2007 7:23:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ByronMFox@aol.com writes:
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron from an
elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby? ...Blitz
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