Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:51 AM - FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (Drew)
2. 02:38 AM - Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:56 AM - Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC (byronmfox@aol.com)
6. 07:36 AM - Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (viperdoc)
7. 07:36 AM - Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC (viperdoc)
8. 07:49 AM - Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 (Mark Davis)
9. 07:51 AM - Sukhoi Accident Report (Scooter)
10. 10:56 AM - Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 01:00 PM - Illinois Yak-52 crash - UPDATE (John Graham)
12. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Samuel Sax)
13. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Roger Kemp)
14. 08:35 PM - Re: Re: Engine Monitoring (Sam Sax)
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| Subject: | FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went out in an RPA
Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the practice of "rewriting
OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this week from the
FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating limitations for former military
aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The FAA has announced a process to allow
for a letter of deviation[RR1] , permitting owners to conduct proficiency flights
beyond the 300 nm (piston) and 600 nm (turbine) radius of operations stipulated
in a section of FAA Order 8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the early 1990s
when a large number of former military aircraft was imported into the United
States. Since then, safety records have shown that the proficiency limitations
did little, if anything, to improve safety. Industry groups, including WOA,
felt that allowing pilots to train outside these limits would help raise the pilots
experience and proficiency levels, thus improving safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings hosted by EAA and
WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior FAA officials reviewed
FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations on future revisions. At
EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to issue the letter of deviation
and discussed the proposed timetable for its release. Other organizations represented
included the Commemorative Air Force (CAF); Classic Jet Aircraft Association
(CJAA); and Courtesy Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation (AAHF); North
American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots Association (RPA); International
Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots and owners of former military
aircraft.
We are extremely pleased with this outcome, said Rick Siegfried, EAA Warbirds
of America president. EAA Warbirds of America and our industry partners have
worked very hard on our members behalf. By meeting face-to-face in Oshkosh with
FAA officials, we were able to work through this and other issues. We have submitted
a list of recommended revisions to FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward
to even more progress in the weeks and months to come.
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review the FAA memorandum
and decide for themselves if it is in their best interest to request
the letter of deviation. For many owners and operators of warbirds aircraft,
this is an attractive option, helping them expand their training and proficiency
options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of Earl Lawrence,
Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their support, along with
the industry partners who participated in the process. Also playing key roles
were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer and the WOA Government Affairs Committee,
including Connie Bowlin, Ray Dieckman, Jack Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael
Schloss, Siegfried, and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will continue to work on our members behalf to maintain and improve our freedom of flight. For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of America programs and activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds of America membership, visit www.warbirds-eaa.org.
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental exhibition (FAR 21.191(d))
certification from today forward, need to present the September 11, 2007
FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to be exempt from the 300/600-mile proficiency
flight area limitation. The next change to FAA Order 8130.2(F) will contain
the elimination of this requirement, but in the meantime, this FAA Memorandum
is the authority to remove the proficiency flight area limitation on their
operating limitations.
All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups I, II, and III
currently operating and with the flight proficiency 300/600 mile limitations
on their operating limitations must continue to operate under the issued limitations
until such time they get their operating limitations updated from their
local FSDO.
All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can immediately
apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating limitations to eliminate the
300/600-mile flight proficiency area limitation. Once amended, they will no
longer have a proficiency flight area limitation. When submitting the request
to the FSDO to drop the proficiency area limitation, owners should:
Submit a cover letter to their local FSDORequest the operating limitations
issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated to eliminate the proficiency
flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum, subject: Deviation to Order 8130.2,
dated September 11, 2007, from Frank Paskiewicz, Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters,
AFS-800, and AIR-200 have approved that this operating limitation change
request will be processed per FAA Order 8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no
aircraft certification inspection is required for this paperwork change.
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6 http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the operating limitations,
the owners can expect to go to that office and exchange their old operating
limitations for a new set (face to face).
The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
---------------------------------
Page: 1
[RR1]Link to the PDF
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium" aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area? There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
Drew,
Until such time as a new FAA Order is issued, the existing Order 8130.2F
Change 3 remains in effect. That means OL's and Airworthiness
Certificates must be reissued when the aircraft changes FSDO's or Home
Base airports. The exception is how the OL's were written. Some were
issued with an "Operational Program Letter" (not to be confused with
Annual Program Letter) which basically eliminated the reissuance of the
OL's and AC by a simply have the owner certify that he/she has read the
OL's and will comply with them and then state the new home base airport
is -----.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Drew
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 AM
Subject: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went out
in an RPA Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the
practice of "rewriting OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of
the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this week
from the FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating limitations for
former military aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The FAA has announced
a process to allow for a letter of deviation[RR1] , permitting owners to
conduct proficiency flights beyond the 300 nm (piston) and 600 nm
(turbine) radius of operations stipulated in a section of FAA Order
8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the
early 1990s when a large number of former military aircraft was imported
into the United States. Since then, safety records have shown that the
proficiency limitations did little, if anything, to improve safety.
Industry groups, including WOA, felt that allowing pilots to train
outside these limits would help raise the pilot's experience and
proficiency levels, thus improving safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings hosted
by EAA and WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior
FAA officials reviewed FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations
on future revisions. At EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to
issue the letter of deviation and discussed the proposed timetable for
its release. Other organizations represented included the Commemorative
Air Force (CAF); Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA); and Courtesy
Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation
(AAHF); North American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots
Association (RPA); International Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots
and owners of former military aircraft.
"We are extremely pleased with this outcome," said Rick Siegfried, EAA
Warbirds of America president. "EAA Warbirds of America and our industry
partners have worked very hard on our members' behalf. By meeting
face-to-face in Oshkosh with FAA officials, we were able to work through
this and other issues. We have submitted a list of recommended revisions
to FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward to even more progress in the weeks
and months to come."
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review
the FAA memorandum and decide for themselves if it is in their best
interest to request the letter of deviation. For many owners and
operators of warbirds aircraft, this is an attractive option, helping
them expand their training and proficiency options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of
Earl Lawrence, Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their
support, along with the industry partners who participated in the
process. Also playing key roles were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer
and the WOA Government Affairs Committee, including Connie Bowlin, Ray
Dieckman, Jack Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael Schloss, Siegfried,
and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will
continue to work on our member's behalf to maintain and improve our
freedom of flight. For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of
America programs and activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds
of America membership, visit www.warbirds-eaa.org.
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
1.. Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental
exhibition (FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to
present the September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to
be exempt from the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The
next change to FAA Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this
requirement, but in the meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the authority
to remove the proficiency flight area limitation on their operating
limitations.
2.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups
I, II, and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency
300/600 mile limitations on their operating limitations must continue to
operate under the issued limitations until such time they get their
operating limitations updated from their local FSDO.
3.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can
immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating
limitations to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area
limitation. Once amended, they will no longer have a proficiency flight
area limitation. When submitting the request to the FSDO to drop the
proficiency area limitation, owners should:
1.. Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO-"Request the
operating limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated
to eliminate the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum,
subject: Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from Frank
Paskiewicz, Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and AIR-200 have
approved that this operating limitation change request will be processed
per FAA Order 8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no aircraft certification
inspection is required for this paperwork change."
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the
original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
2.. As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
3.. The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Page: 1
[RR1]Link to the PDF
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there
any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not
under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600
NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating
limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there
are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium"
aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the
OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the
exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area?
There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is
the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a
mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious
as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the
rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Message 3
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| Subject: | FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
Can someone post the letter of deviation pdf? Seems YAHOO has closed that
link!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 AM
Subject: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went out in an
RPA Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the practice of
"rewriting OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this week from
the FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating limitations for former
military aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The FAA has announced a process
to allow for a letter of deviation[RR1] <> [RR1]
<http://us.f431.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=6469_216044697_75207
76_1514_13795_0_124913_42517_1448151940&inc=&Search=&YY=13635&y5beta=yes&y5b
eta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b#_msocom_1> , permitting
owners to conduct proficiency flights beyond the 300 nm (piston) and 600 nm
(turbine) radius of operations stipulated in a section of FAA Order 8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the early
1990s when a large number of former military aircraft was imported into the
United States. Since then, safety records have shown that the proficiency
limitations did little, if anything, to improve safety. Industry groups,
including WOA, felt that allowing pilots to train outside these limits would
help raise the pilot's experience and proficiency levels, thus improving
safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings
<http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/2007%20-%2003_21%20-%20Experimental%20Exhi
bition%20Recommendations%20Advanced%20at%20EAA_WOA%20Mtg..html> hosted by
EAA and WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior FAA
officials reviewed FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations on future
revisions. At EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to issue the
letter of deviation and discussed the proposed timetable for its release.
Other organizations represented included the Commemorative Air Force (CAF);
Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA); and Courtesy Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation (AAHF);
North American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots Association
(RPA); International Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots and owners of
former military aircraft.
"We are extremely pleased with this outcome," said Rick Siegfried, EAA
Warbirds of America president. "EAA Warbirds of America and our industry
partners have worked very hard on our members' behalf. By meeting
face-to-face in Oshkosh with FAA officials, we were able to work through
this and other issues. We have submitted a list of recommended revisions to
FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward to even more progress in the weeks and
months to come."
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review the FAA
memorandum and decide for themselves if it is in their best interest to
request the letter of deviation. For many owners and operators of warbirds
aircraft, this is an attractive option, helping them expand their training
and proficiency options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of Earl
Lawrence, Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their support,
along with the industry partners who participated in the process. Also
playing key roles were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer and the WOA
Government Affairs Committee, including Connie Bowlin, Ray Dieckman, Jack
Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael Schloss, Siegfried, and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will continue to
work on our member's behalf to maintain and improve our freedom of flight.
For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of America programs and
activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds of America membership,
visit www.warbirds-eaa.org <http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/> .
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
1. Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental exhibition
(FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to present the
September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to be exempt from
the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The next change to FAA
Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this requirement, but in the
meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the authority to remove the proficiency
flight area limitation on their operating limitations.
2. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups I,
II, and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency 300/600 mile
limitations on their operating limitations must continue to operate under
the issued limitations until such time they get their operating limitations
updated from their local FSDO.
3. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can
immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating limitations
to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area limitation. Once
amended, they will no longer have a proficiency flight area limitation. When
submitting the request to the FSDO to drop the proficiency area limitation,
owners should:
A. Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO-"Request the operating
limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated to eliminate
the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum, subject:
Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from Frank Paskiewicz,
Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and AIR-200 have approved that
this operating limitation change request will be processed per FAA Order
8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no aircraft certification inspection is
required for this paperwork change."
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
B. As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
C. The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium" aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area? There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
_____
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
_____
Page: 1
[RR1] <> Link to the PDF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Can someone post the letter of deviation pdf? Seems YAHOO has closed
that link!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went out
in an RPA Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the
practice of "rewriting OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of
the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this week
from the FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating limitations for
former military aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The FAA has announced
a process to allow for a letter of deviation[RR1] [RR1], permitting
owners to conduct proficiency flights beyond the 300 nm (piston) and 600
nm (turbine) radius of operations stipulated in a section of FAA Order
8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the
early 1990s when a large number of former military aircraft was imported
into the United States. Since then, safety records have shown that the
proficiency limitations did little, if anything, to improve safety.
Industry groups, including WOA, felt that allowing pilots to train
outside these limits would help raise the pilot's experience and
proficiency levels, thus improving safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings hosted
by EAA and WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior
FAA officials reviewed FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations
on future revisions. At EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to
issue the letter of deviation and discussed the proposed timetable for
its release. Other organizations represented included the Commemorative
Air Force (CAF); Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA); and Courtesy
Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation
(AAHF); North American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots
Association (RPA); International Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots
and owners of former military aircraft.
"We are extremely pleased with this outcome," said Rick Siegfried, EAA
Warbirds of America president. "EAA Warbirds of America and our industry
partners have worked very hard on our members' behalf. By meeting
face-to-face in Oshkosh with FAA officials, we were able to work through
this and other issues. We have submitted a list of recommended revisions
to FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward to even more progress in the weeks
and months to come."
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review
the FAA memorandum and decide for themselves if it is in their best
interest to request the letter of deviation. For many owners and
operators of warbirds aircraft, this is an attractive option, helping
them expand their training and proficiency options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of
Earl Lawrence, Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their
support, along with the industry partners who participated in the
process. Also playing key roles were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer
and the WOA Government Affairs Committee, including Connie Bowlin, Ray
Dieckman, Jack Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael Schloss, Siegfried,
and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will
continue to work on our member's behalf to maintain and improve our
freedom of flight. For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of
America programs and activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds
of America membership, visit www.warbirds-eaa.org.
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
1.. Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental
exhibition (FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to
present the September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to
be exempt from the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The
next change to FAA Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this
requirement, but in the meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the authority
to remove the proficiency flight area limitation on their operating
limitations.
2.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups
I, II, and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency
300/600 mile limitations on their operating limitations must continue to
operate under the issued limitations until such time they get their
operating limitations updated from their local FSDO.
3.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can
immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating
limitations to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area
limitation. Once amended, they will no longer have a proficiency flight
area limitation. When submitting the request to the FSDO to drop the
proficiency area limitation, owners should:
1.. Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO-"Request the
operating limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated
to eliminate the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum,
subject: Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from Frank
Paskiewicz, Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and AIR-200 have
approved that this operating limitation change request will be processed
per FAA Order 8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no aircraft certification
inspection is required for this paperwork change."
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the
original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
2.. As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
3.. The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there
any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not
under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600
NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating
limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there
are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium"
aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the
OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the
exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area?
There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is
the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a
mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious
as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the
rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Page: 1
[RR1]Link to the PDF
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Thanks for your concern and particulalry Dave King's truly bright idea. Fort
unately, one of the neighboring wedding guests has a boat to take the three
non-golfers out. Saved from a day of smiling weakly about this putt or that
amazing drive of the 14th hole.=C2-=C2- ...Blitz
-----Original Message-----
From: viperdoc <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 7:59 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Feel your pain! You are just 3 states away! Mark Bitterlich is up at Cherry
Point but that is one of those 50=99s though. Shane Golden is in Aiken
, S.C.
That=99s roughly 150 away.
Doc
=C2-
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
=C2-
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron from an
elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby?=C2-=C2- ...Blitz
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
=C2-
-= - The Yak-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
-========================
-= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums!
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-========================
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http
://mail.aol.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
Thanks Dennis.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Can someone post the letter of deviation pdf? Seems YAHOO has closed that
link!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 AM
Subject: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went out in an
RPA Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the practice of
"rewriting OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this week from
the FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating limitations for former
military aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The FAA has announced a process
to allow for a letter of deviation[RR1] <> [RR1]
<http://us.f431.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=6469_216044697_75207
76_1514_13795_0_124913_42517_1448151940&inc=&Search=&YY=13635&y5beta=yes&y5b
eta=yes&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b#_msocom_1> , permitting
owners to conduct proficiency flights beyond the 300 nm (piston) and 600 nm
(turbine) radius of operations stipulated in a section of FAA Order 8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the early
1990s when a large number of former military aircraft was imported into the
United States. Since then, safety records have shown that the proficiency
limitations did little, if anything, to improve safety. Industry groups,
including WOA, felt that allowing pilots to train outside these limits would
help raise the pilot's experience and proficiency levels, thus improving
safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings
<http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/2007%20-%2003_21%20-%20Experimental%20Exhi
bition%20Recommendations%20Advanced%20at%20EAA_WOA%20Mtg..html> hosted by
EAA and WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior FAA
officials reviewed FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations on future
revisions. At EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to issue the
letter of deviation and discussed the proposed timetable for its release.
Other organizations represented included the Commemorative Air Force (CAF);
Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA); and Courtesy Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation (AAHF);
North American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots Association
(RPA); International Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots and owners of
former military aircraft.
"We are extremely pleased with this outcome," said Rick Siegfried, EAA
Warbirds of America president. "EAA Warbirds of America and our industry
partners have worked very hard on our members' behalf. By meeting
face-to-face in Oshkosh with FAA officials, we were able to work through
this and other issues. We have submitted a list of recommended revisions to
FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward to even more progress in the weeks and
months to come."
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review the FAA
memorandum and decide for themselves if it is in their best interest to
request the letter of deviation. For many owners and operators of warbirds
aircraft, this is an attractive option, helping them expand their training
and proficiency options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of Earl
Lawrence, Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their support,
along with the industry partners who participated in the process. Also
playing key roles were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer and the WOA
Government Affairs Committee, including Connie Bowlin, Ray Dieckman, Jack
Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael Schloss, Siegfried, and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will continue to
work on our member's behalf to maintain and improve our freedom of flight.
For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of America programs and
activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds of America membership,
visit www.warbirds-eaa.org <http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/> .
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
1. Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental exhibition
(FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to present the
September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to be exempt from
the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The next change to FAA
Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this requirement, but in the
meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the authority to remove the proficiency
flight area limitation on their operating limitations.
2. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups I,
II, and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency 300/600 mile
limitations on their operating limitations must continue to operate under
the issued limitations until such time they get their operating limitations
updated from their local FSDO.
3. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can
immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating limitations
to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area limitation. Once
amended, they will no longer have a proficiency flight area limitation. When
submitting the request to the FSDO to drop the proficiency area limitation,
owners should:
A. Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO-"Request the operating
limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated to eliminate
the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum, subject:
Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from Frank Paskiewicz,
Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and AIR-200 have approved that
this operating limitation change request will be processed per FAA Order
8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no aircraft certification inspection is
required for this paperwork change."
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
B. As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
C. The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the 300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993, there are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium" aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency area? There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe the rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
_____
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Page: 1
Link to the PDF
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Good deal! I hate weddings as much as I hate funerals. That only to be
exceeded by Engagement parties for kids that I have not got the foggiest
idea of who the hell they are or their parentsbut my WIFE does!
Screw that, give them $20K and send them to islands for a destination
wedding with just them and the minister! Let me keep doing what I
loveFLYING and NOT smiling with the auto bobbing head to people
that I am clueless as to who the hell they are! If they were somebody, I
would know them from the Airport or the Air Guard Fighter Squadron! Then
I would gladly drink their Scotch but prefer Jeramia Weed- the rotgut
nectar of fighter pilots!
Enjoy the day on the water!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
byronmfox@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Thanks for your concern and particulalry Dave King's truly bright idea.
Fortunately, one of the neighboring wedding guests has a boat to take
the three non-golfers out. Saved from a day of smiling weakly about this
putt or that amazing drive of the 14th hole. ...Blitz
-----Original Message-----
From: viperdoc <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 7:59 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Feel your pain! You are just 3 states away! Mark Bitterlich is up at
Cherry Point but that is one of those 50=99s though. Shane Golden
is in Aiken, S.C.
That=99s roughly 150 away.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:20 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron
from an elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby? ...Blitz
_____
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
://forums.matronics.com
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=AOLAOF00020000000970> !
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600 |
Does the change remove the need for the required annual letter to the
supervising FSDO? I've looked and can't find any mention of the letter.
Do we need to send them an annual reminder that we're still operating
the A/C in their area?
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Can someone post the letter of deviation pdf? Seems YAHOO has closed
that link!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: FAA 8130.2f and 300/600
Folks,
This letter on the removal of the 300/600 limitation in 8130 went
out in an RPA Ecom a few weeks back and reprinted here, I was told the
practice of "rewriting OL when moving FSDOs" would also be a thing of
the past,
Just throwing it out there for your consideration/discusion.
EAA and the Warbirds of America (WOA) received terrific news this
week from the FAA regarding experimental exhibition operating
limitations for former military aircraft in Groups I, II, and III. The
FAA has announced a process to allow for a letter of deviation[RR1]
[RR1], permitting owners to conduct proficiency flights beyond the 300
nm (piston) and 600 nm (turbine) radius of operations stipulated in a
section of FAA Order 8130.2F.
The geographic limitations were adopted as a safety measure in the
early 1990s when a large number of former military aircraft was imported
into the United States. Since then, safety records have shown that the
proficiency limitations did little, if anything, to improve safety.
Industry groups, including WOA, felt that allowing pilots to train
outside these limits would help raise the pilot's experience and
proficiency levels, thus improving safety.
Discussions on the issue turned a huge corner during meetings hosted
by EAA and WOA in March 2007 when industry representatives and senior
FAA officials reviewed FAA Order 8130.2F and discussed recommendations
on future revisions. At EAA AirVenture 2007 in July, the FAA agreed to
issue the letter of deviation and discussed the proposed timetable for
its release. Other organizations represented included the Commemorative
Air Force (CAF); Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA); and Courtesy
Aircraft.
Input was also received from the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation
(AAHF); North American Trainer Association (NATA); Red Star Pilots
Association (RPA); International Aerobatic Club (IAC); as well as pilots
and owners of former military aircraft.
"We are extremely pleased with this outcome," said Rick Siegfried,
EAA Warbirds of America president. "EAA Warbirds of America and our
industry partners have worked very hard on our members' behalf. By
meeting face-to-face in Oshkosh with FAA officials, we were able to work
through this and other issues. We have submitted a list of recommended
revisions to FAA Order 8130.2F and look forward to even more progress in
the weeks and months to come."
Owners of experimental exhibition aircraft are encouraged to review
the FAA memorandum and decide for themselves if it is in their best
interest to request the letter of deviation. For many owners and
operators of warbirds aircraft, this is an attractive option, helping
them expand their training and proficiency options.
Siegfried applauded the EAA Government Relations Programs staff of
Earl Lawrence, Doug Macnair, Randy Hansen, and Lynn Nelson for their
support, along with the industry partners who participated in the
process. Also playing key roles were WOA Executive Director Bill Fischer
and the WOA Government Affairs Committee, including Connie Bowlin, Ray
Dieckman, Jack Harrington, Bill Harrison, Michael Schloss, Siegfried,
and Warren Wood.
EAA, EAA Warbirds of America, and industry representatives will
continue to work on our member's behalf to maintain and improve our
freedom of flight. For more information regarding EAA Warbirds of
America programs and activities, or to join or renew your EAA Warbirds
of America membership, visit www.warbirds-eaa.org.
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
1.. Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental
exhibition (FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to
present the September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to
be exempt from the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The
next change to FAA Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this
requirement, but in the meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the authority
to remove the proficiency flight area limitation on their operating
limitations.
2.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups
I, II, and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency
300/600 mile limitations on their operating limitations must continue to
operate under the issued limitations until such time they get their
operating limitations updated from their local FSDO.
3.. All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners
can immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating
limitations to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area
limitation. Once amended, they will no longer have a proficiency flight
area limitation. When submitting the request to the FSDO to drop the
proficiency area limitation, owners should:
1.. Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO-"Request the
operating limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated
to eliminate the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum,
subject: Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from Frank
Paskiewicz, Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and AIR-200 have
approved that this operating limitation change request will be processed
per FAA Order 8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no aircraft certification
inspection is required for this paperwork change."
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6
http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf/; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the
original); and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
2.. As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
3.. The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
Time: 04:11:56 AM PST US
From: "Ira Saligman"
Subject: Yak-List: Aircraft acquisition and FAA
In the event one buys an aircraft outside of their FSDO, are there
any
requirements to ferry it to the home FSDO?
At the moment on acquisition you could have an experimental not
under the
"guidance": of any FSDO.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:12 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
Reade,
Everything that is applicable to that specific including the
300/600 NM
proficiency area will be written in the aircraft's operating
limitations.
My guess would be because the OL's were issued prior to 1993,
there are no
restrictions/no 300/600 NM proficiency area. ie: "pre-moratorium"
aircraft.
Anyone who has a pre-moratorium aircraft is very lucky because the
OL's were
written under a different FAA Order.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genzlinger, Reade"
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: FAA Memorandum - 8130.2F
>
> Dennis:
>
> Question re: 8130 and Op Lim Letter issued in 1990 -
>
> Would an aircraft (e.g. Harvard Mark IV) that was issued its
> airworthiness cert. and operation limit letter in the
exhibition/show
> category in 1990 be subject to the 300/600 mile proficiency
area? There
> is nothing in the letter relating to this at all. In fact it is
the
> most unencumbered OL that I have seen. I realize this may be a
mute
> point with the issuance of the 9-11-07 FAA memo but I am curious
as to
> what is required to re-register such an aircraft as I believe
the rules
> were different in 1990.
>
> Reade
>
> Reade Genzlinger
> Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
> mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
> 215.914.0370
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[RR1]Link to the PDF
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Sukhoi Accident Report |
Below is the NTSB report of Boriak's accident. I read in an aerobatics newsletter
that he was inverted after the accident and couldn't get out until the canopy
melted.
NTSB Identification: NYC07LA201
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, August 23, 2007 in Markham, VA
Aircraft: Sukhoi SU-31, registration: N131BW
Injuries: 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On August 23, 2007, about 1330 eastern daylight time, a Sukhoi SU-31 experimental
airplane, N131BW, was destroyed during impact with terrain and a post-crash
fire, while maneuvering near Markham, Virginia. The certificated commercial pilot
was seriously injured. Marginal visual meteorological conditions prevailed
for the flight that departed Warrenton-Fauquier Airport (W66), Warrenton, Virginia,
about 1300; destined for New Garden Airport (N57), Toughkenamon, Pennsylvania.
A visual flight rules flight plan was filed for the personal flight conducted
under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot's written statement, the airplane developed a fuel leak
during cruise flight, and there was a strong fuel odor in the cockpit. The pilot
became disoriented as to his location and altitude, while looking for the source
of the fuel leak and searching for a suitable landing area. The pilot did
not recall the actual impact.
The pilot held a commercial pilot certificate, with a rating for airplane single
engine land. He did not have an instrument rating. The pilot reported a total
flight experience of 5,400 hours; of which, 2,700 hours were in the same make
and model as the accident airplane. The pilot did not report any simulated or
actual instrument experience.
The pilot also reported that he obtained a weather briefing via computer, and that
the weather at the time of the accident, at Winchester Regional Airport (OKV),
Winchester, Virginia, included an overcast ceiling at 2,400 feet and 7 miles
visibility.
According to a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector, a nearby witness
reported that visibility was low due to clouds. She heard the airplane approach
from the south, and then heard it impacting trees before hitting the ground.
The FAA inspector further stated that the state police and medivac helicopters
could not respond due to the low ceilings, and all-terrain-vehicles were getting
lost in the fog near the accident site.
The airplane was consumed by fire, and the FAA inspector was unable to perform
a wreckage examination or identify a fuel leak.
Winchester Regional Airport was located about 15 miles northwest of the accident
site, at an elevation of 727 feet msl. The reported weather at OKV, at 1320,
was: wind calm; visibility 7 miles; overcast ceiling at 1,200 feet; temperature
72 degrees Fahrenheit; dew point 68 degrees Fahrenheit; altimeter 30.15 inches
Hg. The elevation near the accident site was approximately 700 feet msl.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136995#136995
Message 10
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| Subject: | Marooned in Wilmington, NC |
Putter up about 1/2 hour north and land at EWN. Buy you a few beers.
If you need parts.. They're here.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ByronMFox@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 22:20
Subject: Yak-List: Marooned in Wilmington, NC
Here for a wedding and surrounded by golfers who know not an aileron
from an elevator. Help! Any RPAers nearby? ...Blitz
________________________________
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Illinois Yak-52 crash - UPDATE |
There is still no news on the cause of the accident or
even if it was due to engine, mechanical or pilot.
The plane had fuel and oil and the prop appears to
have been turning at impact. The plane pancaked when
it hit and the airframe crumpled but held together.
We simply don't know any more at this time. As we
learn more, I will keep the community updated.
--- John Graham <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Graham <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Illinois Yak-5 crash
> To: Yak list <yak-list@matronics.com>
>
> Many of you have read of the Yak-52 crash in
> Illinois
> at the Lake in the Hills airport (3CK) on Labor Day.
>
> My best friend, who was also my flight instructo and
> flying buddy, was killed in the accident.
>
> Dave Burdine was a former Navy fighter pilot with
> combat experience over the skies of Iraq. He
> graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy, went to Navy
> Flight School, finished first in his class and
> selected the F14 as his plane to fly. After
> receiving
> specialized training in Soviet tactics, he was
> designated a Navy Adversary Instructor Pilot
> teaching
> military pilots how to engage and shoot down MiGs
> like
> the one he now flies in airshows! He was selected to
> go to Topgun and was also a Spin Instructor teaching
> other F14 pilots how to recover control of their jet
> in a spin. He is one of few who has intentionally
> done
> a LOMCEVAK (the tumbling end over end that little
> biplanes do) in a jet! His last Navy assignment was
> as
> Commanding Officer of the Advanced Flight Training
> Squadron in Meridian, Mississippi.
>
> David enjoyed teaching others how to fly right side
> up
> and upside down in the Northwest skies of Chicago.
> He
> was the most methodical and responsible flyer I have
> ever seen. He also flew his pride and joy MiG-17 in
> airshows across the country. You may check out his
> web site at www.Squadron17.com.
>
> I can assure all of you that Dave did whatever was
> possible to land that plane safely once the probably
> engine failure occurred...he was the best pilot I
> have
> ever seen or ever flew with. If Dave couldn't bring
> it down and live, I doubt any of us could have. The
> plane banked left so as to avoid hitting a row of
> town
> homes that were directly in front of his flight
> path.
> He trained all of us to turn left if we lost power
> on
> take-off from runway 26 and we couldn't make it back
> to the runway.
>
> He was a great pilot, wonderful friend and an even
> better person. We have lost one of the best - let
> us
> never forget him or the others that have gone
> before.
> We owe them a lot.
>
> Here is a story that ran in today's local newspaper.
>
>
http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/09/05/news/local/doc46de7c8331b38663974636.txt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
I've been using JP Instrument 9 cylinder engine monitor for over 5 year. I
have it with the fuel computer option which give me all the fuel data I need
(total, GPH real time, remaining fuel, etc). The latest version has several
more add on options. Great unit and good customer service.
You can visit them on JPinstruments.com .
Sam Sax
Miami
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any experience with
it though.
Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd cylinder head
temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
Doc
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Sam,
You are using it on your CJ?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Samuel Sax
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
I've been using JP Instrument 9 cylinder engine monitor for over 5 year. I
have it with the fuel computer option which give me all the fuel data I need
(total, GPH real time, remaining fuel, etc). The latest version has several
more add on options. Great unit and good customer service.
You can visit them on JPinstruments.com .
Sam Sax
Miami
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any experience with
it though.
Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd cylinder head
temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
Doc
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitoring |
Yes, in my CJ and M-14P and a 3 blade Whirlwind prop.
This instrument saved me some big $$ a couple years ago when I noticed an unusual
EGT rise on Cyl. #8, with light vibrations starting immediately (while in cruise).
Seeing the problem saved a lot of time in searching for the problem cylinder.
Upon landing (away from home base) I proceeded directly to examine Cyl. # 8 and
shortly thereafter found the culprit -- The front Spark plug was dead and left
no living will...:). I could only imagine how much time and $$ I would have
to spend trying to find the problem going over the entire engine 200 miles from
base.
I also use the CHT levles regularly in controlling CHT temps in climb and cruise
etc - with louvers wide open, my M-14 runs too cold so I typically close as
needed to maintain at least 160 Degrees.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>Sent: Sep 28, 2007 9:55 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
>
>
>Sam,
>You are using it on your CJ?
>Doc
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Samuel Sax
>Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:27 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
>
>
>
>I've been using JP Instrument 9 cylinder engine monitor for over 5 year. I
>have it with the fuel computer option which give me all the fuel data I need
>(total, GPH real time, remaining fuel, etc). The latest version has several
>more add on options. Great unit and good customer service.
>You can visit them on JPinstruments.com .
>
>Sam Sax
>Miami
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
>Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:11 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine Monitoring
>
>
>JP instruments makes a 9 cylinder monitor. I do not have any experience with
>it though.
>Not sure what I would know what to do it the 1st through 3rd cylinder head
>temp exceeded 200 C bumping into the Red while #4 read 180 C.
>Doc
>
>
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